On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:41:19 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:00:02 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 2:42:54 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:57:52 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >“If they’re sick enough to be admitted to the hospital, they are unvaccinated. That is the absolute common denominator amongst those patients,” he said. “I can see the regret on their face. You know, we ask them, because we want to know, are you vaccinated? And it’s very clear that a lot of them regret (not being vaccinated).”
>>> >
>>> >$$$ BILLIONS being debited from Medicare to try and save these people.
>>> >
>>> >Still think giving people a choice is a good thing? Absolutely doesn't work.
>>> >
>>> >https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html
>>> Why do we allow people to smoke, drink, watch TV, ride motorcycles,
>>> have sex, and eat cheesecake?
>>>
>>> Besides, the case and death rates are way below peaks.
>>>
>>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us
>>>
>>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/louisiana/
>>>
>>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/nevada/
>>
>>
>>I overlooked the most important reason for everyone to get vaccinated, and that is variants arise in unvaccinated people, not vaccinated people. This is such an important vulnerability Fauci is talking about mandatory vaccination of the problematic segments of the population. As long as we have these uncooperative nobodies in significant numbers, we will have some variant or another circulating. They do have the freedom to pack up and leave the country permanently, but that's the extent of it. They can't stay here.
>>CDC has come out and stated as much: unvaccinated people create the variants. I haven't found a hard study concluding this but I'm sure some are in progress.
>
>There are billions of unvaccinated people to breed variants. About 23%
>of the world population has been vaccinated so far.
>
>Cases are way down from peak in the US, so we're not an efficient
>breeding ground any more.

At some percentage vaccinated and mixed with infected it will be
optimal breeding for vaccine-resistant strains.

Places like Africa and India have to make do with random mutations
rather than having real-time natural selection.

--
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

On 7/13/2021 1:07 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 13/07/2021 01:07, Don Y wrote:
>> On 7/12/2021 3:02 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>> On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 5:30:12 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
>>>> On 7/12/2021 2:11 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>> There are gong to be people who cannot be immunized for various
>>>>> reasons.
>>>> Of course! And, no "easy" way for you to know if the immunization "took",
>>>> in your case.
>>>>
>>>> In discussions with the *male* health care providers, several have noted
>>>> that their wives had significant reactions to the second dose (regardless
>>>> of vaccine type) while none of the men had any (beyond soreness at
>>>> injection site).
>>>>
>>>> "Does that mean the vaccine did not evoke a strong enough immune
>>>> response, in my case?"
>>>
>>> I'm not aware of any significant gender difference in immune response to the
>>> vaccine. That type of thing would have come out in the Phase 3 trial.
>>
>> Yes, this is just anecdotal observations though seemingly consistent.
>>
>> My understanding is the first jab is to prime the immune system
>> and the second to generate a response. So, why the subdued/absent
>> (asymptomatic) response in men?
>
> UK has looked at it in the ZOE survey this is an early summary there are more
> extensive ones now but it summarises the male/female and previous Covid
> infection or not results for vaccine side effects.

When I got my second jab (word of mouth suggesting *it* would be the one
that would give me a notable "reaction" -- given that the first didn't),
I questioned the RN administering the shot. Her reply was, something
like "Oh, most people don't have a reaction. Only about 40% do..."

Which, I guess, is technically consistent -- 60% (100-40) *would*
be "most"! But, writing off 40% as if it was a small minority
seemed dishonest...

> There are many other resources on that site. I only experienced feeling a bit
> rough on the day after the first dose and an arm too sore to lie on for a
> couple of nights. My wife was laid up for a day or two.

If you poked your finger ONTO my injection site, I would flinch -- for the
first day (both jabs). Other than that, I didn't notice any "side effects"
(though I *have* noticed a tendency to LEVITATE, from time to time -- but
nothing too serious!)

> Neither of us experienced any appreciable reaction to second dose (AZ).

What is amusing, in all of this, is the variety of "sources" and experiences.
Most vaccinations tend to be pretty consistent (at least regionally).
E.g., I've never heard anyone mention side effects from a flu shot
(ignoring Guillain Barre). Nor anyone making a "big deal" out of having
received one!

Some time ago, I prepared a list of vaccinations I'd received in my lifetime
(to flesh out my medical history). I was amazed at how many. And, how often
(esp as an "infant")! It would be interesting to see how many "children"
receive, nowadays (e.g., HPV, meningitis, etc. weren't available when I
was a kid).

On 7/12/2021 4:31 PM, Don Y wrote:
> On 7/12/2021 2:13 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 5:03:10 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
>>>>>> Besides, the case and death rates are way below peaks.
>>>>>
>>>>> My doubly vaccinated neighbor takes no solace from that (now
>>>>> infected).
>>>> The vaccine didn't work for him?
>>> Is the sickness serious? Vaccine doesn't stop infection, but sickness.
>>
>> A breaking development is people coinfected with more than one
>> variant. They're just now testing for that.
>
> And immunity can wane.  And, variants can be "better" at evading the
> protections afforded by the vaccine.  No vaccine (man made or natural)
> is a "guarantee" against infection (or reinfection).
>
> Fall will be sad -- for many unvaccinated as well as those who
> "knew better".

 We can call it the stupid tax for conspiracy theorists.

                                                     Mikek

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 04:37:04 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

<snip>
>>There are billions of unvaccinated people to breed variants. About 23%
>>of the world population has been vaccinated so far.
>>
>>Cases are way down from peak in the US, so we're not an efficient
>>breeding ground any more.
>
>At some percentage vaccinated and mixed with infected it will be
>optimal breeding for vaccine-resistant strains.
>
>Places like Africa and India have to make do with random mutations
>rather than having real-time natural selection.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/long-term-care-outbreaks-waterloo-region-1.6095441

tiny.cc/oo8auz

Look closer to home.

RL

Fred Bloggs wrote:
> "If they're sick enough to be admitted to the hospital, they are
> unvaccinated. That is the absolute common denominator amongst those
> patients," he said. "I can see the regret on their face. You know, we
> ask them, because we want to know, are you vaccinated? And it's very
> clear that a lot of them regret (not being vaccinated)."
>
> $$$ BILLIONS being debited from Medicare to try and save these people.
>
> Still think giving people a choice is a good thing? Absolutely
> doesn't work.
>
> https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html

So then the problem is Medicare. It was already obvious it doesn't
"work" as in "function", because if it did then it wouldn't be necessary
to go to ACA, etc. This only shows that it doesn't work because it is
not compatible with freedom to make personal choices. Conservatives have
been saying, since the dawn of progressivism, that it's not compatible
with freedom. The left always responds as if they don't understand how
that can be.

--
Defund the Thought Police

On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 10:27:35 AM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > "If they're sick enough to be admitted to the hospital, they are
> > unvaccinated. That is the absolute common denominator amongst those
> > patients," he said. "I can see the regret on their face. You know, we
> > ask them, because we want to know, are you vaccinated? And it's very
> > clear that a lot of them regret (not being vaccinated)."
> >
> > $$$ BILLIONS being debited from Medicare to try and save these people.
> >
> > Still think giving people a choice is a good thing? Absolutely
> > doesn't work.
> >
> > https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html
> So then the problem is Medicare. It was already obvious it doesn't
> "work" as in "function", because if it did then it wouldn't be necessary
> to go to ACA, etc. This only shows that it doesn't work because it is
> not compatible with freedom to make personal choices. Conservatives have
> been saying, since the dawn of progressivism, that it's not compatible
> with freedom. The left always responds as if they don't understand how
> that can be.

Nah- that big COVID-19 emergency funding package authorized ALL COVID-19 medical related expenses to be charged to Medicare. The patient doesn't not need to be enrolled in Medicare. I don't know for sure, but Medicare reimbursement schedule for services performed probably determines how much they're allowed to charge, and this makes a lot of sense since it's already in place and the industry is familiar with it. Do you have a better idea?
Except for the unrealistically low reimbursement schedule, Medicare works very well. There is no limitation on care providers. People can see anyone they choose in the program, and that's nearly everyone. Not sure ACA policies allow Medicare eligible people. People can always increase their Medicare coverage with various supplementary plans offered by private industry and approved by Medicare.
Medicare was already in financial trouble, but the drop in tax revenue coupled with the COVID-19 giveaways, it's really in trouble now.
https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/faqs-on-medicare-financing-and-trust-fund-solvency/

>
>
> --
> Defund the Thought Police

On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 4:37:12 AM UTC-4, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:41:19 -0700, John Larkin
> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:00:02 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> ><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 2:42:54 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:57:52 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >“If they’re sick enough to be admitted to the hospital, they are unvaccinated. That is the absolute common denominator amongst those patients,” he said. “I can see the regret on their face. You know, we ask them, because we want to know, are you vaccinated? And it’s very clear that a lot of them regret (not being vaccinated).”
> >>> >
> >>> >$$$ BILLIONS being debited from Medicare to try and save these people.
> >>> >
> >>> >Still think giving people a choice is a good thing? Absolutely doesn't work.
> >>> >
> >>> >https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html
> >>> Why do we allow people to smoke, drink, watch TV, ride motorcycles,
> >>> have sex, and eat cheesecake?
> >>>
> >>> Besides, the case and death rates are way below peaks.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us
> >>>
> >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/louisiana/
> >>>
> >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/nevada/
> >>
> >>
> >>I overlooked the most important reason for everyone to get vaccinated, and that is variants arise in unvaccinated people, not vaccinated people. This is such an important vulnerability Fauci is talking about mandatory vaccination of the problematic segments of the population. As long as we have these uncooperative nobodies in significant numbers, we will have some variant or another circulating. They do have the freedom to pack up and leave the country permanently, but that's the extent of it. They can't stay here.
> >>CDC has come out and stated as much: unvaccinated people create the variants. I haven't found a hard study concluding this but I'm sure some are in progress.
> >
> >There are billions of unvaccinated people to breed variants. About 23%
> >of the world population has been vaccinated so far.
> >
> >Cases are way down from peak in the US, so we're not an efficient
> >breeding ground any more.
> At some percentage vaccinated and mixed with infected it will be
> optimal breeding for vaccine-resistant strains.
>
> Places like Africa and India have to make do with random mutations
> rather than having real-time natural selection.

That's not a very realistic assertion. Mutations in viral replication are random events. Every new mutation survives on its own in competition with the environment. Given the hugely lower rate of infection and replication in the US and similar countries compared to the largely unvaccinated parts of the world there is no real selective pressure that is likely to create a vaccine resistant strain.

Then as Bill will happily explain in detail, the vaccines target proteins in the highly conserved portions of the spike required for the virus to attach to a human cell. So a vaccine resistant variant is not likely at all. What is potentially more likely is for variants to continue to evolve that are more infectious overcoming the minimal barriers to transmission many western countries mount as appears to be the case with the delta variant. In spite of wearing masks (to a greater or lesser degree in various regions) and distancing and even significant vaccination rates, the delta variant seems to be reproducing faster than a 1.0 rate.

I think we can still manage the delta variant if we can get people's heads screwed on straight. It's like any team effort. You can't win a tug of war if much of your team is not pulling or worse, pulling in the wrong direction. If variants develop that are even more infectious we may find the only thing that will prevent another major outbreak is higher vaccination rates, Rob Schneider aside.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 8:18:07 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> On 7/12/2021 4:31 PM, Don Y wrote:
> > On 7/12/2021 2:13 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> >> On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 5:03:10 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> >>>>>> Besides, the case and death rates are way below peaks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My doubly vaccinated neighbor takes no solace from that (now
> >>>>> infected).
> >>>> The vaccine didn't work for him?
> >>> Is the sickness serious? Vaccine doesn't stop infection, but sickness.
> >>
> >> A breaking development is people coinfected with more than one
> >> variant. They're just now testing for that.
> >
> > And immunity can wane. And, variants can be "better" at evading the
> > protections afforded by the vaccine. No vaccine (man made or natural)
> > is a "guarantee" against infection (or reinfection).
> >
> > Fall will be sad -- for many unvaccinated as well as those who
> > "knew better".
> We can call it the stupid tax for conspiracy theorists.

The trouble is this is a tax that everyone will have to pay.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:57:52 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>“If they’re sick enough to be admitted to the hospital, they are unvaccinated. That is the absolute common denominator amongst those patients,” he said. “I can see the regret on their face. You know, we ask them, because we want to know, are you vaccinated? And it’s very clear that a lot of them regret (not being vaccinated).”
>
>$$$ BILLIONS being debited from Medicare to try and save these people.
>
>Still think giving people a choice is a good thing? Absolutely doesn't work.
>
>https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html

Sadly, the side effects of the pandemic may kill more people than the
virus itself.

https://www.who.int/news/item/12-07-2021-un-report-pandemic-year-marked-by-spike-in-world-hunger

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.

On 7/13/2021 5:17 AM, amdx wrote:
> On 7/12/2021 4:31 PM, Don Y wrote:
>> On 7/12/2021 2:13 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>> On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 5:03:10 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
>>>>>>> Besides, the case and death rates are way below peaks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My doubly vaccinated neighbor takes no solace from that (now
>>>>>> infected).
>>>>> The vaccine didn't work for him?
>>>> Is the sickness serious? Vaccine doesn't stop infection, but sickness.
>>>
>>> A breaking development is people coinfected with more than one variant.
>>> They're just now testing for that.
>>
>> And immunity can wane. And, variants can be "better" at evading the
>> protections afforded by the vaccine. No vaccine (man made or natural)
>> is a "guarantee" against infection (or reinfection).
>>
>> Fall will be sad -- for many unvaccinated as well as those who
>> "knew better".
>
> We can call it the stupid tax for conspiracy theorists.

Apparently, the "younguns" who skoffed when the "oldfolk" were dying
are now the ones with tubes down their throats.

Unfortunately, convincing folks "one at a time" via this mechanism
is a slow, sad way of getting to where we need to be! :< Wait til
we find REALLY young kids falling victim (yetanothervariant) and
Mommy and Daddy crying "MyBaby, MyBaby..."

(sigh)

On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 10:27:35 AM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > "If they're sick enough to be admitted to the hospital, they are
> > unvaccinated. That is the absolute common denominator amongst those
> > patients," he said. "I can see the regret on their face. You know, we
> > ask them, because we want to know, are you vaccinated? And it's very
> > clear that a lot of them regret (not being vaccinated)."
> >
> > $$$ BILLIONS being debited from Medicare to try and save these people.
> >
> > Still think giving people a choice is a good thing? Absolutely
> > doesn't work.
> >
> > https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html
> So then the problem is Medicare. It was already obvious it doesn't
> "work" as in "function", because if it did then it wouldn't be necessary
> to go to ACA, etc. This only shows that it doesn't work because it is
> not compatible with freedom to make personal choices. Conservatives have
> been saying, since the dawn of progressivism, that it's not compatible
> with freedom. The left always responds as if they don't understand how
> that can be.

I don't recall where you live, but I think you don't understand Medicare. You talk as if it was intended to provide healthcare for all when it doesn't. It is intended to provide healthcare for those above the working age of 65 and a few other smaller groups. So how does having the ACA mean Medicare "doesn't work"? Most people are covered by neither, rather their employer provides some portion of healthcare insurance premiums.

The rest of your remarks are the sort of unintelligible, disconnected comments I would expect from Ed Lee or one of the ultra-conservatives here.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 11:31:36 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:57:52 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >“If they’re sick enough to be admitted to the hospital, they are unvaccinated. That is the absolute common denominator amongst those patients,” he said. “I can see the regret on their face. You know, we ask them, because we want to know, are you vaccinated? And it’s very clear that a lot of them regret (not being vaccinated).”
> >
> >$$$ BILLIONS being debited from Medicare to try and save these people.
> >
> >Still think giving people a choice is a good thing? Absolutely doesn't work.
> >
> >https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html
> Sadly, the side effects of the pandemic may kill more people than the
> virus itself.
>
> https://www.who.int/news/item/12-07-2021-un-report-pandemic-year-marked-by-spike-in-world-hunger

That's not at all surprising. Wide spread disease harms people in many, many ways.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 7/13/2021 7:27 AM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> "If they're sick enough to be admitted to the hospital, they are
>> unvaccinated. That is the absolute common denominator amongst those
>> patients," he said. "I can see the regret on their face. You know, we
>> ask them, because we want to know, are you vaccinated? And it's very
>> clear that a lot of them regret (not being vaccinated)."
>>
>> $$$ BILLIONS being debited from Medicare to try and save these people.
>>
>> Still think giving people a choice is a good thing? Absolutely
>> doesn't work.
>>
>> https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html
>
> So then the problem is Medicare. It was already obvious it doesn't
> "work" as in "function", because if it did then it wouldn't be necessary
> to go to ACA, etc.

Huh? Do you KNOW anyone on Medicare? Most folks are pretty happy with it.
And, most providers begrudgingly accept the Medicare assignment -- because
a fair bit of their "business" is in that population.

It also has a lower administrative overhead than PAID insurance.

> This only shows that it doesn't work because it is
> not compatible with freedom to make personal choices.

Do you understand how Medicare works? Do you understand that it
largely leaves your right to choose your provider unimpeded?
(isn't that the "choice" that a PATIENT would be interested in?)

The other "private-public" partnership plans allow you to trade some
of your choice for other benefits. But, you are under no obligation
to make that tradeoff.

> Conservatives have
> been saying, since the dawn of progressivism, that it's not compatible
> with freedom. The left always responds as if they don't understand how
> that can be.

Apparently the *Right* has a funny idea of "freedom" -- given all of the above!
(Yet you don't see any of them swearing off Medicare for themselves! Funny,
that...)

On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 4:37:12 AM UTC-4, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:41:19 -0700, John Larkin
> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:00:02 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> ><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 2:42:54 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:57:52 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >“If they’re sick enough to be admitted to the hospital, they are unvaccinated. That is the absolute common denominator amongst those patients,” he said. “I can see the regret on their face. You know, we ask them, because we want to know, are you vaccinated? And it’s very clear that a lot of them regret (not being vaccinated).”
> >>> >
> >>> >$$$ BILLIONS being debited from Medicare to try and save these people.
> >>> >
> >>> >Still think giving people a choice is a good thing? Absolutely doesn't work.
> >>> >
> >>> >https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html
> >>> Why do we allow people to smoke, drink, watch TV, ride motorcycles,
> >>> have sex, and eat cheesecake?
> >>>
> >>> Besides, the case and death rates are way below peaks.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us
> >>>
> >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/louisiana/
> >>>
> >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/nevada/
> >>
> >>
> >>I overlooked the most important reason for everyone to get vaccinated, and that is variants arise in unvaccinated people, not vaccinated people. This is such an important vulnerability Fauci is talking about mandatory vaccination of the problematic segments of the population. As long as we have these uncooperative nobodies in significant numbers, we will have some variant or another circulating. They do have the freedom to pack up and leave the country permanently, but that's the extent of it. They can't stay here.
> >>CDC has come out and stated as much: unvaccinated people create the variants. I haven't found a hard study concluding this but I'm sure some are in progress.
> >
> >There are billions of unvaccinated people to breed variants. About 23%
> >of the world population has been vaccinated so far.
> >
> >Cases are way down from peak in the US, so we're not an efficient
> >breeding ground any more.
> At some percentage vaccinated and mixed with infected it will be
> optimal breeding for vaccine-resistant strains.
>
> Places like Africa and India have to make do with random mutations
> rather than having real-time natural selection.

Here's another BIG problem in U.S.
"The National Association of County and City Health Officials (NACCHO) told CNN in May that more than 250 public health officials had left their jobs since the pandemic started – many of them against their will, and others under pressure from people opposed to public health efforts to control the pandemic."

For the most part U.S. has no leadership, just self-serving space-takers hogging leadership positions. As usual, southern states are especially bad.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/tennessee-vaccine-manager-fired/index..html
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Spehro Pefhany

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 12:26:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 4:37:12 AM UTC-4, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:41:19 -0700, John Larkin
>> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:00:02 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> ><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 2:42:54 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:57:52 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> >>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >“If they’re sick enough to be admitted to the hospital, they are unvaccinated. That is the absolute common denominator amongst those patients,” he said. “I can see the regret on their face. You know, we ask them, because we want to know, are you vaccinated? And it’s very clear that a lot of them regret (not being vaccinated).”
>> >>> >
>> >>> >$$$ BILLIONS being debited from Medicare to try and save these people.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Still think giving people a choice is a good thing? Absolutely doesn't work.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html
>> >>> Why do we allow people to smoke, drink, watch TV, ride motorcycles,
>> >>> have sex, and eat cheesecake?
>> >>>
>> >>> Besides, the case and death rates are way below peaks.
>> >>>
>> >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us
>> >>>
>> >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/louisiana/
>> >>>
>> >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/nevada/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>I overlooked the most important reason for everyone to get vaccinated, and that is variants arise in unvaccinated people, not vaccinated people. This is such an important vulnerability Fauci is talking about mandatory vaccination of the problematic segments of the population. As long as we have these uncooperative nobodies in significant numbers, we will have some variant or another circulating. They do have the freedom to pack up and leave the country permanently, but that's the extent of it. They can't stay here.
>> >>CDC has come out and stated as much: unvaccinated people create the variants. I haven't found a hard study concluding this but I'm sure some are in progress.
>> >
>> >There are billions of unvaccinated people to breed variants. About 23%
>> >of the world population has been vaccinated so far.
>> >
>> >Cases are way down from peak in the US, so we're not an efficient
>> >breeding ground any more.
>> At some percentage vaccinated and mixed with infected it will be
>> optimal breeding for vaccine-resistant strains.
>>
>> Places like Africa and India have to make do with random mutations
>> rather than having real-time natural selection.
>
>Here's another BIG problem in U.S.
>"The National Association of County and City Health Officials (NACCHO) told CNN in May that more than 250 public health officials had left their jobs since the pandemic started – many of them against their will, and others under pressure from people opposed to public health efforts to control the pandemic."
>
>For the most part U.S. has no leadership, just self-serving space-takers hogging leadership positions. As usual, southern states are especially bad.

Yeah, New Jersey and New York and Massachusetts.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Sort by PPM deaths.

Texas is #24 on PPM deaths. Florida is #26.

On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 3:39:40 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 12:26:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 4:37:12 AM UTC-4, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:41:19 -0700, John Larkin
> >> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:00:02 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> ><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 2:42:54 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:57:52 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> >>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> >“If they’re sick enough to be admitted to the hospital, they are unvaccinated. That is the absolute common denominator amongst those patients,” he said. “I can see the regret on their face. You know, we ask them, because we want to know, are you vaccinated? And it’s very clear that a lot of them regret (not being vaccinated).”
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >$$$ BILLIONS being debited from Medicare to try and save these people.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >Still think giving people a choice is a good thing? Absolutely doesn't work.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index..html
> >> >>> Why do we allow people to smoke, drink, watch TV, ride motorcycles,
> >> >>> have sex, and eat cheesecake?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Besides, the case and death rates are way below peaks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us
> >> >>>
> >> >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/louisiana/
> >> >>>
> >> >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/nevada/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>I overlooked the most important reason for everyone to get vaccinated, and that is variants arise in unvaccinated people, not vaccinated people.. This is such an important vulnerability Fauci is talking about mandatory vaccination of the problematic segments of the population. As long as we have these uncooperative nobodies in significant numbers, we will have some variant or another circulating. They do have the freedom to pack up and leave the country permanently, but that's the extent of it. They can't stay here.
> >> >>CDC has come out and stated as much: unvaccinated people create the variants. I haven't found a hard study concluding this but I'm sure some are in progress.
> >> >
> >> >There are billions of unvaccinated people to breed variants. About 23%
> >> >of the world population has been vaccinated so far.
> >> >
> >> >Cases are way down from peak in the US, so we're not an efficient
> >> >breeding ground any more.
> >> At some percentage vaccinated and mixed with infected it will be
> >> optimal breeding for vaccine-resistant strains.
> >>
> >> Places like Africa and India have to make do with random mutations
> >> rather than having real-time natural selection.
> >
> >Here's another BIG problem in U.S.
> >"The National Association of County and City Health Officials (NACCHO) told CNN in May that more than 250 public health officials had left their jobs since the pandemic started – many of them against their will, and others under pressure from people opposed to public health efforts to control the pandemic."
> >
> >For the most part U.S. has no leadership, just self-serving space-takers hogging leadership positions. As usual, southern states are especially bad..
> Yeah, New Jersey and New York and Massachusetts.
>
> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
>
> Sort by PPM deaths.

It's the big urban centers and environment in those places. Most of NJ cases have to be acquired in NYC metro I would assume. As you get out into suburbs and countryside, it should be no worse than anyplace else. Central and eastern Massachusetts is always a disaster.

>
> Texas is #24 on PPM deaths. Florida is #26.

On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 3:39:40 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 12:26:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 4:37:12 AM UTC-4, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:41:19 -0700, John Larkin
> >> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:00:02 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> ><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 2:42:54 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:57:52 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> >>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> >“If they’re sick enough to be admitted to the hospital, they are unvaccinated. That is the absolute common denominator amongst those patients,” he said. “I can see the regret on their face. You know, we ask them, because we want to know, are you vaccinated? And it’s very clear that a lot of them regret (not being vaccinated).”
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >$$$ BILLIONS being debited from Medicare to try and save these people.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >Still think giving people a choice is a good thing? Absolutely doesn't work.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index..html
> >> >>> Why do we allow people to smoke, drink, watch TV, ride motorcycles,
> >> >>> have sex, and eat cheesecake?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Besides, the case and death rates are way below peaks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us
> >> >>>
> >> >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/louisiana/
> >> >>>
> >> >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/nevada/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>I overlooked the most important reason for everyone to get vaccinated, and that is variants arise in unvaccinated people, not vaccinated people.. This is such an important vulnerability Fauci is talking about mandatory vaccination of the problematic segments of the population. As long as we have these uncooperative nobodies in significant numbers, we will have some variant or another circulating. They do have the freedom to pack up and leave the country permanently, but that's the extent of it. They can't stay here.
> >> >>CDC has come out and stated as much: unvaccinated people create the variants. I haven't found a hard study concluding this but I'm sure some are in progress.
> >> >
> >> >There are billions of unvaccinated people to breed variants. About 23%
> >> >of the world population has been vaccinated so far.
> >> >
> >> >Cases are way down from peak in the US, so we're not an efficient
> >> >breeding ground any more.
> >> At some percentage vaccinated and mixed with infected it will be
> >> optimal breeding for vaccine-resistant strains.
> >>
> >> Places like Africa and India have to make do with random mutations
> >> rather than having real-time natural selection.
> >
> >Here's another BIG problem in U.S.
> >"The National Association of County and City Health Officials (NACCHO) told CNN in May that more than 250 public health officials had left their jobs since the pandemic started – many of them against their will, and others under pressure from people opposed to public health efforts to control the pandemic."
> >
> >For the most part U.S. has no leadership, just self-serving space-takers hogging leadership positions. As usual, southern states are especially bad..
> Yeah, New Jersey and New York and Massachusetts.
>
> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
>
> Sort by PPM deaths.
>
> Texas is #24 on PPM deaths. Florida is #26.

From day one rather than the daily or weekly figure to indicate what is happening now.

As someone has pointed out, Larkin is not illiterate. Clearly however, he reads what he wants to read when exercising that ability. Or maybe more accurately, he thinks what he feels. Rather than using logic, he feels what he wants the result to be and then finds the way to manipulate the information to prove his point.

I can't say the rise in infections the last few weeks are being driven by the less vaccinated states all by themselves. Some states with higher vaccination rates are also seeing upturns in infection rates. But there is a clear correlation. I believe it was in this ABC web page where I saw a chart of the various US states vaccination rates and the spread of the delta variant. I am blocked from viewing it now so maybe someone else can find the graph. The data was a bit scattered, especially at the low end of vaccinations, but I seem to recall the end of the graph that was high vaccination rates only showed low infection rates.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-vaccinations-finally-starting-stem-pandemics-tide/story?id=77514759

There is a clear correlation to the data. What concerns me is the data is from 5/9/2021!!! That's rather out of date at this point. I expect the correlation is much more pronounced with current data. Consider Oregon which is shown in the chart as having a 4 week growth rate of over 40% because they had just crested a wave. Now the state is at a -25% point over 4 weeks although the recent week or so is showing a small increase. In this graph Missouri is shown with a -60% 4 week change in infections while it now has more than doubled from 4 weeks ago!

The chickens are coming home to roost. I'd much rather see more people get the vaccine and stop all variants in their tracks. There's no reason to allow a new fall wave (or summer wave for that matter) to kill many thousands again. All we have to do is get our heads out of our asses and get vaccinated.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 4:29:36 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>
> It's the big urban centers and environment in those places. Most of NJ cases have to be acquired in NYC metro I would assume. As you get out into suburbs and countryside, it should be no worse than anyplace else. Central and eastern Massachusetts is always a disaster.

Why would you assume anything when you don't know anything about it??? NJ has lots of people who don't ride the NYC subway or buses or even live near the city. Right now NJ is seeing less than 300 cases per day with a population of almost 9 million. Missouri has around 1,200 per day with a population of just 6 million.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209