Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.

So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.

Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.

I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.

The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
>
> So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
>
> Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
>
> I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
>
> The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf

Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.

Lou

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> >
> > So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> >
> > Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> >
> > I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> >
> > The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs.. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
>
> Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.

The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.

Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.

I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> > >
> > > So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> > >
> > > Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> > >
> > > I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> > >
> > > The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> > https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
> >
> > Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
>
> Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
>
> I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?

Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.

Lou

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> > > >
> > > > So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> > > >
> > > > Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> > > >
> > > > I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams.. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping.. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> > > >
> > > > The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> > > https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
> > >
> > > Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> > The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
> >
> > Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
> >
> > I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
> Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
>
> Lou
Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 4:27:06 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> > > > >
> > > > > So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> > > > >
> > > > > Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> > > > https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
> > > >
> > > > Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> > > The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
> > >
> > > Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
> > >
> > > I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
> > Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
> >
> > Lou
> Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.

It isn't that Ti can't be polished, it's that Campy doesn't polish the BB axle.

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> > > > >
> > > > > So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> > > > >
> > > > > Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> > > > https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
> > > >
> > > > Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> > > The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
> > >
> > > Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
> > >
> > > I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
> > Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
> >
> > Lou
> Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.

Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.

Lou

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> > > > > https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
> > > > >
> > > > > Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating.. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> > > > The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
> > > >
> > > > Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
> > > >
> > > > I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
> > > Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
> > >
> > > Lou
> > Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
> Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
>
> Lou
Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:47:10 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > > Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> > > > > > https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> > > > > The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this..
> > > > >
> > > > > I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
> > > > Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
> > > >
> > > > Lou
> > > Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
> > Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
> >
> > Lou
> Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?

No I can’t. I am only saying that a genuine 11 speed Campy Super Record crank has a left handed locking bolt. If your is right handed there is something fishy.

Lou

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:59:45 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:47:10 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > > > Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> > > > > > > https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG..pdf
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> > > > > > The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
> > > > > Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lou
> > > > Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
> > > Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
> > >
> > > Lou
> > Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?
> No I can’t. I am only saying that a genuine 11 speed Campy Super Record crank has a left handed locking bolt. If your is right handed there is something fishy.

I have two Super Record cranksets. The latest one is very light. The other is lighter than the Record I replaced it with. Perhaps the reverse thread was a newer change. The idea that Campy wouldn't take instantaneous action on a counterfeiter after their Daytona debacle is ridiculous. They are extremely protective of their reputation.

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:17:17 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:59:45 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:47:10 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> > > > > > > > https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> > > > > > > The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
> > > > > > Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding.. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lou
> > > > > Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
> > > > Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
> > > >
> > > > Lou
> > > Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?
> > No I can’t. I am only saying that a genuine 11 speed Campy Super Record crank has a left handed locking bolt. If your is right handed there is something fishy.
> I have two Super Record cranksets. The latest one is very light. The other is lighter than the Record I replaced it with. Perhaps the reverse thread was a newer change. The idea that Campy wouldn't take instantaneous action on a counterfeiter after their Daytona debacle is ridiculous. They are extremely protective of their reputation.

You can believe what you want but every Super Record crankset; 11 speed 5 arm, 11 speed 4 arm and 12 speed 4 arm has a left hand tread titanium central screw. Since when does the Chinese respect intellectual property? They just ingnore everything. And then what? Only companies the size of Apple can start legal actions. Campagnolo is a too small company for that. They can't spend the money and the time to take legal action. Bottom line is when you have a crankset with a right hand thread central bolt it is not a Super Record crankset or a genuine Campagnolo crankset. It also can be a modified Super Record crankset.

Lou

On 11/10/2022 5:01 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:17:17 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:59:45 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:47:10 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
>>>>>>>>> https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
>>>>>>>> The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
>>>>>>> Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>> Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
>>>>> Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lou
>>>> Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?
>>> No I can’t. I am only saying that a genuine 11 speed Campy Super Record crank has a left handed locking bolt. If your is right handed there is something fishy.
>> I have two Super Record cranksets. The latest one is very light. The other is lighter than the Record I replaced it with. Perhaps the reverse thread was a newer change. The idea that Campy wouldn't take instantaneous action on a counterfeiter after their Daytona debacle is ridiculous. They are extremely protective of their reputation.
>
>
> You can believe what you want but every Super Record crankset; 11 speed 5 arm, 11 speed 4 arm and 12 speed 4 arm has a left hand tread titanium central screw. Since when does the Chinese respect intellectual property? They just ingnore everything. And then what? Only companies the size of Apple can start legal actions. Campagnolo is a too small company for that. They can't spend the money and the time to take legal action. Bottom line is when you have a crankset with a right hand thread central bolt it is not a Super Record crankset or a genuine Campagnolo crankset. It also can be a modified Super Record crankset.
>
> Lou
>
+1

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 5:37:03 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/10/2022 5:01 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:17:17 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:59:45 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:47:10 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> >>>>>>>> The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
> >>>>>>> Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>> Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
> >>>>> Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lou
> >>>> Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?
> >>> No I can’t. I am only saying that a genuine 11 speed Campy Super Record crank has a left handed locking bolt. If your is right handed there is something fishy.
> >> I have two Super Record cranksets. The latest one is very light. The other is lighter than the Record I replaced it with. Perhaps the reverse thread was a newer change. The idea that Campy wouldn't take instantaneous action on a counterfeiter after their Daytona debacle is ridiculous. They are extremely protective of their reputation.
> >
> >
> > You can believe what you want but every Super Record crankset; 11 speed 5 arm, 11 speed 4 arm and 12 speed 4 arm has a left hand tread titanium central screw. Since when does the Chinese respect intellectual property? They just ingnore everything. And then what? Only companies the size of Apple can start legal actions. Campagnolo is a too small company for that. They can't spend the money and the time to take legal action. Bottom line is when you have a crankset with a right hand thread central bolt it is not a Super Record crankset or a genuine Campagnolo crankset. It also can be a modified Super Record crankset.
> >
> > Lou
> >
> +1

Let me repeat this - the SHAFT on Ultra Torque Cranks Super Record is STEEL.. It is polished because that is what they do with the high end components. If you don't believe me simply test it with a magnet. ONLY the lock nut is titanium. What would lead you to believe that you could use something as malleable as Titanium for a Hurtz connection?

On 11/11/2022 4:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 5:37:03 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/10/2022 5:01 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:17:17 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:59:45 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:47:10 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
>>>>>>>>>> The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
>>>>>>>>> Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>> Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
>>>>>>> Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>> Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?
>>>>> No I can’t. I am only saying that a genuine 11 speed Campy Super Record crank has a left handed locking bolt. If your is right handed there is something fishy.
>>>> I have two Super Record cranksets. The latest one is very light. The other is lighter than the Record I replaced it with. Perhaps the reverse thread was a newer change. The idea that Campy wouldn't take instantaneous action on a counterfeiter after their Daytona debacle is ridiculous. They are extremely protective of their reputation.
>>>
>>>
>>> You can believe what you want but every Super Record crankset; 11 speed 5 arm, 11 speed 4 arm and 12 speed 4 arm has a left hand tread titanium central screw. Since when does the Chinese respect intellectual property? They just ingnore everything. And then what? Only companies the size of Apple can start legal actions. Campagnolo is a too small company for that. They can't spend the money and the time to take legal action. Bottom line is when you have a crankset with a right hand thread central bolt it is not a Super Record crankset or a genuine Campagnolo crankset. It also can be a modified Super Record crankset.
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>> +1
>
> Let me repeat this - the SHAFT on Ultra Torque Cranks Super Record is STEEL. It is polished because that is what they do with the high end components. If you don't believe me simply test it with a magnet. ONLY the lock nut is titanium. What would lead you to believe that you could use something as malleable as Titanium for a Hurtz connection?
>

Got it. Thanks.
My reply was based on actual Super Record cranks in my hand
and Campagnolo's specification:

https://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Components/super_record_crankset

You ought to ring up Sr Valentino Campagnolo and report that
his workers are shipping off-spec cranks. Remember Italy is
9 hours ahead of Oakland and yes Campagnolo does close for
lunch.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 11:21:49 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 5:37:03 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 11/10/2022 5:01 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:17:17 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:59:45 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:47:10 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> > >>>>>>>>> https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG..pdf
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> > >>>>>>>> The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
> > >>>>>>> Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding.. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Lou
> > >>>>>> Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
> > >>>>> Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Lou
> > >>>> Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?
> > >>> No I can’t. I am only saying that a genuine 11 speed Campy Super Record crank has a left handed locking bolt. If your is right handed there is something fishy.
> > >> I have two Super Record cranksets. The latest one is very light. The other is lighter than the Record I replaced it with. Perhaps the reverse thread was a newer change. The idea that Campy wouldn't take instantaneous action on a counterfeiter after their Daytona debacle is ridiculous. They are extremely protective of their reputation.
> > >
> > >
> > > You can believe what you want but every Super Record crankset; 11 speed 5 arm, 11 speed 4 arm and 12 speed 4 arm has a left hand tread titanium central screw. Since when does the Chinese respect intellectual property? They just ingnore everything. And then what? Only companies the size of Apple can start legal actions. Campagnolo is a too small company for that. They can't spend the money and the time to take legal action. Bottom line is when you have a crankset with a right hand thread central bolt it is not a Super Record crankset or a genuine Campagnolo crankset. It also can be a modified Super Record crankset.
> > >
> > > Lou
> > >
> > +1
> Let me repeat this - the SHAFT on Ultra Torque Cranks Super Record is STEEL. It is polished because that is what they do with the high end components. If you don't believe me simply test it with a magnet. ONLY the lock nut is titanium. What would lead you to believe that you could use something as malleable as Titanium for a Hurtz connection?

You are unbelieveable.....can't find the word. What would make me to believe that? I have a f*cking Super Record crankset on one of my bikes. You know the kind you can buy from a respectable (online) bike shop. Also had a bike with a Chorus crankset I used for reference. BTW not all stainless steel is magnetic.

Lou

On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 11:36:09 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/11/2022 4:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 5:37:03 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 11/10/2022 5:01 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:17:17 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:59:45 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:47:10 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG..pdf
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> >>>>>>>>>> The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
> >>>>>>>>> Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding.. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>>>> Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
> >>>>>>> Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>> Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?
> >>>>> No I can’t. I am only saying that a genuine 11 speed Campy Super Record crank has a left handed locking bolt. If your is right handed there is something fishy.
> >>>> I have two Super Record cranksets. The latest one is very light. The other is lighter than the Record I replaced it with. Perhaps the reverse thread was a newer change. The idea that Campy wouldn't take instantaneous action on a counterfeiter after their Daytona debacle is ridiculous. They are extremely protective of their reputation.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You can believe what you want but every Super Record crankset; 11 speed 5 arm, 11 speed 4 arm and 12 speed 4 arm has a left hand tread titanium central screw. Since when does the Chinese respect intellectual property? They just ingnore everything. And then what? Only companies the size of Apple can start legal actions. Campagnolo is a too small company for that. They can't spend the money and the time to take legal action. Bottom line is when you have a crankset with a right hand thread central bolt it is not a Super Record crankset or a genuine Campagnolo crankset. It also can be a modified Super Record crankset.
> >>>
> >>> Lou
> >>>
> >> +1
> >
> > Let me repeat this - the SHAFT on Ultra Torque Cranks Super Record is STEEL. It is polished because that is what they do with the high end components. If you don't believe me simply test it with a magnet. ONLY the lock nut is titanium. What would lead you to believe that you could use something as malleable as Titanium for a Hurtz connection?
> >
> Got it. Thanks.
> My reply was based on actual Super Record cranks in my hand
> and Campagnolo's specification:
>
> https://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Components/super_record_crankset
>
> You ought to ring up Sr Valentino Campagnolo and report that
> his workers are shipping off-spec cranks. Remember Italy is
> 9 hours ahead of Oakland and yes Campagnolo does close for
> lunch.
> --

That is a polite answer. Funny too.

Lou

On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 2:36:09 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/11/2022 4:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 5:37:03 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 11/10/2022 5:01 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:17:17 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:59:45 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:47:10 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG..pdf
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> >>>>>>>>>> The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
> >>>>>>>>> Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding.. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>>>> Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
> >>>>>>> Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>> Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?
> >>>>> No I can’t. I am only saying that a genuine 11 speed Campy Super Record crank has a left handed locking bolt. If your is right handed there is something fishy.
> >>>> I have two Super Record cranksets. The latest one is very light. The other is lighter than the Record I replaced it with. Perhaps the reverse thread was a newer change. The idea that Campy wouldn't take instantaneous action on a counterfeiter after their Daytona debacle is ridiculous. They are extremely protective of their reputation.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You can believe what you want but every Super Record crankset; 11 speed 5 arm, 11 speed 4 arm and 12 speed 4 arm has a left hand tread titanium central screw. Since when does the Chinese respect intellectual property? They just ingnore everything. And then what? Only companies the size of Apple can start legal actions. Campagnolo is a too small company for that. They can't spend the money and the time to take legal action. Bottom line is when you have a crankset with a right hand thread central bolt it is not a Super Record crankset or a genuine Campagnolo crankset. It also can be a modified Super Record crankset.
> >>>
> >>> Lou
> >>>
> >> +1
> >
> > Let me repeat this - the SHAFT on Ultra Torque Cranks Super Record is STEEL. It is polished because that is what they do with the high end components. If you don't believe me simply test it with a magnet. ONLY the lock nut is titanium. What would lead you to believe that you could use something as malleable as Titanium for a Hurtz connection?
> >
> Got it. Thanks.
> My reply was based on actual Super Record cranks in my hand
> and Campagnolo's specification:
>
> https://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Components/super_record_crankset
>
> You ought to ring up Sr Valentino Campagnolo and report that
> his workers are shipping off-spec cranks. Remember Italy is
> 9 hours ahead of Oakland and yes Campagnolo does close for
> lunch.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
I have phoned the west coast service center to find out what they have to say about this. I was changed over to a message for the service center so I imagine I won't get an answer until Monday or Tuesday.

I was speaking of my 11 speed group but the 12 would have the same problem with titanium in a hurtz connection (maybe I have the spelling of that incorrect) Hurtz connections are normally used for very large shafts that have to go into very close confines so I really don't know why Campy has used it since a hollow shaft that goes all the way through is a better and lighter solution. But perhaps pro riders were stripping the off-side arms. I really can't see that since most of the peloton his using Dura Ace or SRAM which uses that method.

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 14:21:47 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 5:37:03 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/10/2022 5:01 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> > On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:17:17 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:59:45 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:47:10 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
>> >>>>>>>> The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
>> >>>>>>> Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Lou
>> >>>>>> Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
>> >>>>> Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Lou
>> >>>> Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?
>> >>> No I can’t. I am only saying that a genuine 11 speed Campy Super Record crank has a left handed locking bolt. If your is right handed there is something fishy.
>> >> I have two Super Record cranksets. The latest one is very light. The other is lighter than the Record I replaced it with. Perhaps the reverse thread was a newer change. The idea that Campy wouldn't take instantaneous action on a counterfeiter after their Daytona debacle is ridiculous. They are extremely protective of their reputation.
>> >
>> >
>> > You can believe what you want but every Super Record crankset; 11 speed 5 arm, 11 speed 4 arm and 12 speed 4 arm has a left hand tread titanium central screw. Since when does the Chinese respect intellectual property? They just ingnore everything. And then what? Only companies the size of Apple can start legal actions. Campagnolo is a too small company for that. They can't spend the money and the time to take legal action. Bottom line is when you have a crankset with a right hand thread central bolt it is not a Super Record crankset or a genuine Campagnolo crankset. It also can be a modified Super Record crankset.
>> >
>> > Lou
>> >
>> +1
>
>Let me repeat this - the SHAFT on Ultra Torque Cranks Super Record is STEEL. It is polished because that is what they do with the high end components. If you don't believe me simply test it with a magnet. ONLY the lock nut is titanium. What would lead you to believe that you could use something as malleable as Titanium for a Hurtz connection?

https://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Components/super_record_crankset

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 2:51:40 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 11:21:49 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 5:37:03 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 11/10/2022 5:01 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:17:17 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:59:45 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > >>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:47:10 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > >>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > >>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise.. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> > > >>>>>>>>> https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> > > >>>>>>>> The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor.. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
> > > >>>>>>> Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Lou
> > > >>>>>> Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
> > > >>>>> Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Lou
> > > >>>> Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?
> > > >>> No I can’t. I am only saying that a genuine 11 speed Campy Super Record crank has a left handed locking bolt. If your is right handed there is something fishy.
> > > >> I have two Super Record cranksets. The latest one is very light. The other is lighter than the Record I replaced it with. Perhaps the reverse thread was a newer change. The idea that Campy wouldn't take instantaneous action on a counterfeiter after their Daytona debacle is ridiculous. They are extremely protective of their reputation.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You can believe what you want but every Super Record crankset; 11 speed 5 arm, 11 speed 4 arm and 12 speed 4 arm has a left hand tread titanium central screw. Since when does the Chinese respect intellectual property? They just ingnore everything. And then what? Only companies the size of Apple can start legal actions. Campagnolo is a too small company for that. They can't spend the money and the time to take legal action. Bottom line is when you have a crankset with a right hand thread central bolt it is not a Super Record crankset or a genuine Campagnolo crankset. It also can be a modified Super Record crankset.
> > > >
> > > > Lou
> > > >
> > > +1
> > Let me repeat this - the SHAFT on Ultra Torque Cranks Super Record is STEEL. It is polished because that is what they do with the high end components. If you don't believe me simply test it with a magnet. ONLY the lock nut is titanium. What would lead you to believe that you could use something as malleable as Titanium for a Hurtz connection?
> You are unbelieveable.....can't find the word. What would make me to believe that? I have a f*cking Super Record crankset on one of my bikes. You know the kind you can buy from a respectable (online) bike shop. Also had a bike with a Chorus crankset I used for reference. BTW not all stainless steel is magnetic.

Lou, I'm having trouble describing your and Andrew's comments. Precisely why are you trying to imply that my Super Record group is not a Super Record group? Because you bought yours in a shop and paid 3 times as much as I did, yours is real and my isn't?

Also I would like to know why you think that all Super Record cranks had reverse threaded lock nuts? Apparently it is your position that Campy hasn't made any design improvements since they started selling groups? By the way, the shafts do not look like stainless steel. The bearings on the same shaft have exactly the same color and shine.

I also have a problem with why they would use reverse threading on a hurtz connection. If they are properly machined and fitted, they do not move so there are no twisting forces on the lock nut. So obviously they are moving and twisting the lock nut free. This suggests that their wave washer is a piss poor method of preloading the bearings.

It's becoming plain why Dura Ace costs a great deal less new or used.

On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 2:36:09 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/11/2022 4:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 5:37:03 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 11/10/2022 5:01 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:17:17 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:59:45 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:47:10 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG..pdf
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> >>>>>>>>>> The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
> >>>>>>>>> Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding.. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>>>> Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
> >>>>>>> Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>> Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?
> >>>>> No I can’t. I am only saying that a genuine 11 speed Campy Super Record crank has a left handed locking bolt. If your is right handed there is something fishy.
> >>>> I have two Super Record cranksets. The latest one is very light. The other is lighter than the Record I replaced it with. Perhaps the reverse thread was a newer change. The idea that Campy wouldn't take instantaneous action on a counterfeiter after their Daytona debacle is ridiculous. They are extremely protective of their reputation.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You can believe what you want but every Super Record crankset; 11 speed 5 arm, 11 speed 4 arm and 12 speed 4 arm has a left hand tread titanium central screw. Since when does the Chinese respect intellectual property? They just ingnore everything. And then what? Only companies the size of Apple can start legal actions. Campagnolo is a too small company for that. They can't spend the money and the time to take legal action. Bottom line is when you have a crankset with a right hand thread central bolt it is not a Super Record crankset or a genuine Campagnolo crankset. It also can be a modified Super Record crankset.
> >>>
> >>> Lou
> >>>
> >> +1
> >
> > Let me repeat this - the SHAFT on Ultra Torque Cranks Super Record is STEEL. It is polished because that is what they do with the high end components. If you don't believe me simply test it with a magnet. ONLY the lock nut is titanium. What would lead you to believe that you could use something as malleable as Titanium for a Hurtz connection?
> >
> Got it. Thanks.
> My reply was based on actual Super Record cranks in my hand
> and Campagnolo's specification:
>
> https://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Components/super_record_crankset
>
> You ought to ring up Sr Valentino Campagnolo and report that
> his workers are shipping off-spec cranks. Remember Italy is
> 9 hours ahead of Oakland and yes Campagnolo does close for
> lunch.

Andrew, down at the bottom of that Campy advertising is an additional message that says that Campy parts are commonly counterfeited and sold even in everyplace but authorized Campy Dealers.

I find it very difficult to believe that anyone would go to such an extent to copy such carefully crafted mechanisms as the mechanical groups but perhaps they do. Electronic groups are actually very easy to counterfeit and I would expect them to focus on those since they are so much higher profit items.

So, perhaps you and Lou are correct and I might owe you and he an apology. Let's see what the service center has to say.

On 11/11/2022 4:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 2:36:09 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/11/2022 4:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 5:37:03 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2022 5:01 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:17:17 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:59:45 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:47:10 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>>> Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
>>>>>>>>> Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>> Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?
>>>>>>> No I can’t. I am only saying that a genuine 11 speed Campy Super Record crank has a left handed locking bolt. If your is right handed there is something fishy.
>>>>>> I have two Super Record cranksets. The latest one is very light. The other is lighter than the Record I replaced it with. Perhaps the reverse thread was a newer change. The idea that Campy wouldn't take instantaneous action on a counterfeiter after their Daytona debacle is ridiculous. They are extremely protective of their reputation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You can believe what you want but every Super Record crankset; 11 speed 5 arm, 11 speed 4 arm and 12 speed 4 arm has a left hand tread titanium central screw. Since when does the Chinese respect intellectual property? They just ingnore everything. And then what? Only companies the size of Apple can start legal actions. Campagnolo is a too small company for that. They can't spend the money and the time to take legal action. Bottom line is when you have a crankset with a right hand thread central bolt it is not a Super Record crankset or a genuine Campagnolo crankset. It also can be a modified Super Record crankset.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lou
>>>>>
>>>> +1
>>>
>>> Let me repeat this - the SHAFT on Ultra Torque Cranks Super Record is STEEL. It is polished because that is what they do with the high end components. If you don't believe me simply test it with a magnet. ONLY the lock nut is titanium. What would lead you to believe that you could use something as malleable as Titanium for a Hurtz connection?
>>>
>> Got it. Thanks.
>> My reply was based on actual Super Record cranks in my hand
>> and Campagnolo's specification:
>>
>> https://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Components/super_record_crankset
>>
>> You ought to ring up Sr Valentino Campagnolo and report that
>> his workers are shipping off-spec cranks. Remember Italy is
>> 9 hours ahead of Oakland and yes Campagnolo does close for
>> lunch.

> I have phoned the west coast service center to find out what they have to say about this. I was changed over to a message for the service center so I imagine I won't get an answer until Monday or Tuesday.
>
> I was speaking of my 11 speed group but the 12 would have the same problem with titanium in a hurtz connection (maybe I have the spelling of that incorrect) Hurtz connections are normally used for very large shafts that have to go into very close confines so I really don't know why Campy has used it since a hollow shaft that goes all the way through is a better and lighter solution. But perhaps pro riders were stripping the off-side arms. I really can't see that since most of the peloton his using Dura Ace or SRAM which uses that method.
>

Super Record 11 Hirth cranks were built on the same titanium
spindles. That's archived at campagnolo.com someplace .

On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 12:23:07 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 2:51:40 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 11:21:49 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 5:37:03 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 11/10/2022 5:01 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:17:17 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:59:45 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > >>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:47:10 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > >>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> > > > >>>>>>>>> https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> > > > >>>>>>>> The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
> > > > >>>>>>> Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Lou
> > > > >>>>>> Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
> > > > >>>>> Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Lou
> > > > >>>> Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?
> > > > >>> No I can’t. I am only saying that a genuine 11 speed Campy Super Record crank has a left handed locking bolt. If your is right handed there is something fishy.
> > > > >> I have two Super Record cranksets. The latest one is very light. The other is lighter than the Record I replaced it with. Perhaps the reverse thread was a newer change. The idea that Campy wouldn't take instantaneous action on a counterfeiter after their Daytona debacle is ridiculous. They are extremely protective of their reputation.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You can believe what you want but every Super Record crankset; 11 speed 5 arm, 11 speed 4 arm and 12 speed 4 arm has a left hand tread titanium central screw. Since when does the Chinese respect intellectual property? They just ingnore everything. And then what? Only companies the size of Apple can start legal actions. Campagnolo is a too small company for that. They can't spend the money and the time to take legal action. Bottom line is when you have a crankset with a right hand thread central bolt it is not a Super Record crankset or a genuine Campagnolo crankset. It also can be a modified Super Record crankset.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lou
> > > > >
> > > > +1
> > > Let me repeat this - the SHAFT on Ultra Torque Cranks Super Record is STEEL. It is polished because that is what they do with the high end components. If you don't believe me simply test it with a magnet. ONLY the lock nut is titanium. What would lead you to believe that you could use something as malleable as Titanium for a Hurtz connection?
> > You are unbelieveable.....can't find the word. What would make me to believe that? I have a f*cking Super Record crankset on one of my bikes. You know the kind you can buy from a respectable (online) bike shop. Also had a bike with a Chorus crankset I used for reference. BTW not all stainless steel is magnetic.
> Lou, I'm having trouble describing your and Andrew's comments. Precisely why are you trying to imply that my Super Record group is not a Super Record group? Because you bought yours in a shop and paid 3 times as much as I did, yours is real and my isn't?
>
> Also I would like to know why you think that all Super Record cranks had reverse threaded lock nuts? Apparently it is your position that Campy hasn't made any design improvements since they started selling groups? By the way, the shafts do not look like stainless steel. The bearings on the same shaft have exactly the same color and shine.
>
> I also have a problem with why they would use reverse threading on a hurtz connection. If they are properly machined and fitted, they do not move so there are no twisting forces on the lock nut. So obviously they are moving and twisting the lock nut free. This suggests that their wave washer is a piss poor method of preloading the bearings.
>
> It's becoming plain why Dura Ace costs a great deal less new or used.

On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 12:41:55 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/11/2022 4:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 2:36:09 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 11/11/2022 4:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 5:37:03 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 11/10/2022 5:01 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:17:17 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:59:45 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:47:10 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:27:06 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:56:01 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:23:45 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 7:03:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Although I have been told on a number of occasions that Super Record crank lock screws turn counterclockwise I have two Super Record Cranks 5 years different in year and neither of them turn counter clockwise.. And it is easy to tell the Super Record because the shafts are polished to a high shine whereas Record and below are simply smooth.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So this isn't a case of someone putting Super Record decals on a Record crankset.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presently the bike is missing a Super Record rear derailleur, cables and bar tape and weighs 17.8 lbs. The lightest bike I ever had was a Look KG 585 that complete weighed in at 16 lbs even. But it didn't ride to my expectations and I couldn't tell any difference in speed on a hilly ride with 19 lb bikes. Or even 20.5 lb bikes. So I suspect that the Tommasini is going to be the best of all possible worlds. A Waterford Racing would be lighter but not by much and while they are screaming about super light bikes they are all small frames. There was a full lb of difference in the weight between a Trek Emonda 54 and my 60 so it isn't negligible. But in truth my Trek Alpha 1.5 is an aluminum version of the Madone and it is only 1/2 lb heavier and rides better.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also am going to replace the Super Record short derailleur arm with a Record medium length arm which should add 5 grams. It seems pretty humorous that although I'm not concerned with weight, that I am counting grams. This isn't because of the weight but purely as a matter of record keeping. Tomassini Fire and Fire + are available new or from Ebay so others riding steel might like to look into it. You can also get a Titanium version but I don't know the weight of those since the Columbus Spirit tube set on the Fire is so light. Titanium is usually straight tube sets which are not particularly light.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Fire is Heli arced together so there isn't the added weight of lugs. Some people don't like this method of joining.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_300_Technical%20manual%20-%20ultra%20torque%20crankset%2011s%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev04_09_22_ENG.pdf
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look at page 5. Mine are according to what this manual is stating. Did you buy a Chinese knock off….again? Axle of the Super Record is titanium, not shiny.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The previous owner bought the group from a Campy distributor.. The rear derailleur is presently in the Campagnolo service center and they haven't called it a counterfeit. As I said before I have two Super Record cranksets and both have titanium lock screws and probably titanium shafts because they are very light, and neither has a reverse threaded lock nut.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Do you have a Super Record Group and is it reverse threaded? Considering that I have had 10 11 speed groups all with forward threading and the only problem I had was the right side cup loosening which still did not cause the lock nut to loosen, I don't understand why they would change this.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I am wondering if the manual was written and then they changed their minds?
> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes I have a Super Record Group on one of my bikes and the bolt has left hand thread. I had Record 10 speed and Chorus 11 speed cranks on other bikes they all had right hand thread. Super Record is the only exception. All according to the manual. Changed there minds? You gotta be kidding. It is just another mystery on one of your bikepart.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>>>>>> Lou, why don't you invent other counterfeit Campy parts that the Campy service center can't recognize? You know, like titanium being incapable of being polished like the Lemond titanium frame I have.
> >>>>>>>>> Of course Ti can be polished, but the axles of the Super Record cranks are not. Why should they polish them? They are not in sight or something. I have bought a complete Super Record group from a shop, not second hand from an unknown online seller. I still own 3 titanium bikes and designed some Titanium parts at work so I don’t think you can teach me anything about titanium.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>>>> Can you show me any references to these counterfeit Campy parts?
> >>>>>>> No I can’t. I am only saying that a genuine 11 speed Campy Super Record crank has a left handed locking bolt. If your is right handed there is something fishy.
> >>>>>> I have two Super Record cranksets. The latest one is very light. The other is lighter than the Record I replaced it with. Perhaps the reverse thread was a newer change. The idea that Campy wouldn't take instantaneous action on a counterfeiter after their Daytona debacle is ridiculous. They are extremely protective of their reputation.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You can believe what you want but every Super Record crankset; 11 speed 5 arm, 11 speed 4 arm and 12 speed 4 arm has a left hand tread titanium central screw. Since when does the Chinese respect intellectual property? They just ingnore everything. And then what? Only companies the size of Apple can start legal actions. Campagnolo is a too small company for that. They can't spend the money and the time to take legal action. Bottom line is when you have a crankset with a right hand thread central bolt it is not a Super Record crankset or a genuine Campagnolo crankset. It also can be a modified Super Record crankset.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lou
> >>>>>
> >>>> +1
> >>>
> >>> Let me repeat this - the SHAFT on Ultra Torque Cranks Super Record is STEEL. It is polished because that is what they do with the high end components. If you don't believe me simply test it with a magnet. ONLY the lock nut is titanium. What would lead you to believe that you could use something as malleable as Titanium for a Hurtz connection?
> >>>
> >> Got it. Thanks.
> >> My reply was based on actual Super Record cranks in my hand
> >> and Campagnolo's specification:
> >>
> >> https://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Components/super_record_crankset
> >>
> >> You ought to ring up Sr Valentino Campagnolo and report that
> >> his workers are shipping off-spec cranks. Remember Italy is
> >> 9 hours ahead of Oakland and yes Campagnolo does close for
> >> lunch.
> > I have phoned the west coast service center to find out what they have to say about this. I was changed over to a message for the service center so I imagine I won't get an answer until Monday or Tuesday.
> >
> > I was speaking of my 11 speed group but the 12 would have the same problem with titanium in a hurtz connection (maybe I have the spelling of that incorrect) Hurtz connections are normally used for very large shafts that have to go into very close confines so I really don't know why Campy has used it since a hollow shaft that goes all the way through is a better and lighter solution. But perhaps pro riders were stripping the off-side arms. I really can't see that since most of the peloton his using Dura Ace or SRAM which uses that method.
> >
> Super Record 11 Hirth cranks were built on the same titanium
> spindles. That's archived at campagnolo.com someplace .
> --
> Andrew Muzi
>
Every technical document of every Super Record crank produced on the official Campagnolo website mention a Ti spindle and list a warning that the central bolt has left hand thread.