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tech / sci.physics.relativity / Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of theoretical physics?

SubjectAuthor
* If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of theoretical physics?cal piss
+- Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of theoretical physics?mitchr...@gmail.com
`* Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all ofSylvia Else
 `* Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all ofBranimir Maksimovic
  `* Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all ofcarl eto
   `* Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all ofTom Capizzi
    `- Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all ofDono.

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If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of theoretical physics?

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Subject: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of theoretical physics?
From: calpiss...@gmail.com (cal piss)
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 by: cal piss - Tue, 5 Oct 2021 20:46 UTC

dfdfdfdfdfd

Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of theoretical physics?

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Subject: Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of theoretical physics?
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
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 by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Tue, 5 Oct 2021 22:51 UTC

Stationary ether exists for light and the atom's own motion.

Mitchell Raemsch

Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of theoretical physics?

<is45qqF1kbuU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: syl...@email.invalid (Sylvia Else)
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Subject: Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of
theoretical physics?
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 by: Sylvia Else - Tue, 5 Oct 2021 23:35 UTC

Why would you even think that?

Sylvia.

Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of theoretical physics?

<bS57J.23625$4X4.16235@fx27.iad>

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From: branimir...@icloud.com (Branimir Maksimovic)
Subject: Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of
theoretical physics?
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 by: Branimir Maksimovic - Wed, 6 Oct 2021 00:12 UTC

On 2021-10-05, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
> Why would you even think that?
>
> Sylvia.
Ether, like aether?

--

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Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of theoretical physics?

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Subject: Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of
theoretical physics?
From: carleto4...@gmail.com (carl eto)
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 by: carl eto - Thu, 7 Oct 2021 16:11 UTC

All of theoretical physics use the gauge that is based on Maxwell theory that uses the ether, composed of matter.

Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of theoretical physics?

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Subject: Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of
theoretical physics?
From: tgcapi...@gmail.com (Tom Capizzi)
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 by: Tom Capizzi - Sun, 17 Oct 2021 02:06 UTC

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 12:11:13 PM UTC-4, carl eto wrote:
> All of theoretical physics use the gauge that is based on Maxwell theory that uses the ether, composed of matter.
Subsequently, Einstein demonstrated that electromagnetic waves do not need any aether to propagate. It is a mistake to think that this means he disproved the aether. However, the properties we assign to a substance we can't measure or detect are hardly reliable. In a companion thread, I am illustrating a logical, common-sense approach to special relativity using Euclidean geometry, the kind where intuition has a place. There is a price, however. The existing evidence can be interpreted to mean that there are more than 4 dimensions. Each real coordinate should actually be a complex scalar. It isn't an either/or choice. It can be both. E8 geometries have been explored for quite some time, so the possibility of 8 physical dimensions is not new.. However, unlike the usual interpretation of a rotation as being around the unit, this is a toroidal rotation around the circle normal to the unit. In such a unit, the zero phase is a degenerate vector. Rotation opens the cone for which the vector is the axis of symmetry. When identified as part of a hyperbolic rotation, there are restrictions on the range of rotation. The tilt angle of the wall of the cone is a function of the "fundamental ratio" of Bondi's k-calculus. His fundamental ratio turns out to be one of a pair of reciprocal eigenvalues of the Lorentz Transform matrix. In turn, the ln(k) is defined as the rapidity, or hyperbolic rotation angle, w. As it happens, rapidity is even more fundamental than k. Euclidean geometry identifies w with an area bounded by the axis of symmetry of a diagonal unit hyperbola, an arbitrary radius vector from the origin that intersects the curve somewhere, and a section of the curve. Through simple geometric algebra, this 3-sided figure transforms into a 4-sided shape with identical area. The 4-gon has 3 straight edges that are perpendicular (again, Euclidean). The 4th edge is the same piece of the unit hyperbola. But this figure also has a definition. It is the definite integral of the unit hyperbola from the vertex to some arbitrary point. But it is the same area that defined the unit hyperbola in the first place. If we define the unit hyperbola by xy=1, then except for x=0, y=1/x. The integral of dx/x is ln(x). The definite integral is ln(Σ)-ln(Δ), where Σ and Δ are the upper and lower limits of integration. In the case where one limit is the vertex, (1,1), the ln(1)=0, so it has no effect on the result, ln(x). This is still the same area as the rapidity, w, so w = ln(x) and e^w = x, and x = k, the fundamental ratio, again. The reason rapidity is more fundamental is that the composition of two rapidities is by linear addition. And the addition is linear because all rapidities are the definite integral of the hyperbolic function, and the additive property of the limits of any definite integral require that if a point is between the limits of a definite integral, then the sum of the area from one endpoint to the middle plus the area of a second integral from the middle to the other limit is identical to the whole integral from endpoint to endpoint. In short, the area determined by a definite integral is incompressible.
Since e^w = x and xy=1, y = 1/e^x. The arbitrary point on the unit diagonal hyperbola has coordinates of the form (1/k,k). But this actually represents every point on the curve. Now, suppose we want to move from this point on the curve to another, (1/k',k'). For every possible value of k', there is a value of w such that (1/k)(1/e^w) = (1/k'). Then, ke^w = k'. The shift from k to k' is the result of a Lorentz boost of rapidity, w. In this geometry, the Lorentz matrix is diagonal:

│1/e^w 0││1/k│ │1/k'│
│ 0 e^w││ k │ = │ k' │

This demonstrates that every point on the diagonal unit hyperbola has the coordinates of a Lorentz squeeze mapping. The change from squeeze mapping to Lorentz Transform matrix is a simple linear transform. It turns out that this transform maps the diagonal unit hyperbola to the horizontal unit hyperbola. Similarly, every point on this hyperbola has coordinates which are the elements of the Lorentz matrix. The horizontal hyperbola is defined x²-y²=1, and the point is (cosh(w),sinh(w)). cosh²(w)-sinh²(w) = γ²-β²γ² = 1:

│γ -βγ││ct│ │ct'│
│-βγ γ││ r │ = │ r' │

The point is that all of the structure of special relativity can be derived from Euclidean geometry, with no aether in sight. Since all of theoretical physics was developed without any reference to the aether, its passing would go unnoticed.

All that being said, the Euclidean geometry that covers relativity replaces the false properties of length contraction and time dilation with simple rigid rotations into higher order dimensions. The reason this is significant is that the imaginary components it implies are perpendicular to the regular 4 dimensions, and cannot contribute to their magnitude. By the same token, objects rotated into one of these dimensions become invisible and unmeasurable. Because if the imaginary dimensions are perpendicular to real units, there is no experiment which can measure them. Not even MMX. All of the nonsense about length contraction is because Einstein mistook a displacement for a distance, because they were the same thing in the domain of Newtonian physics. A displacement is the interval between two endpoints while a distance is the integral along the path. Physics even nods to this distinction when it makes its improper definition of Proper velocity. They use the time of the clock that was carried on the path. They recognize that it is different for other inertial frames. So when we measure the displacement of either time or space, and call it a distance, we are forced to accept a fairy tale about length contraction or time dilation. The culprit is the defective measurement process. WYSIWYG is also only valid for Newtonian velocities. Euclidean geometry replaces the old paradigm with the dot product. A hyperbolic rotation is accompanied by a phase rotation, so that two frames which are 4D parallel are no parallel in higher dimensions. If we rotate a copy of a reference plane on the eigenvector axis, it lifts the other one off the reference plane. If we take the dot product of a unit vector with its rotated self, the result is the cosine of the angle between them (straight Euclidean geometry). But if we define this tilt angle by relative velocity, v/c = sin(tilt), and the Lorentz factor for this velocity is sec(tilt) = 1/cos(tilt). The contracted and dilated projections are images of invariant units. We measure 100% of what the geometry allows, but we are still looking for the rest, while relativity pretends it doesn't exist.

In sum, none of physics would be affected if the aether did not exist. However, it seems likely that, except for errors due to lack of data, the extra dimensions required to explain relativity logically are exactly what were mistaken for the aether in the first place. We have clear evidence that the imaginary dimensions carry momentum. Once upon a time, physics spun another fairy tale that this was relativistic mass. Point is, if they carry their own momentum, they carry their own energy. It is a fact that both electric and magnetic fields are Lorentz transformable. It is also a fact that they transfer energy between them by way of the Poynting vector. Since we can configure E-fields and B-fields any way we want with conductors, insulators, charges and currents, it may be possible to collect large amounts of imaginary phase energy and pump it into our subspace. I admit that is speculation. But in 8 dimensions, it could be possible. What relativity says is impossible is a lie, tied to a 4 dimensional reality. So, although the mathematical aether is independent of real physics, the incorporation of more dimensions at relativistic speeds allows a wider variety of solutions to many standard problems. I would say proof of the existence of the aether might not invalidate all of physics, but it certainly could shake it up.

Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of theoretical physics?

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Subject: Re: If the ether does not exist does that invalidate all of
theoretical physics?
From: eggy2001...@gmail.com (Dono.)
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 by: Dono. - Sun, 17 Oct 2021 02:13 UTC

On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 7:06:16 PM UTC-7, tgca...@gmail.com cranked himself up:
>
> All that being said, the Euclidean geometry that covers relativity replaces the false properties of length contraction and time dilation with simple rigid rotations into higher order dimensions.

Crackpot

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