Me: As you can see in the 3D model this is the only position in which
these parts fit. If you consider a different part here with a different
anchor shape you may have greater ease of use and better fit-up. In
addition we will have greater flexibility in our final positions so that
a greater range of other components will fit up and look good.

Them: Okay do whatever you need to do, but move those pieces in
opposite directions (so they coincide in space and time), and make it
fit multiple different parts so I can swap on the fly and it needs to
look great.

Me: If you do it that way your components will interfere with each
other, and if you force it you will have spring back in the wrong
position for some components. May I suggest an alternative component
that will not adversely impact appearance or performance in anyway, and
will allow for a better over all quality of casting and ease of use.

Them: Well, this component works just fine in other molds. We are
using this one.

Me: Okay, but I need you to acknowledge that you may have the issues I
talked about along with flashing,and less than aesthetically appealing
component location, and spring back in the final castings and that I
advised you of these possibilities. I need you to say you are okay with
that.

Then: Here is a picture of somebody else's product showing what I want.

Me: If you look at your picture it has ever single issue I brought up.

Them: Well IF you can make it perfect I want you to make it with every
criteria I gave you...

Me: FRACK!!!

God has granted me a fair number of abilities. One of those is the
capacity to learn new things which has served me well. For this I am
very thankful. The capacity to violate the commonly accepted working
laws of physics is not among those abilities.

--
Bob La Londe
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
real machinist

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On 3/8/2023 12:42 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> Me:  As you can see in the 3D model this is the only position in which
> these parts fit.  If you consider a different part here with a different
> anchor shape you may have greater ease of use and better fit-up. In
> addition we will have greater flexibility in our final positions so that
> a greater range of other components will fit up and look good.
>
> Them:  Okay do whatever you need to do, but move those pieces in
> opposite directions (so they coincide in space and time), and make it
> fit multiple different parts so I can swap on the fly and it needs to
> look great.
>
> Me:  If you do it that way your components will interfere with each
> other, and if you force it you will have spring back in the wrong
> position for some components.  May I suggest an alternative component
> that will not adversely impact appearance or performance in anyway, and
> will allow for a better over all quality of casting and ease of use.
>
> Them:  Well, this component works just fine in other molds.  We are
> using this one.
>
> Me:  Okay, but I need you to acknowledge that you may have the issues I
> talked about along with flashing,and less than aesthetically appealing
> component location, and spring back in the final castings and that I
> advised you of these possibilities.  I need you to say you are okay with
> that.
>
> Then:  Here is a picture of somebody else's product showing what I want.
>
> Me:  If you look at your picture it has ever single issue I brought up.
>
> Them:  Well IF you can make it perfect I want you to make it with every
> criteria I gave you...
>
> Me:  FRACK!!!
>
> God has granted me a fair number of abilities.  One of those is the
> capacity to learn new things which has served me well.  For this I am
> very thankful.  The capacity to violate the commonly accepted working
> laws of physics is not among those abilities.
>
>

I once had an architect (female ...) that just couldn't understand
that I couldn't hang a panel on thin air ... This was part of a display
column/register station in the center of a sales kiosk in a major
Memphis mall .
--
Snag
"You can lead a dummy to facts
but you can't make him think."

On 3/8/2023 3:00 PM, Snag wrote:
> On 3/8/2023 12:42 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> Me:  As you can see in the 3D model this is the only position in which
>> these parts fit.  If you consider a different part here with a
>> different anchor shape you may have greater ease of use and better
>> fit-up. In addition we will have greater flexibility in our final
>> positions so that a greater range of other components will fit up and
>> look good.
>>
>> Them:  Okay do whatever you need to do, but move those pieces in
>> opposite directions (so they coincide in space and time), and make it
>> fit multiple different parts so I can swap on the fly and it needs to
>> look great.
>>
>> Me:  If you do it that way your components will interfere with each
>> other, and if you force it you will have spring back in the wrong
>> position for some components.  May I suggest an alternative component
>> that will not adversely impact appearance or performance in anyway,
>> and will allow for a better over all quality of casting and ease of use.
>>
>> Them:  Well, this component works just fine in other molds.  We are
>> using this one.
>>
>> Me:  Okay, but I need you to acknowledge that you may have the issues
>> I talked about along with flashing,and less than aesthetically
>> appealing component location, and spring back in the final castings
>> and that I advised you of these possibilities.  I need you to say you
>> are okay with that.
>>
>> Then:  Here is a picture of somebody else's product showing what I want.
>>
>> Me:  If you look at your picture it has ever single issue I brought up.
>>
>> Them:  Well IF you can make it perfect I want you to make it with
>> every criteria I gave you...
>>
>> Me:  FRACK!!!
>>
>> God has granted me a fair number of abilities.  One of those is the
>> capacity to learn new things which has served me well.  For this I am
>> very thankful.  The capacity to violate the commonly accepted working
>> laws of physics is not among those abilities.
>>
>>
>
>   I once had an architect (female ...) that just couldn't understand
> that I couldn't hang a panel on thin air ... This was part of a display
> column/register station in the center of a sales kiosk in a major
> Memphis mall .

This was after he said, "can't we just rotate it so the hook/anchor is
off to one side?"

This was the simpler demo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK9K24yrxAc

I'm about ready to refund his money and write off the time (quite a bit)
spent explaining the basic conundrum that two physical parts can't
occupy the same space at the same time.

This is not a home hack guy just making a few jigs in his garage. This
is somebody with a real tackle making business who has tried to impress
me that he is doing work for guys in Major League Fishing, done a bit of
name dropping, etc, etc, etc.

I even suggested an alternative part that doesn't have the glaringly
obvious (I guess not so obvious) problem.

I am thankful he only went for one mold instead of the multiples he
tried to use to negotiate, but I am even more thankful it says in every
email that quotes are only good for ten days.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On 3/8/2023 3:00 PM, Snag wrote:
> On 3/8/2023 12:42 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> Me:  As you can see in the 3D model this is the only position in which
>> these parts fit.  If you consider a different part here with a
>> different anchor shape you may have greater ease of use and better
>> fit-up. In addition we will have greater flexibility in our final
>> positions so that a greater range of other components will fit up and
>> look good.
>>
>> Them:  Okay do whatever you need to do, but move those pieces in
>> opposite directions (so they coincide in space and time), and make it
>> fit multiple different parts so I can swap on the fly and it needs to
>> look great.
>>
>> Me:  If you do it that way your components will interfere with each
>> other, and if you force it you will have spring back in the wrong
>> position for some components.  May I suggest an alternative component
>> that will not adversely impact appearance or performance in anyway,
>> and will allow for a better over all quality of casting and ease of use.
>>
>> Them:  Well, this component works just fine in other molds.  We are
>> using this one.
>>
>> Me:  Okay, but I need you to acknowledge that you may have the issues
>> I talked about along with flashing,and less than aesthetically
>> appealing component location, and spring back in the final castings
>> and that I advised you of these possibilities.  I need you to say you
>> are okay with that.
>>
>> Then:  Here is a picture of somebody else's product showing what I want.
>>
>> Me:  If you look at your picture it has ever single issue I brought up.
>>
>> Them:  Well IF you can make it perfect I want you to make it with
>> every criteria I gave you...
>>
>> Me:  FRACK!!!
>>
>> God has granted me a fair number of abilities.  One of those is the
>> capacity to learn new things which has served me well.  For this I am
>> very thankful.  The capacity to violate the commonly accepted working
>> laws of physics is not among those abilities.
>>
>>
>
>   I once had an architect (female ...) that just couldn't understand
> that I couldn't hang a panel on thin air ... This was part of a display
> column/register station in the center of a sales kiosk in a major
> Memphis mall .

I can very well see somebody saying you had to hang a panel in mid-air
and believe it.

Maybe you could have pulled the hidden/broken coat rack trick. It looks
suspended in mid air as long as you have leave your coat hanging on the
hook. Just leave your coat hanging on the panel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW2aHDOpC8M

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On 3/8/2023 5:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 3/8/2023 3:00 PM, Snag wrote:
>> On 3/8/2023 12:42 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>> Me:  As you can see in the 3D model this is the only position in
>>> which these parts fit.  If you consider a different part here with a
>>> different anchor shape you may have greater ease of use and better
>>> fit-up. In addition we will have greater flexibility in our final
>>> positions so that a greater range of other components will fit up and
>>> look good.
>>>
>>> Them:  Okay do whatever you need to do, but move those pieces in
>>> opposite directions (so they coincide in space and time), and make it
>>> fit multiple different parts so I can swap on the fly and it needs to
>>> look great.
>>>
>>> Me:  If you do it that way your components will interfere with each
>>> other, and if you force it you will have spring back in the wrong
>>> position for some components.  May I suggest an alternative component
>>> that will not adversely impact appearance or performance in anyway,
>>> and will allow for a better over all quality of casting and ease of use.
>>>
>>> Them:  Well, this component works just fine in other molds.  We are
>>> using this one.
>>>
>>> Me:  Okay, but I need you to acknowledge that you may have the issues
>>> I talked about along with flashing,and less than aesthetically
>>> appealing component location, and spring back in the final castings
>>> and that I advised you of these possibilities.  I need you to say you
>>> are okay with that.
>>>
>>> Then:  Here is a picture of somebody else's product showing what I want.
>>>
>>> Me:  If you look at your picture it has ever single issue I brought up.
>>>
>>> Them:  Well IF you can make it perfect I want you to make it with
>>> every criteria I gave you...
>>>
>>> Me:  FRACK!!!
>>>
>>> God has granted me a fair number of abilities.  One of those is the
>>> capacity to learn new things which has served me well.  For this I am
>>> very thankful.  The capacity to violate the commonly accepted working
>>> laws of physics is not among those abilities.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>    I once had an architect (female ...) that just couldn't understand
>> that I couldn't hang a panel on thin air ... This was part of a
>> display column/register station in the center of a sales kiosk in a
>> major Memphis mall .
>
>
>
> This was after he said, "can't we just rotate it so the hook/anchor is
> off to one side?"
>
> This was the simpler demo.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK9K24yrxAc
>
> I'm about ready to refund his money and write off the time (quite a bit)
> spent explaining the basic conundrum that two physical parts can't
> occupy the same space at the same time.
>
> This is not a home hack guy just making a few jigs in his garage.  This
> is somebody with a real tackle making business who has tried to impress
> me that he is doing work for guys in Major League Fishing, done a bit of
> name dropping, etc, etc, etc.
>
> I even suggested an alternative part that doesn't have the glaringly
> obvious (I guess not so obvious) problem.
>
> I am thankful he only went for one mold instead of the multiples he
> tried to use to negotiate, but I am even more thankful it says in every
> email that quotes are only good for ten days.
>
>

Obviously someone that cannot visualize things in 3 dimensions .
Probably can't find his ass with both hands and a map .
--
Snag
"You can lead a dummy to facts
but you can't make him think."

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

> [snip rant]
>
> God has granted me a fair number of abilities. One of those is the
> capacity to learn new things which has served me well. For this I am
> very thankful. The capacity to violate the commonly accepted working
> laws of physics is not among those abilities.

Or mathematics? I have a photographer friend who took someone's
wedding photos using 2"x2" film/negatives. Some months later, the
client returned with one of the prints and asked for an 8x10 of the
same photo. He explained that he could crop part of the photo (No,
no! I want the whole photo!) or black bars above and/or below (No, no,
no! Just exactly like this one but 8x10!). She finally went away
believing he was an obstinate, arrogant nffubyr who simply refused
to do what she wanted out of sheer cussedness.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

On 3/8/2023 9:55 PM, Mike Spencer wrote:
> Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:
>
>> [snip rant]
>>
>> God has granted me a fair number of abilities. One of those is the
>> capacity to learn new things which has served me well. For this I am
>> very thankful. The capacity to violate the commonly accepted working
>> laws of physics is not among those abilities.
>
> Or mathematics? I have a photographer friend who took someone's
> wedding photos using 2"x2" film/negatives. Some months later, the
> client returned with one of the prints and asked for an 8x10 of the
> same photo. He explained that he could crop part of the photo (No,
> no! I want the whole photo!) or black bars above and/or below (No, no,
> no! Just exactly like this one but 8x10!). She finally went away
> believing he was an obstinate, arrogant nffubyr who simply refused
> to do what she wanted out of sheer cussedness.
>
>

Wow! Yeah. Thank goodness I'm not in the photography business.

Just say no to vertical video. LOL.

The funny part is while I tried very hard to sound reasonable, friendly
and collegial in my video clip I really felt like I was being insulting
and condescending to the customer by making it. He thanked me and I can
finally move on to the next step in the process. He is using the part I
recommended at the very beginning.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

"Mike Spencer" wrote in message
news:87pm9ibk0x.fsf@bogus.nodomain.nowhere...

Or mathematics? I have a photographer friend who took someone's
wedding photos using 2"x2" film/negatives. Some months later, the
client returned with one of the prints and asked for an 8x10 of the
same photo. He explained that he could crop part of the photo (No,
no! I want the whole photo!) or black bars above and/or below (No, no,
no! Just exactly like this one but 8x10!). She finally went away
believing he was an obstinate, arrogant nffubyr who simply refused
to do what she wanted out of sheer cussedness.
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

--------------------

The classic rebuttal to a misconception was Feynman dunking an O-ring into
his glass of ice water at the Challenger disaster hearing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raMmRKGkGD4

On 3/9/2023 12:08 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Mike Spencer"  wrote in message
> news:87pm9ibk0x.fsf@bogus.nodomain.nowhere...
>
> Or mathematics?   I have a photographer friend who took someone's
> wedding photos using  2"x2" film/negatives.  Some months later, the
> client returned with one of the prints and asked for an 8x10 of the
> same photo.  He explained that he could crop part of the photo (No,
> no!  I want the whole photo!) or black bars above and/or below (No, no,
> no!  Just exactly like this one but 8x10!).  She finally went away
> believing he was an obstinate, arrogant nffubyr who simply refused
> to do what she wanted out of sheer cussedness.
> Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada
>
> --------------------
>
> The classic rebuttal to a misconception was Feynman dunking an O-ring
> into his glass of ice water at the Challenger disaster hearing.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raMmRKGkGD4
>

Grrr , I had a stake in that flight , I was on the crew that
standardized the propellant components .
That o-ring had been chilled by a nearby liquid hydrogen leak in
addition to subfreezing temps . A good friend (and former coworker) was
in the loop pre-launch . The Thiokol engineers told the politicians in
charge that as sure as they lit that bird it was going to come down in a
ball of flame . The o-ring material was so cold it could not obdurate
and seal the gap . Instant 6,000° cutting torch .
I was hanging a door for a customer when the news came in , I thought
at first he was kidding when he said the shuttle just blew up ...
--
Snag
"You can lead a dummy to facts
but you can't make him think."

"Snag" wrote in message news:tudi98$1k3b0$1@dont-email.me...

Grrr , I had a stake in that flight , I was on the crew that
standardized the propellant components .
That o-ring had been chilled by a nearby liquid hydrogen leak in
addition to subfreezing temps . A good friend (and former coworker) was
in the loop pre-launch . The Thiokol engineers told the politicians in
charge that as sure as they lit that bird it was going to come down in a
ball of flame . The o-ring material was so cold it could not obdurate
and seal the gap . Instant 6,000° cutting torch .
I was hanging a door for a customer when the news came in , I thought
at first he was kidding when he said the shuttle just blew up ...

Snag

------------------
I was watching on live TV.

Thus is the hole burned through the side of the booster rocket:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:STS-51-L_Recovered_Debris_(Burn_Marks_on_the_SRM)_-_GPN-2004-00004.jpg

This shows a leak at lift-off:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:STS-51-L_grey_smoke_on_SRB.jpg

Many previous flights had survived partial O-ring leaks.