Misleading education:

"A necessary component of a heat engine...is that two temperatures are involved" http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/py105/Heatengines.html

The truth: One-temperature (isothermal) heat engines are commonplace - e.g. pH-sensitive polymers can do work, at the expense of ambient heat, as they swell or contract. No "two temperatures" involved:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Paul-Topham/publication/47426820/figure/fig1/AS:307404580376582@1450302371395/Illustration-of-a-volume-transition-in-a-cross-linked-polybase-network-triggered-by-a-pH.png

By adding and removing hydrogen ions (H+) one can cyclically extract work from pH-sensitive polymers - see Fig. 4 on p. 15 here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1367611/pdf/biophysj00645-0017.pdf

Adding and removing H+, per se, consumes no work if done QUASISTATICALLY. This means that the work lost e.g. in adding is compensated by the work gained in removing, and the net work involved is zero. So lifting weights is the net work in the whole process. The second law of thermodynamics is clearly violated.

See more here: https://twitter.com/pentcho_valev

Pentcho Valev

On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:45:25 AM UTC-8, Pentcho Valev wrote:
> Misleading education:
>
> "A necessary component of a heat engine...is that two temperatures are involved" http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/py105/Heatengines.html
>
> The truth: One-temperature (isothermal) heat engines are commonplace - e.g. pH-sensitive polymers can do work, at the expense of ambient heat, as they swell or contract. No "two temperatures" involved:
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Paul-Topham/publication/47426820/figure/fig1/AS:307404580376582@1450302371395/Illustration-of-a-volume-transition-in-a-cross-linked-polybase-network-triggered-by-a-pH.png
>
> By adding and removing hydrogen ions (H+) one can cyclically extract work from pH-sensitive polymers - see Fig. 4 on p. 15 here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1367611/pdf/biophysj00645-0017.pdf
>
> Adding and removing H+, per se, consumes no work if done QUASISTATICALLY. This means that the work lost e.g. in adding is compensated by the work gained in removing, and the net work involved is zero. So lifting weights is the net work in the whole process. The second law of thermodynamics is clearly violated.
>
> See more here: https://twitter.com/pentcho_valev
>
> Pentcho Valev

Gobbledygook.

--
Jan

On 2021-11-14 04:04:01 +0000, JanPB said:

> On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:45:25 AM UTC-8, Pentcho Valev wrote:
>> Misleading education:>> "A necessary component of a heat engine...is
>> that two temperatures are involved"
>> http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/py105/Heatengines.html>> The truth:
>> One-temperature (isothermal) heat engines are commonplace - e.g.
>> pH-sensitive polymers can do work, at the expense of ambient heat, as
>> they swell or contract. No "two temperatures" involved:>>
>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Paul-Topham/publication/47426820/figure/fig1/AS:307404580376582@1450302371395/Illustration-of-a-volume-transition-in-a-cross-linked-polybase-network-triggered-by-a-pH.png>>
>> By adding and removing hydrogen ions (H+) one can cyclically extract
>> work from pH-sensitive polymers - see Fig. 4 on p. 15 here:
>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1367611/pdf/biophysj00645-0017.pdf>>
>> Adding and removing H+, per se, consumes no work if done
>> QUASISTATICALLY. This means that the work lost e.g. in adding is
>> compensated by the work gained in removing, and the net work involved
>> is zero. So lifting weights is the net work in the whole process. The
>> second law of thermodynamics is clearly violated.>> See more here:
>> https://twitter.com/pentcho_valev>> Pentcho Valev
>
> Gobbledygook.

You are wasting your time. Pentcho has been spouting this sort of
nonsense at least since 1997. I don't think he is capable of learning
anything now.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

On 2021-11-14 17:55:28 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:

> On 2021-11-14 04:04:01 +0000, JanPB said:
>
>> On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:45:25 AM UTC-8, Pentcho Valev wrote:
>>> Misleading education:>> "A necessary component of a heat engine...is
>>> that two temperatures are involved"
>>> http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/py105/Heatengines.html>> The truth:
>>> One-temperature (isothermal) heat engines are commonplace - e.g.
>>> pH-sensitive polymers can do work, at the expense of ambient heat, as
>>> they swell or contract. No "two temperatures" involved:>>
>>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Paul-Topham/publication/47426820/figure/fig1/AS:307404580376582@1450302371395/Illustration-of-a-volume-transition-in-a-cross-linked-polybase-network-triggered-by-a-pH.png>>
>>> By adding and removing hydrogen ions (H+) one can cyclically extract
>>> work from pH-sensitive polymers - see Fig. 4 on p. 15 here:
>>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1367611/pdf/biophysj00645-0017.pdf>>
>>> Adding and removing H+, per se, consumes no work if done
>>> QUASISTATICALLY. This means that the work lost e.g. in adding is
>>> compensated by the work gained in removing, and the net work involved
>>> is zero. So lifting weights is the net work in the whole process. The
>>> second law of thermodynamics is clearly violated.>> See more here:
>>> https://twitter.com/pentcho_valev>> Pentcho Valev
>>
>> Gobbledygook.
>
> You are wasting your time. Pentcho has been spouting this sort of
> nonsense at least since 1997. I don't think he is capable of learning
> anything now.

For what it's worth I've followed the first three links above (not the
rubbishy last one, in which, I suppose, Pentcho uses Twitter to expand
on his lack of knowledge and understanding). It's important to
emphasize that the interpretations are Pentcho's, and that the original
authors say nothing to suggest them. In the case of Paul Topham one
could ask him directly if he agrees with Pentcho's interpretation. For
Aharon Katchalski (Aharon Katzir) it's too late, as he was murdered in
1972.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

On Monday, 15 November 2021 at 11:27:27 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2021-11-14 17:55:28 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:
>
> > On 2021-11-14 04:04:01 +0000, JanPB said:
> >
> >> On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:45:25 AM UTC-8, Pentcho Valev wrote:
> >>> Misleading education:>> "A necessary component of a heat engine...is
> >>> that two temperatures are involved"
> >>> http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/py105/Heatengines.html>> The truth:
> >>> One-temperature (isothermal) heat engines are commonplace - e.g.
> >>> pH-sensitive polymers can do work, at the expense of ambient heat, as
> >>> they swell or contract. No "two temperatures" involved:>>
> >>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Paul-Topham/publication/47426820/figure/fig1/AS:307404580376582@1450302371395/Illustration-of-a-volume-transition-in-a-cross-linked-polybase-network-triggered-by-a-pH.png>>
> >>> By adding and removing hydrogen ions (H+) one can cyclically extract
> >>> work from pH-sensitive polymers - see Fig. 4 on p. 15 here:
> >>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1367611/pdf/biophysj00645-0017.pdf>>
> >>> Adding and removing H+, per se, consumes no work if done
> >>> QUASISTATICALLY. This means that the work lost e.g. in adding is
> >>> compensated by the work gained in removing, and the net work involved
> >>> is zero. So lifting weights is the net work in the whole process. The
> >>> second law of thermodynamics is clearly violated.>> See more here:
> >>> https://twitter.com/pentcho_valev>> Pentcho Valev
> >>
> >> Gobbledygook.
> >
> > You are wasting your time. Pentcho has been spouting this sort of
> > nonsense at least since 1997. I don't think he is capable of learning
> > anything now.
> For what it's worth I've followed the first three links above (not the
> rubbishy last one, in which, I suppose, Pentcho uses Twitter to expand
> on his lack of knowledge and understanding). It's important to
> emphasize that the interpretations are Pentcho's, and that the original
> authors say nothing to suggest them. In the case of Paul Topham one
> could ask him directly if he agrees with Pentcho's interpretation. For
> Aharon Katchalski (Aharon Katzir) it's too late, as he was murdered in
> 1972.

It's also important to emphasize that the mumble of you and your fellow
cultists are the interpretations of you and your fellow cultists, and the
experiments you invoke say nothing to suggest them. And in the
meantime in the real world, forbidden by your bunch of idiots GPS
clocks keep measuring t'=t, just like all serious clocks always did.

Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

> On 2021-11-14 17:55:28 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:
>
> > On 2021-11-14 04:04:01 +0000, JanPB said:
> >
> >> On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:45:25 AM UTC-8, Pentcho Valev wrote:
> >>> Misleading education:>> "A necessary component of a heat engine...is
> >>> that two temperatures are involved"
> >>> http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/py105/Heatengines.html>> The truth:
> >>> One-temperature (isothermal) heat engines are commonplace - e.g.
> >>> pH-sensitive polymers can do work, at the expense of ambient heat, as
> >>> they swell or contract. No "two temperatures" involved:>>
> >>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Paul-Topham/publication/47426820/figu
re/fig1/AS:307404580376582@1450302371395/Illustration-of-a-volume-transition-in-a-cross-linked-polybase-network-triggered-by-a-pH.png>>
> >>> By adding and removing hydrogen ions (H+) one can cyclically extract
> >>> work from pH-sensitive polymers - see Fig. 4 on p. 15 here:
> >>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1367611/pdf/biophysj00645-001
7.pdf>>
> >>> Adding and removing H+, per se, consumes no work if done
> >>> QUASISTATICALLY. This means that the work lost e.g. in adding is
> >>> compensated by the work gained in removing, and the net work involved
> >>> is zero. So lifting weights is the net work in the whole process. The
> >>> second law of thermodynamics is clearly violated.>> See more here:
> >>> https://twitter.com/pentcho_valev>> Pentcho Valev
> >>
> >> Gobbledygook.
> >
> > You are wasting your time. Pentcho has been spouting this sort of
> > nonsense at least since 1997. I don't think he is capable of learning
> > anything now.
>
> For what it's worth I've followed the first three links above (not the
> rubbishy last one, in which, I suppose, Pentcho uses Twitter to expand
> on his lack of knowledge and understanding). It's important to
> emphasize that the interpretations are Pentcho's, and that the original
> authors say nothing to suggest them. In the case of Paul Topham one
> could ask him directly if he agrees with Pentcho's interpretation. For
> Aharon Katchalski (Aharon Katzir) it's too late, as he was murdered in
> 1972.

I guess that Paul Topham (and other competent physicists)
would say that adding and removing H+ ions
cannot be done merely verbally.
It should be done in a real world situation,
by enclosing the system in a larger one
that provides and absorbs those H+ ions.

The effects of these exchanges should be dealt with
by using correct thermodynamics on the whole system.
(that is, including the chemical potentials)

I'll await a thermodynamically correct exposition
before wasting more time on this,

Jan