Food for thought,(Perhaps spoken by Spock)

"When people speak of traveling to
the past, they worry about radically
changing the present by doing something
small,
but barely anyone in the present thinks
they can radically change the future by
doing something small"

Dude...

From the Heinlein Facebook Group

On 2022-12-09 10:53 a.m., a425couple wrote:
> Food for thought,(Perhaps spoken by Spock)
>
> "When people speak of traveling to
> the past, they worry about radically
> changing the present by doing something
> small,
> but barely anyone in the present thinks
> they can radically change the future by
> doing something small"
>
> Dude...
>
>
> From the Heinlein Facebook Group
>

Radically change the future from what?

On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 01:18:03 -0700, David Johnston
<davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 2022-12-09 10:53 a.m., a425couple wrote:
>> Food for thought,(Perhaps spoken by Spock)
>>
>> "When people speak of traveling to
>> the past, they worry about radically
>> changing the present by doing something
>> small,
>> but barely anyone in the present thinks
>> they can radically change the future by
>> doing something small"
>>
>> Dude...
>>
>>
>> From the Heinlein Facebook Group
>>
>
>Radically change the future from what?

From what it would otherwise have been, of course.

People who choose /not/ to commit crimes rarely find themselves in
jail. Well, in sane countries, anyway.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On 2022-12-10 10:05 a.m., Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 01:18:03 -0700, David Johnston
> <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-12-09 10:53 a.m., a425couple wrote:
>>> Food for thought,(Perhaps spoken by Spock)
>>>
>>> "When people speak of traveling to
>>> the past, they worry about radically
>>> changing the present by doing something
>>> small,
>>> but barely anyone in the present thinks
>>> they can radically change the future by
>>> doing something small"
>>>
>>> Dude...
>>>
>>>
>>> From the Heinlein Facebook Group
>>>
>>
>> Radically change the future from what?
>
> From what it would otherwise have been, of course.
>
> People who choose /not/ to commit crimes rarely find themselves in
> jail. Well, in sane countries, anyway.

Is committing a jailable offense something small?

On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 19:43:08 -0700, David Johnston
<davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 2022-12-10 10:05 a.m., Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 01:18:03 -0700, David Johnston
>> <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-12-09 10:53 a.m., a425couple wrote:
>>>> Food for thought,(Perhaps spoken by Spock)
>>>>
>>>> "When people speak of traveling to
>>>> the past, they worry about radically
>>>> changing the present by doing something
>>>> small,
>>>> but barely anyone in the present thinks
>>>> they can radically change the future by
>>>> doing something small"
>>>>
>>>> Dude...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From the Heinlein Facebook Group
>>>>
>>>
>>> Radically change the future from what?
>>
>> From what it would otherwise have been, of course.
>>
>> People who choose /not/ to commit crimes rarely find themselves in
>> jail. Well, in sane countries, anyway.
>
>Is committing a jailable offense something small?

Many misdemeanors are. That's why they aren't felonies.

Do you /really/ want to descend into the semantic goo of what offenses
are small and what are not?
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On 12/11/2022 9:28 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 19:43:08 -0700, David Johnston
> <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-12-10 10:05 a.m., Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 01:18:03 -0700, David Johnston
>>> <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-12-09 10:53 a.m., a425couple wrote:
>>>>> Food for thought,(Perhaps spoken by Spock)
>>>>>
>>>>> "When people speak of traveling to
>>>>> the past, they worry about radically
>>>>> changing the present by doing something
>>>>> small,
>>>>> but barely anyone in the present thinks
>>>>> they can radically change the future by
>>>>> doing something small"
>>>>>
>>>>> Dude...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From the Heinlein Facebook Group
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Radically change the future from what?
>>>
>>> From what it would otherwise have been, of course.
>>>
>>> People who choose /not/ to commit crimes rarely find themselves in
>>> jail. Well, in sane countries, anyway.
>>
>> Is committing a jailable offense something small?
>
> Many misdemeanors are. That's why they aren't felonies.
>
> Do you /really/ want to descend into the semantic goo of what offenses
> are small and what are not?

Don't forget to include prosecutorial discretion in there.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 19:43:08 -0700, David Johnston
><davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2022-12-10 10:05 a.m., Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 01:18:03 -0700, David Johnston
>>> <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-12-09 10:53 a.m., a425couple wrote:
>>>>> Food for thought,(Perhaps spoken by Spock)
>>>>>
>>>>> "When people speak of traveling to
>>>>> the past, they worry about radically
>>>>> changing the present by doing something
>>>>> small,
>>>>> but barely anyone in the present thinks
>>>>> they can radically change the future by
>>>>> doing something small"
>>>>>
>>>>> Dude...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From the Heinlein Facebook Group
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Radically change the future from what?
>>>
>>> From what it would otherwise have been, of course.
>>>
>>> People who choose /not/ to commit crimes rarely find themselves in
>>> jail. Well, in sane countries, anyway.
>>
>>Is committing a jailable offense something small?
>
>Many misdemeanors are. That's why they aren't felonies.
>
>Do you /really/ want to descend into the semantic goo of what offenses
>are small and what are not?

Surely it was "small change of the future", not "small crime" that was
in question...

On 2022-12-11 10:28 a.m., Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 19:43:08 -0700, David Johnston
> <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-12-10 10:05 a.m., Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 01:18:03 -0700, David Johnston
>>> <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-12-09 10:53 a.m., a425couple wrote:
>>>>> Food for thought,(Perhaps spoken by Spock)
>>>>>
>>>>> "When people speak of traveling to
>>>>> the past, they worry about radically
>>>>> changing the present by doing something
>>>>> small,
>>>>> but barely anyone in the present thinks
>>>>> they can radically change the future by
>>>>> doing something small"
>>>>>
>>>>> Dude...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From the Heinlein Facebook Group
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Radically change the future from what?
>>>
>>> From what it would otherwise have been, of course.
>>>
>>> People who choose /not/ to commit crimes rarely find themselves in
>>> jail. Well, in sane countries, anyway.
>>
>> Is committing a jailable offense something small?
>
> Many misdemeanors are. That's why they aren't felonies.
>
> Do you /really/ want to descend into the semantic goo of what offenses
> are small and what are not?

Then let's discuss this. What difference does it make to the future
whether I'm in jail or not? When people worry about small changes in
the past leading to big changes in the present in time travel story they
aren't talking about one man messing up his own life.

On Sun, 11 Dec 2022 20:47:43 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 19:43:08 -0700, David Johnston
>><davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2022-12-10 10:05 a.m., Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 01:18:03 -0700, David Johnston
>>>> <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2022-12-09 10:53 a.m., a425couple wrote:
>>>>>> Food for thought,(Perhaps spoken by Spock)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "When people speak of traveling to
>>>>>> the past, they worry about radically
>>>>>> changing the present by doing something
>>>>>> small,
>>>>>> but barely anyone in the present thinks
>>>>>> they can radically change the future by
>>>>>> doing something small"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dude...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From the Heinlein Facebook Group
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Radically change the future from what?
>>>>
>>>> From what it would otherwise have been, of course.
>>>>
>>>> People who choose /not/ to commit crimes rarely find themselves in
>>>> jail. Well, in sane countries, anyway.
>>>
>>>Is committing a jailable offense something small?
>>
>>Many misdemeanors are. That's why they aren't felonies.
>>
>>Do you /really/ want to descend into the semantic goo of what offenses
>>are small and what are not?
>
>Surely it was "small change of the future", not "small crime" that was
>in question...

Except, of course, that my point was that whether or not a person goes
to jail for committing a crime is /not/ a random event. Ideally, it
isn't even a chaotic event. But it /does/ occur in the future, from
the perspective of when the crime was committed.

Sadly, his response otherpost shows no understanding of what I was
saying at all. He appears to now believe it is the "going to jail"
that produces the future changes. This, it seems to me, can only lead
to confusing the issue enough to make "random" appear mean the same
thing as "chaotic" or even "fully determined". Semantic goo indeed!

At least Quaddie was able to respond clearly enough to make it
apparent that he is confusing "random" (the term he used) with
"chaotic" (the term he thought he used).
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Sun, 11 Dec 2022 10:55:07 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 12/11/2022 9:28 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 19:43:08 -0700, David Johnston
>> <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-12-10 10:05 a.m., Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 01:18:03 -0700, David Johnston
>>>> <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2022-12-09 10:53 a.m., a425couple wrote:
>>>>>> Food for thought,(Perhaps spoken by Spock)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "When people speak of traveling to
>>>>>> the past, they worry about radically
>>>>>> changing the present by doing something
>>>>>> small,
>>>>>> but barely anyone in the present thinks
>>>>>> they can radically change the future by
>>>>>> doing something small"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dude...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From the Heinlein Facebook Group
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Radically change the future from what?
>>>>
>>>> From what it would otherwise have been, of course.
>>>>
>>>> People who choose /not/ to commit crimes rarely find themselves in
>>>> jail. Well, in sane countries, anyway.
>>>
>>> Is committing a jailable offense something small?
>>
>> Many misdemeanors are. That's why they aren't felonies.
>>
>> Do you /really/ want to descend into the semantic goo of what offenses
>> are small and what are not?
>
>Don't forget to include prosecutorial discretion in there.

Which, of course, is also /not random/, at least ideally.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."