https://newatlas.com/bicycles/32-lb-detroit-db-skinny-ebike/
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 10:00:59 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> https://newatlas.com/bicycles/32-lb-detroit-db-skinny-ebike/
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
I'm thinking it has a pancake motor and the remaining room is devoted to battery.

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> https://newatlas.com/bicycles/32-lb-detroit-db-skinny-ebike/

Been lit EMTB for few years now as EMTB as fun as they are, is a different
riding feel, due to weight mainly.

Roger Merriman

On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 1:49:07 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > https://newatlas.com/bicycles/32-lb-detroit-db-skinny-ebike/
>
> Been lit EMTB for few years now as EMTB as fun as they are, is a different
> riding feel, due to weight mainly.

Do you notice that it has a belt drive? So, if the don't have an internal transmission which looks unlikely, you are using the motor off of every stop because of the weight of the bike and lack of gear ratios.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 1:49:07 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> https://newatlas.com/bicycles/32-lb-detroit-db-skinny-ebike/
>>
>> Been lit EMTB for few years now as EMTB as fun as they are, is a different
>> riding feel, due to weight mainly.
>
> Do you notice that it has a belt drive? So, if the don't have an internal
> transmission which looks unlikely, you are using the motor off of every
> stop because of the weight of the bike and lack of gear ratios.
>
It’s a SS belt drive no hub gears, does seem to have regen braking which
I’ve always read wasn’t worth the effort but possibly is!

It’s not heavy 32lb is about the same as a MTB and hybrids. And way below
most hire bikes even the non Electric ones are a good 40l

My old MTB with its commuter kit is about that, low gears trump weight for
traffic light sprints in my experience.

Roger Merriman

On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 2:09:18 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 1:49:07 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>> https://newatlas.com/bicycles/32-lb-detroit-db-skinny-ebike/
> >>
> >> Been lit EMTB for few years now as EMTB as fun as they are, is a different
> >> riding feel, due to weight mainly.
> >
> > Do you notice that it has a belt drive? So, if the don't have an internal
> > transmission which looks unlikely, you are using the motor off of every
> > stop because of the weight of the bike and lack of gear ratios.
> >
> It’s a SS belt drive no hub gears, does seem to have regen braking which
> I’ve always read wasn’t worth the effort but possibly is!
>
> It’s not heavy 32lb is about the same as a MTB and hybrids. And way below
> most hire bikes even the non Electric ones are a good 40l
>
> My old MTB with its commuter kit is about that, low gears trump weight for
> traffic light sprints in my experience.

Well, my point wasn't that is was particularly heavy but that with that gearing you will be using the power all of the time so the battery life will be poor.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 2:09:18 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 1:49:07 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>> https://newatlas.com/bicycles/32-lb-detroit-db-skinny-ebike/
>>>>
>>>> Been lit EMTB for few years now as EMTB as fun as they are, is a different
>>>> riding feel, due to weight mainly.
>>>
>>> Do you notice that it has a belt drive? So, if the don't have an internal
>>> transmission which looks unlikely, you are using the motor off of every
>>> stop because of the weight of the bike and lack of gear ratios.
>>>
>> It’s a SS belt drive no hub gears, does seem to have regen braking which
>> I’ve always read wasn’t worth the effort but possibly is!
>>
>> It’s not heavy 32lb is about the same as a MTB and hybrids. And way below
>> most hire bikes even the non Electric ones are a good 40l
>>
>> My old MTB with its commuter kit is about that, low gears trump weight for
>> traffic light sprints in my experience.
>
> Well, my point wasn't that is was particularly heavy but that with that
> gearing you will be using the power all of the time so the battery life will be poor.
>
Electric motors have lots of torque can’t imagine it’s a problem, and looks
like it’s not a particularly high gear.

Lots of hire bikes have 2/3 gears at most plus all of the SS bikes out
there it’s really not a problem for the expected usage.

Ie ride across town maybe 5 miles at most?

Roger Merriman

On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 5:01:22 AM UTC-5, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>
> >> It’s not heavy 32lb is about the same as a MTB and hybrids. And way below
> >> most hire bikes even the non Electric ones are a good 40l
> >>

At 6.5 lb this might be the lightest I've found so far:

https://youtu.be/8WRzqlh3728

On 1/12/2023 1:49 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> https://newatlas.com/bicycles/32-lb-detroit-db-skinny-ebike/
>
> Been lit EMTB for few years now as EMTB as fun as they are, is a different
> riding feel, due to weight mainly.
>
> Roger Merriman

There have been wheels with integrated batteries for a while, but only
front wheels.

The big issue I see with this bike is the non-removable battery. You
can't swap out the battery to extend the range or to replace a worn out
battery. You also can't charge the battery outside the bicycle.

I'd rather buy an appropriate Cro-Mo, hydraulic disc brake bicycle with
a steel fork for $800 and an electric front wheel, with removable
battery, for $600.

On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 6:00:59 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> https://newatlas.com/bicycles/32-lb-detroit-db-skinny-ebike/
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
Uh-huh. By the time it is trimmed up to a civilised standard, that bike will be pushing 50 pounds.

But that's not its worst problem. That one is the small battery, and low service life you can expect from the battery and very probably from the rear axle, chain, sprocket and chainring.

See, a battery has lots of torque, and will jerk a fixie into mechanical trouble in no time at all. And all that torque comes from high levels of current delivery, so the battery (obviously smaaaalllll) will be flat in no time, and repeatedly, unless the bike is used only to go to the corner shop for milk and bread.

I can give you an example. There's a meter on my sophisticated control system for my bike's electric motor which I shorthand as the "coulomb meter". Why? Because it shows me, not how much total power is being used or left, but how instantaneous power is available -- obviously the blank bars on the bar graphs are the power used a moment ago, but I don't care about that, it is gone. I'm quite the connoisseur of hills: there is nowhere I ride that isn't mostly hills. So I was shocked when I discovered from the meter that the steepest hill in County Cork is a three-foot ramp that joins the shortcut over the river and around the courthouse and over the pedestrian crossing into the park that leads to my house. The oil previously considered so steep that my doctor warned me not to ride up it without him never once drives the coulomb meter that low. Also, considering how briefly the short steep section drives the coulombs up and the remainder in the battery down, the recovery to full current delivery being available (which, considering my riding style and how I use the most mostly near the tops of hills is important to me) is slower than anywhere else in my riding space.

Half my rides start uphill. My bike is a piece of ultrastiff and sturdy German agricultural engineering on custom lightweight Italian tubing, and I don't fear for the Rohloff gearbox, but half my journeys start uphill from my house, sometimes heavily loaded with painting gear, so I've taken to using the thumb throttle to break the bike loose and give it the initial impetus while I concentrate on the heavy traffic until we've picked up some impetus. Trusting to the pedelec definitely causes jerks.

BTW, my bike has 9 separate defined power delivery modes selectable by a thumb switch (ten actually if you count the default pedelec mode, eleven with the completely manual mode), and further programmable if the owner wants to be bothered, and my Rohloff hub gearbox has 14 gears, so there is no excuse for tearing the bike apart (even if it weren't so overbuilt) with electrical torque. I've also seen no evidence of the chains being abused by the motor -- quite the contrary: the electrical motor has facilitated my chain wear being reduced by two thirds, or, viewing it alternatively, my chain mileage is now three times what it was in my manual mashing period.

If I were an LBS I wouldn't take up an agency for that bike. I think returns and repairs will murder any potential profit.

Andre Jute
I have a Reason Lock on my wallet.
>

On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 10:00:33 PM UTC, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 1:49:07 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > > https://newatlas.com/bicycles/32-lb-detroit-db-skinny-ebike/
> >
> > Been lit EMTB for few years now as EMTB as fun as they are, is a different
> > riding feel, due to weight mainly.
> Do you notice that it has a belt drive? So, if the don't have an internal transmission which looks unlikely, you are using the motor off of every stop because of the weight of the bike and lack of gear ratios.
>
Yeah, that struck me too, straight off. -- AJ

On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 7:16:29 PM UTC, sms wrote:

> There have been wheels with integrated batteries for a while, but only
> front wheels.
>
That makes the perfect bike for Dumb and Dumber. Batteries are heavy. Putting them in the front wheel guarantees a poor-handling bike which will fight the rider all the time.
>
> The big issue I see with this bike is the non-removable battery. You
> can't swap out the battery to extend the range or to replace a worn out
> battery. You also can't charge the battery outside the bicycle.
>
Did I say Dumb and Dumber yet? Where I live, most electric bikes, most of them pretty pricey, get retired because people didn't care properly for the battery. That bike makes it even more difficult to care for the battery.
>
Andre Jute
Sorry to disturb the love-in.
>

On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 6:35:59 PM UTC-5, the angry little afro-irish troll sharted:
> On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 6:00:59 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> > https://newatlas.com/bicycles/32-lb-detroit-db-skinny-ebike/
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >
> Uh-huh. By the time it is trimmed up to a civilised standard, that bike will be pushing 50 pounds.
>
> But that's not its worst problem. That one is the small battery, and low service life you can expect from the battery and very probably from the rear axle, chain, sprocket and chainring.
>
> See, a battery has lots of torque,

Sure skippy - batteries have torque...LOL...and Karl Popper helped you on your thesis...

> and will jerk a fixie into mechanical trouble in no time at all.

If there was ever a reason to toss any advice from the arrogant ignorant afro-irish troll directly into the trash, this is it. But why bother explaining the concept of a torque curve from a DC motor to a super genius like troll-boy? I'm sure he can refer back to his popper-assisted "science" education and set us all straight.

> And all that torque comes from high levels of current delivery, so the battery (obviously smaaaalllll) will be flat in no time, and repeatedly, unless the bike is used only to go to the corner shop for milk and bread.
>
> I can give you an example. There's a meter on my sophisticated control system for my bike's electric motor which I shorthand as the "coulomb meter". Why? Because it shows me, not how much total power is being used or left, but how instantaneous power is available.

It isn't surprising that someone who thinks batteries have torque wants to think there is any other practical way of measure the electrical potential of a battery besides a volt meter. No, shitferbrains, there is no danger of a bike with a smaaaalllll battery and a puny 250 watt motor (including the torque-limiting controller specifically so you _don't_ apply full power from a stop, not for reasons of damaging the bike bike but to prevent it from launching at the first pedal stroke.) What's significantly more dangerous to the durability of the drive train is a fat old fuck like you standing on the pedals.

> obviously the blank bars on the bar graphs are the power used a moment ago, but I don't care about that, it is gone. I'm quite the connoisseur of hills: there is nowhere I ride that isn't mostly hills. So I was shocked when I discovered from the meter that the steepest hill in County Cork is a three-foot ramp that joins the shortcut over the river and around the courthouse and over the pedestrian crossing into the park that leads to my house. The oil previously considered so steep that my doctor warned me not to ride up it without him never once drives the coulomb meter that low. Also, considering how briefly the short steep section drives the coulombs up and the remainder in the battery down, the recovery to full current delivery being available (which, considering my riding style and how I use the most mostly near the tops of hills is important to me) is slower than anywhere else in my riding space.
>
> Half my rides start uphill. My bike is a piece of ultrastiff and sturdy German agricultural engineering on custom lightweight Italian tubing, and I don't fear for the Rohloff gearbox, but half my journeys start uphill from my house, sometimes heavily loaded with painting gear, so I've taken to using the thumb throttle to break the bike loose and give it the initial impetus while I concentrate on the heavy traffic until we've picked up some impetus. Trusting to the pedelec definitely causes jerks.
>
> BTW, my bike has 9 separate defined power delivery modes selectable by a thumb switch (ten actually if you count the default pedelec mode, eleven with the completely manual mode), and further programmable if the owner wants to be bothered, and my Rohloff hub gearbox has 14 gears, so there is no excuse for tearing the bike apart (even if it weren't so overbuilt) with electrical torque. I've also seen no evidence of the chains being abused by the motor -- quite the contrary: the electrical motor has facilitated my chain wear being reduced by two thirds, or, viewing it alternatively, my chain mileage is now three times what it was in my manual mashing period.
>
> If I were an LBS I wouldn't take up an agency for that bike. I think returns and repairs will murder any potential profit.

Right, because warranty repairs are born exclusively by the LBS, and there isn't enough profit in the service side of an LBS to cover non-warranty repairs. You really weren't very good at much of anything, were ya skippy......

>
> Andre Jute
> I have a Reason Lock on my w̶a̶l̶l̶e̶t̶ brain.

> >