Just wanted to buy more KMC Z72 chains and found their prices had shot
up above $20. A bit much for the paltry lifetime of a chain. When
looking I didn't even see many of those anymore. Instead, now it is
X8.93, X8.99 or whetever. It's very confusing.

Some are listed 7.1mm, some 7.3mm, assuming that is the overall width
including pins. My road bike used to be 6-speed, then I upped it to
7-speed and now, after bending apart the frame, it has an 8-speed
cassette because that's more available (with the smallest sprocket not
usable to do interference with a rack screw).

So, does an X8.93 replace a Z72? Or an X8.<some_other_number>? Or maybe
another brand that is <$20? It does have to have a quick link though and
preferably accept the Wippermann Connex link.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 1/10/2023 5:28 PM, Joerg wrote:
> Just wanted to buy more KMC Z72 chains and found their
> prices had shot up above $20. A bit much for the paltry
> lifetime of a chain. When looking I didn't even see many of
> those anymore. Instead, now it is X8.93, X8.99 or whetever.
> It's very confusing.
>
> Some are listed 7.1mm, some 7.3mm, assuming that is the
> overall width including pins. My road bike used to be
> 6-speed, then I upped it to 7-speed and now, after bending
> apart the frame, it has an 8-speed cassette because that's
> more available (with the smallest sprocket not usable to do
> interference with a rack screw).
>
> So, does an X8.93 replace a Z72? Or an
> X8.<some_other_number>? Or maybe another brand that is <$20?
> It does have to have a quick link though and preferably
> accept the Wippermann Connex link.
>

Yes chain prices have risen overall.
KMC X series have an "X" shape stamped on the outside of the
'outie' links for enhanced shifting. A snaplink is included
in the package.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 12:15:36 AM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/10/2023 5:28 PM, Joerg wrote:
> > Just wanted to buy more KMC Z72 chains and found their
> > prices had shot up above $20. A bit much for the paltry
> > lifetime of a chain. When looking I didn't even see many of
> > those anymore. Instead, now it is X8.93, X8.99 or whetever.
> > It's very confusing.
> >
> > Some are listed 7.1mm, some 7.3mm, assuming that is the
> > overall width including pins. My road bike used to be
> > 6-speed, then I upped it to 7-speed and now, after bending
> > apart the frame, it has an 8-speed cassette because that's
> > more available (with the smallest sprocket not usable to do
> > interference with a rack screw).
> >
> > So, does an X8.93 replace a Z72? Or an
> > X8.<some_other_number>? Or maybe another brand that is <$20?
> > It does have to have a quick link though and preferably
> > accept the Wippermann Connex link.
> >
> Yes chain prices have risen overall.
> KMC X series have an "X" shape stamped on the outside of the
> 'outie' links for enhanced shifting. A snaplink is included
> in the package.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
I've been using KMC X8-xx chains for a couple of decades, and have never seen any evidence that the more expensive KMCs are worth the extra money. Whenever required, I just buy a bulk lot of the cheapest KMC X8 chains that are on sale at my fave retailer Chainreactioncycles of Belfast (who gives me free carriage to the Republic of Ireland, where I live). Normally that's one of two of the several X8 styles.The X8-93 is half-nickelled, the X8-99 is full-nickelled; presumably there's an unnickelled style and an X8-96 style as well but I've never seen either. Otherwise both -93 and -99 are technically the same, and the extent of rust-protection makes no difference to me as my chain runs in a fully enclosing Hebie Chainglider. A quick link comes with each X8. In the past, when I operated electronic shifting systems that were intolerant of changes in the rear wheel position (Shimano Smover full auto Di2 ) I found it convenient to buy spare quicklinks from KMC and to split the chain at two positions with quicklinks. One technicality to watch out for if you buy spare KMC quicklinks, of which you are already aware, is that some KMC chains come in more than one width, and you must ensure that you buy the right width of quick link. I used to run Connex chains and quicklinks before I switched to KMC, and always found them good, too, but they wouldn't fit in the Hebie Chainglider, which for me is a must-have on a fixie or a hub gearbox bike because I cycle in street clothes.
>
I run my KMC chains inside the Hebie Chainglider for the entire service life of each chain on the factory lube, no cleaning, no service, no added lube, no buggering around with chains. That's the reason I changed to KMC, because they not only make, on balance, the best chains, but because they use an absolutely outstanding factory lube with a terrific service life. As an example, I used to get around a 1000m on a Connex chain inside a plastic Dutch chain case, lubed every 100m with liquid white wax. This isn't because Connex makes a bad chain but because I'm a retired jock, a masher. With the KMC X8 inside a Hebie Chainglider, running entirely on the factory lube, no additional oil or any service whatsoever, I got near enough 3000m (4506km precisely -- half a dozen chattering monkeys will now screech that it isn't 3000m -- screw them). You can read more experience with the KMC chains, including those supposed to be better than the X8, in the link I supply and by searching on that site for "KMC" and "Chainglider":
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6813.0
>
For the sake of completeness, the KMC 8-speed chain equivalent to the X8 (a derailleur chain) but for fixies and hub gearboxes is Zx. The problem with the best of the Z series chains (which I've used in the past when they were available) is that they're less well sold and therefore usually more expensive on sale than the X8, which in my opinion is a superior chain by virtue of the flexibility built into it, especially if you haven't managed to install the gears and chain absolutely parallel to the centreline of your bike (the offset on my Rohloff Hub Gear bike is actually zero, but I needed a lot of help from my friends to get there). Mr Muzi might have an opinion too about the relative merits of these two exemplary chains from the same factory.
>
Andre Jute
The details matter.
>

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 12:28:34 AM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
> Just wanted to buy more KMC Z72 chains and found their prices had shot
> up above $20. A bit much for the paltry lifetime of a chain. When
> looking I didn't even see many of those anymore. Instead, now it is
> X8.93, X8.99 or whetever. It's very confusing.
>
> Some are listed 7.1mm, some 7.3mm, assuming that is the overall width
> including pins. My road bike used to be 6-speed, then I upped it to
> 7-speed and now, after bending apart the frame, it has an 8-speed
> cassette because that's more available (with the smallest sprocket not
> usable to do interference with a rack screw).
>
> So, does an X8.93 replace a Z72? Or an X8.<some_other_number>? Or maybe
> another brand that is <$20? It does have to have a quick link though and
> preferably accept the Wippermann Connex link.
>
> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com

That is quite a price range:
https://www.bike-components.de/en/components/drivetrain/chains/?m108134filterGearing~~%2520x=8

Lou

On 1/11/2023 8:03 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 12:15:36 AM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/10/2023 5:28 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>> Just wanted to buy more KMC Z72 chains and found their
>>> prices had shot up above $20. A bit much for the paltry
>>> lifetime of a chain. When looking I didn't even see many of
>>> those anymore. Instead, now it is X8.93, X8.99 or whetever.
>>> It's very confusing.
>>>
>>> Some are listed 7.1mm, some 7.3mm, assuming that is the
>>> overall width including pins. My road bike used to be
>>> 6-speed, then I upped it to 7-speed and now, after bending
>>> apart the frame, it has an 8-speed cassette because that's
>>> more available (with the smallest sprocket not usable to do
>>> interference with a rack screw).
>>>
>>> So, does an X8.93 replace a Z72? Or an
>>> X8.<some_other_number>? Or maybe another brand that is <$20?
>>> It does have to have a quick link though and preferably
>>> accept the Wippermann Connex link.
>>>
>> Yes chain prices have risen overall.
>> KMC X series have an "X" shape stamped on the outside of the
>> 'outie' links for enhanced shifting. A snaplink is included
>> in the package.
>>
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>
> I've been using KMC X8-xx chains for a couple of decades, and have never seen any evidence that the more expensive KMCs are worth the extra money. Whenever required, I just buy a bulk lot of the cheapest KMC X8 chains that are on sale at my fave retailer Chainreactioncycles of Belfast (who gives me free carriage to the Republic of Ireland, where I live). Normally that's one of two of the several X8 styles.The X8-93 is half-nickelled, the X8-99 is full-nickelled; presumably there's an unnickelled style and an X8-96 style as well but I've never seen either. Otherwise both -93 and -99 are technically the same, and the extent of rust-protection makes no difference to me as my chain runs in a fully enclosing Hebie Chainglider. A quick link comes with each X8. In the past, when I operated electronic shifting systems that were intolerant of changes in the rear wheel position (Shimano Smover full auto Di2 ) I found it convenient to buy spare quicklinks from KMC and to split the chain at t
wo positions with quicklinks. One technicality to watch out for if you buy spare KMC quicklinks, of which you are already aware, is that some KMC chains come in more than one width, and you must ensure that you buy the right width of quick link. I used to run Connex chains and quicklinks before I switched to KMC, and always found them good, too, but they wouldn't fit in the Hebie Chainglider, which for me is a must-have on a fixie or a hub gearbox bike because I cycle in street clothes.
>>
> I run my KMC chains inside the Hebie Chainglider for the entire service life of each chain on the factory lube, no cleaning, no service, no added lube, no buggering around with chains. That's the reason I changed to KMC, because they not only make, on balance, the best chains, but because they use an absolutely outstanding factory lube with a terrific service life. As an example, I used to get around a 1000m on a Connex chain inside a plastic Dutch chain case, lubed every 100m with liquid white wax. This isn't because Connex makes a bad chain but because I'm a retired jock, a masher. With the KMC X8 inside a Hebie Chainglider, running entirely on the factory lube, no additional oil or any service whatsoever, I got near enough 3000m (4506km precisely -- half a dozen chattering monkeys will now screech that it isn't 3000m -- screw them). You can read more experience with the KMC chains, including those supposed to be better than the X8, in the link I supply and by searching on that
site for "KMC" and "Chainglider":
> http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6813.0
>>
> For the sake of completeness, the KMC 8-speed chain equivalent to the X8 (a derailleur chain) but for fixies and hub gearboxes is Zx. The problem with the best of the Z series chains (which I've used in the past when they were available) is that they're less well sold and therefore usually more expensive on sale than the X8, which in my opinion is a superior chain by virtue of the flexibility built into it, especially if you haven't managed to install the gears and chain absolutely parallel to the centreline of your bike (the offset on my Rohloff Hub Gear bike is actually zero, but I needed a lot of help from my friends to get there). Mr Muzi might have an opinion too about the relative merits of these two exemplary chains from the same factory.
>>
> Andre Jute
> The details matter.
>>

KMC X series chain varies by finish (corrosion resistant,
shiny, multi-color, etc) not by material or performance.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

with <tpkv33$m0h9$1@dont-email.me> AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/10/2023 5:28 PM, Joerg wrote:

*SKIP*
> KMC X series have an "X" shape stamped on the outside of the 'outie'
> links for enhanced shifting.

I see how 'outie' has become what it is today. And the other one?

--
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 10:33:10 AM UTC-8, Eric Pozharski wrote:
> with <tpkv33$m0h9$1...@dont-email.me> AMuzi wrote:
> > On 1/10/2023 5:28 PM, Joerg wrote:
> *SKIP*
> > KMC X series have an "X" shape stamped on the outside of the 'outie'
> > links for enhanced shifting.
> I see how 'outie' has become what it is today. And the other one?
>
> --
> Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
> Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom

The "innie" doesn't have any effect on the shifting. BTW Welcome home.

On 1/11/23 7:15 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/11/2023 8:03 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
>> On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 12:15:36 AM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/10/2023 5:28 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>>> Just wanted to buy more KMC Z72 chains and found their
>>>> prices had shot up above $20. A bit much for the paltry
>>>> lifetime of a chain. When looking I didn't even see many of
>>>> those anymore. Instead, now it is X8.93, X8.99 or whetever.
>>>> It's very confusing.
>>>>
>>>> Some are listed 7.1mm, some 7.3mm, assuming that is the
>>>> overall width including pins. My road bike used to be
>>>> 6-speed, then I upped it to 7-speed and now, after bending
>>>> apart the frame, it has an 8-speed cassette because that's
>>>> more available (with the smallest sprocket not usable to do
>>>> interference with a rack screw).
>>>>
>>>> So, does an X8.93 replace a Z72? Or an
>>>> X8.<some_other_number>? Or maybe another brand that is <$20?
>>>> It does have to have a quick link though and preferably
>>>> accept the Wippermann Connex link.
>>>>
>>> Yes chain prices have risen overall.
>>> KMC X series have an "X" shape stamped on the outside of the
>>> 'outie' links for enhanced shifting. A snaplink is included
>>> in the package.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andrew Muzi
>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>
>> I've been using KMC X8-xx chains for a couple of decades, and have
>> never seen any evidence that the more expensive KMCs are worth the
>> extra money. Whenever required, I just buy a bulk lot of the cheapest
>> KMC X8 chains that are on sale at my fave retailer Chainreactioncycles
>> of Belfast (who gives me free carriage to the Republic of Ireland,
>> where I live). Normally that's one of two of the several X8 styles.The
>> X8-93 is half-nickelled, the X8-99 is full-nickelled; presumably
>> there's an unnickelled style and an X8-96 style as well but I've never
>> seen either. Otherwise both -93 and -99 are technically the same, ...

Thanks, Andre, that is the information I was looking for. So I can then
buy the X8.93, provided its extra 0.2mm in width won't matter.

>> ... and
>> the extent of rust-protection makes no difference to me as my chain
>> runs in a fully enclosing Hebie Chainglider. A quick link comes with
>> each X8.

They do but theybare tough to re-open. I'd like to use the Wippermann
Connex link. But if it doesn't fit, oh well, then I have to live with
the missing link from KMC.

>> ... In the past, when I operated electronic shifting systems that
>> were intolerant of changes in the rear wheel position (Shimano Smover
>> full auto Di2 ) I found it convenient to buy spare quicklinks from KMC
>> and to split the chain at t
> wo positions with quicklinks. One technicality to watch out for if you
> buy spare KMC quicklinks, of which you are already aware, is that some
> KMC chains come in more than one width, and you must ensure that you buy
> the right width of quick link. I used to run Connex chains and
> quicklinks before I switched to KMC, and always found them good, too,
> but they wouldn't fit in the Hebie Chainglider, which for me is a
> must-have on a fixie or a hub gearbox bike because I cycle in street
> clothes.

The X8.93 is 7.3mm while the Z72 I've used so far is 7.1mm. Confusing. I
hope it won't rattle on other gears. I can't find width data on the
Wippermann Connex 8-speed link. Specs in teh cycling industry are often
ratehr incomplete.

>>>
>> I run my KMC chains inside the Hebie Chainglider for the entire
>> service life of each chain on the factory lube, no cleaning, no
>> service, no added lube, no buggering around with chains. That's the
>> reason I changed to KMC, because they not only make, on balance, the
>> best chains, but because they use an absolutely outstanding factory
>> lube with a terrific service life. As an example, I used to get around
>> a 1000m on a Connex chain inside a plastic Dutch chain case, lubed
>> every 100m with liquid white wax. This isn't because Connex makes a
>> bad chain but because I'm a retired jock, a masher. With the KMC X8
>> inside a Hebie Chainglider, running entirely on the factory lube, no
>> additional oil or any service whatsoever, I got near enough 3000m
>> (4506km precisely -- half a dozen chattering monkeys will now screech
>> that it isn't 3000m -- screw them). You can read more experience with
>> the KMC chains, including those supposed to be better than the X8, in
>> the link I supply and by searching on that
> site for "KMC" and "Chainglider":
>> http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6813.0
>>>
>> For the sake of completeness, the KMC 8-speed chain equivalent to the
>> X8 (a derailleur chain) but for fixies and hub gearboxes is Zx. The
>> problem with the best of the Z series chains (which I've used in the
>> past when they were available) is that they're less well sold and
>> therefore usually more expensive on sale than the X8, which in my
>> opinion is a superior chain by virtue of the flexibility built into
>> it, especially if you haven't managed to install the gears and chain
>> absolutely parallel to the centreline of your bike (the offset on my
>> Rohloff Hub Gear bike is actually zero, but I needed a lot of help
>> from my friends to get there). Mr Muzi might have an opinion too about
>> the relative merits of these two exemplary chains from the same factory.
>>>
>> Andre Jute
>> The details matter.
>>>
>
> KMC X series chain varies by finish (corrosion resistant, shiny,
> multi-color, etc) not by material or performance.
>

None of that I'd care about and with me chains don't last long enough
for corrosion to be an issue.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

>
On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 9:33:06 PM UTC, Joerg wrote:
>
> Thanks, Andre, that is the information I was looking for. So I can then
> buy the X8.93, provided its extra 0.2mm in width won't matter.
>
Right. Measure the space between your chainrings and between the sprocket side and any profusion on the frame that might interfere with the chain.
>
> [KMC quicklinks]
>are tough to re-open. I'd like to use the Wippermann
> Connex link. But if it doesn't fit, oh well, then I have to live with
> the missing link from KMC.
>
KMC will graciously sell you a pair of dedicated pliers to open their quick link, and another pair to refit it... Park is also on that scam. I think mine is probably from X-tools.
>
Andre Jute
4605km on the factory chain lube, no service whatsoever.
>

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:07:08 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> >
> On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 9:33:06 PM UTC, Joerg wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, Andre, that is the information I was looking for. So I can then
> > buy the X8.93, provided its extra 0.2mm in width won't matter.
> >
> Right. Measure the space between your chainrings and between the sprocket side and any profusion on the frame that might interfere with the chain.
> >
> > [KMC quicklinks]
> >are tough to re-open. I'd like to use the Wippermann
> > Connex link. But if it doesn't fit, oh well, then I have to live with
> > the missing link from KMC.
> >
> KMC will graciously sell you a pair of dedicated pliers to open their quick link, and another pair to refit it... Park is also on that scam. I think mine is probably from X-tools.
> >
> Andre Jute
> 4605km on the factory chain lube, no service whatsoever.
> >
Back in the days when 8 speeds were the most advanced the chains were really stiff and didn't have hardly any flex. My assumption is that today's 8 speeds are using 2022 chain technology making them a great deal more flexible and so with longer wear since changing gears introduces a lot of wear.

On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 5:50:07 PM UTC, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:07:08 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> > >
> > On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 9:33:06 PM UTC, Joerg wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks, Andre, that is the information I was looking for. So I can then
> > > buy the X8.93, provided its extra 0.2mm in width won't matter.
> > >
> > Right. Measure the space between your chainrings and between the sprocket side and any profusion on the frame that might interfere with the chain.
> > >
> > > [KMC quicklinks]
> > >are tough to re-open. I'd like to use the Wippermann
> > > Connex link. But if it doesn't fit, oh well, then I have to live with
> > > the missing link from KMC.
> > >
> > KMC will graciously sell you a pair of dedicated pliers to open their quick link, and another pair to refit it... Park is also on that scam. I think mine is probably from X-tools.
> > >
> > Andre Jute
> > 4605km on the factory chain lube, no service whatsoever.
> > >
> Back in the days when 8 speeds were the most advanced the chains were really stiff and didn't have hardly any flex. My assumption is that today's 8 speeds are using 2022 chain technology making them a great deal more flexible and so with longer wear since changing gears introduces a lot of wear.
>
KMC certainly differentiates between "one-speed" chains and derailleur chains. It is possible that Joerg's short chain life, if he operates a derailleur into a KMC Z series chain, is due to the extra-stiff fixie chain wearing faster than it should anytime it is angled onto gears either side of a straight chain line. That's also the reason I prefer the derailleur X8 over the hub-gear specific Z7, even though I no longer have even one derailleur bike, that I think the X8 possibly gives me a bit longer wear precisely because it is flexible. A Rohloff chain is operated very slackly by the standards prevalent elsewhere in bikes of that type and spec, and I think that aggravates the stiffness problem by multiplying it into three dimensions. -- AJ
>

On 2023-01-11, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 1/10/2023 5:28 PM, Joerg wrote:
>> Just wanted to buy more KMC Z72 chains and found their
>> prices had shot up above $20. A bit much for the paltry
>> lifetime of a chain. When looking I didn't even see many of
>> those anymore. Instead, now it is X8.93, X8.99 or whetever.
>> It's very confusing.
>>
>> Some are listed 7.1mm, some 7.3mm, assuming that is the
>> overall width including pins. My road bike used to be
>> 6-speed, then I upped it to 7-speed and now, after bending
>> apart the frame, it has an 8-speed cassette because that's
>> more available (with the smallest sprocket not usable to do
>> interference with a rack screw).
>>
>> So, does an X8.93 replace a Z72? Or an
>> X8.<some_other_number>? Or maybe another brand that is <$20?
>> It does have to have a quick link though and preferably
>> accept the Wippermann Connex link.
>>
>
> Yes chain prices have risen overall.
> KMC X series have an "X" shape stamped on the outside of the
> 'outie' links for enhanced shifting. A snaplink is included
> in the package.
>

So what is the best approximation of my old fave, the Sedisport MM-55, these
days?

pH in Aptos

On 1/13/2023 8:17 PM, pH wrote:
> On 2023-01-11, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> On 1/10/2023 5:28 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>> Just wanted to buy more KMC Z72 chains and found their
>>> prices had shot up above $20. A bit much for the paltry
>>> lifetime of a chain. When looking I didn't even see many of
>>> those anymore. Instead, now it is X8.93, X8.99 or whetever.
>>> It's very confusing.
>>>
>>> Some are listed 7.1mm, some 7.3mm, assuming that is the
>>> overall width including pins. My road bike used to be
>>> 6-speed, then I upped it to 7-speed and now, after bending
>>> apart the frame, it has an 8-speed cassette because that's
>>> more available (with the smallest sprocket not usable to do
>>> interference with a rack screw).
>>>
>>> So, does an X8.93 replace a Z72? Or an
>>> X8.<some_other_number>? Or maybe another brand that is <$20?
>>> It does have to have a quick link though and preferably
>>> accept the Wippermann Connex link.
>>>
>>
>> Yes chain prices have risen overall.
>> KMC X series have an "X" shape stamped on the outside of the
>> 'outie' links for enhanced shifting. A snaplink is included
>> in the package.
>>
>
> So what is the best approximation of my old fave, the Sedisport MM-55, these
> days?
>
> pH in Aptos
>

Sorry can't help. MM-55?

Original Sedisport, the first interrupted plate bushingless
chain, is a Sedis 4L (I have a couple of my personal stash
nearby at the moment. It replaced the legendary Sedis 4D.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 23:24:53 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 1/13/2023 8:17 PM, pH wrote:
>> So what is the best approximation of my old fave, the Sedisport MM-55, these
>> days?
>> pH in Aptos

>Sorry can't help. MM-55?
>
>Original Sedisport, the first interrupted plate bushingless
> chain, is a Sedis 4L (I have a couple of my personal stash
>nearby at the moment. It replaced the legendary Sedis 4D.

Just a guess(tm), but I think he might mean this chain:

<http://www.bikepro.com/products/chains/sachs-sedis.html>
"SACHS/SEDISPORT ATB / SC-M50/55 MOUNTAIN-BIKE SPECIAL CHAIN"

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 1/13/23 11:10 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 23:24:53 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 1/13/2023 8:17 PM, pH wrote:
>>> So what is the best approximation of my old fave, the Sedisport MM-55, these
>>> days?
>>> pH in Aptos
>
>> Sorry can't help. MM-55?
>>
>> Original Sedisport, the first interrupted plate bushingless
>> chain, is a Sedis 4L (I have a couple of my personal stash
>> nearby at the moment. It replaced the legendary Sedis 4D.
>
> Just a guess(tm), but I think he might mean this chain:
>
> <http://www.bikepro.com/products/chains/sachs-sedis.html>
> "SACHS/SEDISPORT ATB / SC-M50/55 MOUNTAIN-BIKE SPECIAL CHAIN"
>

Sedisport were among the best (as in longest lasting) chains I ever had.
Hard to come by and pricey now. The other good brand for me was Wippermann.

Yesterday I ordered a couple of KMC Z8.1 chains to try out. Got a deal
just above $10 plus tax. These are 7.1mm wide. I measured the pin length
of the Wippermann 8-speed Connex Link and to my surprise that's only
6.85mm. So a 7.3mm chain probably wouldn't be good.

I want to start using the Connex Link so I can swap chains with greater
ease in order to more evenly wear out the rear cluster and maybe milk
1000mi more out of that. Or maybe 2000mi ...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2023-01-14, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 23:24:53 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>On 1/13/2023 8:17 PM, pH wrote:
>>> So what is the best approximation of my old fave, the Sedisport MM-55, these
>>> days?
>>> pH in Aptos
>
>>Sorry can't help. MM-55?
>>
>>Original Sedisport, the first interrupted plate bushingless
>> chain, is a Sedis 4L (I have a couple of my personal stash
>>nearby at the moment. It replaced the legendary Sedis 4D.
>
> Just a guess(tm), but I think he might mean this chain:
>
><http://www.bikepro.com/products/chains/sachs-sedis.html>
> "SACHS/SEDISPORT ATB / SC-M50/55 MOUNTAIN-BIKE SPECIAL CHAIN"
>

Ah, yes, my memory, it must be the Sachs number that replaced whatever the
sedisport was (for my Suntour ultra-6 drivetrain).
pH

On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 8:41:21 PM UTC-8, pH wrote:
> On 2023-01-14, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 23:24:53 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> >>On 1/13/2023 8:17 PM, pH wrote:
> >>> So what is the best approximation of my old fave, the Sedisport MM-55, these
> >>> days?
> >>> pH in Aptos
> >
> >>Sorry can't help. MM-55?
> >>
> >>Original Sedisport, the first interrupted plate bushingless
> >> chain, is a Sedis 4L (I have a couple of my personal stash
> >>nearby at the moment. It replaced the legendary Sedis 4D.
> >
> > Just a guess(tm), but I think he might mean this chain:
> >
> ><http://www.bikepro.com/products/chains/sachs-sedis.html>
> > "SACHS/SEDISPORT ATB / SC-M50/55 MOUNTAIN-BIKE SPECIAL CHAIN"
> >
> Ah, yes, my memory, it must be the Sachs number that replaced whatever the
> sedisport was (for my Suntour ultra-6 drivetrain).
> pH

If I am going to be particular about what chains I am going to use I prefer Campy. If I want the BEST, I get Connex.

On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 5:07:07 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 8:41:21 PM UTC-8, pH wrote:
> > On 2023-01-14, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 23:24:53 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >>On 1/13/2023 8:17 PM, pH wrote:
> > >>> So what is the best approximation of my old fave, the Sedisport MM-55, these
> > >>> days?
> > >>> pH in Aptos
> > >
> > >>Sorry can't help. MM-55?
> > >>
> > >>Original Sedisport, the first interrupted plate bushingless
> > >> chain, is a Sedis 4L (I have a couple of my personal stash
> > >>nearby at the moment. It replaced the legendary Sedis 4D.
> > >
> > > Just a guess(tm), but I think he might mean this chain:
> > >
> > ><http://www.bikepro.com/products/chains/sachs-sedis.html>
> > > "SACHS/SEDISPORT ATB / SC-M50/55 MOUNTAIN-BIKE SPECIAL CHAIN"
> > >
> > Ah, yes, my memory, it must be the Sachs number that replaced whatever the
> > sedisport was (for my Suntour ultra-6 drivetrain).
> > pH
> If I am going to be particular about what chains I am going to use I prefer Campy. If I want the BEST, I get Connex.

My experience is that Campy Record chains are (much) better than the expensive Connex I used once. I have no time or feel like to compare all tipes of chains or tires. It is Campy Record chains and Continental GP 5000 tires for me and done with it. I make an exception for my cross bike in the mud. Boy, it was muddy last Sunday after all the rain last week. There I use Shimano 105 chains. They are worn after 1500 km no matter what.

Lou

On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 8:42:43 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 5:07:07 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 8:41:21 PM UTC-8, pH wrote:
> > > On 2023-01-14, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 23:24:53 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>On 1/13/2023 8:17 PM, pH wrote:
> > > >>> So what is the best approximation of my old fave, the Sedisport MM-55, these
> > > >>> days?
> > > >>> pH in Aptos
> > > >
> > > >>Sorry can't help. MM-55?
> > > >>
> > > >>Original Sedisport, the first interrupted plate bushingless
> > > >> chain, is a Sedis 4L (I have a couple of my personal stash
> > > >>nearby at the moment. It replaced the legendary Sedis 4D.
> > > >
> > > > Just a guess(tm), but I think he might mean this chain:
> > > >
> > > ><http://www.bikepro.com/products/chains/sachs-sedis.html>
> > > > "SACHS/SEDISPORT ATB / SC-M50/55 MOUNTAIN-BIKE SPECIAL CHAIN"
> > > >
> > > Ah, yes, my memory, it must be the Sachs number that replaced whatever the
> > > sedisport was (for my Suntour ultra-6 drivetrain).
> > > pH
> > If I am going to be particular about what chains I am going to use I prefer Campy. If I want the BEST, I get Connex.
> My experience is that Campy Record chains are (much) better than the expensive Connex I used once. I have no time or feel like to compare all tipes of chains or tires. It is Campy Record chains and Continental GP 5000 tires for me and done with it. I make an exception for my cross bike in the mud. Boy, it was muddy last Sunday after all the rain last week. There I use Shimano 105 chains. They are worn after 1500 km no matter what.
>
> Lou
I wear GP5000's pretty fast but because I ride so many different bikes I have a poor feel for chain wear and they seem to last forever with my hot wax and Teflon treatment.

On 1/18/2023 10:42 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 5:07:07 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 8:41:21 PM UTC-8, pH wrote:
>>> On 2023-01-14, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 23:24:53 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/13/2023 8:17 PM, pH wrote:
>>>>>> So what is the best approximation of my old fave, the Sedisport MM-55, these
>>>>>> days?
>>>>>> pH in Aptos
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry can't help. MM-55?
>>>>>
>>>>> Original Sedisport, the first interrupted plate bushingless
>>>>> chain, is a Sedis 4L (I have a couple of my personal stash
>>>>> nearby at the moment. It replaced the legendary Sedis 4D.
>>>>
>>>> Just a guess(tm), but I think he might mean this chain:
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.bikepro.com/products/chains/sachs-sedis.html>
>>>> "SACHS/SEDISPORT ATB / SC-M50/55 MOUNTAIN-BIKE SPECIAL CHAIN"
>>>>
>>> Ah, yes, my memory, it must be the Sachs number that replaced whatever the
>>> sedisport was (for my Suntour ultra-6 drivetrain).
>>> pH
>> If I am going to be particular about what chains I am going to use I prefer Campy. If I want the BEST, I get Connex.
>
>
> My experience is that Campy Record chains are (much) better than the expensive Connex I used once. I have no time or feel like to compare all tipes of chains or tires. It is Campy Record chains and Continental GP 5000 tires for me and done with it. I make an exception for my cross bike in the mud. Boy, it was muddy last Sunday after all the rain last week. There I use Shimano 105 chains. They are worn after 1500 km no matter what.
>
> Lou
>

IIRC the first Campagnolo branded chain was the C9 (made by
Wippermann). Don't recall a Campagnolo 8 chain.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 7:12:18 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/18/2023 10:42 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 5:07:07 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 8:41:21 PM UTC-8, pH wrote:
> >>> On 2023-01-14, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 23:24:53 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 1/13/2023 8:17 PM, pH wrote:
> >>>>>> So what is the best approximation of my old fave, the Sedisport MM-55, these
> >>>>>> days?
> >>>>>> pH in Aptos
> >>>>
> >>>>> Sorry can't help. MM-55?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Original Sedisport, the first interrupted plate bushingless
> >>>>> chain, is a Sedis 4L (I have a couple of my personal stash
> >>>>> nearby at the moment. It replaced the legendary Sedis 4D.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just a guess(tm), but I think he might mean this chain:
> >>>>
> >>>> <http://www.bikepro.com/products/chains/sachs-sedis.html>
> >>>> "SACHS/SEDISPORT ATB / SC-M50/55 MOUNTAIN-BIKE SPECIAL CHAIN"
> >>>>
> >>> Ah, yes, my memory, it must be the Sachs number that replaced whatever the
> >>> sedisport was (for my Suntour ultra-6 drivetrain).
> >>> pH
> >> If I am going to be particular about what chains I am going to use I prefer Campy. If I want the BEST, I get Connex.
> >
> >
> > My experience is that Campy Record chains are (much) better than the expensive Connex I used once. I have no time or feel like to compare all tipes of chains or tires. It is Campy Record chains and Continental GP 5000 tires for me and done with it. I make an exception for my cross bike in the mud. Boy, it was muddy last Sunday after all the rain last week. There I use Shimano 105 chains. They are worn after 1500 km no matter what.
> >
> > Lou
> >
> IIRC the first Campagnolo branded chain was the C9 (made by
> Wippermann). Don't recall a Campagnolo 8 chain.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

If I recall correctly it was a Rohloff chain. C9 was also a great chain.

Lou