I have a defective LCD monitor here.
It has two xtals inside. HC49 thru hole.
they have something printed on the can.

Number one:
TXC G
14.3EF19

Number two:
TXC G
20ARG95

It does not match any part numbers
on the TXC website.

I would like to know f, tolerance and load cap.
Thank you.

On a sunny day (Fri, 27 Aug 2021 18:46:27 +0200) it happened Johann Klammer
<klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote in <sgb4tg$1mk6$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

>I have a defective LCD monitor here.
>It has two xtals inside. HC49 thru hole.
>they have something printed on the can.
>
>Number one:
>TXC G
>14.3EF19

Could be 14.3 MHz
do you have a shortwave radio? listen for carrier there?

A frequency counter helps too!

>Number two:
>TXC G
>20ARG95

20 MHz?
>I would like to know f,
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/freq_pic/

>It does not match any part on the TXC website.

>tolerance and load cap.

Yea, that is more difficult,

Johann Klammer wrote:
====================
> I have a defective LCD monitor here.
> It has two xtals inside. HC49 thru hole.
> they have something printed on the can.
>
> Number one:
> TXC G
> 14.3EF19
>
> Number two:
> TXC G
> 20ARG95
>
> It does not match any part numbers
> on the TXC website.
>
> I would like to know f, tolerance and load cap.

** Why ?????

Likely they are nothing special at all.

Just regular clock frequency X-tals,

...... Phil

On 27/08/2021 17:59, Jan Panteltje wrote:

<snipped>

> On a sunny day (Fri, 27 Aug 2021 18:46:27 +0200) it happened Johann Klammer
> <klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote in <sgb4tg$1mk6$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>
>> I have a defective LCD monitor here.
>> It has two xtals inside. HC49 thru hole.
>> they have something printed on the can.
>>
>> Number one:
>> TXC G
>> 14.3EF19
>
> Could be 14.3 MHz

Yes, 14.3 MHz is something to do with NTSC, it is (or was) a very common
crystal.

--
Cheers
Clive

Clive Arthur wrote:
=================
> Yes, 14.3 MHz is something to do with NTSC, it is (or was) a very common
> crystal.
>

** Very close to 4 times the color burst frequency.
3.579545 MHz

For a long time the *cheapest* crystal you could buy in stores.
Got one in my home brew frequency counter.

...... Phil

On 08/28/2021 11:09 AM, Clive Arthur wrote:
> On 27/08/2021 17:59, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>
>> On a sunny day (Fri, 27 Aug 2021 18:46:27 +0200) it happened Johann Klammer
>> <klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote in <sgb4tg$1mk6$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>>
>>> I have a defective LCD monitor here.
>>> It has two xtals inside. HC49 thru hole.
>>> they have something printed on the can.
>>>
>>> Number one:
>>> TXC G
>>> 14.3EF19
>>
>> Could be 14.3 MHz
>
> Yes, 14.3 MHz is something to do with NTSC, it is (or was) a very common crystal.
>
Does that have more digits after the three, coz I can not seem
to find exactly 14.3M at any distributor.

lørdag den 28. august 2021 kl. 16.15.52 UTC+2 skrev Johann Klammer:
> On 08/28/2021 11:09 AM, Clive Arthur wrote:
> > On 27/08/2021 17:59, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >
> > <snipped>
> >
> >> On a sunny day (Fri, 27 Aug 2021 18:46:27 +0200) it happened Johann Klammer
> >> <klam...@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote in <sgb4tg$1mk6$1...@gioia.aioe.org>:
> >>
> >>> I have a defective LCD monitor here.
> >>> It has two xtals inside. HC49 thru hole.
> >>> they have something printed on the can.
> >>>
> >>> Number one:
> >>> TXC G
> >>> 14.3EF19
> >>
> >> Could be 14.3 MHz
> >
> > Yes, 14.3 MHz is something to do with NTSC, it is (or was) a very common crystal.
> >
> Does that have more digits after the three, coz I can not seem
> to find exactly 14.3M at any distributor.

14.31818 (4*3.579545 )

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 18:46:27 +0200, Johann Klammer
<klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote:

>I have a defective LCD monitor here.
>It has two xtals inside. HC49 thru hole.
>they have something printed on the can.
>
>Number one:
>TXC G
>14.3EF19
>
>Number two:
>TXC G
>20ARG95
>
>It does not match any part numbers
>on the TXC website.
>
>I would like to know f, tolerance and load cap.
>Thank you.

You should associate the parts with their application.
These days, that generally means the ASIC they're
tied to. Look up the chip numbers and typical app
notes.

RL

On a sunny day (Sat, 28 Aug 2021 16:15:34 +0200) it happened Johann Klammer
<klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote in <sgdgeh$3ik$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

>On 08/28/2021 11:09 AM, Clive Arthur wrote:
>> On 27/08/2021 17:59, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>
>> <snipped>
>>
>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 27 Aug 2021 18:46:27 +0200) it happened Johann Klammer
>>> <klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote in <sgb4tg$1mk6$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>>>
>>>> I have a defective LCD monitor here.
>>>> It has two xtals inside. HC49 thru hole.
>>>> they have something printed on the can.
>>>>
>>>> Number one:
>>>> TXC G
>>>> 14.3EF19
>>>
>>> Could be 14.3 MHz
>>
>> Yes, 14.3 MHz is something to do with NTSC, it is (or was) a very common crystal.
>>
>Does that have more digits after the three, coz I can not seem
>to find exactly 14.3M at any distributor.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/152877695069
10 for 4$30
many sellers have these

On a sunny day (Sat, 28 Aug 2021 16:15:34 +0200) it happened Johann Klammer
<klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote in <sgdgeh$3ik$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

>Does that have more digits after the three, coz I can not seem
>to find exactly 14.3M at any distributor.

PS
I have no idea what you are trying to do, but the probability of such crystals being defective in that application is close to zero.
Better tell us what you are doing, and what test equipment and experience you have, multimeter, scope, etc.

On 08/28/2021 06:04 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Sat, 28 Aug 2021 16:15:34 +0200) it happened Johann Klammer
> <klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote in <sgdgeh$3ik$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>
>> Does that have more digits after the three, coz I can not seem
>> to find exactly 14.3M at any distributor.
>
> PS
> I have no idea what you are trying to do, but the probability of such crystals being defective in that application is close to zero.
> Better tell us what you are doing, and what test equipment and experience you have, multimeter, scope, etc.
>
Hefty Phase noise onscreen. esp at low resolutions. I guess the caps have gone bad.
But while I'm at it I'll just swap the xtals aswell.

On a sunny day (Sat, 28 Aug 2021 18:41:16 +0200) it happened Johann Klammer
<klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote in <sgdovm$1ocg$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

>On 08/28/2021 06:04 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sat, 28 Aug 2021 16:15:34 +0200) it happened Johann Klammer
>> <klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote in <sgdgeh$3ik$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>>
>>> Does that have more digits after the three, coz I can not seem
>>> to find exactly 14.3M at any distributor.
>>
>> PS
>> I have no idea what you are trying to do, but the probability of such crystals being defective in that application is close to
>> zero.
>> Better tell us what you are doing, and what test equipment and experience you have, multimeter, scope, etc.
>>
>Hefty Phase noise onscreen. esp at low resolutions. I guess the caps have gone bad.
>But while I'm at it I'll just swap the xtals aswell.

Hard to tell, most often it is electrolytics, supply filtering.

If you have a scope you can check the ripple voltage,
else sometimes you can put one of the same value in parallel, if that helps it was the cap.

Johann Klammer wrote:
=======================
> Hefty Phase noise onscreen. esp at low resolutions. I guess the caps have gone bad.
> But while I'm at it I'll just swap the xtals aswell.

** You are watching NTSC color TV ?

Where ?

..... Phil

On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 18:41:16 +0200, Johann Klammer
<klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote:

>On 08/28/2021 06:04 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sat, 28 Aug 2021 16:15:34 +0200) it happened Johann Klammer
>> <klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote in <sgdgeh$3ik$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>>
>>> Does that have more digits after the three, coz I can not seem
>>> to find exactly 14.3M at any distributor.
>>
>> PS
>> I have no idea what you are trying to do, but the probability of such crystals being defective in that application is close to zero.
>> Better tell us what you are doing, and what test equipment and experience you have, multimeter, scope, etc.
>>
>Hefty Phase noise onscreen. esp at low resolutions. I guess the caps have gone bad.
>But while I'm at it I'll just swap the xtals aswell.

Why would you touch, let alone replace, something that's almost 100%
sure to be working with something that may or may not work?

This kind of thing is why nobody wants to touch a "repair" that
someone else has had an unsuccessful go at.
--
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

On a sunny day (Sat, 28 Aug 2021 16:58:23 -0400) it happened Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in
<eo8lig1kimf33ohdlhfl6alq4tnf37kgrg@4ax.com>:

>On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 18:41:16 +0200, Johann Klammer
><klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote:
>
>>On 08/28/2021 06:04 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Sat, 28 Aug 2021 16:15:34 +0200) it happened Johann Klammer
>>> <klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote in <sgdgeh$3ik$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>>>
>>>> Does that have more digits after the three, coz I can not seem
>>>> to find exactly 14.3M at any distributor.
>>>
>>> PS
>>> I have no idea what you are trying to do, but the probability of such crystals being defective in that application is close
>>> to zero.
>>> Better tell us what you are doing, and what test equipment and experience you have, multimeter, scope, etc.
>>>
>>Hefty Phase noise onscreen. esp at low resolutions. I guess the caps have gone bad.
>>But while I'm at it I'll just swap the xtals aswell.
>
>Why would you touch, let alone replace, something that's almost 100%
>sure to be working with something that may or may not work?
>
>This kind of thing is why nobody wants to touch a "repair" that
>someone else has had an unsuccessful go at.

Anecdote
Once had to help somebody repairing TVs.
He had one that had been around for ages and did not have color.
So I asked: What exactly did you do?
He replied: Replaced every component in the color circuit but one! it did not help.
So, I asked: Which one did you not replace?
He replied: That coil, measured it, it was not interrupted, so put it back.
I looked at the circuit diagram and that coil had, in the metal can it was in, a capacitor in parallel (tuned to the color carrier).
So soldered out that cap, it had a short!
Replaced the cap, customer so happy he finally got the thing back..
10 minutes ;-)

Jan Panteltje wrote:
================
> Anecdote
> Once had to help somebody repairing TVs.
> He had one that had been around for ages and did not have color.
> So I asked: What exactly did you do?
> He replied: Replaced every component in the color circuit but one! it did not help.
> So, I asked: Which one did you not replace?
> He replied: That coil, measured it, it was not interrupted, so put it back.
> I looked at the circuit diagram and that coil had, in the metal can it was in, a capacitor in parallel (tuned to the color carrier).
> So soldered out that cap, it had a short!
> Replaced the cap, customer so happy he finally got the thing back..
> 10 minutes ;-)

** Nice going.

Only one ever came across a dead, HC49 crystal.
In the Rx of a 30MHz radio control receiver.

The Rx was tied to the chassis of a 1/10 scale racing car that used a 3.5cc nitro / methanol 2-stroke engine.
The engine revved in the 30,000rpm range

Must have resonated mechanically with the mounting springs of the crystal.
Cos when cut open, it was no attached to the springs any more.

...... Phil

On a sunny day (Sat, 28 Aug 2021 23:52:17 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Phil
Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
<30f6533b-6124-4b56-bb93-ca034597e57dn@googlegroups.com>:

> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>================
>> Anecdote
>> Once had to help somebody repairing TVs.
>> He had one that had been around for ages and did not have color.
>> So I asked: What exactly did you do?
>> He replied: Replaced every component in the color circuit but one! it did not help.
>> So, I asked: Which one did you not replace?
>> He replied: That coil, measured it, it was not interrupted, so put it back.
>> I looked at the circuit diagram and that coil had, in the metal can it was in, a capacitor in parallel (tuned to the color
>> carrier).
>> So soldered out that cap, it had a short!
>> Replaced the cap, customer so happy he finally got the thing back..
>> 10 minutes ;-)
>
> ** Nice going.
>
>Only one ever came across a dead, HC49 crystal.
>In the Rx of a 30MHz radio control receiver.
>
>The Rx was tied to the chassis of a 1/10 scale racing car that used a 3.5cc nitro / methanol 2-stroke engine.
>The engine revved in the 30,000rpm range
>
>Must have resonated mechanically with the mounting springs of the crystal.
>Cos when cut open, it was no attached to the springs any more.

I had a big crystal from some surplus army set in my school days that I used for all sorts of experiments.
After soldering it in projects many times, one of the wires came lose, so you could turn it.
That in turn rotated the little golden wire to a golden surface plating on the actually crystal and it ripped off.
Managed to open the crystal and fix it (xtal was about 7 MHz IIRC).
Some are even simpler:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator

You can also modify the frequency of quarts crystal:
https://hackaday.com/2010/05/10/hack-your-crystals-frequency/

You can pull those quite far by changing the circuit capacitance too.
That is how those quartz PLL circuits work, like for example that in the color carrier locking NTSC and PAL.

And then there are overtone modes:
https://www.jauch.com/blog/en/how-does-an-overtone-quartz-work/
and much more.
I have heard, but not confirmed, that real audiophiles can tap a crystal and hear the frequency, just like a tuning fork...
;-)

On 2021-08-30 11:35, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Sat, 28 Aug 2021 23:52:17 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Phil
> Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
> <30f6533b-6124-4b56-bb93-ca034597e57dn@googlegroups.com>:
>
>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> ================
>>> Anecdote
>>> Once had to help somebody repairing TVs.
>>> He had one that had been around for ages and did not have color.
>>> So I asked: What exactly did you do?
>>> He replied: Replaced every component in the color circuit but one! it did not help.
>>> So, I asked: Which one did you not replace?
>>> He replied: That coil, measured it, it was not interrupted, so put it back.
>>> I looked at the circuit diagram and that coil had, in the metal can it was in, a capacitor in parallel (tuned to the color
>>> carrier).
>>> So soldered out that cap, it had a short!
>>> Replaced the cap, customer so happy he finally got the thing back..
>>> 10 minutes ;-)
>>
>> ** Nice going.
>>
>> Only one ever came across a dead, HC49 crystal.
>> In the Rx of a 30MHz radio control receiver.
>>
>> The Rx was tied to the chassis of a 1/10 scale racing car that used a 3.5cc nitro / methanol 2-stroke engine.
>> The engine revved in the 30,000rpm range
>>
>> Must have resonated mechanically with the mounting springs of the crystal.
>> Cos when cut open, it was no attached to the springs any more.
>
> I had a big crystal from some surplus army set in my school days that I used for all sorts of experiments.
> After soldering it in projects many times, one of the wires came lose, so you could turn it.
> That in turn rotated the little golden wire to a golden surface plating on the actually crystal and it ripped off.
> Managed to open the crystal and fix it (xtal was about 7 MHz IIRC).
> Some are even simpler:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator
>
> You can also modify the frequency of quarts crystal:
> https://hackaday.com/2010/05/10/hack-your-crystals-frequency/
>
> You can pull those quite far by changing the circuit capacitance too.
> That is how those quartz PLL circuits work, like for example that in the color carrier locking NTSC and PAL.
>
> And then there are overtone modes:
> https://www.jauch.com/blog/en/how-does-an-overtone-quartz-work/
> and much more.

That's a very poor article. No picture to illustrate how the crystal
vibrates on an overtone, nothing about overtone oscillator design,
except for the vague 'resonant circuit to amplify the overtone'.
The guy even seems to think that 'applying a voltage' is enough to
make the crystal oscillate. No hint about the difference between an
overtone and a harmonic, either. Pretty much useless.

Jeroen Belleman

On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Aug 2021 14:28:07 +0200) it happened Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <sgiisn$1gka$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

>On 2021-08-30 11:35, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sat, 28 Aug 2021 23:52:17 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Phil
>> Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
>> <30f6533b-6124-4b56-bb93-ca034597e57dn@googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> ================
>>>> Anecdote
>>>> Once had to help somebody repairing TVs.
>>>> He had one that had been around for ages and did not have color.
>>>> So I asked: What exactly did you do?
>>>> He replied: Replaced every component in the color circuit but one! it did not help.
>>>> So, I asked: Which one did you not replace?
>>>> He replied: That coil, measured it, it was not interrupted, so put it back.
>>>> I looked at the circuit diagram and that coil had, in the metal can it was in, a capacitor in parallel (tuned to the color
>>>> carrier).
>>>> So soldered out that cap, it had a short!
>>>> Replaced the cap, customer so happy he finally got the thing back..
>>>> 10 minutes ;-)
>>>
>>> ** Nice going.
>>>
>>> Only one ever came across a dead, HC49 crystal.
>>> In the Rx of a 30MHz radio control receiver.
>>>
>>> The Rx was tied to the chassis of a 1/10 scale racing car that used a 3.5cc nitro / methanol 2-stroke engine.
>>> The engine revved in the 30,000rpm range
>>>
>>> Must have resonated mechanically with the mounting springs of the crystal.
>>> Cos when cut open, it was no attached to the springs any more.
>>
>> I had a big crystal from some surplus army set in my school days that I used for all sorts of experiments.
>> After soldering it in projects many times, one of the wires came lose, so you could turn it.
>> That in turn rotated the little golden wire to a golden surface plating on the actually crystal and it ripped off.
>> Managed to open the crystal and fix it (xtal was about 7 MHz IIRC).
>> Some are even simpler:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator
>>
>> You can also modify the frequency of quarts crystal:
>> https://hackaday.com/2010/05/10/hack-your-crystals-frequency/
>>
>> You can pull those quite far by changing the circuit capacitance too.
>> That is how those quartz PLL circuits work, like for example that in the color carrier locking NTSC and PAL.
>>
>> And then there are overtone modes:
>> https://www.jauch.com/blog/en/how-does-an-overtone-quartz-work/
>> and much more.
>
>That's a very poor article. No picture to illustrate how the crystal
>vibrates on an overtone, nothing about overtone oscillator design,
>except for the vague 'resonant circuit to amplify the overtone'.
>The guy even seems to think that 'applying a voltage' is enough to
>make the crystal oscillate. No hint about the difference between an
>overtone and a harmonic, either. Pretty much useless.
>
>Jeroen Belleman

It is left to the inteligent reader to guggle for more in depth info.
Or read the book I am working on:
"The Fart Of Electronics"
BTW what happeend to Winfield?

Jan Panteltje wrote:
==================
> It is left to the inteligent reader to guggle for more in depth info.
> Or read the book I am working on:
> "The Fart Of Electronics"

** ROTFLMFAO !!!

> BTW what happeend to Winfield?

** The posturing, pommy "gong beater" picked up his spherical football and shuffled off home.

Never to return......

...... Phil

On 2021-08-30 15:12, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Aug 2021 14:28:07 +0200) it happened Jeroen Belleman
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <sgiisn$1gka$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>
>> On 2021-08-30 11:35, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Sat, 28 Aug 2021 23:52:17 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Phil
>>> Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> <30f6533b-6124-4b56-bb93-ca034597e57dn@googlegroups.com>:
>>>
>>>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> ================
>>>>> Anecdote
>>>>> Once had to help somebody repairing TVs.
>>>>> He had one that had been around for ages and did not have color.
>>>>> So I asked: What exactly did you do?
>>>>> He replied: Replaced every component in the color circuit but one! it did not help.
>>>>> So, I asked: Which one did you not replace?
>>>>> He replied: That coil, measured it, it was not interrupted, so put it back.
>>>>> I looked at the circuit diagram and that coil had, in the metal can it was in, a capacitor in parallel (tuned to the color
>>>>> carrier).
>>>>> So soldered out that cap, it had a short!
>>>>> Replaced the cap, customer so happy he finally got the thing back..
>>>>> 10 minutes ;-)
>>>>
>>>> ** Nice going.
>>>>
>>>> Only one ever came across a dead, HC49 crystal.
>>>> In the Rx of a 30MHz radio control receiver.
>>>>
>>>> The Rx was tied to the chassis of a 1/10 scale racing car that used a 3.5cc nitro / methanol 2-stroke engine.
>>>> The engine revved in the 30,000rpm range
>>>>
>>>> Must have resonated mechanically with the mounting springs of the crystal.
>>>> Cos when cut open, it was no attached to the springs any more.
>>>
>>> I had a big crystal from some surplus army set in my school days that I used for all sorts of experiments.
>>> After soldering it in projects many times, one of the wires came lose, so you could turn it.
>>> That in turn rotated the little golden wire to a golden surface plating on the actually crystal and it ripped off.
>>> Managed to open the crystal and fix it (xtal was about 7 MHz IIRC).
>>> Some are even simpler:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator
>>>
>>> You can also modify the frequency of quarts crystal:
>>> https://hackaday.com/2010/05/10/hack-your-crystals-frequency/
>>>
>>> You can pull those quite far by changing the circuit capacitance too.
>>> That is how those quartz PLL circuits work, like for example that in the color carrier locking NTSC and PAL.
>>>
>>> And then there are overtone modes:
>>> https://www.jauch.com/blog/en/how-does-an-overtone-quartz-work/
>>> and much more.
>>
>> That's a very poor article. No picture to illustrate how the crystal
>> vibrates on an overtone, nothing about overtone oscillator design,
>> except for the vague 'resonant circuit to amplify the overtone'.
>> The guy even seems to think that 'applying a voltage' is enough to
>> make the crystal oscillate. No hint about the difference between an
>> overtone and a harmonic, either. Pretty much useless.
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman
>
> It is left to the inteligent reader to guggle for more in depth info.
> Or read the book I am working on:
> "The Fart Of Electronics"
> BTW what happeend to Winfield?
>

I wouldn't mind a discussion about quartz oscillators here. Much better
than the endless OT bickering.

I think Win is fine. I saw a message here not so long ago saying so.

Jeroen Belleman

On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:27:19 +0200) it happened Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <sgj4dn$uvg$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

>>>> That in turn rotated the little golden wire to a golden surface plating on the actually crystal and it ripped off.
>>>> Managed to open the crystal and fix it (xtal was about 7 MHz IIRC).
>>>> Some are even simpler:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator
>>>>
>>>> You can also modify the frequency of quarts crystal:
>>>> https://hackaday.com/2010/05/10/hack-your-crystals-frequency/
>>>>
>>>> You can pull those quite far by changing the circuit capacitance too.
>>>> That is how those quartz PLL circuits work, like for example that in the color carrier locking NTSC and PAL.
>>>>
>>>> And then there are overtone modes:
>>>> https://www.jauch.com/blog/en/how-does-an-overtone-quartz-work/
>>>> and much more.
>>>
>>> That's a very poor article. No picture to illustrate how the crystal
>>> vibrates on an overtone, nothing about overtone oscillator design,
>>> except for the vague 'resonant circuit to amplify the overtone'.
>>> The guy even seems to think that 'applying a voltage' is enough to
>>> make the crystal oscillate. No hint about the difference between an
>>> overtone and a harmonic, either. Pretty much useless.
>>>
>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>
>> It is left to the inteligent reader to guggle for more in depth info.
>> Or read the book I am working on:
>> "The Fart Of Electronics"
>> BTW what happeend to Winfield?
>>
>
>I wouldn't mind a discussion about quartz oscillators here.

Googling finds this link for overtone oscilator design, with some math:
https://www5.epsondevice.com/en/information/technical_info/crystal/circuit.html

and this for the axis and vibration modes:
https://www.analogictips.com/mechanical-vibration-for-electronics-the-quartz-crystal/
that links to his paper:
http://www.tfc.co.uk/pdfs/the_piezoelectric_effect_tfc.pdf

Piezo electric effect is very interesting, I designed and build an utrasonic antifauling thing
for boats using piezzo transducers
http://panteltje.com/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_circuit_diagram_IMG_5144.JPG
http://panteltje.com/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_OLED_running_5120.avi

And did experiments with 44 kHz piezos to measure airspeed:
http://panteltje.com/pub/44kHz_radar_time_of_flight_test_in_wind_tunnel_IMG_4105.JPG
http://panteltje.com/pub/44kHz_Doppler_phase_change_in_wind_tunnel_with_vane_MVI_4113.AVI

I did a doppler system with those 44 kHz tranceivers that could detect if you blinked your eye.
Then there is the usual distance meters (echo time) cheap from ebay.

And then where I encountered it was in the PAL 4.43 MHz delay lines for color TV,
piece of glass:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/Ultrasonicdelayline.jpg/440px-Ultrasonicdelayline.jpg

I remember building a system to put color in a cheap Philips BW tape recorder,
demonstrated it at work..
That system used 64 us delay lines to store red, green, blue.

Ayways crystals and piezos everywhere here...

For more precise timing I have a rubidium 10MHz generator..

Some stuff for discussion perhaps.

In article <sgjc4j$qi5$1@dont-email.me>, pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com
says...
>
> Ayways crystals and piezos everywhere here...
>
>

Too bad that most of the crystal makers have gone out of business.
Unless you need one that is used in thousands of devices you will pay
over $ 50 for one cut to your needs. They used to be relative
inexpensive but with all the two way radios only needing one or two
common ones instead of a dozen or so that were specially made not much
volume or money to be made any more.

On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Aug 2021 16:21:28 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery
<rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in
<MPG.3b9707d12f07f1469899fc@news.eternal-september.org>:

>In article <sgjc4j$qi5$1@dont-email.me>, pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com
>says...
>>
>> Ayways crystals and piezos everywhere here...
>>
>>
>
>Too bad that most of the crystal makers have gone out of business.
>Unless you need one that is used in thousands of devices you will pay
>over $ 50 for one cut to your needs. They used to be relative
>inexpensive but with all the two way radios only needing one or two
>common ones instead of a dozen or so that were specially made not much
>volume or money to be made any more.

Yes, PLL chips into the GHz using 10 MHz reference....
OTOH a lot of xtal is on ebay / China.

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 3:39:05 PM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
> Googling finds this link for overtone oscilator design, with some math:
> https://www5.epsondevice.com/en/information/technical_info/crystal/circuit.html
>
> and this for the axis and vibration modes:
> https://www.analogictips.com/mechanical-vibration-for-electronics-the-quartz-crystal/
> that links to his paper:
> http://www.tfc.co.uk/pdfs/the_piezoelectric_effect_tfc.pdf
>
> Piezo electric effect is very interesting, I designed and build an utrasonic antifauling thing
> for boats using piezzo transducers
> http://panteltje.com/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_circuit_diagram_IMG_5144..JPG
> http://panteltje.com/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_OLED_running_5120.avi
>
>
> And did experiments with 44 kHz piezos to measure airspeed:
> http://panteltje.com/pub/44kHz_radar_time_of_flight_test_in_wind_tunnel_IMG_4105.JPG
> http://panteltje.com/pub/44kHz_Doppler_phase_change_in_wind_tunnel_with_vane_MVI_4113.AVI
>
> I did a doppler system with those 44 kHz tranceivers that could detect if you blinked your eye.
> Then there is the usual distance meters (echo time) cheap from ebay.
>
> And then where I encountered it was in the PAL 4.43 MHz delay lines for color TV,
> piece of glass:
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/Ultrasonicdelayline.jpg/440px-Ultrasonicdelayline.jpg
>
> I remember building a system to put color in a cheap Philips BW tape recorder,
> demonstrated it at work..
> That system used 64 us delay lines to store red, green, blue.
>
> Ayways crystals and piezos everywhere here...
>
> For more precise timing I have a rubidium 10MHz generator..
>
I have a GPS derived 10MHz Frequency standard, and a 32 output DA with a DC to 350 MHz bandwidth, it was a video DA for HD video that I converted to 50 ohms. It used the same ICs that I had designed into my circuit, and was in a rack ount case for the price of a couple new ICs.
The GPS unit also outputs time code for computer networks.