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tech / rec.crafts.metalworking / Re: WAS: HardAir -: BRAG Worlds Most Powerful Semi Automatic Air Gun

SubjectAuthor
* HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
+* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
|`* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
| `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
|  `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
|   `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
|    `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
|     `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
|      `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
|       `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
|        `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
|         `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
|          `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
|           `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
|            `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
|             `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
|              `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
|               `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
|                `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
|                 `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
|                  `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
|                   `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
|                    +- Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
|                    `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
|                     `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
|                      `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
|                       `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
|                        `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
|                         `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
|                          `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
|                           `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
|                            `* Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserLeon Fisk
|                             `- Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaserBob La Londe
`* WAS: HardAir -: BRAG Worlds Most Powerful Semi Automatic Air GunBob La Londe
 `- Re: WAS: HardAir -: BRAG Worlds Most Powerful Semi Automatic AirLeon Fisk

Pages:12
Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser

<u0ko3n$3vkma$2@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=7311&group=rec.crafts.metalworking#7311

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: lfis...@gmail.invalid (Leon Fisk)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2023 17:12:01 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Leon Fisk - Wed, 5 Apr 2023 21:12 UTC

On Wed, 5 Apr 2023 13:43:53 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>
>I think I might airgun hunt more if I had a high cap bullpup in .25 like
>my Kalibri. PCPs tend to be on the heavy side making off hand shooting
>a little harder. A bullpup design moves the weight back towards the
>body. Still heavy, but better weight distribution.

There were some Walther Reign Bullpups in .25 on the bay the other day.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=walther+bullpup

They've received decent reviews in all three UK Airgun Magazines I've
read. Not saying much though, kinda think those review guns have had a
good going through before the reviewers ever see them...

That's one of the least expensive named pups I've seen. Lots of new
pups coming online lately per the UK magazines <shrug>

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser

<u0mt25$dvqt$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=7312&group=rec.crafts.metalworking#7312

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2023 09:47:00 -0700
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 by: Bob La Londe - Thu, 6 Apr 2023 16:47 UTC

On 4/5/2023 2:12 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Apr 2023 13:43:53 -0700
> Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> I think I might airgun hunt more if I had a high cap bullpup in .25 like
>> my Kalibri. PCPs tend to be on the heavy side making off hand shooting
>> a little harder. A bullpup design moves the weight back towards the
>> body. Still heavy, but better weight distribution.
>
> There were some Walther Reign Bullpups in .25 on the bay the other day.
>
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=walther+bullpup
>
> They've received decent reviews in all three UK Airgun Magazines I've
> read. Not saying much though, kinda think those review guns have had a
> good going through before the reviewers ever see them...
>
> That's one of the least expensive named pups I've seen. Lots of new
> pups coming online lately per the UK magazines <shrug>
>

Oh, I don't know about that. Its less power than my Marauder .25. I
guess if I want to hunt with it I'll just have to carry shooting sticks.
Plus I'm cheap.

--
Bob La Londe
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
real machinist

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: lfis...@gmail.invalid (Leon Fisk)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2023 17:22:06 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Leon Fisk - Thu, 6 Apr 2023 21:22 UTC

On Thu, 6 Apr 2023 09:47:00 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>
>Oh, I don't know about that. Its less power than my Marauder .25. I
>guess if I want to hunt with it I'll just have to carry shooting sticks.
> Plus I'm cheap.

Oh I think I'd be a good competitor for matching your "cheap" ;-)

I took a look at the Pyramyd reviews and they managed to piss off a lot
guys by importing a crippled version compared to what's selling in the
UK. This second version was sounding pretty decent (for the $) when I
was reading about it as the UK version. So many of the Bullpups are just
too darn heavy in my opinion and well over $1000😑 The FX guns have the
power and weight in the NICE range but so expensive...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser

<u0pgkl$skif$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=7318&group=rec.crafts.metalworking#7318

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Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2023 09:33:23 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Bob La Londe - Fri, 7 Apr 2023 16:33 UTC

On 4/6/2023 2:22 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Apr 2023 09:47:00 -0700
> Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> Oh, I don't know about that. Its less power than my Marauder .25. I
>> guess if I want to hunt with it I'll just have to carry shooting sticks.
>> Plus I'm cheap.
>
> Oh I think I'd be a good competitor for matching your "cheap" ;-)
>
> I took a look at the Pyramyd reviews and they managed to piss off a lot
> guys by importing a crippled version compared to what's selling in the
> UK. This second version was sounding pretty decent (for the $) when I
> was reading about it as the UK version. So many of the Bullpups are just
> too darn heavy in my opinion and well over $1000😑 The FX guns have the
> power and weight in the NICE range but so expensive...
>

Generally the bullpups are just as heavy as the full length rifles.
They just move the weight closer to the body making it easier to hold
off hand. More of the weight is supported by the shoulder and grip,
with the outboard hand stabilizing more than supporting. There is/was a
bullpup conversion for the Marauder, but at $410 (last published price)
I'm not ready to make that change. Some do not like the shorter sight
radius if shooting open sights, but if using any sort of optic its a non
issue. Even a 1x.

Some think the big negative of the bullpup design is a slightly more
complex trigger mechanism. I've only every owned one and it was a
premium (not cheap) model. I felt the trigger was quite good, so it
doesn't have to be an issue.

That bit about importing a crippled version makes no sense to me.
Usually the UK versions are the "crippled" version to meet their
stringent low power limit.

--
Bob La Londe
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
real machinist

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: lfis...@gmail.invalid (Leon Fisk)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2023 14:35:14 -0400
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 by: Leon Fisk - Fri, 7 Apr 2023 18:35 UTC

On Fri, 7 Apr 2023 09:33:23 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>
>That bit about importing a crippled version makes no sense to me.
>Usually the UK versions are the "crippled" version to meet their
>stringent low power limit.

Probably a bad description on my part, "crippled"...

They removed the barrel shroud and hard affixed a muzzle brake rather
than the moderator. Guy's say if you tear it off there are threads
underneath but it wasn't meant to be removed and if they add a
moderator it's still louder than it should be because of the missing
shroud. UK version had a Lothar barrel and it sounds like this doesn't
have that either <shrug>

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser

<u0q30k$v6gc$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=7320&group=rec.crafts.metalworking#7320

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2023 14:46:59 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Bob La Londe - Fri, 7 Apr 2023 21:46 UTC

On 4/7/2023 11:35 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Apr 2023 09:33:23 -0700
> Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> That bit about importing a crippled version makes no sense to me.
>> Usually the UK versions are the "crippled" version to meet their
>> stringent low power limit.
>
> Probably a bad description on my part, "crippled"...
>
> They removed the barrel shroud and hard affixed a muzzle brake rather
> than the moderator. Guy's say if you tear it off there are threads
> underneath but it wasn't meant to be removed and if they add a
> moderator it's still louder than it should be because of the missing
> shroud. UK version had a Lothar barrel and it sounds like this doesn't
> have that either <shrug>
>

Yeah, I saw that. I thought maybe it was to be 50 state legal since NJ
and maybe one or two other states don't allow silencers even on air
guns. However the elimination of a Lothar Walther barrel would be
pretty egregious if you still have to pay full price.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
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Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser

<u0se4b$1bc24$1@dont-email.me>

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: lfis...@gmail.invalid (Leon Fisk)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2023 15:10:47 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Leon Fisk - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 19:10 UTC

On Fri, 7 Apr 2023 14:46:59 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>
>Yeah, I saw that. I thought maybe it was to be 50 state legal since NJ
>and maybe one or two other states don't allow silencers even on air
>guns. However the elimination of a Lothar Walther barrel would be
>pretty egregious if you still have to pay full price.

I can understand the moderator problem in the US. But why not leave the
barrel shroud and have a thread protector or air stripper or brake... I
guess that's why I'm not in charge ;-)

Got through reading the Gas Ram tuning article:

https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/weihrauch-hw90-tuning-guide-how-to-do-it-what-results-to-expect/

Fascinating to see the results are more-or-less what I had expected...

It would be interesting to add a threaded spring pre-load adjustment to
a springer that had a long soft spring. Might be able to tune out the
surge and/or vibrations at pellet exit for better groups.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser

<u0sg7t$1cbcv$1@dont-email.me>

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: HardAir Magazine monthly teaser
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2023 12:45:00 -0700
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 by: Bob La Londe - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 19:45 UTC

On 4/8/2023 12:10 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Apr 2023 14:46:59 -0700
> Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> Yeah, I saw that. I thought maybe it was to be 50 state legal since NJ
>> and maybe one or two other states don't allow silencers even on air
>> guns. However the elimination of a Lothar Walther barrel would be
>> pretty egregious if you still have to pay full price.
>
> I can understand the moderator problem in the US. But why not leave the
> barrel shroud and have a thread protector or air stripper or brake... I
> guess that's why I'm not in charge ;-)
>
> Got through reading the Gas Ram tuning article:
>
> https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/weihrauch-hw90-tuning-guide-how-to-do-it-what-results-to-expect/
>
> Fascinating to see the results are more-or-less what I had expected...
>
> It would be interesting to add a threaded spring pre-load adjustment to
> a springer that had a long soft spring. Might be able to tune out the
> surge and/or vibrations at pellet exit for better groups.
>
I seem to recall that some states actually prohibited a threaded barrel
unless it has a muzzle device permanently attached in a not removeable
fashion such as welding. .
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
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WAS: HardAir -: BRAG Worlds Most Powerful Semi Automatic Air Gun

<u1jprm$33co0$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=7352&group=rec.crafts.metalworking#7352

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: WAS: HardAir -: BRAG Worlds Most Powerful Semi Automatic Air Gun
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 08:50:13 -0700
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 by: Bob La Londe - Mon, 17 Apr 2023 15:50 UTC

On 3/31/2023 11:06 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
> Paging Bob La Londe...
>
> In case you don't keep up with HardAir Magazine... link to the latest
> monthly teaser email:
>
> https://mailchi.mp/hardairmagazine/04wyzqfp6d-8481586
>
> An article on "Tuning The Benjamin Marauder For Maximum Power" might be
> of interest besides some of the new stuff coming out:
>
> https://hardairmagazine.com/ham-columns/benjamin-marauder-tuning-the-thing-almost-all-people-do-wrong/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP_GLN9R6Zs

Its obvious he is not an airgunner. Lots of discrepancies including not
documenting a power curve. Sigh, he only chronographed at the end after
using most of his air. When he showed the gage earlier it was at the
very end of the manufacturers green range and there were several more
shots...

That being said, an 81 grain pellet at 800FPS is still producing 115FPE.

I never understood hollow points in air guns. They shoot pretty much
dead soft lead, but generally the speed isn't high enough to to get
hollow point expansion. In pellets round domed tend to perform the
best, so I would assume the same with slugs.

I'm glad he makes the disclaimer worlds most powerful "production" air
rifle towards the end. There are some very talented small airgun builders.

The biggest thing in my opinion I think is the melon test. It
illustrated how much better a larger diameter projectile transfers
energy to the target. A plain old .22 powder burner developing the same
energy would have just passed right through without much damage.

All of that being said, it would be quite effective at medium short
range against a "soft target." I'd say with a round nose projectile it
would be effective against medium large soft targets at 50-75 yards. I
would consider it a deadly threat. If I had certain limitations and the
money I'd probably choose it over a cap and ball revolver. No risk of a
cap jam or powder residue costing you the critical shot. Of course the
BP CB is much cheaper and you could use a cleaner burning substitute
like 777. Yeah I play with BP sometimes as well.

--
Bob La Londe
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
real machinist

--
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Re: WAS: HardAir -: BRAG Worlds Most Powerful Semi Automatic Air Gun

<u1k53o$34nk5$1@dont-email.me>

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: lfis...@gmail.invalid (Leon Fisk)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: WAS: HardAir -: BRAG Worlds Most Powerful Semi Automatic Air
Gun
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 15:02:16 -0400
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 by: Leon Fisk - Mon, 17 Apr 2023 19:02 UTC

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 08:50:13 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>
>I never understood hollow points in air guns. They shoot pretty much
>dead soft lead, but generally the speed isn't high enough to to get
>hollow point expansion. In pellets round domed tend to perform the
>best, so I would assume the same with slugs.
>
>I'm glad he makes the disclaimer worlds most powerful "production" air
>rifle towards the end. There are some very talented small airgun builders.

Interesting video. Agree that he left a lot out. Seems like he's
trying to get people to watch MORE videos ;-)

Gary Wain, who writes for Airgun World has done quite a bit of testing
using domed, hollow and weird pellets. He uses a two chrono set up with
a block of terracotta wax in between. So he gets entrance and exit FPS
speeds. Then calculates how much energy was given up. One problem with
the hollow points is they often fail his accuracy test. This seems like
a lot better way to test and make comparisons...

A blurb extracted from Airgun World Sept 2022, in case you can scrounge
a copy:

"TESTING
As usual, all pellets will be shot from the
same Daystate Pulsar airgun, at a distance of
about 20m. Testing is separated into two
stages, accuracy, and terminal ballistic
performance. To determine the latter, each
pellet will be shot into a 40mm thick block of
warmed terracotta wax, with chronographs
being positioned to record entry and exit
values for both energy and velocity. On this
occasion, I also chose to shoot both the
Terminator and the Destroyer into a single
large block of wax, in order to understand the
differences between these two pellets better,
and to retrieve the pellets and examine the
degree of resultant expansion.
With the exception of the H&N Terminator,
which grouped at just over 13mm, all the
other pellets produced groups in the region
of 9mm, the best of which was the JSB
Hades, which produced a group of 8.35mm.
As you can see, all the pellets fell inside the
20mm cut-off, which enabled all four to go
through to the ballistic stage of the testing."

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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