On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 8:06:21 AM UTC, Ralph Barone wrote:
> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 02:32:44 -0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
> > <ra...@invalid.com> wrote:
> >
> >> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:27:13 -0500, Catrike Rider
> >>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Alec Baldwin has been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust”
> >>>> shooting which left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> >>>>
> >>>> New Mexico prosecutors charged both Baldwin and armorer Hannah
> >>>> Gutierrez-Reed with two federal counts of involuntary manslaughter
> >>>> over the death of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust” film set in October
> >>>> 2021, when a real bullet was loaded into a prop gun. Alec Baldwin has
> >>>> been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust” shooting which
> >>>> left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> >>>>
> >>>> After a thorough review of the evidence and the laws of the state of
> >>>> New Mexico, I have determined that there is sufficient evidence to
> >>>> file criminal charges against Alec Baldwin and other members of the
> >>>> ‘Rust’ film crew,” Carmack-Altwies said. On my watch, no one is above
> >>>> the law, and everyone deserves justice.”
> >>>>
> >>>> Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the loaded gun,
> >>>> accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal.
> >>>>
> >>>> The long-awaited decision to charge the “30 Rock” star and three
> >>>> others came after a meticulous investigation revealed all bore
> >>>> responsibility for the shooting that killed married mom Halyna
> >>>> Hutchins, 42 and injured Joel Souza, 49.
> >>>>
> >>>> Each defendant will get a preliminary court hearing within 60 days to
> >>>> determine if there is probable cause to go to trial, prosecutors
> >>>> said.
> >>>>
> >>>> While Carmack-Altwies previously acknowledged Baldwin was responsible
> >>>> for firing the fatal round, she said “many individuals” on-set had
> >>>> handled the gun prior to the tragedy and could be criminally liable.
> >>>>
> >>>> During the initial investigation, detectives from the Santa Fe
> >>>> Sheriff’s Office said they found a mixture of dummy and live rounds
> >>>> scattered throughout the set, which is a violation of industry safety
> >>>> standards. At the time, Carmack-Altwies said determining how the live
> >>>> rounds got to the set “will be one of the most important factors going
> >>>> into a charging decision.”
> >>>>
> >>>> The crew member in charge of ammo and weapons on set, armorer Hannah
> >>>> Gutierrez-Reed, has repeatedly denied responsibility for the shooting.
> >>>> In January, she filed suit against the props company that supplied the
> >>>> rounds, alleging they sold blanks and lives mixed together.
> >>>>
> >>>> At the time of the shooting, Baldwin was sitting on a pew in a mock
> >>>> church at the Bonanza Creek Ranch rehearsing a cross draw as Hutchins
> >>>> and Souza stood behind the camera.
> >>>>
> >>>> As he rehearsed, he pulled out the gun, pointed it directly at the
> >>>> camera and fired a single bullet that struck both Hutchins and Souza..
> >>>>
> >>>> The Emmy winner has repeatedly denied pulling the trigger, saying the
> >>>> gun went off accidentally, but an FBI forensic report released in
> >>>> August concluded the firearm couldn’t have gone off unless someone
> >>>> pulled the trigger.
> >>>>
> >>>> Souza told police he recalled hearing the phrase “cold gun” while
> >>>> preparing for the scene, indicating the firearm wasn’t loaded and was
> >>>> safe for use, but he couldn’t remember if the gun had been checked
> >>>> before it was handed to Baldwin.
> >>>>
> >>>> More at:
> >>>> https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> If you pick up or are handed a gun, the first thing you do is check if
> >>>> it's loaded. If you don't know how to check, you don't touch it, or
> >>>> assume that it's loaded. At any rate you always handle a gun loaded or
> >>>> not, as if it's loaded.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> One thing I wonder about. There is a very distinct difference between
> >>> "blank" cartridges and "loaded" cartridges both in appearance and in
> >>> weight. Sufficiently that it seems very odd that anyone could mix them
> >>> up.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Actors are typically hired for their acting skills, not for their knowledge
> >> of munitions. While Baldwin may have pulled the trigger, set safety should
> >> not rely on an actor being able to differentiate a loaded cartridge from a
> >> blank.
> >
> > But I thought that they were complaining that the Armorer was at
> > fault, which I had assumed implied that she was the one that had
> > missed the difference between "blank" and "live" ammunition.
> >
> > But, being an actor doesn't necessarily indicate that he was ignorant
> > regarding firearms.
> Being an actor doesn’t indicate that he was ignorant regarding firearms,
> but if you are JUST an actor (and not the producer, as Andrew corrected me
> on), then you are not obligated to be a firearms expert, in which case “I
> didn’t know the gun was loaded” is not a best practice, but at least a
> plausible defence.
>
It seems to me that Baldwin was throwing his considerable weight around when he refused to return the live cartridges to the production company which previously rented that pistol. (The other production management acted cautiously and correctly, and may thereby avoid liability.) That's already a massive liability on Baldwin, which could give the production's insurance an out. It is also proof that Baldwin knew there were live bullets on the set. And that's the prosecutor's case made. "And yet, knowing there were live bullets on set, he pointed a loaded firearm at a person? I ask you, members of the jury!"
>
Andre Jute
Clear thinker.
>

On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 6:32:49 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:27:13 -0500, Catrike Rider
> > <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Alec Baldwin has been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust”
> >> shooting which left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> >>
> >> New Mexico prosecutors charged both Baldwin and armorer Hannah
> >> Gutierrez-Reed with two federal counts of involuntary manslaughter
> >> over the death of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust” film set in October
> >> 2021, when a real bullet was loaded into a prop gun. Alec Baldwin has
> >> been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust” shooting which
> >> left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> >>
> >> After a thorough review of the evidence and the laws of the state of
> >> New Mexico, I have determined that there is sufficient evidence to
> >> file criminal charges against Alec Baldwin and other members of the
> >> ‘Rust’ film crew,” Carmack-Altwies said. On my watch, no one is above
> >> the law, and everyone deserves justice.”
> >>
> >> Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the loaded gun,
> >> accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal.
> >>
> >> The long-awaited decision to charge the “30 Rock” star and three
> >> others came after a meticulous investigation revealed all bore
> >> responsibility for the shooting that killed married mom Halyna
> >> Hutchins, 42 and injured Joel Souza, 49.
> >>
> >> Each defendant will get a preliminary court hearing within 60 days to
> >> determine if there is probable cause to go to trial, prosecutors
> >> said.
> >>
> >> While Carmack-Altwies previously acknowledged Baldwin was responsible
> >> for firing the fatal round, she said “many individuals” on-set had
> >> handled the gun prior to the tragedy and could be criminally liable.
> >>
> >> During the initial investigation, detectives from the Santa Fe
> >> Sheriff’s Office said they found a mixture of dummy and live rounds
> >> scattered throughout the set, which is a violation of industry safety
> >> standards. At the time, Carmack-Altwies said determining how the live
> >> rounds got to the set “will be one of the most important factors going
> >> into a charging decision.”
> >>
> >> The crew member in charge of ammo and weapons on set, armorer Hannah
> >> Gutierrez-Reed, has repeatedly denied responsibility for the shooting.
> >> In January, she filed suit against the props company that supplied the
> >> rounds, alleging they sold blanks and lives mixed together.
> >>
> >> At the time of the shooting, Baldwin was sitting on a pew in a mock
> >> church at the Bonanza Creek Ranch rehearsing a cross draw as Hutchins
> >> and Souza stood behind the camera.
> >>
> >> As he rehearsed, he pulled out the gun, pointed it directly at the
> >> camera and fired a single bullet that struck both Hutchins and Souza.
> >>
> >> The Emmy winner has repeatedly denied pulling the trigger, saying the
> >> gun went off accidentally, but an FBI forensic report released in
> >> August concluded the firearm couldn’t have gone off unless someone
> >> pulled the trigger.
> >>
> >> Souza told police he recalled hearing the phrase “cold gun” while
> >> preparing for the scene, indicating the firearm wasn’t loaded and was
> >> safe for use, but he couldn’t remember if the gun had been checked
> >> before it was handed to Baldwin.
> >>
> >> More at:
> >> https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/
> >>
> >>
> >> If you pick up or are handed a gun, the first thing you do is check if
> >> it's loaded. If you don't know how to check, you don't touch it, or
> >> assume that it's loaded. At any rate you always handle a gun loaded or
> >> not, as if it's loaded.
> >>
> >
> > One thing I wonder about. There is a very distinct difference between
> > "blank" cartridges and "loaded" cartridges both in appearance and in
> > weight. Sufficiently that it seems very odd that anyone could mix them
> > up.
> >
> Actors are typically hired for their acting skills, not for their knowledge
> of munitions. While Baldwin may have pulled the trigger, set safety should
> not rely on an actor being able to differentiate a loaded cartridge from a
> blank.
Actor or not he was NOT supposed to fire that gun actually at someone. John knows that as well as Catrike. The camera angles are supposed to be set so that you cannot tell that they are not firing directly at each other.

On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 1:05:42 AM UTC-8, Mike A Schwab wrote:
> On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 6:27:40 PM UTC-6, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 07:07:35 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:27:13 -0500, Catrike Rider
> > ><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>Alec Baldwin has been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust”
> > >>shooting which left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday..
> > >>
> > >>New Mexico prosecutors charged both Baldwin and armorer Hannah
> > >>Gutierrez-Reed with two federal counts of involuntary manslaughter
> > >>over the death of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust” film set in October
> > >>2021, when a real bullet was loaded into a prop gun. Alec Baldwin has
> > >>been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust” shooting which
> > >>left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> > >>
> > >>After a thorough review of the evidence and the laws of the state of
> > >>New Mexico, I have determined that there is sufficient evidence to
> > >>file criminal charges against Alec Baldwin and other members of the
> > >>‘Rust’ film crew,” Carmack-Altwies said. On my watch, no one is above
> > >>the law, and everyone deserves justice.”
> > >>
> > >>Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the loaded gun,
> > >>accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal.
> > >>
> > >>The long-awaited decision to charge the “30 Rock” star and three
> > >>others came after a meticulous investigation revealed all bore
> > >>responsibility for the shooting that killed married mom Halyna
> > >>Hutchins, 42 and injured Joel Souza, 49.
> > >>
> > >>Each defendant will get a preliminary court hearing within 60 days to
> > >>determine if there is probable cause to go to trial, prosecutors
> > >>said.
> > >>
> > >>While Carmack-Altwies previously acknowledged Baldwin was responsible
> > >>for firing the fatal round, she said “many individuals” on-set had
> > >>handled the gun prior to the tragedy and could be criminally liable.
> > >>
> > >>During the initial investigation, detectives from the Santa Fe
> > >>Sheriff’s Office said they found a mixture of dummy and live rounds
> > >>scattered throughout the set, which is a violation of industry safety
> > >>standards. At the time, Carmack-Altwies said determining how the live
> > >>rounds got to the set “will be one of the most important factors going
> > >>into a charging decision.”
> > >>
> > >>The crew member in charge of ammo and weapons on set, armorer Hannah
> > >>Gutierrez-Reed, has repeatedly denied responsibility for the shooting..
> > >>In January, she filed suit against the props company that supplied the
> > >>rounds, alleging they sold blanks and lives mixed together.
> > >>
> > >>At the time of the shooting, Baldwin was sitting on a pew in a mock
> > >>church at the Bonanza Creek Ranch rehearsing a cross draw as Hutchins
> > >>and Souza stood behind the camera.
> > >>
> > >>As he rehearsed, he pulled out the gun, pointed it directly at the
> > >>camera and fired a single bullet that struck both Hutchins and Souza.
> > >>
> > >>The Emmy winner has repeatedly denied pulling the trigger, saying the
> > >>gun went off accidentally, but an FBI forensic report released in
> > >>August concluded the firearm couldn’t have gone off unless someone
> > >>pulled the trigger.
> > >>
> > >>Souza told police he recalled hearing the phrase “cold gun” while
> > >>preparing for the scene, indicating the firearm wasn’t loaded and was
> > >>safe for use, but he couldn’t remember if the gun had been checked
> > >>before it was handed to Baldwin.
> > >>
> > >>More at:
> > >>https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>If you pick up or are handed a gun, the first thing you do is check if
> > >>it's loaded. If you don't know how to check, you don't touch it, or
> > >>assume that it's loaded. At any rate you always handle a gun loaded or
> > >>not, as if it's loaded.
> > >>
> > >
> > >One thing I wonder about. There is a very distinct difference between
> > >"blank" cartridges and "loaded" cartridges both in appearance and in
> > >weight. Sufficiently that it seems very odd that anyone could mix them
> > >up.
> > I think they also have dummy cartridges that look like the real ones
> > but don't fire. I doubt all the cartridges on Roy Roger's gun belt
> > were real. I have no idea how you tell the difference but I sure as
> > hell wouldn't handle without knowing... being 100% sure.
> >
> > At any rate, Baldwin claimed he didn't pull the trigger, but I
> > understand that the gun had a firing pin lock, which prevented firing
> > unless the trigger has been pulled.
> Baldwin pull back the hammer and was slowly letting it back. Apparently not slow enough, when it touched the round the casing ignited firing the bullet.
Think about what you just said Mike. A primer has to be hit hard to ignite.

On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 6:46:42 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 8:06:21 AM UTC, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 02:32:44 -0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
> > > <ra...@invalid.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:27:13 -0500, Catrike Rider
> > >>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Alec Baldwin has been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust”
> > >>>> shooting which left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> New Mexico prosecutors charged both Baldwin and armorer Hannah
> > >>>> Gutierrez-Reed with two federal counts of involuntary manslaughter
> > >>>> over the death of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust” film set in October
> > >>>> 2021, when a real bullet was loaded into a prop gun. Alec Baldwin has
> > >>>> been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust” shooting which
> > >>>> left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> After a thorough review of the evidence and the laws of the state of
> > >>>> New Mexico, I have determined that there is sufficient evidence to
> > >>>> file criminal charges against Alec Baldwin and other members of the
> > >>>> ‘Rust’ film crew,” Carmack-Altwies said. On my watch, no one is above
> > >>>> the law, and everyone deserves justice.”
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the loaded gun,
> > >>>> accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The long-awaited decision to charge the “30 Rock” star and three
> > >>>> others came after a meticulous investigation revealed all bore
> > >>>> responsibility for the shooting that killed married mom Halyna
> > >>>> Hutchins, 42 and injured Joel Souza, 49.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Each defendant will get a preliminary court hearing within 60 days to
> > >>>> determine if there is probable cause to go to trial, prosecutors
> > >>>> said.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> While Carmack-Altwies previously acknowledged Baldwin was responsible
> > >>>> for firing the fatal round, she said “many individuals” on-set had
> > >>>> handled the gun prior to the tragedy and could be criminally liable.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> During the initial investigation, detectives from the Santa Fe
> > >>>> Sheriff’s Office said they found a mixture of dummy and live rounds
> > >>>> scattered throughout the set, which is a violation of industry safety
> > >>>> standards. At the time, Carmack-Altwies said determining how the live
> > >>>> rounds got to the set “will be one of the most important factors going
> > >>>> into a charging decision.”
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The crew member in charge of ammo and weapons on set, armorer Hannah
> > >>>> Gutierrez-Reed, has repeatedly denied responsibility for the shooting.
> > >>>> In January, she filed suit against the props company that supplied the
> > >>>> rounds, alleging they sold blanks and lives mixed together.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> At the time of the shooting, Baldwin was sitting on a pew in a mock
> > >>>> church at the Bonanza Creek Ranch rehearsing a cross draw as Hutchins
> > >>>> and Souza stood behind the camera.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> As he rehearsed, he pulled out the gun, pointed it directly at the
> > >>>> camera and fired a single bullet that struck both Hutchins and Souza.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The Emmy winner has repeatedly denied pulling the trigger, saying the
> > >>>> gun went off accidentally, but an FBI forensic report released in
> > >>>> August concluded the firearm couldn’t have gone off unless someone
> > >>>> pulled the trigger.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Souza told police he recalled hearing the phrase “cold gun” while
> > >>>> preparing for the scene, indicating the firearm wasn’t loaded and was
> > >>>> safe for use, but he couldn’t remember if the gun had been checked
> > >>>> before it was handed to Baldwin.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> More at:
> > >>>> https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If you pick up or are handed a gun, the first thing you do is check if
> > >>>> it's loaded. If you don't know how to check, you don't touch it, or
> > >>>> assume that it's loaded. At any rate you always handle a gun loaded or
> > >>>> not, as if it's loaded.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> One thing I wonder about. There is a very distinct difference between
> > >>> "blank" cartridges and "loaded" cartridges both in appearance and in
> > >>> weight. Sufficiently that it seems very odd that anyone could mix them
> > >>> up.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Actors are typically hired for their acting skills, not for their knowledge
> > >> of munitions. While Baldwin may have pulled the trigger, set safety should
> > >> not rely on an actor being able to differentiate a loaded cartridge from a
> > >> blank.
> > >
> > > But I thought that they were complaining that the Armorer was at
> > > fault, which I had assumed implied that she was the one that had
> > > missed the difference between "blank" and "live" ammunition.
> > >
> > > But, being an actor doesn't necessarily indicate that he was ignorant
> > > regarding firearms.
> > Being an actor doesn’t indicate that he was ignorant regarding firearms,
> > but if you are JUST an actor (and not the producer, as Andrew corrected me
> > on), then you are not obligated to be a firearms expert, in which case “I
> > didn’t know the gun was loaded” is not a best practice, but at least a
> > plausible defence.
> >
> It seems to me that Baldwin was throwing his considerable weight around when he refused to return the live cartridges to the production company which previously rented that pistol. (The other production management acted cautiously and correctly, and may thereby avoid liability.) That's already a massive liability on Baldwin, which could give the production's insurance an out. It is also proof that Baldwin knew there were live bullets on the set.. And that's the prosecutor's case made. "And yet, knowing there were live bullets on set, he pointed a loaded firearm at a person? I ask you, members of the jury!"
> >
> Andre Jute
> Clear thinker.
> >
It is astonishing to me that it took so long to charge him.

On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 7:38:19 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 6:46:42 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 8:06:21 AM UTC, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > > John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 02:32:44 -0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
> > > > <ra...@invalid.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:27:13 -0500, Catrike Rider
> > > >>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Alec Baldwin has been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust”
> > > >>>> shooting which left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> New Mexico prosecutors charged both Baldwin and armorer Hannah
> > > >>>> Gutierrez-Reed with two federal counts of involuntary manslaughter
> > > >>>> over the death of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust” film set in October
> > > >>>> 2021, when a real bullet was loaded into a prop gun. Alec Baldwin has
> > > >>>> been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust” shooting which
> > > >>>> left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> After a thorough review of the evidence and the laws of the state of
> > > >>>> New Mexico, I have determined that there is sufficient evidence to
> > > >>>> file criminal charges against Alec Baldwin and other members of the
> > > >>>> ‘Rust’ film crew,” Carmack-Altwies said. On my watch, no one is above
> > > >>>> the law, and everyone deserves justice.”
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the loaded gun,
> > > >>>> accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The long-awaited decision to charge the “30 Rock” star and three
> > > >>>> others came after a meticulous investigation revealed all bore
> > > >>>> responsibility for the shooting that killed married mom Halyna
> > > >>>> Hutchins, 42 and injured Joel Souza, 49.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Each defendant will get a preliminary court hearing within 60 days to
> > > >>>> determine if there is probable cause to go to trial, prosecutors
> > > >>>> said.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> While Carmack-Altwies previously acknowledged Baldwin was responsible
> > > >>>> for firing the fatal round, she said “many individuals” on-set had
> > > >>>> handled the gun prior to the tragedy and could be criminally liable.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> During the initial investigation, detectives from the Santa Fe
> > > >>>> Sheriff’s Office said they found a mixture of dummy and live rounds
> > > >>>> scattered throughout the set, which is a violation of industry safety
> > > >>>> standards. At the time, Carmack-Altwies said determining how the live
> > > >>>> rounds got to the set “will be one of the most important factors going
> > > >>>> into a charging decision.”
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The crew member in charge of ammo and weapons on set, armorer Hannah
> > > >>>> Gutierrez-Reed, has repeatedly denied responsibility for the shooting.
> > > >>>> In January, she filed suit against the props company that supplied the
> > > >>>> rounds, alleging they sold blanks and lives mixed together.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> At the time of the shooting, Baldwin was sitting on a pew in a mock
> > > >>>> church at the Bonanza Creek Ranch rehearsing a cross draw as Hutchins
> > > >>>> and Souza stood behind the camera.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> As he rehearsed, he pulled out the gun, pointed it directly at the
> > > >>>> camera and fired a single bullet that struck both Hutchins and Souza.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The Emmy winner has repeatedly denied pulling the trigger, saying the
> > > >>>> gun went off accidentally, but an FBI forensic report released in
> > > >>>> August concluded the firearm couldn’t have gone off unless someone
> > > >>>> pulled the trigger.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Souza told police he recalled hearing the phrase “cold gun” while
> > > >>>> preparing for the scene, indicating the firearm wasn’t loaded and was
> > > >>>> safe for use, but he couldn’t remember if the gun had been checked
> > > >>>> before it was handed to Baldwin.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> More at:
> > > >>>> https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> If you pick up or are handed a gun, the first thing you do is check if
> > > >>>> it's loaded. If you don't know how to check, you don't touch it, or
> > > >>>> assume that it's loaded. At any rate you always handle a gun loaded or
> > > >>>> not, as if it's loaded.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> One thing I wonder about. There is a very distinct difference between
> > > >>> "blank" cartridges and "loaded" cartridges both in appearance and in
> > > >>> weight. Sufficiently that it seems very odd that anyone could mix them
> > > >>> up.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Actors are typically hired for their acting skills, not for their knowledge
> > > >> of munitions. While Baldwin may have pulled the trigger, set safety should
> > > >> not rely on an actor being able to differentiate a loaded cartridge from a
> > > >> blank.
> > > >
> > > > But I thought that they were complaining that the Armorer was at
> > > > fault, which I had assumed implied that she was the one that had
> > > > missed the difference between "blank" and "live" ammunition.
> > > >
> > > > But, being an actor doesn't necessarily indicate that he was ignorant
> > > > regarding firearms.
> > > Being an actor doesn’t indicate that he was ignorant regarding firearms,
> > > but if you are JUST an actor (and not the producer, as Andrew corrected me
> > > on), then you are not obligated to be a firearms expert, in which case “I
> > > didn’t know the gun was loaded” is not a best practice, but at least a
> > > plausible defence.
> > >
> > It seems to me that Baldwin was throwing his considerable weight around when he refused to return the live cartridges to the production company which previously rented that pistol. (The other production management acted cautiously and correctly, and may thereby avoid liability.) That's already a massive liability on Baldwin, which could give the production's insurance an out. It is also proof that Baldwin knew there were live bullets on the set. And that's the prosecutor's case made. "And yet, knowing there were live bullets on set, he pointed a loaded firearm at a person? I ask you, members of the jury!"
> > >
> > Andre Jute
> > Clear thinker.
> > >
> It is astonishing to me that it took so long to charge him.

I should also add that "blanks" are not actually non-firing casings, They have to go "BANG" to seem real. This means that they have a primer and a powder load in them. Then have to have sufficient power behind them to push that "bullet" clear of the barrel, or a second shot could blow the gun up in the user's hand. This is why you DON'T point a gun at anyone blanks or not. It is astonishing to me that people that know ZERO about guns would comment on them. Blanks are dangerous. If they hit you in the chest they hurt and if they hit you in the eye they could blind you. None of the actors that played quick draw cowboys knew where they were aiming so they did not aim at the other actors, They used camera angles to make it appear that they were shooting at someone.

Am 21.01.2023 um 10:46 schrieb Catrike Rider:
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 01:15:06 -0800 (PST), Mike A Schwab
> <mike.a.schwab@gmail.com> wrote:

>> https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0382149/?ref_=tt_cl_t_1
>> Actor had a gun with blanks. Didn't follow rule of a minimum distance between gun and other objects. Held against his skull and pulled trigger, blowing a chunk of skull through his brain. I really liked his previous show, Voyages 1982-3, where he and a kid travel through time with a watch.
>
> Morons and guns don't mix well.

That's probably the reason why most developed countries other than the
USA do not allow selling guns to morons.

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 15:17:27 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:

>Am 21.01.2023 um 10:46 schrieb Catrike Rider:
>> On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 01:15:06 -0800 (PST), Mike A Schwab
>> <mike.a.schwab@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0382149/?ref_=tt_cl_t_1
>>> Actor had a gun with blanks. Didn't follow rule of a minimum distance between gun and other objects. Held against his skull and pulled trigger, blowing a chunk of skull through his brain. I really liked his previous show, Voyages 1982-3, where he and a kid travel through time with a watch.
>>
>> Morons and guns don't mix well.
>
>That's probably the reason why most developed countries other than the
>USA do not allow selling guns to morons.

Same here in the USA, but morons like Alec Baldwin still manage to get
their hands on them...

On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 9:53:50 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/20/2023 8:32 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:27:13 -0500, Catrike Rider
> >> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Alec Baldwin has been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust”
> >>> shooting which left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday..
> >>>
> >>> New Mexico prosecutors charged both Baldwin and armorer Hannah
> >>> Gutierrez-Reed with two federal counts of involuntary manslaughter
> >>> over the death of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust” film set in October
> >>> 2021, when a real bullet was loaded into a prop gun. Alec Baldwin has
> >>> been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust” shooting which
> >>> left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> >>>
> >>> After a thorough review of the evidence and the laws of the state of
> >>> New Mexico, I have determined that there is sufficient evidence to
> >>> file criminal charges against Alec Baldwin and other members of the
> >>> ‘Rust’ film crew,” Carmack-Altwies said. On my watch, no one is above
> >>> the law, and everyone deserves justice.”
> >>>
> >>> Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the loaded gun,
> >>> accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal.
> >>>
> >>> The long-awaited decision to charge the “30 Rock” star and three
> >>> others came after a meticulous investigation revealed all bore
> >>> responsibility for the shooting that killed married mom Halyna
> >>> Hutchins, 42 and injured Joel Souza, 49.
> >>>
> >>> Each defendant will get a preliminary court hearing within 60 days to
> >>> determine if there is probable cause to go to trial, prosecutors
> >>> said.
> >>>
> >>> While Carmack-Altwies previously acknowledged Baldwin was responsible
> >>> for firing the fatal round, she said “many individuals” on-set had
> >>> handled the gun prior to the tragedy and could be criminally liable.
> >>>
> >>> During the initial investigation, detectives from the Santa Fe
> >>> Sheriff’s Office said they found a mixture of dummy and live rounds
> >>> scattered throughout the set, which is a violation of industry safety
> >>> standards. At the time, Carmack-Altwies said determining how the live
> >>> rounds got to the set “will be one of the most important factors going
> >>> into a charging decision.”
> >>>
> >>> The crew member in charge of ammo and weapons on set, armorer Hannah
> >>> Gutierrez-Reed, has repeatedly denied responsibility for the shooting..
> >>> In January, she filed suit against the props company that supplied the
> >>> rounds, alleging they sold blanks and lives mixed together.
> >>>
> >>> At the time of the shooting, Baldwin was sitting on a pew in a mock
> >>> church at the Bonanza Creek Ranch rehearsing a cross draw as Hutchins
> >>> and Souza stood behind the camera.
> >>>
> >>> As he rehearsed, he pulled out the gun, pointed it directly at the
> >>> camera and fired a single bullet that struck both Hutchins and Souza.
> >>>
> >>> The Emmy winner has repeatedly denied pulling the trigger, saying the
> >>> gun went off accidentally, but an FBI forensic report released in
> >>> August concluded the firearm couldn’t have gone off unless someone
> >>> pulled the trigger.
> >>>
> >>> Souza told police he recalled hearing the phrase “cold gun” while
> >>> preparing for the scene, indicating the firearm wasn’t loaded and was
> >>> safe for use, but he couldn’t remember if the gun had been checked
> >>> before it was handed to Baldwin.
> >>>
> >>> More at:
> >>> https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> If you pick up or are handed a gun, the first thing you do is check if
> >>> it's loaded. If you don't know how to check, you don't touch it, or
> >>> assume that it's loaded. At any rate you always handle a gun loaded or
> >>> not, as if it's loaded.
> >>>
> >>
> >> One thing I wonder about. There is a very distinct difference between
> >> "blank" cartridges and "loaded" cartridges both in appearance and in
> >> weight. Sufficiently that it seems very odd that anyone could mix them
> >> up.
> >>
> >
> > Actors are typically hired for their acting skills, not for their knowledge
> > of munitions. While Baldwin may have pulled the trigger, set safety should
> > not rely on an actor being able to differentiate a loaded cartridge from a
> > blank.
> >
> Yes, that's right.
>
> He's more than an actor in this venture, he's the producer.
> In that capacity, he hired a novice (=less expensive)
> armorer. There's also the matter of live cartridges on set,
> from a prior production, which Mr Baldwin refused to return
> when asked. Add in occasional plinking in the desert by cast
> members (exactly who? I don't know) during breaks.
>
> Messy all around. It will be arduous to sort out the
> relevant facts.
>
> To your point, Mr Baldwin has maintained he 'never pulled
> the trigger' but FBI analysis shows that is not possible in
> a Colt Single Action Army. So why would he say that? Another
> confounding set of conflicting items.
>
> I do not yet have an opinion. I think it's prudent to
> reserve judgement for a while yet.
>
> For the interested reader, Colt Single Action Army is a bit
> different from modern pistol designs:
>
> https://www.bevfitchett.us/colt-army-revolver/hammer-positions.html
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Baldwin wasn't _the_ producer, he was _a_ producer, one of several. According to IMDB the credited producers on the film were Alec Baldwin, Matt DelPiano, Ryan Donnell Smith, Anjul Nigam, Ryan Winterstern, and Nathan Klingher.. Producers in this capacity are more like investors. The contribute money to the project, and depending on their level of investment and contractual agreement, may have anywhere from no say at all into the production up to casting and scripting decisions. It isn't likely someone at Baldwins level have much input at all into hiring the armorer or any other member of the crew.

On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 10:02:23 AM UTC-5, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 15:17:27 +0100, Rolf Mantel
> <ne...@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>
> >Am 21.01.2023 um 10:46 schrieb Catrike Rider:
> >> On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 01:15:06 -0800 (PST), Mike A Schwab
> >> <mike.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0382149/?ref_=tt_cl_t_1
> >>> Actor had a gun with blanks. Didn't follow rule of a minimum distance between gun and other objects. Held against his skull and pulled trigger, blowing a chunk of skull through his brain. I really liked his previous show, Voyages 1982-3, where he and a kid travel through time with a watch.
> >>
> >> Morons and guns don't mix well.
> >
> >That's probably the reason why most developed countries other than the
> >USA do not allow selling guns to morons.
> Same here in the USA, but morons like Alec Baldwin still manage to get
> their hands on them...

Consider yourself lucky. If they actually enforced those laws you would certainly be excluded from owning a weapon.

On 1/23/2023 9:25 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 9:53:50 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/20/2023 8:32 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:27:13 -0500, Catrike Rider
>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Alec Baldwin has been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust”
>>>>> shooting which left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
>>>>>
>>>>> New Mexico prosecutors charged both Baldwin and armorer Hannah
>>>>> Gutierrez-Reed with two federal counts of involuntary manslaughter
>>>>> over the death of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust” film set in October
>>>>> 2021, when a real bullet was loaded into a prop gun. Alec Baldwin has
>>>>> been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust” shooting which
>>>>> left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
>>>>>
>>>>> After a thorough review of the evidence and the laws of the state of
>>>>> New Mexico, I have determined that there is sufficient evidence to
>>>>> file criminal charges against Alec Baldwin and other members of the
>>>>> ‘Rust’ film crew,” Carmack-Altwies said. On my watch, no one is above
>>>>> the law, and everyone deserves justice.”
>>>>>
>>>>> Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the loaded gun,
>>>>> accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal.
>>>>>
>>>>> The long-awaited decision to charge the “30 Rock” star and three
>>>>> others came after a meticulous investigation revealed all bore
>>>>> responsibility for the shooting that killed married mom Halyna
>>>>> Hutchins, 42 and injured Joel Souza, 49.
>>>>>
>>>>> Each defendant will get a preliminary court hearing within 60 days to
>>>>> determine if there is probable cause to go to trial, prosecutors
>>>>> said.
>>>>>
>>>>> While Carmack-Altwies previously acknowledged Baldwin was responsible
>>>>> for firing the fatal round, she said “many individuals” on-set had
>>>>> handled the gun prior to the tragedy and could be criminally liable.
>>>>>
>>>>> During the initial investigation, detectives from the Santa Fe
>>>>> Sheriff’s Office said they found a mixture of dummy and live rounds
>>>>> scattered throughout the set, which is a violation of industry safety
>>>>> standards. At the time, Carmack-Altwies said determining how the live
>>>>> rounds got to the set “will be one of the most important factors going
>>>>> into a charging decision.”
>>>>>
>>>>> The crew member in charge of ammo and weapons on set, armorer Hannah
>>>>> Gutierrez-Reed, has repeatedly denied responsibility for the shooting.
>>>>> In January, she filed suit against the props company that supplied the
>>>>> rounds, alleging they sold blanks and lives mixed together.
>>>>>
>>>>> At the time of the shooting, Baldwin was sitting on a pew in a mock
>>>>> church at the Bonanza Creek Ranch rehearsing a cross draw as Hutchins
>>>>> and Souza stood behind the camera.
>>>>>
>>>>> As he rehearsed, he pulled out the gun, pointed it directly at the
>>>>> camera and fired a single bullet that struck both Hutchins and Souza.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Emmy winner has repeatedly denied pulling the trigger, saying the
>>>>> gun went off accidentally, but an FBI forensic report released in
>>>>> August concluded the firearm couldn’t have gone off unless someone
>>>>> pulled the trigger.
>>>>>
>>>>> Souza told police he recalled hearing the phrase “cold gun” while
>>>>> preparing for the scene, indicating the firearm wasn’t loaded and was
>>>>> safe for use, but he couldn’t remember if the gun had been checked
>>>>> before it was handed to Baldwin.
>>>>>
>>>>> More at:
>>>>> https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you pick up or are handed a gun, the first thing you do is check if
>>>>> it's loaded. If you don't know how to check, you don't touch it, or
>>>>> assume that it's loaded. At any rate you always handle a gun loaded or
>>>>> not, as if it's loaded.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One thing I wonder about. There is a very distinct difference between
>>>> "blank" cartridges and "loaded" cartridges both in appearance and in
>>>> weight. Sufficiently that it seems very odd that anyone could mix them
>>>> up.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Actors are typically hired for their acting skills, not for their knowledge
>>> of munitions. While Baldwin may have pulled the trigger, set safety should
>>> not rely on an actor being able to differentiate a loaded cartridge from a
>>> blank.
>>>
>> Yes, that's right.
>>
>> He's more than an actor in this venture, he's the producer.
>> In that capacity, he hired a novice (=less expensive)
>> armorer. There's also the matter of live cartridges on set,
>> from a prior production, which Mr Baldwin refused to return
>> when asked. Add in occasional plinking in the desert by cast
>> members (exactly who? I don't know) during breaks.
>>
>> Messy all around. It will be arduous to sort out the
>> relevant facts.
>>
>> To your point, Mr Baldwin has maintained he 'never pulled
>> the trigger' but FBI analysis shows that is not possible in
>> a Colt Single Action Army. So why would he say that? Another
>> confounding set of conflicting items.
>>
>> I do not yet have an opinion. I think it's prudent to
>> reserve judgement for a while yet.
>>
>> For the interested reader, Colt Single Action Army is a bit
>> different from modern pistol designs:
>>
>> https://www.bevfitchett.us/colt-army-revolver/hammer-positions.html

>
> Baldwin wasn't _the_ producer, he was _a_ producer, one of several. According to IMDB the credited producers on the film were Alec Baldwin, Matt DelPiano, Ryan Donnell Smith, Anjul Nigam, Ryan Winterstern, and Nathan Klingher. Producers in this capacity are more like investors. The contribute money to the project, and depending on their level of investment and contractual agreement, may have anywhere from no say at all into the production up to casting and scripting decisions. It isn't likely someone at Baldwins level have much input at all into hiring the armorer or any other member of the crew.
>

Thank you.
I did not realize that 'producer' is a committee.

Still and all, this is not a simple case and woe to the jury.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 7:56:49 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/23/2023 9:25 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 9:53:50 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 1/20/2023 8:32 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> >>> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:27:13 -0500, Catrike Rider
> >>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Alec Baldwin has been criminally charged in connection with the “Rustâ€
> >>>>> shooting which left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> New Mexico prosecutors charged both Baldwin and armorer Hannah
> >>>>> Gutierrez-Reed with two federal counts of involuntary manslaughter
> >>>>> over the death of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust†film set in October
> >>>>> 2021, when a real bullet was loaded into a prop gun. Alec Baldwin has
> >>>>> been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust†shooting which
> >>>>> left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> After a thorough review of the evidence and the laws of the state of
> >>>>> New Mexico, I have determined that there is sufficient evidence to
> >>>>> file criminal charges against Alec Baldwin and other members of the
> >>>>> ‘Rust’ film crew,†Carmack-Altwies said. On my watch, no one is above
> >>>>> the law, and everyone deserves justice.â€
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the loaded gun,
> >>>>> accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The long-awaited decision to charge the “30 Rock†star and three
> >>>>> others came after a meticulous investigation revealed all bore
> >>>>> responsibility for the shooting that killed married mom Halyna
> >>>>> Hutchins, 42 and injured Joel Souza, 49.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Each defendant will get a preliminary court hearing within 60 days to
> >>>>> determine if there is probable cause to go to trial, prosecutors
> >>>>> said.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> While Carmack-Altwies previously acknowledged Baldwin was responsible
> >>>>> for firing the fatal round, she said “many individuals†on-set had
> >>>>> handled the gun prior to the tragedy and could be criminally liable..
> >>>>>
> >>>>> During the initial investigation, detectives from the Santa Fe
> >>>>> Sheriff’s Office said they found a mixture of dummy and live rounds
> >>>>> scattered throughout the set, which is a violation of industry safety
> >>>>> standards. At the time, Carmack-Altwies said determining how the live
> >>>>> rounds got to the set “will be one of the most important factors going
> >>>>> into a charging decision.â€
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The crew member in charge of ammo and weapons on set, armorer Hannah
> >>>>> Gutierrez-Reed, has repeatedly denied responsibility for the shooting.
> >>>>> In January, she filed suit against the props company that supplied the
> >>>>> rounds, alleging they sold blanks and lives mixed together.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At the time of the shooting, Baldwin was sitting on a pew in a mock
> >>>>> church at the Bonanza Creek Ranch rehearsing a cross draw as Hutchins
> >>>>> and Souza stood behind the camera.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As he rehearsed, he pulled out the gun, pointed it directly at the
> >>>>> camera and fired a single bullet that struck both Hutchins and Souza.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Emmy winner has repeatedly denied pulling the trigger, saying the
> >>>>> gun went off accidentally, but an FBI forensic report released in
> >>>>> August concluded the firearm couldn’t have gone off unless someone
> >>>>> pulled the trigger.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Souza told police he recalled hearing the phrase “cold gun†while
> >>>>> preparing for the scene, indicating the firearm wasn’t loaded and was
> >>>>> safe for use, but he couldn’t remember if the gun had been checked
> >>>>> before it was handed to Baldwin.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> More at:
> >>>>> https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you pick up or are handed a gun, the first thing you do is check if
> >>>>> it's loaded. If you don't know how to check, you don't touch it, or
> >>>>> assume that it's loaded. At any rate you always handle a gun loaded or
> >>>>> not, as if it's loaded.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> One thing I wonder about. There is a very distinct difference between
> >>>> "blank" cartridges and "loaded" cartridges both in appearance and in
> >>>> weight. Sufficiently that it seems very odd that anyone could mix them
> >>>> up.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Actors are typically hired for their acting skills, not for their knowledge
> >>> of munitions. While Baldwin may have pulled the trigger, set safety should
> >>> not rely on an actor being able to differentiate a loaded cartridge from a
> >>> blank.
> >>>
> >> Yes, that's right.
> >>
> >> He's more than an actor in this venture, he's the producer.
> >> In that capacity, he hired a novice (=less expensive)
> >> armorer. There's also the matter of live cartridges on set,
> >> from a prior production, which Mr Baldwin refused to return
> >> when asked. Add in occasional plinking in the desert by cast
> >> members (exactly who? I don't know) during breaks.
> >>
> >> Messy all around. It will be arduous to sort out the
> >> relevant facts.
> >>
> >> To your point, Mr Baldwin has maintained he 'never pulled
> >> the trigger' but FBI analysis shows that is not possible in
> >> a Colt Single Action Army. So why would he say that? Another
> >> confounding set of conflicting items.
> >>
> >> I do not yet have an opinion. I think it's prudent to
> >> reserve judgement for a while yet.
> >>
> >> For the interested reader, Colt Single Action Army is a bit
> >> different from modern pistol designs:
> >>
> >> https://www.bevfitchett.us/colt-army-revolver/hammer-positions.html
>
> >
> > Baldwin wasn't _the_ producer, he was _a_ producer, one of several. According to IMDB the credited producers on the film were Alec Baldwin, Matt DelPiano, Ryan Donnell Smith, Anjul Nigam, Ryan Winterstern, and Nathan Klingher. Producers in this capacity are more like investors. The contribute money to the project, and depending on their level of investment and contractual agreement, may have anywhere from no say at all into the production up to casting and scripting decisions. It isn't likely someone at Baldwins level have much input at all into hiring the armorer or any other member of the crew.
> >
> Thank you.
> I did not realize that 'producer' is a committee.
>
> Still and all, this is not a simple case and woe to the jury.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

This reminds me of that Scharf trick of proving me wring about the $123 roast by only showing the first half of the sales bulletin. That there are several producers doesn't mean much if Baldwin hired the armorer and gave her orders and if she was incompetent and he was too stupid to know that. So as usual Flunky, like Liebermann, is an expert at all he surveys which is nothing at all.

On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 10:53:10 PM UTC, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 7:56:49 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 1/23/2023 9:25 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 9:53:50 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > >> On 1/20/2023 8:32 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > >>> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:27:13 -0500, Catrike Rider
> > >>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Alec Baldwin has been criminally charged in connection with the “Rustâ€
> > >>>>> shooting which left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> New Mexico prosecutors charged both Baldwin and armorer Hannah
> > >>>>> Gutierrez-Reed with two federal counts of involuntary manslaughter
> > >>>>> over the death of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust†film set in October
> > >>>>> 2021, when a real bullet was loaded into a prop gun. Alec Baldwin has
> > >>>>> been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust†shooting which
> > >>>>> left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> After a thorough review of the evidence and the laws of the state of
> > >>>>> New Mexico, I have determined that there is sufficient evidence to
> > >>>>> file criminal charges against Alec Baldwin and other members of the
> > >>>>> ‘Rust’ film crew,†Carmack-Altwies said. On my watch, no one is above
> > >>>>> the law, and everyone deserves justice.â€
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the loaded gun,
> > >>>>> accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The long-awaited decision to charge the “30 Rock†star and three
> > >>>>> others came after a meticulous investigation revealed all bore
> > >>>>> responsibility for the shooting that killed married mom Halyna
> > >>>>> Hutchins, 42 and injured Joel Souza, 49.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Each defendant will get a preliminary court hearing within 60 days to
> > >>>>> determine if there is probable cause to go to trial, prosecutors
> > >>>>> said.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> While Carmack-Altwies previously acknowledged Baldwin was responsible
> > >>>>> for firing the fatal round, she said “many individuals†on-set had
> > >>>>> handled the gun prior to the tragedy and could be criminally liable.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> During the initial investigation, detectives from the Santa Fe
> > >>>>> Sheriff’s Office said they found a mixture of dummy and live rounds
> > >>>>> scattered throughout the set, which is a violation of industry safety
> > >>>>> standards. At the time, Carmack-Altwies said determining how the live
> > >>>>> rounds got to the set “will be one of the most important factors going
> > >>>>> into a charging decision.â€
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The crew member in charge of ammo and weapons on set, armorer Hannah
> > >>>>> Gutierrez-Reed, has repeatedly denied responsibility for the shooting.
> > >>>>> In January, she filed suit against the props company that supplied the
> > >>>>> rounds, alleging they sold blanks and lives mixed together.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> At the time of the shooting, Baldwin was sitting on a pew in a mock
> > >>>>> church at the Bonanza Creek Ranch rehearsing a cross draw as Hutchins
> > >>>>> and Souza stood behind the camera.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> As he rehearsed, he pulled out the gun, pointed it directly at the
> > >>>>> camera and fired a single bullet that struck both Hutchins and Souza.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The Emmy winner has repeatedly denied pulling the trigger, saying the
> > >>>>> gun went off accidentally, but an FBI forensic report released in
> > >>>>> August concluded the firearm couldn’t have gone off unless someone
> > >>>>> pulled the trigger.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Souza told police he recalled hearing the phrase “cold gun†while
> > >>>>> preparing for the scene, indicating the firearm wasn’t loaded and was
> > >>>>> safe for use, but he couldn’t remember if the gun had been checked
> > >>>>> before it was handed to Baldwin.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> More at:
> > >>>>> https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> If you pick up or are handed a gun, the first thing you do is check if
> > >>>>> it's loaded. If you don't know how to check, you don't touch it, or
> > >>>>> assume that it's loaded. At any rate you always handle a gun loaded or
> > >>>>> not, as if it's loaded.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> One thing I wonder about. There is a very distinct difference between
> > >>>> "blank" cartridges and "loaded" cartridges both in appearance and in
> > >>>> weight. Sufficiently that it seems very odd that anyone could mix them
> > >>>> up.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Actors are typically hired for their acting skills, not for their knowledge
> > >>> of munitions. While Baldwin may have pulled the trigger, set safety should
> > >>> not rely on an actor being able to differentiate a loaded cartridge from a
> > >>> blank.
> > >>>
> > >> Yes, that's right.
> > >>
> > >> He's more than an actor in this venture, he's the producer.
> > >> In that capacity, he hired a novice (=less expensive)
> > >> armorer. There's also the matter of live cartridges on set,
> > >> from a prior production, which Mr Baldwin refused to return
> > >> when asked. Add in occasional plinking in the desert by cast
> > >> members (exactly who? I don't know) during breaks.
> > >>
> > >> Messy all around. It will be arduous to sort out the
> > >> relevant facts.
> > >>
> > >> To your point, Mr Baldwin has maintained he 'never pulled
> > >> the trigger' but FBI analysis shows that is not possible in
> > >> a Colt Single Action Army. So why would he say that? Another
> > >> confounding set of conflicting items.
> > >>
> > >> I do not yet have an opinion. I think it's prudent to
> > >> reserve judgement for a while yet.
> > >>
> > >> For the interested reader, Colt Single Action Army is a bit
> > >> different from modern pistol designs:
> > >>
> > >> https://www.bevfitchett.us/colt-army-revolver/hammer-positions.html
> >
> > >
> > > Baldwin wasn't _the_ producer, he was _a_ producer, one of several. According to IMDB the credited producers on the film were Alec Baldwin, Matt DelPiano, Ryan Donnell Smith, Anjul Nigam, Ryan Winterstern, and Nathan Klingher. Producers in this capacity are more like investors. The contribute money to the project, and depending on their level of investment and contractual agreement, may have anywhere from no say at all into the production up to casting and scripting decisions. It isn't likely someone at Baldwins level have much input at all into hiring the armorer or any other member of the crew.
> > >
> > Thank you.
> > I did not realize that 'producer' is a committee.
> >
> > Still and all, this is not a simple case and woe to the jury.
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> This reminds me of that Scharf trick of proving me wring about the $123 roast by only showing the first half of the sales bulletin. That there are several producers doesn't mean much if Baldwin hired the armorer and gave her orders and if she was incompetent and he was too stupid to know that. So as usual Flunky, like Liebermann, is an expert at all he surveys which is nothing at all.
>
In any event that moron Flunky got it altogether wrong. The guy with the yes-power is the last executive producer whose name appears on the screen. The guy who actually operates the filming site is the line producer. There is a producer above the line producer, and he's the last credit onscreen before the director. All the rest may just be CV-building credits*, or they may be embedded snitches for the financiers of a movie. Let's say BBC TV has a contract with a writer and a production company but doesn't want to risk all the money of an expensive production, then they part out pieces of the exhibition rights to, say, a German and a French broadcaster, and bring in Canadian TV as well, and then discover the production will be even more expensive than anyone thought, and so a star has to be brought in, which ups the ante but acts as a sort of guarantee of the return, so Netflix comes in for say half the cost and gives a star they may have under contract for x number of productions to this production. All these institutions and people have what for them is a huge amount of money on the line, and they name co-producers who, as I said already, are commonly knowledgeable snitches. They're very unlikely to have script approval, or anything like it; if the production company has serious rights, the person with the yes-power can be found in the rollers at the back of the film, among those listed as "executive producer for XYZ Distant Broadcaster", to whom their embedded producer on the set will report.
>
* I'm not joking. There was a notorious case where a secretary got a co-production credit on a huge movie for carrying the script for the movie in to the producer's office...
>
An experienced actor with a strong personality like Baldwin can either be a real producer (a common event these days), or just demand to be pandered to by the producer and line producer. They would in any event certainly listen to a suggestion that he likes working with A N Othershooter as an armorer. On any production with a big star there are umpteen people who owe their inclusion in the production to the star; even where this is not the case, people on a production don't like saying "no" to a star.
>
Andre Jute
Innocents abroad in Chaosland can do worse than read William Goldman's Adventures in the Screen Trade
>

On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 3:32:45 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 10:53:10 PM UTC, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 7:56:49 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 1/23/2023 9:25 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 9:53:50 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > > >> On 1/20/2023 8:32 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > > >>> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:27:13 -0500, Catrike Rider
> > > >>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Alec Baldwin has been criminally charged in connection with the “Rustâ€
> > > >>>>> shooting which left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> New Mexico prosecutors charged both Baldwin and armorer Hannah
> > > >>>>> Gutierrez-Reed with two federal counts of involuntary manslaughter
> > > >>>>> over the death of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust†film set in October
> > > >>>>> 2021, when a real bullet was loaded into a prop gun. Alec Baldwin has
> > > >>>>> been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust†shooting which
> > > >>>>> left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> After a thorough review of the evidence and the laws of the state of
> > > >>>>> New Mexico, I have determined that there is sufficient evidence to
> > > >>>>> file criminal charges against Alec Baldwin and other members of the
> > > >>>>> ‘Rust’ film crew,†Carmack-Altwies said. On my watch, no one is above
> > > >>>>> the law, and everyone deserves justice.â€
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the loaded gun,
> > > >>>>> accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> The long-awaited decision to charge the “30 Rock†star and three
> > > >>>>> others came after a meticulous investigation revealed all bore
> > > >>>>> responsibility for the shooting that killed married mom Halyna
> > > >>>>> Hutchins, 42 and injured Joel Souza, 49.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Each defendant will get a preliminary court hearing within 60 days to
> > > >>>>> determine if there is probable cause to go to trial, prosecutors
> > > >>>>> said.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> While Carmack-Altwies previously acknowledged Baldwin was responsible
> > > >>>>> for firing the fatal round, she said “many individuals†on-set had
> > > >>>>> handled the gun prior to the tragedy and could be criminally liable.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> During the initial investigation, detectives from the Santa Fe
> > > >>>>> Sheriff’s Office said they found a mixture of dummy and live rounds
> > > >>>>> scattered throughout the set, which is a violation of industry safety
> > > >>>>> standards. At the time, Carmack-Altwies said determining how the live
> > > >>>>> rounds got to the set “will be one of the most important factors going
> > > >>>>> into a charging decision.â€
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> The crew member in charge of ammo and weapons on set, armorer Hannah
> > > >>>>> Gutierrez-Reed, has repeatedly denied responsibility for the shooting.
> > > >>>>> In January, she filed suit against the props company that supplied the
> > > >>>>> rounds, alleging they sold blanks and lives mixed together.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> At the time of the shooting, Baldwin was sitting on a pew in a mock
> > > >>>>> church at the Bonanza Creek Ranch rehearsing a cross draw as Hutchins
> > > >>>>> and Souza stood behind the camera.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> As he rehearsed, he pulled out the gun, pointed it directly at the
> > > >>>>> camera and fired a single bullet that struck both Hutchins and Souza.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> The Emmy winner has repeatedly denied pulling the trigger, saying the
> > > >>>>> gun went off accidentally, but an FBI forensic report released in
> > > >>>>> August concluded the firearm couldn’t have gone off unless someone
> > > >>>>> pulled the trigger.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Souza told police he recalled hearing the phrase “cold gun†while
> > > >>>>> preparing for the scene, indicating the firearm wasn’t loaded and was
> > > >>>>> safe for use, but he couldn’t remember if the gun had been checked
> > > >>>>> before it was handed to Baldwin.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> More at:
> > > >>>>> https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> If you pick up or are handed a gun, the first thing you do is check if
> > > >>>>> it's loaded. If you don't know how to check, you don't touch it, or
> > > >>>>> assume that it's loaded. At any rate you always handle a gun loaded or
> > > >>>>> not, as if it's loaded.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> One thing I wonder about. There is a very distinct difference between
> > > >>>> "blank" cartridges and "loaded" cartridges both in appearance and in
> > > >>>> weight. Sufficiently that it seems very odd that anyone could mix them
> > > >>>> up.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Actors are typically hired for their acting skills, not for their knowledge
> > > >>> of munitions. While Baldwin may have pulled the trigger, set safety should
> > > >>> not rely on an actor being able to differentiate a loaded cartridge from a
> > > >>> blank.
> > > >>>
> > > >> Yes, that's right.
> > > >>
> > > >> He's more than an actor in this venture, he's the producer.
> > > >> In that capacity, he hired a novice (=less expensive)
> > > >> armorer. There's also the matter of live cartridges on set,
> > > >> from a prior production, which Mr Baldwin refused to return
> > > >> when asked. Add in occasional plinking in the desert by cast
> > > >> members (exactly who? I don't know) during breaks.
> > > >>
> > > >> Messy all around. It will be arduous to sort out the
> > > >> relevant facts.
> > > >>
> > > >> To your point, Mr Baldwin has maintained he 'never pulled
> > > >> the trigger' but FBI analysis shows that is not possible in
> > > >> a Colt Single Action Army. So why would he say that? Another
> > > >> confounding set of conflicting items.
> > > >>
> > > >> I do not yet have an opinion. I think it's prudent to
> > > >> reserve judgement for a while yet.
> > > >>
> > > >> For the interested reader, Colt Single Action Army is a bit
> > > >> different from modern pistol designs:
> > > >>
> > > >> https://www.bevfitchett.us/colt-army-revolver/hammer-positions.html
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Baldwin wasn't _the_ producer, he was _a_ producer, one of several. According to IMDB the credited producers on the film were Alec Baldwin, Matt DelPiano, Ryan Donnell Smith, Anjul Nigam, Ryan Winterstern, and Nathan Klingher. Producers in this capacity are more like investors. The contribute money to the project, and depending on their level of investment and contractual agreement, may have anywhere from no say at all into the production up to casting and scripting decisions. It isn't likely someone at Baldwins level have much input at all into hiring the armorer or any other member of the crew.
> > > >
> > > Thank you.
> > > I did not realize that 'producer' is a committee.
> > >
> > > Still and all, this is not a simple case and woe to the jury.
> > > --
> > > Andrew Muzi
> > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > This reminds me of that Scharf trick of proving me wring about the $123 roast by only showing the first half of the sales bulletin. That there are several producers doesn't mean much if Baldwin hired the armorer and gave her orders and if she was incompetent and he was too stupid to know that. So as usual Flunky, like Liebermann, is an expert at all he surveys which is nothing at all.
> >
> In any event that moron Flunky got it altogether wrong. The guy with the yes-power is the last executive producer whose name appears on the screen. The guy who actually operates the filming site is the line producer. There is a producer above the line producer, and he's the last credit onscreen before the director. All the rest may just be CV-building credits*, or they may be embedded snitches for the financiers of a movie. Let's say BBC TV has a contract with a writer and a production company but doesn't want to risk all the money of an expensive production, then they part out pieces of the exhibition rights to, say, a German and a French broadcaster, and bring in Canadian TV as well, and then discover the production will be even more expensive than anyone thought, and so a star has to be brought in, which ups the ante but acts as a sort of guarantee of the return, so Netflix comes in for say half the cost and gives a star they may have under contract for x number of productions to this production. All these institutions and people have what for them is a huge amount of money on the line, and they name co-producers who, as I said already, are commonly knowledgeable snitches. They're very unlikely to have script approval, or anything like it; if the production company has serious rights, the person with the yes-power can be found in the rollers at the back of the film, among those listed as "executive producer for XYZ Distant Broadcaster", to whom their embedded producer on the set will report.
> >
> * I'm not joking. There was a notorious case where a secretary got a co-production credit on a huge movie for carrying the script for the movie in to the producer's office...
> >
> An experienced actor with a strong personality like Baldwin can either be a real producer (a common event these days), or just demand to be pandered to by the producer and line producer. They would in any event certainly listen to a suggestion that he likes working with A N Othershooter as an armorer. On any production with a big star there are umpteen people who owe their inclusion in the production to the star; even where this is not the case, people on a production don't like saying "no" to a star.
> >
> Andre Jute
> Innocents abroad in Chaosland can do worse than read William Goldman's Adventures in the Screen Trade
> >

On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 8:13:53 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > >
> I'd say that Flunky shows his worth by posting under a pseudonym

:-) Like that guy who rides nothing but a tricycle? And what's the real name of that Irish
former-pseudo-writer?

- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 17:13:51 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 3:32:45 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
>> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 10:53:10 PM UTC, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 7:56:49 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> > > On 1/23/2023 9:25 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > > > On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 9:53:50 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> > > >> On 1/20/2023 8:32 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> > > >>> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >>>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:27:13 -0500, Catrike Rider
>> > > >>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> Alec Baldwin has been criminally charged in connection with the “Rustâ€
>> > > >>>>> shooting which left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> New Mexico prosecutors charged both Baldwin and armorer Hannah
>> > > >>>>> Gutierrez-Reed with two federal counts of involuntary manslaughter
>> > > >>>>> over the death of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust†film set in October
>> > > >>>>> 2021, when a real bullet was loaded into a prop gun. Alec Baldwin has
>> > > >>>>> been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust†shooting which
>> > > >>>>> left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> After a thorough review of the evidence and the laws of the state of
>> > > >>>>> New Mexico, I have determined that there is sufficient evidence to
>> > > >>>>> file criminal charges against Alec Baldwin and other members of the
>> > > >>>>> ‘Rust’ film crew,†Carmack-Altwies said. On my watch, no one is above
>> > > >>>>> the law, and everyone deserves justice.â€
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the loaded gun,
>> > > >>>>> accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> The long-awaited decision to charge the “30 Rock†star and three
>> > > >>>>> others came after a meticulous investigation revealed all bore
>> > > >>>>> responsibility for the shooting that killed married mom Halyna
>> > > >>>>> Hutchins, 42 and injured Joel Souza, 49.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> Each defendant will get a preliminary court hearing within 60 days to
>> > > >>>>> determine if there is probable cause to go to trial, prosecutors
>> > > >>>>> said.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> While Carmack-Altwies previously acknowledged Baldwin was responsible
>> > > >>>>> for firing the fatal round, she said “many individuals†on-set had
>> > > >>>>> handled the gun prior to the tragedy and could be criminally liable.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> During the initial investigation, detectives from the Santa Fe
>> > > >>>>> Sheriff’s Office said they found a mixture of dummy and live rounds
>> > > >>>>> scattered throughout the set, which is a violation of industry safety
>> > > >>>>> standards. At the time, Carmack-Altwies said determining how the live
>> > > >>>>> rounds got to the set “will be one of the most important factors going
>> > > >>>>> into a charging decision.â€
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> The crew member in charge of ammo and weapons on set, armorer Hannah
>> > > >>>>> Gutierrez-Reed, has repeatedly denied responsibility for the shooting.
>> > > >>>>> In January, she filed suit against the props company that supplied the
>> > > >>>>> rounds, alleging they sold blanks and lives mixed together.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> At the time of the shooting, Baldwin was sitting on a pew in a mock
>> > > >>>>> church at the Bonanza Creek Ranch rehearsing a cross draw as Hutchins
>> > > >>>>> and Souza stood behind the camera.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> As he rehearsed, he pulled out the gun, pointed it directly at the
>> > > >>>>> camera and fired a single bullet that struck both Hutchins and Souza.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> The Emmy winner has repeatedly denied pulling the trigger, saying the
>> > > >>>>> gun went off accidentally, but an FBI forensic report released in
>> > > >>>>> August concluded the firearm couldn’t have gone off unless someone
>> > > >>>>> pulled the trigger.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> Souza told police he recalled hearing the phrase “cold gun†while
>> > > >>>>> preparing for the scene, indicating the firearm wasn’t loaded and was
>> > > >>>>> safe for use, but he couldn’t remember if the gun had been checked
>> > > >>>>> before it was handed to Baldwin.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> More at:
>> > > >>>>> https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> If you pick up or are handed a gun, the first thing you do is check if
>> > > >>>>> it's loaded. If you don't know how to check, you don't touch it, or
>> > > >>>>> assume that it's loaded. At any rate you always handle a gun loaded or
>> > > >>>>> not, as if it's loaded.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> One thing I wonder about. There is a very distinct difference between
>> > > >>>> "blank" cartridges and "loaded" cartridges both in appearance and in
>> > > >>>> weight. Sufficiently that it seems very odd that anyone could mix them
>> > > >>>> up.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> Actors are typically hired for their acting skills, not for their knowledge
>> > > >>> of munitions. While Baldwin may have pulled the trigger, set safety should
>> > > >>> not rely on an actor being able to differentiate a loaded cartridge from a
>> > > >>> blank.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >> Yes, that's right.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> He's more than an actor in this venture, he's the producer.
>> > > >> In that capacity, he hired a novice (=less expensive)
>> > > >> armorer. There's also the matter of live cartridges on set,
>> > > >> from a prior production, which Mr Baldwin refused to return
>> > > >> when asked. Add in occasional plinking in the desert by cast
>> > > >> members (exactly who? I don't know) during breaks.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Messy all around. It will be arduous to sort out the
>> > > >> relevant facts.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> To your point, Mr Baldwin has maintained he 'never pulled
>> > > >> the trigger' but FBI analysis shows that is not possible in
>> > > >> a Colt Single Action Army. So why would he say that? Another
>> > > >> confounding set of conflicting items.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I do not yet have an opinion. I think it's prudent to
>> > > >> reserve judgement for a while yet.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> For the interested reader, Colt Single Action Army is a bit
>> > > >> different from modern pistol designs:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> https://www.bevfitchett.us/colt-army-revolver/hammer-positions.html
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Baldwin wasn't _the_ producer, he was _a_ producer, one of several. According to IMDB the credited producers on the film were Alec Baldwin, Matt DelPiano, Ryan Donnell Smith, Anjul Nigam, Ryan Winterstern, and Nathan Klingher. Producers in this capacity are more like investors. The contribute money to the project, and depending on their level of investment and contractual agreement, may have anywhere from no say at all into the production up to casting and scripting decisions. It isn't likely someone at Baldwins level have much input at all into hiring the armorer or any other member of the crew.
>> > > >
>> > > Thank you.
>> > > I did not realize that 'producer' is a committee.
>> > >
>> > > Still and all, this is not a simple case and woe to the jury.
>> > > --
>> > > Andrew Muzi
>> > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>> > This reminds me of that Scharf trick of proving me wring about the $123 roast by only showing the first half of the sales bulletin. That there are several producers doesn't mean much if Baldwin hired the armorer and gave her orders and if she was incompetent and he was too stupid to know that. So as usual Flunky, like Liebermann, is an expert at all he surveys which is nothing at all.
>> >
>> In any event that moron Flunky got it altogether wrong. The guy with the yes-power is the last executive producer whose name appears on the screen. The guy who actually operates the filming site is the line producer. There is a producer above the line producer, and he's the last credit onscreen before the director. All the rest may just be CV-building credits*, or they may be embedded snitches for the financiers of a movie. Let's say BBC TV has a contract with a writer and a production company but doesn't want to risk all the money of an expensive production, then they part out pieces of the exhibition rights to, say, a German and a French broadcaster, and bring in Canadian TV as well, and then discover the production will be even more expensive than anyone thought, and so a star has to be brought in, which ups the ante but acts as a sort of guarantee of the return, so Netflix comes in for say half the cost and gives a star they may have under contract for x number of productions
>to this production. All these institutions and people have what for them is a huge amount of money on the line, and they name co-producers who, as I said already, are commonly knowledgeable snitches. They're very unlikely to have script approval, or anything like it; if the production company has serious rights, the person with the yes-power can be found in the rollers at the back of the film, among those listed as "executive producer for XYZ Distant Broadcaster", to whom their embedded producer on the set will report.
>> >
>> * I'm not joking. There was a notorious case where a secretary got a co-production credit on a huge movie for carrying the script for the movie in to the producer's office...
>> >
>> An experienced actor with a strong personality like Baldwin can either be a real producer (a common event these days), or just demand to be pandered to by the producer and line producer. They would in any event certainly listen to a suggestion that he likes working with A N Othershooter as an armorer. On any production with a big star there are umpteen people who owe their inclusion in the production to the star; even where this is not the case, people on a production don't like saying "no" to a star.
>> >
>> Andre Jute
>> Innocents abroad in Chaosland can do worse than read William Goldman's Adventures in the Screen Trade
>> >
>
>I'd say that Flunky shows his worth by posting under a pseudonym

On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 5:53:10 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 7:56:49 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 1/23/2023 9:25 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 9:53:50 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > >> On 1/20/2023 8:32 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > >>> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:27:13 -0500, Catrike Rider
> > >>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Alec Baldwin has been criminally charged in connection with the “Rustâ€
> > >>>>> shooting which left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> New Mexico prosecutors charged both Baldwin and armorer Hannah
> > >>>>> Gutierrez-Reed with two federal counts of involuntary manslaughter
> > >>>>> over the death of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust†film set in October
> > >>>>> 2021, when a real bullet was loaded into a prop gun. Alec Baldwin has
> > >>>>> been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust†shooting which
> > >>>>> left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> After a thorough review of the evidence and the laws of the state of
> > >>>>> New Mexico, I have determined that there is sufficient evidence to
> > >>>>> file criminal charges against Alec Baldwin and other members of the
> > >>>>> ‘Rust’ film crew,†Carmack-Altwies said. On my watch, no one is above
> > >>>>> the law, and everyone deserves justice.â€
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the loaded gun,
> > >>>>> accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The long-awaited decision to charge the “30 Rock†star and three
> > >>>>> others came after a meticulous investigation revealed all bore
> > >>>>> responsibility for the shooting that killed married mom Halyna
> > >>>>> Hutchins, 42 and injured Joel Souza, 49.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Each defendant will get a preliminary court hearing within 60 days to
> > >>>>> determine if there is probable cause to go to trial, prosecutors
> > >>>>> said.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> While Carmack-Altwies previously acknowledged Baldwin was responsible
> > >>>>> for firing the fatal round, she said “many individuals†on-set had
> > >>>>> handled the gun prior to the tragedy and could be criminally liable.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> During the initial investigation, detectives from the Santa Fe
> > >>>>> Sheriff’s Office said they found a mixture of dummy and live rounds
> > >>>>> scattered throughout the set, which is a violation of industry safety
> > >>>>> standards. At the time, Carmack-Altwies said determining how the live
> > >>>>> rounds got to the set “will be one of the most important factors going
> > >>>>> into a charging decision.â€
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The crew member in charge of ammo and weapons on set, armorer Hannah
> > >>>>> Gutierrez-Reed, has repeatedly denied responsibility for the shooting.
> > >>>>> In January, she filed suit against the props company that supplied the
> > >>>>> rounds, alleging they sold blanks and lives mixed together.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> At the time of the shooting, Baldwin was sitting on a pew in a mock
> > >>>>> church at the Bonanza Creek Ranch rehearsing a cross draw as Hutchins
> > >>>>> and Souza stood behind the camera.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> As he rehearsed, he pulled out the gun, pointed it directly at the
> > >>>>> camera and fired a single bullet that struck both Hutchins and Souza.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The Emmy winner has repeatedly denied pulling the trigger, saying the
> > >>>>> gun went off accidentally, but an FBI forensic report released in
> > >>>>> August concluded the firearm couldn’t have gone off unless someone
> > >>>>> pulled the trigger.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Souza told police he recalled hearing the phrase “cold gun†while
> > >>>>> preparing for the scene, indicating the firearm wasn’t loaded and was
> > >>>>> safe for use, but he couldn’t remember if the gun had been checked
> > >>>>> before it was handed to Baldwin.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> More at:
> > >>>>> https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> If you pick up or are handed a gun, the first thing you do is check if
> > >>>>> it's loaded. If you don't know how to check, you don't touch it, or
> > >>>>> assume that it's loaded. At any rate you always handle a gun loaded or
> > >>>>> not, as if it's loaded.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> One thing I wonder about. There is a very distinct difference between
> > >>>> "blank" cartridges and "loaded" cartridges both in appearance and in
> > >>>> weight. Sufficiently that it seems very odd that anyone could mix them
> > >>>> up.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Actors are typically hired for their acting skills, not for their knowledge
> > >>> of munitions. While Baldwin may have pulled the trigger, set safety should
> > >>> not rely on an actor being able to differentiate a loaded cartridge from a
> > >>> blank.
> > >>>
> > >> Yes, that's right.
> > >>
> > >> He's more than an actor in this venture, he's the producer.
> > >> In that capacity, he hired a novice (=less expensive)
> > >> armorer. There's also the matter of live cartridges on set,
> > >> from a prior production, which Mr Baldwin refused to return
> > >> when asked. Add in occasional plinking in the desert by cast
> > >> members (exactly who? I don't know) during breaks.
> > >>
> > >> Messy all around. It will be arduous to sort out the
> > >> relevant facts.
> > >>
> > >> To your point, Mr Baldwin has maintained he 'never pulled
> > >> the trigger' but FBI analysis shows that is not possible in
> > >> a Colt Single Action Army. So why would he say that? Another
> > >> confounding set of conflicting items.
> > >>
> > >> I do not yet have an opinion. I think it's prudent to
> > >> reserve judgement for a while yet.
> > >>
> > >> For the interested reader, Colt Single Action Army is a bit
> > >> different from modern pistol designs:
> > >>
> > >> https://www.bevfitchett.us/colt-army-revolver/hammer-positions.html
> >
> > >
> > > Baldwin wasn't _the_ producer, he was _a_ producer, one of several. According to IMDB the credited producers on the film were Alec Baldwin, Matt DelPiano, Ryan Donnell Smith, Anjul Nigam, Ryan Winterstern, and Nathan Klingher. Producers in this capacity are more like investors. The contribute money to the project, and depending on their level of investment and contractual agreement, may have anywhere from no say at all into the production up to casting and scripting decisions. It isn't likely someone at Baldwins level have much input at all into hiring the armorer or any other member of the crew.
> > >
> > Thank you.
> > I did not realize that 'producer' is a committee.
> >
> > Still and all, this is not a simple case and woe to the jury.
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> This reminds me of that Scharf trick of proving me wring about the $123 roast by only showing the first half of the sales bulletin.

On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 6:32:45 PM UTC-5, the ignorant arrogant angry little irish troll wrote:
> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 10:53:10 PM UTC, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 7:56:49 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 1/23/2023 9:25 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > >
> > > > Baldwin wasn't _the_ producer, he was _a_ producer, one of several. According to IMDB the credited producers on the film were Alec Baldwin, Matt DelPiano, Ryan Donnell Smith, Anjul Nigam, Ryan Winterstern, and Nathan Klingher. Producers in this capacity are more like investors. The contribute money to the project, and depending on their level of investment and contractual agreement, may have anywhere from no say at all into the production up to casting and scripting decisions. It isn't likely someone at Baldwins level have much input at all into hiring the armorer or any other member of the crew.
> > > >
> > > Thank you.
> > > I did not realize that 'producer' is a committee.
> > >
> > > Still and all, this is not a simple case and woe to the jury.
> > > --
> > > Andrew Muzi
> > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > This reminds me of that Scharf trick of proving me wring about the $123 roast by only showing the first half of the sales bulletin. That there are several producers doesn't mean much if Baldwin hired the armorer and gave her orders and if she was incompetent and he was too stupid to know that. So as usual Flunky, like Liebermann, is an expert at all he surveys which is nothing at all.
> >
> In any event that moron Flunky got it altogether wrong.

really, short ass? because everything you wrote confirms what I wrote, especially.

> >
> An experienced actor with a strong personality like Baldwin can either be a real producer (a common event these days), or just demand to be pandered to by the producer and line producer. They would in any event certainly listen to a suggestion that he likes working with A N Othershooter as an armorer. On any production with a big star there are umpteen people who owe their inclusion in the production to the star; even where this is not the case, people on a production don't like saying "no" to a star.

Pure speculation on your part - IOW, you have no fucking clue what you babbling about. Oh, wait, now I guess you're going to list hollywood movie management consult among your other fictional experiences, right Mr. Mitty?

Bullshit. Here's a little _fact_ nugget for you:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/rust-budget-star-producer-armorer-fees-revealed-1235041946/

"In addition to the producers, line producer Gabrielle Pickle, who would have been in charge of hiring the crew, allocating the budget and overseeing the production, was to earn $96,198."

It's called 'research', short-ass. You might want to try it some time (More proof you never time with Karl Popper in any capcity)

Crawl back into your toad-hole, fuckface. Even tommy is sick of you polluting this groups with political bullshit.

On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 11:09:54 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/986D_mm3Twk/m/NTbOFqXWAQAJ
>
> This Group would be a far better place without the Stupid five..
> The cite would return to information MOSTLY but not entirely about bicycles as it was when Jobst moderated it.

> >
> Andre Jute
> a writer of vanity novels and diarrhea-mouthed, long winded poster to the Usenet - where he pretends to be famous.
> >

On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 8:13:53 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >
> I'd say that Flunky shows his worth by posting under a pseudonym

Like catrike rider?
or andre jute/andrew mccoy/dakota franklin?

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 3:33:22 AM UTC-5, Catrike Rider wrote:
>
>
> Imo, identifying yourself on social media is like an invitation for
> contact above and beyond social media, such as advertising your
> business. Using a pseudonym simply means the only contact I want to
> have with you is inside the social media platform.

Both you and your dumber twin andre/andrew/dakota can fuck off about your 'anonymous' whining.

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 12:33:22 AM UTC-8, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 17:13:51 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 3:32:45 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> >> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 10:53:10 PM UTC, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 7:56:49 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> > > On 1/23/2023 9:25 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> > > > On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 9:53:50 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >> > > >> On 1/20/2023 8:32 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> >> > > >>> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > >>>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:27:13 -0500, Catrike Rider
> >> > > >>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> Alec Baldwin has been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust�€
> >> > > >>>>> shooting which left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> New Mexico prosecutors charged both Baldwin and armorer Hannah
> >> > > >>>>> Gutierrez-Reed with two federal counts of involuntary manslaughter
> >> > > >>>>> over the death of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust�€ film set in October
> >> > > >>>>> 2021, when a real bullet was loaded into a prop gun. Alec Baldwin has
> >> > > >>>>> been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust�€ shooting which
> >> > > >>>>> left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> After a thorough review of the evidence and the laws of the state of
> >> > > >>>>> New Mexico, I have determined that there is sufficient evidence to
> >> > > >>>>> file criminal charges against Alec Baldwin and other members of the
> >> > > >>>>> ‘Rust’ film crew,�€ Carmack-Altwies said. On my watch, no one is above
> >> > > >>>>> the law, and everyone deserves justice.�€
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the loaded gun,
> >> > > >>>>> accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> The long-awaited decision to charge the “30 Rock�€ star and three
> >> > > >>>>> others came after a meticulous investigation revealed all bore
> >> > > >>>>> responsibility for the shooting that killed married mom Halyna
> >> > > >>>>> Hutchins, 42 and injured Joel Souza, 49.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> Each defendant will get a preliminary court hearing within 60 days to
> >> > > >>>>> determine if there is probable cause to go to trial, prosecutors
> >> > > >>>>> said.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> While Carmack-Altwies previously acknowledged Baldwin was responsible
> >> > > >>>>> for firing the fatal round, she said “many individuals�€ on-set had
> >> > > >>>>> handled the gun prior to the tragedy and could be criminally liable.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> During the initial investigation, detectives from the Santa Fe
> >> > > >>>>> Sheriff’s Office said they found a mixture of dummy and live rounds
> >> > > >>>>> scattered throughout the set, which is a violation of industry safety
> >> > > >>>>> standards. At the time, Carmack-Altwies said determining how the live
> >> > > >>>>> rounds got to the set “will be one of the most important factors going
> >> > > >>>>> into a charging decision.�€
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> The crew member in charge of ammo and weapons on set, armorer Hannah
> >> > > >>>>> Gutierrez-Reed, has repeatedly denied responsibility for the shooting.
> >> > > >>>>> In January, she filed suit against the props company that supplied the
> >> > > >>>>> rounds, alleging they sold blanks and lives mixed together.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> At the time of the shooting, Baldwin was sitting on a pew in a mock
> >> > > >>>>> church at the Bonanza Creek Ranch rehearsing a cross draw as Hutchins
> >> > > >>>>> and Souza stood behind the camera.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> As he rehearsed, he pulled out the gun, pointed it directly at the
> >> > > >>>>> camera and fired a single bullet that struck both Hutchins and Souza.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> The Emmy winner has repeatedly denied pulling the trigger, saying the
> >> > > >>>>> gun went off accidentally, but an FBI forensic report released in
> >> > > >>>>> August concluded the firearm couldn’t have gone off unless someone
> >> > > >>>>> pulled the trigger.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> Souza told police he recalled hearing the phrase “cold gun�€ while
> >> > > >>>>> preparing for the scene, indicating the firearm wasn’t loaded and was
> >> > > >>>>> safe for use, but he couldn’t remember if the gun had been checked
> >> > > >>>>> before it was handed to Baldwin.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> More at:
> >> > > >>>>> https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> If you pick up or are handed a gun, the first thing you do is check if
> >> > > >>>>> it's loaded. If you don't know how to check, you don't touch it, or
> >> > > >>>>> assume that it's loaded. At any rate you always handle a gun loaded or
> >> > > >>>>> not, as if it's loaded.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> One thing I wonder about. There is a very distinct difference between
> >> > > >>>> "blank" cartridges and "loaded" cartridges both in appearance and in
> >> > > >>>> weight. Sufficiently that it seems very odd that anyone could mix them
> >> > > >>>> up.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> Actors are typically hired for their acting skills, not for their knowledge
> >> > > >>> of munitions. While Baldwin may have pulled the trigger, set safety should
> >> > > >>> not rely on an actor being able to differentiate a loaded cartridge from a
> >> > > >>> blank.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >> Yes, that's right.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> He's more than an actor in this venture, he's the producer.
> >> > > >> In that capacity, he hired a novice (=less expensive)
> >> > > >> armorer. There's also the matter of live cartridges on set,
> >> > > >> from a prior production, which Mr Baldwin refused to return
> >> > > >> when asked. Add in occasional plinking in the desert by cast
> >> > > >> members (exactly who? I don't know) during breaks.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Messy all around. It will be arduous to sort out the
> >> > > >> relevant facts.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> To your point, Mr Baldwin has maintained he 'never pulled
> >> > > >> the trigger' but FBI analysis shows that is not possible in
> >> > > >> a Colt Single Action Army. So why would he say that? Another
> >> > > >> confounding set of conflicting items.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> I do not yet have an opinion. I think it's prudent to
> >> > > >> reserve judgement for a while yet.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> For the interested reader, Colt Single Action Army is a bit
> >> > > >> different from modern pistol designs:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> https://www.bevfitchett.us/colt-army-revolver/hammer-positions.html
> >> > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Baldwin wasn't _the_ producer, he was _a_ producer, one of several. According to IMDB the credited producers on the film were Alec Baldwin, Matt DelPiano, Ryan Donnell Smith, Anjul Nigam, Ryan Winterstern, and Nathan Klingher. Producers in this capacity are more like investors. The contribute money to the project, and depending on their level of investment and contractual agreement, may have anywhere from no say at all into the production up to casting and scripting decisions. It isn't likely someone at Baldwins level have much input at all into hiring the armorer or any other member of the crew.
> >> > > >
> >> > > Thank you.
> >> > > I did not realize that 'producer' is a committee.
> >> > >
> >> > > Still and all, this is not a simple case and woe to the jury.
> >> > > --
> >> > > Andrew Muzi
> >> > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >> > This reminds me of that Scharf trick of proving me wring about the $123 roast by only showing the first half of the sales bulletin. That there are several producers doesn't mean much if Baldwin hired the armorer and gave her orders and if she was incompetent and he was too stupid to know that.. So as usual Flunky, like Liebermann, is an expert at all he surveys which is nothing at all.
> >> >
> >> In any event that moron Flunky got it altogether wrong. The guy with the yes-power is the last executive producer whose name appears on the screen. The guy who actually operates the filming site is the line producer. There is a producer above the line producer, and he's the last credit onscreen before the director. All the rest may just be CV-building credits*, or they may be embedded snitches for the financiers of a movie. Let's say BBC TV has a contract with a writer and a production company but doesn't want to risk all the money of an expensive production, then they part out pieces of the exhibition rights to, say, a German and a French broadcaster, and bring in Canadian TV as well, and then discover the production will be even more expensive than anyone thought, and so a star has to be brought in, which ups the ante but acts as a sort of guarantee of the return, so Netflix comes in for say half the cost and gives a star they may have under contract for x number of productions
> >to this production. All these institutions and people have what for them is a huge amount of money on the line, and they name co-producers who, as I said already, are commonly knowledgeable snitches. They're very unlikely to have script approval, or anything like it; if the production company has serious rights, the person with the yes-power can be found in the rollers at the back of the film, among those listed as "executive producer for XYZ Distant Broadcaster", to whom their embedded producer on the set will report.
> >> >
> >> * I'm not joking. There was a notorious case where a secretary got a co-production credit on a huge movie for carrying the script for the movie in to the producer's office...
> >> >
> >> An experienced actor with a strong personality like Baldwin can either be a real producer (a common event these days), or just demand to be pandered to by the producer and line producer. They would in any event certainly listen to a suggestion that he likes working with A N Othershooter as an armorer. On any production with a big star there are umpteen people who owe their inclusion in the production to the star; even where this is not the case, people on a production don't like saying "no" to a star.
> >> >
> >> Andre Jute
> >> Innocents abroad in Chaosland can do worse than read William Goldman's Adventures in the Screen Trade
> >> >
> >
> >I'd say that Flunky shows his worth by posting under a pseudonym
> Imo, identifying yourself on social media is like an invitation for
> contact above and beyond social media, such as advertising your
> business. Using a pseudonym simply means the only contact I want to
> have with you is inside the social media platform.

>
Poor Flunky, objecting to my proof that he doesn't know what he's talking about in film production, claims
"everything you wrote confirms what I wrote, especially[:]"
>
Let's see, comparing only the two key sentences, mine chosen by Flunky and elevated by his "especially"!
>
Flunky [illiteracies corrected]: "It isn't likely someone at Baldwin[']s level [will] have much input at all into hiring the armorer or any other member of the crew."
>
Jute: "They would in any event certainly listen to a suggestion that he [Baldwin] likes working with A N Othershooter as an armorer."
>
The same? Nope, the diametric opposite. This is all the proof required of my assertion that Flunky is at best semi-literate and totally irrational.
>
Need more proof? Here are some more sentences from my paragraph that Flunky claims "especially" proves that I agree with him. A blind monkey can see I said exactly the opposite:
>
Jute: "An experienced actor with a strong personality like Baldwin can either be a real producer (a common event these days), or just demand to be pandered to by the producer and line producer."
>
Jute: "On any production with a big star there are umpteen people who owe their inclusion in the production to the star; even where this is not the case, people on a production don't like saying 'no' to a star."
>
That's three statement from me that Flunky claims agrees with him, where each of them is the diametric opposite of what he said. One has to wonder whether his mother tongue is English. Yo, Flunky, if you don't understand what I say, tell me which language you were brought up in, and the chances are that I am as articulate in it as in English. At least everyone else won't know when I demonstrate in your mother tongue that you are an accident-prone fuckwit driven by your insensate rage at your betters.
>
Andre Jute
Notice that Flunky didn't even know that the key position in this tragedy (as we'll hear when the case comes to court, if the prosecutor is competent) is the *line* producer, until I told him, and then Flunky, on the basis of a one-second hit on Variety, claims not only expertise but knowledge that supersedes mine. What a worthless wanker.
>

On 1/24/2023 2:33 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 17:13:51 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 3:32:45 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
>>> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 10:53:10 PM UTC, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 7:56:49 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 1/23/2023 9:25 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 9:53:50 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/20/2023 8:32 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>>>>>>> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:27:13 -0500, Catrike Rider
>>>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Alec Baldwin has been criminally charged in connection with the “Rustâ€
>>>>>>>>>> shooting which left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> New Mexico prosecutors charged both Baldwin and armorer Hannah
>>>>>>>>>> Gutierrez-Reed with two federal counts of involuntary manslaughter
>>>>>>>>>> over the death of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust†film set in October
>>>>>>>>>> 2021, when a real bullet was loaded into a prop gun. Alec Baldwin has
>>>>>>>>>> been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust†shooting which
>>>>>>>>>> left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> After a thorough review of the evidence and the laws of the state of
>>>>>>>>>> New Mexico, I have determined that there is sufficient evidence to
>>>>>>>>>> file criminal charges against Alec Baldwin and other members of the
>>>>>>>>>> ‘Rust’ film crew,†Carmack-Altwies said. On my watch, no one is above
>>>>>>>>>> the law, and everyone deserves justice.â€
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the loaded gun,
>>>>>>>>>> accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The long-awaited decision to charge the “30 Rock†star and three
>>>>>>>>>> others came after a meticulous investigation revealed all bore
>>>>>>>>>> responsibility for the shooting that killed married mom Halyna
>>>>>>>>>> Hutchins, 42 and injured Joel Souza, 49.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Each defendant will get a preliminary court hearing within 60 days to
>>>>>>>>>> determine if there is probable cause to go to trial, prosecutors
>>>>>>>>>> said.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> While Carmack-Altwies previously acknowledged Baldwin was responsible
>>>>>>>>>> for firing the fatal round, she said “many individuals†on-set had
>>>>>>>>>> handled the gun prior to the tragedy and could be criminally liable.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> During the initial investigation, detectives from the Santa Fe
>>>>>>>>>> Sheriff’s Office said they found a mixture of dummy and live rounds
>>>>>>>>>> scattered throughout the set, which is a violation of industry safety
>>>>>>>>>> standards. At the time, Carmack-Altwies said determining how the live
>>>>>>>>>> rounds got to the set “will be one of the most important factors going
>>>>>>>>>> into a charging decision.â€
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The crew member in charge of ammo and weapons on set, armorer Hannah
>>>>>>>>>> Gutierrez-Reed, has repeatedly denied responsibility for the shooting.
>>>>>>>>>> In January, she filed suit against the props company that supplied the
>>>>>>>>>> rounds, alleging they sold blanks and lives mixed together.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At the time of the shooting, Baldwin was sitting on a pew in a mock
>>>>>>>>>> church at the Bonanza Creek Ranch rehearsing a cross draw as Hutchins
>>>>>>>>>> and Souza stood behind the camera.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As he rehearsed, he pulled out the gun, pointed it directly at the
>>>>>>>>>> camera and fired a single bullet that struck both Hutchins and Souza.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Emmy winner has repeatedly denied pulling the trigger, saying the
>>>>>>>>>> gun went off accidentally, but an FBI forensic report released in
>>>>>>>>>> August concluded the firearm couldn’t have gone off unless someone
>>>>>>>>>> pulled the trigger.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Souza told police he recalled hearing the phrase “cold gun†while
>>>>>>>>>> preparing for the scene, indicating the firearm wasn’t loaded and was
>>>>>>>>>> safe for use, but he couldn’t remember if the gun had been checked
>>>>>>>>>> before it was handed to Baldwin.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> More at:
>>>>>>>>>> https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you pick up or are handed a gun, the first thing you do is check if
>>>>>>>>>> it's loaded. If you don't know how to check, you don't touch it, or
>>>>>>>>>> assume that it's loaded. At any rate you always handle a gun loaded or
>>>>>>>>>> not, as if it's loaded.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One thing I wonder about. There is a very distinct difference between
>>>>>>>>> "blank" cartridges and "loaded" cartridges both in appearance and in
>>>>>>>>> weight. Sufficiently that it seems very odd that anyone could mix them
>>>>>>>>> up.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actors are typically hired for their acting skills, not for their knowledge
>>>>>>>> of munitions. While Baldwin may have pulled the trigger, set safety should
>>>>>>>> not rely on an actor being able to differentiate a loaded cartridge from a
>>>>>>>> blank.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, that's right.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He's more than an actor in this venture, he's the producer.
>>>>>>> In that capacity, he hired a novice (=less expensive)
>>>>>>> armorer. There's also the matter of live cartridges on set,
>>>>>>> from a prior production, which Mr Baldwin refused to return
>>>>>>> when asked. Add in occasional plinking in the desert by cast
>>>>>>> members (exactly who? I don't know) during breaks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Messy all around. It will be arduous to sort out the
>>>>>>> relevant facts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To your point, Mr Baldwin has maintained he 'never pulled
>>>>>>> the trigger' but FBI analysis shows that is not possible in
>>>>>>> a Colt Single Action Army. So why would he say that? Another
>>>>>>> confounding set of conflicting items.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do not yet have an opinion. I think it's prudent to
>>>>>>> reserve judgement for a while yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the interested reader, Colt Single Action Army is a bit
>>>>>>> different from modern pistol designs:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.bevfitchett.us/colt-army-revolver/hammer-positions.html
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Baldwin wasn't _the_ producer, he was _a_ producer, one of several. According to IMDB the credited producers on the film were Alec Baldwin, Matt DelPiano, Ryan Donnell Smith, Anjul Nigam, Ryan Winterstern, and Nathan Klingher. Producers in this capacity are more like investors. The contribute money to the project, and depending on their level of investment and contractual agreement, may have anywhere from no say at all into the production up to casting and scripting decisions. It isn't likely someone at Baldwins level have much input at all into hiring the armorer or any other member of the crew.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>> I did not realize that 'producer' is a committee.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still and all, this is not a simple case and woe to the jury.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>> This reminds me of that Scharf trick of proving me wring about the $123 roast by only showing the first half of the sales bulletin. That there are several producers doesn't mean much if Baldwin hired the armorer and gave her orders and if she was incompetent and he was too stupid to know that. So as usual Flunky, like Liebermann, is an expert at all he surveys which is nothing at all.
>>>>
>>> In any event that moron Flunky got it altogether wrong. The guy with the yes-power is the last executive producer whose name appears on the screen. The guy who actually operates the filming site is the line producer. There is a producer above the line producer, and he's the last credit onscreen before the director. All the rest may just be CV-building credits*, or they may be embedded snitches for the financiers of a movie. Let's say BBC TV has a contract with a writer and a production company but doesn't want to risk all the money of an expensive production, then they part out pieces of the exhibition rights to, say, a German and a French broadcaster, and bring in Canadian TV as well, and then discover the production will be even more expensive than anyone thought, and so a star has to be brought in, which ups the ante but acts as a sort of guarantee of the return, so Netflix comes in for say half the cost and gives a star they may have under contract for x number of production
s
Click here to read the complete article

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 8:27:17 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> >
> Poor Flunky, objecting to my proof that he doesn't know what he's talking about in film production, claims
> "everything you wrote confirms what I wrote, especially[:]"
> >
> Let's see, comparing only the two key sentences, mine chosen by Flunky and elevated by his "especially"!
> >
> Flunky [illiteracies corrected]: "It isn't likely someone at Baldwin[']s level [will] have much input at all into hiring the armorer or any other member of the crew."
> >
> Jute: "They would in any event certainly listen to a suggestion that he [Baldwin] likes working with A N Othershooter as an armorer."
> >
> The same? Nope, the diametric opposite. This is all the proof required of my assertion that Flunky is at best semi-literate and totally irrational.
> >
> Need more proof? Here are some more sentences from my paragraph that Flunky claims "especially" proves that I agree with him. A blind monkey can see I said exactly the opposite:
> >
> Jute: "An experienced actor with a strong personality like Baldwin can either be a real producer (a common event these days), or just demand to be pandered to by the producer and line producer."
> >
> Jute: "On any production with a big star there are umpteen people who owe their inclusion in the production to the star; even where this is not the case, people on a production don't like saying 'no' to a star."
> >
> That's three statement from me that Flunky claims agrees with him, where each of them is the diametric opposite of what he said. One has to wonder whether his mother tongue is English. Yo, Flunky, if you don't understand what I say, tell me which language you were brought up in, and the chances are that I am as articulate in it as in English. At least everyone else won't know when I demonstrate in your mother tongue that you are an accident-prone fuckwit driven by your insensate rage at your betters.
> >
> Andre Jute
> Notice that Flunky didn't even know that the key position in this tragedy (as we'll hear when the case comes to court, if the prosecutor is competent) is the *line* producer, until I told him, and then Flunky, on the basis of a one-second hit on Variety, claims not only expertise but knowledge that supersedes mine. What a worthless wanker.
> >

I am especially interested in why Flunky continues to talk about things he knows nothing about. If he was INDEED an engineering manager as he claimed he was he would know that if his boss told him to hire someone he doesn't know over someone that he does know, that the boss would trump his choice. Don't you find it strange that he thinks that a producer isn't over the HR person on a film?

Firstly, he has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that he is not an engineering manager and secondly he has never said anything that would lead anyone to the conclusion that he is even an engineer. Perhaps he was a Liebermann type of Engineer - someone that can't actually do anything but they needed a degree to sign
off on things. Poor Liebermann, no one would even trust him for that.

My fist engineering job with Thoratec since I didn't have a degree they referred to me as an "Engineering Specialist". The was the last time they didn't refer to me as an engineer or a senior engineer.

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 11:27:17 AM UTC-5, the ignorant arrogant angry little afro-irish troll sharted:
> >
< snipped sharting, feel free to read above if you wish>
> >
> That's three statement from me that Flunky claims agrees with him, where each of them is the diametric opposite of what he said.

Not even close. Diametrically opposed to what I wrote would be 'baldwin had complete control over the entire production of the film'. You admitted not only is that _not_ the case, but at _best_ people _may_ kowtow to his wishes.

> One has to wonder whether his mother tongue is English. Yo, Flunky, if you don't understand what I say, tell me which language you were brought up in, and the chances are that I am as articulate in it as in English.

I understand you better than you understand yourself, you narcissistic little prick.

> At least everyone else won't know when I demonstrate in your mother tongue that you are an accident-prone fuckwit driven by your insensate rage at your betters.

gee skippy, tell us again about how you studied under Popper for you dissertation. It must be right up there with being pursued by death squads.

> >
> Andre Jute
> Notice that Flunky didn't even know that the key position in this tragedy (as we'll hear when the case comes to court, if the prosecutor is competent) is the *line* producer, until I told him, and then Flunky, on the basis of a one-second hit on Variety, claims not only expertise but knowledge that supersedes mine. What a worthless wanker.

You are completely incapable of telling me anything I don't already know. FWIW - I never claimed any expertise in movie production, mr. mitty. As usual, you can't see past the point on your little troll head. You claim without any citation whatsoever that baldwin was responsible for the hire. I proved that wrong with a simple post from one of the many search results.

The only thing you're an expert in is being an arrogant asshole -such a wonderful legacy to leaving this world with.

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 11:39:57 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > >
> I am especially interested in why Flunky continues to talk about things he knows nothing about. If he was INDEED an engineering manager as he claimed he was

Dear Stupid,
Please read the following very slowly, and concentrate on reading comprehension:

I never stated I was an engineering manager.

Read it several times, very slowly, and allow it to sink in.

>
> My fist engineering job with Thoratec since I didn't have a degree they referred to me as an "Engineering Specialist". The was the last time they didn't refer to me as an engineer or a senior engineer.

liar.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 10:28:41 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 1/24/2023 2:33 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 17:13:51 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 3:32:45 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
>>>> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 10:53:10 PM UTC, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 7:56:49 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/23/2023 9:25 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 9:53:50 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/20/2023 8:32 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>>>>>>>> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:27:13 -0500, Catrike Rider
>>>>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Alec Baldwin has been criminally charged in connection with the “Rustâ€
>>>>>>>>>>> shooting which left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> New Mexico prosecutors charged both Baldwin and armorer Hannah
>>>>>>>>>>> Gutierrez-Reed with two federal counts of involuntary manslaughter
>>>>>>>>>>> over the death of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust†film set in October
>>>>>>>>>>> 2021, when a real bullet was loaded into a prop gun. Alec Baldwin has
>>>>>>>>>>> been criminally charged in connection with the “Rust†shooting which
>>>>>>>>>>> left a cinematographer dead, prosecutors said Thursday.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> After a thorough review of the evidence and the laws of the state of
>>>>>>>>>>> New Mexico, I have determined that there is sufficient evidence to
>>>>>>>>>>> file criminal charges against Alec Baldwin and other members of the
>>>>>>>>>>> ‘Rust’ film crew,†Carmack-Altwies said. On my watch, no one is above
>>>>>>>>>>> the law, and everyone deserves justice.â€
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the loaded gun,
>>>>>>>>>>> accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The long-awaited decision to charge the “30 Rock†star and three
>>>>>>>>>>> others came after a meticulous investigation revealed all bore
>>>>>>>>>>> responsibility for the shooting that killed married mom Halyna
>>>>>>>>>>> Hutchins, 42 and injured Joel Souza, 49.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Each defendant will get a preliminary court hearing within 60 days to
>>>>>>>>>>> determine if there is probable cause to go to trial, prosecutors
>>>>>>>>>>> said.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> While Carmack-Altwies previously acknowledged Baldwin was responsible
>>>>>>>>>>> for firing the fatal round, she said “many individuals†on-set had
>>>>>>>>>>> handled the gun prior to the tragedy and could be criminally liable.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> During the initial investigation, detectives from the Santa Fe
>>>>>>>>>>> Sheriff’s Office said they found a mixture of dummy and live rounds
>>>>>>>>>>> scattered throughout the set, which is a violation of industry safety
>>>>>>>>>>> standards. At the time, Carmack-Altwies said determining how the live
>>>>>>>>>>> rounds got to the set “will be one of the most important factors going
>>>>>>>>>>> into a charging decision.â€
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The crew member in charge of ammo and weapons on set, armorer Hannah
>>>>>>>>>>> Gutierrez-Reed, has repeatedly denied responsibility for the shooting.
>>>>>>>>>>> In January, she filed suit against the props company that supplied the
>>>>>>>>>>> rounds, alleging they sold blanks and lives mixed together.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> At the time of the shooting, Baldwin was sitting on a pew in a mock
>>>>>>>>>>> church at the Bonanza Creek Ranch rehearsing a cross draw as Hutchins
>>>>>>>>>>> and Souza stood behind the camera.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As he rehearsed, he pulled out the gun, pointed it directly at the
>>>>>>>>>>> camera and fired a single bullet that struck both Hutchins and Souza.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Emmy winner has repeatedly denied pulling the trigger, saying the
>>>>>>>>>>> gun went off accidentally, but an FBI forensic report released in
>>>>>>>>>>> August concluded the firearm couldn’t have gone off unless someone
>>>>>>>>>>> pulled the trigger.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Souza told police he recalled hearing the phrase “cold gun†while
>>>>>>>>>>> preparing for the scene, indicating the firearm wasn’t loaded and was
>>>>>>>>>>> safe for use, but he couldn’t remember if the gun had been checked
>>>>>>>>>>> before it was handed to Baldwin.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> More at:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you pick up or are handed a gun, the first thing you do is check if
>>>>>>>>>>> it's loaded. If you don't know how to check, you don't touch it, or
>>>>>>>>>>> assume that it's loaded. At any rate you always handle a gun loaded or
>>>>>>>>>>> not, as if it's loaded.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One thing I wonder about. There is a very distinct difference between
>>>>>>>>>> "blank" cartridges and "loaded" cartridges both in appearance and in
>>>>>>>>>> weight. Sufficiently that it seems very odd that anyone could mix them
>>>>>>>>>> up.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Actors are typically hired for their acting skills, not for their knowledge
>>>>>>>>> of munitions. While Baldwin may have pulled the trigger, set safety should
>>>>>>>>> not rely on an actor being able to differentiate a loaded cartridge from a
>>>>>>>>> blank.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, that's right.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He's more than an actor in this venture, he's the producer.
>>>>>>>> In that capacity, he hired a novice (=less expensive)
>>>>>>>> armorer. There's also the matter of live cartridges on set,
>>>>>>>> from a prior production, which Mr Baldwin refused to return
>>>>>>>> when asked. Add in occasional plinking in the desert by cast
>>>>>>>> members (exactly who? I don't know) during breaks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Messy all around. It will be arduous to sort out the
>>>>>>>> relevant facts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To your point, Mr Baldwin has maintained he 'never pulled
>>>>>>>> the trigger' but FBI analysis shows that is not possible in
>>>>>>>> a Colt Single Action Army. So why would he say that? Another
>>>>>>>> confounding set of conflicting items.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do not yet have an opinion. I think it's prudent to
>>>>>>>> reserve judgement for a while yet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the interested reader, Colt Single Action Army is a bit
>>>>>>>> different from modern pistol designs:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.bevfitchett.us/colt-army-revolver/hammer-positions.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Baldwin wasn't _the_ producer, he was _a_ producer, one of several. According to IMDB the credited producers on the film were Alec Baldwin, Matt DelPiano, Ryan Donnell Smith, Anjul Nigam, Ryan Winterstern, and Nathan Klingher. Producers in this capacity are more like investors. The contribute money to the project, and depending on their level of investment and contractual agreement, may have anywhere from no say at all into the production up to casting and scripting decisions. It isn't likely someone at Baldwins level have much input at all into hiring the armorer or any other member of the crew.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>> I did not realize that 'producer' is a committee.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still and all, this is not a simple case and woe to the jury.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>> This reminds me of that Scharf trick of proving me wring about the $123 roast by only showing the first half of the sales bulletin. That there are several producers doesn't mean much if Baldwin hired the armorer and gave her orders and if she was incompetent and he was too stupid to know that. So as usual Flunky, like Liebermann, is an expert at all he surveys which is nothing at all.
>>>>>
>>>> In any event that moron Flunky got it altogether wrong. The guy with the yes-power is the last executive producer whose name appears on the screen. The guy who actually operates the filming site is the line producer. There is a producer above the line producer, and he's the last credit onscreen before the director. All the rest may just be CV-building credits*, or they may be embedded snitches for the financiers of a movie. Let's say BBC TV has a contract with a writer and a production company but doesn't want to risk all the money of an expensive production, then they part out pieces of the exhibition rights to, say, a German and a French broadcaster, and bring in Canadian TV as well, and then discover the production will be even more expensive than anyone thought, and so a star has to be brought in, which ups the ante but acts as a sort of guarantee of the return, so Netflix comes in for say half the cost and gives a star they may have under contract for x number of production
>s
>>> to this production. All these institutions and people have what for them is a huge amount of money on the line, and they name co-producers who, as I said already, are commonly knowledgeable snitches. They're very unlikely to have script approval, or anything like it; if the production company has serious rights, the person with the yes-power can be found in the rollers at the back of the film, among those listed as "executive producer for XYZ Distant Broadcaster", to whom their embedded producer on the set will report.
>>>>>
>>>> * I'm not joking. There was a notorious case where a secretary got a co-production credit on a huge movie for carrying the script for the movie in to the producer's office...
>>>>>
>>>> An experienced actor with a strong personality like Baldwin can either be a real producer (a common event these days), or just demand to be pandered to by the producer and line producer. They would in any event certainly listen to a suggestion that he likes working with A N Othershooter as an armorer. On any production with a big star there are umpteen people who owe their inclusion in the production to the star; even where this is not the case, people on a production don't like saying "no" to a star.
>>>>>
>>>> Andre Jute
>>>> Innocents abroad in Chaosland can do worse than read William Goldman's Adventures in the Screen Trade
>>>>>
>>>
>>> I'd say that Flunky shows his worth by posting under a pseudonym
>>
>> Imo, identifying yourself on social media is like an invitation for
>> contact above and beyond social media, such as advertising your
>> business. Using a pseudonym simply means the only contact I want to
>> have with you is inside the social media platform.
>>
>I haven't seen a problem in 25+ years.