On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 10:38:36 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 1/26/2023 10:31 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 20:47:17 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> BTW, speaking of vise grips, here's a mechanical tip: When working with drivers that have screwdriver
>>> style handles, I've sometimes applied additional torque by clamping vise grip pliers onto the driver handle.
>>
>> Wow, did you come up with that all by yourself or did you read it in a
>> Tools for Dummies book?
>>
>> Actually, that's a good way to ruin a "screwdriver style handle."

>We use screwdrivers with wrench flats
>https://cdn-reichelt.de/bilder/web/xxl_ws/D310/WI531.png

If you have any Craftsman screwdrivers with handles like these:
<https://www.sears.com/craftsman-17-pc-screwdriver-set/p-00931794000P>
a 24 mm 12 point box or combination wrench will fit over the plastic
handle and act as a torque amplifier.

Locking vise grip pliers have their uses. Destroying and "rounding"
fastener heads and nuts are some of those uses.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 11:17:14 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 10:38:36 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>On 1/26/2023 10:31 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 20:47:17 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> BTW, speaking of vise grips, here's a mechanical tip: When working with drivers that have screwdriver
>>>> style handles, I've sometimes applied additional torque by clamping vise grip pliers onto the driver handle.
>>>
>>> Wow, did you come up with that all by yourself or did you read it in a
>>> Tools for Dummies book?
>>>
>>> Actually, that's a good way to ruin a "screwdriver style handle."
>
>>We use screwdrivers with wrench flats
>>https://cdn-reichelt.de/bilder/web/xxl_ws/D310/WI531.png
>
>If you have any Craftsman screwdrivers with handles like these:
><https://www.sears.com/craftsman-17-pc-screwdriver-set/p-00931794000P>
>a 24 mm 12 point box or combination wrench will fit over the plastic
>handle and act as a torque amplifier.
>
>Locking vise grip pliers have their uses. Destroying and "rounding"
>fastener heads and nuts are some of those uses.

+1

On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 8:20:37 AM UTC-8, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 5:46:13 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> > On 1/23/2023 11:03 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> > > For your amusement, I was looking at photos of 4 inch crescent
> > > wrenches and found this item:
> > > <https://countycomm.com/products/adjustable-wrench-titanium-4-inch-nsn-pending>
> > Only 0.52" jaw opening.
> >
> > I use this one with about a 1" opening (actually about 1¹⁄₁₆"):
> > <https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832662508203.html>. It's quite well
> > made. I put one into each bike's tool bag since they're so inexpensive.
> Off topic but I wondered if I could get a Ford wrench in that size. Google says no.
>
> I have a full size Ford wrench probably from a yard sale or thrift shop. It sat on my desk several years before someone recognized it, I didn't know what it was either. I've used it once and once only, but I needed to change the washer on an outdoor faucet with limited clearance and it was the only thing I owned that would grip that large hexagonal nut on the faucet.

That pothole hit on Tuesday ride almost popped the tire off of the rim and slightly misaligned the Campy Shamals. Last night I went down to repair the problems for today's ride and the nipples on that Shamal are something like 5 or 6 mm hex. Of course I didn't have an open end wrench that size but a 6" Crescent wrench could be adjust to the proper size and was wide enough not to strip the nipple as an open end that size would. Obviously Campy makes a special tool for it but a small Cresent wrench worked perfectly. So much for the conversation about adjustable wrenches not being the proper tool for anything.

On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 8:38:40 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/26/2023 10:31 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 20:47:17 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> BTW, speaking of vise grips, here's a mechanical tip: When working with drivers that have screwdriver
> >> style handles, I've sometimes applied additional torque by clamping vise grip pliers onto the driver handle.
> >
> > Wow, did you come up with that all by yourself or did you read it in a
> > Tools for Dummies book?
> >
> > Actually, that's a good way to ruin a "screwdriver style handle."
> >
> We use screwdrivers with wrench flats
> https://cdn-reichelt.de/bilder/web/xxl_ws/D310/WI531.png
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
https://www.amazon.com/RONMAR-13-Piece-Magnetic-Screwdrivers-T4%E3%80%81T5%E3%80%81T6%E3%80%81T7%E3%80%81T8%E3%80%81T9%E3%80%81T10%E3%80%81T15%E3%80%81T20%E3%80%81T25%E3%80%81T27%E3%80%81T30%E3%80%81T40/dp/B081R3Y9PL/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=5KUB06KTR7ZI&keywords=torx+screwdriver+set&qid=1674769328&sprefix=Torx%2Caps%2C139&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEySzZHTEMzQzFXRDVZJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDAxMzc4MkxUUEZNVFBURDFZWiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDQ2ODI2M1UwUkJVNjhKUU1aVCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU
No flats and unlike idiots, I don't use Vice Grips on other tools.

On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 11:31:25 -0500, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 20:47:17 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>BTW, speaking of vise grips, here's a mechanical tip: When working with drivers that have screwdriver
>>style handles, I've sometimes applied additional torque by clamping vise grip pliers onto the driver handle.
>
>Wow, did you come up with that all by yourself or did you read it in a
>Tools for Dummies book?
>
>Actually, that's a good way to ruin a "screwdriver style handle."

I have a number of screwdrivers with a "hex" section just below the
"hand" grip. Far better then boogering up the handle with a vice
grip.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 1/26/2023 3:21 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 11:31:25 -0500, Catrike Rider
> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 20:47:17 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> BTW, speaking of vise grips, here's a mechanical tip: When working with drivers that have screwdriver
>>> style handles, I've sometimes applied additional torque by clamping vise grip pliers onto the driver handle.
>>
>> Wow, did you come up with that all by yourself or did you read it in a
>> Tools for Dummies book?
>>
>> Actually, that's a good way to ruin a "screwdriver style handle."
>
> I have a number of screwdrivers with a "hex" section just below the
> "hand" grip. Far better then boogering up the handle with a vice
> grip.

Yeah, using a vise grip on a screwdriver handle is not a particularly
good idea.

Use a Torx bit with a bit adapter for a ratchet would be the proper method.

The good thing is that a Torx-head bolt can withstand a LOT of torque
without the head being stripped.

On 1/26/2023 2:17 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> If you have any Craftsman screwdrivers with handles like these:
> <https://www.sears.com/craftsman-17-pc-screwdriver-set/p-00931794000P>
> a 24 mm 12 point box or combination wrench will fit over the plastic
> handle and act as a torque amplifier.

Those are mine. Note the square shafts on all the flat ones. Philips are
round shafts.

> Locking vise grip pliers have their uses. Destroying and "rounding"
> fastener heads and nuts are some of those uses.

It was back in the 1970s that I encountered a pan head screw on which a
previous owner had somehow stripped the head. I still remember my joy at
realizing that the vise grips could get get a bite on the edges of the
head and crank the screw loose. So yes, they can do damage. They can
also be saviors.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/26/2023 6:21 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 11:31:25 -0500, Catrike Rider
> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 20:47:17 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> BTW, speaking of vise grips, here's a mechanical tip: When working with drivers that have screwdriver
>>> style handles, I've sometimes applied additional torque by clamping vise grip pliers onto the driver handle.
>>
>> Wow, did you come up with that all by yourself or did you read it in a
>> Tools for Dummies book?
>>
>> Actually, that's a good way to ruin a "screwdriver style handle."
>
> I have a number of screwdrivers with a "hex" section just below the
> "hand" grip. Far better then boogering up the handle with a vice
> grip.

Sure, as with square shank, that's good if your screwdriver has that.
Obviously, not all screwdrivers do.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/26/2023 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> ... the nipples on that Shamal are something like 5 or 6 mm hex. Of course I didn't have an open end wrench that size...

Really? Why ever not?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/26/2023 5:21 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 11:31:25 -0500, Catrike Rider
> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 20:47:17 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> BTW, speaking of vise grips, here's a mechanical tip: When working with drivers that have screwdriver
>>> style handles, I've sometimes applied additional torque by clamping vise grip pliers onto the driver handle.
>>
>> Wow, did you come up with that all by yourself or did you read it in a
>> Tools for Dummies book?
>>
>> Actually, that's a good way to ruin a "screwdriver style handle."
>
> I have a number of screwdrivers with a "hex" section just below the
> "hand" grip. Far better then boogering up the handle with a vice
> grip.
>

+1 SnapOn and WIHA, great products.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/26/2023 7:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/26/2023 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> ... the nipples on that Shamal are something like 5 or 6
>> mm hex. Of course I didn't have an open end wrench that
>> size...
>
> Really? Why ever not?
>

5.5mm nut drivers are very readily available anywhere
https://rotordisc.dk/images/R-5647.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/26/2023 7:08 PM, sms wrote:
>
>
> Yeah, using a vise grip on a screwdriver handle is not a particularly
> good idea.

It depends on your objective. If you aim to preserve your tools in
pristine, brand-new condition, suitable for framing, it's not a good idea.

If your objective is to get the job done, it can work wonderfully.

I aim to get the job done. My screwdrivers may not be as pretty as some,
but they work fine.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 8:38:40 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/26/2023 7:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 1/26/2023 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> ... the nipples on that Shamal are something like 5 or 6
> >> mm hex. Of course I didn't have an open end wrench that
> >> size...
> >
> > Really? Why ever not?
> >
> 5.5mm nut drivers are very readily available anywhere
> https://rotordisc.dk/images/R-5647.jpg
> --
I think tommy was lamenting the fact that the spoke nipples were a hex nut in a size he didn't have.

On 1/27/2023 4:03 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 8:38:40 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/26/2023 7:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 1/26/2023 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> ... the nipples on that Shamal are something like 5 or 6
>>>> mm hex. Of course I didn't have an open end wrench that
>>>> size...
>>>
>>> Really? Why ever not?
>>>
>> 5.5mm nut drivers are very readily available anywhere
>> https://rotordisc.dk/images/R-5647.jpg
>> --
> I think tommy was lamenting the fact that the spoke nipples were a hex nut in a size he didn't have.
>

meh. All day every day.

We have a dozen drivers for other than exposed square nipples.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/27/2023 5:03 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 8:38:40 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/26/2023 7:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 1/26/2023 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> ... the nipples on that Shamal are something like 5 or 6
>>>> mm hex. Of course I didn't have an open end wrench that
>>>> size...
>>>
>>> Really? Why ever not?
>>>
>> 5.5mm nut drivers are very readily available anywhere
>> https://rotordisc.dk/images/R-5647.jpg
>> --
> I think tommy was lamenting the fact that the spoke nipples were a hex nut in a size he didn't have.

I'm amazed that he wouldn't have a fairly common tool. I work on lots of
things besides bicycles.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 11:09:15 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/27/2023 5:03 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 8:38:40 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 1/26/2023 7:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 1/26/2023 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> ... the nipples on that Shamal are something like 5 or 6
> >>>> mm hex. Of course I didn't have an open end wrench that
> >>>> size...
> >>>
> >>> Really? Why ever not?
> >>>
> >> 5.5mm nut drivers are very readily available anywhere
> >> https://rotordisc.dk/images/R-5647.jpg
> >> --
> > I think tommy was lamenting the fact that the spoke nipples were a hex nut in a size he didn't have.
> I'm amazed that he wouldn't have a fairly common tool. I work on lots of
> things besides bicycles.
>

REmember, we're talking about a guy that tried to by a set of metric torx drivers...

On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 5:38:40 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/26/2023 7:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 1/26/2023 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> ... the nipples on that Shamal are something like 5 or 6
> >> mm hex. Of course I didn't have an open end wrench that
> >> size...
> >
> > Really? Why ever not?
> >
> 5.5mm nut drivers are very readily available anywhere
> https://rotordisc.dk/images/R-5647.jpg

The nipples are external. Tiny open end wrenches can strip the soft aluminum nipple. This is a Campy wheel, you should be able to look the special tool up.

https://www.amazon.com/Campagnolo-Spoke-Wrenches-6mm-Wrench/dp/B001GSKK46/ref=sr_1_7?crid=2PW3KM5Z142E8&keywords=Campagnolo+Shamal+spoke+nipple+wrench&qid=1674839724&sprefix=campagnolo+shamal+spoke+nipple+wrench%2Caps%2C124&sr=8-7

Should I buy a special tool when a crescent wrench works fine?

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 09:18:23 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 5:38:40 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/26/2023 7:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > On 1/26/2023 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> ... the nipples on that Shamal are something like 5 or 6
>> >> mm hex. Of course I didn't have an open end wrench that
>> >> size...
>> >
>> > Really? Why ever not?
>> >
>> 5.5mm nut drivers are very readily available anywhere
>> https://rotordisc.dk/images/R-5647.jpg
>
>The nipples are external. Tiny open end wrenches can strip the soft aluminum nipple. This is a Campy wheel, you should be able to look the special tool up.
>
>https://www.amazon.com/Campagnolo-Spoke-Wrenches-6mm-Wrench/dp/B001GSKK46/ref=sr_1_7?crid=2PW3KM5Z142E8&keywords=Campagnolo+Shamal+spoke+nipple+wrench&qid=1674839724&sprefix=campagnolo+shamal+spoke+nipple+wrench%2Caps%2C124&sr=8-7
>
>Should I buy a special tool when a crescent wrench works fine?

A crescent wrench is a really poor hammer.

On 1/27/2023 11:03 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 11:09:15 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/27/2023 5:03 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 8:38:40 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 1/26/2023 7:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 1/26/2023 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> ... the nipples on that Shamal are something like 5 or 6
>>>>>> mm hex. Of course I didn't have an open end wrench that
>>>>>> size...
>>>>>
>>>>> Really? Why ever not?
>>>>>
>>>> 5.5mm nut drivers are very readily available anywhere
>>>> https://rotordisc.dk/images/R-5647.jpg
>>>> --
>>> I think tommy was lamenting the fact that the spoke nipples were a hex nut in a size he didn't have.
>> I'm amazed that he wouldn't have a fairly common tool. I work on lots of
>> things besides bicycles.
>>
>
> REmember, we're talking about a guy that tried to by a set of metric torx drivers...
>

Were they left handed?

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 09:18:23 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 5:38:40 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/26/2023 7:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > On 1/26/2023 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> ... the nipples on that Shamal are something like 5 or 6
>> >> mm hex. Of course I didn't have an open end wrench that
>> >> size...
>> >
>> > Really? Why ever not?
>> >
>> 5.5mm nut drivers are very readily available anywhere
>> https://rotordisc.dk/images/R-5647.jpg

>The nipples are external. Tiny open end wrenches can strip the soft aluminum nipple. This is a Campy wheel, you should be able to look the special tool up.
>https://www.amazon.com/Campagnolo-Spoke-Wrenches-6mm-Wrench/dp/B001GSKK46/ref=sr_1_7?crid=2PW3KM5Z142E8&keywords=Campagnolo+Shamal+spoke+nipple+wrench&qid=1674839724&sprefix=campagnolo+shamal+spoke+nipple+wrench%2Caps%2C124&sr=8-7

This link is shorter and better:
<https://www.amazon.com/Campagnolo-Spoke-Wrenches-6mm-Wrench/dp/B001GSKK46/>

Why did you point to a 6mm spoke nipple when you were complaining
about 5.5mm?
"Spoke Wrench Selection"
<https://www.parktool.com/en-us/blog/repair-help/spoke-wrench-tool-selection>

>Should I buy a special tool when a crescent wrench works fine?

Yes, you should. The spokes on your wheels are about 50mm apart. The
length of the smallest crescent wrench I could find is 63.5mm (2.5
inches). If you use such a crescent wrench to adjust or replace a
spoke, you will be removing and then replacing the wrench every half
turn (180 degrees). Using a wrench that is shorter than 50mm would be
better.

Incidentally, if a "tiny open end wrench" will strip the soft aluminum
nipple, then literally any open end wrenching tool, which includes all
of the commercially available spoke wrenches, will also strip the soft
aluminum nipple. However, aluminum bicycle nipples are probably not
made from "dead soft" aluminum, but rather from some alloy that has
been hardened, such as 6061-T6.

From what material is your Campagnolo 6mm spoke wrench made? Plastic,
carbon fiber, aluminum, steel, gold, etc?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 1/26/2023 5:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/26/2023 7:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/26/2023 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> ... the nipples on that Shamal are something like 5 or 6
>>> mm hex. Of course I didn't have an open end wrench that
>>> size...
>>
>> Really? Why ever not?
>>
>
> 5.5mm nut drivers are very readily available anywhere

He was looking for a 5.5mm open end wrench. Still pretty commonly available.

<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0001P0VF8>
<https://www.grainger.com/product/6LEZ6>
<https://www.lowes.com/pd/Capri-Tools-Mini-Slim-Open-End-Wrench-Set-Metric-3-2-to-13mm-6-Piece/5005960543>

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 17:32:54 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 1/26/2023 5:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/26/2023 7:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 1/26/2023 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> ... the nipples on that Shamal are something like 5 or 6
>>>> mm hex. Of course I didn't have an open end wrench that
>>>> size...
>>>
>>> Really? Why ever not?
>>>
>>
>> 5.5mm nut drivers are very readily available anywhere
>
>He was looking for a 5.5mm open end wrench. Still pretty commonly available.
>
><https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0001P0VF8>
><https://www.grainger.com/product/6LEZ6>
><https://www.lowes.com/pd/Capri-Tools-Mini-Slim-Open-End-Wrench-Set-Metric-3-2-to-13mm-6-Piece/5005960543>
>

Well... Tommy does have troubles with the more complex problems.
Available, on line, for about $2.00
https://tinyurl.com/mu43czfr
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 9:22:22 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 17:32:54 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
> wrote:
> >On 1/26/2023 5:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 1/26/2023 7:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 1/26/2023 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> ... the nipples on that Shamal are something like 5 or 6
> >>>> mm hex. Of course I didn't have an open end wrench that
> >>>> size...
> >>>
> >>> Really? Why ever not?
> >>>
> >>
> >> 5.5mm nut drivers are very readily available anywhere
> >
> >He was looking for a 5.5mm open end wrench. Still pretty commonly available.
> >
> ><https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0001P0VF8>
> ><https://www.grainger.com/product/6LEZ6>
> ><https://www.lowes.com/pd/Capri-Tools-Mini-Slim-Open-End-Wrench-Set-Metric-3-2-to-13mm-6-Piece/5005960543>
> >
> Well... Tommy does have troubles with the more complex problems.
> Available, on line, for about $2.00
> https://tinyurl.com/mu43czfr
> --

Tommy has troubles with the simple problems.

Congratulations John, BTW - Tommy's taken you off his 'stupid' list. You must be so proud!

Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
> Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca> writes:
>
>> On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 8:27:29 a.m. UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/24/2023 9:12 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 2:42:59 a.m. UTC-5,
>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> Big snip
>>>>> I didn't say the 4 inch crescent wrench was junk. I suggested that it
>>>>> was not an appropriate tool for the intended purpose.
>>>> Another big snip
>>>>> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>>>>> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>>>>> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
>>>>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>>>>
>>>> When I worked in bicycle shops the two tools we most feared home
>>>> bicycle repairers using were locking pliers and adjustable
>>>> wrenches. So many times we'd have someone come in with a bike that
>>>> had either locking pliers or an adjustable wrench used on them,
>>>> that our tools would no longer fit the damaged fastener(s).
>>>>
>>>> Add to that that some people think that you really have to reef a
>>>> bolt or nut to tighten it.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>> +1.
>>>
>>> And vice grips
>>> --
>>> Andrew Muzi
>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>
>> Vice Grips is a trademark name for a certain brand of locking pliers. ;<)
>>
>> Cheers
>
> In the King's English I understand they are called "molegrips". In my
> experience they are often called "<insert ethnicity> Crescent wrenches".
>
Ironically should be Kings french or lastly German! As most of the kings
(England) didn’t speak English, hence “prime minster” for George 1st needed
one as he didn’t know English!

Mole grip is what I’ve known as to why they are called that?

Roger Merriman

Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 20:47:17 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> BTW, speaking of vise grips, here's a mechanical tip: When working with
>> drivers that have screwdriver
>> style handles, I've sometimes applied additional torque by clamping vise
>> grip pliers onto the driver handle.
>
> Wow, did you come up with that all by yourself or did you read it in a
> Tools for Dummies book?
>
> Actually, that's a good way to ruin a "screwdriver style handle."
>
I’ve not done that but my old socket set the “screws driver the socket will
attach to, so one can ratchet from there, if needed mosty less about torque
more about getting at something!

Roger Merriman