Chine or Russia shoots down JWT?
What would happen?

On 07/01/2022 12:22, StarDust wrote:
> Chine or Russia shoots down JWT?
> What would happen?

It is already too far away from Earth for any military ballistic missile
to catch up with it. An asteroid probe might be able to get there and in
due course maybe we will see a robotic maintenance visit.

Hopefully the Webb telescope will not prove to be myopic at first light.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 04:22:17 -0800 (PST), StarDust <csoka01@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Chine or Russia shoots down JWT?
>What would happen?

Why would they? If either country decided to go to war with us, there
are a lot better space assets for them to target than a difficult to
access research telescope. They'd go for communications and
observation.

In any case, both countries are dependent on the U.S. continuing. The
era of shooting wars between major countries is over. Their attacks
now involve manipulation (like getting Trump elected). Things that
further their economic goals.

On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 6:37:33 AM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 04:22:17 -0800 (PST),
> wrote:
> >Chine or Russia shoots down JWT?
> >What would happen?
> Why would they? If either country decided to go to war with us, there
> are a lot better space assets for them to target than a difficult to
> access research telescope. They'd go for communications and
> observation.
>
> In any case, both countries are dependent on the U.S. continuing. The
> era of shooting wars between major countries is over. Their attacks
> now involve manipulation (like getting Trump elected). Things that
> further their economic goals.

Are you sure the JWT is only for scientific use and has no military purposes?
The Space Shuttle was used for military missions, mater of fact after the Challenger incident the military bought 80% of the launches.

On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 6:37:33 AM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 04:22:17 -0800 (PST),
> >Chine or Russia shoots down JWT?
> >What would happen?
> Why would they? If either country decided to go to war with us, there
> are a lot better space assets for them to target than a difficult to
> access research telescope. They'd go for communications and
> observation.
>
> In any case, both countries are dependent on the U.S. continuing. The
> era of shooting wars between major countries is over. Their attacks
> now involve manipulation (like getting Trump elected). Things that
> further their economic goals.

The space Shuttle was a weapon platform too!
New one is the X-37 robotic shuttle.
I read somewhere, astronauts are the perfect spies.

On 07/01/2022 12.35, StarDust wrote:
> On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 6:37:33 AM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 04:22:17 -0800 (PST),
>> wrote:
>>> Chine or Russia shoots down JWT?

"Down" is kind of tricky. It they shot it now, it'd just cruise right
through the L2 region, as I understand it.

>> In any case, both countries are dependent on the U.S. continuing. The
>> era of shooting wars between major countries is over. Their attacks
>> now involve manipulation (like getting Trump elected). Things that
>> further their economic goals.
>
> Are you sure the JWT is only for scientific use and has no military purposes?

1.5e6 km away would make it pretty useless for Earth-oriented military
purposes. An object in Earth orbit, preferably low Earth orbit, would be
much more useful.

--
Michael F. Stemper
Yes, I am aware that I'm feeding a troll.

Folks, this has drifted so far off course, not to mention going into the
political stream, that it's not going anywhere. lock.gif

On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 10:35:32 -0800 (PST), StarDust <csoka01@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 6:37:33 AM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 04:22:17 -0800 (PST),
>> wrote:
>> >Chine or Russia shoots down JWT?
>> >What would happen?
>> Why would they? If either country decided to go to war with us, there
>> are a lot better space assets for them to target than a difficult to
>> access research telescope. They'd go for communications and
>> observation.
>>
>> In any case, both countries are dependent on the U.S. continuing. The
>> era of shooting wars between major countries is over. Their attacks
>> now involve manipulation (like getting Trump elected). Things that
>> further their economic goals.
>
>Are you sure the JWT is only for scientific use and has no military purposes?
>The Space Shuttle was used for military missions, mater of fact after the Challenger incident the military bought 80% of the launches.

What possible military purpose could an IR telescope located so far
away serve? It can't even see through the atmosphere at most of the
wavelengths it was designed for!

On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 11:06:32 -0800 (PST), StarDust <csoka01@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 6:37:33 AM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 04:22:17 -0800 (PST),
>> >Chine or Russia shoots down JWT?
>> >What would happen?
>> Why would they? If either country decided to go to war with us, there
>> are a lot better space assets for them to target than a difficult to
>> access research telescope. They'd go for communications and
>> observation.
>>
>> In any case, both countries are dependent on the U.S. continuing. The
>> era of shooting wars between major countries is over. Their attacks
>> now involve manipulation (like getting Trump elected). Things that
>> further their economic goals.
>
>The space Shuttle was a weapon platform too!
>New one is the X-37 robotic shuttle.
>I read somewhere, astronauts are the perfect spies.

The Shuttle was a general purpose launch vehicle and space platform
that was openly designed for both civilian and military use.

On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 3:36:29 PM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 11:06:32 -0800 (PST),
> wrote:
> >On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 6:37:33 AM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 04:22:17 -0800 (PST),
> >> >Chine or Russia shoots down JWT?
> >> >What would happen?
> >> Why would they? If either country decided to go to war with us, there
> >> are a lot better space assets for them to target than a difficult to
> >> access research telescope. They'd go for communications and
> >> observation.
> >>
> >> In any case, both countries are dependent on the U.S. continuing. The
> >> era of shooting wars between major countries is over. Their attacks
> >> now involve manipulation (like getting Trump elected). Things that
> >> further their economic goals.
> >
> >The space Shuttle was a weapon platform too!
> >New one is the X-37 robotic shuttle.
> >I read somewhere, astronauts are the perfect spies.
> The Shuttle was a general purpose launch vehicle and space platform
> that was openly designed for both civilian and military use.

Yes, but after the Challenger accident, NASA was screwed, the military bought 80% of the launches.
Clearly remember reading about it back then!
Most space missions are for dual-purposes anyway!
Astronauts are the perfect spies out in space, looking down to us.
What is this secret x-37 robotic shuttle?
https://images01.military.com/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/2019-07/x-37b-vandenberg-2100.jpg?itok=IIFxEmwD
I'm sure it's not for studying bug's sex life out in space?
Militarization of space is going on secretly, I think.

On 07/01/2022 18:35, StarDust wrote:
> On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 6:37:33 AM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 04:22:17 -0800 (PST),
>> wrote:
>>> Chine or Russia shoots down JWT?
>>> What would happen?
>> Why would they? If either country decided to go to war with us, there
>> are a lot better space assets for them to target than a difficult to
>> access research telescope. They'd go for communications and
>> observation.
>>
>> In any case, both countries are dependent on the U.S. continuing. The
>> era of shooting wars between major countries is over. Their attacks
>> now involve manipulation (like getting Trump elected). Things that
>> further their economic goals.
>
> Are you sure the JWT is only for scientific use and has no military purposes?

Yes.

It has no easy way for observing Earth from where it will ultimately be
positioned at L2 along the Earth - Sun axis with its heat shield facing
the sun. It will mostly observe a stripe of sky approximately at right
angles to the instantaneous Earth-Sun axis (by design).

> The Space Shuttle was used for military missions, mater of fact after the Challenger incident the military bought 80% of the launches.

Mostly putting up spy satellites of various sorts into low Earth orbit.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 21:52:32 -0800 (PST), StarDust <csoka01@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 3:36:29 PM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 11:06:32 -0800 (PST),
>> wrote:
>> >On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 6:37:33 AM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 04:22:17 -0800 (PST),
>> >> >Chine or Russia shoots down JWT?
>> >> >What would happen?
>> >> Why would they? If either country decided to go to war with us, there
>> >> are a lot better space assets for them to target than a difficult to
>> >> access research telescope. They'd go for communications and
>> >> observation.
>> >>
>> >> In any case, both countries are dependent on the U.S. continuing. The
>> >> era of shooting wars between major countries is over. Their attacks
>> >> now involve manipulation (like getting Trump elected). Things that
>> >> further their economic goals.
>> >
>> >The space Shuttle was a weapon platform too!
>> >New one is the X-37 robotic shuttle.
>> >I read somewhere, astronauts are the perfect spies.
>> The Shuttle was a general purpose launch vehicle and space platform
>> that was openly designed for both civilian and military use.
>
>Yes, but after the Challenger accident, NASA was screwed, the military bought 80% of the launches.
>Clearly remember reading about it back then!
>Most space missions are for dual-purposes anyway!
>Astronauts are the perfect spies out in space, looking down to us.
>What is this secret x-37 robotic shuttle?
>https://images01.military.com/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/2019-07/x-37b-vandenberg-2100.jpg?itok=IIFxEmwD
>I'm sure it's not for studying bug's sex life out in space?
>Militarization of space is going on secretly, I think.

Maybe it is. But JWST has absolutely no feasible military or
intelligence value.

On Saturday, January 8, 2022 at 3:23:23 AM UTC-6, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 07/01/2022 18:35, StarDust wrote:
> > On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 6:37:33 AM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 04:22:17 -0800 (PST),
> >> wrote:
> >>> Chine or Russia shoots down JWT?
> >>> What would happen?
> >> Why would they? If either country decided to go to war with us, there
> >> are a lot better space assets for them to target than a difficult to
> >> access research telescope. They'd go for communications and
> >> observation.
> >>
> >> In any case, both countries are dependent on the U.S. continuing. The
> >> era of shooting wars between major countries is over. Their attacks
> >> now involve manipulation (like getting Trump elected). Things that
> >> further their economic goals.
> >
> > Are you sure the JWT is only for scientific use and has no military purposes?
> Yes.
>
> It has no easy way for observing Earth from where it will ultimately be
> positioned at L2 along the Earth - Sun axis with its heat shield facing
> the sun. It will mostly observe a stripe of sky approximately at right
> angles to the instantaneous Earth-Sun axis (by design).
<
The sun shield is also an earth shield; at the wavelengths JWST operates
the earth is a somewhat-serious source of unwanted heat.

On 09/01/2022 22:39, MitchAlsup wrote:
> On Saturday, January 8, 2022 at 3:23:23 AM UTC-6, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 07/01/2022 18:35, StarDust wrote:
>>> On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 6:37:33 AM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 04:22:17 -0800 (PST),
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Chine or Russia shoots down JWT?
>>>>> What would happen?
>>>> Why would they? If either country decided to go to war with us, there
>>>> are a lot better space assets for them to target than a difficult to
>>>> access research telescope. They'd go for communications and
>>>> observation.
>>>>
>>>> In any case, both countries are dependent on the U.S. continuing. The
>>>> era of shooting wars between major countries is over. Their attacks
>>>> now involve manipulation (like getting Trump elected). Things that
>>>> further their economic goals.
>>>
>>> Are you sure the JWT is only for scientific use and has no military purposes?
>> Yes.
>>
>> It has no easy way for observing Earth from where it will ultimately be
>> positioned at L2 along the Earth - Sun axis with its heat shield facing
>> the sun. It will mostly observe a stripe of sky approximately at right
>> angles to the instantaneous Earth-Sun axis (by design).
> <
> The sun shield is also an earth shield; at the wavelengths JWST operates
> the earth is a somewhat-serious source of unwanted heat.

The Earth would certainly be thermal IR bright but it would not
represent a significant heat input to the telescope system when compared
to the ~1kW/m^2 coming from the sun. The scope will be in equilibrium
with mostly empty sky at 4K and a tiny distant Earth emitting at ~300K
plus whatever thermal input leaks through the multi layered heat shield.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown