I have a couple of thousandths runout on the grinding disc for my new
end mill sharpening fixture . So I look online and I see diamond single
point wheel dressing doodads . And I think to myself , "Myself , you
should buy some of those so you can true that grinding disc" . So I
bought some cheap ones six for just under 15 bucks . And I got what I
paid for ... these things will cut a standard grindstone like it's
butter , in fact too aggressive to do by hand . I don't know what that
grinding disc is made of , but it cut the diamond point - it also cuts
carbide end mills quite well. The diamond still cuts the regular wheels
like before , but there's a definite flat on the tip where there was a
point before . I did mount the dresser in a collet for the mill part of
this exercise .
--
Snag
"You can lead a dummy to facts
but you can't make him think."

On 5/7/2023 1:56 PM, Snag wrote:
>  I have a couple of thousandths runout on the grinding disc for my new
> end mill sharpening fixture . So I look online and I see diamond single
> point wheel dressing doodads . And I think to myself , "Myself , you
> should buy some of those so you can true that grinding disc" . So I
> bought some cheap ones six for just under 15 bucks . And I got what I
> paid for ... these things will cut a standard grindstone like it's
> butter , in fact too aggressive to do by hand . I don't know what that
> grinding disc is made of , but it cut the diamond point - it also cuts
> carbide end mills quite well. The diamond still cuts the regular wheels
> like before , but there's a definite flat on the tip where there was a
> point before . I did mount the dresser in a collet for the mill part of
> this exercise .

I have asked in the past what the correct way to to true/dress a diamond
wheel and never have gotten an answer that gave me the warm and fuzzy.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
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On 07/05/2023 22:26, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 5/7/2023 1:56 PM, Snag wrote:
>>   I have a couple of thousandths runout on the grinding disc for my
>> new end mill sharpening fixture . So I look online and I see diamond
>> single point wheel dressing doodads . And I think to myself , "Myself
>> , you should buy some of those so you can true that grinding disc" .
>> So I bought some cheap ones six for just under 15 bucks . And I got
>> what I paid for ... these things will cut a standard grindstone like
>> it's butter , in fact too aggressive to do by hand . I don't know
>> what that grinding disc is made of , but it cut the diamond point -
>> it also cuts carbide end mills quite well. The diamond still cuts the
>> regular wheels like before , but there's a definite flat on the tip
>> where there was a point before . I did mount the dresser in a collet
>> for the mill part of this exercise .
>
> I have asked in the past what the correct way to to true/dress a
> diamond wheel and never have gotten an answer that gave me the warm
> and fuzzy.
>
>
I asked about truing a metal matrix diamond wheel back in November 2004
and got this reply.

"Hi. I owned a grinding shop for years and had 12 to 20 machines running
diamond wheels. First (blue the wheel), typically on a surface grinder,
to true the wheel we bought silicon or boron carbide blocks and just ran
the machine over the block - dry cut, about .001 in to the block and
dust collector on... After the wheel looked cleaned up we repeated this
with a .0002 or 3 cut... Secondly, after you true the wheel, sharpen it.
We generally found the mold makers polishing sticks, 220 grit or so held
against the wheel, wet, would sharpen the diamonds a bit and clean out
the excessive brass thus giving the effect of sharpening.

Finally we never removed the wheel from it's hub as that's expensive,
requires re truing etc."

"David Billington" wrote in message news:u397hi$3htn5$1@dont-email.me...
....
Finally we never removed the wheel from it's hub as that's expensive,
requires re truing etc."

-------------------

This is a significant reason why I use HSS instead of carbide, as I have
diamond cup and disk wheels but only the one original spindle adapter for my
surface grinder, and Sopko adapters cost several times what the grinder is
worth. Attempts to turn the correct inside taper to make more haven't been
encouraging. I did use a 1/8" carbide end mill the other day to modify grey
Anderson SB50 housings to fit yellow ones.
http://www.wmsopko.com/

On 08/05/2023 13:10, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "David Billington"  wrote in message news:u397hi$3htn5$1@dont-email.me...
> ...
> Finally we never removed the wheel from it's hub as that's expensive,
> requires re truing etc."
>
> -------------------
>
> This is a significant reason why I use HSS instead of carbide, as I
> have diamond cup and disk wheels but only the one original spindle
> adapter for my surface grinder, and Sopko adapters cost several times
> what the grinder is worth. Attempts to turn the correct inside taper
> to make more haven't been encouraging. I did use a 1/8" carbide end
> mill the other day to modify grey Anderson SB50 housings to fit yellow
> ones.
> http://www.wmsopko.com/
>
I know what you're saying but at least you can buy them new, maybe
you'll be lucky and score a 2nd hand one sometime. I have an Exe surface
grinder http://www.lathes.co.uk/exe-grinder/ and the company closed less
than a decade ago but a former employee taught a young engineer he knew
how to rebuild and service them so there's some support and he bought
all the remaining spares and technical details as I understand it. He
had a spare NOS wheel arbor on ebay at a quite reasonable price so I had
that so I have 2 to play with. I've turned internal tapers in the past
with good success to match an existing arbor so may have a go at making
another sometime. Last internal taper I turned was 1MT to take out the
bulk of the metal with a reamer to finish the last couple of
thousandths, judging by the amount of material removed by the reamer the
taper was a few  0.001" small at the small end which I was happy with. I
hadn't tried to clock the compound precisely to the correct angle as I
had the reamer.

On 5/8/2023 6:12 AM, David Billington wrote:
> On 08/05/2023 13:10, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "David Billington"  wrote in message news:u397hi$3htn5$1@dont-email.me...
>> ...
>> Finally we never removed the wheel from it's hub as that's expensive,
>> requires re truing etc."
>>
>> -------------------
>>
>> This is a significant reason why I use HSS instead of carbide, as I
>> have diamond cup and disk wheels but only the one original spindle
>> adapter for my surface grinder, and Sopko adapters cost several times
>> what the grinder is worth. Attempts to turn the correct inside taper
>> to make more haven't been encouraging. I did use a 1/8" carbide end
>> mill the other day to modify grey Anderson SB50 housings to fit yellow
>> ones.
>> http://www.wmsopko.com/
>>
> I know what you're saying but at least you can buy them new, maybe
> you'll be lucky and score a 2nd hand one sometime. I have an Exe surface
> grinder http://www.lathes.co.uk/exe-grinder/ and the company closed less
> than a decade ago but a former employee taught a young engineer he knew
> how to rebuild and service them so there's some support and he bought
> all the remaining spares and technical details as I understand it. He
> had a spare NOS wheel arbor on ebay at a quite reasonable price so I had
> that so I have 2 to play with. I've turned internal tapers in the past
> with good success to match an existing arbor so may have a go at making
> another sometime. Last internal taper I turned was 1MT to take out the
> bulk of the metal with a reamer to finish the last couple of
> thousandths, judging by the amount of material removed by the reamer the
> taper was a few  0.001" small at the small end which I was happy with. I
> hadn't tried to clock the compound precisely to the correct angle as I
> had the reamer.
>

I have a cheap (relatively) Grizzly 6x12 surface grinder. It was
actually cheaper if you count the stand/cabinet than the Enco (yes MSC
still had some last I looked) than anything else I found at the time. I
was hoping to be able to buy multiple arbors since it was a brand new
machine (a few years ago), but they do not sell an arbor as an assembly.
They do sell all the individual pieces, but by the time you add the
cost of every little screw, weight, etc its pretty darn expensive. For
now I just have a white wheel on the surface grinder, and I have used it
on carbide. There are a fair number of carbide mills in holders that it
ground flats on for a set screw. I don't typically use it on carbide,
but I have. It works. Just not great. After I got the TC grinder I
haven't used the surface grinder much. Mostly because it is not setup
with coolant. I do plan to try it with mist to see if it keeps parts
cool enough to prevent heat warping, but if not I'll eventually set it
up for flood cooling.

Anyway, my plan originally was to have a hard wheel, a soft wheel, and a
diamond wheel for it each on their own arbor. If I do that in the
future I'll probably make arbors. I have multiple lathes mills.
Balancing isn't that hard, and you have to rebalance after you mount a
wheel anyway. You have to nail one taper modestly well and get it
concentric. If you do most of the work in one setup or turn between
centers I think you will likely scrap or have to recut one shaft before
you get it. If you are making a few for different wheels it shouldn't
bet that super critical. If you do think it should be that critical...
well didn't you want to make a small cylinder grinding setup for your
surface grinder anyway?

--
Bob La Londe
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
real machinist

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
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On 5/7/2023 1:56 PM, Snag wrote:
>  I have a couple of thousandths runout on the grinding disc for my new
> end mill sharpening fixture . So I look online and I see diamond single
> point wheel dressing doodads . And I think to myself , "Myself , you
> should buy some of those so you can true that grinding disc" . So I
> bought some cheap ones six for just under 15 bucks . And I got what I
> paid for ... these things will cut a standard grindstone like it's
> butter , in fact too aggressive to do by hand . I don't know what that
> grinding disc is made of , but it cut the diamond point - it also cuts
> carbide end mills quite well. The diamond still cuts the regular wheels
> like before , but there's a definite flat on the tip where there was a
> point before . I did mount the dresser in a collet for the mill part of
> this exercise .

Recent epiphany... sorta. Sometime back I asked similar questions about
dressing and truing diamond wheels. I did get some responses, but there
wasn't really an easy answer. Not like dressing an aluminum oxide wheel
with a diamond nib.

The other day I was making the 18 degree chamfer mill (D-drill), and I
came up with a good way to find my zero on the base round carbide blank
(broken end mill). I took a very light pass on one side, bumped the
tool head around, and took another pass repeating until I had a visibly
uniform width flat the length of the cut. While I know its not perfect
I am sure its "pretty good." The reason I "know" this is that
significantly less than the line width of the degree mark on the head
made a significant visible difference in the line width from end to end
of the flat. Am I going to be making custom production tooling in some
big shop? No. Of course not. Will I get this job done? I'll let you
know when I stop being afraid of it and just do it.

I have no idea how flat the flat face of the diamond wheel is, but if I
set the head to zero, and run the tool across it I get a uniform flat
cut. If I just feed the tool into the face of the wheel, maybe not so
much.

I just did a CAD model to find the zero point I want to use on this tool
yesterday. I might work up the nerve to run it today.

--
Bob La Londe
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
real machinist

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On 5/22/2023 3:39 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 5/7/2023 1:56 PM, Snag wrote:
>>   I have a couple of thousandths runout on the grinding disc for my
>> new end mill sharpening fixture . So I look online and I see diamond
>> single point wheel dressing doodads . And I think to myself , "Myself
>> , you should buy some of those so you can true that grinding disc" .
>> So I bought some cheap ones six for just under 15 bucks . And I got
>> what I paid for ... these things will cut a standard grindstone like
>> it's butter , in fact too aggressive to do by hand . I don't know what
>> that grinding disc is made of , but it cut the diamond point - it also
>> cuts carbide end mills quite well. The diamond still cuts the regular
>> wheels like before , but there's a definite flat on the tip where
>> there was a point before . I did mount the dresser in a collet for the
>> mill part of this exercise .
>
> Recent epiphany... sorta.  Sometime back I asked similar questions about
> dressing and truing diamond wheels.  I did get some responses, but there
> wasn't really an easy answer.  Not like dressing an aluminum oxide wheel
> with a diamond nib.
>
> The other day I was making the 18 degree chamfer mill (D-drill), and I
> came up with a good way to find my zero on the base round carbide blank
> (broken end mill).  I took a very light pass on one side, bumped the
> tool head around, and took another pass repeating until I had a visibly
> uniform width flat the length of the cut.  While I know its not perfect
> I am sure its "pretty good."  The reason I "know" this is that
> significantly less than the line width of the degree mark on the head
> made a significant visible difference in the line width from end to end
> of the flat.  Am I going to be making custom production tooling in some
> big shop?  No.  Of course not.  Will I get this job done? I'll let you
> know when I stop being afraid of it and just do it.
>
> I have no idea how flat the flat face of the diamond wheel is, but if I
> set the head to zero, and run the tool across it I get a uniform flat
> cut.  If I just feed the tool into the face of the wheel, maybe not so
> much.
>
> I just did a CAD model to find the zero point I want to use on this tool
> yesterday.  I might work up the nerve to run it today.
>
>

Standing at the machine with your hand hovering over the e-stop
button ? I ended up shimming the mandrel at the "low" spot , runout is
less than a thou now . But the next time I need to cut a gear I'll be
making a new mandrel to mount the cutters . I ain't takin' that wheel
off that mandrel unless I'm forced to .
--
Snag
"You can lead a dummy to facts
but you can't make him think."

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u4gjta$28rfc$1@dont-email.me...

Recent epiphany... sorta. Sometime back I asked similar questions about
dressing and truing diamond wheels. I did get some responses, but there
wasn't really an easy answer. Not like dressing an aluminum oxide wheel
with a diamond nib.

The other day I was making the 18 degree chamfer mill (D-drill), and I
came up with a good way to find my zero on the base round carbide blank
(broken end mill). I took a very light pass on one side, bumped the
tool head around, and took another pass repeating until I had a visibly
uniform width flat the length of the cut. While I know its not perfect
I am sure its "pretty good." The reason I "know" this is that
significantly less than the line width of the degree mark on the head
made a significant visible difference in the line width from end to end
of the flat. Am I going to be making custom production tooling in some
big shop? No. Of course not. Will I get this job done? I'll let you
know when I stop being afraid of it and just do it.

I have no idea how flat the flat face of the diamond wheel is, but if I
set the head to zero, and run the tool across it I get a uniform flat
cut. If I just feed the tool into the face of the wheel, maybe not so
much.

-----------------------

Are you saying you got good results by grinding slowly with only the highest
area on the undressed diamond wheel?

On 5/23/2023 5:37 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u4gjta$28rfc$1@dont-email.me...
>
> Recent epiphany... sorta.  Sometime back I asked similar questions about
> dressing and truing diamond wheels.  I did get some responses, but there
> wasn't really an easy answer.  Not like dressing an aluminum oxide wheel
> with a diamond nib.
>
> The other day I was making the 18 degree chamfer mill (D-drill), and I
> came up with a good way to find my zero on the base round carbide blank
> (broken end mill).  I took a very light pass on one side, bumped the
> tool head around, and took another pass repeating until I had a visibly
> uniform width flat the length of the cut.  While I know its not perfect
> I am sure its "pretty good."  The reason I "know" this is that
> significantly less than the line width of the degree mark on the head
> made a significant visible difference in the line width from end to end
> of the flat.  Am I going to be making custom production tooling in some
> big shop?  No.  Of course not.  Will I get this job done? I'll let you
> know when I stop being afraid of it and just do it.
>
> I have no idea how flat the flat face of the diamond wheel is, but if I
> set the head to zero, and run the tool across it I get a uniform flat
> cut.  If I just feed the tool into the face of the wheel, maybe not so
> much.
>
> -----------------------
>
> Are you saying you got good results by grinding slowly with only the
> highest area on the undressed diamond wheel?
>

That's exactly what was happening with mine . Maybe a quarter of the
wheel was actually cutting , but it left a very nice surface . I can't
complain , I've salvaged several end mills that were otherwise headed
for the scrap pile .
--
Snag
"You can lead a dummy to facts
but you can't make him think."

On 5/23/2023 3:37 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u4gjta$28rfc$1@dont-email.me...
>
> Recent epiphany... sorta.  Sometime back I asked similar questions about
> dressing and truing diamond wheels.  I did get some responses, but there
> wasn't really an easy answer.  Not like dressing an aluminum oxide wheel
> with a diamond nib.
>
> The other day I was making the 18 degree chamfer mill (D-drill), and I
> came up with a good way to find my zero on the base round carbide blank
> (broken end mill).  I took a very light pass on one side, bumped the
> tool head around, and took another pass repeating until I had a visibly
> uniform width flat the length of the cut.  While I know its not perfect
> I am sure its "pretty good."  The reason I "know" this is that
> significantly less than the line width of the degree mark on the head
> made a significant visible difference in the line width from end to end
> of the flat.  Am I going to be making custom production tooling in some
> big shop?  No.  Of course not.  Will I get this job done? I'll let you
> know when I stop being afraid of it and just do it.
>
> I have no idea how flat the flat face of the diamond wheel is, but if I
> set the head to zero, and run the tool across it I get a uniform flat
> cut.  If I just feed the tool into the face of the wheel, maybe not so
> much.
>
> -----------------------
>
> Are you saying you got good results by grinding slowly with only the
> highest area on the undressed diamond wheel?
>

No I was very aggressive. I have neither the time nor the patience to
take off a tenth at a time.

I was only gentle to find my zero, and for the finish passes.

--
Bob La Londe
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
real machinist

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