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tech / sci.astro.amateur / Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go through

SubjectAuthor
* Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go throughStarDust
`* Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go throughAl Jacks
 +- Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go throughAl Jacks
 `* Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go throughChris L Peterson
  +- Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go throughChris L Peterson
  +* Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go throughQuadibloc
  |`- Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go throughChris L Peterson
  `- Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go throughAl Jacks

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Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go through

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Subject: Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go through
From: csok...@gmail.com (StarDust)
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 by: StarDust - Thu, 24 Feb 2022 06:10 UTC

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:02:56 PM UTC-8, RichA wrote:
> https://phys.org/news/2022-02-axion-dark.html

Russia attacking Ukraine!
War is ON!
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60454795

You worry about your flashlight?
🤔🙄

Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go through

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From: non...@none.com (Al Jacks)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go through
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2022 07:54:04 -0500
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 by: Al Jacks - Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:54 UTC

On 2/24/22 01:10, StarDust wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:02:56 PM UTC-8, RichA wrote:
>> https://phys.org/news/2022-02-axion-dark.html
>
> Russia attacking Ukraine!
> War is ON!
> https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60454795
>
> You worry about your flashlight?
> 🤔🙄
Most of his posts are irrelevant here, seems to whine over the
unimportant for whatever reason. Constantly goes on and on over Musk
and his satellites warning how they'll destroy ground based astronomy,
but when called out on it and corrected (mention of stacking to overcome
it, for example), he either doesn't understand or chooses to ignore the
concept. The same with many of his other complaints here.

Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go through

<sv886d$70s$1@dont-email.me>

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From: non...@none.com (Al Jacks)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go through
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:28:12 -0500
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 by: Al Jacks - Thu, 24 Feb 2022 15:28 UTC

On 2/24/22 10:17, RichA wrote:
> On Thursday, 24 February 2022 at 07:54:09 UTC-5, Al Jacks wrote:
>> On 2/24/22 01:10, StarDust wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:02:56 PM UTC-8, RichA wrote:
>>>> https://phys.org/news/2022-02-axion-dark.html
>>>
>>> Russia attacking Ukraine!
>>> War is ON!
>>> https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60454795
>>>
>>> You worry about your flashlight?
>>> 🤔🙄
>> Most of his posts are irrelevant here, seems to whine over the
>> unimportant for whatever reason. Constantly goes on and on over Musk
>> and his satellites warning how they'll destroy ground based astronomy,
>> but when called out on it and corrected (mention of stacking to overcome
>> it, for example), he either doesn't understand or chooses to ignore the
>> concept. The same with many of his other complaints here.
>
> Yes, professional astronomers who've complained about Musk's constellation of satellites are wrong, but you are right...
What so called "professional" astronomers? Not any reports that I've
read. Your sources are often bogus too.
I'm right because, as any "professional" astronomer knows, simple image
processing techniques will eliminate any issues posed by the satellites.
How many times has this been reiterated to you? 10, 100, 1000?

Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go through

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From: clp...@alumni.caltech.edu (Chris L Peterson)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go through
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 by: Chris L Peterson - Thu, 24 Feb 2022 16:04 UTC

On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 07:17:59 -0800 (PST), RichA <rander3128@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Thursday, 24 February 2022 at 07:54:09 UTC-5, Al Jacks wrote:
>> On 2/24/22 01:10, StarDust wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:02:56 PM UTC-8, RichA wrote:
>> >> https://phys.org/news/2022-02-axion-dark.html
>> >
>> > Russia attacking Ukraine!
>> > War is ON!
>> > https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60454795
>> >
>> > You worry about your flashlight?
>> > ??
>> Most of his posts are irrelevant here, seems to whine over the
>> unimportant for whatever reason. Constantly goes on and on over Musk
>> and his satellites warning how they'll destroy ground based astronomy,
>> but when called out on it and corrected (mention of stacking to overcome
>> it, for example), he either doesn't understand or chooses to ignore the
>> concept. The same with many of his other complaints here.
>
>Yes, professional astronomers who've complained about Musk's constellation of satellites are wrong, but you are right...

Yes, they are wrong in some cases. But if you read closely, you'll see
that the concern is mainly in two areas- interference with just a
couple of survey programs, and possible interference with some radio
astronomy. 99% of professional research is largely unaffected (as is
100% of amateur imaging).

As there is no reason to expect anything other than an increase in
large constellations of satellites, given their broad social value, I
can all but guarantee that we'll see technical solutions that mitigate
their impact on the tiny number of projects where they are a factor.

Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go through

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From: clp...@alumni.caltech.edu (Chris L Peterson)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go through
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 by: Chris L Peterson - Fri, 25 Feb 2022 04:38 UTC

On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 19:23:44 -0800 (PST), RichA <rander3128@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> Yes, they are wrong in some cases. But if you read closely, you'll see
>> that the concern is mainly in two areas- interference with just a
>> couple of survey programs, and possible interference with some radio
>> astronomy. 99% of professional research is largely unaffected (as is
>> 100% of amateur imaging).
>>
>> As there is no reason to expect anything other than an increase in
>> large constellations of satellites, given their broad social value, I
>> can all but guarantee that we'll see technical solutions that mitigate
>> their impact on the tiny number of projects where they are a factor.
>
>You people are living in a fantasy world. You might as well contend they could have fixed the Hubble by simply using image manipulation and processing software. Do any of you even OWN telescopes?

Yes, and I use it a lot. Thousands of images, and never one ruined by
a satellite.

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 by: Quadibloc - Fri, 25 Feb 2022 10:30 UTC

On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 8:23:47 PM UTC-7, RichA wrote:

> You people are living in a fantasy world. You might as well contend
> they could have fixed the Hubble by simply using image manipulation
> and processing software. Do any of you even OWN telescopes?

It's not quite that bad, unwanted spots and streaks of light can be
removed from photographs by image processing software.

However, there's no way to tell if anything was behind them, so such
processed images may be deceptive.

One can deconvolute blurry pictures too. But putting a correcting mirror
in Hubble produced much better results, although still inferior to having a
primary mirror that was properly figured.

John Savard

Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go through

<svah2h$be$1@dont-email.me>

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From: non...@none.com (Al Jacks)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go through
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 07:12:00 -0500
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 by: Al Jacks - Fri, 25 Feb 2022 12:12 UTC

On 2/24/22 22:23, RichA wrote:
> On Thursday, 24 February 2022 at 11:04:58 UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 07:17:59 -0800 (PST), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, 24 February 2022 at 07:54:09 UTC-5, Al Jacks wrote:
>>>> On 2/24/22 01:10, StarDust wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:02:56 PM UTC-8, RichA wrote:
>>>>>> https://phys.org/news/2022-02-axion-dark.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Russia attacking Ukraine!
>>>>> War is ON!
>>>>> https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60454795
>>>>>
>>>>> You worry about your flashlight?
>>>>> ??
>>>> Most of his posts are irrelevant here, seems to whine over the
>>>> unimportant for whatever reason. Constantly goes on and on over Musk
>>>> and his satellites warning how they'll destroy ground based astronomy,
>>>> but when called out on it and corrected (mention of stacking to overcome
>>>> it, for example), he either doesn't understand or chooses to ignore the
>>>> concept. The same with many of his other complaints here.
>>>
>>> Yes, professional astronomers who've complained about Musk's constellation of satellites are wrong, but you are right...
>> Yes, they are wrong in some cases. But if you read closely, you'll see
>> that the concern is mainly in two areas- interference with just a
>> couple of survey programs, and possible interference with some radio
>> astronomy. 99% of professional research is largely unaffected (as is
>> 100% of amateur imaging).
>>
>> As there is no reason to expect anything other than an increase in
>> large constellations of satellites, given their broad social value, I
>> can all but guarantee that we'll see technical solutions that mitigate
>> their impact on the tiny number of projects where they are a factor.
>
> You people are living in a fantasy world. You might as well contend they could have fixed the Hubble by simply using image manipulation and processing software. Do any of you even OWN telescopes?

From the nature of your incessant, irrelevant posts, it sounds like YOU
are the one who actually doesn't own a scope, otherwise you would know
all about image processing techniques. During Hubble's initial years,
there probably wouldn't have been such software, but today, yes. There
are deblur algorithms that can do wonders with such imagery given the
proper techniques and processing.

Why not try a little reading up on these topics sometime, from
legitimate, reputable sources, instead of taking up unnecessary group
space and time with pointless questioning and commentary. When's the
last time YOU actually contributed something useful here instead of
complaining?

Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go through

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From: clp...@alumni.caltech.edu (Chris L Peterson)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: I keep shining a flashlight on a wall, but it won't go through
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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 07:10:39 -0700
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 by: Chris L Peterson - Fri, 25 Feb 2022 14:10 UTC

On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 02:30:25 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 8:23:47 PM UTC-7, RichA wrote:
>
>> You people are living in a fantasy world. You might as well contend
>> they could have fixed the Hubble by simply using image manipulation
>> and processing software. Do any of you even OWN telescopes?
>
>It's not quite that bad, unwanted spots and streaks of light can be
>removed from photographs by image processing software.
>
>However, there's no way to tell if anything was behind them, so such
>processed images may be deceptive.
>
>One can deconvolute blurry pictures too. But putting a correcting mirror
>in Hubble produced much better results, although still inferior to having a
>primary mirror that was properly figured.

It is very rare for an astronomical image to consist of a single
image. You would not want to do this even if there were no satellites.
Airplanes cross my images more often than satellites, and cosmic ray
hits create streaks more than either of these.

Most astronomical images consist of a series that is stacked together
using some kind of median averaging, which automatically removes all
these bright artifacts. The trivial S/N reduction in pixels that have
one less layer stacked does not produce anything visible. It is almost
never necessary to use any image processing techniques to remove
artifacts.

Some scientific imaging utilizes a single image, such as photometric
and astrometric projects. But these are unconcerned with aesthetics,
so streaks only matter if they actually cross the target. Since the
target in these cases is only a few pixels, interference is rare. I
just saw a report the other day regarding that kind of issue with
professional images, and the conclusion was that it was rare enough to
not represent a problem.

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