I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.

Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and a heavier bike will help.

I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and I want to wait till it comes in.

I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires for commuting and the like.

My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
> Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
>
> Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
> since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
> clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
> a heavier bike will help.
>
> I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
> I want to wait till it comes in.
>
> I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
> went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
> Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
> for commuting and the like.

Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!

Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
are durable and puncture resistant.
>
> My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
> all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
>
Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.

Roger Merriman

On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 10:39:03 AM UTC+1, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
> > Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
> >
> > Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
> > since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
> > clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
> > a heavier bike will help.
> >
> > I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
> > I want to wait till it comes in.
> >
> > I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
> > went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
> > Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
> > for commuting and the like.
> Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
> essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
> fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!
>
> Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
> have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
> traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
> are durable and puncture resistant.
> >
> > My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
> > all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
> >
> Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
> tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
> tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.
>
> Roger Merriman

Lou's rule #1: don't ride shitty tires for the reason that they are cheaper or never puncture.

Lou

Lou Holtman <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 10:39:03 AM UTC+1, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
>>> Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
>>>
>>> Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
>>> since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
>>> clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
>>> a heavier bike will help.
>>>
>>> I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
>>> I want to wait till it comes in.
>>>
>>> I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
>>> went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
>>> Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
>>> for commuting and the like.
>> Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
>> essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
>> fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!
>>
>> Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
>> have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
>> traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
>> are durable and puncture resistant.
>>>
>>> My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
>>> all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
>>>
>> Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
>> tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
>> tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> Lou's rule #1: don't ride shitty tires for the reason that they are
> cheaper or never puncture.
>
> Lou
>

On the Gravel bike tubeless has solved that problem for me, ie grippy/light
tires but puncture prone.

Vs commuting/hybrid type tires that will resist thorns etc but
heavy/slow/uncomfortable/slippery etc.

But tubeless makes Gravel tires much easier to live with.

Roger Merriman

On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:39:03 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
> > Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
> >
> > Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
> > since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
> > clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
> > a heavier bike will help.
> >
> > I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
> > I want to wait till it comes in.
> >
> > I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
> > went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
> > Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
> > for commuting and the like.
> Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
> essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
> fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!
>
> Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
> have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
> traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
> are durable and puncture resistant.
> >
> > My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
> > all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
> >
> Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
> tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
> tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.

I generally don't get them because they are HARD to find in 28's. Right now I have a pair on the shelf. I'm trying to decide whether to put them on the Tommasini or save them for my Road Shark named Picaso. I have a feeling that I am going to ride Picaso a while lot this year. The paint scheme alone will draw more attention than a Freeway wreck.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:39:03 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
>>> Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
>>>
>>> Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
>>> since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
>>> clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
>>> a heavier bike will help.
>>>
>>> I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
>>> I want to wait till it comes in.
>>>
>>> I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
>>> went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
>>> Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
>>> for commuting and the like.
>> Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
>> essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
>> fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!
>>
>> Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
>> have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
>> traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
>> are durable and puncture resistant.
>>>
>>> My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
>>> all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
>>>
>> Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
>> tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
>> tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.
>
> I generally don't get them because they are HARD to find in 28's. Right
> now I have a pair on the shelf. I'm trying to decide whether to put them
> on the Tommasini or save them for my Road Shark named Picaso. I have a
> feeling that I am going to ride Picaso a while lot this year. The paint
> scheme alone will draw more attention than a Freeway wreck.
>
Seem to be two versions of Pro4’s the service and endurance but the newer
range is Power, across road/Gravel.

So possibly being discontinued?

Roger Merriman

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:03:23 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:39:03 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
> >>> Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
> >>>
> >>> Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
> >>> since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
> >>> clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
> >>> a heavier bike will help.
> >>>
> >>> I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
> >>> I want to wait till it comes in.
> >>>
> >>> I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
> >>> went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
> >>> Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
> >>> for commuting and the like.
> >> Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
> >> essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
> >> fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!
> >>
> >> Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
> >> have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
> >> traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
> >> are durable and puncture resistant.
> >>>
> >>> My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
> >>> all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
> >>>
> >> Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
> >> tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
> >> tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.
> >
> > I generally don't get them because they are HARD to find in 28's. Right
> > now I have a pair on the shelf. I'm trying to decide whether to put them
> > on the Tommasini or save them for my Road Shark named Picaso. I have a
> > feeling that I am going to ride Picaso a while lot this year. The paint
> > scheme alone will draw more attention than a Freeway wreck.
> >
> Seem to be two versions of Pro4’s the service and endurance but the newer
> range is Power, across road/Gravel.
>
> So possibly being discontinued?
>
> Roger Merriman
No, just that tires are getting hard to find. It turns out that the 25 mm tires I have on the spare Campy wheels are Michelin Pro 4's. They felt faster on the flats and climbing but were slower descending because they didn't have the "give" of the 28's

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 9:20:34 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:03:23 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:39:03 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> > >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
> > >>> Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
> > >>>
> > >>> Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
> > >>> since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
> > >>> clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
> > >>> a heavier bike will help.
> > >>>
> > >>> I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
> > >>> I want to wait till it comes in.
> > >>>
> > >>> I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
> > >>> went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
> > >>> Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
> > >>> for commuting and the like.
> > >> Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
> > >> essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
> > >> fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!
> > >>
> > >> Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
> > >> have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
> > >> traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
> > >> are durable and puncture resistant.
> > >>>
> > >>> My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
> > >>> all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
> > >>>
> > >> Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
> > >> tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
> > >> tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.
> > >
> > > I generally don't get them because they are HARD to find in 28's. Right
> > > now I have a pair on the shelf. I'm trying to decide whether to put them
> > > on the Tommasini or save them for my Road Shark named Picaso. I have a
> > > feeling that I am going to ride Picaso a while lot this year. The paint
> > > scheme alone will draw more attention than a Freeway wreck.
> > >
> > Seem to be two versions of Pro4’s the service and endurance but the newer
> > range is Power, across road/Gravel.
> >
> > So possibly being discontinued?
> >
> > Roger Merriman
> No, just that tires are getting hard to find. It turns out that the 25 mm tires I have on the spare Campy wheels are Michelin Pro 4's. They felt faster on the flats and climbing but were slower descending because they didn't have the "give" of the 28's

https://www.bike-components.de/en/Michelin/Pro-4-Endurance-28-folding-tyres-p44090/?v=59046-black

Readily available here in 23, 25 and 28

Lou

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:03:23 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:39:03 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
>>>>> Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
>>>>> since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
>>>>> clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
>>>>> a heavier bike will help.
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
>>>>> I want to wait till it comes in.
>>>>>
>>>>> I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
>>>>> went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
>>>>> Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
>>>>> for commuting and the like.
>>>> Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
>>>> essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
>>>> fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!
>>>>
>>>> Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
>>>> have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
>>>> traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
>>>> are durable and puncture resistant.
>>>>>
>>>>> My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
>>>>> all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
>>>>>
>>>> Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
>>>> tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
>>>> tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.
>>>
>>> I generally don't get them because they are HARD to find in 28's. Right
>>> now I have a pair on the shelf. I'm trying to decide whether to put them
>>> on the Tommasini or save them for my Road Shark named Picaso. I have a
>>> feeling that I am going to ride Picaso a while lot this year. The paint
>>> scheme alone will draw more attention than a Freeway wreck.
>>>
>> Seem to be two versions of Pro4’s the service and endurance but the newer
>> range is Power, across road/Gravel.
>>
>> So possibly being discontinued?
>>
>> Roger Merriman
> No, just that tires are getting hard to find. It turns out that the 25 mm
> tires I have on the spare Campy wheels are Michelin Pro 4's. They felt
> faster on the flats and climbing but were slower descending because they
> didn't have the "give" of the 28's
>
The Pro range had been 3 before that and presumably 2 and 1 is being
superseded by Power which is old news really as Michelin announced the
power range some 10 years ago though seemed to have kept 2 Pro 4 models or
at least names with the endurance and service not sure why but they never
where on my radar though I have used the Power Gravel which wasn’t a
inspiring tire!

Roger Merriman

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 1:35:18 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 9:20:34 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:03:23 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> > > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:39:03 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> > > >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
> > > >>> Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
> > > >>> since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
> > > >>> clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
> > > >>> a heavier bike will help.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
> > > >>> I want to wait till it comes in.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
> > > >>> went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
> > > >>> Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
> > > >>> for commuting and the like.
> > > >> Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
> > > >> essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
> > > >> fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!
> > > >>
> > > >> Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
> > > >> have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
> > > >> traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
> > > >> are durable and puncture resistant.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
> > > >>> all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
> > > >>>
> > > >> Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
> > > >> tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
> > > >> tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.
> > > >
> > > > I generally don't get them because they are HARD to find in 28's. Right
> > > > now I have a pair on the shelf. I'm trying to decide whether to put them
> > > > on the Tommasini or save them for my Road Shark named Picaso. I have a
> > > > feeling that I am going to ride Picaso a while lot this year. The paint
> > > > scheme alone will draw more attention than a Freeway wreck.
> > > >
> > > Seem to be two versions of Pro4’s the service and endurance but the newer
> > > range is Power, across road/Gravel.
> > >
> > > So possibly being discontinued?
> > >
> > > Roger Merriman
> > No, just that tires are getting hard to find. It turns out that the 25 mm tires I have on the spare Campy wheels are Michelin Pro 4's. They felt faster on the flats and climbing but were slower descending because they didn't have the "give" of the 28's
> https://www.bike-components.de/en/Michelin/Pro-4-Endurance-28-folding-tyres-p44090/?v=59046-black
>
> Readily available here in 23, 25 and 28
>
> Lou
Nice and cheap but that is a special offer.

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 1:49:10 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:03:23 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:39:03 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
> >>>>> Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
> >>>>> since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
> >>>>> clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
> >>>>> a heavier bike will help.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
> >>>>> I want to wait till it comes in.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
> >>>>> went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
> >>>>> Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
> >>>>> for commuting and the like.
> >>>> Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
> >>>> essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
> >>>> fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!
> >>>>
> >>>> Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
> >>>> have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
> >>>> traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
> >>>> are durable and puncture resistant.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
> >>>>> all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
> >>>> tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
> >>>> tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.
> >>>
> >>> I generally don't get them because they are HARD to find in 28's. Right
> >>> now I have a pair on the shelf. I'm trying to decide whether to put them
> >>> on the Tommasini or save them for my Road Shark named Picaso. I have a
> >>> feeling that I am going to ride Picaso a while lot this year. The paint
> >>> scheme alone will draw more attention than a Freeway wreck.
> >>>
> >> Seem to be two versions of Pro4’s the service and endurance but the newer
> >> range is Power, across road/Gravel.
> >>
> >> So possibly being discontinued?
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> > No, just that tires are getting hard to find. It turns out that the 25 mm
> > tires I have on the spare Campy wheels are Michelin Pro 4's. They felt
> > faster on the flats and climbing but were slower descending because they
> > didn't have the "give" of the 28's
> >
> The Pro range had been 3 before that and presumably 2 and 1 is being
> superseded by Power which is old news really as Michelin announced the
> power range some 10 years ago though seemed to have kept 2 Pro 4 models or
> at least names with the endurance and service not sure why but they never
> where on my radar though I have used the Power Gravel which wasn’t a
> inspiring tire!

The "Power" range is an entirely different tire with different characteristics.

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 2:14:22 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 1:49:10 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:03:23 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> > >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:39:03 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> > >>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>> I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
> > >>>>> Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
> > >>>>> since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
> > >>>>> clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
> > >>>>> a heavier bike will help.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
> > >>>>> I want to wait till it comes in.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
> > >>>>> went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
> > >>>>> Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
> > >>>>> for commuting and the like.
> > >>>> Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
> > >>>> essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
> > >>>> fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
> > >>>> have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
> > >>>> traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
> > >>>> are durable and puncture resistant.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
> > >>>>> all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
> > >>>> tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
> > >>>> tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.
> > >>>
> > >>> I generally don't get them because they are HARD to find in 28's. Right
> > >>> now I have a pair on the shelf. I'm trying to decide whether to put them
> > >>> on the Tommasini or save them for my Road Shark named Picaso. I have a
> > >>> feeling that I am going to ride Picaso a while lot this year. The paint
> > >>> scheme alone will draw more attention than a Freeway wreck.
> > >>>
> > >> Seem to be two versions of Pro4’s the service and endurance but the newer
> > >> range is Power, across road/Gravel.
> > >>
> > >> So possibly being discontinued?
> > >>
> > >> Roger Merriman
> > > No, just that tires are getting hard to find. It turns out that the 25 mm
> > > tires I have on the spare Campy wheels are Michelin Pro 4's. They felt
> > > faster on the flats and climbing but were slower descending because they
> > > didn't have the "give" of the 28's
> > >
> > The Pro range had been 3 before that and presumably 2 and 1 is being
> > superseded by Power which is old news really as Michelin announced the
> > power range some 10 years ago though seemed to have kept 2 Pro 4 models or
> > at least names with the endurance and service not sure why but they never
> > where on my radar though I have used the Power Gravel which wasn’t a
> > inspiring tire!
> The "Power" range is an entirely different tire with different characteristics.
I should make that clearer, the Power series shows lower rolling resistance on the drum tests and the Pro 4 shows higher. But when I ride them the Power feels very slow and the Pro 4 just as I rode today, feels fast. Now perhaps this is because the Power has thicker tread or something which doesn't test on the drum like in the real world. But I feel it.

The roads I was on today were mostly dry down on the flats but when I got up in the Canyon, there was mud, water and sandy grit on the roads mostly in the shadowed areas and dry and somewhat dusty on the open sections. On the descent I could only get up to 22 mph or so because although the road was fully paved without potholes it was pretty rough. The 25 mm tires were pumped to 76 front and 82 rear. The Tommasini is a stiff frameset. The Pinarello aluminum fork developed slightly loose headset bearings from the hammering. I've found this to be common with threadless setups. I think that the cups seat a little deeper regardless of how you set them. After the second tightening this doesn't occur again. I would guess that the bottom cup is slightly uneven as purchased and hammers its way to a good fit. But this rarely occurs with threaded headsets. I can only assume that the top cap screw do-giggy doesn't allow you to pull the headset tight enough to minimalize this slight loosening.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 1:49:10 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:03:23 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:39:03 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
>>>>>>> Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
>>>>>>> since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
>>>>>>> clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
>>>>>>> a heavier bike will help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
>>>>>>> I want to wait till it comes in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
>>>>>>> went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
>>>>>>> Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
>>>>>>> for commuting and the like.
>>>>>> Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
>>>>>> essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
>>>>>> fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
>>>>>> have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
>>>>>> traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
>>>>>> are durable and puncture resistant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
>>>>>>> all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
>>>>>> tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
>>>>>> tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> I generally don't get them because they are HARD to find in 28's. Right
>>>>> now I have a pair on the shelf. I'm trying to decide whether to put them
>>>>> on the Tommasini or save them for my Road Shark named Picaso. I have a
>>>>> feeling that I am going to ride Picaso a while lot this year. The paint
>>>>> scheme alone will draw more attention than a Freeway wreck.
>>>>>
>>>> Seem to be two versions of Pro4’s the service and endurance but the newer
>>>> range is Power, across road/Gravel.
>>>>
>>>> So possibly being discontinued?
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>> No, just that tires are getting hard to find. It turns out that the 25 mm
>>> tires I have on the spare Campy wheels are Michelin Pro 4's. They felt
>>> faster on the flats and climbing but were slower descending because they
>>> didn't have the "give" of the 28's
>>>
>> The Pro range had been 3 before that and presumably 2 and 1 is being
>> superseded by Power which is old news really as Michelin announced the
>> power range some 10 years ago though seemed to have kept 2 Pro 4 models or
>> at least names with the endurance and service not sure why but they never
>> where on my radar though I have used the Power Gravel which wasn’t a
>> inspiring tire!
>
> The "Power" range is an entirely different tire with different characteristics.
>
No the Power range was supposed to replace the Pro range.

https://road.cc/content/tech-news/184268-michelin-launches-new-power-competition-endurance-and-all-season-tyres

Though they seems not to have quite ended up like that! With the two Pro 4
models remaining and getting updates would seem, the top end though is the
Power cup competition.

https://www.michelin.co.uk/bicycle/tyres/michelin-power-cup-competition-line

Some tires do remain in production for a long time see Continental
Gatorskins which must be last century?

Roger Merriman

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 4:27:39 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 1:49:10 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:03:23 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:39:03 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
> >>>>>>> Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
> >>>>>>> since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
> >>>>>>> clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
> >>>>>>> a heavier bike will help.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
> >>>>>>> I want to wait till it comes in.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
> >>>>>>> went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
> >>>>>>> Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
> >>>>>>> for commuting and the like.
> >>>>>> Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
> >>>>>> essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
> >>>>>> fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
> >>>>>> have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
> >>>>>> traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
> >>>>>> are durable and puncture resistant.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
> >>>>>>> all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
> >>>>>> tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
> >>>>>> tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I generally don't get them because they are HARD to find in 28's. Right
> >>>>> now I have a pair on the shelf. I'm trying to decide whether to put them
> >>>>> on the Tommasini or save them for my Road Shark named Picaso. I have a
> >>>>> feeling that I am going to ride Picaso a while lot this year. The paint
> >>>>> scheme alone will draw more attention than a Freeway wreck.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Seem to be two versions of Pro4’s the service and endurance but the newer
> >>>> range is Power, across road/Gravel.
> >>>>
> >>>> So possibly being discontinued?
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger Merriman
> >>> No, just that tires are getting hard to find. It turns out that the 25 mm
> >>> tires I have on the spare Campy wheels are Michelin Pro 4's. They felt
> >>> faster on the flats and climbing but were slower descending because they
> >>> didn't have the "give" of the 28's
> >>>
> >> The Pro range had been 3 before that and presumably 2 and 1 is being
> >> superseded by Power which is old news really as Michelin announced the
> >> power range some 10 years ago though seemed to have kept 2 Pro 4 models or
> >> at least names with the endurance and service not sure why but they never
> >> where on my radar though I have used the Power Gravel which wasn’t a
> >> inspiring tire!
> >
> > The "Power" range is an entirely different tire with different characteristics.
> >
> No the Power range was supposed to replace the Pro range.
>
> https://road.cc/content/tech-news/184268-michelin-launches-new-power-competition-endurance-and-all-season-tyres
>
> Though they seems not to have quite ended up like that! With the two Pro 4
> models remaining and getting updates would seem, the top end though is the
> Power cup competition.
>
>
> https://www.michelin.co.uk/bicycle/tyres/michelin-power-cup-competition-line
>
> Some tires do remain in production for a long time see Continental
> Gatorskins which must be last century?
>
> Roger Merriman

Well then you're free to ride them aren't you? I have tried every Continental and Michelin and Vittoria on the market. After you've done that then come back and tell me what is good and what isn't.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 4:27:39 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 1:49:10 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:03:23 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:39:03 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
>>>>>>>>> Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
>>>>>>>>> since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
>>>>>>>>> clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
>>>>>>>>> a heavier bike will help.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
>>>>>>>>> I want to wait till it comes in.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
>>>>>>>>> went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
>>>>>>>>> Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
>>>>>>>>> for commuting and the like.
>>>>>>>> Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
>>>>>>>> essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
>>>>>>>> fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
>>>>>>>> have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
>>>>>>>> traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
>>>>>>>> are durable and puncture resistant.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
>>>>>>>>> all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
>>>>>>>> tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
>>>>>>>> tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I generally don't get them because they are HARD to find in 28's. Right
>>>>>>> now I have a pair on the shelf. I'm trying to decide whether to put them
>>>>>>> on the Tommasini or save them for my Road Shark named Picaso. I have a
>>>>>>> feeling that I am going to ride Picaso a while lot this year. The paint
>>>>>>> scheme alone will draw more attention than a Freeway wreck.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seem to be two versions of Pro4’s the service and endurance but the newer
>>>>>> range is Power, across road/Gravel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So possibly being discontinued?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>> No, just that tires are getting hard to find. It turns out that the 25 mm
>>>>> tires I have on the spare Campy wheels are Michelin Pro 4's. They felt
>>>>> faster on the flats and climbing but were slower descending because they
>>>>> didn't have the "give" of the 28's
>>>>>
>>>> The Pro range had been 3 before that and presumably 2 and 1 is being
>>>> superseded by Power which is old news really as Michelin announced the
>>>> power range some 10 years ago though seemed to have kept 2 Pro 4 models or
>>>> at least names with the endurance and service not sure why but they never
>>>> where on my radar though I have used the Power Gravel which wasn’t a
>>>> inspiring tire!
>>>
>>> The "Power" range is an entirely different tire with different characteristics.
>>>
>> No the Power range was supposed to replace the Pro range.
>>
>> https://road.cc/content/tech-news/184268-michelin-launches-new-power-competition-endurance-and-all-season-tyres
>>
>>
>> Though they seems not to have quite ended up like that! With the two Pro 4
>> models remaining and getting updates would seem, the top end though is the
>> Power cup competition.
>>
>>
>> https://www.michelin.co.uk/bicycle/tyres/michelin-power-cup-competition-line
>>
>> Some tires do remain in production for a long time see Continental
>> Gatorskins which must be last century?
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> Well then you're free to ride them aren't you? I have tried every
> Continental and Michelin and Vittoria on the market. After you've done
> that then come back and tell me what is good and what isn't.
>
Not likely to be much use really on the Gravel bike, it’s only that tires
tend as products be produced for years ie decades.

Roger Merriman

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 2:25:26 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 4:27:39 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 1:49:10 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:03:23 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:39:03 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
> >>>>>>>>> Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
> >>>>>>>>> since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
> >>>>>>>>> clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
> >>>>>>>>> a heavier bike will help.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
> >>>>>>>>> I want to wait till it comes in.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
> >>>>>>>>> went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
> >>>>>>>>> Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
> >>>>>>>>> for commuting and the like.
> >>>>>>>> Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
> >>>>>>>> essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
> >>>>>>>> fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
> >>>>>>>> have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
> >>>>>>>> traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
> >>>>>>>> are durable and puncture resistant.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
> >>>>>>>>> all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
> >>>>>>>> tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
> >>>>>>>> tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I generally don't get them because they are HARD to find in 28's. Right
> >>>>>>> now I have a pair on the shelf. I'm trying to decide whether to put them
> >>>>>>> on the Tommasini or save them for my Road Shark named Picaso. I have a
> >>>>>>> feeling that I am going to ride Picaso a while lot this year. The paint
> >>>>>>> scheme alone will draw more attention than a Freeway wreck.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Seem to be two versions of Pro4’s the service and endurance but the newer
> >>>>>> range is Power, across road/Gravel.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So possibly being discontinued?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Roger Merriman
> >>>>> No, just that tires are getting hard to find. It turns out that the 25 mm
> >>>>> tires I have on the spare Campy wheels are Michelin Pro 4's. They felt
> >>>>> faster on the flats and climbing but were slower descending because they
> >>>>> didn't have the "give" of the 28's
> >>>>>
> >>>> The Pro range had been 3 before that and presumably 2 and 1 is being
> >>>> superseded by Power which is old news really as Michelin announced the
> >>>> power range some 10 years ago though seemed to have kept 2 Pro 4 models or
> >>>> at least names with the endurance and service not sure why but they never
> >>>> where on my radar though I have used the Power Gravel which wasn’t a
> >>>> inspiring tire!
> >>>
> >>> The "Power" range is an entirely different tire with different characteristics.
> >>>
> >> No the Power range was supposed to replace the Pro range.
> >>
> >> https://road.cc/content/tech-news/184268-michelin-launches-new-power-competition-endurance-and-all-season-tyres
> >>
> >>
> >> Though they seems not to have quite ended up like that! With the two Pro 4
> >> models remaining and getting updates would seem, the top end though is the
> >> Power cup competition.
> >>
> >>
> >> https://www.michelin.co.uk/bicycle/tyres/michelin-power-cup-competition-line
> >>
> >> Some tires do remain in production for a long time see Continental
> >> Gatorskins which must be last century?
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >
> > Well then you're free to ride them aren't you? I have tried every
> > Continental and Michelin and Vittoria on the market. After you've done
> > that then come back and tell me what is good and what isn't.
> >
> Not likely to be much use really on the Gravel bike, it’s only that tires
> tend as products be produced for years ie decades.
>
> Roger Merriman

When Power range came out I jumped at them. But all of the various classes of them felt REALLY slow riding. I can only speak from personal experience and riding the Pro4 Monday reinforced that.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 2:25:26 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 4:27:39 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 1:49:10 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:03:23 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:39:03 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I went out to look at tires to replace my supply when I put them on the
>>>>>>>>>>> Tommasini and the Land Shark wheels which are presently 25 mm.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe I should wear out the 25 mm GP5000's first. I'll consider that
>>>>>>>>>>> since I will probably ride the Land Shark a lot since the weather will be
>>>>>>>>>>> clearing in a couple of weeks and I intend to do some climbing rides and
>>>>>>>>>>> a heavier bike will help.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I want to ride the Fondriest but I bought a carbon fiber fork for it and
>>>>>>>>>>> I want to wait till it comes in.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I went to ProBikeKit and their selection of tires is pure junk now. So I
>>>>>>>>>>> went to BikeTiresDirect and they have the tires, but they classify
>>>>>>>>>>> Gatorskins as "training tires". I always thought of those as sport tires
>>>>>>>>>>> for commuting and the like.
>>>>>>>>>> Training and commuting road tires are largely the same, 4 seasons are
>>>>>>>>>> essentially faster lighter and gripper than the Gatorskins which are
>>>>>>>>>> fairly slow and hilarious/terrifying lack of grip on wet roads!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Can get full commuter tyres on one of my bikes I ran 25mm Marathons which
>>>>>>>>>> have similar levels of lack of traction though at least some mechanical
>>>>>>>>>> traction if you ride on the occasional park paths ie mild gravel paths, and
>>>>>>>>>> are durable and puncture resistant.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My favorite tires is the Michelin Pro 4. These are tires that don't test
>>>>>>>>>>> all that low rolling resistance on the drum but they feel very fast to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why not just run those then? Don’t get me wrong I have tried various gravel
>>>>>>>>>> tires particularly with attempts to solve the punctures, but since going
>>>>>>>>>> tubeless have gone back to my old favourite as it works for me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I generally don't get them because they are HARD to find in 28's. Right
>>>>>>>>> now I have a pair on the shelf. I'm trying to decide whether to put them
>>>>>>>>> on the Tommasini or save them for my Road Shark named Picaso. I have a
>>>>>>>>> feeling that I am going to ride Picaso a while lot this year. The paint
>>>>>>>>> scheme alone will draw more attention than a Freeway wreck.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seem to be two versions of Pro4’s the service and endurance but the newer
>>>>>>>> range is Power, across road/Gravel.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So possibly being discontinued?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>> No, just that tires are getting hard to find. It turns out that the 25 mm
>>>>>>> tires I have on the spare Campy wheels are Michelin Pro 4's. They felt
>>>>>>> faster on the flats and climbing but were slower descending because they
>>>>>>> didn't have the "give" of the 28's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Pro range had been 3 before that and presumably 2 and 1 is being
>>>>>> superseded by Power which is old news really as Michelin announced the
>>>>>> power range some 10 years ago though seemed to have kept 2 Pro 4 models or
>>>>>> at least names with the endurance and service not sure why but they never
>>>>>> where on my radar though I have used the Power Gravel which wasn’t a
>>>>>> inspiring tire!
>>>>>
>>>>> The "Power" range is an entirely different tire with different characteristics.
>>>>>
>>>> No the Power range was supposed to replace the Pro range.
>>>>
>>>> https://road.cc/content/tech-news/184268-michelin-launches-new-power-competition-endurance-and-all-season-tyres
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Though they seems not to have quite ended up like that! With the two Pro 4
>>>> models remaining and getting updates would seem, the top end though is the
>>>> Power cup competition.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.michelin.co.uk/bicycle/tyres/michelin-power-cup-competition-line
>>>>
>>>> Some tires do remain in production for a long time see Continental
>>>> Gatorskins which must be last century?
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> Well then you're free to ride them aren't you? I have tried every
>>> Continental and Michelin and Vittoria on the market. After you've done
>>> that then come back and tell me what is good and what isn't.
>>>
>> Not likely to be much use really on the Gravel bike, it’s only that tires
>> tend as products be produced for years ie decades.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> When Power range came out I jumped at them. But all of the various
> classes of them felt REALLY slow riding. I can only speak from personal
> experience and riding the Pro4 Monday reinforced that.
>
I only used the Power Gravel which though very similar to my go to tire the
Schwabe G one Allround ie has cluster of mini knobs so the tire is decently
quick and grippy in most places.

But I didn’t take to it and retired it fairly early.

Roger Merriman