I have a Wilier GT with carbon frame and carbon seat post. The seat post is stuck but with huge force will turn. I cannot get it up only turn the post. I have to use a long handle shovel to put around the seat on the trainer then huge force I can turn the seat post. It simply never free's up. I got it up about 3-4 inches. Then being smart I took a hammer and hit it back down thinking that might help. Well now it is worse or about same but it is like it has too much friction. The paint on the seatpost is pealing as I turn. I just want the thing out without damaging the frame. I can get another seat and post.
Deacon Mark

On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 11:47:37 AM UTC-7, Mark Cleary wrote:
> I have a Wilier GT with carbon frame and carbon seat post. The seat post is stuck but with huge force will turn. I cannot get it up only turn the post. I have to use a long handle shovel to put around the seat on the trainer then huge force I can turn the seat post. It simply never free's up. I got it up about 3-4 inches. Then being smart I took a hammer and hit it back down thinking that might help. Well now it is worse or about same but it is like it has too much friction. The paint on the seatpost is pealing as I turn. I just want the thing out without damaging the frame. I can get another seat and post.
> Deacon Mark

The only thing I can suggest is Triflow and let it sit for about and hour and them twist it back and forth using the SEAT ONLY as a lever. It will likely slowly move up a little at a time. NEVER push the seat post in with anything but your hands. It sounds to me like the seat post is oversize for the hole and I seem to remember that Willier was known for poorly sized seat tubes.

Installation of the seat post should always be with heavy bicycle grease. This was not recommended if I remember correctly but this sticking problem was why Trek went to an external seat post. I used Campagnolo clear assembly grease on my CF bikes.

On 3/17/2023 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> I have a Wilier GT with carbon frame and carbon seat post. The seat post is stuck but with huge force will turn. I cannot get it up only turn the post. I have to use a long handle shovel to put around the seat on the trainer then huge force I can turn the seat post. It simply never free's up. I got it up about 3-4 inches. Then being smart I took a hammer and hit it back down thinking that might help. Well now it is worse or about same but it is like it has too much friction. The paint on the seatpost is pealing as I turn. I just want the thing out without damaging the frame. I can get another seat and post.
> Deacon Mark
>

Tough problem.

I have found in other applications that Rock-N-Roll Red
Absolute Dry has an uncanny ability to penetrate where
other things do not and it's compatible with carbon. I'd try
that while twisting your post on the possibility that it may
help.

https://www.rocklube.com/products.html

We approach these the other way around. Clamp the seatpost
top securely in a sturdy well mounted bench vise. You may
have to use or make vice jaws for a good fit. Make it
horizontal and take some care to hold only the top plate or
block, not the carbon shaft. Twist the frame (wheels out,
bars secured to top tube) while pulling. This is much
simpler with two people (a twister and a puller). A spare
hub mounted in the frame ends would let you twist from both
front and back. Don't torque on a single side of a rear end.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 12:13:53 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/17/2023 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > I have a Wilier GT with carbon frame and carbon seat post. The seat post is stuck but with huge force will turn. I cannot get it up only turn the post. I have to use a long handle shovel to put around the seat on the trainer then huge force I can turn the seat post. It simply never free's up. I got it up about 3-4 inches. Then being smart I took a hammer and hit it back down thinking that might help. Well now it is worse or about same but it is like it has too much friction. The paint on the seatpost is pealing as I turn. I just want the thing out without damaging the frame. I can get another seat and post.
> > Deacon Mark
> >
> Tough problem.
>
> I have found in other applications that Rock-N-Roll Red
> Absolute Dry has an uncanny ability to penetrate where
> other things do not and it's compatible with carbon. I'd try
> that while twisting your post on the possibility that it may
> help.
>
> https://www.rocklube.com/products.html
>
> We approach these the other way around. Clamp the seatpost
> top securely in a sturdy well mounted bench vise. You may
> have to use or make vice jaws for a good fit. Make it
> horizontal and take some care to hold only the top plate or
> block, not the carbon shaft. Twist the frame (wheels out,
> bars secured to top tube) while pulling. This is much
> simpler with two people (a twister and a puller). A spare
> hub mounted in the frame ends would let you twist from both
> front and back. Don't torque on a single side of a rear end.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My experience is that method works very well in aluminum frames with a stuck aluminum seat post and you recommended that method for me to remove stuck bottom bracket cups on my Time and it worked very well but the idea of trying to pull a seat post in that manner in any other manner than with EXTREME care sends shivers up my spine. I can just see twisting the frame a bit sideways and breaking the seat post off at the seat tube. I would trust you to use that method but I'm not sure about recommending to anyone else.

On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:20:06 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 12:13:53 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 3/17/2023 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > > I have a Wilier GT with carbon frame and carbon seat post. The seat post is stuck but with huge force will turn. I cannot get it up only turn the post. I have to use a long handle shovel to put around the seat on the trainer then huge force I can turn the seat post. It simply never free's up. I got it up about 3-4 inches. Then being smart I took a hammer and hit it back down thinking that might help. Well now it is worse or about same but it is like it has too much friction. The paint on the seatpost is pealing as I turn. I just want the thing out without damaging the frame. I can get another seat and post.
> > > Deacon Mark
> > >
> > Tough problem.
> >
> > I have found in other applications that Rock-N-Roll Red
> > Absolute Dry has an uncanny ability to penetrate where
> > other things do not and it's compatible with carbon. I'd try
> > that while twisting your post on the possibility that it may
> > help.
> >
> > https://www.rocklube.com/products.html
> >
> > We approach these the other way around. Clamp the seatpost
> > top securely in a sturdy well mounted bench vise. You may
> > have to use or make vice jaws for a good fit. Make it
> > horizontal and take some care to hold only the top plate or
> > block, not the carbon shaft. Twist the frame (wheels out,
> > bars secured to top tube) while pulling. This is much
> > simpler with two people (a twister and a puller). A spare
> > hub mounted in the frame ends would let you twist from both
> > front and back. Don't torque on a single side of a rear end.
> >
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> My experience is that method works very well in aluminum frames with a stuck aluminum seat post and you recommended that method for me to remove stuck bottom bracket cups on my Time and it worked very well but the idea of trying to pull a seat post in that manner in any other manner than with EXTREME care sends shivers up my spine. I can just see twisting the frame a bit sideways and breaking the seat post off at the seat tube. I would trust you to use that method but I'm not sure about recommending to anyone else.
I have done everything including the bench vice and it started moving the whole bench. Now I am just thinking save the bike. How or is there a way to cut the seat post out. I certainly can cut it off but then I still have the issue of the post in the frame. Any way to get that out without damaging the bike.
Deacon Mark

On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:13:53 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/17/2023 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > I have a Wilier GT with carbon frame and carbon seat post. The seat post is stuck but with huge force will turn. I cannot get it up only turn the post. I have to use a long handle shovel to put around the seat on the trainer then huge force I can turn the seat post. It simply never free's up. I got it up about 3-4 inches. Then being smart I took a hammer and hit it back down thinking that might help. Well now it is worse or about same but it is like it has too much friction. The paint on the seatpost is pealing as I turn. I just want the thing out without damaging the frame. I can get another seat and post.
> > Deacon Mark
> >
> Tough problem.
>
> I have found in other applications that Rock-N-Roll Red
> Absolute Dry has an uncanny ability to penetrate where
> other things do not and it's compatible with carbon. I'd try
> that while twisting your post on the possibility that it may
> help.
>
> https://www.rocklube.com/products.html
>
> We approach these the other way around. Clamp the seatpost
> top securely in a sturdy well mounted bench vise. You may
> have to use or make vice jaws for a good fit. Make it
> horizontal and take some care to hold only the top plate or
> block, not the carbon shaft. Twist the frame (wheels out,
> bars secured to top tube) while pulling. This is much
> simpler with two people (a twister and a puller). A spare
> hub mounted in the frame ends would let you twist from both
> front and back. Don't torque on a single side of a rear end.

+1....Old shop trick. I've done that a few times myself.

>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:42:10 PM UTC-7, Mark Cleary wrote:
> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:20:06 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 12:13:53 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 3/17/2023 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > > > I have a Wilier GT with carbon frame and carbon seat post. The seat post is stuck but with huge force will turn. I cannot get it up only turn the post. I have to use a long handle shovel to put around the seat on the trainer then huge force I can turn the seat post. It simply never free's up.. I got it up about 3-4 inches. Then being smart I took a hammer and hit it back down thinking that might help. Well now it is worse or about same but it is like it has too much friction. The paint on the seatpost is pealing as I turn. I just want the thing out without damaging the frame. I can get another seat and post.
> > > > Deacon Mark
> > > >
> > > Tough problem.
> > >
> > > I have found in other applications that Rock-N-Roll Red
> > > Absolute Dry has an uncanny ability to penetrate where
> > > other things do not and it's compatible with carbon. I'd try
> > > that while twisting your post on the possibility that it may
> > > help.
> > >
> > > https://www.rocklube.com/products.html
> > >
> > > We approach these the other way around. Clamp the seatpost
> > > top securely in a sturdy well mounted bench vise. You may
> > > have to use or make vice jaws for a good fit. Make it
> > > horizontal and take some care to hold only the top plate or
> > > block, not the carbon shaft. Twist the frame (wheels out,
> > > bars secured to top tube) while pulling. This is much
> > > simpler with two people (a twister and a puller). A spare
> > > hub mounted in the frame ends would let you twist from both
> > > front and back. Don't torque on a single side of a rear end.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andrew Muzi
> > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > My experience is that method works very well in aluminum frames with a stuck aluminum seat post and you recommended that method for me to remove stuck bottom bracket cups on my Time and it worked very well but the idea of trying to pull a seat post in that manner in any other manner than with EXTREME care sends shivers up my spine. I can just see twisting the frame a bit sideways and breaking the seat post off at the seat tube. I would trust you to use that method but I'm not sure about recommending to anyone else.
> I have done everything including the bench vice and it started moving the whole bench. Now I am just thinking save the bike. How or is there a way to cut the seat post out. I certainly can cut it off but then I still have the issue of the post in the frame. Any way to get that out without damaging the bike.
> Deacon Mark
There is NOT a way to safely cut the seat post out of a carbon fiber bike. A VERY good machinist MIGHT be willing to take it on but it would cost more than a new frameset. I have removed many seat posts from MY bikes but always knowing that it would be very easy to screw them up.

As I said. LOTS of Triflow or other good penetrating oil and sufficient time for it to penetrate but not to dry totally up and standing over the frame and working the saddle back and forth always succeeded but it was a real pain in the ass. Usually I could get a foot on the pedal to get a good stance. Rock n' Roll is a chain lube so maybe it penetrates as well but it is made to penetrate the rather large spaces in the chain rollers. But if it worked well for Andrew it probably would work well for you. But I would think that you are more likely to have Triflow around.

On 3/17/2023 3:42 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:20:06 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 12:13:53 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 3/17/2023 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>> I have a Wilier GT with carbon frame and carbon seat post. The seat post is stuck but with huge force will turn. I cannot get it up only turn the post. I have to use a long handle shovel to put around the seat on the trainer then huge force I can turn the seat post. It simply never free's up. I got it up about 3-4 inches. Then being smart I took a hammer and hit it back down thinking that might help. Well now it is worse or about same but it is like it has too much friction. The paint on the seatpost is pealing as I turn. I just want the thing out without damaging the frame. I can get another seat and post.
>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>
>>> Tough problem.
>>>
>>> I have found in other applications that Rock-N-Roll Red
>>> Absolute Dry has an uncanny ability to penetrate where
>>> other things do not and it's compatible with carbon. I'd try
>>> that while twisting your post on the possibility that it may
>>> help.
>>>
>>> https://www.rocklube.com/products.html
>>>
>>> We approach these the other way around. Clamp the seatpost
>>> top securely in a sturdy well mounted bench vise. You may
>>> have to use or make vice jaws for a good fit. Make it
>>> horizontal and take some care to hold only the top plate or
>>> block, not the carbon shaft. Twist the frame (wheels out,
>>> bars secured to top tube) while pulling. This is much
>>> simpler with two people (a twister and a puller). A spare
>>> hub mounted in the frame ends would let you twist from both
>>> front and back. Don't torque on a single side of a rear end.
>>>

>> My experience is that method works very well in aluminum frames with a stuck aluminum seat post and you recommended that method for me to remove stuck bottom bracket cups on my Time and it worked very well but the idea of trying to pull a seat post in that manner in any other manner than with EXTREME care sends shivers up my spine. I can just see twisting the frame a bit sideways and breaking the seat post off at the seat tube. I would trust you to use that method but I'm not sure about recommending to anyone else.

> I have done everything including the bench vice and it started moving the whole bench. Now I am just thinking save the bike. How or is there a way to cut the seat post out. I certainly can cut it off but then I still have the issue of the post in the frame. Any way to get that out without damaging the bike.
> Deacon Mark

You really do not want to break off that seatpost. Trust me
on that. Turns a big difficult job into a very big very
difficult very tedious very time-consuming job.

Given that you don't own a suitable vise, maybe have someone
help hold your frame and twist/lift the seat. Try some
non-petroleum penetrant such as Rock-N-Roll Red Absolute Dry
too.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/17/2023 4:00 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:42:10 PM UTC-7, Mark Cleary wrote:
>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:20:06 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 12:13:53 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 3/17/2023 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>> I have a Wilier GT with carbon frame and carbon seat post. The seat post is stuck but with huge force will turn. I cannot get it up only turn the post. I have to use a long handle shovel to put around the seat on the trainer then huge force I can turn the seat post. It simply never free's up. I got it up about 3-4 inches. Then being smart I took a hammer and hit it back down thinking that might help. Well now it is worse or about same but it is like it has too much friction. The paint on the seatpost is pealing as I turn. I just want the thing out without damaging the frame. I can get another seat and post.
>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>
>>>> Tough problem.
>>>>
>>>> I have found in other applications that Rock-N-Roll Red
>>>> Absolute Dry has an uncanny ability to penetrate where
>>>> other things do not and it's compatible with carbon. I'd try
>>>> that while twisting your post on the possibility that it may
>>>> help.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.rocklube.com/products.html
>>>>
>>>> We approach these the other way around. Clamp the seatpost
>>>> top securely in a sturdy well mounted bench vise. You may
>>>> have to use or make vice jaws for a good fit. Make it
>>>> horizontal and take some care to hold only the top plate or
>>>> block, not the carbon shaft. Twist the frame (wheels out,
>>>> bars secured to top tube) while pulling. This is much
>>>> simpler with two people (a twister and a puller). A spare
>>>> hub mounted in the frame ends would let you twist from both
>>>> front and back. Don't torque on a single side of a rear end.
>>>>

>>> My experience is that method works very well in aluminum frames with a stuck aluminum seat post and you recommended that method for me to remove stuck bottom bracket cups on my Time and it worked very well but the idea of trying to pull a seat post in that manner in any other manner than with EXTREME care sends shivers up my spine. I can just see twisting the frame a bit sideways and breaking the seat post off at the seat tube. I would trust you to use that method but I'm not sure about recommending to anyone else.
>> I have done everything including the bench vice and it started moving the whole bench. Now I am just thinking save the bike. How or is there a way to cut the seat post out. I certainly can cut it off but then I still have the issue of the post in the frame. Any way to get that out without damaging the bike.
>> Deacon Mark
> There is NOT a way to safely cut the seat post out of a carbon fiber bike. A VERY good machinist MIGHT be willing to take it on but it would cost more than a new frameset. I have removed many seat posts from MY bikes but always knowing that it would be very easy to screw them up.
>
> As I said. LOTS of Triflow or other good penetrating oil and sufficient time for it to penetrate but not to dry totally up and standing over the frame and working the saddle back and forth always succeeded but it was a real pain in the ass. Usually I could get a foot on the pedal to get a good stance. Rock n' Roll is a chain lube so maybe it penetrates as well but it is made to penetrate the rather large spaces in the chain rollers. But if it worked well for Andrew it probably would work well for you. But I would think that you are more likely to have Triflow around.
>

I'm not an expert but my understanding is that volatile
petroleum products should not be used on carbon frames.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 2:49:24 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/17/2023 4:00 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:42:10 PM UTC-7, Mark Cleary wrote:
> >> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:20:06 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 12:13:53 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 3/17/2023 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> >>>>> I have a Wilier GT with carbon frame and carbon seat post. The seat post is stuck but with huge force will turn. I cannot get it up only turn the post. I have to use a long handle shovel to put around the seat on the trainer then huge force I can turn the seat post. It simply never free's up.. I got it up about 3-4 inches. Then being smart I took a hammer and hit it back down thinking that might help. Well now it is worse or about same but it is like it has too much friction. The paint on the seatpost is pealing as I turn. I just want the thing out without damaging the frame. I can get another seat and post.
> >>>>> Deacon Mark
> >>>>>
> >>>> Tough problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have found in other applications that Rock-N-Roll Red
> >>>> Absolute Dry has an uncanny ability to penetrate where
> >>>> other things do not and it's compatible with carbon. I'd try
> >>>> that while twisting your post on the possibility that it may
> >>>> help.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.rocklube.com/products.html
> >>>>
> >>>> We approach these the other way around. Clamp the seatpost
> >>>> top securely in a sturdy well mounted bench vise. You may
> >>>> have to use or make vice jaws for a good fit. Make it
> >>>> horizontal and take some care to hold only the top plate or
> >>>> block, not the carbon shaft. Twist the frame (wheels out,
> >>>> bars secured to top tube) while pulling. This is much
> >>>> simpler with two people (a twister and a puller). A spare
> >>>> hub mounted in the frame ends would let you twist from both
> >>>> front and back. Don't torque on a single side of a rear end.
> >>>>
> >>> My experience is that method works very well in aluminum frames with a stuck aluminum seat post and you recommended that method for me to remove stuck bottom bracket cups on my Time and it worked very well but the idea of trying to pull a seat post in that manner in any other manner than with EXTREME care sends shivers up my spine. I can just see twisting the frame a bit sideways and breaking the seat post off at the seat tube. I would trust you to use that method but I'm not sure about recommending to anyone else..
> >> I have done everything including the bench vice and it started moving the whole bench. Now I am just thinking save the bike. How or is there a way to cut the seat post out. I certainly can cut it off but then I still have the issue of the post in the frame. Any way to get that out without damaging the bike.
> >> Deacon Mark
> > There is NOT a way to safely cut the seat post out of a carbon fiber bike. A VERY good machinist MIGHT be willing to take it on but it would cost more than a new frameset. I have removed many seat posts from MY bikes but always knowing that it would be very easy to screw them up.
> >
> > As I said. LOTS of Triflow or other good penetrating oil and sufficient time for it to penetrate but not to dry totally up and standing over the frame and working the saddle back and forth always succeeded but it was a real pain in the ass. Usually I could get a foot on the pedal to get a good stance. Rock n' Roll is a chain lube so maybe it penetrates as well but it is made to penetrate the rather large spaces in the chain rollers. But if it worked well for Andrew it probably would work well for you. But I would think that you are more likely to have Triflow around.
> >
> I'm not an expert but my understanding is that volatile
> petroleum products should not be used on carbon frames.

I remember Lennard Zinn as saying that petroleum lubricants did not damage carbon fiber since they are a neutral fiber held in a polyester composite which is not damaged by oil. I've always taken that to heart and never had a problem.

On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 5:48:47 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 2:49:24 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 3/17/2023 4:00 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:42:10 PM UTC-7, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > >> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:20:06 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 12:13:53 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>> On 3/17/2023 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > >>>>> I have a Wilier GT with carbon frame and carbon seat post. The seat post is stuck but with huge force will turn. I cannot get it up only turn the post. I have to use a long handle shovel to put around the seat on the trainer then huge force I can turn the seat post. It simply never free's up. I got it up about 3-4 inches. Then being smart I took a hammer and hit it back down thinking that might help. Well now it is worse or about same but it is like it has too much friction. The paint on the seatpost is pealing as I turn. I just want the thing out without damaging the frame. I can get another seat and post.
> > >>>>> Deacon Mark
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> Tough problem.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I have found in other applications that Rock-N-Roll Red
> > >>>> Absolute Dry has an uncanny ability to penetrate where
> > >>>> other things do not and it's compatible with carbon. I'd try
> > >>>> that while twisting your post on the possibility that it may
> > >>>> help.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> https://www.rocklube.com/products.html
> > >>>>
> > >>>> We approach these the other way around. Clamp the seatpost
> > >>>> top securely in a sturdy well mounted bench vise. You may
> > >>>> have to use or make vice jaws for a good fit. Make it
> > >>>> horizontal and take some care to hold only the top plate or
> > >>>> block, not the carbon shaft. Twist the frame (wheels out,
> > >>>> bars secured to top tube) while pulling. This is much
> > >>>> simpler with two people (a twister and a puller). A spare
> > >>>> hub mounted in the frame ends would let you twist from both
> > >>>> front and back. Don't torque on a single side of a rear end.
> > >>>>
> > >>> My experience is that method works very well in aluminum frames with a stuck aluminum seat post and you recommended that method for me to remove stuck bottom bracket cups on my Time and it worked very well but the idea of trying to pull a seat post in that manner in any other manner than with EXTREME care sends shivers up my spine. I can just see twisting the frame a bit sideways and breaking the seat post off at the seat tube. I would trust you to use that method but I'm not sure about recommending to anyone else.
> > >> I have done everything including the bench vice and it started moving the whole bench. Now I am just thinking save the bike. How or is there a way to cut the seat post out. I certainly can cut it off but then I still have the issue of the post in the frame. Any way to get that out without damaging the bike.
> > >> Deacon Mark
> > > There is NOT a way to safely cut the seat post out of a carbon fiber bike. A VERY good machinist MIGHT be willing to take it on but it would cost more than a new frameset. I have removed many seat posts from MY bikes but always knowing that it would be very easy to screw them up.
> > >
> > > As I said. LOTS of Triflow or other good penetrating oil and sufficient time for it to penetrate but not to dry totally up and standing over the frame and working the saddle back and forth always succeeded but it was a real pain in the ass. Usually I could get a foot on the pedal to get a good stance. Rock n' Roll is a chain lube so maybe it penetrates as well but it is made to penetrate the rather large spaces in the chain rollers. But if it worked well for Andrew it probably would work well for you. But I would think that you are more likely to have Triflow around.
> > >
> > I'm not an expert but my understanding is that volatile
> > petroleum products should not be used on carbon frames.
> I remember Lennard Zinn as saying that petroleum lubricants did not damage carbon fiber since they are a neutral fiber held in a polyester composite which is not damaged by oil. I've always taken that to heart and never had a problem.

At this point I cut the post and tried all sorts of things. Now the seattube is a bit wonky and I basically think the frame is shot. No way at this point to get the seat post out. I tried cutting down and then seeing if breaking down the sides of it would cause it to collapse. No such luck is is the frame good and tight.
Deacon Mark

On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 8:33:11 PM UTC-4, Mark Cleary wrote:
>
> At this point I cut the post and tried all sorts of things. Now the seattube is a bit wonky and I basically think the frame is shot. No way at this point to get the seat post out. I tried cutting down and then seeing if breaking down the sides of it would cause it to collapse. No such luck is is the frame good and tight.

If you've cut the seatpost and you're looking at a hollow tube, I wonder if you could use reams in
increasing sizes (or I suppose drills) to increase the inside diameter of the seatpost stub until
the wall thickness is small enough to collapse inward. Admittedly, I don't have experience cutting
carbon fiber by any means.

But if the frame tubes are now looking damaged, I guess it's too late for that. I'd be very reluctant
to ride a visibly damaged carbon frame.

- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 9:43:23 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 8:33:11 PM UTC-4, Mark Cleary wrote:
> >
> > At this point I cut the post and tried all sorts of things. Now the seattube is a bit wonky and I basically think the frame is shot. No way at this point to get the seat post out. I tried cutting down and then seeing if breaking down the sides of it would cause it to collapse. No such luck is is the frame good and tight.
> If you've cut the seatpost and you're looking at a hollow tube, I wonder if you could use reams in
> increasing sizes (or I suppose drills) to increase the inside diameter of the seatpost stub until
> the wall thickness is small enough to collapse inward. Admittedly, I don't have experience cutting
> carbon fiber by any means.
>
> But if the frame tubes are now looking damaged, I guess it's too late for that. I'd be very reluctant
> to ride a visibly damaged carbon frame.
>
> - Frank Krygowski

My understanding is that carbon fiber dust is EXTREMELY TOXIC/DANGEROUS and should not be inhaled in any amounts. IIRC, a special filter mask is used by those even cutting cutting carbon fiber let alone reaming it or sanding it.

Too bad that the seatpost was cut. Andrew Muzi did state the the result of cutting a carbon fiber seatpost whllst some of the seatpost was still in the frame would not be a wise thing to do.

Cheers

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 1:16:01 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 9:43:23 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 8:33:11 PM UTC-4, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > >
> > > At this point I cut the post and tried all sorts of things. Now the seattube is a bit wonky and I basically think the frame is shot. No way at this point to get the seat post out. I tried cutting down and then seeing if breaking down the sides of it would cause it to collapse. No such luck is is the frame good and tight.
> > If you've cut the seatpost and you're looking at a hollow tube, I wonder if you could use reams in
> > increasing sizes (or I suppose drills) to increase the inside diameter of the seatpost stub until
> > the wall thickness is small enough to collapse inward. Admittedly, I don't have experience cutting
> > carbon fiber by any means.
> >
> > But if the frame tubes are now looking damaged, I guess it's too late for that. I'd be very reluctant
> > to ride a visibly damaged carbon frame.
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
> My understanding is that carbon fiber dust is EXTREMELY TOXIC/DANGEROUS and should not be inhaled in any amounts. IIRC, a special filter mask is used by those even cutting cutting carbon fiber let alone reaming it or sanding it.
>
> Too bad that the seatpost was cut. Andrew Muzi did state the the result of cutting a carbon fiber seatpost whllst some of the seatpost was still in the frame would not be a wise thing to do.
>
> Cheers
For crying out loud. Any fine powder can be toxic. You BODY is made up 83% of carbon and carbon compounds, what would make you think that carbon fiber is any more dangerous that blocking alveoli and the like?

Am 18.03.2023 um 15:32 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 1:16:01 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot
> wrote:
>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 9:43:23 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski
>> wrote:
>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 8:33:11 PM UTC-4, Mark Cleary
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> At this point I cut the post and tried all sorts of things. Now
>>>> the seattube is a bit wonky and I basically think the frame is
>>>> shot. No way at this point to get the seat post out. I tried
>>>> cutting down and then seeing if breaking down the sides of it
>>>> would cause it to collapse. No such luck is is the frame good
>>>> and tight.
>>> If you've cut the seatpost and you're looking at a hollow tube, I
>>> wonder if you could use reams in increasing sizes (or I suppose
>>> drills) to increase the inside diameter of the seatpost stub
>>> until the wall thickness is small enough to collapse inward.
>>> Admittedly, I don't have experience cutting carbon fiber by any
>>> means.
>>>
>>> But if the frame tubes are now looking damaged, I guess it's too
>>> late for that. I'd be very reluctant to ride a visibly damaged
>>> carbon frame.
>>>
>> My understanding is that carbon fiber dust is EXTREMELY
>> TOXIC/DANGEROUS and should not be inhaled in any amounts. IIRC, a
>> special filter mask is used by those even cutting cutting carbon
>> fiber let alone reaming it or sanding it.
>>
>> Too bad that the seatpost was cut. Andrew Muzi did state the the
>> result of cutting a carbon fiber seatpost whllst some of the
>> seatpost was still in the frame would not be a wise thing to do.
>>
> For crying out loud. Any fine powder can be toxic. You BODY is made
> up 83% of carbon and carbon compounds, what would make you think that
> carbon fiber is any more dangerous that blocking alveoli and the
> like?

My day, being more than 80 years old, doesn't mind handling asbestos
plates. At his age, the fine powder in the lungs won't harm him.
I aim to live another 40+ years so I prefer not to get that kind of
stuff into my lungs.

Rolf

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 4:16:01 AM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 9:43:23 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 8:33:11 PM UTC-4, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > >
> > > At this point I cut the post and tried all sorts of things. Now the seattube is a bit wonky and I basically think the frame is shot. No way at this point to get the seat post out. I tried cutting down and then seeing if breaking down the sides of it would cause it to collapse. No such luck is is the frame good and tight.
> > If you've cut the seatpost and you're looking at a hollow tube, I wonder if you could use reams in
> > increasing sizes (or I suppose drills) to increase the inside diameter of the seatpost stub until
> > the wall thickness is small enough to collapse inward. Admittedly, I don't have experience cutting
> > carbon fiber by any means.
> >
> > But if the frame tubes are now looking damaged, I guess it's too late for that. I'd be very reluctant
> > to ride a visibly damaged carbon frame.
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
> My understanding is that carbon fiber dust is EXTREMELY TOXIC/DANGEROUS and should not be inhaled in any amounts. IIRC, a special filter mask is used by those even cutting cutting carbon fiber let alone reaming it or sanding it.

There's no conclusive research on that. Most studies don't show any chemical toxicity, associated with carbon fibers specifically (or Carbon NanoTubes (CNT)) except that repeated exposure without giving the body time to recover can 'clog' alveoli. Also there is dispute over whether it's the actual carbon particulates or the epoxy that's the issue. AFAIU this is similar to inhaling silica dust - Every once in a while won't kill you since your body can clear the particulates, but repeated and extended exposure can result in permanent damage. Cutting a carbon seat post of steerer tube in your basement every now and then probably isn't an issue.

>
> Too bad that the seatpost was cut. Andrew Muzi did state the the result of cutting a carbon fiber seatpost whllst some of the seatpost was still in the frame would not be a wise thing to do.
>
> Cheers

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 4:29:48 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 18.03.2023 um 15:32 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 1:16:01 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot
> > wrote:
> >> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 9:43:23 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski
> >> wrote:
> >>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 8:33:11 PM UTC-4, Mark Cleary
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> At this point I cut the post and tried all sorts of things. Now
> >>>> the seattube is a bit wonky and I basically think the frame is
> >>>> shot. No way at this point to get the seat post out. I tried
> >>>> cutting down and then seeing if breaking down the sides of it
> >>>> would cause it to collapse. No such luck is is the frame good
> >>>> and tight.
> >>> If you've cut the seatpost and you're looking at a hollow tube, I
> >>> wonder if you could use reams in increasing sizes (or I suppose
> >>> drills) to increase the inside diameter of the seatpost stub
> >>> until the wall thickness is small enough to collapse inward.
> >>> Admittedly, I don't have experience cutting carbon fiber by any
> >>> means.
> >>>
> >>> But if the frame tubes are now looking damaged, I guess it's too
> >>> late for that. I'd be very reluctant to ride a visibly damaged
> >>> carbon frame.
> >>>
> >> My understanding is that carbon fiber dust is EXTREMELY
> >> TOXIC/DANGEROUS and should not be inhaled in any amounts. IIRC, a
> >> special filter mask is used by those even cutting cutting carbon
> >> fiber let alone reaming it or sanding it.
> >>
> >> Too bad that the seatpost was cut. Andrew Muzi did state the the
> >> result of cutting a carbon fiber seatpost whllst some of the
> >> seatpost was still in the frame would not be a wise thing to do.
> >>
> > For crying out loud. Any fine powder can be toxic. You BODY is made
> > up 83% of carbon and carbon compounds, what would make you think that
> > carbon fiber is any more dangerous that blocking alveoli and the
> > like?
> My day, being more than 80 years old, doesn't mind handling asbestos
> plates. At his age, the fine powder in the lungs won't harm him.
> I aim to live another 40+ years so I prefer not to get that kind of
> stuff into my lungs.

When did carbon and asbestos become synonyms? Are there dangers of fine carbon particles? Sure but not from cutting a seat post. Carbon in some quantities is turned into a organic substance in your body and absorbed. Run over by a dump truck load probably not.

Am 20.03.2023 um 14:42 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 4:29:48 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>> Am 18.03.2023 um 15:32 schrieb Tom Kunich:
>>> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 1:16:01 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 9:43:23 p.m. UTC-4, Frank
>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 8:33:11 PM UTC-4, Mark Cleary
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At this point I cut the post and tried all sorts of things.
>>>>>> Now the seattube is a bit wonky and I basically think the
>>>>>> frame is shot. No way at this point to get the seat post
>>>>>> out. I tried cutting down and then seeing if breaking down
>>>>>> the sides of it would cause it to collapse. No such luck is
>>>>>> is the frame good and tight.
>>>>> If you've cut the seatpost and you're looking at a hollow
>>>>> tube, I wonder if you could use reams in increasing sizes (or
>>>>> I suppose drills) to increase the inside diameter of the
>>>>> seatpost stub until the wall thickness is small enough to
>>>>> collapse inward. Admittedly, I don't have experience cutting
>>>>> carbon fiber by any means.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if the frame tubes are now looking damaged, I guess it's
>>>>> too late for that. I'd be very reluctant to ride a visibly
>>>>> damaged carbon frame.
>>>>>
>>>> My understanding is that carbon fiber dust is EXTREMELY
>>>> TOXIC/DANGEROUS and should not be inhaled in any amounts. IIRC,
>>>> a special filter mask is used by those even cutting cutting
>>>> carbon fiber let alone reaming it or sanding it.
>>>>
>>>> Too bad that the seatpost was cut. Andrew Muzi did state the
>>>> the result of cutting a carbon fiber seatpost whllst some of
>>>> the seatpost was still in the frame would not be a wise thing
>>>> to do.
>>>>
>>> For crying out loud. Any fine powder can be toxic. You BODY is
>>> made up 83% of carbon and carbon compounds, what would make you
>>> think that carbon fiber is any more dangerous that blocking
>>> alveoli and the like?
>> My day, being more than 80 years old, doesn't mind handling
>> asbestos plates. At his age, the fine powder in the lungs won't
>> harm him. I aim to live another 40+ years so I prefer not to get
>> that kind of stuff into my lungs.
>
> When did carbon and asbestos become synonyms? Are there dangers of
> fine carbon particles?

This was *your* claim above: Any fine powder can be toxic.
The only way asbestos is toxic is that it emits powder of a certain zsie
and shape when machined.

According to Wikipedia, carbon dust is about triple the size of asbestos
dust and therefore not *known* carcinogenic due to its size.
Nevertheless, there are strong work protection measures to be taken to
be on the safe side.

Rolf

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 7:06:56 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 20.03.2023 um 14:42 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 4:29:48 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >> Am 18.03.2023 um 15:32 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> >>> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 1:16:01 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 9:43:23 p.m. UTC-4, Frank
> >>>> Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 8:33:11 PM UTC-4, Mark Cleary
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> At this point I cut the post and tried all sorts of things.
> >>>>>> Now the seattube is a bit wonky and I basically think the
> >>>>>> frame is shot. No way at this point to get the seat post
> >>>>>> out. I tried cutting down and then seeing if breaking down
> >>>>>> the sides of it would cause it to collapse. No such luck is
> >>>>>> is the frame good and tight.
> >>>>> If you've cut the seatpost and you're looking at a hollow
> >>>>> tube, I wonder if you could use reams in increasing sizes (or
> >>>>> I suppose drills) to increase the inside diameter of the
> >>>>> seatpost stub until the wall thickness is small enough to
> >>>>> collapse inward. Admittedly, I don't have experience cutting
> >>>>> carbon fiber by any means.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But if the frame tubes are now looking damaged, I guess it's
> >>>>> too late for that. I'd be very reluctant to ride a visibly
> >>>>> damaged carbon frame.
> >>>>>
> >>>> My understanding is that carbon fiber dust is EXTREMELY
> >>>> TOXIC/DANGEROUS and should not be inhaled in any amounts. IIRC,
> >>>> a special filter mask is used by those even cutting cutting
> >>>> carbon fiber let alone reaming it or sanding it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Too bad that the seatpost was cut. Andrew Muzi did state the
> >>>> the result of cutting a carbon fiber seatpost whllst some of
> >>>> the seatpost was still in the frame would not be a wise thing
> >>>> to do.
> >>>>
> >>> For crying out loud. Any fine powder can be toxic. You BODY is
> >>> made up 83% of carbon and carbon compounds, what would make you
> >>> think that carbon fiber is any more dangerous that blocking
> >>> alveoli and the like?
> >> My day, being more than 80 years old, doesn't mind handling
> >> asbestos plates. At his age, the fine powder in the lungs won't
> >> harm him. I aim to live another 40+ years so I prefer not to get
> >> that kind of stuff into my lungs.
> >
> > When did carbon and asbestos become synonyms? Are there dangers of
> > fine carbon particles?
> This was *your* claim above: Any fine powder can be toxic.
> The only way asbestos is toxic is that it emits powder of a certain zsie
> and shape when machined.
>
> According to Wikipedia, carbon dust is about triple the size of asbestos
> dust and therefore not *known* carcinogenic due to its size.
> Nevertheless, there are strong work protection measures to be taken to
> be on the safe side.

I don't follow you Rolf. Any fine powder in sufficient quantity could block off alveoli but I said that carbon powder was NOT toxic after Ridesalot made the mistaken comment that it was extremely toxic. I think that you're getting lost in the track of these long conversations with topic drift which is easy enough to do.

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 7:06:56 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 20.03.2023 um 14:42 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 4:29:48 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >> Am 18.03.2023 um 15:32 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> >>> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 1:16:01 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 9:43:23 p.m. UTC-4, Frank
> >>>> Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 8:33:11 PM UTC-4, Mark Cleary
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> At this point I cut the post and tried all sorts of things.
> >>>>>> Now the seattube is a bit wonky and I basically think the
> >>>>>> frame is shot. No way at this point to get the seat post
> >>>>>> out. I tried cutting down and then seeing if breaking down
> >>>>>> the sides of it would cause it to collapse. No such luck is
> >>>>>> is the frame good and tight.
> >>>>> If you've cut the seatpost and you're looking at a hollow
> >>>>> tube, I wonder if you could use reams in increasing sizes (or
> >>>>> I suppose drills) to increase the inside diameter of the
> >>>>> seatpost stub until the wall thickness is small enough to
> >>>>> collapse inward. Admittedly, I don't have experience cutting
> >>>>> carbon fiber by any means.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But if the frame tubes are now looking damaged, I guess it's
> >>>>> too late for that. I'd be very reluctant to ride a visibly
> >>>>> damaged carbon frame.
> >>>>>
> >>>> My understanding is that carbon fiber dust is EXTREMELY
> >>>> TOXIC/DANGEROUS and should not be inhaled in any amounts. IIRC,
> >>>> a special filter mask is used by those even cutting cutting
> >>>> carbon fiber let alone reaming it or sanding it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Too bad that the seatpost was cut. Andrew Muzi did state the
> >>>> the result of cutting a carbon fiber seatpost whllst some of
> >>>> the seatpost was still in the frame would not be a wise thing
> >>>> to do.
> >>>>
> >>> For crying out loud. Any fine powder can be toxic. You BODY is
> >>> made up 83% of carbon and carbon compounds, what would make you
> >>> think that carbon fiber is any more dangerous that blocking
> >>> alveoli and the like?
> >> My day, being more than 80 years old, doesn't mind handling
> >> asbestos plates. At his age, the fine powder in the lungs won't
> >> harm him. I aim to live another 40+ years so I prefer not to get
> >> that kind of stuff into my lungs.
> >
> > When did carbon and asbestos become synonyms? Are there dangers of
> > fine carbon particles?
> This was *your* claim above: Any fine powder can be toxic.
> The only way asbestos is toxic is that it emits powder of a certain zsie
> and shape when machined.
>
> According to Wikipedia, carbon dust is about triple the size of asbestos
> dust and therefore not *known* carcinogenic due to its size.
> Nevertheless, there are strong work protection measures to be taken to
> be on the safe side.

Asbestos is not a fine powder but fibrous threads of a stable material or even crystals in some forms. Asbestos is not A material but a class of materials that can be many different materials some of which may harm you and others that may not. Asbestos is present in low quantities in normal dust. So you are normally exposed to it at times.
Unless you are heavily exposed to it and especially if you're a smoker it is nothing to worry about. And carbon fiber particles from sawing a seat post or steering column is not to be considered dangerous.

On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 04:56:46 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>There's no conclusive research on that.

"Is carbon fiber dust, particularly CNT (Easton ‘Nanotube’) hazardous
if inhaled?"
<https://www.velonews.com/gear/technical-faq-with-lennard-zinn-is-carbon-fiber-dust-safe-premature-bearing-wear/>
Lennard Zinn provides answers from 3 experts.

In my never humble opinion, carbon fiber dust is indistinguishable
from coal dust. Safety precautions for coal dust has been part of
coal mining for several centuries. Following coal safety guidance
should be more than sufficient.
<https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/MineWorkers.htmlf>

There's also a question of quantity and exposure time. The human body
is quite good at disposing or isolating many foreign substances, but
can be overwhelmed if the concentration is high and/or the exposure is
for long periods. If you're working with carbon fiber and generating
clouds of dust, then do it outside, wear a mask, get a HEPA air
filter, and try to follow the industry guidelines.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/jeffl-dust-mask.jpg>
However, if the work involves minimal exposure, a dust mask might be
sufficient.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 10:36:43 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

A bit more:

"Could Carbon Fibre Really Be The New Asbestos? We Looked At The
Facts"
<https://www.dtc-uk.com/dust-extraction/could-carbon-fibre-really-be-the-new-asbestos-we-looked-at-the-facts/?cn-reloaded=1>
Bottom line is we don't know yet if CF is dangerous.

Neither asbestos or various forms of carbon fiber are toxic in that
they are not a poison which causes chemical changes in the body[1].
However, they are all irritants, with which the body reacts in various
ways while trying to get rid of the irritant. Those can be anything
from mucous to wash away the irritant to cancer.

[1] I used to take activated charcoal pills for acid reflux. They
worked quite well for the intended purpose.
<https://www.countrylifevitamins.com/product/activated-charcoal/variation-40-capsules/>
However, I didn't try to inhale the charcoal.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 9:06:56 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 20.03.2023 um 14:42 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 4:29:48 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >> Am 18.03.2023 um 15:32 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> >>> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 1:16:01 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 9:43:23 p.m. UTC-4, Frank
> >>>> Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 8:33:11 PM UTC-4, Mark Cleary
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> At this point I cut the post and tried all sorts of things.
> >>>>>> Now the seattube is a bit wonky and I basically think the
> >>>>>> frame is shot. No way at this point to get the seat post
> >>>>>> out. I tried cutting down and then seeing if breaking down
> >>>>>> the sides of it would cause it to collapse. No such luck is
> >>>>>> is the frame good and tight.
> >>>>> If you've cut the seatpost and you're looking at a hollow
> >>>>> tube, I wonder if you could use reams in increasing sizes (or
> >>>>> I suppose drills) to increase the inside diameter of the
> >>>>> seatpost stub until the wall thickness is small enough to
> >>>>> collapse inward. Admittedly, I don't have experience cutting
> >>>>> carbon fiber by any means.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But if the frame tubes are now looking damaged, I guess it's
> >>>>> too late for that. I'd be very reluctant to ride a visibly
> >>>>> damaged carbon frame.
> >>>>>
> >>>> My understanding is that carbon fiber dust is EXTREMELY
> >>>> TOXIC/DANGEROUS and should not be inhaled in any amounts. IIRC,
> >>>> a special filter mask is used by those even cutting cutting
> >>>> carbon fiber let alone reaming it or sanding it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Too bad that the seatpost was cut. Andrew Muzi did state the
> >>>> the result of cutting a carbon fiber seatpost whllst some of
> >>>> the seatpost was still in the frame would not be a wise thing
> >>>> to do.
> >>>>
> >>> For crying out loud. Any fine powder can be toxic. You BODY is
> >>> made up 83% of carbon and carbon compounds, what would make you
> >>> think that carbon fiber is any more dangerous that blocking
> >>> alveoli and the like?
> >> My day, being more than 80 years old, doesn't mind handling
> >> asbestos plates. At his age, the fine powder in the lungs won't
> >> harm him. I aim to live another 40+ years so I prefer not to get
> >> that kind of stuff into my lungs.
> >
> > When did carbon and asbestos become synonyms? Are there dangers of
> > fine carbon particles?
> This was *your* claim above: Any fine powder can be toxic.
> The only way asbestos is toxic is that it emits powder of a certain zsie
> and shape when machined.
>
> According to Wikipedia, carbon dust is about triple the size of asbestos
> dust and therefore not *known* carcinogenic due to its size.
> Nevertheless, there are strong work protection measures to be taken to
> be on the safe side.
>
> Rolf

Coal miners are famous for black lung disease. Funnily enough, the victims all were smoking coal miners.

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 5:13:42 PM UTC-4, Mike A Schwab wrote:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 9:06:56 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > Am 20.03.2023 um 14:42 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> > > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 4:29:48 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > >> Am 18.03.2023 um 15:32 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> > >>> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 1:16:01 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 9:43:23 p.m. UTC-4, Frank
> > >>>> Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 8:33:11 PM UTC-4, Mark Cleary
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> At this point I cut the post and tried all sorts of things.
> > >>>>>> Now the seattube is a bit wonky and I basically think the
> > >>>>>> frame is shot. No way at this point to get the seat post
> > >>>>>> out. I tried cutting down and then seeing if breaking down
> > >>>>>> the sides of it would cause it to collapse. No such luck is
> > >>>>>> is the frame good and tight.
> > >>>>> If you've cut the seatpost and you're looking at a hollow
> > >>>>> tube, I wonder if you could use reams in increasing sizes (or
> > >>>>> I suppose drills) to increase the inside diameter of the
> > >>>>> seatpost stub until the wall thickness is small enough to
> > >>>>> collapse inward. Admittedly, I don't have experience cutting
> > >>>>> carbon fiber by any means.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> But if the frame tubes are now looking damaged, I guess it's
> > >>>>> too late for that. I'd be very reluctant to ride a visibly
> > >>>>> damaged carbon frame.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> My understanding is that carbon fiber dust is EXTREMELY
> > >>>> TOXIC/DANGEROUS and should not be inhaled in any amounts. IIRC,
> > >>>> a special filter mask is used by those even cutting cutting
> > >>>> carbon fiber let alone reaming it or sanding it.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Too bad that the seatpost was cut. Andrew Muzi did state the
> > >>>> the result of cutting a carbon fiber seatpost whllst some of
> > >>>> the seatpost was still in the frame would not be a wise thing
> > >>>> to do.
> > >>>>
> > >>> For crying out loud. Any fine powder can be toxic. You BODY is
> > >>> made up 83% of carbon and carbon compounds, what would make you
> > >>> think that carbon fiber is any more dangerous that blocking
> > >>> alveoli and the like?
> > >> My day, being more than 80 years old, doesn't mind handling
> > >> asbestos plates. At his age, the fine powder in the lungs won't
> > >> harm him. I aim to live another 40+ years so I prefer not to get
> > >> that kind of stuff into my lungs.
> > >
> > > When did carbon and asbestos become synonyms? Are there dangers of
> > > fine carbon particles?
> > This was *your* claim above: Any fine powder can be toxic.
> > The only way asbestos is toxic is that it emits powder of a certain zsie
> > and shape when machined.
> >
> > According to Wikipedia, carbon dust is about triple the size of asbestos
> > dust and therefore not *known* carcinogenic due to its size.
> > Nevertheless, there are strong work protection measures to be taken to
> > be on the safe side.
> >
> > Rolf
> Coal miners are famous for black lung disease. Funnily enough, the victims all were smoking coal miners.

That's interesting.....do you have a source for that?

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 2:13:42 PM UTC-7, Mike A Schwab wrote:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 9:06:56 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > Am 20.03.2023 um 14:42 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> > > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 4:29:48 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > >> Am 18.03.2023 um 15:32 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> > >>> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 1:16:01 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 9:43:23 p.m. UTC-4, Frank
> > >>>> Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 8:33:11 PM UTC-4, Mark Cleary
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> At this point I cut the post and tried all sorts of things.
> > >>>>>> Now the seattube is a bit wonky and I basically think the
> > >>>>>> frame is shot. No way at this point to get the seat post
> > >>>>>> out. I tried cutting down and then seeing if breaking down
> > >>>>>> the sides of it would cause it to collapse. No such luck is
> > >>>>>> is the frame good and tight.
> > >>>>> If you've cut the seatpost and you're looking at a hollow
> > >>>>> tube, I wonder if you could use reams in increasing sizes (or
> > >>>>> I suppose drills) to increase the inside diameter of the
> > >>>>> seatpost stub until the wall thickness is small enough to
> > >>>>> collapse inward. Admittedly, I don't have experience cutting
> > >>>>> carbon fiber by any means.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> But if the frame tubes are now looking damaged, I guess it's
> > >>>>> too late for that. I'd be very reluctant to ride a visibly
> > >>>>> damaged carbon frame.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> My understanding is that carbon fiber dust is EXTREMELY
> > >>>> TOXIC/DANGEROUS and should not be inhaled in any amounts. IIRC,
> > >>>> a special filter mask is used by those even cutting cutting
> > >>>> carbon fiber let alone reaming it or sanding it.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Too bad that the seatpost was cut. Andrew Muzi did state the
> > >>>> the result of cutting a carbon fiber seatpost whllst some of
> > >>>> the seatpost was still in the frame would not be a wise thing
> > >>>> to do.
> > >>>>
> > >>> For crying out loud. Any fine powder can be toxic. You BODY is
> > >>> made up 83% of carbon and carbon compounds, what would make you
> > >>> think that carbon fiber is any more dangerous that blocking
> > >>> alveoli and the like?
> > >> My day, being more than 80 years old, doesn't mind handling
> > >> asbestos plates. At his age, the fine powder in the lungs won't
> > >> harm him. I aim to live another 40+ years so I prefer not to get
> > >> that kind of stuff into my lungs.
> > >
> > > When did carbon and asbestos become synonyms? Are there dangers of
> > > fine carbon particles?
> > This was *your* claim above: Any fine powder can be toxic.
> > The only way asbestos is toxic is that it emits powder of a certain zsie
> > and shape when machined.
> >
> > According to Wikipedia, carbon dust is about triple the size of asbestos
> > dust and therefore not *known* carcinogenic due to its size.
> > Nevertheless, there are strong work protection measures to be taken to
> > be on the safe side.
> >
> > Rolf
> Coal miners are famous for black lung disease. Funnily enough, the victims all were smoking coal miners.
Everyone smoked. Hollywood could not make a movie without everyone smoking. My father and his brothers smoked up to 8 packs a day. I smoked as much as 3 packs a day until my dying father made me promise to quit. There were newsreels of coal miners getting out of the mines where smoking was not permitted and the first thing they did was light up. And there would be coal mine explosions from someone that couldn't wait and would go back in a shaft and light up and kill 100 miners.