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tech / sci.astro.amateur / Re: Elon Musk Has Won.

SubjectAuthor
* Elon Musk Has Won.Quadibloc
+- Re: Elon Musk Has Won.Al Jacks
+* Re: Elon Musk Has Won.Ninapenda Jibini
|+* Re: Elon Musk Has Won.Quadibloc
||+* Re: Elon Musk Has Won.Michael F. Stemper
|||`- Re: Elon Musk Has Won.Quadibloc
||`- Re: Elon Musk Has Won.Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
|`- Re: Elon Musk Has Won.StarDust
`* Re: Elon Musk Has Won.Quadibloc
 `* Re: Elon Musk Has Won.Chris L Peterson
  `* Re: Elon Musk Has Won.Quadibloc
   +- Re: Elon Musk Has Won.fred k. engels®
   `* Re: Elon Musk Has Won.Chris L Peterson
    `- Re: Elon Musk Has Won.fred k. engels®

1
Elon Musk Has Won.

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Subject: Elon Musk Has Won.
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 17:54 UTC

I'm afraid that opposing Starlink is now futile.

https://hothardware.com/news/musk-lights-up-ukraine-with-starlink-internet-service

John Savard

Re: Elon Musk Has Won.

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From: non...@none.com (Al Jacks)
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Subject: Re: Elon Musk Has Won.
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 17:21:46 -0500
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 by: Al Jacks - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 22:21 UTC

On 2/27/22 12:54, Quadibloc wrote:
> I'm afraid that opposing Starlink is now futile.
>
> https://hothardware.com/news/musk-lights-up-ukraine-with-starlink-internet-service
>
> John Savard

Oh boy, don't get the whiner started.

Re: Elon Musk Has Won.

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Subject: Re: Elon Musk Has Won.
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Mon, 28 Feb 2022 06:54 UTC

RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote in
news:d58a305b-bbc1-4c41-8065-dd31b3912c4dn@googlegroups.com:

> On Sunday, 27 February 2022 at 12:54:32 UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
>> I'm afraid that opposing Starlink is now futile.
>>
>> https://hothardware.com/news/musk-lights-up-ukraine-with-starlin
>> k-internet-service
>>
>> John Savard
>
> "Lights up the Ukraine." The Ukraine would have been fine had
> not Clinton tricked them into giving up their nukes to Russia

Those would be nukes they have no operational control over, which
is to say, mildly hazardous paperweights?

> and Obama had goaded them into destroying over 50,000 rifles,
> rockets and thousands of TONS of ammunition.

They seem to be pretty well armed now.

> Now to myopic West
> is forced into a frantic effort to "re-arm" them so they can at
> least try to stand up to the Russians. F------- pathetic.
>
Since the Russians have yet to achieve a single one of their first
day objectives, and there are increasingly credible reports of
mutiny among the Russian troops, I'd say they're doing pretty well
so far.

It's basically a race to see which side exhausts their ability to
continue the conflict, with one side being supplied by outsiders,
and the other side . . . not.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: Elon Musk Has Won.

<26251cb7-9956-4531-8c22-7be006a0bc11n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Elon Musk Has Won.
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Mon, 28 Feb 2022 12:42 UTC

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:22:09 PM UTC-7, RichA wrote:

> "Lights up the Ukraine." The Ukraine would have been fine had not Clinton tricked them into giving up
> their nukes to Russia and Obama had goaded them into destroying over 50,000 rifles, rockets and thousands
> of TONS of ammunition. Now to myopic West is forced into a frantic effort to "re-arm" them so they can
> at least try to stand up to the Russians. F------- pathetic.

I will agree that, under Clinton, the United States did make incorrect
decisions that contributed to the current crisis.

However, not the ones you cite.

When Russia was our ally, it certainly was unfortunate that a couple
of economists from Harvard went over there and gave them very bad
advice which led to Putin being able to take power. But that could not
have been anticipated in order to be prevented.

However, according to a TIME magazine article during that period,
the People's Republic of China had exactly one submarine armed with
nuclear missiles _which was in dock for repairs_.

If true...

the United States should have taken the following steps:

1) Carry out a pre-emptive nuclear strike against China.

2) Carry out regime change in China.

3) Now that Russia would no longer face a threat from a
nuclear-armed China, enter into an arrangement in which Russia
recieves economic assistance from the United States in return
for completely scrapping its nuclear capability.

4) Now that India would no longer face a threat from a nuclear-armed
China, dissuade it from developing nuclear weapons, so that Pakistan
will not feel threatened and develop its own nuclear capability.

This would have eliminated the possibility of terrorists getting nukes
from Pakistan, and of the Chinese communist regime threatening the
United States, and of any future Russian regime, if its nascent
democracy under Boris Yeltsin failed to endure, threatening the free
countries of the world.

We would have finally had a return to the stable, peaceful
world order that existed prior to 1914.

John Savard

Re: Elon Musk Has Won.

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Subject: Re: Elon Musk Has Won.
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Mon, 28 Feb 2022 12:53 UTC

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:54:45 PM UTC-7, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:

> It's basically a race to see which side exhausts their ability to
> continue the conflict, with one side being supplied by outsiders,
> and the other side . . . not.

The only reason the Ukraine is able to fight at all is because Russia
held off on its initial missile attacks on the Ukraine.

While things look good at the moment - the Russian troops have
low morale, while the Ukrainians are fighting for their lives -
Russia has conventional missiles and air superiority with which
it _could_ dramatically change the balance of the conflict, if it isn't
too concerned about the... propaganda implications.

Fighting a war of aggression when half your country's foreign
exchange reserves happen to be in banks located in countries that
disapprove... also happens to be a less than clever move.

So far, the Ruble has lost 30% of its value. But that just makes the
Russian man in the street mildly annoyed. We are _not_ seeing
desperate frenzied mobs of starving masses trying to overthrow the
government with their bare hands just yet.

So which is more likely -

a) The Russian military decides it's had enough, and overthrows
Putin in a coup.

b) Putin withdraws Russian forces from the Ukraine, and steps down
as Russia's leader for the good of the country.

c) Putin ramps up military operations in the Ukraine so as to turn
the tide of the conflict in his favor.

Sadly, my money's on (c). The agony of the Ukrainian people is not
over by a long shot. And there's very little we can do about it.

Which is why we should have made it impossible _while we still
could_, long before this happened. By bringing the Ukraine into the
American defense perimeter - ideally, after the Crimean incursion,
and certainly after Russia entered the Eastern Ukraine *after having
told us he had no more ambitions in the Ukraine*.

The fact that he *lied* to us should have been recognized
as a very strong indication that the full invasion that's happening
now would be coming later.

So line the borders with American troops, so that we're the ones
who gets to tell Putin that if he tries something, the nukes fly. Instead,
Putin has the _fait accompli_ and we have to bow to
such threats.

John Savard

Re: Elon Musk Has Won.

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From: clp...@alumni.caltech.edu (Chris L Peterson)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: Elon Musk Has Won.
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 by: Chris L Peterson - Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:15 UTC

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 04:42:52 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:22:09 PM UTC-7, RichA wrote:
>
>> "Lights up the Ukraine." The Ukraine would have been fine had not Clinton tricked them into giving up
>> their nukes to Russia and Obama had goaded them into destroying over 50,000 rifles, rockets and thousands
>> of TONS of ammunition. Now to myopic West is forced into a frantic effort to "re-arm" them so they can
>> at least try to stand up to the Russians. F------- pathetic.
>
>I will agree that, under Clinton, the United States did make incorrect
>decisions that contributed to the current crisis.

Every administration has done a poor job of dealing with Russia. But
nothing comes close to what Trump did... being Putin's puppet and
actively enabling that corrupt regime. What is happening now is a
direct consequence of Putin's control of Trump.

Re: Elon Musk Has Won.

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Subject: Re: Elon Musk Has Won.
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:56 UTC

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 7:15:16 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:

> Every administration has done a poor job of dealing with Russia. But
> nothing comes close to what Trump did... being Putin's puppet and
> actively enabling that corrupt regime. What is happening now is a
> direct consequence of Putin's control of Trump.

I can blame Trump for Afghanistan, and I agree Trump was Putin's
puppet, but to me it does not appear that if we had a run-of-the-mill
administration like that of Joe Biden in place during the Trump years
instead, anything would necessarily be different now as regards
Russia invading the Ukraine.

John Savard

Re: Elon Musk Has Won.

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From: burynulP...@ppllaanneett.nnll (fred k. engels®)
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Subject: Re: Elon Musk Has Won.
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 by: fred k. engels® - Mon, 28 Feb 2022 15:15 UTC

Prime Minister Justin Blackface has just tweeted his condolences
So, How's that pretty picture astro photography horseshit® working out for
ya?

https://twitter.com/davidkurten/status/1495343873538801667/photo/1

Re: Elon Musk Has Won.

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From: clp...@alumni.caltech.edu (Chris L Peterson)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: Elon Musk Has Won.
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 by: Chris L Peterson - Mon, 28 Feb 2022 15:16 UTC

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 06:56:57 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 7:15:16 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>
>> Every administration has done a poor job of dealing with Russia. But
>> nothing comes close to what Trump did... being Putin's puppet and
>> actively enabling that corrupt regime. What is happening now is a
>> direct consequence of Putin's control of Trump.
>
>I can blame Trump for Afghanistan, and I agree Trump was Putin's
>puppet, but to me it does not appear that if we had a run-of-the-mill
>administration like that of Joe Biden in place during the Trump years
>instead, anything would necessarily be different now as regards
>Russia invading the Ukraine.

If we had not had Trump, we would still have a State Department, we
would still have professional diplomats. If we had not had Trump, we
would not have a Putin that has substantial control over the U.S.
citizenry and U.S. politics. If we could set the clock back 5 years,
there is every reason to think things would look very different today.

Re: Elon Musk Has Won.

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From: michael....@gmail.com (Michael F. Stemper)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: Elon Musk Has Won.
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 09:48:40 -0600
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 by: Michael F. Stemper - Mon, 28 Feb 2022 15:48 UTC

On 28/02/2022 06.53, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:54:45 PM UTC-7, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>
>> It's basically a race to see which side exhausts their ability to
>> continue the conflict, with one side being supplied by outsiders,
>> and the other side . . . not.
>
> The only reason the Ukraine is able to fight at all is because Russia
> held off on its initial missile attacks on the Ukraine.

It's not "the Ukraine", it's simply "Ukraine", and has been since its
independence in 1991:

<https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18233844>

--
Michael F. Stemper
Isaiah 58:6-7

Re: Elon Musk Has Won.

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Subject: Re: Elon Musk Has Won.
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Mon, 28 Feb 2022 16:10 UTC

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 8:48:51 AM UTC-7, Michael F. Stemper wrote:

> It's not "the Ukraine", it's simply "Ukraine", and has been since its
> independence in 1991:

And here I've been waiting for them to change their name from "the Ukraine"
to "Ukrainia".

John Savard

Re: Elon Musk Has Won.

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Subject: Re: Elon Musk Has Won.
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Mon, 28 Feb 2022 20:57 UTC

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:2daf913d-91bb-42b4-9c97-a5e978217096n@googlegroups.com:

> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:54:45 PM UTC-7, Ninapenda
> Jibini wrote:
>
>> It's basically a race to see which side exhausts their ability
>> to continue the conflict, with one side being supplied by
>> outsiders, and the other side . . . not.
>
> The only reason the Ukraine is able to fight at all is because
> Russia held off on its initial missile attacks on the Ukraine.

Perhaps because they know their missiles don't work too well. Or
perhaps they're afraid of outright mutinty if they give those
orders.

You don't know.
>
> While things look good at the moment - the Russian troops have
> low morale, while the Ukrainians are fighting for their lives -
> Russia has conventional missiles and air superiority

No, they really don't have air superiority. And whatever edge they
have is evaporating, as more and more countries send more and more
planes, which will be, apparently, based in Poland, which *is* a
member of NATO. Attack that, and Article 5 is automatically
invoked. Failure on the part of the US to meet its NATO obligations
will see the end of the Democratic Party for generations.

> with which
> it _could_ dramatically change the balance of the conflict, if
> it isn't too concerned about the... propaganda implications.

Unless the Russian economy collapses completely, and the troops in
Ukraine - which are already abandoning equiopment, including
*tanks*, because they lack supplies - surrender because the other
side will at least be able to feed them. (Remember the Gulf War?)
>
> Fighting a war of aggression when half your country's foreign
> exchange reserves happen to be in banks located in countries
> that disapprove... also happens to be a less than clever move.

Quite a few people who are experts in their field, who know Putin
personally, are beginning to question his mental competence. I
haven't seen the words "lost his shit" yet, but there are people
saying the same thing in more polite terms.
>
> So far, the Ruble has lost 30% of its value.

And their state bank just raised interest rates to 20%.

But that just makes
> the Russian man in the street mildly annoyed. We are _not_
> seeing desperate frenzied mobs of starving masses trying to
> overthrow the government with their bare hands just yet.

Yet is a very big word for so few letters.
>
> So which is more likely -
>
> a) The Russian military decides it's had enough, and overthrows
> Putin in a coup.
>
> b) Putin withdraws Russian forces from the Ukraine, and steps
> down as Russia's leader for the good of the country.
>
> c) Putin ramps up military operations in the Ukraine so as to
> turn the tide of the conflict in his favor.
>
> Sadly, my money's on (c). The agony of the Ukrainian people is
> not over by a long shot. And there's very little we can do about
> it.

Orders for (c) may well lead to (a). There's rumors of mutinous
units *now* .
>
> Which is why we should have made it impossible _while we still
> could_, long before this happened.

You keep using that word "we." I do not think it means what you
think it means. Canada *never* could have done anything to even get
Putin's attention. And the US is run by people who are either
criminally incompetent and corrupt, or actively in the pay of
Russia. It's hard to tell the difference any more.

> By bringing the Ukraine into
> the American defense perimeter

They had the opportunity to join NATO, and said no. Would you
literally invade and conquer them to *force* them in? I supposed
you would, in your insane, violent fantasy world.

> - ideally, after the Crimean
> incursion, and certainly after Russia entered the Eastern
> Ukraine *after having told us he had no more ambitions in the
> Ukraine*.

I will note that this invasion, and the siezure of Crimea, both
occured during Democratic adminstrations. It's almost like Putin
knows what cowardly, sycophant weasels the left are.
>
> The fact that he *lied* to us should have been recognized
> as a very strong indication that the full invasion that's
> happening now would be coming later.

What leads you to believe it wasn't? What leads you to believe the
current US administration doesn't actively approve of what Putin's
doing? Certainly none of their actions suggest that.
>
> So line the borders with American troops, so that we're the ones
> who gets to tell Putin that if he tries something, the nukes
> fly. Instead, Putin has the _fait accompli_ and we have to bow
> to such threats.

Democrats have been sucking Putin's dick for years, and love the
taste.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Re: Elon Musk Has Won.

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Subject: Re: Elon Musk Has Won.
From: csok...@gmail.com (StarDust)
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 by: StarDust - Mon, 28 Feb 2022 23:47 UTC

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 3:32:43 PM UTC-8, RichA wrote:
> On Monday, 28 February 2022 at 01:54:45 UTC-5, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> > RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote in
> > news:d58a305b-bbc1-4c41...@googlegroups.com:
> > > On Sunday, 27 February 2022 at 12:54:32 UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
> > >> I'm afraid that opposing Starlink is now futile.
> > >>
> > >> https://hothardware.com/news/musk-lights-up-ukraine-with-starlin
> > >> k-internet-service
> > >>
> > >> John Savard
> > >
> > > "Lights up the Ukraine." The Ukraine would have been fine had
> > > not Clinton tricked them into giving up their nukes to Russia
> > Those would be nukes they have no operational control over, which
> > is to say, mildly hazardous paperweights?
> > > and Obama had goaded them into destroying over 50,000 rifles,
> > > rockets and thousands of TONS of ammunition.
> > They seem to be pretty well armed now.
> Hardly. That 17 mile long convoy of tanks and trucks could be dealt with by the American air force in about 2 hours. It's going to destroy the Ukraine because frankly, molotov cocktails don't work on tanks...

Hardly, because protected by Russian air defenses!
You're thinking of Kuwait, where the Iraq army was pulling out hastily without air cover, exposed to attack!

Re: Elon Musk Has Won.

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From: burynulP...@ppllaanneett.nnll (fred k. engels®)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: Elon Musk Has Won.
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 06:49:17 -0800
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 by: fred k. engels® - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:49 UTC

WONDERFUL NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!
Elon Musk TIME's 2021 Person of the Year and a God to the horseshit® pretty
picture astro photographers but also a
BELOVED friend of astronomy has just launched
another massive number of new satellites!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EoAHdwGBvU

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