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tech / sci.electronics.repair / Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times

SubjectAuthor
* Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Peter W.
|`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Peter W.
+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
|+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
|`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -ohg...@gmail.com
+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -John McGaw
|+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -AJL
||`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
|`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequentlyChris
 |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -John McGaw
 || +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |   `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |    `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |     +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |     `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |      +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |      `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || |       `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Peter W.
 || |        `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -ohg...@gmail.com
 || `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 ||+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 ||+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 || `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Wade Garrett
 ||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 ||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Wade Garrett
 ||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 ||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 ||  `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 ||+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 |||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 ||| `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 |||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 |||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 |||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reClifford Heath
 |||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 |||  `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 ||+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 |||`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -AJL
 || ||+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Phil Allison
 || ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || || +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -AJL
 || || `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequentlyChris
 || ||  +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || ||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || ||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking remike
 || ||  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Tim R
 || ||   `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -ohg...@gmail.com
 || |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || ||+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || ||`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Phil Allison
 || |+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Bob F
 || | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |   `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |    +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |    `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |     +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |     `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |      `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |       `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | | +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | | +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || |        | | | |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | |   +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |   |+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |   |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -ohg...@gmail.com
 || |        | | |   +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |   `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |    +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |    +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |    |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |    | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -ohg...@gmail.com
 || |        | | |    |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |    |   `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -ohg...@gmail.com
 || |        | | |    `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | |     +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |     |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |     `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || |        | | `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Bob F
 || |        | `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || |        `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli

Pages:123456
Subject: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Andy Burnelli
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 17:19 UTC
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!Gj+613xB9sVIQxAtFideEw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 18:19:30 +0100
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I am testing if it takes _longer_ to "fast charge" a phone if you
_frequently_ let the battery run down to zero - and it seems to be.

Case in point, I've been letting the phone run to shutoff overnight (by
running NewPipe YouTube videos and disabling the screen shutoff).

In the morning, invariably, when I boot the phone back, it's at 4%.

Then I have a sentence that says "your phone is at 100%" so I don't have to
watch the charging go on, and then I snapshot the status periodically.

Lookit this!
https://i.postimg.cc/T1CkDhcC/charging12.jpg Fastcharge in about 2 hrs
https://i.postimg.cc/zGvhGxSb/charging13.jpg Fastcharge in 2-1/4 hours
https://i.postimg.cc/W1rgxwNB/charging15.jpg Fastcharge in 2-3/4 hours Just what one might expect (although I agree the dataset is minimal).
I'll keep testing this as I'm curious what happens in the real world.

Luckily all modern phones nowadays have huge batteries so it matters less
how long it takes since it always takes less than 3 hours from empty using
the charger that came free in the box (and which I didn't have to buy).

Anyway, here's the full set (notice I went from Android 11 to Android 12).
https://i.postimg.cc/qvHYTf3L/charging01.jpg Huge charging indicators
https://i.postimg.cc/cL7z1D7N/charging02.jpg Customizable sound alert
https://i.postimg.cc/CKFQRjJn/charging03.jpg All sorts of indicators
https://i.postimg.cc/jSX2j0Mj/charging04.jpg Tested many battery apps
https://i.postimg.cc/sXBgKBsB/charging05.jpg Usage & predictive graphs
https://i.postimg.cc/8CCjC1VT/charging06.jpg Big percentage indicators
https://i.postimg.cc/yNrWgwVc/charging07.jpg Evertyhing you'd want
https://i.postimg.cc/gchrjS1L/charging08.jpg Resize widgets to taste
https://i.postimg.cc/9fSngSyH/charging09.jpg Charging settings & chimes
https://i.postimg.cc/Hs8srGDF/charging10.jpg 4 hour slow charge
https://i.postimg.cc/W1D9dNqw/charging11.jpg Fastcharge in about 2 hrs
https://i.postimg.cc/T1CkDhcC/charging12.jpg Fastcharge in about 2 hrs
https://i.postimg.cc/zGvhGxSb/charging13.jpg Fastcharge in 2-1/4 hours
https://i.postimg.cc/FK7RLSby/charging14.jpg Multi-port USB chargers
https://i.postimg.cc/W1rgxwNB/charging15.jpg Fastcharge in 2-3/4 hours --
Usenet is a world-wide team sport where purposefully helpful kind-hearted
adults help each other and learn by pooling our individual capabilities.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Peter W.
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.repair
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 18:38 UTC
References: 1
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Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
From: peterwie...@gmail.com (Peter W.)
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It appears to be BAAACK. Please do not feed the troll.

In the off-chance that this is NOT Jimmy Neutron in its latest incarnation:

a) It is really, really stupid to run any battery 'down to zero'. They are chemical engines that are damaged by this behavior. Without exception.
b) Should you have the discretionary income and time to pursue this activity anyway, you certainly do not need approval from this or any other venue.
c) Most of us here (OK, at least a few of us here) well understand the nature of batteries as chemical engines and do not need to re-invent the wheel.
d) Those that do not deserve exactly what follows.

Again, please DO NOT feed the troll!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA



Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 19:11 UTC
References: 1
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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 21:11:25 +0200
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On 2022-05-05 19:19, Andy Burnelli wrote:
I am testing if it takes _longer_ to "fast charge" a phone if you
_frequently_ let the battery run down to zero - and it seems to be.

Somewhat related, I saw this past Saturday an article about a study testing charging batteries to full (of electric cars), or only a percent.

The article is in Spanish, but you can use google translate to read it. It points to a study in German, but I do not see its link.

Seems that the best is to limit the battery cycle to 20%/80%. Interestingly, my new moto g52 phone can limit the charge to 80% and has functionality to disconnect charger when its' been continuously connected for 3 days. I don't know if this will work with any charger or has to be the manufacturer one. I think the former.

--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: John McGaw
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: Easynews - www.easynews.com
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 19:33 UTC
References: 1
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Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
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On 5/5/2022 1:19 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
I am testing if it takes _longer_ to "fast charge" a phone if you
_frequently_ let the battery run down to zero - and it seems to be.

snip...

I have no idea. In my entire experience using mobiles I've never gotten to zero. I take my phone off of the wireless charger on my night table every morning, use the phone all day, and every evening I put it back. Sometimes it might be down to 35-45%. Last night, for the first time that I recall the phone warned me that it was low and was going into battery saving mode. That really shocked me but, looking back, I had wasted _many_ bored hours at the Subaru dealership and the phone was active much more than usual. As for damaging the battery, I don't worry since the "adaptive charging" feature is gentle, making sure that the battery is up to full by alarm time in the morning but never forcing the matter. There are important things in life to worry about but charge times is not one of them, for me at least.

--
Noli sinere pessimi nequissimique te tristificare!


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: sms
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 20:06 UTC
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From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 13:06:36 -0700
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On 5/5/2022 12:11 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-05-05 19:19, Andy Burnelli wrote:
I am testing if it takes _longer_ to "fast charge" a phone if you
_frequently_ let the battery run down to zero - and it seems to be.

Somewhat related, I saw this past Saturday an article about a study testing charging batteries to full (of electric cars), or only a percent.

The article is in Spanish, but you can use google translate to read it. It points to a study in German, but I do not see its link.

Seems that the best is to limit the battery cycle to 20%/80%.

There are two ways that EV makers are able to guarantee their batteries for 100K miles. The first is to limit how high it charges and how low it discharges. The second is to define what constitutes "excessive capacity loss."


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: AJL
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 20:23 UTC
References: 1 2
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From: noem...@none.com (AJL)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
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On 5/5/2022 12:33 PM, John McGaw wrote:

In my entire experience using mobiles I've never gotten to zero. I
take my phone off of the wireless charger on my night table every
morning, use the phone all day, and every evening I put it back.

Me too. I have always done it that way whether with wireless or regular
chargers. 100% charge every morning. And so far the battery has always
outlasted the phone before being replaced. And I've never needed it
(yet) but that extra 20% charge just might come in handy someday...



Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jolly Roger
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: People for the Ethical Treatment of Pirates
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 22:20 UTC
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From: jollyro...@pobox.com (Jolly Roger)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: 5 May 2022 22:20:48 GMT
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On 2022-05-05, John McGaw <Nobody@Nowh.ere> wrote:

In my entire experience using mobiles I've never gotten to zero. I
take my phone off of the wireless charger on my night table every
morning, use the phone all day, and every evening I put it back.
Sometimes it might be down to 35-45%. Last night, for the first time
that I recall the phone warned me that it was low and was going into
battery saving mode.  That really shocked me but, looking back, I had
wasted _many_ bored hours at the Subaru dealership and the phone was
active much more than usual. As for damaging the battery, I don't
worry since the "adaptive charging" feature is gentle, making sure
that the battery is up to full by alarm time in the morning but never
forcing the matter. There are important things in life to worry about
but charge times is not one of them, for me at least.

Same here. I never think about charging, other than throwing it on the
charger before going to sleep. Our devices are here to serve us, and not
the other way around. Personally, I have far more productive things to
do than babysit my devices.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jolly Roger
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: People for the Ethical Treatment of Pirates
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 22:22 UTC
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From: jollyro...@pobox.com (Jolly Roger)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
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On 2022-05-05, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 5/5/2022 12:33 PM, John McGaw wrote:

In my entire experience using mobiles I've never gotten to zero. I
take my phone off of the wireless charger on my night table every
morning, use the phone all day, and every evening I put it back.

Me too. I have always done it that way whether with wireless or
regular chargers. 100% charge every morning. And so far the battery
has always outlasted the phone before being replaced. And I've never
needed it (yet) but that extra 20% charge just might come in handy
someday...

Same here. I keep a charge cable handy in the car and living room in
case I need it, but that's a rarity. I can't recall the last time I
needed it.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jeff Liebermann
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 04:27 UTC
References: 1
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From: jef...@cruzio.com (Jeff Liebermann)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 21:27:13 -0700
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On Thu, 5 May 2022 18:19:30 +0100, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com>
wrote:

I am testing if it takes _longer_ to "fast charge" a phone if you
_frequently_ let the battery run down to zero - and it seems to be.

Why?  Kinda reminds me the Chernobyl, where the fools were trying see
if they could squeeze some power out of the reactor that was almost,
but not quite shut down.  It didn't go well for the Russians and is
likely to go badly with your battery. 

Couldn't you just recharge the battery starting at 20% of capacity and
live with that?  If you must run your phone overnight playing videos
that nobody watches, then buy an external battery bank and do your
best to kill it.

Do you also add gasoline to your car just before you totally run out
of gasoline?

Also, I have a little experiment going with two friends.  We all have
the same Moto G Power (2020) phones that were purchased with a month
of each other.  I also have an identical spare (loaner) phone, that I
don't use much.  Usage patterns and apps are quite different between
us.  So are the battery recharge patterns.  Two of us use the stock 10
watt charger, while one uses a 30 watt charger.  I also have a 30 watt
charger, but have only used it maybe 3 times, when I really needed a
fast charge.  After about a year of data logging (using AccuBattery
Pro) the batteries on the 10 watt chargers are currently at 97% and
98% (from a 105% start when new) of the rated 5000ma-hr capacity.  The
phone on the 30 watt charger is currently showing 92%.  The
implication is that fast charging is slowly killing the battery.  I
tend to recharge mine when it is 50% charged.  The owner of the 30
watt charger seems to recharge at 20%, which might be another factor
in killing his battery.  Partial screen grab:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/AccuBattery%20Pro%20Moto%20G%20Power%20(2020).jpg
Full report in maybe 6 to 9 months.
 

--
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Chris
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 07:57 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ithink...@gmail.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently
- checking re-charge times
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 07:57:08 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Thu, 5 May 2022 18:19:30 +0100, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com>
wrote:

I am testing if it takes _longer_ to "fast charge" a phone if you
_frequently_ let the battery run down to zero - and it seems to be.

Why?  Kinda reminds me the Chernobyl, where the fools were trying see
if they could squeeze some power out of the reactor that was almost,
but not quite shut down.  It didn't go well for the Russians and is
likely to go badly with your battery. 

Couldn't you just recharge the battery starting at 20% of capacity and
live with that?  If you must run your phone overnight playing videos
that nobody watches, then buy an external battery bank and do your
best to kill it.

Do you also add gasoline to your car just before you totally run out
of gasoline?

Also, I have a little experiment going with two friends.  We all have
the same Moto G Power (2020) phones that were purchased with a month
of each other.  I also have an identical spare (loaner) phone, that I
don't use much.  Usage patterns and apps are quite different between
us.  So are the battery recharge patterns.  Two of us use the stock 10
watt charger, while one uses a 30 watt charger.  I also have a 30 watt
charger, but have only used it maybe 3 times, when I really needed a
fast charge.  After about a year of data logging (using AccuBattery
Pro) the batteries on the 10 watt chargers are currently at 97% and
98% (from a 105% start when new) of the rated 5000ma-hr capacity.  The
phone on the 30 watt charger is currently showing 92%.  The
implication is that fast charging is slowly killing the battery. 

Interesting to see it born out in practice, but it is a known fact. Fast
charging heats up the battery and heat damages the battery, therefore fast
charging will reduce the battery life.




Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 09:14 UTC
References: 1 2 3
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 11:14:05 +0200
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On 2022-05-06 09:57, Chris wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Thu, 5 May 2022 18:19:30 +0100, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com>
wrote:

I am testing if it takes _longer_ to "fast charge" a phone if you
_frequently_ let the battery run down to zero - and it seems to be.

Why?  Kinda reminds me the Chernobyl, where the fools were trying see
if they could squeeze some power out of the reactor that was almost,
but not quite shut down.  It didn't go well for the Russians and is
likely to go badly with your battery.

Couldn't you just recharge the battery starting at 20% of capacity and
live with that?  If you must run your phone overnight playing videos
that nobody watches, then buy an external battery bank and do your
best to kill it.

Do you also add gasoline to your car just before you totally run out
of gasoline?

Also, I have a little experiment going with two friends.  We all have
the same Moto G Power (2020) phones that were purchased with a month
of each other.  I also have an identical spare (loaner) phone, that I
don't use much.  Usage patterns and apps are quite different between
us.  So are the battery recharge patterns.  Two of us use the stock 10
watt charger, while one uses a 30 watt charger.  I also have a 30 watt
charger, but have only used it maybe 3 times, when I really needed a
fast charge.  After about a year of data logging (using AccuBattery
Pro) the batteries on the 10 watt chargers are currently at 97% and
98% (from a 105% start when new) of the rated 5000ma-hr capacity.  The
phone on the 30 watt charger is currently showing 92%.  The
implication is that fast charging is slowly killing the battery.

Interesting to see it born out in practice, but it is a known fact. Fast
charging heats up the battery and heat damages the battery, therefore fast
charging will reduce the battery life.

It would be nice if when pluging the charger the phone asked whether we want a fast or a slow charge.


--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: sms
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 10:11 UTC
References: 1 2 3
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 03:11:39 -0700
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On 5/6/2022 12:57 AM, Chris wrote:

<snip>

Interesting to see it born out in practice, but it is a known fact. Fast
charging heats up the battery and heat damages the battery, therefore fast
charging will reduce the battery life.

Actually there is no evidence that "fast charging," at the rates we're currently seeing on most phones, damages batteries.

The phone firmware manages the charge rate. If you look at the Galaxy S22, which Samsung touts as having a charge rate of up to 45 watts, there is barely any difference in charge time between using a 45 watt charger versus a 25 watt charger because the phone manages the charge rate and the high rate only occurs when the battery is nearly empty. The phone reduces the charge rate as the battery charges.

"According to industry experts, a battery when charged with a fast charger is most stressed after the 80 percent charge level. This is the time when high voltage current is not absorbed by the battery as efficiently as it does when charging from zero to 50 percent. Lithium-ion batteries are like a sponge – they absorb the charge efficiently during the initial phase and begin to drop-off after 70-80 percent charge level. https://www.slashgear.com/779353/smartphone-fast-charging-technology-myths-and-facts

If you plug in a USB current/voltage/power meter during charging, you'll see that the phone reduces the charging rate as the battery charges to prevent stressing the battery.

The iPhone 13 Pro Max has a 16.75WH battery. Battery manufacturers recommend a charge rate of 0.8C or less which would mean a 13.4W charge rate. But the 0.8C recommendation is misleading because it assumes a constant charge rate all the way up to 100%. In reality, there is no damage from a higher charge rate when the charger rate is tapered down as the battery charges, which is exactly how phones are now designed.
When you're talking about really fast charging, like the 200 watt charging that Xiaomi is coming out with, then that may be another story.

Also see https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-409-charging-lithium-ion and https://engineering.stanford.edu/magazine/article/rapid-charging-and-draining-doesn-t-damage-lithium-ion-battery-electrodes-much


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 11:23 UTC
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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
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In article <t52s8u$edg$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

Interesting to see it born out in practice, but it is a known fact. Fast
charging heats up the battery and heat damages the battery, therefore fast
charging will reduce the battery life.

Actually there is no evidence that "fast charging," at the rates we're
currently seeing on most phones, damages batteries.

actually, there is extensive evidence.

whether it matters for a device that will be replaced in a couple of
years is another story.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jeff Liebermann
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 14:53 UTC
References: 1 2 3
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
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From: jef...@cruzio.com (Jeff Liebermann)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 07:53:16 -0700
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On Fri, 6 May 2022 07:57:08 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

Interesting to see it born out in practice, but it is a known fact. Fast
charging heats up the battery and heat damages the battery, therefore fast
charging will reduce the battery life.

Nope, or at least not what I've seen with my testing (and screwing
around).  A few decades ago, I decided that NiCd cells would only
become warm if over charged past 100%.  Well, I was off a little but
my thermocouple tests showed that up to about 75% of full charge, I
could literally charge the NiCd cell at whatever sky high rate I found
amusing.  The problem was that if I missed and went over about 85% of
full charge at the ridiculous rates I was using, the cell would
generate enough gas and heat to blow the end out and generally make a
mess.

Roll forward to a few years ago, and I'm doing the same charge tests
with LiIon cells.  It was pretty much the same story.  I could charge
at almost any rate I wanted as long as I didn't go over about 75 or
80% of full charge.  The battery remained cool and did not overhead.
Past about 75%, the cell started to get warm.  You can easily
reproduce the effect with any LiIon fast charger and a phone app that
displays battery temperature.  I think I was using DevInfo Pro:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.asterisklab.devinfo
Try:  Temperature tab -> chrg_therm
and   Temperature tab -> battery
Sorry, not graphs but other programs will plot most of the internal
sensors.  Unfortunately, you won't see the battery temp rise very much
because the phone reduces the fast charge rate at 80% to some lower
number.

My guess(tm) is that it's not the temperature that kills the
batteries, but rather the charge rate and number of charge cycles that
does the damage.

Gotta run...

--
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jeff Liebermann
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 15:07 UTC
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From: jef...@cruzio.com (Jeff Liebermann)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 08:07:34 -0700
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On Fri, 6 May 2022 03:11:39 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

Actually there is no evidence that "fast charging," at the rates we're
currently seeing on most phones, damages batteries.

I realize that it's anecdotal evidence, but two identical Moto G Power
(2020) phones, charged with 10 watt and 30 watt chargers, seem to show
that the measured battery capacity (ma-hr) is dropping for the 30 watt
charger.  I'll admit that it's not much in the way of evidence or even
a controlled experiment, but it should provide a hint that there might
be a problem.

About 6 months after I bought my first Moto G Power (2020), I bought
another identical phone on eBay as a spare and loaner.  It arrived
with a battery life showing 97% of rated capacity.  At the time, my
original phone was showing 105%.  I asked the sell what he was doing
to cause the decrease.  I eventually found that he was using
replacement charger that indicated "Turbo Power connected" on the home
screen, which methinks is Motorola speak for 30 watt charging.  My 10
watt charger displays "Charging Rapidly".  Not the best evidence, but
does suggest a possible problem.  Also, it's difficult for me to
perform battery life tests because the phone will be obsolete by the
time my testing is complete.

--
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jeff Liebermann
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 15:14 UTC
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From: jef...@cruzio.com (Jeff Liebermann)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 08:14:34 -0700
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On Fri, 06 May 2022 07:53:16 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

I think I was using DevInfo Pro:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.asterisklab.devinfo
Try:  Temperature tab -> chrg_therm
and   Temperature tab -> battery

Oops.  Wrong app.  The one I was using is:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.liuzh.deviceinfo

--
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jolly Roger
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Organization: People for the Ethical Treatment of Pirates
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From: jollyro...@pobox.com (Jolly Roger)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
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On 2022-05-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Thu, 5 May 2022 18:19:30 +0100, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com>
wrote:

I am testing if it takes _longer_ to "fast charge" a phone if you
_frequently_ let the battery run down to zero - and it seems to be.

Why?  Kinda reminds me the Chernobyl, where the fools were trying see
if they could squeeze some power out of the reactor that was almost,
but not quite shut down.  It didn't go well for the Russians and is
likely to go badly with your battery. 

(snip)

After about a year of data logging (using AccuBattery Pro) the
batteries on the 10 watt chargers are currently at 97% and 98% (from
a 105% start when new) of the rated 5000ma-hr capacity.  The phone on
the 30 watt charger is currently showing 92%.  The implication is
that fast charging is slowly killing the battery. 

Interesting to see it born out in practice, but it is a known fact.
Fast charging heats up the battery and heat damages the battery,
therefore fast charging will reduce the battery life.

It's also an established fact that running a battery down to zero
repeatedly will increase heat and prematurely age the battery as well.
Laughably, Arlen (Andy) is willingly harming his battery for no real
benefit. You can't fix stupid. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
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Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
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Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I am testing if it takes _longer_ to "fast charge" a phone if you
_frequently_ let the battery run down to zero - and it seems to be.

Why?

That's like asking a chemistry teacher why there's a chemistry lab.
Or asking a physics professor why she bothers to run the lab.
Or asking why a microbiology class bothers to grow bacterial cultures.

Bear in mind that the answer to the question of what kind of charging
damages a smartphone battery has about a billi... no... a few billion
questions on the Internet... with answers spanning the globe.

So it's not just me who is curious what happens in the real world.

I've always been curious about the best way to do almost any thing.
And destructive testing is a fantastic way to figure out what really
happens in the real world under real world conditions, even as you can't
hope to run a "consumers report" style full-fledged scientific
investigation with basic home equipment.

Still... I try to learn... and destructive testing is part of learning.
When I was a kid, my dad kept a box of old "stuff" for me to take apart.

The first time I took apart a 6V battery, it stunk and was all crumbly.
But then I _learned_ how they make 9V batteries by taking it apart.
And, I was shocked when I took apart a Radio Shack D-sized NiCad battery!

In graduate school, I was tasked with figuring out why defibrillators
failed and then when I took apart the batteries, I was shocked (in the
opposite direction!) when I took apart their GE C-cell soldered battery
assembly).

What a freaking difference between the Radio Shack "D", um, I mean "secret
C" cell Ni-Cad and the GE industrial strength C cells by weight alone!

I shorted them, of course, where the Radio Shack c cell barely burned the
wire but where the huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge current surge of the low-impedence
current source of the GE battery literally burned out a Romex ground wire!

When I took apart old TVs, I would marvel at the intricacy of the vacuum
tubes and when I imploded the monitor, I was surprised by the force. I'd
even marvel as the lovely yellow selenium (I think it was selenium) plates
which were used as diodes (although I was sure not to overheat them!).

When I took apart a 1950's baseball catchers mitt and my mother's 1940's
era high heels, I marveled at the fantastic construction, just as I did
when I rewound my own alternator coils (it's hard to keep the wires taught
enough not to vibrate and to coat them with a non-conductive heat-resistant
coating with just a kitchen oven and bench vise).

I replaced my battery's sulfuric acid and I autopsy every part that ever
failed on my cars and bikes just so that I learn how & why they failed.

When I moved from NY I had to empty my welding tanks, so I filled up
balloons with oxygen and acetylene, and I _learned_ how _loud_ that could
be.

In chemistry class, I mixed iodine crystals with nitric acid, and after
drying with alcohol and acetone, a fly landing on it would touch it off
(emanating a lovely purple cloud).

In Physics lab, I'd stick circa 30VDC large electrolytic caps in the lab
bench switched branch of electrical sockets - which I'm sure you know what
they looked like even before the autopsy.

To learn about impedance, I literally hooked up a 120VAC circuit using
_only_ capacitors, resistors and coils, where, since you know the math,
it's hard to find handy the right size for those things.

I even ran an autopsy on my cat (internal damage as far as I could tell).

Why does anyone run any experiment?
--
The only class that doesn't have a lab that SHOULD are math classes
(which is why, I think, kids don't learn math as well as they can).


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jolly Roger
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Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
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On 2022-05-06, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
On 5/6/2022 12:57 AM, Chris wrote:

<snip>

Interesting to see it born out in practice, but it is a known fact.
Fast charging heats up the battery and heat damages the battery,
therefore fast charging will reduce the battery life.

Actually there is no evidence that "fast charging," at the rates we're
currently seeing on most phones, damages batteries.

Wrong. There's plenty of evidence that fast charging increases heat
which is damaging to batteries.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jolly Roger
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On 2022-05-06, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

My guess(tm) is that it's not the temperature that kills the
batteries, but rather the charge rate and number of charge cycles that
does the damage.

Temperature definitely plays a part in it.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jeff Liebermann
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 15:54 UTC
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From: jef...@cruzio.com (Jeff Liebermann)
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Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
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On 6 May 2022 15:44:56 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

On 2022-05-06, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

My guess(tm) is that it's not the temperature that kills the
batteries, but rather the charge rate and number of charge cycles that
does the damage.

Temperature definitely plays a part in it.

I was referring to charging temperature, not ambient temperature.
LiIon cells are useless below 0C.  Body heat helps keep the phone
warm.  Yes, temperature has an effect:
https://www.google.com/search?q=lithium+ion+battery+cold+weather

However, I'm talking about the temperature rise inside the LiIon cell
during charging.  If the charge controller is worthy of its name, one
of its primary functions is to limit the temperature rise inside the
battery.  If it doesn't do it's job, then yes, there will be problems.
However, if it keeps the temperature rise reasonable by reducing the
charge rate, there should be no loss in cell life.

--
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
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Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
From: ohge...@gmail.com (ohg...@gmail.com)
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On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 3:12:11 PM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-05-05 19:19, Andy Burnelli wrote:
I am testing if it takes _longer_ to "fast charge" a phone if you
_frequently_ let the battery run down to zero - and it seems to be.
Somewhat related, I saw this past Saturday an article about a study
testing charging batteries to full (of electric cars), or only a percent.

The article is in Spanish, but you can use google translate to read it.
It points to a study in German, but I do not see its link.

Seems that the best is to limit the battery cycle to 20%/80%.


That is true.  My Tesla allows me to program the charging to whatever level I want.  I plug in twice a week and it stops charging at 80%.   80% gives me about 250 miles of useful range.  Most manufacturers limit the amount of charge to a specific percentage of the pack's capacity to prevent owners from charging to 100% every single night.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Andy Burnelli
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
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Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
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Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Oops.  Wrong app.  The one I was using is:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.liuzh.deviceinfo

To add more to that suggestion, personally I install only apps that are GSF
free and that don't contain ads and which have high'ish ratings & installs.
  *DevCheck Hardware and System Info* by flar2
  Free + inapp, ad free, google free, gsf free, rated 4.8, 1M+ installs
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=flar2.devcheck

 *Inware* by evowizz
  Free, ad free, google free, gsf free, rated 4.4, 100K+ installs
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.evo.inware

 *Device Info HW* by Andrey Efremov
  Free, ad free, google free, gsf free, rated 4.7, 1M+ installs
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.andr7e.deviceinfohw

My FOSS google play store client sets filters to only show such apps.
https://i.postimg.cc/RF06HBB3/aurora05.jpg Only high ratings & installs
https://i.postimg.cc/RhpcFLbH/aurora16.jpg Filter out all Google apps
https://i.postimg.cc/PrvDyT8Y/aurora03.jpg Spoof hardware & geolocation
https://i.postimg.cc/SQ2DS1wd/aurora18.jpg Spoof any device & OS version
https://i.postimg.cc/V6tyDpNd/aurora17.jpg Do NOT delete APK postinstall
https://i.postimg.cc/7PdGfdQ6/aurora08.jpg Save search filter settings

Such that the files are saved from Android directly to a drive on Windows.
https://i.postimg.cc/cJK9rbjn/update03.jpg APKs saved into Windows drive
https://i.postimg.cc/Y0wQWVJn/update08.jpg Android system on Windows Although for some reason, moving from Android 11 to 12 removed hundreds!
https://i.postimg.cc/FHJ16nvF/update01.jpg Android 11->12 screwed up!
https://i.postimg.cc/0QN3z96f/update13.jpg Hundreds of apps are gone.

Where a few hundred apps did NOT get deleted (but even Zoom disappeared)
https://i.postimg.cc/15m2YzgR/update15.jpg Where did they go?
https://i.postimg.cc/brtpv9T1/update17.jpg Even Zoom disappeared!
https://i.postimg.cc/fy7P3bJR/update18.jpg Updates in 3 locations

Luckily Android is tied directly to Windows so you can slide them all back.
https://i.postimg.cc/N0G1TXcZ/scrcpy01.jpg Mirror Android on any PC
https://i.postimg.cc/hjkVFyqJ/scrcpy07.jpg Android mnt as drive letter
https://i.postimg.cc/9FJMKYch/scrcpy21.jpg Windows Drive: === Android
https://i.postimg.cc/c4Wq5x9j/scrcpy22.jpg Vysor IP address option

Even iOS is tied directly to Windows using the same tools Android does.
https://i.postimg.cc/QNwjsCDM/vysor01.jpg Vysor Android/iOS PC mirror

Where the Windows mouse & keyboard work over Wi-Fi to the Android phone.
https://i.postimg.cc/mrz6gJpC/scrcpy23.jpg Android SMS/MMS on Window

And you can just drag and drop an APK from Windows to Android over Wi-Fi.
https://i.postimg.cc/wvsbcNBz/scrcpy05.jpg Drag APK from Windows

So it's not hard to recover even with hundreds of apps gone AWOL.

But what you see here are the adfree hardware device info apps I suggest:
 *DevCheck Hardware and System Info* by flar2
 *Inware* by evowizz
 *Device Info HW* by Andrey Efremov


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: sms
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 17:07 UTC
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Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
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On 5/6/2022 7:53 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 6 May 2022 07:57:08 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

Interesting to see it born out in practice, but it is a known fact. Fast
charging heats up the battery and heat damages the battery, therefore fast
charging will reduce the battery life.

Nope, or at least not what I've seen with my testing (and screwing
around).  A few decades ago, I decided that NiCd cells would only
become warm if over charged past 100%.  Well, I was off a little but
my thermocouple tests showed that up to about 75% of full charge, I
could literally charge the NiCd cell at whatever sky high rate I found
amusing.  The problem was that if I missed and went over about 85% of
full charge at the ridiculous rates I was using, the cell would
generate enough gas and heat to blow the end out and generally make a
mess.

Ni-cad cells are less efficient when slow-charged (see https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-407-charging-nickel-cadmium

NiMH cells are best charged using the "step-differential" method (see
https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-408-charging-nickel-metal-hydride

It seems like many people want to believe that slow-charging batteries has some benefit in longevity and/or capacity, so you see statements like "it is a known fact...," even when the statements are really not true.

If the choice is only between a) "fast charge at high-current to 100% capacity" versus b) slow-charge at low current to 100% capacity" then yes, slow charging is better, but that's not how modern smart phones, or modern electric vehicles, with lithium-based batteries actually are charged.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
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Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
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In article <t53kkp$kjq$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

Ni-cad cells are less efficient when slow-charged (see

your link states that the charge efficiency is better at faster rates,
not battery health. you're moving the goalposts, as usual.

also, nicad isn't used in consumer products anymore, nor are the
batteries even available (other than special purpose).

NiMH cells are best charged using the "step-differential" method (see

step-differential is proof that fast charging can be a problem,
otherwise it wouldn't step down when it reaches a certain threshold.

although nimh is still used in some devices, it's nowhere near as
common as lithium ion, the topic of the thread.

you're grasping at straws.

It seems like many people want to believe that slow-charging batteries
has some benefit in longevity and/or capacity, so you see statements
like "it is a known fact...," even when the statements are really not true.

it seems like you are trolling again.

If the choice is only between a) "fast charge at high-current to 100%
capacity" versus b) slow-charge at low current to 100% capacity" then
yes, slow charging is better, but that's not how modern smart phones, or
modern electric vehicles, with lithium-based batteries actually are charged.

straw man.


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