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tech / sci.electronics.repair / Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times

SubjectAuthor
* Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Peter W.
|`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Peter W.
+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
|+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
|`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -ohg...@gmail.com
+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -John McGaw
|+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -AJL
||`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
|`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequentlyChris
 |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -John McGaw
 || +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |   `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |    `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |     +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |     `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |      +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |      `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || |       `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Peter W.
 || |        `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -ohg...@gmail.com
 || `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 ||+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 ||+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 || `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Wade Garrett
 ||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 ||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Wade Garrett
 ||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 ||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 ||  `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 ||+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 |||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 ||| `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 |||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 |||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 |||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reClifford Heath
 |||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 |||  `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 ||+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 |||`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -AJL
 || ||+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Phil Allison
 || ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || || +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -AJL
 || || `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequentlyChris
 || ||  +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || ||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || ||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking remike
 || ||  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Tim R
 || ||   `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -ohg...@gmail.com
 || |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || ||+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || ||`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Phil Allison
 || |+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Bob F
 || | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |   `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |    +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |    `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |     +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |     `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |      `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |       `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | | +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | | +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || |        | | | |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | |   +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |   |+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |   |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -ohg...@gmail.com
 || |        | | |   +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |   `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |    +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |    +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |    |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |    | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -ohg...@gmail.com
 || |        | | |    |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |    |   `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -ohg...@gmail.com
 || |        | | |    `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | |     +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |     |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |     `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || |        | | `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Bob F
 || |        | `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || |        `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli

Pages:123456
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Andy Burnelli
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 04:31 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
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From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 05:31:29 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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Jeff Liebermann wrote:

No, it's not.  I guess I should be more specific.  I would like to
know why you find it necessary to test a LiIon cell in a charge range
of zero to 20%, where literally every recommendation by the
manufacturers declare that to be an RBI (really bad idea)? 

I _know_ it's a really bad idea, which is _why_ I want to see what happens. I got a handful of these phones for free, so I have _plenty_ to work with.
It's just a phone. Phones are a dime a dozen. They're a commodity.

This is a Samsung Galaxy A32-5G, which, even if I paid for it, is cheap.

People do drop tests all the time, don't they?
That's a really bad idea too. :)

Looks that
specs for any BMS (battery management system) found inside most LiIon
battery packs.  There is a feature that literally disconnects the cell
if the terminal voltage goes below some value which usually works out
to about 20% charge.  Maybe this will help you understand the problem
you're creating for yourself:
"Lithium Ion Cell Operating Window"
https://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm
Notice that the "operating area" is between 20% and 90% SOC.

I designed microcontroller-based batter chargers as experimental tools back
in the 80's in graduate school but it has been a long time since then.

I've probably forgotten more than I learned by then, but my main point is
that I consider all smartphones merely a tool to play with to learn about.

If you don't do destructive testing, you won't learn as much as if you do.
(As an aside, you should see the destructive testing I did on the iPad!)

I take risks with the mobile devices all the time in order to learn more.

For example, I recently figured out a way to change my supposedly permanent
supposedly unique Google-supplied GSF ID, which may be the reason that
the Android 11 to Android 12 update on my Samsung deleted hundreds of apps.
 *Have you ever tried to CHANGE your unique GSF ID on your Android device?*
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Ixl2uMSLADc

So it's not just me who is curious what happens in the real world.

Yes, but you are not the entire real world.  Your currently
undisclosed operating criteria is not the same as every user and
certainly not the same as the cell phone manufacturer.  The
manufacturer wants big numbers because big number sell phones.
Whatever it takes to produce big numbers balanced by cost and safety
issues.  Big numbers are rather useless if the phone catches fire in
the owners pocket.  So, the game of battery specmanship degenerates
into squeezing as many watt-hours out of the battery as possible by
any means deemed economical (and maybe reliable).  Do it wrong, and
you have a situation like Apple, where the phone had to be slowed down
to produce a reasonable runtime as the battery aged.  At that point,
the user gets involved and tries to squeeze out as much power as
possible.  However, they can't because the manufacturer has already
done that with a complexicated BMS algorithm.  So the user looks to
see what can be gained by breaking the safety rules.  Good luck.  If
you are actually able to run the phone at extremely low SOC, then the
manufacturer has screwed up and is selling an unsafe phone, battery,
or both.  What phone and battery are you using and I'll be sure to
blacklist it.

It's the Samsung Galaxy A32-5G and it's the T-Mobile model SM A326U.

You'll see some of my experiments on the XDA Developers' forum:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/f/samsung-galaxy-a32-5g.12145/

I've always been curious about the best way to do almost any thing.
And destructive testing is a fantastic way to figure out what really
happens in the real world under real world conditions, even as you can't
hope to run a "consumers report" style full-fledged scientific
investigation with basic home equipment.

Please note my domain name, LearnByDestroying.com.  The intent is
slightly different from yours.  It's my contention that one does not
understand how something works without first breaking it, and
subsequently fixing it.  Destructive testing, without subsequent
understanding (and enlightenment) is useless.

Like you appear to do, I try to learn why things fail when they fail.

For my BMW, a lot of parts break, where I take them apart to find what
caused the failure, whether that's the FSU or the expansion tank.

You can't put that stuff back together, although I did try to reseat the
myriad "angel hair" wires inside the ABS control module, which are just
impossible to do without specialized machines.

Having said that, my cars are decades old where I fix everything I can,
even to the point of mounting and balancing my own tires at home, so if I
_can_ fix it after taking it apart, I will fix it after taking it apart.
https://i.postimg.cc/zvvyL2tq/mount24.jpg Analyze the wear  https://i.postimg.cc/X7hcV3ps/mount26.jpg Keep close track of wear
https://i.postimg.cc/63Kc80x9/mount29.jpg Watch wear over time
https://i.postimg.cc/wTf1xnzJ/mount36.jpg Inspect root causes
https://i.postimg.cc/g004XCLW/mount37.jpg Run experiments
https://i.postimg.cc/g004XCLW/mount37.jpg Gather more data
https://i.postimg.cc/G3HWPtQg/mount39.jpg Test your assumptions
https://i.postimg.cc/8zVxVHVx/mount40.jpg ID engineering principles
https://i.postimg.cc/YqHVb5gY/mount33.jpg Fix root cause
https://i.postimg.cc/DwnjgJY3/mount08.jpg Buy a new tire
https://i.postimg.cc/FKfFwJ25/mount48.jpg Break the bead
https://i.postimg.cc/g004XCLW/mount37.jpg Replace the valve
https://i.postimg.cc/WzZW9MvT/mount07.jpg Mount the tire
https://i.postimg.cc/28JK2bFB/mount58.jpg Balance the wheel
https://i.postimg.cc/0NGXktgp/mount59.jpg Recycle the carcass

Bear in mind it's difficult to find out why some wear patterns happen
simply because they are on perfectly well aligned vehicles sometimes.
https://www.quora.com/When-turning-I-see-there-is-a-plus-camber-in-a-vehicle-Why

Still... I try to learn... and destructive testing is part of learning.

It's a tiny part but admittedly the fun part.  It's lots of fun to
blow things up.  It's less fun, but more educational to understand how
the device you just destroyed functions.  When you destroy something
(like your phone battery), do you take or record measurements?  Do you
record a video for an instant replay?  Have you worked out in advance
what you expect to happen?  Do you look for anomalies?  Do you own a
data logger?  How would blowing up a cell phone battery demonstrate
anything if you don't know at what voltage (or SOC) and temperature it
blew up?  Did you put a plastic bag over the phone to capture any
gasses (and flying glass) produced?  Do you have a new battery or
phone available for comparisons?  Without these, all you've "learned"
is how to blow up a battery or phone.

I can't disagree with anything you've said as I run experiments all day
every day, some of which are detailed (like those tire experiments) and
others aren't as detailed (as my phone battery experiments are).

When I was a kid, my dad kept a box of old "stuff" for me to take apart.

Hint:  I still act like I'm kid.  I even take things apart BEFORE I
try operating them.

The one thing really convenient about destructive autopsies is you don't
have to put anything back together. You just put it in the recycling bin.

Why does anyone run any experiment?

Usually because they are suspicious of the established theories of
operation and have reason to suspect that parts of the theories are
wrong or badly understood.

Notice the tire experiments above where there is precious little
information on the Internet why all the cars that are perfectly aligned in
any given twisty road area wear the tires the exact same abnormal way.

Take a look at the Scotty Kilmer video below, and note particularly that
the photos I've been posting (which I've posted for years) are the _same_
as in Scotty Kilmer's videos (just look and you'll recognize my pictures!).

Click here to read the complete article
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Peter W.
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.repair
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 11:43 UTC
References: 1 2
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Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
From: peterwie...@gmail.com (Peter W.)
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Fifty-two (52) replies in pursuit of idiocy.  Jimmy Neutron strikes again! 


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: ohg...@gmail.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.repair
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 13:43 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
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Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
From: ohge...@gmail.com (ohg...@gmail.com)
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On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 12:31:17 AM UTC-4, Andy Burnelli wrote:


Take a look at the Scotty Kilmer video below...


Kilmer is a backyard mechanic at best who doesn't know any more about, well, *anything* than any one else.  I wouldn't let this guy change the oil on a car.



Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: sms
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
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Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 14:02 UTC
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On 5/6/2022 10:07 AM, sms wrote:

<snip>

If the choice is only between a) "fast charge at high-current to 100% capacity" versus b) slow-charge at low current to 100% capacity" then yes, slow charging is better, but that's not how modern smart phones, or modern electric vehicles, with lithium-based batteries actually are charged.

One other thing, which could be good or bad depending on your point of view, is that for iPhones that are capable of fast charging, if you turn the phone off _after_ the phone is plugged into a USB-C PC charger. then the charge rate goes down (on the iPhone, if the phone is off and a charger is plugged in then the phone automatically turns on so you must turn it off _after_ the charger is plugged in).

On my iPhone, with the phone on the battery begins charging at around 18W (9V@2a) then falls to about 10W (9V@1.15A) as the battery charges; with the phone off, it charges at about 10W (5.1V@2A) then falls to about 5.5W (5.1@1.08A).

With a USB-C PD charger, it takes _longer_ to charge an iPhone is the power is off since the voltage never goes above the nominal 5V, yet current is always limited to a nominal 2A. This is because the PMIC inside the iPhone can't negotiate the USB-C PD charge rate when the phone is off. On an Android phone, at least phones with Qualcomm Snapdragon chipsets, QC charge rates are unaffected by the phone being on or off.

Also, on the iPhone, unlike on Android devices, there is no indication as to whether or not the phone is fast charging. Someone could be using a junky, USB-C to Lightning cable, that they don't realize does not support fast charging, but think that their phone is fast charging. You need to plug in a USB-C to USB-C power meter between the USB-C PD charger and the iPhone to see the charge rate.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 14:18 UTC
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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Sat, 07 May 2022 10:18:53 -0400
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In article <t55u4r$8u3$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

Also, on the iPhone, unlike on Android devices, there is no indication
as to whether or not the phone is fast charging. Someone could be using
a junky, USB-C to Lightning cable, that they don't realize does not
support fast charging, but think that their phone is fast charging.

that is false. it's very easy to tell if it's fast charging.

You
need to plug in a USB-C to USB-C power meter between the USB-C PD
charger and the iPhone to see the charge rate.

there is no such need.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Chris
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 14:43 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ithink...@gmail.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently
- checking re-charge times
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 14:43:34 -0000 (UTC)
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Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

Drivel:
One mouse, two mice.
One house, two hice?

An upper class english accent pronounces a house as "hice". English is a
bastard language with so many accents and vernaculars that it's pointless
arguing over what is "correct".


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 14:58 UTC
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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
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In article <t560il$r56$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

Drivel:
One mouse, two mice.

mouses is an acceptable plural when referring to a computer mouse. not
applicable to the rodent.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mouse
  plural also mouses : a small mobile manual device that controls
  movement of the cursor and selection of functions on a computer
  display

One house, two hice?

An upper class english accent pronounces a house as "hice". English is a
bastard language with so many accents and vernaculars that it's pointless
arguing over what is "correct".

true.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: sms
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 15:01 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
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From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
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On 5/7/2022 7:43 AM, Chris wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

Drivel:
One mouse, two mice.
One house, two hice?

An upper class english accent pronounces a house as "hice". English is a
bastard language with so many accents and vernaculars that it's pointless
arguing over what is "correct".

I have two close friends that moved from England to California. After a couple of decades in the U.S. they learned to speak proper English, but they occasionally slipped up.

When they first moved to the U.S. there were some embarrassing/amusing incidents, one involving trying to buy pencil erasers at Walgreen's, and one involving the item used for washing pots and pans, while on a backpacking trip.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Tim R
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.repair
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 15:13 UTC
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Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
From: timothy4...@gmail.com (Tim R)
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Long thread, I may have missed this above, but:

Laptops are notorious for having bricked batteries.  Sometimes replacement is cheap, sometimes not. 

Battery life is supposedly longest when charge is maintained between 20% and 80%.  The way most of us use a laptop is to leave it plugged in all the time and treat it like a desktop.  I have a couple we use that way where I've removed the battery after it bricked.  Anyway, the most common use of a laptop seems to be inherently hard on the battery.  My millennial daughter almost never has hers plugged in while in use though. 

I've read that with modern auto battery chemistry, every time you run it down flat you lose one half life.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: ohg...@gmail.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.repair
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Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
From: ohge...@gmail.com (ohg...@gmail.com)
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On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:13:27 AM UTC-4, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:


I've read that with modern auto battery chemistry, every time you run it down flat you lose one half life.

If you're talking about lead acid car batteries, then running them way down even just a couple of times is very bad for them.  While discharged, they begin to sulfate almost immediately.  Even a fairly new battery can be easily weakened severely by leaving it discharged for a fairly short amount of time.

EV batteries are much more tolerant of discharge than lead acid batteries are, but of course are not immune.  There are plenty of published tests when determining ultimate range of EVs where they are run to zero.  In the short term at least, they don't seem to suffer any indicated range loss. I don't know if any testing has been done of running an EV to zero and leaving it like that for 6 months. I've read that LiPo cells are even better at tolerating extreme discharging and charging at the cost of some capacity.  Some Teslas are being shipped with LiPo battery packs.

When my android phone crapped out, my buddy gave me one that belonged to his deceased daughter.  The phone was only about 6 months old when she passed, and it was completely discharged for two years when I got it.  I've been using it about a year now and doesn't show any sign of battery life issues.  Back when I was doing camcorder repairs, batteries that were new one Christmas were shot the next after sitting for a year without being charged.





Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: sms
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 17:12 UTC
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From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
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On 5/7/2022 7:02 AM, sms wrote:
On 5/6/2022 10:07 AM, sms wrote:

<snip>

If the choice is only between a) "fast charge at high-current to 100% capacity" versus b) slow-charge at low current to 100% capacity" then yes, slow charging is better, but that's not how modern smart phones, or modern electric vehicles, with lithium-based batteries actually are charged.

One other thing, which could be good or bad depending on your point of view, is that for iPhones that are capable of fast charging, if you turn the phone off _after_ the phone is plugged into a USB-C PC charger.

Oops, USB-C PD, not USB-C PC.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: mike
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 19:29 UTC
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From: thi...@address.is.invalid (mike)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
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On 07-05-2022 20:31 sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

I have two close friends that moved from England to California. After a couple of decades in the U.S. they learned to speak proper English, but they occasionally slipped up.

When they first moved to the U.S. there were some embarrassing/amusing incidents, one involving trying to buy pencil erasers at Walgreen's, and one involving the item used for washing pots and pans, while on a backpacking trip.

When a person makes a mistake like that, if you dislike them, it's
annoying, but if you like them, it's cute.

On the other hand, if you prefer speed x while driving and someone zooms by
at 2 x, they're an idiot but someone in front of you at 1/2 x is a jerk.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Bob F
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 20:02 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 13:02:08 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 5/6/2022 2:53 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:07:35 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

On 5/6/2022 7:53 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 6 May 2022 07:57:08 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

Interesting to see it born out in practice, but it is a known fact. Fast
charging heats up the battery and heat damages the battery, therefore fast
charging will reduce the battery life.

Nope, or at least not what I've seen with my testing (and screwing
around).  A few decades ago, I decided that NiCd cells would only
become warm if over charged past 100%.  Well, I was off a little but
my thermocouple tests showed that up to about 75% of full charge, I
could literally charge the NiCd cell at whatever sky high rate I found
amusing.  The problem was that if I missed and went over about 85% of
full charge at the ridiculous rates I was using, the cell would
generate enough gas and heat to blow the end out and generally make a
mess.

Ni-cad cells are less efficient when slow-charged (see
https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-407-charging-nickel-cadmium

"Where does it say that on the URL you mentioned?  All I find is:
To achieve a reliable voltage signature, the charge rate must be 0.5C
and higher. Slower charging produces a less defined voltage drop,
especially if the cells are mismatched in which case each cell reaches
full charge at a different time point."
In other words, the dip in terminal voltage that defines EOC
(end-of-charge) is less obvious for a slow charge than for a faster
charge.  If the charge controller misses this dip, it could easily
overcharge the NiCd battery and ruin it.  There's nothing in there
about "efficiency".


"Fast charging improves the charge efficiency. At 1C charge rate, the efficiency of a standard NiCd is 91 percent and the charge time is about an hour (66 minutes at 91 percent). On a slow charger, the efficiency drops to 71 percent, prolonging the charge time to about 14 hours at 0.1C.

During the first 70 percent of charge, the efficiency of a NiCd is close to 100 percent. The battery absorbs almost all energy and the pack remains cool. NiCd batteries designed for fast charging can be charged with currents that are several times the C-rating without extensive heat buildup. In fact, NiCd is the only battery that can be ultra-fast charged with minimal stress. Cells made for ultra-fast charging can be charged to 70 percent in minutes."

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-407-charging-nickel-cadmium


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 11:16 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!news.freedyn.de!speedkom.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 13:16:57 +0200
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On 2022-05-07 02:39, John McGaw wrote:
On 5/6/2022 5:14 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
snip...
Interesting to see it born out in practice, but it is a known fact. Fast
charging heats up the battery and heat damages the battery, therefore fast
charging will reduce the battery life.

It would be nice if when pluging the charger the phone asked whether we want a fast or a slow charge.



Actually, the "adaptive charging" option seems to do that but without asking. Place the phone on the wireless stand after the phone knows that it is "sleepy time" and it will automatically restrict the charge rate to what is needed to have 100% at the next alarm time. It has seemed to work fine for me on my Pixel 6 Pro, anyway. Of course you have to switch the option on in settings before it will know to do that. I'm guessing that this will work with plugged-in charging but I have never really tried and I almost never used wired charging except when in the car on a long road trip.


Yes, my phone does say it will end charging by alarm time.

--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 11:21 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!news.freedyn.de!speedkom.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 13:21:22 +0200
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On 2022-05-07 03:12, nospam wrote:
In article <t54ghq$vhp$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

If someone really wants to charge as slow as possible, with a wired
charger, you can use a data blocker and the charger will be unable to
communicate with the phone and will default to the lowest charge rate,

which will be extremely slow and might even be insufficient to overcome
idle demands of the device because it will be 5V@100ma, or 1/2 watt,
assuming it works at all, since such adapters are non-compliant with
the usb spec.

a better and more practical solution is use a 5w/1a charger, which most
people have.

Actually, my night charger does so at "1 load unit", and does the job just fine.

--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 11:29 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!news.freedyn.de!speedkom.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 13:29:20 +0200
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On 2022-05-06 19:07, sms wrote:
On 5/6/2022 7:53 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 6 May 2022 07:57:08 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

Interesting to see it born out in practice, but it is a known fact. Fast
charging heats up the battery and heat damages the battery, therefore fast
charging will reduce the battery life.

Nope, or at least not what I've seen with my testing (and screwing
around).  A few decades ago, I decided that NiCd cells would only
become warm if over charged past 100%.  Well, I was off a little but
my thermocouple tests showed that up to about 75% of full charge, I
could literally charge the NiCd cell at whatever sky high rate I found
amusing.  The problem was that if I missed and went over about 85% of
full charge at the ridiculous rates I was using, the cell would
generate enough gas and heat to blow the end out and generally make a
mess.

Ni-cad cells are less efficient when slow-charged (see https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-407-charging-nickel-cadmium

NiMH cells are best charged using the "step-differential" method (see
https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-408-charging-nickel-metal-hydride It seems like many people want to believe that slow-charging batteries has some benefit in longevity and/or capacity, so you see statements like "it is a known fact...," even when the statements are really not true.

Well, I have been slow charging my previous phone during 4 years, and battery life is almost the same as when I bought it. There was a decrease or impact the first year or two, then none.



If the choice is only between a) "fast charge at high-current to 100% capacity" versus b) slow-charge at low current to 100% capacity" then yes, slow charging is better, but that's not how modern smart phones, or modern electric vehicles, with lithium-based batteries actually are charged.


--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: sms
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 13:52 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 06:52:24 -0700
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On 5/8/2022 4:21 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-05-07 03:12, nospam wrote:
In article <t54ghq$vhp$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

If someone really wants to charge as slow as possible, with a wired
charger, you can use a data blocker and the charger will be unable to
communicate with the phone and will default to the lowest charge rate,

which will be extremely slow and might even be insufficient to overcome
idle demands of the device because it will be 5V@100ma, or 1/2 watt,
assuming it works at all, since such adapters are non-compliant with
the usb spec.

a better and more practical solution is use a 5w/1a charger, which most
people have.

Actually, my night charger does so at "1 load unit", and does the job just fine.

nospam is wrong of course™.

You can charge at the very low rate by not letting the charger see the resistors on the data pins.

There's no upside to charging at 100mA, just as there is no upside to charging at 500mA or 1A, versus higher rate charging, but not everything anyone does is necessarily based on actual data. You still have people doing 3000 mile oil changes on new cars, not because they are necessary, but because it makes them feel good.



Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 14:20 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 10:20:14 -0400
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In article <t58hup$esn$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:


You can charge at the very low rate by not letting the charger see the
resistors on the data pins.

by not seeing the resistors (or actual negotiation), the 'very low
rate' is 100ma, as per the usb spec, which is insufficient to charge a
phone battery.

some devices will even say not charging:
https://cdn-60c35131c1ac185aa47dd21e.closte.com//wp-content/uploads/201
8/04/iPad-Not-Charging-Message-300x136.png>

There's no upside to charging at 100mA,

because it's too low to actually do anything.

just as there is no upside to
charging at 500mA or 1A, versus higher rate charging,

yes there is. the upside for charging at 500ma-1a versus faster rates
is longer battery life.

but not everything
anyone does is necessarily based on actual data.

you being the prime example of that.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 11:07 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 13:07:14 +0200
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On 2022-05-08 16:20, nospam wrote:
In article <t58hup$esn$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:


You can charge at the very low rate by not letting the charger see the
resistors on the data pins.

by not seeing the resistors (or actual negotiation), the 'very low
rate' is 100ma, as per the usb spec, which is insufficient to charge a
phone battery.

Don't be that absolute. When you do that, you deserve getting the «nospam is wrong of course™» response.

Some phones may not charge at that rate, others do.

I have one such cable with just two wires, and all of my devices (with micro-usb connectors) can charge with it, except an old Samsung Galaxy Mini 2 phone. That cable came with a BT headphone, probably with the purpose of forcing slow, low rate, charging.

I have a charger with eight outputs. 2 of them are "1 load unit", same as an old computer. They can charge all my phones, tablets, headsets, cameras, etc. All of those with USB connection, that is. Except one, that old Samsung phone.

So I intentionally use those two outputs to charge my phone while I sleep, or other devices that I'm likely to forget I left charging.

I have been doing that to my previous phone for four years, the battery is just fine.



some devices will even say not charging:
https://cdn-60c35131c1ac185aa47dd21e.closte.com//wp-content/uploads/201
8/04/iPad-Not-Charging-Message-300x136.png>

Ah, an iPad. :-P

....

--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 11:13 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 13:13:08 +0200
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On 2022-05-07 22:02, Bob F wrote:
On 5/6/2022 2:53 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:07:35 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

....

During the first 70 percent of charge, the efficiency of a NiCd is close to 100 percent. The battery absorbs almost all energy and the pack remains cool. NiCd batteries designed for fast charging can be charged with currents that are several times the C-rating without extensive heat buildup. In fact, NiCd is the only battery that can be ultra-fast charged with minimal stress.

Lead-acid could be fast charged. They do that some times with cars on garages. It is dangerous, the battery must be disconnected from the car first, or the electronics can be destroyed (overvoltage). Happened to me.

Cells made for ultra-fast charging can be charged to 70 percent in minutes."

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-407-charging-nickel-cadmium


--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 11:51 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 07:51:19 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article <4j9nki-1mr.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


Lead-acid could be fast charged.

it can, but also reduces the life of the battery, depending on how fast
it is.

They do that some times with cars on
garages.

they do, because they want to move onto the next customer.

It is dangerous,

only if improperly done.

the battery must be disconnected from the car
first, or the electronics can be destroyed (overvoltage). Happened to me.

the battery doesn't need to be disconnected.

modern car battery chargers initially supply a constant current until
the battery voltage rises to ~14.4v (bulk charge), at which point it
switches to constant voltage to top it off (absorption charge) until
the current draw is minimal, and then switches to trickle charging (aka
float).

when the vehicle is running, the voltage is ~13.8v with a fully charged
battery (higher if it's not).

chargers that do not limit voltage and/or current can destroy all sorts
of things, including the battery. do not use.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
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In article <289nki-7dr.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

You can charge at the very low rate by not letting the charger see the
resistors on the data pins.

by not seeing the resistors (or actual negotiation), the 'very low
rate' is 100ma, as per the usb spec, which is insufficient to charge a
phone battery.

Don't be that absolute. When you do that, you deserve getting the
«nospam is wrong of course» response.

the usb spec is absolute, as are other specs.

the usb spec *requires* that a device initially source 100ma, with
higher rates only after negotiation. originally, that required a
request, but that was not practical for a simple charger, which is why
resistors were added to the spec.

if you disagree, take it up with the usb consortium.

Some phones may not charge at that rate, others do.

the rate is defined by the usb spec.

non-compliant devices do exist, however, they should be avoided. there
is no guarantee what they will do.

compliance not only guarantees expected functionality and compatibility
between manufacturers, but also a level of safety.

I have one such cable with just two wires, and all of my devices (with
micro-usb connectors) can charge with it, except an old Samsung Galaxy
Mini 2 phone. That cable came with a BT headphone, probably with the
purpose of forcing slow, low rate, charging.

any cable with only two wires is non-compliant with the usb spec, and
if it came with a bt headphone, then that too is non-compliant.

you have a lot of non-compliant devices. that's unfortunate.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: sms
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 16:10 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
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From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 09:10:17 -0700
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On 5/9/2022 4:07 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-05-08 16:20, nospam wrote:
In article <t58hup$esn$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:


You can charge at the very low rate by not letting the charger see the
resistors on the data pins.

by not seeing the resistors (or actual negotiation), the 'very low
rate' is 100ma, as per the usb spec, which is insufficient to charge a
phone battery.

Don't be that absolute. When you do that, you deserve getting the «nospam is wrong of course™» response.

Some phones may not charge at that rate, others do.

I have one such cable with just two wires, and all of my devices (with micro-usb connectors) can charge with it, except an old Samsung Galaxy Mini 2 phone. That cable came with a BT headphone, probably with the purpose of forcing slow, low rate, charging.

I have a charger with eight outputs. 2 of them are "1 load unit", same as an old computer. They can charge all my phones, tablets, headsets, cameras, etc. All of those with USB connection, that is. Except one, that old Samsung phone.

So I intentionally use those two outputs to charge my phone while I sleep, or other devices that I'm likely to forget I left charging.

I have been doing that to my previous phone for four years, the battery is just fine.

nospam is wrong of course™

You can charge a phone, albeit very slowly, at 100mA.

There's no good reason to do this, but someone else was concerned that when you plug a phone into a fast charger there is no way to force it charge at a lower rate. For an iPhone there is two ways a) turn off the phone, b) use a power-only USB cable or a device that prevents the data lines from being seen.



Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 17:03 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 19:03:12 +0200
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On 2022-05-09 13:51, nospam wrote:
In article <4j9nki-1mr.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


Lead-acid could be fast charged.

it can, but also reduces the life of the battery, depending on how fast
it is.

They do that some times with cars on
garages.

they do, because they want to move onto the next customer.

It is dangerous,

only if improperly done.

the battery must be disconnected from the car
first, or the electronics can be destroyed (overvoltage). Happened to me.

the battery doesn't need to be disconnected.

nospam, don't talk of things you don't understand

Fast charging a lead acid battery means supplying it with a high voltage, maybe 20 or 30 volts, much more than what the battery can absorb. If the car is not disconnected, that voltage reaches the car itself.

What you say now is trash:


modern car battery chargers initially supply a constant current until
the battery voltage rises to ~14.4v (bulk charge), at which point it
switches to constant voltage to top it off (absorption charge) until
the current draw is minimal, and then switches to trickle charging (aka
float).

when the vehicle is running, the voltage is ~13.8v with a fully charged
battery (higher if it's not).

chargers that do not limit voltage and/or current can destroy all sorts
of things, including the battery. do not use.


--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 17:42 UTC
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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
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In article <t5bedb$8fo$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

You can charge a phone, albeit very slowly, at 100mA.

extremely slowly (as in days), and it needs to be powered off because
idle power consumption is higher than 100ma.

if it's powered on, it won't actually charge, which is what causes the
no charging indicator to be shown on the display. link in another post.

There's no good reason to do this, but someone else was concerned that
when you plug a phone into a fast charger there is no way to force it
charge at a lower rate. For an iPhone there is two ways a) turn off the
phone,

except that the phone will turn on when connected to a charger (android
partly boots, iphone fully boots) and then will charge at whatever rate
the charger supports and negotiates with the device.

b) use a power-only USB cable or a device that prevents the data
lines from being seen.

that won't work. see above.

the correct way to charge at a slow rate is use a 2.5w (500ma) or 5w
charger (1a).


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