The helper bars helped a lot in getting up and sitting down on the
Catrike. I managed to find a useful place to mount them and maintain
my policy of keeping the phone, gun, and computer within sight and
easy reach, keeping adequit channels for my legs, and not allowing
anything to extend out beyond the wheels. I also have to keep the
mirrors in a useful spot. Try looking behind you when you're reclined
in your lazy-boy. I've installed a bottle cage above the gun for days
when I need to remove my shirt (today) and don't want to put the soggy
wet thing in with anything else. My wife says my Catrike looks like
it has a cockpit. It reminds of my old Trimph Spitfire race car. all
business and no fluff.

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:43:54 -0400, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>The helper bars helped a lot in getting up and sitting down on the
>Catrike.

Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a helper bar?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:32:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:43:54 -0400, Catrike Rider
><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>The helper bars helped a lot in getting up and sitting down on the
>>Catrike.
>
>Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a helper bar?

I coined a term that describes a small bar end bar that I attached to
my Catrike's handlebars that I could grab on to to "help" me get on an
off my Catrike.

Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:32:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:43:54 -0400, Catrike Rider
>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>>> The helper bars helped a lot in getting up and sitting down on the
>>> Catrike.
>>
>> Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a helper bar?
>
> I coined a term that describes a small bar end bar that I attached to
> my Catrike's handlebars that I could grab on to to "help" me get on an
> off my Catrike.
>

I’m assuming some bar ends like was the thing for MTBing in the 90’s

Roger Merriman

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 10:08:41 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:32:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:43:54 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The helper bars helped a lot in getting up and sitting down on the
>>>> Catrike.
>>>
>>> Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a helper bar?
>>
>> I coined a term that describes a small bar end bar that I attached to
>> my Catrike's handlebars that I could grab on to to "help" me get on an
>> off my Catrike.
>>
>
>I’m assuming some bar ends like was the thing for MTBing in the 90’s
>
>Roger Merriman

This is what I installed

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B097GV2L2H?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

My handlebars are very differnt from two wheeler handlebars. I have
vertical bars coming up from the bars going straight back from each
headset, which are just above the front front wheel axels. Originally,
everything, grips, brakes, shifters, mirrors, ets was installed those
uprights. I've extended mine higher and further forward and my grips
are horizontal. The "helper bars" are mounted horizontally, just below
the grips, and angle at about 30 degrees to the back.

There are several manufactured "assists" for trikes, but this one, and
all the others are hideous and unacceptable.

https://www.utahtrikes.com/PROD-11618467.html

As I mentioned before, the problem gettin on and off the Catrike is
because you can't get your feet under you. I've lowered my Catrike's
seat about three inches which locates the the seat's lumbar curve
better on my back. It also lowers the center of gravity and creates a
"bucket seat" effect.

Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 10:08:41 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:32:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:43:54 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The helper bars helped a lot in getting up and sitting down on the
>>>>> Catrike.
>>>>
>>>> Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a helper bar?
>>>
>>> I coined a term that describes a small bar end bar that I attached to
>>> my Catrike's handlebars that I could grab on to to "help" me get on an
>>> off my Catrike.
>>>
>>
>> I’m assuming some bar ends like was the thing for MTBing in the 90’s
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
>
> This is what I installed
>
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B097GV2L2H?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Which is what I assumed, mate called them tree catchers! As they do have
that ability more so than just wide bars as they can hook vegetation!
>
> My handlebars are very differnt from two wheeler handlebars. I have
> vertical bars coming up from the bars going straight back from each
> headset, which are just above the front front wheel axels. Originally,
> everything, grips, brakes, shifters, mirrors, ets was installed those
> uprights. I've extended mine higher and further forward and my grips
> are horizontal. The "helper bars" are mounted horizontally, just below
> the grips, and angle at about 30 degrees to the back.

>
> There are several manufactured "assists" for trikes, but this one, and
> all the others are hideous and unacceptable.
>
> https://www.utahtrikes.com/PROD-11618467.html
>
> As I mentioned before, the problem gettin on and off the Catrike is
> because you can't get your feet under you. I've lowered my Catrike's
> seat about three inches which locates the the seat's lumbar curve
> better on my back. It also lowers the center of gravity and creates a
> "bucket seat" effect.
>
Looks like it’s a common enough that are number of solutions, I have used a
recumbent though was much higher twin one used by local charity for
disabled cycling. Generally though not limited to folks with learning
disability and for various reasons can’t use standard bike frames.

Have seen some of the more racy ones nr work as that has a racetrack, which
are very low and I’d assume most folks bar very young and light weight
folks would struggle to some degree!

Roger Merriman

On 4/19/2023 9:32 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:43:54 -0400, Catrike Rider
> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>> The helper bars helped a lot in getting up and sitting down on the
>> Catrike.
>
> Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a helper bar?
>

Mr Tricycle wrote recently that he added MTB bar ends:
https://contents.mediadecathlon.com/p1804809/k$dede852925509250674075b0ca660b83/3-position-long-bar-ends.jpg?&f=800x800

To give him a support for mounting/dismounting his vehicle.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 12:01:04 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 10:08:41 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:32:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:43:54 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The helper bars helped a lot in getting up and sitting down on the
>>>>>> Catrike.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a helper bar?
>>>>
>>>> I coined a term that describes a small bar end bar that I attached to
>>>> my Catrike's handlebars that I could grab on to to "help" me get on an
>>>> off my Catrike.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I?m assuming some bar ends like was the thing for MTBing in the 90?s
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>>
>> This is what I installed
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B097GV2L2H?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
>
>Which is what I assumed, mate called them tree catchers! As they do have
>that ability more so than just wide bars as they can hook vegetation!
>>
>> My handlebars are very differnt from two wheeler handlebars. I have
>> vertical bars coming up from the bars going straight back from each
>> headset, which are just above the front front wheel axels. Originally,
>> everything, grips, brakes, shifters, mirrors, ets was installed those
>> uprights. I've extended mine higher and further forward and my grips
>> are horizontal. The "helper bars" are mounted horizontally, just below
>> the grips, and angle at about 30 degrees to the back.
>
>>
>> There are several manufactured "assists" for trikes, but this one, and
>> all the others are hideous and unacceptable.
>>
>> https://www.utahtrikes.com/PROD-11618467.html
>>
>> As I mentioned before, the problem gettin on and off the Catrike is
>> because you can't get your feet under you. I've lowered my Catrike's
>> seat about three inches which locates the the seat's lumbar curve
>> better on my back. It also lowers the center of gravity and creates a
>> "bucket seat" effect.
>>
>Looks like it’s a common enough that are number of solutions, I have used a
>recumbent though was much higher twin one used by local charity for
>disabled cycling. Generally though not limited to folks with learning
>disability and for various reasons can’t use standard bike frames.
>
>Have seen some of the more racy ones nr work as that has a racetrack, which
>are very low and I’d assume most folks bar very young and light weight
>folks would struggle to some degree!
>
>Roger Merriman
>

My Catrike Expedition isn't the raciest, but like I said, the seat on
mine has been lowered to 7 inches off the ground.

https://www.catrike.com/expedition

The Catrike 700 and the Ice VTX are lighter and more reclined and are
generally considered the "raciest" of the commercially available
trikes. FWIW, both have "700" rear wheels.

On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 12:23:07 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:32:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
> >On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:43:54 -0400, Catrike Rider
> ><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >
> >>The helper bars helped a lot in getting up and sitting down on the
> >>Catrike.
> >
> >Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a helper bar?
> I coined a term that describes a small bar end bar that I attached to
> my Catrike's handlebars that I could grab on to to "help" me get on an
> off my Catrike.

Now note that you carefully explained what you meant many postings ago and this string is all about it. All Liebermann would have to do is look back and he could see for himself. Again more signs of dementia. He forgets how to use his own computer.

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 07:06:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 12:23:07?AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:32:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:43:54 -0400, Catrike Rider
>> ><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> >
>> >>The helper bars helped a lot in getting up and sitting down on the
>> >>Catrike.
>> >
>> >Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a helper bar?

>> I coined a term that describes a small bar end bar that I attached to
>> my Catrike's handlebars that I could grab on to to "help" me get on an
>> off my Catrike.

Thanks. I have a pair of those which I previously used to produce a
more upright riding position and provide a mount for dual headlights.
Neither worked for me, but I can see where they would be helpful for
dismounting from your tricycle. I believe the proper term is "bar
ends" or "handlebar ends":
"The rise and fall of bicycle bar ends"
<https://www.restoration.bike/bikes-and-parts/bicycle-bar-ends/>

>Now note that you carefully explained what you meant many postings
>ago and this string is all about it. All Liebermann would have to
>do is look back and he could see for himself. Again more signs of
>dementia. He forgets how to use his own computer.

RBT is getting approximately 150 messages per day. I don't have time
to read every message. At an average of 1 minute per message, it
would take me 2.5 hours to read a days worth of message. My replies
usually involve some research where it takes me 15 to 45 minutes to
produce a proper reply. That's too much.

Instead, I skim through the message list and sample blocks of threaded
messages. If they're all about guns or politics, I mark the entire
block as having been read. I don't recall reading a relevant message
and likely marked it read because it may have been mixed in with guns
and politics. Prior to posting my question, I searched with Google
for "bicycle helper bar", but found nothing useful. I also used
Google Groups Search to look for "helper bar" in past articles and
also found nothing:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/search?q=%22helper+bar%22>
So, I posted my question.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 4/20/2023 12:55 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 07:06:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 12:23:07?AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:32:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:43:54 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The helper bars helped a lot in getting up and sitting down on the
>>>>> Catrike.
>>>>
>>>> Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a helper bar?
>
>>> I coined a term that describes a small bar end bar that I attached to
>>> my Catrike's handlebars that I could grab on to to "help" me get on an
>>> off my Catrike.
>
> Thanks. I have a pair of those which I previously used to produce a
> more upright riding position and provide a mount for dual headlights.
> Neither worked for me, but I can see where they would be helpful for
> dismounting from your tricycle. I believe the proper term is "bar
> ends" or "handlebar ends":
> "The rise and fall of bicycle bar ends"
> <https://www.restoration.bike/bikes-and-parts/bicycle-bar-ends/>
>
>> Now note that you carefully explained what you meant many postings
>> ago and this string is all about it. All Liebermann would have to
>> do is look back and he could see for himself. Again more signs of
>> dementia. He forgets how to use his own computer.
>
> RBT is getting approximately 150 messages per day. I don't have time
> to read every message. At an average of 1 minute per message, it
> would take me 2.5 hours to read a days worth of message. My replies
> usually involve some research where it takes me 15 to 45 minutes to
> produce a proper reply. That's too much.
>
> Instead, I skim through the message list and sample blocks of threaded
> messages. If they're all about guns or politics, I mark the entire
> block as having been read. I don't recall reading a relevant message
> and likely marked it read because it may have been mixed in with guns
> and politics. Prior to posting my question, I searched with Google
> for "bicycle helper bar", but found nothing useful. I also used
> Google Groups Search to look for "helper bar" in past articles and
> also found nothing:
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/search?q=%22helper+bar%22>
> So, I posted my question.
>
>

+1

You asked a simple question without calling anyone names.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 13:20:36 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 4/20/2023 12:55 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 07:06:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 12:23:07?AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:32:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:43:54 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The helper bars helped a lot in getting up and sitting down on the
>>>>>> Catrike.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a helper bar?
>>
>>>> I coined a term that describes a small bar end bar that I attached to
>>>> my Catrike's handlebars that I could grab on to to "help" me get on an
>>>> off my Catrike.
>>
>> Thanks. I have a pair of those which I previously used to produce a
>> more upright riding position and provide a mount for dual headlights.
>> Neither worked for me, but I can see where they would be helpful for
>> dismounting from your tricycle. I believe the proper term is "bar
>> ends" or "handlebar ends":
>> "The rise and fall of bicycle bar ends"
>> <https://www.restoration.bike/bikes-and-parts/bicycle-bar-ends/>
>>
>>> Now note that you carefully explained what you meant many postings
>>> ago and this string is all about it. All Liebermann would have to
>>> do is look back and he could see for himself. Again more signs of
>>> dementia. He forgets how to use his own computer.
>>
>> RBT is getting approximately 150 messages per day. I don't have time
>> to read every message. At an average of 1 minute per message, it
>> would take me 2.5 hours to read a days worth of message. My replies
>> usually involve some research where it takes me 15 to 45 minutes to
>> produce a proper reply. That's too much.
>>
>> Instead, I skim through the message list and sample blocks of threaded
>> messages. If they're all about guns or politics, I mark the entire
>> block as having been read. I don't recall reading a relevant message
>> and likely marked it read because it may have been mixed in with guns
>> and politics. Prior to posting my question, I searched with Google
>> for "bicycle helper bar", but found nothing useful. I also used
>> Google Groups Search to look for "helper bar" in past articles and
>> also found nothing:
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/search?q=%22helper+bar%22>
>> So, I posted my question.

>+1
>
>You asked a simple question without calling anyone names.

Thanks. I don't call people names, belittle them, or butcher their
real names. It's not because I'm a practitioner of ethical debate,
diplomacy and etiquette. It's because I'm quite inept at doing these,
probably due to a lack of practice. For me, subtlety, logic and
humor, have been much more effective than name calling.

I found the original message dated 4/15/2023, 5 days ago under
Subject: Helper bar end ears.
There were 26 messages in the thread, all of which were about leg
cramps and various dietary recommendations. Not one mention of bar
ends. I wasn't interested and marked the thread as read after
skimming 4 random messages.

To further ruin my image, I have a complaint. I don't like one or two
line replies, also known as "text messaging". While I do care about
people's opinions, it's the reason why they chose to agree or disagree
that gets my interest and attention. It's impossible to explain such
the supporting reasoning and logic in one or two lines. For me, such
one line messages are usually not worth reading.

The one line replies also have a price. They usually include quoting
the entire thread of messages. I've seen one line replies appended to
150 lines of previous messages. I don't like the scrolling needed to
go to the bottom of the page. When my mouse wheel finally falls
apart, I'll probably contrive a one button "go to bottom of page"
macro for Forte Agent as a work around. Until then, it would help me
greatly if people would trim their message quotes.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 13:13:46 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>I found the original message dated 4/15/2023, 5 days ago under
>Subject: Helper bar end ears.

Oops. That should have been:
"Subject: Helper bar end bars."
I have no idea what I was thinking then I tried and failed to
accurately copy the subject line from one window to another.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 4/20/2023 3:13 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 13:20:36 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 4/20/2023 12:55 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 07:06:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 12:23:07?AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:32:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:43:54 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The helper bars helped a lot in getting up and sitting down on the
>>>>>>> Catrike.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a helper bar?
>>>
>>>>> I coined a term that describes a small bar end bar that I attached to
>>>>> my Catrike's handlebars that I could grab on to to "help" me get on an
>>>>> off my Catrike.
>>>
>>> Thanks. I have a pair of those which I previously used to produce a
>>> more upright riding position and provide a mount for dual headlights.
>>> Neither worked for me, but I can see where they would be helpful for
>>> dismounting from your tricycle. I believe the proper term is "bar
>>> ends" or "handlebar ends":
>>> "The rise and fall of bicycle bar ends"
>>> <https://www.restoration.bike/bikes-and-parts/bicycle-bar-ends/>
>>>
>>>> Now note that you carefully explained what you meant many postings
>>>> ago and this string is all about it. All Liebermann would have to
>>>> do is look back and he could see for himself. Again more signs of
>>>> dementia. He forgets how to use his own computer.
>>>
>>> RBT is getting approximately 150 messages per day. I don't have time
>>> to read every message. At an average of 1 minute per message, it
>>> would take me 2.5 hours to read a days worth of message. My replies
>>> usually involve some research where it takes me 15 to 45 minutes to
>>> produce a proper reply. That's too much.
>>>
>>> Instead, I skim through the message list and sample blocks of threaded
>>> messages. If they're all about guns or politics, I mark the entire
>>> block as having been read. I don't recall reading a relevant message
>>> and likely marked it read because it may have been mixed in with guns
>>> and politics. Prior to posting my question, I searched with Google
>>> for "bicycle helper bar", but found nothing useful. I also used
>>> Google Groups Search to look for "helper bar" in past articles and
>>> also found nothing:
>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/search?q=%22helper+bar%22>
>>> So, I posted my question.
>
>> +1
>>
>> You asked a simple question without calling anyone names.
>
> Thanks. I don't call people names, belittle them, or butcher their
> real names. It's not because I'm a practitioner of ethical debate,
> diplomacy and etiquette. It's because I'm quite inept at doing these,
> probably due to a lack of practice. For me, subtlety, logic and
> humor, have been much more effective than name calling.
>
> I found the original message dated 4/15/2023, 5 days ago under
> Subject: Helper bar end ears.
> There were 26 messages in the thread, all of which were about leg
> cramps and various dietary recommendations. Not one mention of bar
> ends. I wasn't interested and marked the thread as read after
> skimming 4 random messages.
>
> To further ruin my image, I have a complaint. I don't like one or two
> line replies, also known as "text messaging". While I do care about
> people's opinions, it's the reason why they chose to agree or disagree
> that gets my interest and attention. It's impossible to explain such
> the supporting reasoning and logic in one or two lines. For me, such
> one line messages are usually not worth reading.
>
> The one line replies also have a price. They usually include quoting
> the entire thread of messages. I've seen one line replies appended to
> 150 lines of previous messages. I don't like the scrolling needed to
> go to the bottom of the page. When my mouse wheel finally falls
> apart, I'll probably contrive a one button "go to bottom of page"
> macro for Forte Agent as a work around. Until then, it would help me
> greatly if people would trim their message quotes.
>
>
>

In my email reader, spacebar advances one screen down or, if
at end of message, advances to next message.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/20/2023 4:13 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> To further ruin my image, I have a complaint. I don't like one or two
> line replies, also known as "text messaging". While I do care about
> people's opinions, it's the reason why they chose to agree or disagree
> that gets my interest and attention. It's impossible to explain such
> the supporting reasoning and logic in one or two lines. For me, such
> one line messages are usually not worth reading.

I applaud your judgment. The person here most prone to one line replies
seems to specialize in insults or fact-free proclamations - things like
"that's just your opinion" or "correlation is not causation."

Hey, maybe I can provide a service! Like Tommy's mythical email
correspondent, I can check those one line posts and email you if any of
them ever contain items of intelligence!

Seriously, I wouldn't mind. It would be a job with very light duty. ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 18:17:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 4/20/2023 4:13 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>
>> To further ruin my image, I have a complaint. I don't like one or two
>> line replies, also known as "text messaging". While I do care about
>> people's opinions, it's the reason why they chose to agree or disagree
>> that gets my interest and attention. It's impossible to explain such
>> the supporting reasoning and logic in one or two lines. For me, such
>> one line messages are usually not worth reading.
>
>I applaud your judgment. The person here most prone to one line replies
>seems to specialize in insults or fact-free proclamations - things like
>"that's just your opinion" or "correlation is not causation."
>
>Hey, maybe I can provide a service! Like Tommy's mythical email
>correspondent, I can check those one line posts and email you if any of
>them ever contain items of intelligence!
>
>Seriously, I wouldn't mind. It would be a job with very light duty. ;-)

Krugowski is whining because I dismiss his nonsense rhetoric and
refuse to discuss what he wants to discuss.

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 15:44:05 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 4/20/2023 3:13 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> The one line replies also have a price. They usually include quoting
>> the entire thread of messages. I've seen one line replies appended to
>> 150 lines of previous messages. I don't like the scrolling needed to
>> go to the bottom of the page. When my mouse wheel finally falls
>> apart, I'll probably contrive a one button "go to bottom of page"
>> macro for Forte Agent as a work around. Until then, it would help me
>> greatly if people would trim their message quotes.

>In my email reader, spacebar advances one screen down or, if
>at end of message, advances to next message.

Looks like you're using Thunderbird to read Usenet News. From your
message header:
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120604
Thunderbird/13.0
I tried it in Thunderbird and it works as you describe.

In Forte Agent, the space bar scrolls down a page as you describe. I
plead ignorance. I never noticed how the space bar worked. Thank you
for saving what's left of my sanity, saving my mouse wheel from a
premature demise, saving my mouse finger from repetitive strain
injury, and saving me from the painful effort of writing a macro. I'm
not sure if I like the way it goes to the next message, but I can live
with it.

However, I still don't the large amount of quoted text. The planet
has a limited supply of white space. At the present rate, we will run
out of white space in 2038 to coincide when the clocks begin to run
backwards:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem>
and AllTheWordsWillRunTogether.
ThatWillBeAProblemForTheNextGeneration.ComputerSientistsAreAlreadyWorkingOnTheProblem.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_character>
Only 25 different types of space characters available. Ugh.

I don't think that using a "dark mode" with it's black background
calls it "dark space" (yet).

Thanks again.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 4/20/2023 6:34 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 18:17:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 4/20/2023 4:13 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>
>>> To further ruin my image, I have a complaint. I don't like one or two
>>> line replies, also known as "text messaging". While I do care about
>>> people's opinions, it's the reason why they chose to agree or disagree
>>> that gets my interest and attention. It's impossible to explain such
>>> the supporting reasoning and logic in one or two lines. For me, such
>>> one line messages are usually not worth reading.
>>
>> I applaud your judgment. The person here most prone to one line replies
>> seems to specialize in insults or fact-free proclamations - things like
>> "that's just your opinion" or "correlation is not causation."
>>
>> Hey, maybe I can provide a service! Like Tommy's mythical email
>> correspondent, I can check those one line posts and email you if any of
>> them ever contain items of intelligence!
>>
>> Seriously, I wouldn't mind. It would be a job with very light duty. ;-)
>
>
> Krugowski is whining because I dismiss his nonsense rhetoric and
> refuse to discuss what he wants to discuss.

That does not qualify to be forwarded. ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 22:05:36 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 4/20/2023 6:34 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 18:17:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/20/2023 4:13 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>
>>>> To further ruin my image, I have a complaint. I don't like one or two
>>>> line replies, also known as "text messaging". While I do care about
>>>> people's opinions, it's the reason why they chose to agree or disagree
>>>> that gets my interest and attention. It's impossible to explain such
>>>> the supporting reasoning and logic in one or two lines. For me, such
>>>> one line messages are usually not worth reading.
>>>
>>> I applaud your judgment. The person here most prone to one line replies
>>> seems to specialize in insults or fact-free proclamations - things like
>>> "that's just your opinion" or "correlation is not causation."
>>>
>>> Hey, maybe I can provide a service! Like Tommy's mythical email
>>> correspondent, I can check those one line posts and email you if any of
>>> them ever contain items of intelligence!
>>>
>>> Seriously, I wouldn't mind. It would be a job with very light duty. ;-)
>>
>>
>> Krugowski is whining because I dismiss his nonsense rhetoric and
>> refuse to discuss what he wants to discuss.
>
>That does not qualify to be forwarded. ;-)

"B-b-but why can't I have more candy," whines the toddler in the
grocery checkout lane. Arguing with them accomplishes nothing.

IMHO, dismissing a narcissistic with a smile and an eyeroll as you
would that child is the best way to deal with them.

On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 03:40:33 -0400, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 22:05:36 -0400, Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 4/20/2023 6:34 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 18:17:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/20/2023 4:13 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> To further ruin my image, I have a complaint. I don't like one or two
>>>>> line replies, also known as "text messaging". While I do care about
>>>>> people's opinions, it's the reason why they chose to agree or disagree
>>>>> that gets my interest and attention. It's impossible to explain such
>>>>> the supporting reasoning and logic in one or two lines. For me, such
>>>>> one line messages are usually not worth reading.
>>>>
>>>> I applaud your judgment. The person here most prone to one line replies
>>>> seems to specialize in insults or fact-free proclamations - things like
>>>> "that's just your opinion" or "correlation is not causation."
>>>>
>>>> Hey, maybe I can provide a service! Like Tommy's mythical email
>>>> correspondent, I can check those one line posts and email you if any of
>>>> them ever contain items of intelligence!
>>>>
>>>> Seriously, I wouldn't mind. It would be a job with very light duty. ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Krugowski is whining because I dismiss his nonsense rhetoric and
>>> refuse to discuss what he wants to discuss.
>>
>>That does not qualify to be forwarded. ;-)
>
>
>"B-b-but why can't I have more candy," whines the toddler in the
>grocery checkout lane. Arguing with them accomplishes nothing.
>
>IMHO, dismissing a narcissistic with a smile and an eyeroll as you
>would that child is the best way to deal with them.

Of course.... it is some times referred to as "egotism".
An exaggerated opinion of your own importance or an inflated feeling
of pride in your superiority to others.

Often referred to, by common folk, as a "Swelled Head".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 14:55:55 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 03:40:33 -0400, Catrike Rider
><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 22:05:36 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On 4/20/2023 6:34 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 18:17:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/20/2023 4:13 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To further ruin my image, I have a complaint. I don't like one or two
>>>>>> line replies, also known as "text messaging". While I do care about
>>>>>> people's opinions, it's the reason why they chose to agree or disagree
>>>>>> that gets my interest and attention. It's impossible to explain such
>>>>>> the supporting reasoning and logic in one or two lines. For me, such
>>>>>> one line messages are usually not worth reading.
>>>>>
>>>>> I applaud your judgment. The person here most prone to one line replies
>>>>> seems to specialize in insults or fact-free proclamations - things like
>>>>> "that's just your opinion" or "correlation is not causation."
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey, maybe I can provide a service! Like Tommy's mythical email
>>>>> correspondent, I can check those one line posts and email you if any of
>>>>> them ever contain items of intelligence!
>>>>>
>>>>> Seriously, I wouldn't mind. It would be a job with very light duty. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Krugowski is whining because I dismiss his nonsense rhetoric and
>>>> refuse to discuss what he wants to discuss.
>>>
>>>That does not qualify to be forwarded. ;-)
>>
>>
>>"B-b-but why can't I have more candy," whines the toddler in the
>>grocery checkout lane. Arguing with them accomplishes nothing.
>>
>>IMHO, dismissing a narcissistic with a smile and an eyeroll as you
>>would that child is the best way to deal with them.
>
>Of course.... it is some times referred to as "egotism".
> An exaggerated opinion of your own importance or an inflated feeling
>of pride in your superiority to others.
>
>Often referred to, by common folk, as a "Swelled Head".

As my father used to say, "talking just to hear the sound of your own
voice."