https://cwbchicago.com/2023/06/new-chicago-resident-charged-four-robberies-carjacking-loop.html

Inquiring readers wonder whether the junior mugger was
wearing a helmet when he dumped his bicycle. If he was, it
may have saved his life so he could then accost the helpful
woman passing by.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 6:35:09 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> https://cwbchicago.com/2023/06/new-chicago-resident-charged-four-robberies-carjacking-loop.html
>
> Inquiring readers wonder whether the junior mugger was
> wearing a helmet when he dumped his bicycle. If he was, it
> may have saved his life so he could then accost the helpful
> woman passing by.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Democrats won't prosecute him.

On Wed, 28 Jun 2023 07:25:59 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 6:35:09?AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> https://cwbchicago.com/2023/06/new-chicago-resident-charged-four-robberies-carjacking-loop.html
>>
>> Inquiring readers wonder whether the junior mugger was
>> wearing a helmet when he dumped his bicycle. If he was, it
>> may have saved his life so he could then accost the helpful
>> woman passing by.

>Democrats won't prosecute him.

Thank you for introducing a political component to the discussion.
Next time you actually vote in an election, you might notice that the
county sheriffs, judges and district attorneys positions are
non-political.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 6/29/2023 11:36 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Jun 2023 07:25:59 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 6:35:09?AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>> https://cwbchicago.com/2023/06/new-chicago-resident-charged-four-robberies-carjacking-loop.html
>>>
>>> Inquiring readers wonder whether the junior mugger was
>>> wearing a helmet when he dumped his bicycle. If he was, it
>>> may have saved his life so he could then accost the helpful
>>> woman passing by.
>
>> Democrats won't prosecute him.
>
> Thank you for introducing a political component to the discussion.
> Next time you actually vote in an election, you might notice that the
> county sheriffs, judges and district attorneys positions are
> non-political.
>

Uh, That's in Ella Noise where elected Judges, Sheriffs and
State's Attorneys are extremely (some might say at this
point fatally) political.

In California, as (AFAIK) all States, county Sheriffs are
not only elected but are the highest ranking LE position.

I don't know about CA judges but CA county prosecutors are
both elected and also (newsy!) subject to voter recall.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 13:26:11 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 6/29/2023 11:36 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Jun 2023 07:25:59 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 6:35:09?AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> https://cwbchicago.com/2023/06/new-chicago-resident-charged-four-robberies-carjacking-loop.html
>>>>
>>>> Inquiring readers wonder whether the junior mugger was
>>>> wearing a helmet when he dumped his bicycle. If he was, it
>>>> may have saved his life so he could then accost the helpful
>>>> woman passing by.
>>
>>> Democrats won't prosecute him.
>>
>> Thank you for introducing a political component to the discussion.
>> Next time you actually vote in an election, you might notice that the
>> county sheriffs, judges and district attorneys positions are
>> non-political.

>Uh, That's in Ella Noise where elected Judges, Sheriffs and
>State's Attorneys are extremely (some might say at this
>point fatally) political.

They're also political in California. The reason is that getting
elected requires money. I order to get funding, the candidates can
accept donations, but not from political parties. However, I suspect
that this rule is not strictly followed. Anyway, my point is that
party preferences are not suppose to be a factor in prosecuting
criminals.

>In California, as (AFAIK) all States, county Sheriffs are
>not only elected but are the highest ranking LE position.

In California, the highest ranking law enforcement official is the
state attorney general.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_agencies_in_California>
"According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics' 2008 Census of
State and Local Law Enforcement Agencies, California had 509 law
enforcement agencies..."

>I don't know about CA judges but CA county prosecutors are
>both elected and also (newsy!) subject to voter recall.

Yep. In California, the prosecutor is called the "district attorney".
<https://www.google.com/search?q=california+district+attorney+recall>

The Republican's started this recall, but it was officially led by the
Democrats:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_San_Francisco_District_Attorney_recall_election>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 11:26:21 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/29/2023 11:36 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Wed, 28 Jun 2023 07:25:59 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 6:35:09?AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>> https://cwbchicago.com/2023/06/new-chicago-resident-charged-four-robberies-carjacking-loop.html
> >>>
> >>> Inquiring readers wonder whether the junior mugger was
> >>> wearing a helmet when he dumped his bicycle. If he was, it
> >>> may have saved his life so he could then accost the helpful
> >>> woman passing by.
> >
> >> Democrats won't prosecute him.
> >
> > Thank you for introducing a political component to the discussion.
> > Next time you actually vote in an election, you might notice that the
> > county sheriffs, judges and district attorneys positions are
> > non-political.
> >
> Uh, That's in Ella Noise where elected Judges, Sheriffs and
> State's Attorneys are extremely (some might say at this
> point fatally) political.
>
> In California, as (AFAIK) all States, county Sheriffs are
> not only elected but are the highest ranking LE position.
>
> I don't know about CA judges but CA county prosecutors are
> both elected and also (newsy!) subject to voter recall.

But you simply cannot believe the people that remain here in California. While having my coffee at the half way mark of my 47 mile ride this morning. The next table over were three motorcycle riders discussing how you should pay road taxes. First they went from mileage taxes so that electric cars would pay their own fare share (electric cars are about 2 times as heavy as a ICE car with a full gas tank) Well, how would you know how much mileage in order to charge the road tax? Why you connect everything though the Internet so that you always know where anyone is and how many miles they've driven. Then they came up with yet a better answer - you charge people road taxes NOT by how much they actually use the roads, but by how much income they have. Somehow they seemed to think that that is how it works in Europe and the communist agenda always is better than freedom. Were these kids? No, they were people over 60 living in one of the most expensive areas in the East Bay.

These sorts of people completely agree with the Soros funded prosecutors unless THEY are the targets of criminal actions. Then suddenly it is unfair.

On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 14:41:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>electric cars are about 2 times as heavy as a ICE car with a full gas tank.

Amazing. Note the curb weight includes the weight of fuel:
<https://www.quora.com/Is-a-Tesla-heavier-than-an-ICE-car-of-equal-size>

Google: "curb weight <vehicle>" for any comparison set you want.
Here are the results of those queries for two Teslas and what
I think of as an example Audi and BMW of similar size. I’m
quite surprised at how closely they match up in weight.

Tesla Model S - Curb weight 4,647 lbs
Audi A8 - Curb weight 4,751 lbs
BMW 7 series - Curb weight 4,244 - 4,848 lbs

Tesla Model 3 - Curb weight 3,627 to 4,072 lbs
Audi A4 - Curb weight 3,450 to 3,627 lbs
BMW 3 series - 3,582 to 4,010 lbs

The Tesla Model 3 is 104 lbs heavier than the Audio A8 or:
(4,751 - 4,647 lbs) / 4,647 = 2.2% heavier.
That will have the same effect on road damage as a typical teenage
passenger. 2.2% is nowhere near your contrived "2 times as heavy".
Depending on your choice of comparative ICE vehicles, options and
accessories, the results are similar.

Some Tesla Models can weigh over 6,000 lbs because of the incentives
and tax credits offered to heavy weights:
<https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives>
As part of the 2023 Inflation Reduction Act, eligible
businesses and tax-exempt organizations can claim up
to a $7,500 credit when purchasing new Tesla vehicles
with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of up to
14,000 pounds. All Tesla passenger vehicles qualify
for this incentive:
Model S Model 3 Model X Model Y

If you can provide some evidence that demonstrates your assertion that
an EV is twice as heavy at a comparable ICE vehicle, I'm willing to
listen.

Score: 1 claim, zero correct.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 8:44:56 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 14:41:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >electric cars are about 2 times as heavy as a ICE car with a full gas tank.
>
> Amazing. Note the curb weight includes the weight of fuel:
> <https://www.quora.com/Is-a-Tesla-heavier-than-an-ICE-car-of-equal-size>
>
> Google: "curb weight <vehicle>" for any comparison set you want.
> Here are the results of those queries for two Teslas and what
> I think of as an example Audi and BMW of similar size. I’m
> quite surprised at how closely they match up in weight.
>
> Tesla Model S - Curb weight 4,647 lbs
> Audi A8 - Curb weight 4,751 lbs
> BMW 7 series - Curb weight 4,244 - 4,848 lbs
>
> Tesla Model 3 - Curb weight 3,627 to 4,072 lbs
> Audi A4 - Curb weight 3,450 to 3,627 lbs
> BMW 3 series - 3,582 to 4,010 lbs
>
> The Tesla Model 3 is 104 lbs heavier than the Audio A8 or:
> (4,751 - 4,647 lbs) / 4,647 = 2.2% heavier.
> That will have the same effect on road damage as a typical teenage
> passenger. 2.2% is nowhere near your contrived "2 times as heavy".
> Depending on your choice of comparative ICE vehicles, options and
> accessories, the results are similar.
>
> Some Tesla Models can weigh over 6,000 lbs because of the incentives
> and tax credits offered to heavy weights:
> <https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives>
> As part of the 2023 Inflation Reduction Act, eligible
> businesses and tax-exempt organizations can claim up
> to a $7,500 credit when purchasing new Tesla vehicles
> with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of up to
> 14,000 pounds. All Tesla passenger vehicles qualify
> for this incentive:
> Model S Model 3 Model X Model Y
>
> If you can provide some evidence that demonstrates your assertion that
> an EV is twice as heavy at a comparable ICE vehicle, I'm willing to
> listen.
>
> Score: 1 claim, zero correct.

I got busy yesterday and didn't get a chance to respond - you grabbed the low-hanging fruit. I also noted two other points.

" you charge people road taxes NOT by how much they actually use the roads, but by how much income they have"

Not a new idea. It works _sort_ of like that in Massachusetts. The tax base for road maintenance is paid by a combination of the gas tax (roughly equating to miles driven) and a yearly Excise tax based on the value of the vehicle. The former goes to the state for state-funded road maintenance while the latter goes to the town for locally funded projects. This latter segment has a reasonable relationship to income. Higher income people tend to drive more expensive cars and replace them more often such that the tax burden remains elevated, while lower income people drive less expensive cars and keep them longer. Of course, there are ways to beat that. I'm still driving my 2009 Honda Element (nearly 200K miles and still going strong) and my excise tax was $56. I can hardly be considered low-income.

I don't know how many other states levy road taxes based on vehicle value, but neighboring new hampshire charges by GVW.

" Somehow they seemed to think that that is how it works in Europe"

Most if not all european countries charge a VAT on vehicles- again, a reasonable correlation to income.

"and the communist agenda always is better than freedom."

because all of europe is communist....got it.

> Were these kids? No, they were people over 60 living in one of the most expensive areas in the East Bay.

Inotherwords: wealthier, more educated, more life experience. Why would anyone want to give any credibility to someone like that?

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 2:41:54 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 11:26:21 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 6/29/2023 11:36 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > > On Wed, 28 Jun 2023 07:25:59 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 6:35:09?AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>> https://cwbchicago.com/2023/06/new-chicago-resident-charged-four-robberies-carjacking-loop.html
> > >>>
> > >>> Inquiring readers wonder whether the junior mugger was
> > >>> wearing a helmet when he dumped his bicycle. If he was, it
> > >>> may have saved his life so he could then accost the helpful
> > >>> woman passing by.
> > >
> > >> Democrats won't prosecute him.
> > >
> > > Thank you for introducing a political component to the discussion.
> > > Next time you actually vote in an election, you might notice that the
> > > county sheriffs, judges and district attorneys positions are
> > > non-political.
> > >
> > Uh, That's in Ella Noise where elected Judges, Sheriffs and
> > State's Attorneys are extremely (some might say at this
> > point fatally) political.
> >
> > In California, as (AFAIK) all States, county Sheriffs are
> > not only elected but are the highest ranking LE position.
> >
> > I don't know about CA judges but CA county prosecutors are
> > both elected and also (newsy!) subject to voter recall.
> But you simply cannot believe the people that remain here in California. While having my coffee at the half way mark of my 47 mile ride this morning.. The next table over were three motorcycle riders discussing how you should pay road taxes. First they went from mileage taxes so that electric cars would pay their own fare share (electric cars are about 2 times as heavy as a ICE car with a full gas tank) Well, how would you know how much mileage in order to charge the road tax? Why you connect everything though the Internet so that you always know where anyone is and how many miles they've driven. Then they came up with yet a better answer - you charge people road taxes NOT by how much they actually use the roads, but by how much income they have. Somehow they seemed to think that that is how it works in Europe and the communist agenda always is better than freedom. Were these kids? No, they were people over 60 living in one of the most expensive areas in the East Bay.
>
> These sorts of people completely agree with the Soros funded prosecutors unless THEY are the targets of criminal actions. Then suddenly it is unfair..

Well, I got up this morning to an email telling me that Flunky and know-nothing Liebermann were cherry picking as usual. Here is what the email said:

"Your statements as usual were answered with stupid and corrupt comments. A Toyota Corolla weighs 2,900 lbs and a Kia Forte, both of which are more or less equal to the, Tesla, has a curb weight of 2,900 lbs. The battery pack and puncture guard alone of the Tesla is 2,500 lbs."

Well I suppose this is nothing more than yet another example of the engineering prowess of two idiots that like to flaunt their degrees.

On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 07:23:46 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>Well, I got up this morning to an email telling me that Flunky and know-nothing Liebermann were cherry picking as usual. Here is what the email said:

I didn't do the "cherry picking". I cited which provided a suitable
comparison.
<https://www.quora.com/Is-a-Tesla-heavier-than-an-ICE-car-of-equal-size>

Good to know that your anonymous informant works all night on your
behalf.

>"Your statements as usual were answered with stupid and corrupt comments. A Toyota Corolla weighs 2,900 lbs and a Kia Forte, both of which are more or less equal to the, Tesla, has a curb weight of 2,900 lbs. The battery pack and puncture guard alone of the Tesla is 2,500 lbs."

Which year and model Tesla?
On what criteria do you claim that the Corolla and Kia Forte cars are
comparable to an unspecified model Tesla?

At least your ICE engine weights are close:

The 2023 Toyota Corolla has a curb weight of 2,955 - 3,150 lbs.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=toyota+corolla+curb+weight>

The 2023 Kia Forte has a curb weight of 2,908 - 3,079
<https://www.google.com/search?q=kia+forte+curb+weight>

No score today because Tom forgot to include his sources of
information.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 6/30/2023 10:23 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Well, I got up this morning to an email telling me...

You got no such email. Nobody would be foolish enough to email you
reports on posts made to a public group. Why would they? And how would
that make more sense than just reading the original posts?

Nobody but you would pretend something so unreasonable ever happened.
Nobody but you would think that scenario was even plausible. Your weird
claim makes you look even more foolish each time you post it.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 11:05:43 AM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 07:23:46 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Well, I got up this morning to an email telling me that Flunky and know-nothing Liebermann were cherry picking as usual. Here is what the email said:
> I didn't do the "cherry picking". I cited which provided a suitable
> comparison.
> <https://www.quora.com/Is-a-Tesla-heavier-than-an-ICE-car-of-equal-size>
>
> Good to know that your anonymous informant works all night on your
> behalf.
> >"Your statements as usual were answered with stupid and corrupt comments.. A Toyota Corolla weighs 2,900 lbs and a Kia Forte, both of which are more or less equal to the, Tesla, has a curb weight of 2,900 lbs. The battery pack and puncture guard alone of the Tesla is 2,500 lbs."
> Which year and model Tesla?
> On what criteria do you claim that the Corolla and Kia Forte cars are
> comparable to an unspecified model Tesla?
>
> At least your ICE engine weights are close:
>
> The 2023 Toyota Corolla has a curb weight of 2,955 - 3,150 lbs.
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=toyota+corolla+curb+weight>
>
> The 2023 Kia Forte has a curb weight of 2,908 - 3,079
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=kia+forte+curb+weight>
>
> No score today because Tom forgot to include his sources of
> information.
> --

We did find out two things, however:
- tom doesn't understand the term "cherry picking".
- tom doesn't realize the Corolla and the forte' are considered to be a class below the cheapest Tesla - the Model 3.

Besides that, His claim was "twice the weight".....Lets see....

https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/corolla/specs/2023/toyota_corolla_toyota-corolla-sedan_2023/430752
starting at $22,795 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 2908

https://www.caranddriver.com/kia/forte/specs/2023/kia_forte-forte5_kia-forte_2023/430180
starting at $20,815 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 2955

https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-3/specs/2023/tesla_model-3_tesla-model-3_2023/434045
$41,880 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 3862

We can see here that the cheapest Tesla base price is twice as expensive as the cheapest Corolla or Forte, and the weights are a _far_ cry from double..

No, In order to have a comparable selection, we have to go with the Crown from Toyota
https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/crown/specs/2023/toyota_crown_toyota-crown_2023/431412
starting at $41,045 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 3980

~$800 less and 20 pounds more

Or we have to go with a Kia Stinger
https://www.caranddriver.com/kia/stinger/specs/2023/kia_stinger_kia-stinger_2023/428595
starting at $37865 MSRP - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 3611

Kia doesn't actually make a sedan with a base price over $40K But here we see the Stinger ~$4000 less, and ~200lbs lighter.

As usual, the axiom "Tom Is Wrong, Of Course"* is proven correct once again..

*© Scharf

On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 08:05:34 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 07:23:46 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Well, I got up this morning to an email telling me that Flunky and know-nothing Liebermann were cherry picking as usual. Here is what the email said:
>
>I didn't do the "cherry picking". I cited which provided a suitable
>comparison.
><https://www.quora.com/Is-a-Tesla-heavier-than-an-ICE-car-of-equal-size>
>
>Good to know that your anonymous informant works all night on your
>behalf.
>
>>"Your statements as usual were answered with stupid and corrupt comments. A Toyota Corolla weighs 2,900 lbs and a Kia Forte, both of which are more or less equal to the, Tesla, has a curb weight of 2,900 lbs. The battery pack and puncture guard alone of the Tesla is 2,500 lbs."
>
>Which year and model Tesla?
>On what criteria do you claim that the Corolla and Kia Forte cars are
>comparable to an unspecified model Tesla?
>
>At least your ICE engine weights are close:
>
>The 2023 Toyota Corolla has a curb weight of 2,955 - 3,150 lbs.
><https://www.google.com/search?q=toyota+corolla+curb+weight>
>
>The 2023 Kia Forte has a curb weight of 2,908 - 3,079
><https://www.google.com/search?q=kia+forte+curb+weight>
>
>No score today because Tom forgot to include his sources of
>information.

But Jeff... Tommy doesn't need a source. After all it is Tom the
expert (in everything) that you are talking to.

And if you don't believe me.... why just ask him :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 09:58:05 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>We did find out two things, however:
>- tom doesn't understand the term "cherry picking".
>- tom doesn't realize the Corolla and the forte' are considered to be a class below the cheapest Tesla - the Model 3.
>
>Besides that, His claim was "twice the weight".....Lets see....
>
>https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/corolla/specs/2023/toyota_corolla_toyota-corolla-sedan_2023/430752
>starting at $22,795 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 2908
>
>https://www.caranddriver.com/kia/forte/specs/2023/kia_forte-forte5_kia-forte_2023/430180
>starting at $20,815 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 2955
>
>https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-3/specs/2023/tesla_model-3_tesla-model-3_2023/434045
> $41,880 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 3862
>
>We can see here that the cheapest Tesla base price is twice as expensive as the cheapest Corolla or Forte, and the weights are a _far_ cry from double.
>
>No, In order to have a comparable selection, we have to go with the Crown from Toyota
>https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/crown/specs/2023/toyota_crown_toyota-crown_2023/431412
>starting at $41,045 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 3980
>
>~$800 less and 20 pounds more
>
>Or we have to go with a Kia Stinger
>https://www.caranddriver.com/kia/stinger/specs/2023/kia_stinger_kia-stinger_2023/428595
>starting at $37865 MSRP - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 3611
>
>Kia doesn't actually make a sedan with a base price over $40K But here we see the Stinger ~$4000 less, and ~200lbs lighter.
>
>As usual, the axiom "Tom Is Wrong, Of Course"* is proven correct once again.
>
>*© Scharf

Thanks for doing all that research. Assuming a Tesla Model 3, your
analysis debunks all of Tom's amazing facts.

Also, my apologies. I posted my comments in a hurry because I was
late for my Friday morning trudge. I didn't have time to provide a
proper comparison. I also butchered one sentence.

I think I adequately demonstrated my main points. However, I'm open
to Tom providing some additional information which might excavate him
from of the hole he dug for himself.

I'll wait a day or two for Tom to reply with
1. his sources,
2. which Tesla model he's using for his comparison
3. and why he considers the Toyota Corolla and Kia Forte to be
comparable with an unspecified model Tesla vehicle.

Incidentally, California is might be moving away from fuel tax based
road repair funding and toward a mileage based road tax:
<https://caroadcharge.com/about>
The main incentive is that EV's don't use fuel and therefore don't pay
their "fair share" of road maintenance costs.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 01 Jul 2023 07:47:13 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>But Jeff... Tommy doesn't need a source.

Actually, Tom does have a single source of information.
<http://townhall.com>

>After all it is Tom the expert (in everything) that
>you are talking to.

Well, he certainly does have an opinion on everything. Ever notice
that he adds his opinions in every thread and discussion?

>And if you don't believe me.... why just ask him :-)

I have asked him, but he's ignoring me. I'm enjoying Tom's inability
to answer my questions, so I don't consider this to be a problem.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 21:43:23 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 01 Jul 2023 07:47:13 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>But Jeff... Tommy doesn't need a source.
>
>Actually, Tom does have a single source of information.
><http://townhall.com>
>
>>After all it is Tom the expert (in everything) that
>>you are talking to.
>
>Well, he certainly does have an opinion on everything. Ever notice
>that he adds his opinions in every thread and discussion?
>
>>And if you don't believe me.... why just ask him :-)
>
>I have asked him, but he's ignoring me. I'm enjoying Tom's inability
>to answer my questions, so I don't consider this to be a problem.

Well, of course he ignores you. After all you are one of the nasty
four, you know, those guys that back up their posts with data. Truth
sayers, one might call them (as opposed to truth slayer :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 10:50:47 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 09:58:05 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >We did find out two things, however:
> >- tom doesn't understand the term "cherry picking".
> >- tom doesn't realize the Corolla and the forte' are considered to be a class below the cheapest Tesla - the Model 3.
> >
> >Besides that, His claim was "twice the weight".....Lets see....
> >
> >https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/corolla/specs/2023/toyota_corolla_toyota-corolla-sedan_2023/430752
> >starting at $22,795 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 2908
> >
> >https://www.caranddriver.com/kia/forte/specs/2023/kia_forte-forte5_kia-forte_2023/430180
> >starting at $20,815 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 2955
> >
> >https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-3/specs/2023/tesla_model-3_tesla-model-3_2023/434045
> > $41,880 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 3862
> >
> >We can see here that the cheapest Tesla base price is twice as expensive as the cheapest Corolla or Forte, and the weights are a _far_ cry from double.
> >
> >No, In order to have a comparable selection, we have to go with the Crown from Toyota
> >https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/crown/specs/2023/toyota_crown_toyota-crown_2023/431412
> >starting at $41,045 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 3980
> >
> >~$800 less and 20 pounds more
> >
> >Or we have to go with a Kia Stinger
> >https://www.caranddriver.com/kia/stinger/specs/2023/kia_stinger_kia-stinger_2023/428595
> >starting at $37865 MSRP - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 3611
> >
> >Kia doesn't actually make a sedan with a base price over $40K But here we see the Stinger ~$4000 less, and ~200lbs lighter.
> >
> >As usual, the axiom "Tom Is Wrong, Of Course"* is proven correct once again.
> >
> >*© Scharf
> Thanks for doing all that research. Assuming a Tesla Model 3, your
> analysis debunks all of Tom's amazing facts.
>
> Also, my apologies. I posted my comments in a hurry because I was
> late for my Friday morning trudge. I didn't have time to provide a
> proper comparison. I also butchered one sentence.
>
> I think I adequately demonstrated my main points. However, I'm open
> to Tom providing some additional information which might excavate him
> from of the hole he dug for himself.
>
> I'll wait a day or two for Tom to reply with
> 1. his sources,
> 2. which Tesla model he's using for his comparison
> 3. and why he considers the Toyota Corolla and Kia Forte to be
> comparable with an unspecified model Tesla vehicle.
>
> Incidentally, California is might be moving away from fuel tax based
> road repair funding and toward a mileage based road tax:
> <https://caroadcharge.com/about>
> The main incentive is that EV's don't use fuel and therefore don't pay
> their "fair share" of road maintenance costs.
> --

That's a complaint I've heard before, actually quite some time ago WRT to hybrids: vehicles like the original Prius and Insight were upwards of 50 MPG if driven judiciously, upsetting the V8 powered SUV/truck crowd who would struggle to maintain 20 MPG on the highway, IOW the hybrid drivers were paying less than half the taxes of the large vehicle drivers for the same milage.

Another similar argument is that bicycles don't pay any taxes for road use. While _specifically_ true, we also own three cars, In that context I'm paying more than my fair share per miles traveled.

On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 10:50:47 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 09:58:05 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >We did find out two things, however:
> >- tom doesn't understand the term "cherry picking".
> >- tom doesn't realize the Corolla and the forte' are considered to be a class below the cheapest Tesla - the Model 3.
> >
> >Besides that, His claim was "twice the weight".....Lets see....
> >
> >https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/corolla/specs/2023/toyota_corolla_toyota-corolla-sedan_2023/430752
> >starting at $22,795 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 2908
> >
> >https://www.caranddriver.com/kia/forte/specs/2023/kia_forte-forte5_kia-forte_2023/430180
> >starting at $20,815 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 2955
> >
> >https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-3/specs/2023/tesla_model-3_tesla-model-3_2023/434045
> > $41,880 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 3862
> >
> >We can see here that the cheapest Tesla base price is twice as expensive as the cheapest Corolla or Forte, and the weights are a _far_ cry from double.
> >
> >No, In order to have a comparable selection, we have to go with the Crown from Toyota
> >https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/crown/specs/2023/toyota_crown_toyota-crown_2023/431412
> >starting at $41,045 - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 3980
> >
> >~$800 less and 20 pounds more
> >
> >Or we have to go with a Kia Stinger
> >https://www.caranddriver.com/kia/stinger/specs/2023/kia_stinger_kia-stinger_2023/428595
> >starting at $37865 MSRP - Base Curb Weight (pounds) 3611
> >
> >Kia doesn't actually make a sedan with a base price over $40K But here we see the Stinger ~$4000 less, and ~200lbs lighter.
> >
> >As usual, the axiom "Tom Is Wrong, Of Course"* is proven correct once again.
> >
> >*© Scharf
> Thanks for doing all that research. Assuming a Tesla Model 3, your
> analysis debunks all of Tom's amazing facts.

It literally took just over ten minutes. That Car and Driver page has a parametric search tool that makes looking up any vehicle a task of less than one minute.

>
> Also, my apologies. I posted my comments in a hurry because I was
> late for my Friday morning trudge. I didn't have time to provide a
> proper comparison. I also butchered one sentence.

You're one of the last people that would need to apologize for anything in this forum.

>
> I think I adequately demonstrated my main points. However, I'm open
> to Tom providing some additional information which might excavate him
> from of the hole he dug for himself.
>
> I'll wait a day or two for Tom to reply with
> 1. his sources,
> 2. which Tesla model he's using for his comparison
> 3. and why he considers the Toyota Corolla and Kia Forte to be
> comparable with an unspecified model Tesla vehicle.

ain't gonna happen

>
> Incidentally, California is might be moving away from fuel tax based
> road repair funding and toward a mileage based road tax:
> <https://caroadcharge.com/about>
> The main incentive is that EV's don't use fuel and therefore don't pay
> their "fair share" of road maintenance costs.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 03:31:23 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Incidentally, California is might be moving away from fuel tax based
>> road repair funding and toward a mileage based road tax:
>> <https://caroadcharge.com/about>
>> The main incentive is that EV's don't use fuel and therefore don't pay
>> their "fair share" of road maintenance costs.
>> --
>
>That's a complaint I've heard before, actually quite some time ago WRT to hybrids: vehicles like the original Prius and Insight were upwards of 50 MPG if driven judiciously, upsetting the V8 powered SUV/truck crowd who would struggle to maintain 20 MPG on the highway, IOW the hybrid drivers were paying less than half the taxes of the large vehicle drivers for the same milage.

Vehicle weight is more important than mileage. The basic problem is
that using fuel consumption as a proxy for miles traveled is bad
enough when different vehicles can have radically different gasoline
mileages. Add EV to the puzzle, and a gas tax is unfair. I'm fairly
sure a suitably complicated and unfathomable formula that includes all
the possible factors will be rejected and whatever the state contrives
in its place will be generally unacceptable and possibly more
complicated and unfathomable.

"Vehicle Weight vs Road Damage Levels"
<https://streets.mn/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-day-vehicle-weight-vs-road-damage-levels/>
"It would take 700 trips by bicycle to equal the damage caused by one
Smart Car. It would take 17,059 trips by bike to equal the damage
caused by an average car. And it would take 364,520 bike trips to
equal the damage caused by just one Hummer H2."

Incidentally, we're having a problem with road damage on our private
road from 25,000 lb propane trucks. Typically, we were resurfacing
the road every 20 years.
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/U4cn1ZuMnepBBm9B9>
However, when all 5 local propane delivery companies switched from
delivery on demand, to cruising the roads to see if anyone needed
topping off, the propane delivery truck traffic tripled. The result
is that we will now need road resurfacing every 7 years.

>Another similar argument is that bicycles don't pay any taxes for
>road use. While _specifically_ true, we also own three cars, In
>that context I'm paying more than my fair share per miles traveled.

I've been dealing with our private road for about 50 years. Over this
time period, we have attempted to assess the residence using a variety
of complicated formulas in a futile attempt to deliver a truly fair
and equitable way to distribute the road repair costs. In 50 years,
we have yet to produce a usable method. I don't believe it can be
done. The science and calculations might suggest that such a system
can be contrived for our road maintenance and for the state road
taxes, but I'm not optimistic that people will accept anything that
they don't understand. Make it simple, and there might be hope, but
when new people and new ideas arrive, simplicity is usually the first
to be discarded. Good luck.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 2023-06-30, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 07:23:46 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Well, I got up this morning to an email telling me that Flunky and know-nothing Liebermann were cherry picking as usual. Here is what the email said:
>
> I didn't do the "cherry picking". I cited which provided a suitable
> comparison.
><https://www.quora.com/Is-a-Tesla-heavier-than-an-ICE-car-of-equal-size>
>
> Good to know that your anonymous informant works all night on your
> behalf.
>
>>"Your statements as usual were answered with stupid and corrupt comments. A Toyota Corolla weighs 2,900 lbs and a Kia Forte, both of which are more or less equal to the, Tesla, has a curb weight of 2,900 lbs. The battery pack and puncture guard alone of the Tesla is 2,500 lbs."
>
> Which year and model Tesla?
> On what criteria do you claim that the Corolla and Kia Forte cars are
> comparable to an unspecified model Tesla?
>
> At least your ICE engine weights are close:
>
> The 2023 Toyota Corolla has a curb weight of 2,955 - 3,150 lbs.
><https://www.google.com/search?q=toyota+corolla+curb+weight>
>
> The 2023 Kia Forte has a curb weight of 2,908 - 3,079
><https://www.google.com/search?q=kia+forte+curb+weight>
>
> No score today because Tom forgot to include his sources of
> information.
>

Morris Minor 1000 2-door: Kerb Weight 1,680 pounds.

pH

On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 23:47:35 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
wrote:

>On 2023-06-30, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 07:23:46 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Well, I got up this morning to an email telling me that Flunky and know-nothing Liebermann were cherry picking as usual. Here is what the email said:
>>
>> I didn't do the "cherry picking". I cited which provided a suitable
>> comparison.
>><https://www.quora.com/Is-a-Tesla-heavier-than-an-ICE-car-of-equal-size>
>>
>> Good to know that your anonymous informant works all night on your
>> behalf.
>>
>>>"Your statements as usual were answered with stupid and corrupt comments. A Toyota Corolla weighs 2,900 lbs and a Kia Forte, both of which are more or less equal to the, Tesla, has a curb weight of 2,900 lbs. The battery pack and puncture guard alone of the Tesla is 2,500 lbs."
>>
>> Which year and model Tesla?
>> On what criteria do you claim that the Corolla and Kia Forte cars are
>> comparable to an unspecified model Tesla?
>>
>> At least your ICE engine weights are close:
>>
>> The 2023 Toyota Corolla has a curb weight of 2,955 - 3,150 lbs.
>><https://www.google.com/search?q=toyota+corolla+curb+weight>
>>
>> The 2023 Kia Forte has a curb weight of 2,908 - 3,079
>><https://www.google.com/search?q=kia+forte+curb+weight>
>>
>> No score today because Tom forgot to include his sources of
>> information.

>Morris Minor 1000 2-door: Kerb Weight 1,680 pounds.
>pH

Ok, I'll bite. Which Tesla model would you considered comparable to
your Morris Minor? Comparing the latest electric vehicles with your
rolling anachronism is not going to work.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=morris+minor+1000&tbm=isch>
Besides, you already get a substantial discount on your vehicle
registration charges.

Also, "Curb vs Kerb"
<https://proofed.co.uk/writing-tips/word-choice-curb-vs-kerb/>
<https://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/curb_kerb.htm>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 7/1/2023 7:47 PM, pH wrote:
> On 2023-06-30, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 07:23:46 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I got up this morning to an email telling me that Flunky and know-nothing Liebermann were cherry picking as usual. Here is what the email said:
>>
>> I didn't do the "cherry picking". I cited which provided a suitable
>> comparison.
>> <https://www.quora.com/Is-a-Tesla-heavier-than-an-ICE-car-of-equal-size>
>>
>> Good to know that your anonymous informant works all night on your
>> behalf.
>>
>>> "Your statements as usual were answered with stupid and corrupt comments. A Toyota Corolla weighs 2,900 lbs and a Kia Forte, both of which are more or less equal to the, Tesla, has a curb weight of 2,900 lbs. The battery pack and puncture guard alone of the Tesla is 2,500 lbs."
>>
>> Which year and model Tesla?
>> On what criteria do you claim that the Corolla and Kia Forte cars are
>> comparable to an unspecified model Tesla?
>>
>> At least your ICE engine weights are close:
>>
>> The 2023 Toyota Corolla has a curb weight of 2,955 - 3,150 lbs.
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=toyota+corolla+curb+weight>
>>
>> The 2023 Kia Forte has a curb weight of 2,908 - 3,079
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=kia+forte+curb+weight>
>>
>> No score today because Tom forgot to include his sources of
>> information.
>>
>
> Morris Minor 1000 2-door: Kerb Weight 1,680 pounds.

The original British Mini was about 1300 pounds. Honda N600 even less.

The Tesla equivalent would be powered by Ni-Cads driving a portable
drill motor.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2023-07-02, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 23:47:35 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
> wrote:
>
>>On 2023-06-30, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 07:23:46 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Well, I got up this morning to an email telling me that Flunky and know-nothing Liebermann were cherry picking as usual. Here is what the email said:
>>>
>>> I didn't do the "cherry picking". I cited which provided a suitable
>>> comparison.
>>><https://www.quora.com/Is-a-Tesla-heavier-than-an-ICE-car-of-equal-size>
>>>
>>> Good to know that your anonymous informant works all night on your
>>> behalf.
>>>
>>>>"Your statements as usual were answered with stupid and corrupt comments. A Toyota Corolla weighs 2,900 lbs and a Kia Forte, both of which are more or less equal to the, Tesla, has a curb weight of 2,900 lbs. The battery pack and puncture guard alone of the Tesla is 2,500 lbs."
>>>
>>> Which year and model Tesla?
>>> On what criteria do you claim that the Corolla and Kia Forte cars are
>>> comparable to an unspecified model Tesla?
>>>
>>> At least your ICE engine weights are close:
>>>
>>> The 2023 Toyota Corolla has a curb weight of 2,955 - 3,150 lbs.
>>><https://www.google.com/search?q=toyota+corolla+curb+weight>
>>>
>>> The 2023 Kia Forte has a curb weight of 2,908 - 3,079
>>><https://www.google.com/search?q=kia+forte+curb+weight>
>>>
>>> No score today because Tom forgot to include his sources of
>>> information.
>
>>Morris Minor 1000 2-door: Kerb Weight 1,680 pounds.
>>pH
>
> Ok, I'll bite. Which Tesla model would you considered comparable to
> your Morris Minor? Comparing the latest electric vehicles with your
> rolling anachronism is not going to work.
><https://www.google.com/search?q=morris+minor+1000&tbm=isch>
> Besides, you already get a substantial discount on your vehicle
> registration charges.

I'll compare it to an electrified bicycle to stay on topic.

Registration was $6/year when I first got it....20 times that now!
Good old California.

pH

>
> Also, "Curb vs Kerb"
><https://proofed.co.uk/writing-tips/word-choice-curb-vs-kerb/>
><https://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/curb_kerb.htm>
>
>

On 7/1/2023 6:47 PM, pH wrote:
> On 2023-06-30, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 07:23:46 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I got up this morning to an email telling me that Flunky and know-nothing Liebermann were cherry picking as usual. Here is what the email said:
>>
>> I didn't do the "cherry picking". I cited which provided a suitable
>> comparison.
>> <https://www.quora.com/Is-a-Tesla-heavier-than-an-ICE-car-of-equal-size>
>>
>> Good to know that your anonymous informant works all night on your
>> behalf.
>>
>>> "Your statements as usual were answered with stupid and corrupt comments. A Toyota Corolla weighs 2,900 lbs and a Kia Forte, both of which are more or less equal to the, Tesla, has a curb weight of 2,900 lbs. The battery pack and puncture guard alone of the Tesla is 2,500 lbs."
>>
>> Which year and model Tesla?
>> On what criteria do you claim that the Corolla and Kia Forte cars are
>> comparable to an unspecified model Tesla?
>>
>> At least your ICE engine weights are close:
>>
>> The 2023 Toyota Corolla has a curb weight of 2,955 - 3,150 lbs.
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=toyota+corolla+curb+weight>
>>
>> The 2023 Kia Forte has a curb weight of 2,908 - 3,079
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=kia+forte+curb+weight>
>>
>> No score today because Tom forgot to include his sources of
>> information.
>>
>
> Morris Minor 1000 2-door: Kerb Weight 1,680 pounds.
>
> pH
>

Handy chart here:
https://insideevs.com/news/527966/electric-cars-from-heaviest-lightest/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 7/1/2023 7:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 23:47:35 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-06-30, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 07:23:46 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, I got up this morning to an email telling me that Flunky and know-nothing Liebermann were cherry picking as usual. Here is what the email said:
>>>
>>> I didn't do the "cherry picking". I cited which provided a suitable
>>> comparison.
>>> <https://www.quora.com/Is-a-Tesla-heavier-than-an-ICE-car-of-equal-size>
>>>
>>> Good to know that your anonymous informant works all night on your
>>> behalf.
>>>
>>>> "Your statements as usual were answered with stupid and corrupt comments. A Toyota Corolla weighs 2,900 lbs and a Kia Forte, both of which are more or less equal to the, Tesla, has a curb weight of 2,900 lbs. The battery pack and puncture guard alone of the Tesla is 2,500 lbs."
>>>
>>> Which year and model Tesla?
>>> On what criteria do you claim that the Corolla and Kia Forte cars are
>>> comparable to an unspecified model Tesla?
>>>
>>> At least your ICE engine weights are close:
>>>
>>> The 2023 Toyota Corolla has a curb weight of 2,955 - 3,150 lbs.
>>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=toyota+corolla+curb+weight>
>>>
>>> The 2023 Kia Forte has a curb weight of 2,908 - 3,079
>>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=kia+forte+curb+weight>
>>>
>>> No score today because Tom forgot to include his sources of
>>> information.
>
>> Morris Minor 1000 2-door: Kerb Weight 1,680 pounds.
>> pH
>
> Ok, I'll bite. Which Tesla model would you considered comparable to
> your Morris Minor? Comparing the latest electric vehicles with your
> rolling anachronism is not going to work.
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=morris+minor+1000&tbm=isch>
> Besides, you already get a substantial discount on your vehicle
> registration charges.
>
> Also, "Curb vs Kerb"
> <https://proofed.co.uk/writing-tips/word-choice-curb-vs-kerb/>
> <https://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/curb_kerb.htm>
>
>

Corvair Corsa 140 2 door[1] at 1000kg is lighter than any
electric listed here:

https://insideevs.com/news/527966/electric-cars-from-heaviest-lightest/

Morris Minor is in another range!

[1]convertibles are significantly heavier

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971