While I suppose you could make a dangerously light carbon fiber bike, there is no pressure for it because of the UCI weight limit. I hear that they don't have any weight limits in the GB hill climb championships I have never seen any weights of the actual bikes.,

On the other hand, the Hour Record, Colnago built for Eddy
Merckx, ready to ride was 5.5 kg.s. Of course that was a track bike without derailleurs and such, but that is still a damned light bike that had steel handlebars and I believe they were still using steel rings and cogs.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> While I suppose you could make a dangerously light carbon fiber bike,
> there is no pressure for it because of the UCI weight limit. I hear that
> they don't have any weight limits in the GB hill climb championships I
> have never seen any weights of the actual bikes.,
>
> On the other hand, the Hour Record, Colnago built for Eddy
> Merckx, ready to ride was 5.5 kg.s. Of course that was a track bike
> without derailleurs and such, but that is still a damned light bike that
> had steel handlebars and I believe they were still using steel rings and cogs.
>

Last years hill climb bikes or at least ones shown!

<https://www.bikeradar.com/features/pro-bike/2022-hill-climb-bikes/?image=3&type=gallery&gallery=1>

so 4.05 KG though might be lighter out there! Note these are mostly geared
disk bikes!

Roger Merriman

On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:30:30 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > While I suppose you could make a dangerously light carbon fiber bike,
> > there is no pressure for it because of the UCI weight limit. I hear that
> > they don't have any weight limits in the GB hill climb championships I
> > have never seen any weights of the actual bikes.,
> >
> > On the other hand, the Hour Record, Colnago built for Eddy
> > Merckx, ready to ride was 5.5 kg.s. Of course that was a track bike
> > without derailleurs and such, but that is still a damned light bike that
> > had steel handlebars and I believe they were still using steel rings and cogs.
> >
> Last years hill climb bikes or at least ones shown!
>
> <https://www.bikeradar.com/features/pro-bike/2022-hill-climb-bikes/?image=3&type=gallery&gallery=1>
>
> so 4.05 KG though might be lighter out there! Note these are mostly geared
> disk bikes!
>
> Roger Merriman
I that like a track bike they have no gears other than the single speed one's. I suppose that if you want superlight that is the only way to go. My steel Lemond weighed 8.8 kg and the Trek Madone weighed 8.1 kg,

On Wed, 28 Jun 2023 12:33:25 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:30:30?AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > While I suppose you could make a dangerously light carbon fiber bike,
>> > there is no pressure for it because of the UCI weight limit. I hear that
>> > they don't have any weight limits in the GB hill climb championships I
>> > have never seen any weights of the actual bikes.,
>> >
>> > On the other hand, the Hour Record, Colnago built for Eddy
>> > Merckx, ready to ride was 5.5 kg.s. Of course that was a track bike
>> > without derailleurs and such, but that is still a damned light bike that
>> > had steel handlebars and I believe they were still using steel rings and cogs.
>> >
>> Last years hill climb bikes or at least ones shown!
>>
>> <https://www.bikeradar.com/features/pro-bike/2022-hill-climb-bikes/?image=3&type=gallery&gallery=1>
>>
>> so 4.05 KG though might be lighter out there! Note these are mostly geared
>> disk bikes!
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>I that like a track bike they have no gears other than the single speed one's. I suppose that if you want superlight that is the only way to go. My steel Lemond weighed 8.8 kg and the Trek Madone weighed 8.1 kg,

If you want a light bike try 2.7 kg
https://www.redbull.com/int-en/check-out-the-worlds-lightest-custom-road-bike

--
Cheers,

John B.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:30:30 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> While I suppose you could make a dangerously light carbon fiber bike,
>>> there is no pressure for it because of the UCI weight limit. I hear that
>>> they don't have any weight limits in the GB hill climb championships I
>>> have never seen any weights of the actual bikes.,
>>>
>>> On the other hand, the Hour Record, Colnago built for Eddy
>>> Merckx, ready to ride was 5.5 kg.s. Of course that was a track bike
>>> without derailleurs and such, but that is still a damned light bike that
>>> had steel handlebars and I believe they were still using steel rings and cogs.
>>>
>> Last years hill climb bikes or at least ones shown!
>>
>> <https://www.bikeradar.com/features/pro-bike/2022-hill-climb-bikes/?image=3&type=gallery&gallery=1>
>>
>>
>> so 4.05 KG though might be lighter out there! Note these are mostly geared
>> disk bikes!
>>
>> Roger Merriman
> I that like a track bike they have no gears other than the single speed
> one's. I suppose that if you want superlight that is the only way to go.
> My steel Lemond weighed 8.8 kg and the Trek Madone weighed 8.1 kg,
>
I would be more interested in a ultra light hill climb bikes as light bikes
do feel great on hills at least up them! Track bikes more aero than weight
would seem, which is fine but not my thing.

To be honest I’m not sure how much my bikes weigh the MTB being mid end is
likely to be mid pack for that sort of bike.

The gravel bike has flat pedals and mid end stuff, not a huge difference I
think between it and the MTB in absolute terms i suspect.

In essence for my general bikes it’s not a big deal for me personally.

Roger Merriman

On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:33:59 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:30:30 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> While I suppose you could make a dangerously light carbon fiber bike,
> >>> there is no pressure for it because of the UCI weight limit. I hear that
> >>> they don't have any weight limits in the GB hill climb championships I
> >>> have never seen any weights of the actual bikes.,
> >>>
> >>> On the other hand, the Hour Record, Colnago built for Eddy
> >>> Merckx, ready to ride was 5.5 kg.s. Of course that was a track bike
> >>> without derailleurs and such, but that is still a damned light bike that
> >>> had steel handlebars and I believe they were still using steel rings and cogs.
> >>>
> >> Last years hill climb bikes or at least ones shown!
> >>
> >> <https://www.bikeradar.com/features/pro-bike/2022-hill-climb-bikes/?image=3&type=gallery&gallery=1>
> >>
> >>
> >> so 4.05 KG though might be lighter out there! Note these are mostly geared
> >> disk bikes!
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> > I that like a track bike they have no gears other than the single speed
> > one's. I suppose that if you want superlight that is the only way to go..
> > My steel Lemond weighed 8.8 kg and the Trek Madone weighed 8.1 kg,
> >
> I would be more interested in a ultra light hill climb bikes as light bikes
> do feel great on hills at least up them! Track bikes more aero than weight
> would seem, which is fine but not my thing.
>
> To be honest I’m not sure how much my bikes weigh the MTB being mid end is
> likely to be mid pack for that sort of bike.
>
> The gravel bike has flat pedals and mid end stuff, not a huge difference I
> think between it and the MTB in absolute terms i suspect.
>
> In essence for my general bikes it’s not a big deal for me personally.
>
> Roger Merriman
I had a Look KG585 that weighed a little over 7 kg and while is climbed fine, It jumped around under me like a kangaroo. I got rid of it and never looked back

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:33:59 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:30:30 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> While I suppose you could make a dangerously light carbon fiber bike,
>>>>> there is no pressure for it because of the UCI weight limit. I hear that
>>>>> they don't have any weight limits in the GB hill climb championships I
>>>>> have never seen any weights of the actual bikes.,
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, the Hour Record, Colnago built for Eddy
>>>>> Merckx, ready to ride was 5.5 kg.s. Of course that was a track bike
>>>>> without derailleurs and such, but that is still a damned light bike that
>>>>> had steel handlebars and I believe they were still using steel rings and cogs.
>>>>>
>>>> Last years hill climb bikes or at least ones shown!
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.bikeradar.com/features/pro-bike/2022-hill-climb-bikes/?image=3&type=gallery&gallery=1>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> so 4.05 KG though might be lighter out there! Note these are mostly geared
>>>> disk bikes!
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>> I that like a track bike they have no gears other than the single speed
>>> one's. I suppose that if you want superlight that is the only way to go.
>>> My steel Lemond weighed 8.8 kg and the Trek Madone weighed 8.1 kg,
>>>
>> I would be more interested in a ultra light hill climb bikes as light bikes
>> do feel great on hills at least up them! Track bikes more aero than weight
>> would seem, which is fine but not my thing.
>>
>> To be honest I’m not sure how much my bikes weigh the MTB being mid end is
>> likely to be mid pack for that sort of bike.
>>
>> The gravel bike has flat pedals and mid end stuff, not a huge difference I
>> think between it and the MTB in absolute terms i suspect.
>>
>> In essence for my general bikes it’s not a big deal for me personally.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
> I had a Look KG585 that weighed a little over 7 kg and while is climbed
> fine, It jumped around under me like a kangaroo. I got rid of it and never looked back
>

I’ve heard of E MTB suspension working better as more of its weight is
sprung vs unsprung though they seem fairly ungainly in some areas ie have
more mass to be muscled though terrain.

Roger Merriman

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 11:30:25 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:33:59 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:30:30 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> While I suppose you could make a dangerously light carbon fiber bike,
> >>>>> there is no pressure for it because of the UCI weight limit. I hear that
> >>>>> they don't have any weight limits in the GB hill climb championships I
> >>>>> have never seen any weights of the actual bikes.,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On the other hand, the Hour Record, Colnago built for Eddy
> >>>>> Merckx, ready to ride was 5.5 kg.s. Of course that was a track bike
> >>>>> without derailleurs and such, but that is still a damned light bike that
> >>>>> had steel handlebars and I believe they were still using steel rings and cogs.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Last years hill climb bikes or at least ones shown!
> >>>>
> >>>> <https://www.bikeradar.com/features/pro-bike/2022-hill-climb-bikes/?image=3&type=gallery&gallery=1>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> so 4.05 KG though might be lighter out there! Note these are mostly geared
> >>>> disk bikes!
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger Merriman
> >>> I that like a track bike they have no gears other than the single speed
> >>> one's. I suppose that if you want superlight that is the only way to go.
> >>> My steel Lemond weighed 8.8 kg and the Trek Madone weighed 8.1 kg,
> >>>
> >> I would be more interested in a ultra light hill climb bikes as light bikes
> >> do feel great on hills at least up them! Track bikes more aero than weight
> >> would seem, which is fine but not my thing.
> >>
> >> To be honest I’m not sure how much my bikes weigh the MTB being mid end is
> >> likely to be mid pack for that sort of bike.
> >>
> >> The gravel bike has flat pedals and mid end stuff, not a huge difference I
> >> think between it and the MTB in absolute terms i suspect.
> >>
> >> In essence for my general bikes it’s not a big deal for me personally.
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> > I had a Look KG585 that weighed a little over 7 kg and while is climbed
> > fine, It jumped around under me like a kangaroo. I got rid of it and never looked back
> >
> I’ve heard of E MTB suspension working better as more of its weight is
> sprung vs unsprung though they seem fairly ungainly in some areas ie have
> more mass to be muscled though terrain.
>
> Roger Merriman
Specialized has decided to use some salesman to design their latest gravel bike. Who needs engineers?

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/2023-specialized-sirrus-carbon/

I predict this will last barely for one year.

On 6/29/2023 4:50 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 11:30:25 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:33:59 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:30:30 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> While I suppose you could make a dangerously light carbon fiber bike,
>>>>>>> there is no pressure for it because of the UCI weight limit. I hear that
>>>>>>> they don't have any weight limits in the GB hill climb championships I
>>>>>>> have never seen any weights of the actual bikes.,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the other hand, the Hour Record, Colnago built for Eddy
>>>>>>> Merckx, ready to ride was 5.5 kg.s. Of course that was a track bike
>>>>>>> without derailleurs and such, but that is still a damned light bike that
>>>>>>> had steel handlebars and I believe they were still using steel rings and cogs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Last years hill climb bikes or at least ones shown!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.bikeradar.com/features/pro-bike/2022-hill-climb-bikes/?image=3&type=gallery&gallery=1>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so 4.05 KG though might be lighter out there! Note these are mostly geared
>>>>>> disk bikes!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>> I that like a track bike they have no gears other than the single speed
>>>>> one's. I suppose that if you want superlight that is the only way to go.
>>>>> My steel Lemond weighed 8.8 kg and the Trek Madone weighed 8.1 kg,
>>>>>
>>>> I would be more interested in a ultra light hill climb bikes as light bikes
>>>> do feel great on hills at least up them! Track bikes more aero than weight
>>>> would seem, which is fine but not my thing.
>>>>
>>>> To be honest I’m not sure how much my bikes weigh the MTB being mid end is
>>>> likely to be mid pack for that sort of bike.
>>>>
>>>> The gravel bike has flat pedals and mid end stuff, not a huge difference I
>>>> think between it and the MTB in absolute terms i suspect.
>>>>
>>>> In essence for my general bikes it’s not a big deal for me personally.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>> I had a Look KG585 that weighed a little over 7 kg and while is climbed
>>> fine, It jumped around under me like a kangaroo. I got rid of it and never looked back
>>>
>> I’ve heard of E MTB suspension working better as more of its weight is
>> sprung vs unsprung though they seem fairly ungainly in some areas ie have
>> more mass to be muscled though terrain.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
> Specialized has decided to use some salesman to design their latest gravel bike. Who needs engineers?
>
> https://www.bikeradar.com/news/2023-specialized-sirrus-carbon/
>
> I predict this will last barely for one year.
>

Specialized has been around for some 45 years (large data
experience) and I have to think their actuaries know more
about this than you do:

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/warranty

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 3:32:16 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/29/2023 4:50 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 11:30:25 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:33:59 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:30:30 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> While I suppose you could make a dangerously light carbon fiber bike,
> >>>>>>> there is no pressure for it because of the UCI weight limit. I hear that
> >>>>>>> they don't have any weight limits in the GB hill climb championships I
> >>>>>>> have never seen any weights of the actual bikes.,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On the other hand, the Hour Record, Colnago built for Eddy
> >>>>>>> Merckx, ready to ride was 5.5 kg.s. Of course that was a track bike
> >>>>>>> without derailleurs and such, but that is still a damned light bike that
> >>>>>>> had steel handlebars and I believe they were still using steel rings and cogs.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Last years hill climb bikes or at least ones shown!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> <https://www.bikeradar.com/features/pro-bike/2022-hill-climb-bikes/?image=3&type=gallery&gallery=1>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> so 4.05 KG though might be lighter out there! Note these are mostly geared
> >>>>>> disk bikes!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Roger Merriman
> >>>>> I that like a track bike they have no gears other than the single speed
> >>>>> one's. I suppose that if you want superlight that is the only way to go.
> >>>>> My steel Lemond weighed 8.8 kg and the Trek Madone weighed 8.1 kg,
> >>>>>
> >>>> I would be more interested in a ultra light hill climb bikes as light bikes
> >>>> do feel great on hills at least up them! Track bikes more aero than weight
> >>>> would seem, which is fine but not my thing.
> >>>>
> >>>> To be honest I’m not sure how much my bikes weigh the MTB being mid end is
> >>>> likely to be mid pack for that sort of bike.
> >>>>
> >>>> The gravel bike has flat pedals and mid end stuff, not a huge difference I
> >>>> think between it and the MTB in absolute terms i suspect.
> >>>>
> >>>> In essence for my general bikes it’s not a big deal for me personally.
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger Merriman
> >>> I had a Look KG585 that weighed a little over 7 kg and while is climbed
> >>> fine, It jumped around under me like a kangaroo. I got rid of it and never looked back
> >>>
> >> I’ve heard of E MTB suspension working better as more of its weight is
> >> sprung vs unsprung though they seem fairly ungainly in some areas ie have
> >> more mass to be muscled though terrain.
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> > Specialized has decided to use some salesman to design their latest gravel bike. Who needs engineers?
> >
> > https://www.bikeradar.com/news/2023-specialized-sirrus-carbon/
> >
> > I predict this will last barely for one year.
> >
> Specialized has been around for some 45 years (large data
> experience) and I have to think their actuaries know more
> about this than you do:
>
> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/warranty
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

You will note that the "elastomer suspension" lasted BARELY a year and it is disappeared. That "new" offering is probably the worst design I've ever seen. There is a reason that the triple triangle bicycle frame lasted for more than a hundred years. To make that into a design made to flex and that flexing actually push the frames apart is not a guess but absolute failure waiting to occur.

Specialized has been offering a "lifetime warranty" ONLY to match Trek. They are lucky that the people that buy the top end bikes which are prone to failure, also change them frequently enough that the warranty is renewed on a new bike and the older used failed bikes are not covered.

Specialized makes some decent bikes but they also make very bad designs to look like they're doing something "new" and "faster" when they are nothing of the sort and even their pro team sued them for supplying them with crap. Do you see Trek doing that?