Some are shutting down because of robbery and others due to
an increase in online shopping. Companies are losing $65 billion
per year due to shop lifting.
<https://www.dailywire.com/news/these-stores-are-closing-due-to-looting-and-lost-profits>

On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 10:23:34 PM UTC-5, dean...@gmail.com wrote:
> Some are shutting down because of robbery and others due to
> an increase in online shopping. Companies are losing $65 billion
> per year due to shop lifting.
> <https://www.dailywire.com/news/these-stores-are-closing-due-to-looting-and-lost-profits>

I wonder how much they lose from theft in the warehouse and theft in delivery?

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Sat, 25 Dec 2021 19:23:30 -0800 (PST), Dean Hoffman
<deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote:

> Some are shutting down because of robbery and others due to
>an increase in online shopping. Companies are losing $65 billion
>per year due to shop lifting.
><https://www.dailywire.com/news/these-stores-are-closing-due-to-looting-and-lost-profits>

I'd expect that more are shutting down because of Amazon.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On 12/25/2021 8:23 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> Some are shutting down because of robbery and others due to
> an increase in online shopping. Companies are losing $65 billion
> per year due to shop lifting.
> <https://www.dailywire.com/news/these-stores-are-closing-due-to-looting-and-lost-profits>

When we designed the "arcomatic" (automated, self-serve gas station),
we had an "island terminal" at which customers could pay for their
purchases (this long before gas pumps had integrated credit card readers
or bill validators).

The device was just a largish SBC with a (text!) display and keypad
and I/Os for the bill validator, card reader, network interface, etc.
When the "enclosure" arrived, it was fabricated from 1/4" thick steel
and larger than a refrigerator.

I chuckled thinking how "overkill" the solution -- surely a smaller
(less costly) box could have been designed!?

It was then pointed out to me that they had to guard against folks
ramming the enclosure (accidentally or intentionally) as it sat out
on the islands alongside the gas pumps.

It wasn't long after that when the evening news started having
stories of crash-and-grabs of (entire) ATMs, etc.

In hindsight, this was to be expected. I recall AT&T's "fortress"
phone being a common theft/hacking target. Virtually impregnable,
if you were interested in one, you physically would cut it out
of the booth and take it home intact!

[Thankfully, electric power was available in the booth so you
could power an electric saw to cut the support members!]

mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 16.39.39 UTC+1 skrev Don Y:
> On 12/25/2021 8:23 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> > Some are shutting down because of robbery and others due to
> > an increase in online shopping. Companies are losing $65 billion
> > per year due to shop lifting.
> > <https://www.dailywire.com/news/these-stores-are-closing-due-to-looting-and-lost-profits>
> When we designed the "arcomatic" (automated, self-serve gas station),
> we had an "island terminal" at which customers could pay for their
> purchases (this long before gas pumps had integrated credit card readers
> or bill validators).
>
> The device was just a largish SBC with a (text!) display and keypad
> and I/Os for the bill validator, card reader, network interface, etc.
> When the "enclosure" arrived, it was fabricated from 1/4" thick steel
> and larger than a refrigerator.
>
> I chuckled thinking how "overkill" the solution -- surely a smaller
> (less costly) box could have been designed!?
>
> It was then pointed out to me that they had to guard against folks
> ramming the enclosure (accidentally or intentionally) as it sat out
> on the islands alongside the gas pumps.
>
> It wasn't long after that when the evening news started having
> stories of crash-and-grabs of (entire) ATMs, etc.
>
> In hindsight, this was to be expected. I recall AT&T's "fortress"
> phone being a common theft/hacking target. Virtually impregnable,
> if you were interested in one, you physically would cut it out
> of the booth and take it home intact!
>
> [Thankfully, electric power was available in the booth so you
> could power an electric saw to cut the support members!]

https://youtu.be/VTe0cdxdSEo

On 12/27/2021 8:47 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 16.39.39 UTC+1 skrev Don Y:
>> On 12/25/2021 8:23 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>> Some are shutting down because of robbery and others due to
>>> an increase in online shopping. Companies are losing $65 billion
>>> per year due to shop lifting.
>>> <https://www.dailywire.com/news/these-stores-are-closing-due-to-looting-and-lost-profits>
>> When we designed the "arcomatic" (automated, self-serve gas station),
>> we had an "island terminal" at which customers could pay for their
>> purchases (this long before gas pumps had integrated credit card readers
>> or bill validators).
>>
>> The device was just a largish SBC with a (text!) display and keypad
>> and I/Os for the bill validator, card reader, network interface, etc.
>> When the "enclosure" arrived, it was fabricated from 1/4" thick steel
>> and larger than a refrigerator.
>>
>> I chuckled thinking how "overkill" the solution -- surely a smaller
>> (less costly) box could have been designed!?
>>
>> It was then pointed out to me that they had to guard against folks
>> ramming the enclosure (accidentally or intentionally) as it sat out
>> on the islands alongside the gas pumps.
>>
>> It wasn't long after that when the evening news started having
>> stories of crash-and-grabs of (entire) ATMs, etc.
>>
>> In hindsight, this was to be expected. I recall AT&T's "fortress"
>> phone being a common theft/hacking target. Virtually impregnable,
>> if you were interested in one, you physically would cut it out
>> of the booth and take it home intact!
>>
>> [Thankfully, electric power was available in the booth so you
>> could power an electric saw to cut the support members!]
>
> https://youtu.be/VTe0cdxdSEo

Yes, they've started relocating ATMs to the *interior* of stores
to make it that much harder to access them "after hours".

Brute force is hard to defend against (it is, typically, how
the military operates).

There's always a fine line between making this sort of thing
(e.g., a phone) easily accessible to cater to its intended
customer base vs. *too* easy for thieves to access.

Of course, the operator can also take steps to make such thefts
less profitable. E.g., pare down the amount of cash left
inside "after hours". But, that adds to servicing costs.

I'm not sure how the latest "mob thefts" will be countered
without dramatically affecting normal traffic flows in stores.

E.g., when I've had to visit secured facilities, there was
typically a "vestibule" that I'd find myself trapped in
after wanting access but before being *granted* access.
A guard monitoring on CCTV could opt to NOT admit me
(suspicion of forged credentials, etc.) and I'd effectively
be trapped there until "authorities" arrived.

I can't see how you can meter traffic into a retail
establishment, like this, though. Queuing to gain
entry to (and egress from) a business would likely be
off-putting to many customers.

mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 17.33.32 UTC+1 skrev Don Y:
> On 12/27/2021 8:47 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> > mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 16.39.39 UTC+1 skrev Don Y:
> >> On 12/25/2021 8:23 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> >>> Some are shutting down because of robbery and others due to
> >>> an increase in online shopping. Companies are losing $65 billion
> >>> per year due to shop lifting.
> >>> <https://www.dailywire.com/news/these-stores-are-closing-due-to-looting-and-lost-profits>
> >> When we designed the "arcomatic" (automated, self-serve gas station),
> >> we had an "island terminal" at which customers could pay for their
> >> purchases (this long before gas pumps had integrated credit card readers
> >> or bill validators).
> >>
> >> The device was just a largish SBC with a (text!) display and keypad
> >> and I/Os for the bill validator, card reader, network interface, etc.
> >> When the "enclosure" arrived, it was fabricated from 1/4" thick steel
> >> and larger than a refrigerator.
> >>
> >> I chuckled thinking how "overkill" the solution -- surely a smaller
> >> (less costly) box could have been designed!?
> >>
> >> It was then pointed out to me that they had to guard against folks
> >> ramming the enclosure (accidentally or intentionally) as it sat out
> >> on the islands alongside the gas pumps.
> >>
> >> It wasn't long after that when the evening news started having
> >> stories of crash-and-grabs of (entire) ATMs, etc.
> >>
> >> In hindsight, this was to be expected. I recall AT&T's "fortress"
> >> phone being a common theft/hacking target. Virtually impregnable,
> >> if you were interested in one, you physically would cut it out
> >> of the booth and take it home intact!
> >>
> >> [Thankfully, electric power was available in the booth so you
> >> could power an electric saw to cut the support members!]
> >
> > https://youtu.be/VTe0cdxdSEo
> Yes, they've started relocating ATMs to the *interior* of stores
> to make it that much harder to access them "after hours".
>
> Brute force is hard to defend against (it is, typically, how
> the military operates).
>
> There's always a fine line between making this sort of thing
> (e.g., a phone) easily accessible to cater to its intended
> customer base vs. *too* easy for thieves to access.
>
> Of course, the operator can also take steps to make such thefts
> less profitable. E.g., pare down the amount of cash left
> inside "after hours". But, that adds to servicing costs.

if the ATM is moved or broken into just dump red dye on the bills making them useless ..

On 12/27/2021 10:04 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 17.33.32 UTC+1 skrev Don Y:
>> On 12/27/2021 8:47 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
>>> mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 16.39.39 UTC+1 skrev Don Y:
>>>> On 12/25/2021 8:23 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>>>> Some are shutting down because of robbery and others due to
>>>>> an increase in online shopping. Companies are losing $65 billion
>>>>> per year due to shop lifting.
>>>>> <https://www.dailywire.com/news/these-stores-are-closing-due-to-looting-and-lost-profits>
>>>> When we designed the "arcomatic" (automated, self-serve gas station),
>>>> we had an "island terminal" at which customers could pay for their
>>>> purchases (this long before gas pumps had integrated credit card readers
>>>> or bill validators).
>>>>
>>>> The device was just a largish SBC with a (text!) display and keypad
>>>> and I/Os for the bill validator, card reader, network interface, etc.
>>>> When the "enclosure" arrived, it was fabricated from 1/4" thick steel
>>>> and larger than a refrigerator.
>>>>
>>>> I chuckled thinking how "overkill" the solution -- surely a smaller
>>>> (less costly) box could have been designed!?
>>>>
>>>> It was then pointed out to me that they had to guard against folks
>>>> ramming the enclosure (accidentally or intentionally) as it sat out
>>>> on the islands alongside the gas pumps.
>>>>
>>>> It wasn't long after that when the evening news started having
>>>> stories of crash-and-grabs of (entire) ATMs, etc.
>>>>
>>>> In hindsight, this was to be expected. I recall AT&T's "fortress"
>>>> phone being a common theft/hacking target. Virtually impregnable,
>>>> if you were interested in one, you physically would cut it out
>>>> of the booth and take it home intact!
>>>>
>>>> [Thankfully, electric power was available in the booth so you
>>>> could power an electric saw to cut the support members!]
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/VTe0cdxdSEo
>> Yes, they've started relocating ATMs to the *interior* of stores
>> to make it that much harder to access them "after hours".
>>
>> Brute force is hard to defend against (it is, typically, how
>> the military operates).
>>
>> There's always a fine line between making this sort of thing
>> (e.g., a phone) easily accessible to cater to its intended
>> customer base vs. *too* easy for thieves to access.
>>
>> Of course, the operator can also take steps to make such thefts
>> less profitable. E.g., pare down the amount of cash left
>> inside "after hours". But, that adds to servicing costs.
>
> if the ATM is moved or broken into just dump red dye on the bills making them useless ..

I don't know how bills are "packaged" inside the ATM.
Likely in a way that makes them convenient to count and dispense.

(it's different in a bill validator where all you want to do is *capture*
the bill)

I suspect you could embed a die packet that will stain the stack
of bills "from the side" to ensure all are tainted. But, that
mechanism would have to NOT require the cooperation of the staff that
loads the machine as it could be omitted/done incorrectly.

[Maybe if the bills came "prepackaged" from the bank?]

And, you would have to ensure would-be thieves understood that
this mechanism was in place (as well as ensuring that it would
function in the absence of power as a thief could arrange for
power to be out -- or, strike DURING a prolonged outage).

Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
folks still try to rob banks! Clearly, "the word" hasn't
gotten out sufficiently to deter them...

On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 11:31:27 AM UTC-6, Don Y wrote:
> On 12/27/2021 10:04 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> > mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 17.33.32 UTC+1 skrev Don Y:
> >> On 12/27/2021 8:47 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> >>> mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 16.39.39 UTC+1 skrev Don Y:
> >>>> On 12/25/2021 8:23 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> >>>>> Some are shutting down because of robbery and others due to
> >>>>> an increase in online shopping. Companies are losing $65 billion
> >>>>> per year due to shop lifting.
> >>>>> <https://www.dailywire.com/news/these-stores-are-closing-due-to-looting-and-lost-profits>
> >>>> When we designed the "arcomatic" (automated, self-serve gas station),
> >>>> we had an "island terminal" at which customers could pay for their
> >>>> purchases (this long before gas pumps had integrated credit card readers
> >>>> or bill validators).
> >>>>
> >>>> The device was just a largish SBC with a (text!) display and keypad
> >>>> and I/Os for the bill validator, card reader, network interface, etc.
> >>>> When the "enclosure" arrived, it was fabricated from 1/4" thick steel
> >>>> and larger than a refrigerator.
> >>>>
> >>>> I chuckled thinking how "overkill" the solution -- surely a smaller
> >>>> (less costly) box could have been designed!?
> >>>>
> >>>> It was then pointed out to me that they had to guard against folks
> >>>> ramming the enclosure (accidentally or intentionally) as it sat out
> >>>> on the islands alongside the gas pumps.
> >>>>
> >>>> It wasn't long after that when the evening news started having
> >>>> stories of crash-and-grabs of (entire) ATMs, etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> In hindsight, this was to be expected. I recall AT&T's "fortress"
> >>>> phone being a common theft/hacking target. Virtually impregnable,
> >>>> if you were interested in one, you physically would cut it out
> >>>> of the booth and take it home intact!
> >>>>
> >>>> [Thankfully, electric power was available in the booth so you
> >>>> could power an electric saw to cut the support members!]
> >>>
> >>> https://youtu.be/VTe0cdxdSEo
> >> Yes, they've started relocating ATMs to the *interior* of stores
> >> to make it that much harder to access them "after hours".
> >>
> >> Brute force is hard to defend against (it is, typically, how
> >> the military operates).
> >>
> >> There's always a fine line between making this sort of thing
> >> (e.g., a phone) easily accessible to cater to its intended
> >> customer base vs. *too* easy for thieves to access.
> >>
> >> Of course, the operator can also take steps to make such thefts
> >> less profitable. E.g., pare down the amount of cash left
> >> inside "after hours". But, that adds to servicing costs.
> >
> > if the ATM is moved or broken into just dump red dye on the bills making them useless ..
> I don't know how bills are "packaged" inside the ATM.
> Likely in a way that makes them convenient to count and dispense.
>
> (it's different in a bill validator where all you want to do is *capture*
> the bill)
>
> I suspect you could embed a die packet that will stain the stack
> of bills "from the side" to ensure all are tainted. But, that
> mechanism would have to NOT require the cooperation of the staff that
> loads the machine as it could be omitted/done incorrectly.
>
> [Maybe if the bills came "prepackaged" from the bank?]
>
> And, you would have to ensure would-be thieves understood that
> this mechanism was in place (as well as ensuring that it would
> function in the absence of power as a thief could arrange for
> power to be out -- or, strike DURING a prolonged outage).
>
> Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
> folks still try to rob banks! Clearly, "the word" hasn't
> gotten out sufficiently to deter them...

I've been watching the show The First Forty Eight. It follows homicide
detectives. One group is in Tulsa, OK and the other in New Orleans. One
of the first things they do is walk around to find any cameras that might
be on buildings around the scene.
It sounds like there are more homicides than last year in most of our big cities. It's
hard to understand the stupid things people kill for.

On 12/26/2021 12:34 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Dec 2021 19:23:30 -0800 (PST), Dean Hoffman
> <deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Some are shutting down because of robbery and others due to
>> an increase in online shopping. Companies are losing $65 billion
>> per year due to shop lifting.
>> <https://www.dailywire.com/news/these-stores-are-closing-due-to-looting-and-lost-profits>
>
> I'd expect that more are shutting down because of Amazon.
>

Sensible take from Mr. Larkin...has OP seen the prices for the other
crap at stores like CVS and Walgreens besides meds in cities like SF and
NYC and Boston? $15 USB cables that sell for $2 per on Amazon.

A lot of this junk that was looted would've never sold to be counted
towards profit in the first place.

On 12/25/2021 10:40 PM, Rick C wrote:
> On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 10:23:34 PM UTC-5, dean...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Some are shutting down because of robbery and others due to
>> an increase in online shopping. Companies are losing $65 billion
>> per year due to shop lifting.
>> <https://www.dailywire.com/news/these-stores-are-closing-due-to-looting-and-lost-profits>
>
> I wonder how much they lose from theft in the warehouse and theft in delivery?
>

Some, but retailers already treat their employees like criminals to the
greatest extent they can so whatever slips by is just a cost of doing
business.

On 12/27/2021 12:31 PM, Don Y wrote:
> On 12/27/2021 10:04 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
>> mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 17.33.32 UTC+1 skrev Don Y:
>>> On 12/27/2021 8:47 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
>>>> mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 16.39.39 UTC+1 skrev Don Y:
>>>>> On 12/25/2021 8:23 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>>>>> Some are shutting down because of robbery and others due to
>>>>>> an increase in online shopping. Companies are losing $65 billion
>>>>>> per year due to shop lifting.
>>>>>> <https://www.dailywire.com/news/these-stores-are-closing-due-to-looting-and-lost-profits>
>>>>>>
>>>>> When we designed the "arcomatic" (automated, self-serve gas station),
>>>>> we had an "island terminal" at which customers could pay for their
>>>>> purchases (this long before gas pumps had integrated credit card
>>>>> readers
>>>>> or bill validators).
>>>>>
>>>>> The device was just a largish SBC with a (text!) display and keypad
>>>>> and I/Os for the bill validator, card reader, network interface, etc.
>>>>> When the "enclosure" arrived, it was fabricated from 1/4" thick steel
>>>>> and larger than a refrigerator.
>>>>>
>>>>> I chuckled thinking how "overkill" the solution -- surely a smaller
>>>>> (less costly) box could have been designed!?
>>>>>
>>>>> It was then pointed out to me that they had to guard against folks
>>>>> ramming the enclosure (accidentally or intentionally) as it sat out
>>>>> on the islands alongside the gas pumps.
>>>>>
>>>>> It wasn't long after that when the evening news started having
>>>>> stories of crash-and-grabs of (entire) ATMs, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> In hindsight, this was to be expected. I recall AT&T's "fortress"
>>>>> phone being a common theft/hacking target. Virtually impregnable,
>>>>> if you were interested in one, you physically would cut it out
>>>>> of the booth and take it home intact!
>>>>>
>>>>> [Thankfully, electric power was available in the booth so you
>>>>> could power an electric saw to cut the support members!]
>>>>
>>>> https://youtu.be/VTe0cdxdSEo
>>> Yes, they've started relocating ATMs to the *interior* of stores
>>> to make it that much harder to access them "after hours".
>>>
>>> Brute force is hard to defend against (it is, typically, how
>>> the military operates).
>>>
>>> There's always a fine line between making this sort of thing
>>> (e.g., a phone) easily accessible to cater to its intended
>>> customer base vs. *too* easy for thieves to access.
>>>
>>> Of course, the operator can also take steps to make such thefts
>>> less profitable. E.g., pare down the amount of cash left
>>> inside "after hours". But, that adds to servicing costs.
>>
>> if the ATM is moved or broken into just dump red dye on the bills
>> making them useless ..
>
> I don't know how bills are "packaged" inside the ATM.
> Likely in a way that makes them convenient to count and dispense.
>
> (it's different in a bill validator where all you want to do is *capture*
> the bill)
>
> I suspect you could embed a die packet that will stain the stack
> of bills "from the side" to ensure all are tainted.  But, that
> mechanism would have to NOT require the cooperation of the staff that
> loads the machine as it could be omitted/done incorrectly.
>
> [Maybe if the bills came "prepackaged" from the bank?]
>
> And, you would have to ensure would-be thieves understood that
> this mechanism was in place (as well as ensuring that it would
> function in the absence of power as a thief could arrange for
> power to be out -- or, strike DURING a prolonged outage).
>
> Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
> folks still try to rob banks!  Clearly, "the word" hasn't
> gotten out sufficiently to deter them...

They think banks still keep large amounts of cash sitting around all the
time like Bonnie & Clyde days, when many bank branches in 2021 probably
don't have that much more readily-accessible currency on hand at any
particular time than the average large convenience store; the Brinks
truck does a couple runs a day to my local branch and I figure that is
mostly pulling cash out, not many go to a branch bank to do large cash
withdrawals, anymore.

I've tended to assume much of the jewelry you see in display cases in
jewelry stores in relatively insecure locations like shopping malls are
"display models" but I've never bought high-end jewelry from a place
like that, and it's not information I suppose any particular store gives
out to random people.

On 12/27/2021 10:47 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 11:31:27 AM UTC-6, Don Y wrote:
>> Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
>> folks still try to rob banks! Clearly, "the word" hasn't
>> gotten out sufficiently to deter them...
>
> I've been watching the show The First Forty Eight. It follows homicide
> detectives. One group is in Tulsa, OK and the other in New Orleans. One
> of the first things they do is walk around to find any cameras that might
> be on buildings around the scene.
> It sounds like there are more homicides than last year in most of our big cities. It's
> hard to understand the stupid things people kill for.

It's hard to understand *much* of human behavior!

Not taking a free vaccine -- but PAYING for a card that says you did!

Or, expecting to be treated with an unapproved medication -- yet
avoiding one that was intended for said treatment.

Cruelty to animals.

"Forgetting" a child in a hot car.

Not returning library books on time.

Parking in handicap spots (when not "entitled").

....

The list goes on and on.

There is some rationalization that desperation drives folks to some
behaviors. And, addictions.

Thankfully, most people don't have those problems...

On 12/27/2021 12:51 PM, bitrex wrote:
>> Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
>> folks still try to rob banks! Clearly, "the word" hasn't
>> gotten out sufficiently to deter them...
>
> They think banks still keep large amounts of cash sitting around all the time
> like Bonnie & Clyde days, when many bank branches in 2021 probably don't have
> that much more readily-accessible currency on hand at any particular time than
> the average large convenience store; the Brinks truck does a couple runs a day
> to my local branch and I figure that is mostly pulling cash out, not many go to
> a branch bank to do large cash withdrawals, anymore.

I imagine not many go to make large cash *deposits*, either!

When I use cash as a form of payment (esp for big ticket items)
it's almost as if they are afraid to handle it.

> I've tended to assume much of the jewelry you see in display cases in jewelry
> stores in relatively insecure locations like shopping malls are "display
> models" but I've never bought high-end jewelry from a place like that, and it's
> not information I suppose any particular store gives out to random people.

There are increasingly more common thefts of "other stuff". Cigarettes
being one "high value, low mass" item (a friend said a carton of smokes is
close to $90? That sounds high... why not just snort coke? :-/ )

You can get a feel for what stores consider as high theft (value) items
by seeing what they keep locked up. E.g., Ace tends to keep it's small
hand tools in a locked display case -- no doubt they would grow legs,
otherwise.

OTOH, I noticed Home Despot had gensets in a locked case. Do folks often
slip one under their shirt and waltz out of the store??!

On 12/27/2021 4:15 PM, Don Y wrote:
> On 12/27/2021 12:51 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>> Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
>>> folks still try to rob banks!  Clearly, "the word" hasn't
>>> gotten out sufficiently to deter them...
>>
>> They think banks still keep large amounts of cash sitting around all
>> the time like Bonnie & Clyde days, when many bank branches in 2021
>> probably don't have that much more readily-accessible currency on hand
>> at any particular time than the average large convenience store; the
>> Brinks truck does a couple runs a day to my local branch and I figure
>> that is mostly pulling cash out, not many go to a branch bank to do
>> large cash withdrawals, anymore.
>
> I imagine not many go to make large cash *deposits*, either!
>
> When I use cash as a form of payment (esp for big ticket items)
> it's almost as if they are afraid to handle it.
>
>> I've tended to assume much of the jewelry you see in display cases in
>> jewelry stores in relatively insecure locations like shopping malls
>> are "display models" but I've never bought high-end jewelry from a
>> place like that, and it's not information I suppose any particular
>> store gives out to random people.
>
> There are increasingly more common thefts of "other stuff".  Cigarettes
> being one "high value, low mass" item (a friend said a carton of smokes is
> close to $90?  That sounds high... why not just snort coke?  :-/ )

A friend's dad got nabbed bringing 40 cartons of smokes purchased in VA
into MD the penalty for a first offense is $150. per carton.

Filthy habit and it probably still didn't convince him to quit.

> You can get a feel for what stores consider as high theft (value) items
> by seeing what they keep locked up.  E.g., Ace tends to keep it's small
> hand tools in a locked display case -- no doubt they would grow legs,
> otherwise.
>
> OTOH, I noticed Home Despot had gensets in a locked case.  Do folks often
> slip one under their shirt and waltz out of the store??!

Someone who knew what to look for could probably strip any valuable
spare parts off all of them in a few minutes, like the batteries or air
filters, maybe. Put them up on eBay or Craigslist, "NOS."

On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:15:06 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

>On 12/27/2021 12:51 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>> Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
>>> folks still try to rob banks! Clearly, "the word" hasn't
>>> gotten out sufficiently to deter them...
>>
>> They think banks still keep large amounts of cash sitting around all the time
>> like Bonnie & Clyde days, when many bank branches in 2021 probably don't have
>> that much more readily-accessible currency on hand at any particular time than
>> the average large convenience store; the Brinks truck does a couple runs a day
>> to my local branch and I figure that is mostly pulling cash out, not many go to
>> a branch bank to do large cash withdrawals, anymore.
>
>I imagine not many go to make large cash *deposits*, either!
>
>When I use cash as a form of payment (esp for big ticket items)
>it's almost as if they are afraid to handle it.
>
>> I've tended to assume much of the jewelry you see in display cases in jewelry
>> stores in relatively insecure locations like shopping malls are "display
>> models" but I've never bought high-end jewelry from a place like that, and it's
>> not information I suppose any particular store gives out to random people.
>
>There are increasingly more common thefts of "other stuff". Cigarettes
>being one "high value, low mass" item (a friend said a carton of smokes is
>close to $90? That sounds high... why not just snort coke? :-/ )
>
>You can get a feel for what stores consider as high theft (value) items
>by seeing what they keep locked up. E.g., Ace tends to keep it's small
>hand tools in a locked display case -- no doubt they would grow legs,
>otherwise.
>
>OTOH, I noticed Home Despot had gensets in a locked case. Do folks often
>slip one under their shirt and waltz out of the store??!

There are videos of guys sticking big Dewalt table saws and such like
into carts and just walking/running out the door.

If the workers are told not to intervene then locking them up is one
way to reduce losses. They're also working on being able to remotely
brick them.

However, when you go into a store and all the wrenches and such like
are in locked cabinets it makes you want to not return to that
particular store.
--
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

On 12/27/2021 5:14 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 12/27/2021 4:15 PM, Don Y wrote:
>> On 12/27/2021 12:51 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>> Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
>>>> folks still try to rob banks!  Clearly, "the word" hasn't
>>>> gotten out sufficiently to deter them...
>>>
>>> They think banks still keep large amounts of cash sitting around all
>>> the time like Bonnie & Clyde days, when many bank branches in 2021
>>> probably don't have that much more readily-accessible currency on
>>> hand at any particular time than the average large convenience store;
>>> the Brinks truck does a couple runs a day to my local branch and I
>>> figure that is mostly pulling cash out, not many go to a branch bank
>>> to do large cash withdrawals, anymore.
>>
>> I imagine not many go to make large cash *deposits*, either!
>>
>> When I use cash as a form of payment (esp for big ticket items)
>> it's almost as if they are afraid to handle it.
>>
>>> I've tended to assume much of the jewelry you see in display cases in
>>> jewelry stores in relatively insecure locations like shopping malls
>>> are "display models" but I've never bought high-end jewelry from a
>>> place like that, and it's not information I suppose any particular
>>> store gives out to random people.
>>
>> There are increasingly more common thefts of "other stuff".  Cigarettes
>> being one "high value, low mass" item (a friend said a carton of
>> smokes is
>> close to $90?  That sounds high... why not just snort coke?  :-/ )
>
> A friend's dad got nabbed bringing 40 cartons of smokes purchased in VA
> into MD the penalty for a first offense is $150. per carton.
>
> Filthy habit and it probably still didn't convince him to quit.
>
>> You can get a feel for what stores consider as high theft (value) items
>> by seeing what they keep locked up.  E.g., Ace tends to keep it's small
>> hand tools in a locked display case -- no doubt they would grow legs,
>> otherwise.
>>
>> OTOH, I noticed Home Despot had gensets in a locked case.  Do folks often
>> slip one under their shirt and waltz out of the store??!
>
> Someone who knew what to look for could probably strip any valuable
> spare parts off all of them in a few minutes, like the batteries or air
> filters, maybe. Put them up on eBay or Craigslist, "NOS."
>

12V 10Ah lead acids are about 25 bucks new you could yoink a dozen of
those, toss them in a stroller and sell for a tidy profit; the alarm's
not gonna go off if you walk out with those vs. walking out with a dress
or CD.

On 12/27/2021 5:16 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:15:06 -0700, Don Y
> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 12/27/2021 12:51 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>> Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
>>>> folks still try to rob banks! Clearly, "the word" hasn't
>>>> gotten out sufficiently to deter them...
>>>
>>> They think banks still keep large amounts of cash sitting around all the time
>>> like Bonnie & Clyde days, when many bank branches in 2021 probably don't have
>>> that much more readily-accessible currency on hand at any particular time than
>>> the average large convenience store; the Brinks truck does a couple runs a day
>>> to my local branch and I figure that is mostly pulling cash out, not many go to
>>> a branch bank to do large cash withdrawals, anymore.
>>
>> I imagine not many go to make large cash *deposits*, either!
>>
>> When I use cash as a form of payment (esp for big ticket items)
>> it's almost as if they are afraid to handle it.
>>
>>> I've tended to assume much of the jewelry you see in display cases in jewelry
>>> stores in relatively insecure locations like shopping malls are "display
>>> models" but I've never bought high-end jewelry from a place like that, and it's
>>> not information I suppose any particular store gives out to random people.
>>
>> There are increasingly more common thefts of "other stuff". Cigarettes
>> being one "high value, low mass" item (a friend said a carton of smokes is
>> close to $90? That sounds high... why not just snort coke? :-/ )
>>
>> You can get a feel for what stores consider as high theft (value) items
>> by seeing what they keep locked up. E.g., Ace tends to keep it's small
>> hand tools in a locked display case -- no doubt they would grow legs,
>> otherwise.
>>
>> OTOH, I noticed Home Despot had gensets in a locked case. Do folks often
>> slip one under their shirt and waltz out of the store??!
>
> There are videos of guys sticking big Dewalt table saws and such like
> into carts and just walking/running out the door.
>
> If the workers are told not to intervene then locking them up is one
> way to reduce losses. They're also working on being able to remotely
> brick them.
>
> However, when you go into a store and all the wrenches and such like
> are in locked cabinets it makes you want to not return to that
> particular store.

Nah they only people the big-box retail stores tends to really want the
book thrown at if they're caught stealing is their own employees.
Management is unlikely to give an employee even a 1% cash reward if they
prevent $5000 worth of stuff from being stolen but God help that
employee if they steal $50.

This is a comfortable arrangement since many fired Americans in court
for stealing from their employer will tend to blame the guy who walked
out with $5000 scott free for their own problems in life and the fact
management prefers to throw the book at them instead.

The retail employee even had a 10% discount on up to $100 worth of
product a month AND a job, he didn't have any excuse as they figure it.

mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 23.38.06 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
> On 12/27/2021 5:16 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> > On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:15:06 -0700, Don Y
> > <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/27/2021 12:51 PM, bitrex wrote:
> >>>> Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
> >>>> folks still try to rob banks! Clearly, "the word" hasn't
> >>>> gotten out sufficiently to deter them...
> >>>
> >>> They think banks still keep large amounts of cash sitting around all the time
> >>> like Bonnie & Clyde days, when many bank branches in 2021 probably don't have
> >>> that much more readily-accessible currency on hand at any particular time than
> >>> the average large convenience store; the Brinks truck does a couple runs a day
> >>> to my local branch and I figure that is mostly pulling cash out, not many go to
> >>> a branch bank to do large cash withdrawals, anymore.
> >>
> >> I imagine not many go to make large cash *deposits*, either!
> >>
> >> When I use cash as a form of payment (esp for big ticket items)
> >> it's almost as if they are afraid to handle it.
> >>
> >>> I've tended to assume much of the jewelry you see in display cases in jewelry
> >>> stores in relatively insecure locations like shopping malls are "display
> >>> models" but I've never bought high-end jewelry from a place like that, and it's
> >>> not information I suppose any particular store gives out to random people.
> >>
> >> There are increasingly more common thefts of "other stuff". Cigarettes
> >> being one "high value, low mass" item (a friend said a carton of smokes is
> >> close to $90? That sounds high... why not just snort coke? :-/ )
> >>
> >> You can get a feel for what stores consider as high theft (value) items
> >> by seeing what they keep locked up. E.g., Ace tends to keep it's small
> >> hand tools in a locked display case -- no doubt they would grow legs,
> >> otherwise.
> >>
> >> OTOH, I noticed Home Despot had gensets in a locked case. Do folks often
> >> slip one under their shirt and waltz out of the store??!
> >
> > There are videos of guys sticking big Dewalt table saws and such like
> > into carts and just walking/running out the door.
> >
> > If the workers are told not to intervene then locking them up is one
> > way to reduce losses. They're also working on being able to remotely
> > brick them.
> >
> > However, when you go into a store and all the wrenches and such like
> > are in locked cabinets it makes you want to not return to that
> > particular store.
> Nah they only people the big-box retail stores tends to really want the
> book thrown at if they're caught stealing is their own employees.
> Management is unlikely to give an employee even a 1% cash reward if they
> prevent $5000 worth of stuff from being stolen but God help that
> employee if they steal $50.

they don't want to get stuck with the bill for an employee getting hurt
trying to stop a thief

On 12/27/2021 5:49 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 23.38.06 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
>> On 12/27/2021 5:16 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:15:06 -0700, Don Y
>>> <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/27/2021 12:51 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>>> Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
>>>>>> folks still try to rob banks! Clearly, "the word" hasn't
>>>>>> gotten out sufficiently to deter them...
>>>>>
>>>>> They think banks still keep large amounts of cash sitting around all the time
>>>>> like Bonnie & Clyde days, when many bank branches in 2021 probably don't have
>>>>> that much more readily-accessible currency on hand at any particular time than
>>>>> the average large convenience store; the Brinks truck does a couple runs a day
>>>>> to my local branch and I figure that is mostly pulling cash out, not many go to
>>>>> a branch bank to do large cash withdrawals, anymore.
>>>>
>>>> I imagine not many go to make large cash *deposits*, either!
>>>>
>>>> When I use cash as a form of payment (esp for big ticket items)
>>>> it's almost as if they are afraid to handle it.
>>>>
>>>>> I've tended to assume much of the jewelry you see in display cases in jewelry
>>>>> stores in relatively insecure locations like shopping malls are "display
>>>>> models" but I've never bought high-end jewelry from a place like that, and it's
>>>>> not information I suppose any particular store gives out to random people.
>>>>
>>>> There are increasingly more common thefts of "other stuff". Cigarettes
>>>> being one "high value, low mass" item (a friend said a carton of smokes is
>>>> close to $90? That sounds high... why not just snort coke? :-/ )
>>>>
>>>> You can get a feel for what stores consider as high theft (value) items
>>>> by seeing what they keep locked up. E.g., Ace tends to keep it's small
>>>> hand tools in a locked display case -- no doubt they would grow legs,
>>>> otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH, I noticed Home Despot had gensets in a locked case. Do folks often
>>>> slip one under their shirt and waltz out of the store??!
>>>
>>> There are videos of guys sticking big Dewalt table saws and such like
>>> into carts and just walking/running out the door.
>>>
>>> If the workers are told not to intervene then locking them up is one
>>> way to reduce losses. They're also working on being able to remotely
>>> brick them.
>>>
>>> However, when you go into a store and all the wrenches and such like
>>> are in locked cabinets it makes you want to not return to that
>>> particular store.
>> Nah they only people the big-box retail stores tends to really want the
>> book thrown at if they're caught stealing is their own employees.
>> Management is unlikely to give an employee even a 1% cash reward if they
>> prevent $5000 worth of stuff from being stolen but God help that
>> employee if they steal $50.
>
> they don't want to get stuck with the bill for an employee getting hurt
> trying to stop a thief
>
How much they've actually had to pay out in practice for employees
getting injured in this circumstance before whenever whatever chain made
a policy about it IDK, I bet it was asymptotically close to zero dollars.

Employers like Wal-Mart think employees at that level are stupid for
going "above and beyond" the minimum job requirements, they really do.
There is no advantage to it it doesn't improve your job security or
"career" prospects at all 99% of the time, and stupid employees do tend
to be safety risks in general.

tirsdag den 28. december 2021 kl. 00.08.46 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
> On 12/27/2021 5:49 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> > mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 23.38.06 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
> >> On 12/27/2021 5:16 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:15:06 -0700, Don Y
> >>> <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 12/27/2021 12:51 PM, bitrex wrote:
> >>>>>> Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
> >>>>>> folks still try to rob banks! Clearly, "the word" hasn't
> >>>>>> gotten out sufficiently to deter them...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They think banks still keep large amounts of cash sitting around all the time
> >>>>> like Bonnie & Clyde days, when many bank branches in 2021 probably don't have
> >>>>> that much more readily-accessible currency on hand at any particular time than
> >>>>> the average large convenience store; the Brinks truck does a couple runs a day
> >>>>> to my local branch and I figure that is mostly pulling cash out, not many go to
> >>>>> a branch bank to do large cash withdrawals, anymore.
> >>>>
> >>>> I imagine not many go to make large cash *deposits*, either!
> >>>>
> >>>> When I use cash as a form of payment (esp for big ticket items)
> >>>> it's almost as if they are afraid to handle it.
> >>>>
> >>>>> I've tended to assume much of the jewelry you see in display cases in jewelry
> >>>>> stores in relatively insecure locations like shopping malls are "display
> >>>>> models" but I've never bought high-end jewelry from a place like that, and it's
> >>>>> not information I suppose any particular store gives out to random people.
> >>>>
> >>>> There are increasingly more common thefts of "other stuff". Cigarettes
> >>>> being one "high value, low mass" item (a friend said a carton of smokes is
> >>>> close to $90? That sounds high... why not just snort coke? :-/ )
> >>>>
> >>>> You can get a feel for what stores consider as high theft (value) items
> >>>> by seeing what they keep locked up. E.g., Ace tends to keep it's small
> >>>> hand tools in a locked display case -- no doubt they would grow legs,
> >>>> otherwise.
> >>>>
> >>>> OTOH, I noticed Home Despot had gensets in a locked case. Do folks often
> >>>> slip one under their shirt and waltz out of the store??!
> >>>
> >>> There are videos of guys sticking big Dewalt table saws and such like
> >>> into carts and just walking/running out the door.
> >>>
> >>> If the workers are told not to intervene then locking them up is one
> >>> way to reduce losses. They're also working on being able to remotely
> >>> brick them.
> >>>
> >>> However, when you go into a store and all the wrenches and such like
> >>> are in locked cabinets it makes you want to not return to that
> >>> particular store.
> >> Nah they only people the big-box retail stores tends to really want the
> >> book thrown at if they're caught stealing is their own employees.
> >> Management is unlikely to give an employee even a 1% cash reward if they
> >> prevent $5000 worth of stuff from being stolen but God help that
> >> employee if they steal $50.
> >
> > they don't want to get stuck with the bill for an employee getting hurt
> > trying to stop a thief
> >
> How much they've actually had to pay out in practice for employees
> getting injured in this circumstance before whenever whatever chain made
> a policy about it IDK, I bet it was asymptotically close to zero dollars.

you don't have to pay out to realize that something is a risk of having to pay out

On 12/27/2021 6:16 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> tirsdag den 28. december 2021 kl. 00.08.46 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
>> On 12/27/2021 5:49 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
>>> mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 23.38.06 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
>>>> On 12/27/2021 5:16 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:15:06 -0700, Don Y
>>>>> <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/27/2021 12:51 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>>>>> Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
>>>>>>>> folks still try to rob banks! Clearly, "the word" hasn't
>>>>>>>> gotten out sufficiently to deter them...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They think banks still keep large amounts of cash sitting around all the time
>>>>>>> like Bonnie & Clyde days, when many bank branches in 2021 probably don't have
>>>>>>> that much more readily-accessible currency on hand at any particular time than
>>>>>>> the average large convenience store; the Brinks truck does a couple runs a day
>>>>>>> to my local branch and I figure that is mostly pulling cash out, not many go to
>>>>>>> a branch bank to do large cash withdrawals, anymore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I imagine not many go to make large cash *deposits*, either!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I use cash as a form of payment (esp for big ticket items)
>>>>>> it's almost as if they are afraid to handle it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've tended to assume much of the jewelry you see in display cases in jewelry
>>>>>>> stores in relatively insecure locations like shopping malls are "display
>>>>>>> models" but I've never bought high-end jewelry from a place like that, and it's
>>>>>>> not information I suppose any particular store gives out to random people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are increasingly more common thefts of "other stuff". Cigarettes
>>>>>> being one "high value, low mass" item (a friend said a carton of smokes is
>>>>>> close to $90? That sounds high... why not just snort coke? :-/ )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can get a feel for what stores consider as high theft (value) items
>>>>>> by seeing what they keep locked up. E.g., Ace tends to keep it's small
>>>>>> hand tools in a locked display case -- no doubt they would grow legs,
>>>>>> otherwise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OTOH, I noticed Home Despot had gensets in a locked case. Do folks often
>>>>>> slip one under their shirt and waltz out of the store??!
>>>>>
>>>>> There are videos of guys sticking big Dewalt table saws and such like
>>>>> into carts and just walking/running out the door.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the workers are told not to intervene then locking them up is one
>>>>> way to reduce losses. They're also working on being able to remotely
>>>>> brick them.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, when you go into a store and all the wrenches and such like
>>>>> are in locked cabinets it makes you want to not return to that
>>>>> particular store.
>>>> Nah they only people the big-box retail stores tends to really want the
>>>> book thrown at if they're caught stealing is their own employees.
>>>> Management is unlikely to give an employee even a 1% cash reward if they
>>>> prevent $5000 worth of stuff from being stolen but God help that
>>>> employee if they steal $50.
>>>
>>> they don't want to get stuck with the bill for an employee getting hurt
>>> trying to stop a thief
>>>
>> How much they've actually had to pay out in practice for employees
>> getting injured in this circumstance before whenever whatever chain made
>> a policy about it IDK, I bet it was asymptotically close to zero dollars.
>
> you don't have to pay out to realize that something is a risk of having to pay out
>

I think the risk is pretty small, most major chain retail employees are
smart enough to realize they don't get paid enough to physically engage
with criminals. The ones who aren't sometimes don't listen too good,
anyway. A company policy doesn't mean nobody can ever find you liable
for something.

I think in general they don't want employees going outside their zone of
responsibility for organizational reasons as much as potential liability
reasons. Amateur security services isn't what we pay you for, we have a
vastly overpaid store security department for efficiently harassing
paying customers and eating ding-dongs all day, and a whole local police
department dedicated to running make-work sting operations instead of
catching any real criminals.

On 12/27/2021 6:47 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 12/27/2021 6:16 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
>> tirsdag den 28. december 2021 kl. 00.08.46 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
>>> On 12/27/2021 5:49 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
>>>> mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 23.38.06 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
>>>>> On 12/27/2021 5:16 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:15:06 -0700, Don Y
>>>>>> <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/27/2021 12:51 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
>>>>>>>>> folks still try to rob banks! Clearly, "the word" hasn't
>>>>>>>>> gotten out sufficiently to deter them...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They think banks still keep large amounts of cash sitting around
>>>>>>>> all the time
>>>>>>>> like Bonnie & Clyde days, when many bank branches in 2021
>>>>>>>> probably don't have
>>>>>>>> that much more readily-accessible currency on hand at any
>>>>>>>> particular time than
>>>>>>>> the average large convenience store; the Brinks truck does a
>>>>>>>> couple runs a day
>>>>>>>> to my local branch and I figure that is mostly pulling cash out,
>>>>>>>> not many go to
>>>>>>>> a branch bank to do large cash withdrawals, anymore.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I imagine not many go to make large cash *deposits*, either!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I use cash as a form of payment (esp for big ticket items)
>>>>>>> it's almost as if they are afraid to handle it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've tended to assume much of the jewelry you see in display
>>>>>>>> cases in jewelry
>>>>>>>> stores in relatively insecure locations like shopping malls are
>>>>>>>> "display
>>>>>>>> models" but I've never bought high-end jewelry from a place like
>>>>>>>> that, and it's
>>>>>>>> not information I suppose any particular store gives out to
>>>>>>>> random people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are increasingly more common thefts of "other stuff".
>>>>>>> Cigarettes
>>>>>>> being one "high value, low mass" item (a friend said a carton of
>>>>>>> smokes is
>>>>>>> close to $90? That sounds high... why not just snort coke? :-/ )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can get a feel for what stores consider as high theft (value)
>>>>>>> items
>>>>>>> by seeing what they keep locked up. E.g., Ace tends to keep it's
>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>> hand tools in a locked display case -- no doubt they would grow
>>>>>>> legs,
>>>>>>> otherwise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OTOH, I noticed Home Despot had gensets in a locked case. Do
>>>>>>> folks often
>>>>>>> slip one under their shirt and waltz out of the store??!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are videos of guys sticking big Dewalt table saws and such like
>>>>>> into carts and just walking/running out the door.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the workers are told not to intervene then locking them up is one
>>>>>> way to reduce losses. They're also working on being able to remotely
>>>>>> brick them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, when you go into a store and all the wrenches and such like
>>>>>> are in locked cabinets it makes you want to not return to that
>>>>>> particular store.
>>>>> Nah they only people the big-box retail stores tends to really want
>>>>> the
>>>>> book thrown at if they're caught stealing is their own employees.
>>>>> Management is unlikely to give an employee even a 1% cash reward if
>>>>> they
>>>>> prevent $5000 worth of stuff from being stolen but God help that
>>>>> employee if they steal $50.
>>>>
>>>> they don't want to get stuck with the bill for an employee getting hurt
>>>> trying to stop a thief
>>>>
>>> How much they've actually had to pay out in practice for employees
>>> getting injured in this circumstance before whenever whatever chain made
>>> a policy about it IDK, I bet it was asymptotically close to zero
>>> dollars.
>>
>> you don't have to pay out to realize that something is a risk of
>> having to pay out
>>
>
> I think the risk is pretty small, most major chain retail employees are
> smart enough to realize they don't get paid enough to physically engage
> with criminals. The ones who aren't sometimes don't listen too good,
> anyway. A company policy doesn't mean nobody can ever find you liable
> for something

There's lots of stuff you can do other than jumping in a tackling
someone yourself. These store still aren't paying out bounties. Even the
postal service in the US pays bounties.

On 12/27/2021 5:49 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 23.38.06 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
>> On 12/27/2021 5:16 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:15:06 -0700, Don Y
>>> <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/27/2021 12:51 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>>> Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
>>>>>> folks still try to rob banks! Clearly, "the word" hasn't
>>>>>> gotten out sufficiently to deter them...
>>>>>
>>>>> They think banks still keep large amounts of cash sitting around all the time
>>>>> like Bonnie & Clyde days, when many bank branches in 2021 probably don't have
>>>>> that much more readily-accessible currency on hand at any particular time than
>>>>> the average large convenience store; the Brinks truck does a couple runs a day
>>>>> to my local branch and I figure that is mostly pulling cash out, not many go to
>>>>> a branch bank to do large cash withdrawals, anymore.
>>>>
>>>> I imagine not many go to make large cash *deposits*, either!
>>>>
>>>> When I use cash as a form of payment (esp for big ticket items)
>>>> it's almost as if they are afraid to handle it.
>>>>
>>>>> I've tended to assume much of the jewelry you see in display cases in jewelry
>>>>> stores in relatively insecure locations like shopping malls are "display
>>>>> models" but I've never bought high-end jewelry from a place like that, and it's
>>>>> not information I suppose any particular store gives out to random people.
>>>>
>>>> There are increasingly more common thefts of "other stuff". Cigarettes
>>>> being one "high value, low mass" item (a friend said a carton of smokes is
>>>> close to $90? That sounds high... why not just snort coke? :-/ )
>>>>
>>>> You can get a feel for what stores consider as high theft (value) items
>>>> by seeing what they keep locked up. E.g., Ace tends to keep it's small
>>>> hand tools in a locked display case -- no doubt they would grow legs,
>>>> otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH, I noticed Home Despot had gensets in a locked case. Do folks often
>>>> slip one under their shirt and waltz out of the store??!
>>>
>>> There are videos of guys sticking big Dewalt table saws and such like
>>> into carts and just walking/running out the door.
>>>
>>> If the workers are told not to intervene then locking them up is one
>>> way to reduce losses. They're also working on being able to remotely
>>> brick them.
>>>
>>> However, when you go into a store and all the wrenches and such like
>>> are in locked cabinets it makes you want to not return to that
>>> particular store.
>> Nah they only people the big-box retail stores tends to really want the
>> book thrown at if they're caught stealing is their own employees.
>> Management is unlikely to give an employee even a 1% cash reward if they
>> prevent $5000 worth of stuff from being stolen but God help that
>> employee if they steal $50.
>
> they don't want to get stuck with the bill for an employee getting hurt
> trying to stop a thief
>

They also have to consider that if there weren't an official policy that
every time store employees just let a shoplifter walk out (as would be
the inclination of many at $12 an hour to do) many conservatives in the
local area would write them a letter on their typewriter like:

"Dear Management. I was dismayed to see how lazy your employees were
with respect to apprehending shoplifters.

If I were an employee at that establishment I would pull out my Glock
and my AR and put 800 rounds into that shoplifter! I would then build a
nuclear bomb and go to the nearest low-income housing project and blow
it up with a nuclear bomb. I refuse to shop at your chain anymore until
you equip all employees with nuclear bombs to prevent merchandise
shrinkage."

so they just say "it's a liability issue" and those guys understand

On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 19:30:09 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

>On 12/27/2021 5:49 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
>> mandag den 27. december 2021 kl. 23.38.06 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
>>> On 12/27/2021 5:16 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:15:06 -0700, Don Y
>>>> <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/27/2021 12:51 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>>>> Capture/conviction rates for bank robberies are high -- yet
>>>>>>> folks still try to rob banks! Clearly, "the word" hasn't
>>>>>>> gotten out sufficiently to deter them...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They think banks still keep large amounts of cash sitting around all the time
>>>>>> like Bonnie & Clyde days, when many bank branches in 2021 probably don't have
>>>>>> that much more readily-accessible currency on hand at any particular time than
>>>>>> the average large convenience store; the Brinks truck does a couple runs a day
>>>>>> to my local branch and I figure that is mostly pulling cash out, not many go to
>>>>>> a branch bank to do large cash withdrawals, anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>> I imagine not many go to make large cash *deposits*, either!
>>>>>
>>>>> When I use cash as a form of payment (esp for big ticket items)
>>>>> it's almost as if they are afraid to handle it.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've tended to assume much of the jewelry you see in display cases in jewelry
>>>>>> stores in relatively insecure locations like shopping malls are "display
>>>>>> models" but I've never bought high-end jewelry from a place like that, and it's
>>>>>> not information I suppose any particular store gives out to random people.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are increasingly more common thefts of "other stuff". Cigarettes
>>>>> being one "high value, low mass" item (a friend said a carton of smokes is
>>>>> close to $90? That sounds high... why not just snort coke? :-/ )
>>>>>
>>>>> You can get a feel for what stores consider as high theft (value) items
>>>>> by seeing what they keep locked up. E.g., Ace tends to keep it's small
>>>>> hand tools in a locked display case -- no doubt they would grow legs,
>>>>> otherwise.
>>>>>
>>>>> OTOH, I noticed Home Despot had gensets in a locked case. Do folks often
>>>>> slip one under their shirt and waltz out of the store??!
>>>>
>>>> There are videos of guys sticking big Dewalt table saws and such like
>>>> into carts and just walking/running out the door.
>>>>
>>>> If the workers are told not to intervene then locking them up is one
>>>> way to reduce losses. They're also working on being able to remotely
>>>> brick them.
>>>>
>>>> However, when you go into a store and all the wrenches and such like
>>>> are in locked cabinets it makes you want to not return to that
>>>> particular store.
>>> Nah they only people the big-box retail stores tends to really want the
>>> book thrown at if they're caught stealing is their own employees.
>>> Management is unlikely to give an employee even a 1% cash reward if they
>>> prevent $5000 worth of stuff from being stolen but God help that
>>> employee if they steal $50.
>>
>> they don't want to get stuck with the bill for an employee getting hurt
>> trying to stop a thief
>>
>
>They also have to consider that if there weren't an official policy that
>every time store employees just let a shoplifter walk out (as would be
>the inclination of many at $12 an hour to do) many conservatives in the
>local area would write them a letter on their typewriter like:
>
>"Dear Management. I was dismayed to see how lazy your employees were
>with respect to apprehending shoplifters.
>
>If I were an employee at that establishment I would pull out my Glock
>and my AR and put 800 rounds into that shoplifter! I would then build a
>nuclear bomb and go to the nearest low-income housing project and blow
>it up with a nuclear bomb. I refuse to shop at your chain anymore until
>you equip all employees with nuclear bombs to prevent merchandise
>shrinkage."
>
>so they just say "it's a liability issue" and those guys understand

Why do you keep inventing people who don't exist, complete with
imaginary quotes, so that you can mock them?

That's a really weird compulsion.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon