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tech / sci.astro.amateur / This was printed 110 years ago!

SubjectAuthor
* This was printed 110 years ago!StarDust
+* Re: This was printed 110 years ago!palsing
|`* Re: This was printed 110 years ago!Anders Eklöf
| +- Re: This was printed 110 years ago!palsing
| +* Re: This was printed 110 years ago!palsing
| |`- Re: This was printed 110 years ago!Martin Brown
| +- Re: This was printed 110 years ago!Mikko
| `- Re: This was printed 110 years ago!Quadibloc
`- Re: This was printed 110 years ago!Quadibloc

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This was printed 110 years ago!

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Subject: This was printed 110 years ago!
From: csok...@gmail.com (StarDust)
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 by: StarDust - Wed, 17 Aug 2022 03:04 UTC

https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/299785667_2198698323637239_3094346465906486414_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=UZ_iD_IwRyAAX-HSYog&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT8tWV7HjDTig-gikXtjJNDn8JfwCeuLp7LPMNB7H69V6g&oe=6300BBAD

Hmm!
How, 7 billion tons of carbon dioxide comes from 2 billion tons of coal?
The oxygen adds weight?
I'm not a chemist!

Re: This was printed 110 years ago!

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Subject: Re: This was printed 110 years ago!
From: pnals...@gmail.com (palsing)
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 by: palsing - Wed, 17 Aug 2022 03:35 UTC

On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 8:04:37 PM UTC-7, StarDust wrote:
> https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/299785667_2198698323637239_3094346465906486414_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=UZ_iD_IwRyAAX-HSYog&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT8tWV7HjDTig-gikXtjJNDn8JfwCeuLp7LPMNB7H69V6g&oe=6300BBAD
>
> Hmm!
> How, 7 billion tons of carbon dioxide comes from 2 billion tons of coal?
> The oxygen adds weight?

> I'm not a chemist!

Obviously. When the carbon of coal (atomic weight 6) combines with the (2) oxygen atoms (atomic weight (8) each, the "new" atomic weight is (22)... a "lot" more than the carbon alone... which is "about 7"...

Re: This was printed 110 years ago!

<1pwtgxn.2kvck21jg2xj1N%andekl_no@saaf_spam.se>

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Subject: Re: This was printed 110 years ago!
From: andekl...@saaf_spam.se (Anders Eklöf)
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 by: Anders Eklöf - Wed, 17 Aug 2022 03:40 UTC

palsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 8:04:37 PM UTC-7, StarDust wrote:
> > https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/299785667_21986983236
> > 37239_3094346465906486414_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc
> > =UZ_iD_IwRyAAX-HSYog&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT8tWV7HjDTig-gikXt
> > jJNDn8JfwCeuLp7LPMNB7H69V6g&oe=6300BBAD
> >
> > Hmm!
> > How, 7 billion tons of carbon dioxide comes from 2 billion tons of coal?
> > The oxygen adds weight?
>
>
> > I'm not a chemist!
>
> Obviously. When the carbon of coal (atomic weight 6) combines with the (2)
> oxygen atoms (atomic weight (8) each, the "new" atomic weight is (22)...
> a "lot" more than the carbon alone... which is "about 7"...

Carbon, atomic weight 12
Oxygen, atomic weight 16

You got the atomic numbers, but the proportions are the same.

--
I recommend Macs to my friends, and Windows machines
to those whom I don't mind billing by the hour

Re: This was printed 110 years ago!

<4b31bf72-f247-4805-8b11-9166e81b1706n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: This was printed 110 years ago!
From: pnals...@gmail.com (palsing)
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 by: palsing - Wed, 17 Aug 2022 04:10 UTC

On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 8:40:29 PM UTC-7, Anders Eklöf wrote:
> palsing <pnal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 8:04:37 PM UTC-7, StarDust wrote:
> > > https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/299785667_21986983236
> > > 37239_3094346465906486414_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc
> > > =UZ_iD_IwRyAAX-HSYog&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT8tWV7HjDTig-gikXt
> > > jJNDn8JfwCeuLp7LPMNB7H69V6g&oe=6300BBAD
> > >
> > > Hmm!
> > > How, 7 billion tons of carbon dioxide comes from 2 billion tons of coal?
> > > The oxygen adds weight?
> >
> >
> > > I'm not a chemist!
> >
> > Obviously. When the carbon of coal (atomic weight 6) combines with the (2)
> > oxygen atoms (atomic weight (8) each, the "new" atomic weight is (22)....
> > a "lot" more than the carbon alone... which is "about 7"...
> Carbon, atomic weight 12
> Oxygen, atomic weight 16
>
> You got the atomic numbers, but the proportions are the same.
>
> --
> I recommend Macs to my friends, and Windows machines
> to those whom I don't mind billing by the hour

Yeah, atomic number...

Re: This was printed 110 years ago!

<de2d3971-678b-4e70-9c84-1a2d77ea6cd0n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: This was printed 110 years ago!
From: pnals...@gmail.com (palsing)
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 by: palsing - Wed, 17 Aug 2022 04:40 UTC

On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 9:33:51 PM UTC-7, RichA wrote:
> On Tuesday, 16 August 2022 at 23:40:29 UTC-4, Anders Eklöf wrote:
> > palsing <pnal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 8:04:37 PM UTC-7, StarDust wrote:
> > > > https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/299785667_21986983236
> > > > 37239_3094346465906486414_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc
> > > > =UZ_iD_IwRyAAX-HSYog&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT8tWV7HjDTig-gikXt
> > > > jJNDn8JfwCeuLp7LPMNB7H69V6g&oe=6300BBAD
> > > >
> > > > Hmm!
> > > > How, 7 billion tons of carbon dioxide comes from 2 billion tons of coal?
> > > > The oxygen adds weight?
> > >
> > >
> > > > I'm not a chemist!
> > >
> > > Obviously. When the carbon of coal (atomic weight 6) combines with the (2)
> > > oxygen atoms (atomic weight (8) each, the "new" atomic weight is (22)....
> > > a "lot" more than the carbon alone... which is "about 7"...
> > Carbon, atomic weight 12
> > Oxygen, atomic weight 16
> >
> > You got the atomic numbers, but the proportions are the same.

> Funny we don't see clouds made of carbon, given it's lighter than oxygen.

Oh, but we do...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2982172/

Re: This was printed 110 years ago!

<tdifj6$e0a6$1@dont-email.me>

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From: mikko.le...@iki.fi (Mikko)
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Subject: Re: This was printed 110 years ago!
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 by: Mikko - Wed, 17 Aug 2022 10:23 UTC

On 2022-08-17 04:33:50 +0000, RichA said:

> Funny we don't see clouds made of carbon, given it's lighter than oxygen.

We don't see clouds made of oxygen, either.

Carbon is not stable in air. It is oxydized to carbon monoxide.

Mikko

Re: This was printed 110 years ago!

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Subject: Re: This was printed 110 years ago!
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Wed, 17 Aug 2022 15:08 UTC

On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 10:33:51 PM UTC-6, RichA wrote:

> Funny we don't see clouds made of carbon, given it's lighter than oxygen.

That would make sense if carbon was a gas at room temperature.

Last time I looked, it's a solid.

John Savard

Re: This was printed 110 years ago!

<b34a561a-bc9a-45d3-8a01-d57ee06acb24n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: This was printed 110 years ago!
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Wed, 17 Aug 2022 15:18 UTC

On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 9:04:37 PM UTC-6, StarDust wrote:

> How, 7 billion tons of carbon dioxide comes from 2 billion tons of coal?
> The oxygen adds weight?
> I'm not a chemist!

Well, oxygen, being a material substance, certainly _has_ weight.

The most common isotope of Carbon is Carbon-12, and the most common
isotope of Oxygen is Oxygen-16. So if you have 12 ounces of carbon,
and burn it to produce carbon dioxide, you will get 12+16+16 ounces
of carbon dioxide, or 44 ounces of carbon dioxide (because neutrons
and protons both weigh about the same amount). 44 is more than 42
(six times seven) and 12 is six times two, so 2 tons of coal make a
tad more than 7 tons of carbon dioxide.

So they worked out the arithmetic right.

Incidentally, the carbon dioxide produced will take up the
same volume as the oxygen consumed, since the oxygen is
in the forms of molecules with two atoms of oxygen in each
one.

While solid substances can have densities with no relation
to their molecular weight, since the distance between atoms
can vary - what kind of crystal structure, or is it a glass - there's
a famous rule in chemistry that for a given pressure and
temperature, every gas has just about the same number of
molecules per unit of volume, so the density of a gas is
proportional to the weight of the molecules it's made out of.

So the oxygen adds weight to the carbon, but the carbon
does not add bulk to the oxygen.

John Savard

Re: This was printed 110 years ago!

<tdomnm$rso$1@gioia.aioe.org>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=8709&group=sci.astro.amateur#8709

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From: '''newsp...@nonad.co.uk (Martin Brown)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: This was printed 110 years ago!
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2022 20:02:14 +0100
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 by: Martin Brown - Fri, 19 Aug 2022 19:02 UTC

On 18/08/2022 06:05, RichA wrote:
> On Wednesday, 17 August 2022 at 00:40:12 UTC-4, palsing wrote:
>> On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 9:33:51 PM UTC-7, RichA wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 16 August 2022 at 23:40:29 UTC-4, Anders Eklöf wrote:
>>>> palsing <pnal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 8:04:37 PM UTC-7, StarDust wrote:
>>>>>> https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/299785667_21986983236
>>>>>> 37239_3094346465906486414_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc
>>>>>> =UZ_iD_IwRyAAX-HSYog&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT8tWV7HjDTig-gikXt
>>>>>> jJNDn8JfwCeuLp7LPMNB7H69V6g&oe=6300BBAD
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hmm!
>>>>>> How, 7 billion tons of carbon dioxide comes from 2 billion tons of coal?
>>>>>> The oxygen adds weight?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not a chemist!
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously. When the carbon of coal (atomic weight 6) combines with the (2)
>>>>> oxygen atoms (atomic weight (8) each, the "new" atomic weight is (22)...
>>>>> a "lot" more than the carbon alone... which is "about 7"...
>>>> Carbon, atomic weight 12
>>>> Oxygen, atomic weight 16
>>>>
>>>> You got the atomic numbers, but the proportions are the same.
>>> Funny we don't see clouds made of carbon, given it's lighter than oxygen.
>> Oh, but we do...
>>
>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2982172/
>
> Oh, in space, sure! We see clouds of alcohol!

Actually we saw carbon the form of Buckminster fullerenes aka an
allotrope of carbon in interstellar dust long before it was identified
on Earth. It was a mystery why its spectrum didn't match any known
compound. The crucial compound wasn't known at the time.

(but was lurking in trace amounts in soot - benzene extraction would
have found it - but no-one actually did that so it remained hidden)

The nearest fit to it was chimney soot though! And now we know why...

It is still a area of interest since the conditions in interstellar
space and stellar nurseries are more than a bit odd.

https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/decoding-interstellar-carbon/7295.article

A bit like Helium in the sun which was then shown by spectroscopy to be
identical to neutralised alpha particles here on Earth.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

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