Mass production of revolutionary computer memory moves closer with ULTRARAM TM on silicon wafers for the first time
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/01/220106143222.htm

paper
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/aelm.202101103

Looks interesting, 1000 years data retention.

On 07/01/2022 05:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> Mass production of revolutionary computer memory moves closer with ULTRARAM TM on silicon wafers for the first time
> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/01/220106143222.htm
>
> paper
> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/aelm.202101103
>
> Looks interesting, 1000 years data retention.

"Extrapolated"...

Such nonsense doesn't belong in a scientific paper - it's just there for
a headline-grabbing effect. Haven't these people heard of catastrophic
failure from unknown and unplanned-for causes? I'll bet in the 50s
people were talking about the "thousand-year germanium transistor which,
unlike valves, would never fail". Yeah - until tin whiskers appeared.

--

Jeff

On a sunny day (Fri, 7 Jan 2022 07:50:19 +0000) it happened Jeff Layman
<jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote in <sr8rbs$duf$1@dont-email.me>:

>On 07/01/2022 05:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> Mass production of revolutionary computer memory moves closer with ULTRARAM TM on silicon wafers for the first time
>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/01/220106143222.htm
>>
>> paper
>> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/aelm.202101103
>>
>> Looks interesting, 1000 years data retention.
>
>"Extrapolated"...
>
>Such nonsense doesn't belong in a scientific paper - it's just there for
>a headline-grabbing effect. Haven't these people heard of catastrophic
>failure from unknown and unplanned-for causes? I'll bet in the 50s
>people were talking about the "thousand-year germanium transistor which,
>unlike valves, would never fail". Yeah - until tin whiskers appeared.

Those tin whiskers are from the housing of the transistors.
My OC71 etc are in glass tubes (painted black) and still work fine.
You do not expect those guys to test for 1k years now do you?
All we do is based on extrapolations.
read the paper, looks like normal silly-con to me.

On 07/01/2022 08:29, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Fri, 7 Jan 2022 07:50:19 +0000) it happened Jeff Layman
> <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote in <sr8rbs$duf$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On 07/01/2022 05:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> Mass production of revolutionary computer memory moves closer with ULTRARAM TM on silicon wafers for the first time
>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/01/220106143222.htm
>>>
>>> paper
>>> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/aelm.202101103
>>>
>>> Looks interesting, 1000 years data retention.
>>
>> "Extrapolated"...
>>
>> Such nonsense doesn't belong in a scientific paper - it's just there for
>> a headline-grabbing effect. Haven't these people heard of catastrophic
>> failure from unknown and unplanned-for causes? I'll bet in the 50s
>> people were talking about the "thousand-year germanium transistor which,
>> unlike valves, would never fail". Yeah - until tin whiskers appeared.
>
> Those tin whiskers are from the housing of the transistors.
> My OC71 etc are in glass tubes (painted black) and still work fine.
> You do not expect those guys to test for 1k years now do you?

"Other whiskers are available", although somehow I don't expect glass
whiskers to become a problem:
<https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/other_whisker/index.htm>

> All we do is based on extrapolations

Not true. You can have absolute figures based on real-time testing. I
used to work in the pharmaceutical industry. The company released a new
product with a shelf-life of 2 years based on real-time data. It looked
good for at least 3 - 4 years based on extrapolation, but it very
unexpectedly, and unpredictably, failed testing at 27 months, dropping
from something like 96% of label to around 68%. The company and the
Regulatory Authorities were content to stay with a 2 year shelf-life.

> read the paper, looks like normal silly-con to me.

:-)

--

Jeff

On a sunny day (Fri, 7 Jan 2022 09:18:54 +0000) it happened Jeff Layman
<jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote in <sr90hv$d62$1@dont-email.me>:

>On 07/01/2022 08:29, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Fri, 7 Jan 2022 07:50:19 +0000) it happened Jeff Layman
>> <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote in <sr8rbs$duf$1@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>> On 07/01/2022 05:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> Mass production of revolutionary computer memory moves closer with ULTRARAM TM on silicon wafers for the first time
>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/01/220106143222.htm
>>>>
>>>> paper
>>>> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/aelm.202101103
>>>>
>>>> Looks interesting, 1000 years data retention.
>>>
>>> "Extrapolated"...
>>>
>>> Such nonsense doesn't belong in a scientific paper - it's just there for
>>> a headline-grabbing effect. Haven't these people heard of catastrophic
>>> failure from unknown and unplanned-for causes? I'll bet in the 50s
>>> people were talking about the "thousand-year germanium transistor which,
>>> unlike valves, would never fail". Yeah - until tin whiskers appeared.
>>
>> Those tin whiskers are from the housing of the transistors.
>> My OC71 etc are in glass tubes (painted black) and still work fine.
>> You do not expect those guys to test for 1k years now do you?
>
>"Other whiskers are available", although somehow I don't expect glass
>whiskers to become a problem:
><https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/other_whisker/index.htm>
>
>> All we do is based on extrapolations
>
>Not true. You can have absolute figures based on real-time testing. I
>used to work in the pharmaceutical industry. The company released a new
>product with a shelf-life of 2 years based on real-time data. It looked
>good for at least 3 - 4 years based on extrapolation, but it very
>unexpectedly, and unpredictably, failed testing at 27 months, dropping
>from something like 96% of label to around 68%. The company and the
>Regulatory Authorities were content to stay with a 2 year shelf-life.

Seems like the time covid jabs work, not at all for new variants,
But read what I wrote, 1 k years cannot be done in realtime, you need extrapolation.
The Farmaceutical Industrial Complex experiments with crap medicines on the masses,
from opiods to mRNA crap and thousands died from side effects or are permanently disabled.
The war criminal Faucy who facilitated the 'function enhancement' of the virus is their best friend,
protected and elevated by the corruot politicians to a god like status,
but is like somebody setting cars on fire so others can sell new ones.
All US work of course.
https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-sued-vaccine-safety-app-192649881.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS91cmw_ZXNyYz1zJnE9JnJjdD1qJnNhPVUmdXJsPWh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGbmV3cy55YWhvby5jb20lMkZjZGMtc3VlZC12YWNjaW5lLXNhZmV0eS1hcHAtMTkyNjQ5ODgxLmh0bWwmdmVkPTJhaFVLRXdqeXI3dkVySl8xQWhXbWdQMEhIWTNLQ0RvUUZub0VDQVFRQWcmdXNnPUFPdlZhdzFPOUFtdDl1c29CZXR4WTFQVTlxYVE&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAL7nDPxQ5UPL9fm1F1fsNnU37I8nAsVUkmHK0koisa-GktFWs--jb9Qy6abpfBFqOpc0VN31DPFAYP3H09Xrv5cLAc862OKgORb5x6HdRIY3c7XiIDyQ6aPLLih53uzyQgKRQviP3tfTVudjheDsBhwwPcntcndsIxoyZ5AXb0-2

On Fri, 07 Jan 2022 05:24:16 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Mass production of revolutionary computer memory moves closer with ULTRARAM TM on silicon wafers for the first time
> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/01/220106143222.htm
>
>paper
> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/aelm.202101103
>
>Looks interesting, 1000 years data retention.
>

Universities churn out revolutionary breakthroughs weekly, or maybe
daily. To the nearest 0.1%, none work out.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 10:20:41 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:

> Universities churn out revolutionary breakthroughs weekly, or maybe
> daily. To the nearest 0.1%, none work out.

Not a sensible description of what happens. Universities aren't claiming
'revolutionary' in general, just reporting progress. The dramatic descriptions come
from news reporters, and popularizers, and promoters, who are all
non-academic folk whose affiliations are with the entertainment press.

Drama, more than accuracy, is an asset for the entertainment press.

On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 12:12:15 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 10:20:41 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
>
>> Universities churn out revolutionary breakthroughs weekly, or maybe
>> daily. To the nearest 0.1%, none work out.
>
>Not a sensible description of what happens. Universities aren't claiming
>'revolutionary' in general, just reporting progress. The dramatic descriptions come
>from news reporters, and popularizers, and promoters, who are all
>non-academic folk whose affiliations are with the entertainment press.

Most universities have a press department that hypes these miracles.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 12:12:15 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 10:20:41 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
>>
>>> Universities churn out revolutionary breakthroughs weekly, or maybe
>>> daily. To the nearest 0.1%, none work out.
>>
>> Not a sensible description of what happens. Universities aren't claiming
>> 'revolutionary' in general, just reporting progress. The dramatic descriptions come
>>from news reporters, and popularizers, and promoters, who are all
>> non-academic folk whose affiliations are with the entertainment press.
>
> Most universities have a press department that hypes these miracles.
>

Yup. Plus the funding agencies went Hollywood about 1990. Remember
'nanotechnology'?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

On 1/7/2022 22:25, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 12:12:15 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 10:20:41 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
>>
>>> Universities churn out revolutionary breakthroughs weekly, or maybe
>>> daily. To the nearest 0.1%, none work out.
>>
>> Not a sensible description of what happens. Universities aren't claiming
>> 'revolutionary' in general, just reporting progress. The dramatic descriptions come
>>from news reporters, and popularizers, and promoters, who are all
>> non-academic folk whose affiliations are with the entertainment press.
>
> Most universities have a press department that hypes these miracles.
>

Well probably so but if this delivers not 1000 years (as extrapolated),
just 100 years of data retention it will be groundbreaking.
If (which is a biggish if of course) this works this will spell the
end of magnetic storage as we know it (and it will be a shame, today's
disks are really great pieces of engineering).

On Saturday, January 8, 2022 at 5:20:41 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Jan 2022 05:24:16 GMT, Jan Panteltje
> <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Mass production of revolutionary computer memory moves closer with ULTRARAM TM on silicon wafers for the first time
> > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/01/220106143222.htm
> >
> >paper
> > https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/aelm.202101103
> >
> >Looks interesting, 1000 years data retention.
> >
> Universities churn out revolutionary breakthroughs weekly, or maybe
> daily. To the nearest 0.1%, none work out.

Nobody sane pays any attention to what the university publicity puffs claim.

When Mouser has stocks of the revolutionary new product, it can become interesting.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On a sunny day (Fri, 07 Jan 2022 10:20:30 -0800) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
<t01htg1ik93cpn7eilidi1mugc4dtvb58f@4ax.com>:

>On Fri, 07 Jan 2022 05:24:16 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Mass production of revolutionary computer memory moves closer with ULTRARAM TM on silicon wafers for the first time
>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/01/220106143222.htm
>>
>>paper
>> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/aelm.202101103
>>
>>Looks interesting, 1000 years data retention.
>>
>
>Universities churn out revolutionary breakthroughs weekly, or maybe
>daily. To the nearest 0.1%, none work out.

The pictures in the paper of the silly-con look very doable to me.
Sure we will have to wait for it to be in the local shop.

Same for the 1000% better battery.
And the kwantuum computah.

But things do move.

Amazing what you can get on an SDcard these days.

On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 15:53:03 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>John Larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 12:12:15 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 10:20:41 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Universities churn out revolutionary breakthroughs weekly, or maybe
>>>> daily. To the nearest 0.1%, none work out.
>>>
>>> Not a sensible description of what happens. Universities aren't claiming
>>> 'revolutionary' in general, just reporting progress. The dramatic descriptions come
>>>from news reporters, and popularizers, and promoters, who are all
>>> non-academic folk whose affiliations are with the entertainment press.
>>
>> Most universities have a press department that hypes these miracles.
>>
>
>Yup. Plus the funding agencies went Hollywood about 1990. Remember
>'nanotechnology'?

Do I! I did get a free trip to London and Oxford, and some worthless
stock shares, out of what turned out to be a nanotech scam.
Tomographic atom probes.

It was worth it. Oxford is magical.

>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 23:08:44 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
wrote:

>On 1/7/2022 22:25, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 12:12:15 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 10:20:41 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Universities churn out revolutionary breakthroughs weekly, or maybe
>>>> daily. To the nearest 0.1%, none work out.
>>>
>>> Not a sensible description of what happens. Universities aren't claiming
>>> 'revolutionary' in general, just reporting progress. The dramatic descriptions come
>>>from news reporters, and popularizers, and promoters, who are all
>>> non-academic folk whose affiliations are with the entertainment press.
>>
>> Most universities have a press department that hypes these miracles.
>>
>
>Well probably so but if this delivers not 1000 years (as extrapolated),
>just 100 years of data retention it will be groundbreaking.
>If (which is a biggish if of course) this works this will spell the
>end of magnetic storage as we know it (and it will be a shame, today's
>disks are really great pieces of engineering).

Hard drives are great. But keep backups. RAID is good too.

There are semiconductor storage chips that are (somehow) rated for
10,000 years retention. A usb memory stick in a freezer will probably
do that.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 3:26:07 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 12:12:15 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 10:20:41 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
> >
> >> Universities churn out revolutionary breakthroughs weekly, or maybe
> >> daily. To the nearest 0.1%, none work out.
> >
> >Not a sensible description of what happens. Universities aren't claiming
> >'revolutionary' in general, just reporting progress. The dramatic descriptions come
> >from news reporters, and popularizers, and promoters, who are all
> >non-academic folk whose affiliations are with the entertainment press.
> Most universities have a press department that hypes these miracles.

It's funny watching how this guy thinks. In this case he creates a straw man to criticize, even though he doesn't point out a single one, including the one responsible for this article.

Some people live unhappy lives and feel the need to create excuses for that.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 08/01/22 16:34, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> It was worth it. Oxford is magical.

Cambridge is better :)

On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 16:49:50 +0000, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>On 08/01/22 16:34, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> It was worth it. Oxford is magical.
>
>Cambridge is better :)

I remember walking along the Cam river past that crooked peer's house.
Nice town, nice University.

--
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

On Saturday, 8 January 2022 at 16:49:56 UTC, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 08/01/22 16:34, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > It was worth it. Oxford is magical.
> Cambridge is better :)
DipCompSci + CUUEG?
John

On Saturday, 8 January 2022 at 17:05:05 UTC, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 16:49:50 +0000, Tom Gardner
> <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >On 08/01/22 16:34, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> It was worth it. Oxford is magical.
> >
> >Cambridge is better :)
> I remember walking along the Cam river past that crooked peer's house.
Grantchester, I presume?
> Nice town, nice University.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Spehro Pefhany

On 1/8/2022 18:38, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 23:08:44 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/7/2022 22:25, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 12:12:15 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 10:20:41 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Universities churn out revolutionary breakthroughs weekly, or maybe
>>>>> daily. To the nearest 0.1%, none work out.
>>>>
>>>> Not a sensible description of what happens. Universities aren't claiming
>>>> 'revolutionary' in general, just reporting progress. The dramatic descriptions come
>>> >from news reporters, and popularizers, and promoters, who are all
>>>> non-academic folk whose affiliations are with the entertainment press.
>>>
>>> Most universities have a press department that hypes these miracles.
>>>
>>
>> Well probably so but if this delivers not 1000 years (as extrapolated),
>> just 100 years of data retention it will be groundbreaking.
>> If (which is a biggish if of course) this works this will spell the
>> end of magnetic storage as we know it (and it will be a shame, today's
>> disks are really great pieces of engineering).
>
> Hard drives are great. But keep backups. RAID is good too.

I backup on DVD-s, apart from more than one HDD (and more than one
partition on these). In the 80-s, when all I had were 8" floppies
on the least reliable drives I have seen (sort of a Bulgarian clone
of some I think)
I learnt the lesson that a single backup is not enough...
I am saying this with my fingers crossed of course, you never know.

>
> There are semiconductor storage chips that are (somehow) rated for
> 10,000 years retention. A usb memory stick in a freezer will probably
> do that.
>

Somehow I can't make myself trust these tiny charges. Not that I don't
rely on them, I use flash and I did use eproms etc. all of my life
while designing systems but here I am.

On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 19:44:14 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
wrote:

>On 1/8/2022 18:38, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 23:08:44 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/7/2022 22:25, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 12:12:15 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 10:20:41 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Universities churn out revolutionary breakthroughs weekly, or maybe
>>>>>> daily. To the nearest 0.1%, none work out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a sensible description of what happens. Universities aren't claiming
>>>>> 'revolutionary' in general, just reporting progress. The dramatic descriptions come
>>>> >from news reporters, and popularizers, and promoters, who are all
>>>>> non-academic folk whose affiliations are with the entertainment press.
>>>>
>>>> Most universities have a press department that hypes these miracles.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well probably so but if this delivers not 1000 years (as extrapolated),
>>> just 100 years of data retention it will be groundbreaking.
>>> If (which is a biggish if of course) this works this will spell the
>>> end of magnetic storage as we know it (and it will be a shame, today's
>>> disks are really great pieces of engineering).
>>
>> Hard drives are great. But keep backups. RAID is good too.
>
>I backup on DVD-s, apart from more than one HDD (and more than one
>partition on these). In the 80-s, when all I had were 8" floppies
>on the least reliable drives I have seen (sort of a Bulgarian clone
>of some I think)
>I learnt the lesson that a single backup is not enough...
>I am saying this with my fingers crossed of course, you never know.

We dump all the company server files onto a fresh USB hard drive,
every two months. Those are treated as write-once devices, never to be
written to and probably never to be even connected to a computer
again. A 2 Tbyte drive costs around $60 now.

There are basically no floppy drives around any more. I wonder how
long USB ports will appear on PCs, until we go all wireless. Probably
a long time.

>
>>
>> There are semiconductor storage chips that are (somehow) rated for
>> 10,000 years retention. A usb memory stick in a freezer will probably
>> do that.
>>
>
>Somehow I can't make myself trust these tiny charges. Not that I don't
>rely on them, I use flash and I did use eproms etc. all of my life
>while designing systems but here I am.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On 1/8/2022 20:23, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 19:44:14 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/8/2022 18:38, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 23:08:44 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/7/2022 22:25, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 12:12:15 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 10:20:41 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Universities churn out revolutionary breakthroughs weekly, or maybe
>>>>>>> daily. To the nearest 0.1%, none work out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not a sensible description of what happens. Universities aren't claiming
>>>>>> 'revolutionary' in general, just reporting progress. The dramatic descriptions come
>>>>> >from news reporters, and popularizers, and promoters, who are all
>>>>>> non-academic folk whose affiliations are with the entertainment press.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most universities have a press department that hypes these miracles.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well probably so but if this delivers not 1000 years (as extrapolated),
>>>> just 100 years of data retention it will be groundbreaking.
>>>> If (which is a biggish if of course) this works this will spell the
>>>> end of magnetic storage as we know it (and it will be a shame, today's
>>>> disks are really great pieces of engineering).
>>>
>>> Hard drives are great. But keep backups. RAID is good too.
>>
>> I backup on DVD-s, apart from more than one HDD (and more than one
>> partition on these). In the 80-s, when all I had were 8" floppies
>> on the least reliable drives I have seen (sort of a Bulgarian clone
>> of some I think)
>> I learnt the lesson that a single backup is not enough...
>> I am saying this with my fingers crossed of course, you never know.
>
> We dump all the company server files onto a fresh USB hard drive,
> every two months. Those are treated as write-once devices, never to be
> written to and probably never to be even connected to a computer
> again. A 2 Tbyte drive costs around $60 now.
>

Our "serious" data (i.e. designs, sources etc.) is on dps machines only
and a backup still fits on a DVD (would have no chance to do so if we
were using outside design and programming tools).
The USB HDDs are nice, we have several full of films and tv-shows
we thought we might re-watch (and practically never did/do.... but who
knows what is around the corner).
The photo archive has grown larger than a dvd, it goes on a few bluray
disks and on some of the usb HDD-s, plus some of it going to my
dps hdd-s.
I don't back the dps images to usb drives mainly due to a policy
"no access to our designs for any alien OS", not that I have been
that fixated on this but I managed to maintain it for decades so
why now drop it.

> There are basically no floppy drives around any more. I wonder how
> long USB ports will appear on PCs, until we go all wireless. Probably
> a long time.

The last time I accessed some of our floppies was some 10-15 years
ago as I moved them to image files under dps (I also have an emulation
of the old 6809 based machine which used these floppies).
Interestingly some 10-20 year old floppies were readable but any attempt
to write to them was damaging the sector write was attempted to.

On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 11:36:25 PM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Fri, 07 Jan 2022 10:20:30 -0800) it happened John Larkin
> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
> <t01htg1ik93cpn7ei...@4ax.com>:
> >On Fri, 07 Jan 2022 05:24:16 GMT, Jan Panteltje
> ><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Mass production of revolutionary computer memory moves closer with ULTRARAM TM on silicon wafers for the first time

> >> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/aelm.202101103
> >>
> >>Looks interesting, 1000 years data retention.

> The pictures in the paper of the silly-con look very doable to me.
> Sure we will have to wait for it to be in the local shop.

To entrust our data to it, we have to wait for stocking distributors; to pony up
investment, opportunity will arrive sooner.

The silicon parts are do-able, it's the OTHER exotic materials in the mix that are bothersome;
nano-sheets of indium arsenide and gallium antimonide and aluminum antimonide, and no internal strains
or cracks allowed, for a few gigabytes of data, will have to compete with DVD-R variants
for cost (unlikely this decade) and write speed (needs work) and packing/storing/retrieving
in some variant filing system (that, seems like it could happen).

Compared to flash, the size of bits is huge, and the process layers other than the silicon foundation
are relatively unknown territory.

On a sunny day (Sat, 8 Jan 2022 12:05:23 -0800 (PST)) it happened whit3rd
<whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
<5fdfcfcf-9e1d-4acd-85a1-06c6c23f1c4dn@googlegroups.com>:

>On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 11:36:25 PM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Fri, 07 Jan 2022 10:20:30 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
>> <t01htg1ik93cpn7ei...@4ax.com>:
>> >On Fri, 07 Jan 2022 05:24:16 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>> ><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Mass production of revolutionary computer memory moves closer with ULTRARAM TM on silicon wafers for the first time
>
>> >> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/aelm.202101103
>> >>
>> >>Looks interesting, 1000 years data retention.
>
>> The pictures in the paper of the silly-con look very doable to me.
>> Sure we will have to wait for it to be in the local shop.
>
>To entrust our data to it, we have to wait for stocking distributors; to pony up
>investment, opportunity will arrive sooner.
>
>The silicon parts are do-able, it's the OTHER exotic materials in the mix that are bothersome;
>nano-sheets of indium arsenide and gallium antimonide and aluminum antimonide, and no internal strains
>or cracks allowed, for a few gigabytes of data, will have to compete with DVD-R variants
>for cost (unlikely this decade) and write speed (needs work) and packing/storing/retrieving
>in some variant filing system (that, seems like it could happen).

Good point

>Compared to flash, the size of bits is huge, and the process layers other than the silicon foundation
>are relatively unknown territory.

Yes, for now I have backups on DVD / Bluray, USB harddisks (2) and USB FLASH.
Also some nice stuff on M-DISC (using an LG DVD burner), supposed to last a long time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC
My advice with exactly one thousand DVDs in an alu box now: keep those stored in the absolute dark.
It is the same as with photography, exposure time * light intensity will kill your data.
In a day if on the bookshelf in a transparent plastic box in the sun.
Oldest CD-R discs now 20 years or more and still readable.
http://panteltje.com/pub/CD_box_binnenkant_IXIMG_0549.JPG