Since I stumbled across a Ridley Helium for very close to nothing I bought it. The bad par5t is that like all of the modern racing bikes it is set up exclusively for electronic shifting and that weird 40 mm thread-less bottom bracket.

The frame made entirely from carbon fiber weighs nearly nothing but by the time everything is put on it I would think it will weight around 16 lbs. Now I am not a fan of carbon fiber but since cycling is my hobby, I will finish the bike off. All of the parts are new and should have at least a 5 year lifespan.

It is irritating that all of my electronic shifting stuff is sold off and I have to replace it, but that is the way hobbies go.

It is strange that the smaller tapered fork bearings are very rare now - instead of a common size, they are so over-sized that you have to wonder exactly what went on in the designers mind if anything. Continuing to increase the size of a headset very soon reaches a point where you are adding weight rather than increasing strength.

There is no way to make a carbon fiber steering tube reliable at 1 1/2" and paper thin but that is what they are doing, The fork steering tube has reached the state of being paper thin. This cannot put up with normal wear and tear on the fork for very long and people talking about their bikes breaking after 2 years aren't a peculiarity but a fact of life.

Electronic shifting is another matter. The shifting is better and far more accurate, It doesn't miss a gear or get half way between like in manual shifting, but come on - plugging in your bicycle? Properly set up, electronic shifting is perfect. But remember that it is only perfect because there are so many gears on the bike that it makes manual shifting difficult to design at best. Come on - other than professional racers who the hell needs 12 or 13 cogs in the back? Useful gears ended at perhaps 9 and the average rider really shifts over most of the 12 speed gears.

Being old a weak now, I use more gears than most, but Joe Pretend Racer, really needs no more than 9 or 10 on very hilly courses.

Greg Lemond implied that the present speed of the peloton is because the few strong riders are so much faster than other people that they are using electric motor assist or using drugs. He said that there is a sweet spot at around 100 rpm at which the human body develops the most power and if you see people pedaling much faster or slower than that something is up.

Which set me to thinking. One time I was riding up a hill past the windmills in our Altamont Pass. The wind was blowing like hell and at one spot it caught my bike, I stepped off and the bike was blown out horizontal with me holding the top tube. I was the last one in the group but the group was not far ahead and when I caught up with them they wanted to turn around. Mind you, there was only 1/2 mile to where we would turn downwind and go over Patterson Pass. The wind was so strong that it frightened even the best riders. So we turned around. The fast guys rapidly disappeared on the downwind. I could not remember the rather complicated course that they had led me through but I was aware that all of the roads went through Tracy. So I continued and got my cadence up to 140 finally. Because I cut some of their course off I got back to the start at Tracy before everyone else. But I was not putting much power into the pedals at that cadence but just keeping up with the bike so that I had some control.

Think of it like I did a week or so ago - I hit 61,5 mph with a compact crank setup. That is NO control over the bike other than steering. Through the turns I was passing cars and the wind coming off of them made control tricky at best. This is one of the reasons that I have slowed down so much - I commonly went almost 70 descending mountain roads (using a 53 - 12) and even though they really shouldn't, cars would pass me. Or try. Watching a car spin out and nearly go over a cliff gives them a better sense of safety. Watching them pull over and let you past may be gratifying but riding that fast means one slip-up and you're waiting for the ambulance to arrive. That's not really a sport then is it?

We are sport riders and not professional racers. At some point your good sense overrules your careless attitude. And that's a good thing.

I can hardly wait to get the Ridley together so I can weigh it and take it out on a climbing ride. Hopefully it will handle better than the Look KG585.. Tapping on the layup it appears to be solid so I can keep it around for a long time since all of the parts will be new. getting new framesets that aren't disk is pretty cheap

On 8/7/2023 2:13 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> Since I stumbled across a Ridley Helium for very close to nothing I bought it. The bad par5t is that like all of the modern racing bikes it is set up exclusively for electronic shifting and that weird 40 mm thread-less bottom bracket.
>
> The frame made entirely from carbon fiber weighs nearly nothing but by the time everything is put on it I would think it will weight around 16 lbs. Now I am not a fan of carbon fiber but since cycling is my hobby, I will finish the bike off. All of the parts are new and should have at least a 5 year lifespan.
>
> It is irritating that all of my electronic shifting stuff is sold off and I have to replace it, but that is the way hobbies go.

Not for most people.

> It is strange that the smaller tapered fork bearings are very rare now - instead of a common size, they are so over-sized that you have to wonder exactly what went on in the designers mind if anything. Continuing to increase the size of a headset very soon reaches a point where you are adding weight rather than increasing strength...

This sounds like everything you hate in a bike. Why did you buy it??

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 1:58:11 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/7/2023 2:13 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > Since I stumbled across a Ridley Helium for very close to nothing I bought it. The bad par5t is that like all of the modern racing bikes it is set up exclusively for electronic shifting and that weird 40 mm thread-less bottom bracket.
> >
> > The frame made entirely from carbon fiber weighs nearly nothing but by the time everything is put on it I would think it will weight around 16 lbs.. Now I am not a fan of carbon fiber but since cycling is my hobby, I will finish the bike off. All of the parts are new and should have at least a 5 year lifespan.
> >
> > It is irritating that all of my electronic shifting stuff is sold off and I have to replace it, but that is the way hobbies go.
> Not for most people.
>
> > It is strange that the smaller tapered fork bearings are very rare now - instead of a common size, they are so over-sized that you have to wonder exactly what went on in the designers mind if anything. Continuing to increase the size of a headset very soon reaches a point where you are adding weight rather than increasing strength...
>
> This sounds like everything you hate in a bike. Why did you buy it??
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Frank, why don't you come out and admit it - you don't have any money to have a real hobby. That you have enough to live comfortably is more the better. But perhaps you should stop complaining that other people can do things you can't and never could.

On 8/7/2023 5:28 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 1:58:11 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 8/7/2023 2:13 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> Since I stumbled across a Ridley Helium for very close to nothing I bought it. The bad par5t is that like all of the modern racing bikes it is set up exclusively for electronic shifting and that weird 40 mm thread-less bottom bracket.
>>>
>>> The frame made entirely from carbon fiber weighs nearly nothing but by the time everything is put on it I would think it will weight around 16 lbs. Now I am not a fan of carbon fiber but since cycling is my hobby, I will finish the bike off. All of the parts are new and should have at least a 5 year lifespan.
>>>
>>> It is irritating that all of my electronic shifting stuff is sold off and I have to replace it, but that is the way hobbies go.
>> Not for most people.
>>
>>> It is strange that the smaller tapered fork bearings are very rare now - instead of a common size, they are so over-sized that you have to wonder exactly what went on in the designers mind if anything. Continuing to increase the size of a headset very soon reaches a point where you are adding weight rather than increasing strength...
>>
>> This sounds like everything you hate in a bike. Why did you buy it??
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> Frank, why don't you come out and admit it - you don't have any money to have a real hobby. That you have enough to live comfortably is more the better. But perhaps you should stop complaining that other people can do things you can't and never could.

Tom, I'm _very_ secure financially. I'm sure I could buy a dozen of
those bikes. But that's irrelevant.

I'm just trying to understand why you bought a bike that sounds like it
violates most of what you've been posting here. It really seems like
compulsive behavior.

How expensive is therapy? It may be a better buy in the long run.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 8:13:15 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> Since I stumbled across a Ridley Helium for very close to nothing I bought it. The bad par5t is that like all of the modern racing bikes it is set up exclusively for electronic shifting and that weird 40 mm thread-less bottom bracket.
>
> The frame made entirely from carbon fiber weighs nearly nothing but by the time everything is put on it I would think it will weight around 16 lbs. Now I am not a fan of carbon fiber but since cycling is my hobby, I will finish the bike off. All of the parts are new and should have at least a 5 year lifespan.
>
> It is irritating that all of my electronic shifting stuff is sold off and I have to replace it, but that is the way hobbies go.
>
> It is strange that the smaller tapered fork bearings are very rare now - instead of a common size, they are so over-sized that you have to wonder exactly what went on in the designers mind if anything. Continuing to increase the size of a headset very soon reaches a point where you are adding weight rather than increasing strength.
>
> There is no way to make a carbon fiber steering tube reliable at 1 1/2" and paper thin but that is what they are doing, The fork steering tube has reached the state of being paper thin. This cannot put up with normal wear and tear on the fork for very long and people talking about their bikes breaking after 2 years aren't a peculiarity but a fact of life.
>
> Electronic shifting is another matter. The shifting is better and far more accurate, It doesn't miss a gear or get half way between like in manual shifting, but come on - plugging in your bicycle? Properly set up, electronic shifting is perfect. But remember that it is only perfect because there are so many gears on the bike that it makes manual shifting difficult to design at best. Come on - other than professional racers who the hell needs 12 or 13 cogs in the back? Useful gears ended at perhaps 9 and the average rider really shifts over most of the 12 speed gears.
>
> Being old a weak now, I use more gears than most, but Joe Pretend Racer, really needs no more than 9 or 10 on very hilly courses.
>
> Greg Lemond implied that the present speed of the peloton is because the few strong riders are so much faster than other people that they are using electric motor assist or using drugs. He said that there is a sweet spot at around 100 rpm at which the human body develops the most power and if you see people pedaling much faster or slower than that something is up.
>
> Which set me to thinking. One time I was riding up a hill past the windmills in our Altamont Pass. The wind was blowing like hell and at one spot it caught my bike, I stepped off and the bike was blown out horizontal with me holding the top tube. I was the last one in the group but the group was not far ahead and when I caught up with them they wanted to turn around. Mind you, there was only 1/2 mile to where we would turn downwind and go over Patterson Pass. The wind was so strong that it frightened even the best riders. So we turned around. The fast guys rapidly disappeared on the downwind.. I could not remember the rather complicated course that they had led me through but I was aware that all of the roads went through Tracy. So I continued and got my cadence up to 140 finally. Because I cut some of their course off I got back to the start at Tracy before everyone else. But I was not putting much power into the pedals at that cadence but just keeping up with the bike so that I had some control.
>
> Think of it like I did a week or so ago - I hit 61,5 mph with a compact crank setup. That is NO control over the bike other than steering. Through the turns I was passing cars and the wind coming off of them made control tricky at best. This is one of the reasons that I have slowed down so much - I commonly went almost 70 descending mountain roads (using a 53 - 12) and even though they really shouldn't, cars would pass me. Or try. Watching a car spin out and nearly go over a cliff gives them a better sense of safety. Watching them pull over and let you past may be gratifying but riding that fast means one slip-up and you're waiting for the ambulance to arrive. That's not really a sport then is it?
>
> We are sport riders and not professional racers. At some point your good sense overrules your careless attitude. And that's a good thing.
>
> I can hardly wait to get the Ridley together so I can weigh it and take it out on a climbing ride. Hopefully it will handle better than the Look KG585. Tapping on the layup it appears to be solid so I can keep it around for a long time since all of the parts will be new. getting new framesets that aren't disk is pretty cheap

Did you change your opinion about CF and Di2 (again) and what does this mean for your opinions in the future about other matters?

Lou

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 11:37:30 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 8:13:15 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > Since I stumbled across a Ridley Helium for very close to nothing I bought it. The bad par5t is that like all of the modern racing bikes it is set up exclusively for electronic shifting and that weird 40 mm thread-less bottom bracket.
> >
> > The frame made entirely from carbon fiber weighs nearly nothing but by the time everything is put on it I would think it will weight around 16 lbs.. Now I am not a fan of carbon fiber but since cycling is my hobby, I will finish the bike off. All of the parts are new and should have at least a 5 year lifespan.
> >
> > It is irritating that all of my electronic shifting stuff is sold off and I have to replace it, but that is the way hobbies go.
> >
> > It is strange that the smaller tapered fork bearings are very rare now - instead of a common size, they are so over-sized that you have to wonder exactly what went on in the designers mind if anything. Continuing to increase the size of a headset very soon reaches a point where you are adding weight rather than increasing strength.
> >
> > There is no way to make a carbon fiber steering tube reliable at 1 1/2" and paper thin but that is what they are doing, The fork steering tube has reached the state of being paper thin. This cannot put up with normal wear and tear on the fork for very long and people talking about their bikes breaking after 2 years aren't a peculiarity but a fact of life.
> >
> > Electronic shifting is another matter. The shifting is better and far more accurate, It doesn't miss a gear or get half way between like in manual shifting, but come on - plugging in your bicycle? Properly set up, electronic shifting is perfect. But remember that it is only perfect because there are so many gears on the bike that it makes manual shifting difficult to design at best. Come on - other than professional racers who the hell needs 12 or 13 cogs in the back? Useful gears ended at perhaps 9 and the average rider really shifts over most of the 12 speed gears.
> >
> > Being old a weak now, I use more gears than most, but Joe Pretend Racer, really needs no more than 9 or 10 on very hilly courses.
> >
> > Greg Lemond implied that the present speed of the peloton is because the few strong riders are so much faster than other people that they are using electric motor assist or using drugs. He said that there is a sweet spot at around 100 rpm at which the human body develops the most power and if you see people pedaling much faster or slower than that something is up.
> >
> > Which set me to thinking. One time I was riding up a hill past the windmills in our Altamont Pass. The wind was blowing like hell and at one spot it caught my bike, I stepped off and the bike was blown out horizontal with me holding the top tube. I was the last one in the group but the group was not far ahead and when I caught up with them they wanted to turn around. Mind you, there was only 1/2 mile to where we would turn downwind and go over Patterson Pass. The wind was so strong that it frightened even the best riders. So we turned around. The fast guys rapidly disappeared on the downwind. I could not remember the rather complicated course that they had led me through but I was aware that all of the roads went through Tracy. So I continued and got my cadence up to 140 finally. Because I cut some of their course off I got back to the start at Tracy before everyone else. But I was not putting much power into the pedals at that cadence but just keeping up with the bike so that I had some control.
> >
> > Think of it like I did a week or so ago - I hit 61,5 mph with a compact crank setup. That is NO control over the bike other than steering. Through the turns I was passing cars and the wind coming off of them made control tricky at best. This is one of the reasons that I have slowed down so much - I commonly went almost 70 descending mountain roads (using a 53 - 12) and even though they really shouldn't, cars would pass me. Or try. Watching a car spin out and nearly go over a cliff gives them a better sense of safety.. Watching them pull over and let you past may be gratifying but riding that fast means one slip-up and you're waiting for the ambulance to arrive. That's not really a sport then is it?
> >
> > We are sport riders and not professional racers. At some point your good sense overrules your careless attitude. And that's a good thing.
> >
> > I can hardly wait to get the Ridley together so I can weigh it and take it out on a climbing ride. Hopefully it will handle better than the Look KG585. Tapping on the layup it appears to be solid so I can keep it around for a long time since all of the parts will be new. getting new framesets that aren't disk is pretty cheap
> Did you change your opinion about CF and Di2 (again) and what does this mean for your opinions in the future about other matters?
>
> Lou

Do you mean that you suddenly think that I've changed my mind about carbon fiber bikes having a limited lifespan? No I haven't. But the frame and fork are new from the factory. How old is yours?

Do you think that I've lost my distaste for plugging a bicycle in? No, but the the resale value of the bike with Di2 is much higher than one with manual shifting. What's more. aside from people who believe that they ride like pro's and so should have disk brakes, most people do not like the constant drag of disk brakes and prefer rim brakes. I know, you don/t have draggy disks but I think that you have a hearing impairment.

On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 11:13:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>The frame made entirely from carbon fiber weighs nearly nothing but by the time everything is put on it I would think it will weight around 16 lbs. Now I am not a fan of carbon fiber but since cycling is my hobby, I will finish the bike off. All of the parts are new and should have at least a 5 year lifespan.

Did you change your opinion about the dangers carbon fiber bicycles?
Is your Ridley Helium new or used?

(07/22/2016)
"Danger From Carbon Fiber Bikes"
<https://www.twospoke.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.17594/>
"Apparently, ALL carbon fiber bike frames, regardless of manufacturer
and warranty, are good for only TWO YEARS, after that they can break
and cause serious injury or even cost you your life."

"On the way back to Castro Valley, my friend Tom Kunich (who was also
riding a full carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill."

I thought that the crash which caused your concusion was in Dec 2009.
From the above article, it would seem like it happend in July 2016. Is
SLTom992 the same person as Tom Kunich? From the article, it would
seem that they are two different people, both Colagno C40 owners, both
crashing within 5 days of each other. That seems like an amazing
coincidence. You might want to clarify the dates and untangle the
identities.

Incidentally, the Ridley helium has a maximum rider weight of 95kg
(209lbs). How close are you to the limit?
<https://www.bikeradar.com/features/the-ridley-helium-slx-is-the-lightweight-race-bike-of-your-dreams/>
"Unsurprisingly, such a lightweight frameset has a rider weight limit
of 95kg."

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 4:12:16 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 11:37:30 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 8:13:15 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > Since I stumbled across a Ridley Helium for very close to nothing I bought it. The bad par5t is that like all of the modern racing bikes it is set up exclusively for electronic shifting and that weird 40 mm thread-less bottom bracket.
> > >
> > > The frame made entirely from carbon fiber weighs nearly nothing but by the time everything is put on it I would think it will weight around 16 lbs. Now I am not a fan of carbon fiber but since cycling is my hobby, I will finish the bike off. All of the parts are new and should have at least a 5 year lifespan.
> > >
> > > It is irritating that all of my electronic shifting stuff is sold off and I have to replace it, but that is the way hobbies go.
> > >
> > > It is strange that the smaller tapered fork bearings are very rare now - instead of a common size, they are so over-sized that you have to wonder exactly what went on in the designers mind if anything. Continuing to increase the size of a headset very soon reaches a point where you are adding weight rather than increasing strength.
> > >
> > > There is no way to make a carbon fiber steering tube reliable at 1 1/2" and paper thin but that is what they are doing, The fork steering tube has reached the state of being paper thin. This cannot put up with normal wear and tear on the fork for very long and people talking about their bikes breaking after 2 years aren't a peculiarity but a fact of life.
> > >
> > > Electronic shifting is another matter. The shifting is better and far more accurate, It doesn't miss a gear or get half way between like in manual shifting, but come on - plugging in your bicycle? Properly set up, electronic shifting is perfect. But remember that it is only perfect because there are so many gears on the bike that it makes manual shifting difficult to design at best. Come on - other than professional racers who the hell needs 12 or 13 cogs in the back? Useful gears ended at perhaps 9 and the average rider really shifts over most of the 12 speed gears.
> > >
> > > Being old a weak now, I use more gears than most, but Joe Pretend Racer, really needs no more than 9 or 10 on very hilly courses.
> > >
> > > Greg Lemond implied that the present speed of the peloton is because the few strong riders are so much faster than other people that they are using electric motor assist or using drugs. He said that there is a sweet spot at around 100 rpm at which the human body develops the most power and if you see people pedaling much faster or slower than that something is up.
> > >
> > > Which set me to thinking. One time I was riding up a hill past the windmills in our Altamont Pass. The wind was blowing like hell and at one spot it caught my bike, I stepped off and the bike was blown out horizontal with me holding the top tube. I was the last one in the group but the group was not far ahead and when I caught up with them they wanted to turn around. Mind you, there was only 1/2 mile to where we would turn downwind and go over Patterson Pass. The wind was so strong that it frightened even the best riders. So we turned around. The fast guys rapidly disappeared on the downwind. I could not remember the rather complicated course that they had led me through but I was aware that all of the roads went through Tracy. So I continued and got my cadence up to 140 finally. Because I cut some of their course off I got back to the start at Tracy before everyone else. But I was not putting much power into the pedals at that cadence but just keeping up with the bike so that I had some control.
> > >
> > > Think of it like I did a week or so ago - I hit 61,5 mph with a compact crank setup. That is NO control over the bike other than steering. Through the turns I was passing cars and the wind coming off of them made control tricky at best. This is one of the reasons that I have slowed down so much - I commonly went almost 70 descending mountain roads (using a 53 - 12) and even though they really shouldn't, cars would pass me. Or try. Watching a car spin out and nearly go over a cliff gives them a better sense of safety. Watching them pull over and let you past may be gratifying but riding that fast means one slip-up and you're waiting for the ambulance to arrive. That's not really a sport then is it?
> > >
> > > We are sport riders and not professional racers. At some point your good sense overrules your careless attitude. And that's a good thing.
> > >
> > > I can hardly wait to get the Ridley together so I can weigh it and take it out on a climbing ride. Hopefully it will handle better than the Look KG585. Tapping on the layup it appears to be solid so I can keep it around for a long time since all of the parts will be new. getting new framesets that aren't disk is pretty cheap
> > Did you change your opinion about CF and Di2 (again) and what does this mean for your opinions in the future about other matters?
> >
> > Lou
> Do you mean that you suddenly think that I've changed my mind about carbon fiber bikes having a limited lifespan? No I haven't. But the frame and fork are new from the factory. How old is yours?
>
> Do you think that I've lost my distaste for plugging a bicycle in? No, but the the resale value of the bike with Di2 is much higher than one with manual shifting. What's more. aside from people who believe that they ride like pro's and so should have disk brakes, most people do not like the constant drag of disk brakes and prefer rim brakes. I know, you don/t have draggy disks but I think that you have a hearing impairment.

Don’t mind me I don’t take your opinion about the lifetime of CF frames serious. I hope you make sure that the frame wasn’t in some kind of storage for more than two years, or doesn’t that count. Anyway I hope you discard that frame after two years otherwise you don’t practice what you preach and don’t dare to sell it to anyone else after two years. I will be testing your claim that Campagnolo brakepads for CF rims (the red-black ones) will brake as good as rim brakes on aluminum rims. I replaced the original Zipp pads (actually Swisstop) on my aerobike with these:

https://www.bike-components.de/en/Campagnolo/Carbon-Cartridge-Brake-Pads-for-Shimano-p50469/?o=400001-red-universal

They needed replacement anyway. I will report back.

Lou

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 4:12:16 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 11:37:30 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 8:13:15 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > Since I stumbled across a Ridley Helium for very close to nothing I bought it. The bad par5t is that like all of the modern racing bikes it is set up exclusively for electronic shifting and that weird 40 mm thread-less bottom bracket.
> > > >
> > > > The frame made entirely from carbon fiber weighs nearly nothing but by the time everything is put on it I would think it will weight around 16 lbs. Now I am not a fan of carbon fiber but since cycling is my hobby, I will finish the bike off. All of the parts are new and should have at least a 5 year lifespan.
> > > >
> > > > It is irritating that all of my electronic shifting stuff is sold off and I have to replace it, but that is the way hobbies go.
> > > >
> > > > It is strange that the smaller tapered fork bearings are very rare now - instead of a common size, they are so over-sized that you have to wonder exactly what went on in the designers mind if anything. Continuing to increase the size of a headset very soon reaches a point where you are adding weight rather than increasing strength.
> > > >
> > > > There is no way to make a carbon fiber steering tube reliable at 1 1/2" and paper thin but that is what they are doing, The fork steering tube has reached the state of being paper thin. This cannot put up with normal wear and tear on the fork for very long and people talking about their bikes breaking after 2 years aren't a peculiarity but a fact of life.
> > > >
> > > > Electronic shifting is another matter. The shifting is better and far more accurate, It doesn't miss a gear or get half way between like in manual shifting, but come on - plugging in your bicycle? Properly set up, electronic shifting is perfect. But remember that it is only perfect because there are so many gears on the bike that it makes manual shifting difficult to design at best. Come on - other than professional racers who the hell needs 12 or 13 cogs in the back? Useful gears ended at perhaps 9 and the average rider really shifts over most of the 12 speed gears.
> > > >
> > > > Being old a weak now, I use more gears than most, but Joe Pretend Racer, really needs no more than 9 or 10 on very hilly courses.
> > > >
> > > > Greg Lemond implied that the present speed of the peloton is because the few strong riders are so much faster than other people that they are using electric motor assist or using drugs. He said that there is a sweet spot at around 100 rpm at which the human body develops the most power and if you see people pedaling much faster or slower than that something is up.
> > > >
> > > > Which set me to thinking. One time I was riding up a hill past the windmills in our Altamont Pass. The wind was blowing like hell and at one spot it caught my bike, I stepped off and the bike was blown out horizontal with me holding the top tube. I was the last one in the group but the group was not far ahead and when I caught up with them they wanted to turn around. Mind you, there was only 1/2 mile to where we would turn downwind and go over Patterson Pass. The wind was so strong that it frightened even the best riders. So we turned around. The fast guys rapidly disappeared on the downwind. I could not remember the rather complicated course that they had led me through but I was aware that all of the roads went through Tracy. So I continued and got my cadence up to 140 finally. Because I cut some of their course off I got back to the start at Tracy before everyone else. But I was not putting much power into the pedals at that cadence but just keeping up with the bike so that I had some control.
> > > >
> > > > Think of it like I did a week or so ago - I hit 61,5 mph with a compact crank setup. That is NO control over the bike other than steering. Through the turns I was passing cars and the wind coming off of them made control tricky at best. This is one of the reasons that I have slowed down so much - I commonly went almost 70 descending mountain roads (using a 53 - 12) and even though they really shouldn't, cars would pass me. Or try. Watching a car spin out and nearly go over a cliff gives them a better sense of safety. Watching them pull over and let you past may be gratifying but riding that fast means one slip-up and you're waiting for the ambulance to arrive.. That's not really a sport then is it?
> > > >
> > > > We are sport riders and not professional racers. At some point your good sense overrules your careless attitude. And that's a good thing.
> > > >
> > > > I can hardly wait to get the Ridley together so I can weigh it and take it out on a climbing ride. Hopefully it will handle better than the Look KG585. Tapping on the layup it appears to be solid so I can keep it around for a long time since all of the parts will be new. getting new framesets that aren't disk is pretty cheap
> > > Did you change your opinion about CF and Di2 (again) and what does this mean for your opinions in the future about other matters?
> > >
> > > Lou
> > Do you mean that you suddenly think that I've changed my mind about carbon fiber bikes having a limited lifespan? No I haven't. But the frame and fork are new from the factory. How old is yours?
> >
> > Do you think that I've lost my distaste for plugging a bicycle in? No, but the the resale value of the bike with Di2 is much higher than one with manual shifting. What's more. aside from people who believe that they ride like pro's and so should have disk brakes, most people do not like the constant drag of disk brakes and prefer rim brakes. I know, you don/t have draggy disks but I think that you have a hearing impairment.
> Don’t mind me I don’t take your opinion about the lifetime of CF frames serious. I hope you make sure that the frame wasn’t in some kind of storage for more than two years, or doesn’t that count. Anyway I hope you discard that frame after two years otherwise you don’t practice what you preach and don’t dare to sell it to anyone else after two years. I will be testing your claim that Campagnolo brakepads for CF rims (the red-black ones) will brake as good as rim brakes on aluminum rims. I replaced the original Zipp pads (actually Swisstop) on my aerobike with these:
>
> https://www.bike-components.de/en/Campagnolo/Carbon-Cartridge-Brake-Pads-for-Shimano-p50469/?o=400001-red-universal
>
> They needed replacement anyway. I will report back.

So, you're not willing to take the word of Colnago that the carbon fiber framesets have a limited lifespan? Yes, the Taiwanese have certainly greatly improved their carbon fiber techniques but pretending that resin doesn't slowly deteriorate with age and loading simply isn't true. Boeing is replacing entire sections of their 787's because of this problem.

The aircraft section were manufactured under the best possible conditions and they are still showing signs of failure. Time bicycles are reliable because Vectran is a very long thread material that engages large sections of resin and so takes very much longer to deteriorate to the point where it becomes unreliable.

What I found was that the Campy carbon brake pads would stop like normal pads on aluminum wheels. I was quite impressed. In a place where I descended a very steep road and at the bottom of which was a stop sign that I used to slide through with the Chinese carbon rim brake pads, I could do a front wheel stand at the stop sign with the Campy pads.

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 10:30:10 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 4:12:16 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 11:37:30 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 8:13:15 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > Since I stumbled across a Ridley Helium for very close to nothing I bought it. The bad par5t is that like all of the modern racing bikes it is set up exclusively for electronic shifting and that weird 40 mm thread-less bottom bracket.
> > > > >
> > > > > The frame made entirely from carbon fiber weighs nearly nothing but by the time everything is put on it I would think it will weight around 16 lbs. Now I am not a fan of carbon fiber but since cycling is my hobby, I will finish the bike off. All of the parts are new and should have at least a 5 year lifespan.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is irritating that all of my electronic shifting stuff is sold off and I have to replace it, but that is the way hobbies go.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is strange that the smaller tapered fork bearings are very rare now - instead of a common size, they are so over-sized that you have to wonder exactly what went on in the designers mind if anything. Continuing to increase the size of a headset very soon reaches a point where you are adding weight rather than increasing strength.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no way to make a carbon fiber steering tube reliable at 1 1/2" and paper thin but that is what they are doing, The fork steering tube has reached the state of being paper thin. This cannot put up with normal wear and tear on the fork for very long and people talking about their bikes breaking after 2 years aren't a peculiarity but a fact of life.
> > > > >
> > > > > Electronic shifting is another matter. The shifting is better and far more accurate, It doesn't miss a gear or get half way between like in manual shifting, but come on - plugging in your bicycle? Properly set up, electronic shifting is perfect. But remember that it is only perfect because there are so many gears on the bike that it makes manual shifting difficult to design at best. Come on - other than professional racers who the hell needs 12 or 13 cogs in the back? Useful gears ended at perhaps 9 and the average rider really shifts over most of the 12 speed gears.
> > > > >
> > > > > Being old a weak now, I use more gears than most, but Joe Pretend Racer, really needs no more than 9 or 10 on very hilly courses.
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg Lemond implied that the present speed of the peloton is because the few strong riders are so much faster than other people that they are using electric motor assist or using drugs. He said that there is a sweet spot at around 100 rpm at which the human body develops the most power and if you see people pedaling much faster or slower than that something is up..
> > > > >
> > > > > Which set me to thinking. One time I was riding up a hill past the windmills in our Altamont Pass. The wind was blowing like hell and at one spot it caught my bike, I stepped off and the bike was blown out horizontal with me holding the top tube. I was the last one in the group but the group was not far ahead and when I caught up with them they wanted to turn around. Mind you, there was only 1/2 mile to where we would turn downwind and go over Patterson Pass. The wind was so strong that it frightened even the best riders. So we turned around. The fast guys rapidly disappeared on the downwind. I could not remember the rather complicated course that they had led me through but I was aware that all of the roads went through Tracy. So I continued and got my cadence up to 140 finally. Because I cut some of their course off I got back to the start at Tracy before everyone else. But I was not putting much power into the pedals at that cadence but just keeping up with the bike so that I had some control.
> > > > >
> > > > > Think of it like I did a week or so ago - I hit 61,5 mph with a compact crank setup. That is NO control over the bike other than steering. Through the turns I was passing cars and the wind coming off of them made control tricky at best. This is one of the reasons that I have slowed down so much - I commonly went almost 70 descending mountain roads (using a 53 - 12) and even though they really shouldn't, cars would pass me. Or try. Watching a car spin out and nearly go over a cliff gives them a better sense of safety. Watching them pull over and let you past may be gratifying but riding that fast means one slip-up and you're waiting for the ambulance to arrive. That's not really a sport then is it?
> > > > >
> > > > > We are sport riders and not professional racers. At some point your good sense overrules your careless attitude. And that's a good thing.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can hardly wait to get the Ridley together so I can weigh it and take it out on a climbing ride. Hopefully it will handle better than the Look KG585. Tapping on the layup it appears to be solid so I can keep it around for a long time since all of the parts will be new. getting new framesets that aren't disk is pretty cheap
> > > > Did you change your opinion about CF and Di2 (again) and what does this mean for your opinions in the future about other matters?
> > > >
> > > > Lou
> > > Do you mean that you suddenly think that I've changed my mind about carbon fiber bikes having a limited lifespan? No I haven't. But the frame and fork are new from the factory. How old is yours?
> > >
> > > Do you think that I've lost my distaste for plugging a bicycle in? No, but the the resale value of the bike with Di2 is much higher than one with manual shifting. What's more. aside from people who believe that they ride like pro's and so should have disk brakes, most people do not like the constant drag of disk brakes and prefer rim brakes. I know, you don/t have draggy disks but I think that you have a hearing impairment.
> > Don’t mind me I don’t take your opinion about the lifetime of CF frames serious. I hope you make sure that the frame wasn’t in some kind of storage for more than two years, or doesn’t that count. Anyway I hope you discard that frame after two years otherwise you don’t practice what you preach and don’t dare to sell it to anyone else after two years. I will be testing your claim that Campagnolo brakepads for CF rims (the red-black ones) will brake as good as rim brakes on aluminum rims. I replaced the original Zipp pads (actually Swisstop) on my aerobike with these:
> >
> > https://www.bike-components.de/en/Campagnolo/Carbon-Cartridge-Brake-Pads-for-Shimano-p50469/?o=400001-red-universal
> >
> > They needed replacement anyway. I will report back.
> So, you're not willing to take the word of Colnago that the carbon fiber framesets have a limited lifespan? Yes, the Taiwanese have certainly greatly improved their carbon fiber techniques but pretending that resin doesn't slowly deteriorate with age and loading simply isn't true. Boeing is replacing entire sections of their 787's because of this problem.

Yes I am not willing to take the word from Colnago that as a general rule that CF has a limited lifespan of 2 years when used within spec, and not crashed. Colnago is not high on my list.

Lou

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 13:30:07 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>So, you're not willing to take the word of Colnago that the carbon fiber framesets have a limited lifespan? Yes, the Taiwanese have certainly greatly improved their carbon fiber techniques but pretending that resin doesn't slowly deteriorate with age and loading simply isn't true. Boeing is replacing entire sections of their 787's because of this problem.

Nope. The problem was identified in 2021 as being caused by Teflon
contamination:
<https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/composite-contamination-latest-787-defect/>
I don't know "replacing entire sections" was performed.

I found nothing with Google search that mentions bicycles with Teflon
contaminated carbon fiber.

>The aircraft section were manufactured under the best possible conditions and they are still showing signs of failure.

I found no evidence of that online. Do you have a link or URL?

>Time bicycles are reliable because Vectran is a very long thread material that engages large sections of resin and so takes very much longer to deteriorate to the point where it becomes unreliable.

Methinks it might be more than just using Vectran. Interesting
reading:
<https://shop.timebicycles.com/pages/technology>
"For every bike, there is a mix of 17 different fibers, from various
carbon fiber types, to Kevlar, Vectran, and Basalt. Each fiber is
chosen for the specific qualities it will provide, and strategically
woven in the precise places it will do the most good."

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 13:30:07 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:05:31?AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 4:12:16?PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 11:37:30?PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> > > On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 8:13:15?PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > > > Since I stumbled across a Ridley Helium for very close to nothing I bought it. The bad par5t is that like all of the modern racing bikes it is set up exclusively for electronic shifting and that weird 40 mm thread-less bottom bracket.
>> > > >
>> > > > The frame made entirely from carbon fiber weighs nearly nothing but by the time everything is put on it I would think it will weight around 16 lbs. Now I am not a fan of carbon fiber but since cycling is my hobby, I will finish the bike off. All of the parts are new and should have at least a 5 year lifespan.
>> > > >
>> > > > It is irritating that all of my electronic shifting stuff is sold off and I have to replace it, but that is the way hobbies go.
>> > > >
>> > > > It is strange that the smaller tapered fork bearings are very rare now - instead of a common size, they are so over-sized that you have to wonder exactly what went on in the designers mind if anything. Continuing to increase the size of a headset very soon reaches a point where you are adding weight rather than increasing strength.
>> > > >
>> > > > There is no way to make a carbon fiber steering tube reliable at 1 1/2" and paper thin but that is what they are doing, The fork steering tube has reached the state of being paper thin. This cannot put up with normal wear and tear on the fork for very long and people talking about their bikes breaking after 2 years aren't a peculiarity but a fact of life.
>> > > >
>> > > > Electronic shifting is another matter. The shifting is better and far more accurate, It doesn't miss a gear or get half way between like in manual shifting, but come on - plugging in your bicycle? Properly set up, electronic shifting is perfect. But remember that it is only perfect because there are so many gears on the bike that it makes manual shifting difficult to design at best. Come on - other than professional racers who the hell needs 12 or 13 cogs in the back? Useful gears ended at perhaps 9 and the average rider really shifts over most of the 12 speed gears.
>> > > >
>> > > > Being old a weak now, I use more gears than most, but Joe Pretend Racer, really needs no more than 9 or 10 on very hilly courses.
>> > > >
>> > > > Greg Lemond implied that the present speed of the peloton is because the few strong riders are so much faster than other people that they are using electric motor assist or using drugs. He said that there is a sweet spot at around 100 rpm at which the human body develops the most power and if you see people pedaling much faster or slower than that something is up.
>> > > >
>> > > > Which set me to thinking. One time I was riding up a hill past the windmills in our Altamont Pass. The wind was blowing like hell and at one spot it caught my bike, I stepped off and the bike was blown out horizontal with me holding the top tube. I was the last one in the group but the group was not far ahead and when I caught up with them they wanted to turn around. Mind you, there was only 1/2 mile to where we would turn downwind and go over Patterson Pass. The wind was so strong that it frightened even the best riders. So we turned around. The fast guys rapidly disappeared on the downwind. I could not remember the rather complicated course that they had led me through but I was aware that all of the roads went through Tracy. So I continued and got my cadence up to 140 finally. Because I cut some of their course off I got back to the start at Tracy before everyone else. But I was not putting much power into the pedals at that cadence but just keeping up with the bike so
>that I had some control.
>> > > >
>> > > > Think of it like I did a week or so ago - I hit 61,5 mph with a compact crank setup. That is NO control over the bike other than steering. Through the turns I was passing cars and the wind coming off of them made control tricky at best. This is one of the reasons that I have slowed down so much - I commonly went almost 70 descending mountain roads (using a 53 - 12) and even though they really shouldn't, cars would pass me. Or try. Watching a car spin out and nearly go over a cliff gives them a better sense of safety. Watching them pull over and let you past may be gratifying but riding that fast means one slip-up and you're waiting for the ambulance to arrive. That's not really a sport then is it?
>> > > >
>> > > > We are sport riders and not professional racers. At some point your good sense overrules your careless attitude. And that's a good thing.
>> > > >
>> > > > I can hardly wait to get the Ridley together so I can weigh it and take it out on a climbing ride. Hopefully it will handle better than the Look KG585. Tapping on the layup it appears to be solid so I can keep it around for a long time since all of the parts will be new. getting new framesets that aren't disk is pretty cheap
>> > > Did you change your opinion about CF and Di2 (again) and what does this mean for your opinions in the future about other matters?
>> > >
>> > > Lou
>> > Do you mean that you suddenly think that I've changed my mind about carbon fiber bikes having a limited lifespan? No I haven't. But the frame and fork are new from the factory. How old is yours?
>> >
>> > Do you think that I've lost my distaste for plugging a bicycle in? No, but the the resale value of the bike with Di2 is much higher than one with manual shifting. What's more. aside from people who believe that they ride like pro's and so should have disk brakes, most people do not like the constant drag of disk brakes and prefer rim brakes. I know, you don/t have draggy disks but I think that you have a hearing impairment.
>> Don’t mind me I don’t take your opinion about the lifetime of CF frames serious. I hope you make sure that the frame wasn’t in some kind of storage for more than two years, or doesn’t that count. Anyway I hope you discard that frame after two years otherwise you don’t practice what you preach and don’t dare to sell it to anyone else after two years. I will be testing your claim that Campagnolo brakepads for CF rims (the red-black ones) will brake as good as rim brakes on aluminum rims. I replaced the original Zipp pads (actually Swisstop) on my aerobike with these:
>>
>> https://www.bike-components.de/en/Campagnolo/Carbon-Cartridge-Brake-Pads-for-Shimano-p50469/?o=400001-red-universal
>>
>> They needed replacement anyway. I will report back.
>
>So, you're not willing to take the word of Colnago that the carbon fiber framesets have a limited lifespan? Yes, the Taiwanese have certainly greatly improved their carbon fiber techniques but pretending that resin doesn't slowly deteriorate with age and loading simply isn't true. Boeing is replacing entire sections of their 787's because of this problem.
>

Really Tommy" Why is it that I can't find any reference to your
statement being true? Is this because you don't know what you are
talking about or because you are a pathological liar?

And just as yesterday I challenge you to prove that you know what you
are talking about. Please provide proof that you know what you are
talking about.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 08 Aug 2023 10:33:36 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 11:13:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The frame made entirely from carbon fiber weighs nearly nothing but by the time everything is put on it I would think it will weight around 16 lbs. Now I am not a fan of carbon fiber but since cycling is my hobby, I will finish the bike off. All of the parts are new and should have at least a 5 year lifespan.
>
>Did you change your opinion about the dangers carbon fiber bicycles?
>Is your Ridley Helium new or used?
>
>(07/22/2016)
>"Danger From Carbon Fiber Bikes"
><https://www.twospoke.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.17594/>
>"Apparently, ALL carbon fiber bike frames, regardless of manufacturer
>and warranty, are good for only TWO YEARS, after that they can break
>and cause serious injury or even cost you your life."
>
>"On the way back to Castro Valley, my friend Tom Kunich (who was also
>riding a full carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill."
>
>I thought that the crash which caused your concusion was in Dec 2009.
>From the above article, it would seem like it happend in July 2016. Is
>SLTom992 the same person as Tom Kunich? From the article, it would
>seem that they are two different people, both Colagno C40 owners, both
>crashing within 5 days of each other. That seems like an amazing
>coincidence. You might want to clarify the dates and untangle the
>identities.
>
>Incidentally, the Ridley helium has a maximum rider weight of 95kg
>(209lbs). How close are you to the limit?
><https://www.bikeradar.com/features/the-ridley-helium-slx-is-the-lightweight-race-bike-of-your-dreams/>
>"Unsurprisingly, such a lightweight frameset has a rider weight limit
>of 95kg."

(:-( ""Apparently, ALL carbon fiber bike frames, regardless of
manufacturer and warranty, are good for only TWO YEARS"

Well actual fact (Yes I know very unusual in Tom's posts) is:

That Colnago will warrant their bicycles for 2 or 3 years "to be free
from manufacturing of material defects"
https://warranty.sportforlife.co.th/assets/manual/POLICY/COLNAGO.pdf
The 2 - 3 year period is apparently dependent on whether you register
your purchase with the company or just carry it out the door.

In contract Ford warrants their autos:
Ford model covered for 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first.
This includes all parts that fail during normal use due to a
manufacturing issue in factory-supplied materials or craftsmanship.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 08 Aug 2023 15:01:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 13:30:07 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>So, you're not willing to take the word of Colnago that the carbon fiber framesets have a limited lifespan? Yes, the Taiwanese have certainly greatly improved their carbon fiber techniques but pretending that resin doesn't slowly deteriorate with age and loading simply isn't true. Boeing is replacing entire sections of their 787's because of this problem.
>
>Nope. The problem was identified in 2021 as being caused by Teflon
>contamination:
><https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/composite-contamination-latest-787-defect/>
>I don't know "replacing entire sections" was performed.
>
>I found nothing with Google search that mentions bicycles with Teflon
>contaminated carbon fiber.
>
>>The aircraft section were manufactured under the best possible conditions and they are still showing signs of failure.
>
>I found no evidence of that online. Do you have a link or URL?
>
>>Time bicycles are reliable because Vectran is a very long thread material that engages large sections of resin and so takes very much longer to deteriorate to the point where it becomes unreliable.
>
>Methinks it might be more than just using Vectran. Interesting
>reading:
><https://shop.timebicycles.com/pages/technology>
>"For every bike, there is a mix of 17 different fibers, from various
>carbon fiber types, to Kevlar, Vectran, and Basalt. Each fiber is
>chosen for the specific qualities it will provide, and strategically
>woven in the precise places it will do the most good."

The furor about carbon fiber composites in bicycles seems strange as
carbon fiber composites have been used in quite a number of other
products, some as diverse as golf clubs and sail boats, for years and
years... well, since 1972 for golf clubs anyway, with no history of
frequent failure.

Out of curiosity I did a quick check of articles regarding "composite
bicycle frame breakage" and found several individuals standing tall
and giving their suppositions as fact and one actual study of
composite frames
http://divk.inovacionicentar.rs/ivk/ivk20/069-IVK1-2020-US-RT-AG-AS.pdf
Which seems to imply that a properly designed composite frame is
perfectly safe unless unusual stresses are imposed on it.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 09 Aug 2023 08:51:12 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 08 Aug 2023 10:33:36 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 11:13:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>The frame made entirely from carbon fiber weighs nearly nothing but by the time everything is put on it I would think it will weight around 16 lbs. Now I am not a fan of carbon fiber but since cycling is my hobby, I will finish the bike off. All of the parts are new and should have at least a 5 year lifespan.
>>
>>Did you change your opinion about the dangers carbon fiber bicycles?
>>Is your Ridley Helium new or used?
>>
>>(07/22/2016)
>>"Danger From Carbon Fiber Bikes"
>><https://www.twospoke.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.17594/>
>>"Apparently, ALL carbon fiber bike frames, regardless of manufacturer
>>and warranty, are good for only TWO YEARS, after that they can break
>>and cause serious injury or even cost you your life."
>>
>>"On the way back to Castro Valley, my friend Tom Kunich (who was also
>>riding a full carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill."
>>
>>I thought that the crash which caused your concusion was in Dec 2009.
>>From the above article, it would seem like it happend in July 2016. Is
>>SLTom992 the same person as Tom Kunich? From the article, it would
>>seem that they are two different people, both Colagno C40 owners, both
>>crashing within 5 days of each other. That seems like an amazing
>>coincidence. You might want to clarify the dates and untangle the
>>identities.
>>
>>Incidentally, the Ridley helium has a maximum rider weight of 95kg
>>(209lbs). How close are you to the limit?
>><https://www.bikeradar.com/features/the-ridley-helium-slx-is-the-lightweight-race-bike-of-your-dreams/>
>>"Unsurprisingly, such a lightweight frameset has a rider weight limit
>>of 95kg."

I vaguely recall the Tom indicated that he was about 6ft 3in tall.
According to these charts:
<https://www.bannerhealth.com/staying-well/health-and-wellness/fitness-nutrition/ideal-weight>
<https://www.disabled-world.com/calculators-charts/height-weight.php>
the ideal weight for this height would be 176 to 216 lbs (79.8 to 98
kgs). That seems to overlap the maximum rider weight for the Ridley
Helium 95 kg (209 lbs). This should be interesting.

> (:-( ""Apparently, ALL carbon fiber bike frames, regardless of
>manufacturer and warranty, are good for only TWO YEARS"
>
>Well actual fact (Yes I know very unusual in Tom's posts) is:
>
>That Colnago will warrant their bicycles for 2 or 3 years "to be free
>from manufacturing of material defects"
>https://warranty.sportforlife.co.th/assets/manual/POLICY/COLNAGO.pdf
>The 2 - 3 year period is apparently dependent on whether you register
>your purchase with the company or just carry it out the door.

In California, a 2003 law prohibits a registration requirement:
<https://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/25/technology/do-you-really-need-that-warranty-card.html>
"A California law that takes effect next month goes a step further: it
will require a notice on warranty cards telling customers that their
warranty rights will remain intact whether or not the cards are mailed
in."
In 2023, California extended the protection:
<https://www.bipc.com/effective-july-2023-song-beverly-act-amendment-will-affect-companies-selling-consumer-goods-in-california>
"Effective July 1, 2023, California law will prohibit express
warranties for consumer products sold in California from beginning on
the date of sale if delivery occurs later. Instead, warranties for
products sold in the state will begin in the date of delivery to the
consumer if that’s not the same as the date of sale."

I predict a flood of warranty revision notices to address the change.

>In contract Ford warrants their autos:
>Ford model covered for 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first.
>This includes all parts that fail during normal use due to a
>manufacturing issue in factory-supplied materials or craftsmanship.

"What is the warranty expiration date on my Ford?"
<https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/search/What%20is%20my%20warranty%20expiration%20date/>
Ford uses an "in-service date" which seems to be close to the date of
sale. That should comply with the new California Song-Beverly Act:
<https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/warranty/warranties-and-coverage/what-is-the-warranty-start-date/>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 08 Aug 2023 22:23:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 09 Aug 2023 08:51:12 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 08 Aug 2023 10:33:36 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 11:13:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>The frame made entirely from carbon fiber weighs nearly nothing but by the time everything is put on it I would think it will weight around 16 lbs. Now I am not a fan of carbon fiber but since cycling is my hobby, I will finish the bike off. All of the parts are new and should have at least a 5 year lifespan.
>>>
>>>Did you change your opinion about the dangers carbon fiber bicycles?
>>>Is your Ridley Helium new or used?
>>>
>>>(07/22/2016)
>>>"Danger From Carbon Fiber Bikes"
>>><https://www.twospoke.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.17594/>
>>>"Apparently, ALL carbon fiber bike frames, regardless of manufacturer
>>>and warranty, are good for only TWO YEARS, after that they can break
>>>and cause serious injury or even cost you your life."
>>>
>>>"On the way back to Castro Valley, my friend Tom Kunich (who was also
>>>riding a full carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill."
>>>
>>>I thought that the crash which caused your concusion was in Dec 2009.
>>>From the above article, it would seem like it happend in July 2016. Is
>>>SLTom992 the same person as Tom Kunich? From the article, it would
>>>seem that they are two different people, both Colagno C40 owners, both
>>>crashing within 5 days of each other. That seems like an amazing
>>>coincidence. You might want to clarify the dates and untangle the
>>>identities.
>>>
>>>Incidentally, the Ridley helium has a maximum rider weight of 95kg
>>>(209lbs). How close are you to the limit?
>>><https://www.bikeradar.com/features/the-ridley-helium-slx-is-the-lightweight-race-bike-of-your-dreams/>
>>>"Unsurprisingly, such a lightweight frameset has a rider weight limit
>>>of 95kg."
>
>I vaguely recall the Tom indicated that he was about 6ft 3in tall.
>According to these charts:
><https://www.bannerhealth.com/staying-well/health-and-wellness/fitness-nutrition/ideal-weight>
><https://www.disabled-world.com/calculators-charts/height-weight.php>
>the ideal weight for this height would be 176 to 216 lbs (79.8 to 98
>kgs). That seems to overlap the maximum rider weight for the Ridley
>Helium 95 kg (209 lbs). This should be interesting.
>
>> (:-( ""Apparently, ALL carbon fiber bike frames, regardless of
>>manufacturer and warranty, are good for only TWO YEARS"
>>
>>Well actual fact (Yes I know very unusual in Tom's posts) is:
>>
>>That Colnago will warrant their bicycles for 2 or 3 years "to be free
>>from manufacturing of material defects"
>>https://warranty.sportforlife.co.th/assets/manual/POLICY/COLNAGO.pdf
>>The 2 - 3 year period is apparently dependent on whether you register
>>your purchase with the company or just carry it out the door.
>
>In California, a 2003 law prohibits a registration requirement:
><https://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/25/technology/do-you-really-need-that-warranty-card.html>
>"A California law that takes effect next month goes a step further: it
>will require a notice on warranty cards telling customers that their
>warranty rights will remain intact whether or not the cards are mailed
>in."
>In 2023, California extended the protection:
><https://www.bipc.com/effective-july-2023-song-beverly-act-amendment-will-affect-companies-selling-consumer-goods-in-california>
>"Effective July 1, 2023, California law will prohibit express
>warranties for consumer products sold in California from beginning on
>the date of sale if delivery occurs later. Instead, warranties for
>products sold in the state will begin in the date of delivery to the
>consumer if that’s not the same as the date of sale."
>
>I predict a flood of warranty revision notices to address the change.

Perhaps it has gone out of style but when I "buy" something I assume
ownership changes when I hand over the money. And, yes, I read your
reference, but do you people hand over your money and then go home,
hoping that what you "bought" will be delivered?

I might comment that here no one is silly enough to do that. If you
buy a refrigerator, as your reference mentions, you don't hand over
the money until the 'fridge is sitting in your kitchen, plugged in,
and has gotten cold.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 8/8/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Aug 2023 15:01:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 13:30:07 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So, you're not willing to take the word of Colnago that the carbon fiber framesets have a limited lifespan? Yes, the Taiwanese have certainly greatly improved their carbon fiber techniques but pretending that resin doesn't slowly deteriorate with age and loading simply isn't true. Boeing is replacing entire sections of their 787's because of this problem.
>>
>> Nope. The problem was identified in 2021 as being caused by Teflon
>> contamination:
>> <https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/composite-contamination-latest-787-defect/>
>> I don't know "replacing entire sections" was performed.
>>
>> I found nothing with Google search that mentions bicycles with Teflon
>> contaminated carbon fiber.
>>
>>> The aircraft section were manufactured under the best possible conditions and they are still showing signs of failure.
>>
>> I found no evidence of that online. Do you have a link or URL?
>>
>>> Time bicycles are reliable because Vectran is a very long thread material that engages large sections of resin and so takes very much longer to deteriorate to the point where it becomes unreliable.
>>
>> Methinks it might be more than just using Vectran. Interesting
>> reading:
>> <https://shop.timebicycles.com/pages/technology>
>> "For every bike, there is a mix of 17 different fibers, from various
>> carbon fiber types, to Kevlar, Vectran, and Basalt. Each fiber is
>> chosen for the specific qualities it will provide, and strategically
>> woven in the precise places it will do the most good."
>
> The furor about carbon fiber composites in bicycles seems strange as
> carbon fiber composites have been used in quite a number of other
> products, some as diverse as golf clubs and sail boats, for years and
> years... well, since 1972 for golf clubs anyway, with no history of
> frequent failure.
>
> Out of curiosity I did a quick check of articles regarding "composite
> bicycle frame breakage" and found several individuals standing tall
> and giving their suppositions as fact and one actual study of
> composite frames
> http://divk.inovacionicentar.rs/ivk/ivk20/069-IVK1-2020-US-RT-AG-AS.pdf
> Which seems to imply that a properly designed composite frame is
> perfectly safe unless unusual stresses are imposed on it.
>

IME everything fails.

Carbon frames fail differently from steel, which fail
differently from titanium, etc. I can't say carbon frames
are any more or less failure prone and all modern frames
have lower rates of failure than in 'the good old days'.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 9:33:41 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/8/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
> > On Tue, 08 Aug 2023 15:01:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 13:30:07 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> So, you're not willing to take the word of Colnago that the carbon fiber framesets have a limited lifespan? Yes, the Taiwanese have certainly greatly improved their carbon fiber techniques but pretending that resin doesn't slowly deteriorate with age and loading simply isn't true. Boeing is replacing entire sections of their 787's because of this problem.
> >>
> >> Nope. The problem was identified in 2021 as being caused by Teflon
> >> contamination:
> >> <https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/composite-contamination-latest-787-defect/>
> >> I don't know "replacing entire sections" was performed.
> >>
> >> I found nothing with Google search that mentions bicycles with Teflon
> >> contaminated carbon fiber.
> >>
> >>> The aircraft section were manufactured under the best possible conditions and they are still showing signs of failure.
> >>
> >> I found no evidence of that online. Do you have a link or URL?
> >>
> >>> Time bicycles are reliable because Vectran is a very long thread material that engages large sections of resin and so takes very much longer to deteriorate to the point where it becomes unreliable.
> >>
> >> Methinks it might be more than just using Vectran. Interesting
> >> reading:
> >> <https://shop.timebicycles.com/pages/technology>
> >> "For every bike, there is a mix of 17 different fibers, from various
> >> carbon fiber types, to Kevlar, Vectran, and Basalt. Each fiber is
> >> chosen for the specific qualities it will provide, and strategically
> >> woven in the precise places it will do the most good."
> >
> > The furor about carbon fiber composites in bicycles seems strange as
> > carbon fiber composites have been used in quite a number of other
> > products, some as diverse as golf clubs and sail boats, for years and
> > years... well, since 1972 for golf clubs anyway, with no history of
> > frequent failure.
> >
> > Out of curiosity I did a quick check of articles regarding "composite
> > bicycle frame breakage" and found several individuals standing tall
> > and giving their suppositions as fact and one actual study of
> > composite frames
> > http://divk.inovacionicentar.rs/ivk/ivk20/069-IVK1-2020-US-RT-AG-AS.pdf
> > Which seems to imply that a properly designed composite frame is
> > perfectly safe unless unusual stresses are imposed on it.
> >
> IME everything fails.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsQyru5ACmA

>
> Carbon frames fail differently from steel, which fail
> differently from titanium, etc. I can't say carbon frames
> are any more or less failure prone and all modern frames
> have lower rates of failure than in 'the good old days'.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 6:01:28 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 13:30:07 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >So, you're not willing to take the word of Colnago that the carbon fiber framesets have a limited lifespan? Yes, the Taiwanese have certainly greatly improved their carbon fiber techniques but pretending that resin doesn't slowly deteriorate with age and loading simply isn't true. Boeing is replacing entire sections of their 787's because of this problem.
> Nope. The problem was identified in 2021 as being caused by Teflon
> contamination:
> <https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/composite-contamination-latest-787-defect/>
> I don't know "replacing entire sections" was performed.

It wasn't. I went through this with him a little while ago. He was wrong then and he's wrong now.

>
> I found nothing with Google search that mentions bicycles with Teflon
> contaminated carbon fiber.
> >The aircraft section were manufactured under the best possible conditions and they are still showing signs of failure.
> I found no evidence of that online. Do you have a link or URL?
> >Time bicycles are reliable because Vectran is a very long thread material that engages large sections of resin and so takes very much longer to deteriorate to the point where it becomes unreliable.
> Methinks it might be more than just using Vectran. Interesting
> reading:
> <https://shop.timebicycles.com/pages/technology>
> "For every bike, there is a mix of 17 different fibers, from various
> carbon fiber types, to Kevlar, Vectran, and Basalt. Each fiber is
> chosen for the specific qualities it will provide, and strategically
> woven in the precise places it will do the most good."
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 09 Aug 2023 08:33:35 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 8/8/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 08 Aug 2023 15:01:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 13:30:07 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, you're not willing to take the word of Colnago that the carbon fiber framesets have a limited lifespan? Yes, the Taiwanese have certainly greatly improved their carbon fiber techniques but pretending that resin doesn't slowly deteriorate with age and loading simply isn't true. Boeing is replacing entire sections of their 787's because of this problem.
>>>
>>> Nope. The problem was identified in 2021 as being caused by Teflon
>>> contamination:
>>> <https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/composite-contamination-latest-787-defect/>
>>> I don't know "replacing entire sections" was performed.
>>>
>>> I found nothing with Google search that mentions bicycles with Teflon
>>> contaminated carbon fiber.
>>>
>>>> The aircraft section were manufactured under the best possible conditions and they are still showing signs of failure.
>>>
>>> I found no evidence of that online. Do you have a link or URL?
>>>
>>>> Time bicycles are reliable because Vectran is a very long thread material that engages large sections of resin and so takes very much longer to deteriorate to the point where it becomes unreliable.
>>>
>>> Methinks it might be more than just using Vectran. Interesting
>>> reading:
>>> <https://shop.timebicycles.com/pages/technology>
>>> "For every bike, there is a mix of 17 different fibers, from various
>>> carbon fiber types, to Kevlar, Vectran, and Basalt. Each fiber is
>>> chosen for the specific qualities it will provide, and strategically
>>> woven in the precise places it will do the most good."
>>
>> The furor about carbon fiber composites in bicycles seems strange as
>> carbon fiber composites have been used in quite a number of other
>> products, some as diverse as golf clubs and sail boats, for years and
>> years... well, since 1972 for golf clubs anyway, with no history of
>> frequent failure.
>>
>> Out of curiosity I did a quick check of articles regarding "composite
>> bicycle frame breakage" and found several individuals standing tall
>> and giving their suppositions as fact and one actual study of
>> composite frames
>> http://divk.inovacionicentar.rs/ivk/ivk20/069-IVK1-2020-US-RT-AG-AS.pdf
>> Which seems to imply that a properly designed composite frame is
>> perfectly safe unless unusual stresses are imposed on it.
>>
>
>IME everything fails.
>
>Carbon frames fail differently from steel, which fail
>differently from titanium, etc. I can't say carbon frames
>are any more or less failure prone and all modern frames
>have lower rates of failure than in 'the good old days'.

I think that the "problem" with composite frames is that "failure" in
a composite frame is usually that it breaks while in a metal frame the
more usual failure is that the structure distorts with out
catastrophic failure.

The front fork breaking is, as an example, far more exciting when the
front forks bending although both can be considered as a "failure".

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 8:00:36 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>
> I think that the "problem" with composite frames is that "failure" in
> a composite frame is usually that it breaks while in a metal frame the
> more usual failure is that the structure distorts with out
> catastrophic failure.
>
> The front fork breaking is, as an example, far more exciting when the
> front forks bending although both can be considered as a "failure".

When our tandem's steel front forks suddenly broke off, it was very exciting.

- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 8:00:36 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>>
>> I think that the "problem" with composite frames is that "failure" in
>> a composite frame is usually that it breaks while in a metal frame the
>> more usual failure is that the structure distorts with out
>> catastrophic failure.
>>
>> The front fork breaking is, as an example, far more exciting when the
>> front forks bending although both can be considered as a "failure".
>
> When our tandem's steel front forks suddenly broke off, it was very exciting.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>

Sounds it!

Roger Merriman