For those not satisfied with GPS, Garmin, electronic shifting, power
meters etc., here's another gizmo:

https://road.cc/content/tech-news/could-tiny-sensor-help-you-ride-faster-303163

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:09:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>For those not satisfied with GPS, Garmin, electronic shifting, power
>meters etc., here's another gizmo:
>
>https://road.cc/content/tech-news/could-tiny-sensor-help-you-ride-faster-303163

More detail:
<https://www.streamlines.aero/forma>
"The FORMA mounts to the bike stem and uses range sensing technology
to measure the rider's head, chest, and waist position."

£475 or $600 USD seems a bit pricey for an electronic string measuring
tool. However, if it gives the racer an advantage, it might be money
well spent.

I wonder how well it works in a crosswind or while drafting?

Methinks it's overkill. Measuring the stem to chest and stem to head
distances could also be done with two lengths of 2mm (1/16") elastic
cord.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=2mm+elastic+cord>
It would be tight at the optimum aerodynamic distance, slack when the
head or chest are too close, or tight when the head or chest is too
far away. If you don't like wearing rubber bands, replace the cord
with a no-stretch string and take up the slack with two small spring
loaded pulleys.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 5:37:48 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:09:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >For those not satisfied with GPS, Garmin, electronic shifting, power
> >meters etc., here's another gizmo:
> >
> >https://road.cc/content/tech-news/could-tiny-sensor-help-you-ride-faster-303163
> More detail:
> <https://www.streamlines.aero/forma>
> "The FORMA mounts to the bike stem and uses range sensing technology
> to measure the rider's head, chest, and waist position."
>
> £475 or $600 USD seems a bit pricey for an electronic string measuring
> tool. However, if it gives the racer an advantage, it might be money
> well spent.

Maybe.

>
> I wonder how well it works in a crosswind or while drafting?

Why would that make a difference? Your position is your position, regardless of the wind.

>
> Methinks it's overkill. Measuring the stem to chest and stem to head
> distances could also be done with two lengths of 2mm (1/16") elastic
> cord.
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=2mm+elastic+cord>
> It would be tight at the optimum aerodynamic distance, slack when the
> head or chest are too close, or tight when the head or chest is too
> far away. If you don't like wearing rubber bands, replace the cord
> with a no-stretch string and take up the slack with two small spring
> loaded pulleys.

I don't disagree with your overkill comment, but riding with a string connecting your upper body to the stem would be dangerous, and likely heavily frowned upon by the UCI.

>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 8/13/2023 8:42 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 5:37:48 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:09:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> For those not satisfied with GPS, Garmin, electronic shifting, power
>>> meters etc., here's another gizmo:
>>>
>>> https://road.cc/content/tech-news/could-tiny-sensor-help-you-ride-faster-303163
>> More detail:
>> <https://www.streamlines.aero/forma>
>> "The FORMA mounts to the bike stem and uses range sensing technology
>> to measure the rider's head, chest, and waist position."
>>
>> £475 or $600 USD seems a bit pricey for an electronic string measuring
>> tool. However, if it gives the racer an advantage, it might be money
>> well spent.
>
> Maybe.
>
>>
>> I wonder how well it works in a crosswind or while drafting?
>
> Why would that make a difference? Your position is your position, regardless of the wind.
>
>>
>> Methinks it's overkill. Measuring the stem to chest and stem to head
>> distances could also be done with two lengths of 2mm (1/16") elastic
>> cord.
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=2mm+elastic+cord>
>> It would be tight at the optimum aerodynamic distance, slack when the
>> head or chest are too close, or tight when the head or chest is too
>> far away. If you don't like wearing rubber bands, replace the cord
>> with a no-stretch string and take up the slack with two small spring
>> loaded pulleys.
>
> I don't disagree with your overkill comment, but riding with a string connecting your upper body to the stem would be dangerous, and likely heavily frowned upon by the UCI.

One April issue of _Buycycling_ magazine, long ago, had a joke article
on a newly developed power trick. It involved using both hands to push
downward on one's knees to get more pedal force.

Of course it meant one's hands had to be off the handlebars (ooh,
scary!) so the rider was supposed to steer with ropes going from the
bars to one's teeth, or something similar.

I wouldn't suggest ropes with a round cross section. Airfoil cross
sections have about one tenth the aero drag. Efficiency!

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 8/13/2023 8:42 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 5:37:48 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:09:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> For those not satisfied with GPS, Garmin, electronic shifting, power
>>>> meters etc., here's another gizmo:
>>>>
>>>> https://road.cc/content/tech-news/could-tiny-sensor-help-you-ride-faster-303163
>>> More detail:
>>> <https://www.streamlines.aero/forma>
>>> "The FORMA mounts to the bike stem and uses range sensing technology
>>> to measure the rider's head, chest, and waist position."
>>>
>>> £475 or $600 USD seems a bit pricey for an electronic string measuring
>>> tool. However, if it gives the racer an advantage, it might be money
>>> well spent.
>>
>> Maybe.
>>
>>>
>>> I wonder how well it works in a crosswind or while drafting?
>>
>> Why would that make a difference? Your position is your position, regardless of the wind.
>>
>>>
>>> Methinks it's overkill. Measuring the stem to chest and stem to head
>>> distances could also be done with two lengths of 2mm (1/16") elastic
>>> cord.
>>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=2mm+elastic+cord>
>>> It would be tight at the optimum aerodynamic distance, slack when the
>>> head or chest are too close, or tight when the head or chest is too
>>> far away. If you don't like wearing rubber bands, replace the cord
>>> with a no-stretch string and take up the slack with two small spring
>>> loaded pulleys.
>>
>> I don't disagree with your overkill comment, but riding with a string
>> connecting your upper body to the stem would be dangerous, and likely
>> heavily frowned upon by the UCI.
>
> One April issue of _Buycycling_ magazine, long ago, had a joke article
> on a newly developed power trick. It involved using both hands to push
> downward on one's knees to get more pedal force.
>
> Of course it meant one's hands had to be off the handlebars (ooh,
> scary!) so the rider was supposed to steer with ropes going from the
> bars to one's teeth, or something similar.
>
> I wouldn't suggest ropes with a round cross section. Airfoil cross
> sections have about one tenth the aero drag. Efficiency!
>

Back to the article I guess depends how close to wind tunnel testing it is?
If it’s close enough and clearly a lot cheaper might be useful tool for
some racers/teams that for example don’t have Team Ineos budgets!

Personally I wear MTB baggies so just from the get go I’m catching the
wind, but it’s comfortable and realistic being a wee bit faster in a skin
suit? Really isn’t my thing!

Roger Merriman

On 8/14/2023 8:19 AM, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 8/13/2023 8:42 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 5:37:48 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:09:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For those not satisfied with GPS, Garmin, electronic shifting, power
>>>>> meters etc., here's another gizmo:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://road.cc/content/tech-news/could-tiny-sensor-help-you-ride-faster-303163
>>>> More detail:
>>>> <https://www.streamlines.aero/forma>
>>>> "The FORMA mounts to the bike stem and uses range sensing technology
>>>> to measure the rider's head, chest, and waist position."
>>>>
>>>> £475 or $600 USD seems a bit pricey for an electronic string measuring
>>>> tool. However, if it gives the racer an advantage, it might be money
>>>> well spent.
>>>
>>> Maybe.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how well it works in a crosswind or while drafting?
>>>
>>> Why would that make a difference? Your position is your position, regardless of the wind.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Methinks it's overkill. Measuring the stem to chest and stem to head
>>>> distances could also be done with two lengths of 2mm (1/16") elastic
>>>> cord.
>>>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=2mm+elastic+cord>
>>>> It would be tight at the optimum aerodynamic distance, slack when the
>>>> head or chest are too close, or tight when the head or chest is too
>>>> far away. If you don't like wearing rubber bands, replace the cord
>>>> with a no-stretch string and take up the slack with two small spring
>>>> loaded pulleys.
>>>
>>> I don't disagree with your overkill comment, but riding with a string
>>> connecting your upper body to the stem would be dangerous, and likely
>>> heavily frowned upon by the UCI.
>>
>> One April issue of _Buycycling_ magazine, long ago, had a joke article
>> on a newly developed power trick. It involved using both hands to push
>> downward on one's knees to get more pedal force.
>>
>> Of course it meant one's hands had to be off the handlebars (ooh,
>> scary!) so the rider was supposed to steer with ropes going from the
>> bars to one's teeth, or something similar.
>>
>> I wouldn't suggest ropes with a round cross section. Airfoil cross
>> sections have about one tenth the aero drag. Efficiency!
>>
>
> Back to the article I guess depends how close to wind tunnel testing it is?
> If it’s close enough and clearly a lot cheaper might be useful tool for
> some racers/teams that for example don’t have Team Ineos budgets!

It sounds like it sort of records what you demonstrate as your optimum
posture, then nags you when you deviate from that posture.

For racers, I can see it having some training benefit, sort of like
having a coach riding alongside you and yelling "Tuck your elbows in!"

I didn't read deeply enough to see if it allows for different postures
for different conditions. I don't compete any more, but if I'm trying to
make time, I use different postures for dead flat, for moderate
downhill, for steep downhill, for headwind, etc.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 13:14:08 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 8/14/2023 8:19 AM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 8/13/2023 8:42 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 5:37:48?PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:09:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> For those not satisfied with GPS, Garmin, electronic shifting, power
>>>>>> meters etc., here's another gizmo:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://road.cc/content/tech-news/could-tiny-sensor-help-you-ride-faster-303163
>>>>> More detail:
>>>>> <https://www.streamlines.aero/forma>
>>>>> "The FORMA mounts to the bike stem and uses range sensing technology
>>>>> to measure the rider's head, chest, and waist position."
>>>>>
>>>>> £475 or $600 USD seems a bit pricey for an electronic string measuring
>>>>> tool. However, if it gives the racer an advantage, it might be money
>>>>> well spent.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder how well it works in a crosswind or while drafting?
>>>>
>>>> Why would that make a difference? Your position is your position, regardless of the wind.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Methinks it's overkill. Measuring the stem to chest and stem to head
>>>>> distances could also be done with two lengths of 2mm (1/16") elastic
>>>>> cord.
>>>>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=2mm+elastic+cord>
>>>>> It would be tight at the optimum aerodynamic distance, slack when the
>>>>> head or chest are too close, or tight when the head or chest is too
>>>>> far away. If you don't like wearing rubber bands, replace the cord
>>>>> with a no-stretch string and take up the slack with two small spring
>>>>> loaded pulleys.
>>>>
>>>> I don't disagree with your overkill comment, but riding with a string
>>>> connecting your upper body to the stem would be dangerous, and likely
>>>> heavily frowned upon by the UCI.
>>>
>>> One April issue of _Buycycling_ magazine, long ago, had a joke article
>>> on a newly developed power trick. It involved using both hands to push
>>> downward on one's knees to get more pedal force.
>>>
>>> Of course it meant one's hands had to be off the handlebars (ooh,
>>> scary!) so the rider was supposed to steer with ropes going from the
>>> bars to one's teeth, or something similar.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't suggest ropes with a round cross section. Airfoil cross
>>> sections have about one tenth the aero drag. Efficiency!
>>>
>>
>> Back to the article I guess depends how close to wind tunnel testing it is?
>> If it’s close enough and clearly a lot cheaper might be useful tool for
>> some racers/teams that for example don’t have Team Ineos budgets!
>
>It sounds like it sort of records what you demonstrate as your optimum
>posture, then nags you when you deviate from that posture.
>
>For racers, I can see it having some training benefit, sort of like
>having a coach riding alongside you and yelling "Tuck your elbows in!"
>
>I didn't read deeply enough to see if it allows for different postures
>for different conditions. I don't compete any more, but if I'm trying to
>make time, I use different postures for dead flat, for moderate
>downhill, for steep downhill, for headwind, etc.

Or for your special 8 or 9 mile rides to the other side of town..

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 8/14/2023 8:19 AM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 8/13/2023 8:42 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 5:37:48 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:09:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> For those not satisfied with GPS, Garmin, electronic shifting, power
>>>>>> meters etc., here's another gizmo:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://road.cc/content/tech-news/could-tiny-sensor-help-you-ride-faster-303163
>>>>> More detail:
>>>>> <https://www.streamlines.aero/forma>
>>>>> "The FORMA mounts to the bike stem and uses range sensing technology
>>>>> to measure the rider's head, chest, and waist position."
>>>>>
>>>>> £475 or $600 USD seems a bit pricey for an electronic string measuring
>>>>> tool. However, if it gives the racer an advantage, it might be money
>>>>> well spent.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder how well it works in a crosswind or while drafting?
>>>>
>>>> Why would that make a difference? Your position is your position,
>>>> regardless of the wind.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Methinks it's overkill. Measuring the stem to chest and stem to head
>>>>> distances could also be done with two lengths of 2mm (1/16") elastic
>>>>> cord.
>>>>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=2mm+elastic+cord>
>>>>> It would be tight at the optimum aerodynamic distance, slack when the
>>>>> head or chest are too close, or tight when the head or chest is too
>>>>> far away. If you don't like wearing rubber bands, replace the cord
>>>>> with a no-stretch string and take up the slack with two small spring
>>>>> loaded pulleys.
>>>>
>>>> I don't disagree with your overkill comment, but riding with a string
>>>> connecting your upper body to the stem would be dangerous, and likely
>>>> heavily frowned upon by the UCI.
>>>
>>> One April issue of _Buycycling_ magazine, long ago, had a joke article
>>> on a newly developed power trick. It involved using both hands to push
>>> downward on one's knees to get more pedal force.
>>>
>>> Of course it meant one's hands had to be off the handlebars (ooh,
>>> scary!) so the rider was supposed to steer with ropes going from the
>>> bars to one's teeth, or something similar.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't suggest ropes with a round cross section. Airfoil cross
>>> sections have about one tenth the aero drag. Efficiency!
>>>
>>
>> Back to the article I guess depends how close to wind tunnel testing it is?
>> If it’s close enough and clearly a lot cheaper might be useful tool for
>> some racers/teams that for example don’t have Team Ineos budgets!
>
> It sounds like it sort of records what you demonstrate as your optimum
> posture, then nags you when you deviate from that posture.
>
> For racers, I can see it having some training benefit, sort of like
> having a coach riding alongside you and yelling "Tuck your elbows in!"
>
> I didn't read deeply enough to see if it allows for different postures
> for different conditions. I don't compete any more, but if I'm trying to
> make time, I use different postures for dead flat, for moderate
> downhill, for steep downhill, for headwind, etc.
>
Having a read on their website, looks like it’s really supposed to be
paired with wind tunnel testing, ie this will help you keep the position,
with the hardware and and software on Garmin and similar.

Looks fairly niche really.

Roger Merriman