I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they have the freedom to die".

I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't show it.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 10:40:36 AM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they have the freedom to die".
>
> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't show it.

I found the right phrase to locate the quote in a search.

> "in our communism country Viet Nam, people are forced to be
> alive and in the western country like US, people are free to
> die from Covid 19 lol" duc ha

What I can't find is anything on the web that I can cite regarding this quote.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 2/1/2022 10:40 AM, Rick C wrote:
> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they have the freedom to die".
>
> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't show it.
>

America is full of the type of "personal responsibility"-bloviator who
meanwhile operates in full confidence that there will always be someone
with some magic to save his ass when he gets deep in the shit.

He tends to find out way too late there's no magic in this world.

On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
> have the freedom to die".
>
> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
> show it.

I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.

This isn't a bad summary for a US audience:

https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_how-cultural-differences-help-asian-countries-beat-covid-19-while-us-struggles/6193224.html

US worships individual freedom to do really stupid things.

Most Asian ocuntries mask wearing when possibly sick was normal fro at
least the 1990's and probably from much earlier still.

City air was all but unbreatheable there in the late 1960's.

https://www.alamy.com/1960s-historical-japanese-commuters-on-the-tokyo-metro-with-the-men-in-raincoats-and-a-japanese-lady-wearing-a-face-pollution-mask-image339801259.html

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-8, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
> > I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
> > official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
> > responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
> > wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
> > form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
> > have the freedom to die".
> >
> > I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
> > show it.
> I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.

It was from Vietnam. Someone here wrote or forwarded the message when Vietnam's cases were low. But shortly after, they have had 10k daily new cases and the quote no longer make sense.

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 2:39:51 PM UTC-5, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-8, Martin Brown wrote:
> > On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
> > > I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
> > > official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
> > > responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
> > > wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
> > > form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
> > > have the freedom to die".
> > >
> > > I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
> > > show it.
> > I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
> It was from Vietnam. Someone here wrote or forwarded the message when Vietnam's cases were low. But shortly after, they have had 10k daily new cases and the quote no longer make sense.

You would think that only if you don't believe there are measures that a government can take that reduces the infection. The infection rate is 12,000 a day at the moment, but the death rate is only 128 and falling. With a population of 100 million, those are really good numbers compared to nearly anywhere, 383 ppm since the beginning of the pandemic and rank of 128. Yeah, that's pretty good.

So the quote still makes good sense.

Interesting that no one reads my second post where I found the quote and the attribution. It has been posted several times by albert. I just can't find an original quote on the web.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 01/02/2022 19:39, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-8, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
>>> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
>>> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
>>> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
>>> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
>>> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
>>> have the freedom to die".
>>>
>>> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
>>> show it.
>> I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
>
> It was from Vietnam. Someone here wrote or forwarded the message when Vietnam's cases were low. But shortly after, they have had 10k daily new cases and the quote no longer make sense.

They are doing one hell of a lot lot better than either the UK (today's
figure is 110k new cases and rising faster again) or the USA. Face
coverings stopped being mandatory in enclosed spaces in England last
Tuesday - the effects of that change are just filtering through.

Japan is still worried but the sumo tournament was close to 50%
attendance last month and although Omicron is rising there it is still
being fairly well contained. They trust their government to be doing the
right thing and are prepared to make sacrifices for the common good.
100% mask wearing compliance amongst the audience.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

tirsdag den 1. februar 2022 kl. 22.16.49 UTC+1 skrev Martin Brown:
> On 01/02/2022 19:39, Ed Lee wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-8, Martin Brown wrote:
> >> On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
> >>> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
> >>> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
> >>> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
> >>> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
> >>> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
> >>> have the freedom to die".
> >>>
> >>> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
> >>> show it.
> >> I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
> >
> > It was from Vietnam. Someone here wrote or forwarded the message when Vietnam's cases were low. But shortly after, they have had 10k daily new cases and the quote no longer make sense.
> They are doing one hell of a lot lot better than either the UK (today's
> figure is 110k new cases and rising faster again) or the USA. Face
> coverings stopped being mandatory in enclosed spaces in England last
> Tuesday - the effects of that change are just filtering through.
>
Denmark has been around 30-50K new cases a day for while.
All restrictions and mandates related to covid were removed today, because even
with the large number of cases it doesn't make sense to have restriction with low
the number of people in hospital for it

On 2/1/2022 21:13, Martin Brown wrote:
>...
>
> US worships individual freedom to do really stupid things.
>

I think this is the right way, people should be free to do things.
And of course doing things includes doing stupid things.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 19:13:45 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
>> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
>> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
>> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
>> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
>> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
>> have the freedom to die".
>>
>> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
>> show it.
>
>
>I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
>
>This isn't a bad summary for a US audience:
>
>https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_how-cultural-differences-help-asian-countries-beat-covid-19-while-us-struggles/6193224.html
>
>US worships individual freedom to do really stupid things.
>
>Most Asian ocuntries mask wearing when possibly sick was normal fro at
>least the 1990's and probably from much earlier still.
>
>City air was all but unbreatheable there in the late 1960's.
>
>https://www.alamy.com/1960s-historical-japanese-commuters-on-the-tokyo-metro-with-the-men-in-raincoats-and-a-japanese-lady-wearing-a-face-pollution-mask-image339801259.html

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jan/31/lockdowns-had-little-or-no-impact-covid-19-deaths-/

"While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to
no public health effects,
they have imposed enormous economic and social costs where they have
been adopted. In
consequence, lockdown policies are ill-founded and should be rejected
as a pandemic policy
instrument."

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

On 2/1/2022 23:16, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 01/02/2022 19:39, Ed Lee wrote:
>> On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-8, Martin Brown wrote:
>>> On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
>>>> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
>>>> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
>>>> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
>>>> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
>>>> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
>>>> have the freedom to die".
>>>>
>>>> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
>>>> show it.
>>> I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
>>
>> It was from Vietnam.  Someone here wrote or forwarded the message when
>> Vietnam's cases were low.  But shortly after, they have had 10k daily
>> new cases and the quote no longer make sense.
>
> They are doing one hell of a lot lot better than either the UK (today's
> figure is 110k new cases and rising faster again) or the USA. Face
> coverings stopped being mandatory in enclosed spaces in England last
> Tuesday - the effects of that change are just filtering through.

I can't see why people are so unwilling to wear masks, as if it is a
big deal. Covid or no covid wearing masks in closed spaces is just
better hygiene and thus less infections. Not many people enjoy having
a running nose for days, although it is not lethal. Yet here we are,
lots of people feel wearing a mask is restricting their rights... the
right to spread whatever infections they are carrying, that is.

On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 8:55:21 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 19:13:45 +0000, Martin Brown
> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
> >> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
> >> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
> >> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
> >> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
> >> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
> >> have the freedom to die".
> >>
> >> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
> >> show it.
> >
> >
> >I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
> >
> >This isn't a bad summary for a US audience:
> >
> >https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_how-cultural-differences-help-asian-countries-beat-covid-19-while-us-struggles/6193224.html
> >
> >US worships individual freedom to do really stupid things.
> >
> >Most Asian ocuntries mask wearing when possibly sick was normal fro at
> >least the 1990's and probably from much earlier still.
> >
> >City air was all but unbreatheable there in the late 1960's.
> >
> >https://www.alamy.com/1960s-historical-japanese-commuters-on-the-tokyo-metro-with-the-men-in-raincoats-and-a-japanese-lady-wearing-a-face-pollution-mask-image339801259.html
> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jan/31/lockdowns-had-little-or-no-impact-covid-19-deaths-/
>
>
> "While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to no public health effects, they have imposed enormous economic and social costs where they have been adopted. In consequence, lockdown policies are ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument."

John Larkin doesn't seem to have noticed the first line of the article. "Lockdowns in the U.S. and Europe had little or no impact in reducing deaths from COVID-19."

People didn't take them seriously enough to have much impact on infection rates. They certainly made a serious difference in Australia. Business didn't like them here either. It's very much the US approach to policies they don't like - find somewhere where they have been implemented badly, and use that to claim that they can never work.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in news:stca63$j4f$1@dont-
email.me:

> On 2/1/2022 21:13, Martin Brown wrote:
>>...
>>
>> US worships individual freedom to do really stupid things.
>>
>
> I think this is the right way, people should be free to do things.
> And of course doing things includes doing stupid things.
>

As long as they are not in public office... fine.

Those individuals, however, need a different fire for their feet to
be held to.

On 02/02/2022 01:25, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 8:55:21 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 19:13:45 +0000, Martin Brown
>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
>>>> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
>>>> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
>>>> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
>>>> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
>>>> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
>>>> have the freedom to die".
>>>>
>>>> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
>>>> show it.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
>>>
>>> This isn't a bad summary for a US audience:
>>>
>>> https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_how-cultural-differences-help-asian-countries-beat-covid-19-while-us-struggles/6193224.html
>>>
>>> US worships individual freedom to do really stupid things.
>>>
>>> Most Asian ocuntries mask wearing when possibly sick was normal fro at
>>> least the 1990's and probably from much earlier still.
>>>
>>> City air was all but unbreatheable there in the late 1960's.
>>>
>>> https://www.alamy.com/1960s-historical-japanese-commuters-on-the-tokyo-metro-with-the-men-in-raincoats-and-a-japanese-lady-wearing-a-face-pollution-mask-image339801259.html
>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jan/31/lockdowns-had-little-or-no-impact-covid-19-deaths-/
>>
>>
>> "While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to no public health effects, they have imposed enormous economic and social costs where they have been adopted. In consequence, lockdown policies are ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument."
>
> John Larkin doesn't seem to have noticed the first line of the article. "Lockdowns in the U.S. and Europe had little or no impact in reducing deaths from COVID-19."

I don't think it was true either. UK would have had a much larger death
toll and an NHS failure if they had not locked down when they did. They
left it until the very last moment to lockdown which meant the disease
was in serious exponential growth doubling every 3 days by the time they
finally lost their nerve. They were going to go for "herd immunity" and
a cull of the elderly and vulnerable but lost their nerve. National
Geographic has a contemporaneous article about the UK's approach:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/uk-backed-off-on-herd-immunity-to-beat-coronavirus-we-need-it

If they had locked down before the Cheltenham Gold Cup and Liverpool vs
Madrid super spreading events we would have been in a much better
position. Likewise for every successive lockdown it was done about 2
weeks to late to do any good.

"Following the science" too late to do any good is Boris's hallmark!

UK didn't help its figures by throwing infected bodies into care homes
untested which was more the action of a medieval villain in a siege than
the government of a civilised country.
>
> People didn't take them seriously enough to have much impact on infection rates. They certainly made a serious difference in Australia. Business didn't like them here either. It's very much the US approach to policies they don't like - find somewhere where they have been implemented badly, and use that to claim that they can never work.
>
Japan seems to demonstrate that targetted lockdowns do work provided
that you have a population that follows government guidance.

Most UK people did take it seriously and follow the rules. Compliance
with lockdown in the UK was much better than the modellers had expected
(with the notable exception of the denizens of No 10). Partygate rumbles
on and The Boris is desparately clinging to power just like Trump did

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 12:52:35 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>On 02/02/2022 01:25, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 8:55:21 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 19:13:45 +0000, Martin Brown
>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
>>>>> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
>>>>> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
>>>>> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
>>>>> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
>>>>> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
>>>>> have the freedom to die".
>>>>>
>>>>> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
>>>>> show it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
>>>>
>>>> This isn't a bad summary for a US audience:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_how-cultural-differences-help-asian-countries-beat-covid-19-while-us-struggles/6193224.html
>>>>
>>>> US worships individual freedom to do really stupid things.
>>>>
>>>> Most Asian ocuntries mask wearing when possibly sick was normal fro at
>>>> least the 1990's and probably from much earlier still.
>>>>
>>>> City air was all but unbreatheable there in the late 1960's.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.alamy.com/1960s-historical-japanese-commuters-on-the-tokyo-metro-with-the-men-in-raincoats-and-a-japanese-lady-wearing-a-face-pollution-mask-image339801259.html
>>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jan/31/lockdowns-had-little-or-no-impact-covid-19-deaths-/
>>>
>>>
>>> "While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to no public health effects, they have imposed enormous economic and social costs where they have been adopted. In consequence, lockdown policies are ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument."
>>
>> John Larkin doesn't seem to have noticed the first line of the article. "Lockdowns in the U.S. and Europe had little or no impact in reducing deaths from COVID-19."
>
>I don't think it was true either. UK would have had a much larger death
>toll and an NHS failure if they had not locked down when they did.

Country-by-country, or stste-by-state, statistics are all over the
place, even in adjacent places with similar climates and demographics.

The data is terrible and the causalities are speculation.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 12:56:15 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 12:52:35 +0000, Martin Brown
> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >On 02/02/2022 01:25, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 8:55:21 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 19:13:45 +0000, Martin Brown
> >>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
> >>>>> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
> >>>>> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
> >>>>> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
> >>>>> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
> >>>>> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
> >>>>> have the freedom to die".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
> >>>>> show it.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
> >>>>
> >>>> This isn't a bad summary for a US audience:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_how-cultural-differences-help-asian-countries-beat-covid-19-while-us-struggles/6193224.html
> >>>>
> >>>> US worships individual freedom to do really stupid things.
> >>>>
> >>>> Most Asian ocuntries mask wearing when possibly sick was normal fro at
> >>>> least the 1990's and probably from much earlier still.
> >>>>
> >>>> City air was all but unbreatheable there in the late 1960's.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.alamy.com/1960s-historical-japanese-commuters-on-the-tokyo-metro-with-the-men-in-raincoats-and-a-japanese-lady-wearing-a-face-pollution-mask-image339801259.html
> >>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jan/31/lockdowns-had-little-or-no-impact-covid-19-deaths-/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to no public health effects, they have imposed enormous economic and social costs where they have been adopted. In consequence, lockdown policies are ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument."
> >>
> >> John Larkin doesn't seem to have noticed the first line of the article.. "Lockdowns in the U.S. and Europe had little or no impact in reducing deaths from COVID-19."
> >
> >I don't think it was true either. UK would have had a much larger death
> >toll and an NHS failure if they had not locked down when they did.
>
> Country-by-country, or state-by-state, statistics are all over the place, even in adjacent places with similar climates and demographics.

It's not the demographics that matter, but the way people behave. Irresponsible idiots spread Covid19 much more rapidly than people who mask up and keep their distance, and some places are less tolerant of this kind of behavior.
> The data is terrible and the causalities are speculation.

Actually the data is complicated, but deaths and hospitalisations are pretty reliable in advanced industrial countries. You've got to make hypotheses and test them to test ideas about plausible causalities, which is what epidemiologists do.

Some countries have done better than others at preventing Covid-19 from killing people, and the one that have done better do seemed to have paid more attention to the epidemiologists. Some of the data-driven speculations do seem to have been useful, but John Larkin doesn't seem to be aware of this.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On 02/02/2022 13:56, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 12:52:35 +0000, Martin Brown
> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 02/02/2022 01:25, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 8:55:21 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 19:13:45 +0000, Martin Brown
>>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
>>>>>> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
>>>>>> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
>>>>>> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
>>>>>> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
>>>>>> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
>>>>>> have the freedom to die".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
>>>>>> show it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
>>>>>
>>>>> This isn't a bad summary for a US audience:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_how-cultural-differences-help-asian-countries-beat-covid-19-while-us-struggles/6193224.html
>>>>>
>>>>> US worships individual freedom to do really stupid things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most Asian ocuntries mask wearing when possibly sick was normal fro at
>>>>> least the 1990's and probably from much earlier still.
>>>>>
>>>>> City air was all but unbreatheable there in the late 1960's.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.alamy.com/1960s-historical-japanese-commuters-on-the-tokyo-metro-with-the-men-in-raincoats-and-a-japanese-lady-wearing-a-face-pollution-mask-image339801259.html
>>>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jan/31/lockdowns-had-little-or-no-impact-covid-19-deaths-/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to no public health effects, they have imposed enormous economic and social costs where they have been adopted. In consequence, lockdown policies are ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument."
>>>
>>> John Larkin doesn't seem to have noticed the first line of the article. "Lockdowns in the U.S. and Europe had little or no impact in reducing deaths from COVID-19."
>>
>> I don't think it was true either. UK would have had a much larger death
>> toll and an NHS failure if they had not locked down when they did.
>
> Country-by-country, or stste-by-state, statistics are all over the
> place, even in adjacent places with similar climates and demographics.

One thing is certain. The pandemic is 10x more likely to kill the people
who have refused the vaccine. Mostly but not exclusively Republicans in
the USA. In the UK vaccine hesitancy correlates more strongly with low
educational achievement and poverty (the two are closely linked).

> The data is terrible and the causalities are speculation.

There is a very strong correlation between countries with a right wing
government and emphasis on individual freedom having much higher Covid
fatality rates than those that are more middle of the road.

Brazil, USA and UK being very obvious examples. All recently run by
narcissistic populist demagogues surrounded by incompetent sycophants.

Bolsinaro, Trump and Johnson they were all for devil take the hindmost.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 02/02/22 16:49, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 02/02/2022 13:56, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 12:52:35 +0000, Martin Brown
>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/02/2022 01:25, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 8:55:21 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 19:13:45 +0000, Martin Brown
>>>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
>>>>>>> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
>>>>>>> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
>>>>>>> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
>>>>>>> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
>>>>>>> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
>>>>>>> have the freedom to die".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
>>>>>>> show it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This isn't a bad summary for a US audience:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_how-cultural-differences-help-asian-countries-beat-covid-19-while-us-struggles/6193224.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> US worships individual freedom to do really stupid things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most Asian ocuntries mask wearing when possibly sick was normal fro at
>>>>>> least the 1990's and probably from much earlier still.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> City air was all but unbreatheable there in the late 1960's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.alamy.com/1960s-historical-japanese-commuters-on-the-tokyo-metro-with-the-men-in-raincoats-and-a-japanese-lady-wearing-a-face-pollution-mask-image339801259.html
>>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jan/31/lockdowns-had-little-or-no-impact-covid-19-deaths-/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to  no
>>>>> public health effects,  they have imposed enormous economic and social
>>>>> costs where they have been adopted. In  consequence, lockdown policies are
>>>>> ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy  instrument."
>>>>
>>>> John  Larkin doesn't seem to have noticed the first line of the article.
>>>> "Lockdowns in the U.S. and Europe had little or no impact in reducing deaths
>>>> from COVID-19."
>>>
>>> I don't think it was true either. UK would have had a much larger death
>>> toll and an NHS failure if they had not locked down when they did.
>>
>> Country-by-country, or stste-by-state, statistics are all over the
>> place, even in adjacent places with similar climates and demographics.
>
> One thing is certain. The pandemic is 10x more likely to kill the people who
> have refused the vaccine. Mostly but not exclusively Republicans in the USA. In
> the UK vaccine hesitancy correlates more strongly with low educational
> achievement and poverty (the two are closely linked).

I've seen reasoned speculation that the low educational
achievement is correlated with a distrust of authority,
and the latter is relevant w.r.t. antivax beliefs.

I imagine that if someone can't understand cause and
effect, there will be a tendency for them to see everything
as random luck or a conspiracy. Rational counterarguments
would have zero effect.

Having said that, if Boris Johnson told me the time,
I would check my watch. Firstly to check he wasn't simply
lying or making it up. Secondly to check his cronies hadn't
stolen my watch.

>> The data is terrible and the causalities are speculation.
>
> There is a very strong correlation between countries with a right wing
> government and emphasis on individual freedom having much higher Covid fatality
> rates than those that are more middle of the road.
>
> Brazil, USA and UK being very obvious examples. All recently run by narcissistic
> populist demagogues surrounded by incompetent sycophants.
>
> Bolsinaro, Trump and Johnson they were all for devil take the hindmost.

/Initially/ there was some scientific opinions that herd
immunity was a valid strategy, but that changed quickly.
UK Politicians were slower to change.

On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 17:04:03 +0000, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>On 02/02/22 16:49, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 02/02/2022 13:56, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 12:52:35 +0000, Martin Brown
>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 02/02/2022 01:25, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 8:55:21 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 19:13:45 +0000, Martin Brown
>>>>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
>>>>>>>> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
>>>>>>>> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
>>>>>>>> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
>>>>>>>> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
>>>>>>>> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
>>>>>>>> have the freedom to die".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
>>>>>>>> show it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This isn't a bad summary for a US audience:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_how-cultural-differences-help-asian-countries-beat-covid-19-while-us-struggles/6193224.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> US worships individual freedom to do really stupid things.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most Asian ocuntries mask wearing when possibly sick was normal fro at
>>>>>>> least the 1990's and probably from much earlier still.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> City air was all but unbreatheable there in the late 1960's.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.alamy.com/1960s-historical-japanese-commuters-on-the-tokyo-metro-with-the-men-in-raincoats-and-a-japanese-lady-wearing-a-face-pollution-mask-image339801259.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jan/31/lockdowns-had-little-or-no-impact-covid-19-deaths-/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to  no
>>>>>> public health effects,  they have imposed enormous economic and social
>>>>>> costs where they have been adopted. In  consequence, lockdown policies are
>>>>>> ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy  instrument."
>>>>>
>>>>> John  Larkin doesn't seem to have noticed the first line of the article.
>>>>> "Lockdowns in the U.S. and Europe had little or no impact in reducing deaths
>>>>> from COVID-19."
>>>>
>>>> I don't think it was true either. UK would have had a much larger death
>>>> toll and an NHS failure if they had not locked down when they did.
>>>
>>> Country-by-country, or stste-by-state, statistics are all over the
>>> place, even in adjacent places with similar climates and demographics.
>>
>> One thing is certain. The pandemic is 10x more likely to kill the people who
>> have refused the vaccine. Mostly but not exclusively Republicans in the USA. In
>> the UK vaccine hesitancy correlates more strongly with low educational
>> achievement and poverty (the two are closely linked).
>
>I've seen reasoned speculation that the low educational
>achievement is correlated with a distrust of authority,
>and the latter is relevant w.r.t. antivax beliefs.
>
>I imagine that if someone can't understand cause and
>effect, there will be a tendency for them to see everything
>as random luck or a conspiracy. Rational counterarguments
>would have zero effect.
>
>Having said that, if Boris Johnson told me the time,
>I would check my watch. Firstly to check he wasn't simply
>lying or making it up. Secondly to check his cronies hadn't
>stolen my watch.
>
>
>>> The data is terrible and the causalities are speculation.
>>
>> There is a very strong correlation between countries with a right wing
>> government and emphasis on individual freedom having much higher Covid fatality
>> rates than those that are more middle of the road.
>>
>> Brazil, USA and UK being very obvious examples. All recently run by narcissistic
>> populist demagogues surrounded by incompetent sycophants.
>>
>> Bolsinaro, Trump and Johnson they were all for devil take the hindmost.
>
>/Initially/ there was some scientific opinions that herd
>immunity was a valid strategy, but that changed quickly.

The new strain seems to infect vaccinated people and to burn itself
out with a case FWHM of about a month, with relatively few deaths.
It's sort of a free vaccine.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

onsdag den 2. februar 2022 kl. 18.19.33 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 17:04:03 +0000, Tom Gardner
> <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >On 02/02/22 16:49, Martin Brown wrote:
> >> On 02/02/2022 13:56, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 12:52:35 +0000, Martin Brown
> >>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 02/02/2022 01:25, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 8:55:21 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
> >>>>>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 19:13:45 +0000, Martin Brown
> >>>>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
> >>>>>>>> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
> >>>>>>>> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
> >>>>>>>> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
> >>>>>>>> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
> >>>>>>>> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
> >>>>>>>> have the freedom to die".
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
> >>>>>>>> show it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This isn't a bad summary for a US audience:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_how-cultural-differences-help-asian-countries-beat-covid-19-while-us-struggles/6193224.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> US worships individual freedom to do really stupid things.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Most Asian ocuntries mask wearing when possibly sick was normal fro at
> >>>>>>> least the 1990's and probably from much earlier still.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> City air was all but unbreatheable there in the late 1960's.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> https://www.alamy.com/1960s-historical-japanese-commuters-on-the-tokyo-metro-with-the-men-in-raincoats-and-a-japanese-lady-wearing-a-face-pollution-mask-image339801259.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jan/31/lockdowns-had-little-or-no-impact-covid-19-deaths-/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to no
> >>>>>> public health effects, they have imposed enormous economic and social
> >>>>>> costs where they have been adopted. In consequence, lockdown policies are
> >>>>>> ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John Larkin doesn't seem to have noticed the first line of the article.
> >>>>> "Lockdowns in the U.S. and Europe had little or no impact in reducing deaths
> >>>>> from COVID-19."
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't think it was true either. UK would have had a much larger death
> >>>> toll and an NHS failure if they had not locked down when they did.
> >>>
> >>> Country-by-country, or stste-by-state, statistics are all over the
> >>> place, even in adjacent places with similar climates and demographics.
> >>
> >> One thing is certain. The pandemic is 10x more likely to kill the people who
> >> have refused the vaccine. Mostly but not exclusively Republicans in the USA. In
> >> the UK vaccine hesitancy correlates more strongly with low educational
> >> achievement and poverty (the two are closely linked).
> >
> >I've seen reasoned speculation that the low educational
> >achievement is correlated with a distrust of authority,
> >and the latter is relevant w.r.t. antivax beliefs.
> >
> >I imagine that if someone can't understand cause and
> >effect, there will be a tendency for them to see everything
> >as random luck or a conspiracy. Rational counterarguments
> >would have zero effect.
> >
> >Having said that, if Boris Johnson told me the time,
> >I would check my watch. Firstly to check he wasn't simply
> >lying or making it up. Secondly to check his cronies hadn't
> >stolen my watch.
> >
> >
> >>> The data is terrible and the causalities are speculation.
> >>
> >> There is a very strong correlation between countries with a right wing
> >> government and emphasis on individual freedom having much higher Covid fatality
> >> rates than those that are more middle of the road.
> >>
> >> Brazil, USA and UK being very obvious examples. All recently run by narcissistic
> >> populist demagogues surrounded by incompetent sycophants.
> >>
> >> Bolsinaro, Trump and Johnson they were all for devil take the hindmost.
> >
> >/Initially/ there was some scientific opinions that herd
> >immunity was a valid strategy, but that changed quickly.
> The new strain seems to infect vaccinated people and to burn itself
> out with a case FWHM of about a month, with relatively few deaths.
> It's sort of a free vaccine.

here +80% is double and +60% triple vaccinated, and we have ~50000 new cases each day
in population of 5.85million

On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 10:36:52 AM UTC-8, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> onsdag den 2. februar 2022 kl. 18.19.33 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
> > On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 17:04:03 +0000, Tom Gardner
> > <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > >On 02/02/22 16:49, Martin Brown wrote:
> > >> On 02/02/2022 13:56, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > >>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 12:52:35 +0000, Martin Brown
> > >>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 02/02/2022 01:25, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > >>>>> On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 8:55:21 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 19:13:45 +0000, Martin Brown
> > >>>>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
> > >>>>>>>> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
> > >>>>>>>> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
> > >>>>>>>> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
> > >>>>>>>> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
> > >>>>>>>> have the freedom to die".
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
> > >>>>>>>> show it.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> This isn't a bad summary for a US audience:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_how-cultural-differences-help-asian-countries-beat-covid-19-while-us-struggles/6193224.html
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> US worships individual freedom to do really stupid things.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Most Asian ocuntries mask wearing when possibly sick was normal fro at
> > >>>>>>> least the 1990's and probably from much earlier still.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> City air was all but unbreatheable there in the late 1960's.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> https://www.alamy.com/1960s-historical-japanese-commuters-on-the-tokyo-metro-with-the-men-in-raincoats-and-a-japanese-lady-wearing-a-face-pollution-mask-image339801259.html
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jan/31/lockdowns-had-little-or-no-impact-covid-19-deaths-/
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> "While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to no
> > >>>>>> public health effects, they have imposed enormous economic and social
> > >>>>>> costs where they have been adopted. In consequence, lockdown policies are
> > >>>>>> ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument."
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> John Larkin doesn't seem to have noticed the first line of the article.
> > >>>>> "Lockdowns in the U.S. and Europe had little or no impact in reducing deaths
> > >>>>> from COVID-19."
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I don't think it was true either. UK would have had a much larger death
> > >>>> toll and an NHS failure if they had not locked down when they did.
> > >>>
> > >>> Country-by-country, or stste-by-state, statistics are all over the
> > >>> place, even in adjacent places with similar climates and demographics.
> > >>
> > >> One thing is certain. The pandemic is 10x more likely to kill the people who
> > >> have refused the vaccine. Mostly but not exclusively Republicans in the USA. In
> > >> the UK vaccine hesitancy correlates more strongly with low educational
> > >> achievement and poverty (the two are closely linked).
> > >
> > >I've seen reasoned speculation that the low educational
> > >achievement is correlated with a distrust of authority,
> > >and the latter is relevant w.r.t. antivax beliefs.
> > >
> > >I imagine that if someone can't understand cause and
> > >effect, there will be a tendency for them to see everything
> > >as random luck or a conspiracy. Rational counterarguments
> > >would have zero effect.
> > >
> > >Having said that, if Boris Johnson told me the time,
> > >I would check my watch. Firstly to check he wasn't simply
> > >lying or making it up. Secondly to check his cronies hadn't
> > >stolen my watch.
> > >
> > >
> > >>> The data is terrible and the causalities are speculation.
> > >>
> > >> There is a very strong correlation between countries with a right wing
> > >> government and emphasis on individual freedom having much higher Covid fatality
> > >> rates than those that are more middle of the road.
> > >>
> > >> Brazil, USA and UK being very obvious examples. All recently run by narcissistic
> > >> populist demagogues surrounded by incompetent sycophants.
> > >>
> > >> Bolsinaro, Trump and Johnson they were all for devil take the hindmost.
> > >
> > >/Initially/ there was some scientific opinions that herd
> > >immunity was a valid strategy, but that changed quickly.
> > The new strain seems to infect vaccinated people and to burn itself
> > out with a case FWHM of about a month, with relatively few deaths.
> > It's sort of a free vaccine.
> here +80% is double and +60% triple vaccinated, and we have ~50000 new cases each day
> in population of 5.85million

Omicron is so different from other Covid-19 that older vaccines won't help much.

onsdag den 2. februar 2022 kl. 19.44.54 UTC+1 skrev Ed Lee:
> On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 10:36:52 AM UTC-8, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> > onsdag den 2. februar 2022 kl. 18.19.33 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
> > > On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 17:04:03 +0000, Tom Gardner
> > > <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > >On 02/02/22 16:49, Martin Brown wrote:
> > > >> On 02/02/2022 13:56, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > > >>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 12:52:35 +0000, Martin Brown
> > > >>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> On 02/02/2022 01:25, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > > >>>>> On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 8:55:21 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
> > > >>>>>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 19:13:45 +0000, Martin Brown
> > > >>>>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
> > > >>>>>>>> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
> > > >>>>>>>> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
> > > >>>>>>>> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
> > > >>>>>>>> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
> > > >>>>>>>> have the freedom to die".
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
> > > >>>>>>>> show it.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> This isn't a bad summary for a US audience:
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_how-cultural-differences-help-asian-countries-beat-covid-19-while-us-struggles/6193224.html
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> US worships individual freedom to do really stupid things.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Most Asian ocuntries mask wearing when possibly sick was normal fro at
> > > >>>>>>> least the 1990's and probably from much earlier still.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> City air was all but unbreatheable there in the late 1960's.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> https://www.alamy.com/1960s-historical-japanese-commuters-on-the-tokyo-metro-with-the-men-in-raincoats-and-a-japanese-lady-wearing-a-face-pollution-mask-image339801259.html
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jan/31/lockdowns-had-little-or-no-impact-covid-19-deaths-/
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> "While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to no
> > > >>>>>> public health effects, they have imposed enormous economic and social
> > > >>>>>> costs where they have been adopted. In consequence, lockdown policies are
> > > >>>>>> ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument."
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> John Larkin doesn't seem to have noticed the first line of the article.
> > > >>>>> "Lockdowns in the U.S. and Europe had little or no impact in reducing deaths
> > > >>>>> from COVID-19."
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I don't think it was true either. UK would have had a much larger death
> > > >>>> toll and an NHS failure if they had not locked down when they did.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Country-by-country, or stste-by-state, statistics are all over the
> > > >>> place, even in adjacent places with similar climates and demographics.
> > > >>
> > > >> One thing is certain. The pandemic is 10x more likely to kill the people who
> > > >> have refused the vaccine. Mostly but not exclusively Republicans in the USA. In
> > > >> the UK vaccine hesitancy correlates more strongly with low educational
> > > >> achievement and poverty (the two are closely linked).
> > > >
> > > >I've seen reasoned speculation that the low educational
> > > >achievement is correlated with a distrust of authority,
> > > >and the latter is relevant w.r.t. antivax beliefs.
> > > >
> > > >I imagine that if someone can't understand cause and
> > > >effect, there will be a tendency for them to see everything
> > > >as random luck or a conspiracy. Rational counterarguments
> > > >would have zero effect.
> > > >
> > > >Having said that, if Boris Johnson told me the time,
> > > >I would check my watch. Firstly to check he wasn't simply
> > > >lying or making it up. Secondly to check his cronies hadn't
> > > >stolen my watch.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>> The data is terrible and the causalities are speculation.
> > > >>
> > > >> There is a very strong correlation between countries with a right wing
> > > >> government and emphasis on individual freedom having much higher Covid fatality
> > > >> rates than those that are more middle of the road.
> > > >>
> > > >> Brazil, USA and UK being very obvious examples. All recently run by narcissistic
> > > >> populist demagogues surrounded by incompetent sycophants.
> > > >>
> > > >> Bolsinaro, Trump and Johnson they were all for devil take the hindmost.
> > > >
> > > >/Initially/ there was some scientific opinions that herd
> > > >immunity was a valid strategy, but that changed quickly.
> > > The new strain seems to infect vaccinated people and to burn itself
> > > out with a case FWHM of about a month, with relatively few deaths.
> > > It's sort of a free vaccine.
> > here +80% is double and +60% triple vaccinated, and we have ~50000 new cases each day
> > in population of 5.85million
> Omicron is so different from other Covid-19 that older vaccines won't help much.

Don't know if it or vaccine or omicron, but even with ~50000 new cases each day the number
in intensive care is 26 and falling, so restrictions no longer makes any sense, which is
why they have been removed as of yesterday

On 02/02/2022 18:19, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 17:04:03 +0000, Tom Gardner

>> /Initially/ there was some scientific opinions that herd
>> immunity was a valid strategy, but that changed quickly.
>
> The new strain seems to infect vaccinated people and to burn itself
> out with a case FWHM of about a month, with relatively few deaths.
> It's sort of a free vaccine.
>

It is a free /booster/ for those who are already fully vaccinated -
unless you have other serious diseases or medical issues, a fully
vaccinated person is unlikely to have more than a couple of days of mild
symptoms with Omicron. They /might/ be unlucky and get seriously ill
despite their vaccines - but the risk is background noise compared to
traffic accidents, unexpected strokes, and any other cause of death that
surrounds is.

If you are not vaccinated, Omicron is a clear and definite risk, and you
should be very careful to avoid it. It is not as big a risk as earlier
strains were, but it is very far from risk-free.

On 02/02/2022 19:44, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 10:36:52 AM UTC-8, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
>> onsdag den 2. februar 2022 kl. 18.19.33 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
>>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 17:04:03 +0000, Tom Gardner

>>>> /Initially/ there was some scientific opinions that herd
>>>> immunity was a valid strategy, but that changed quickly.
>>> The new strain seems to infect vaccinated people and to burn itself
>>> out with a case FWHM of about a month, with relatively few deaths.
>>> It's sort of a free vaccine.
>> here +80% is double and +60% triple vaccinated, and we have ~50000 new cases each day
>> in population of 5.85million
>
> Omicron is so different from other Covid-19 that older vaccines won't help much.
>

That is not remotely true.

Omicron /is/ significantly different, and very much more infectious than
other strains. This means that even those fully vaccinated against
other Covid strains have a high chance of getting Omicron, and become
somewhat infectious themselves.

But statistically speaking, the older vaccines mean that an Omicron
infection will be very mild, very quick, and only mildly infectious.

Without the vaccines, Omicron is a serious disease that is massively
infectious and sends enough people to hospital to overwhelm them. It
won't kill as high a fraction as Delta or have as many people
hospitalised or suffering long-Covid, but it can be crippling to society
and is thoroughly unpleasant.

Get the vaccines, and encourage everyone else to do so. You'll probably
still get Omicron sooner or later, but if you are vaccinated and not
otherwise suffering from serious medical conditions, you'll barely
notice you got the disease.

On 02/02/22 18:44, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 10:36:52 AM UTC-8, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
>> onsdag den 2. februar 2022 kl. 18.19.33 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
>>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 17:04:03 +0000, Tom Gardner
>>> <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 02/02/22 16:49, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>>> On 02/02/2022 13:56, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 12:52:35 +0000, Martin Brown
>>>>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 02/02/2022 01:25, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 8:55:21 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 19:13:45 +0000, Martin Brown
>>>>>>>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 01/02/2022 15:40, Rick C wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I can never find this quote when I am looking for it. A SE Asian
>>>>>>>>>>> official made a remark about how in their country they have mandated
>>>>>>>>>>> responses to Covid and have fewer deaths while in the US things are
>>>>>>>>>>> wide open and we are dying left and right. He said it in a condensed
>>>>>>>>>>> form, something like "We have the freedom to live and in the US they
>>>>>>>>>>> have the freedom to die".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I know it has been posted here a number of times, but searches don't
>>>>>>>>>>> show it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't recognise the quote - it is too impolite to be from Japan.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This isn't a bad summary for a US audience:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_how-cultural-differences-help-asian-countries-beat-covid-19-while-us-struggles/6193224.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> US worships individual freedom to do really stupid things.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Most Asian ocuntries mask wearing when possibly sick was normal fro at
>>>>>>>>>> least the 1990's and probably from much earlier still.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> City air was all but unbreatheable there in the late 1960's.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.alamy.com/1960s-historical-japanese-commuters-on-the-tokyo-metro-with-the-men-in-raincoats-and-a-japanese-lady-wearing-a-face-pollution-mask-image339801259.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jan/31/lockdowns-had-little-or-no-impact-covid-19-deaths-/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to no
>>>>>>>>> public health effects, they have imposed enormous economic and social
>>>>>>>>> costs where they have been adopted. In consequence, lockdown policies are
>>>>>>>>> ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John Larkin doesn't seem to have noticed the first line of the article.
>>>>>>>> "Lockdowns in the U.S. and Europe had little or no impact in reducing deaths
>>>>>>>> from COVID-19."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think it was true either. UK would have had a much larger death
>>>>>>> toll and an NHS failure if they had not locked down when they did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Country-by-country, or stste-by-state, statistics are all over the
>>>>>> place, even in adjacent places with similar climates and demographics.
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing is certain. The pandemic is 10x more likely to kill the people who
>>>>> have refused the vaccine. Mostly but not exclusively Republicans in the USA. In
>>>>> the UK vaccine hesitancy correlates more strongly with low educational
>>>>> achievement and poverty (the two are closely linked).
>>>>
>>>> I've seen reasoned speculation that the low educational
>>>> achievement is correlated with a distrust of authority,
>>>> and the latter is relevant w.r.t. antivax beliefs.
>>>>
>>>> I imagine that if someone can't understand cause and
>>>> effect, there will be a tendency for them to see everything
>>>> as random luck or a conspiracy. Rational counterarguments
>>>> would have zero effect.
>>>>
>>>> Having said that, if Boris Johnson told me the time,
>>>> I would check my watch. Firstly to check he wasn't simply
>>>> lying or making it up. Secondly to check his cronies hadn't
>>>> stolen my watch.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> The data is terrible and the causalities are speculation.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a very strong correlation between countries with a right wing
>>>>> government and emphasis on individual freedom having much higher Covid fatality
>>>>> rates than those that are more middle of the road.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brazil, USA and UK being very obvious examples. All recently run by narcissistic
>>>>> populist demagogues surrounded by incompetent sycophants.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bolsinaro, Trump and Johnson they were all for devil take the hindmost.
>>>>
>>>> /Initially/ there was some scientific opinions that herd
>>>> immunity was a valid strategy, but that changed quickly.
>>> The new strain seems to infect vaccinated people and to burn itself
>>> out with a case FWHM of about a month, with relatively few deaths.
>>> It's sort of a free vaccine.
>> here +80% is double and +60% triple vaccinated, and we have ~50000 new cases each day
>> in population of 5.85million
>
> Omicron is so different from other Covid-19 that older vaccines won't help much.

Two full vaccinations plus a booster is /very/ definitely worth
having for omicron.

The protection against hospitalisation is ~90%.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/boosters-provide-high-level-of-protection-against-death-with-omicron