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tech / sci.physics.relativity / Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

SubjectAuthor
* A Precise Statement of Time DilationRicardo Jimenez
+- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationOdd Bodkin
+* Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilationrotchm
|`- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationRichard Hachel
+* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
|`* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationMaciej Wozniak
| `* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationRicardo Jimenez
|  `* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationStan Fultoni
|   `* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationRicardo Jimenez
|    +- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationOdd Bodkin
|    +* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationStan Fultoni
|    |+- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationOdd Bodkin
|    |`* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationRicardo Jimenez
|    | +- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationTom Roberts
|    | +* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationStan Fultoni
|    | |`* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationOdd Bodkin
|    | | +* Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilationpatdolan
|    | | |`- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationRichard Hachel
|    | | `* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationStan Fultoni
|    | |  `* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationOdd Bodkin
|    | |   `- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationStan Fultoni
|    | +- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
|    | +* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationOdd Bodkin
|    | |+- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationMaciej Wozniak
|    | |`* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationRicardo Jimenez
|    | | +* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationOdd Bodkin
|    | | |+* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationMaciej Wozniak
|    | | ||`* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationJ. J. Lodder
|    | | || `* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationMaciej Wozniak
|    | | ||  `* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationJ. J. Lodder
|    | | ||   `* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationMaciej Wozniak
|    | | ||    `* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationJ. J. Lodder
|    | | ||     `- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationMaciej Wozniak
|    | | |`- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationThe Starmaker
|    | | `* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
|    | |  `* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationRichard Hachel
|    | |   `* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationPaul Alsing
|    | |    `* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationRichard Hachel
|    | |     `* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationPython
|    | |      `- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationMaciej Wozniak
|    | `- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationJ. J. Lodder
|    `- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationRichD
+- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationDono.
`* Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationJ. J. Lodder
 `- Re: A Precise Statement of Time DilationMaciej Wozniak

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Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

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Subject: Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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 by: Maciej Wozniak - Mon, 2 May 2022 12:08 UTC

On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 13:27:40 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Ricardo Jimenez <rick...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Assume the standard configuration where (t,x) are the coordinates in
> > the rest frame. Thus the origin's world line is x=0 in the rest
> > frame. There is also an inertial moving frame with coordinates
> > (t',x'). It shares a common origin (event (0,0)) with the rest frame
> > and it's origin's world line is x=vt, |v| < c, in the rest frame. Then
> > for any event on the world line x=vt, the respective time coordinates
> > have the relationship, t=gamma*t'.
> >
> > Does this statement have any non trivial generalizations? Is there an
> > easy proof that doesn't appeal to adding a third dimension to make a
> > light clock argument? TIA.
> There is nothing to prove, it is an a-priori.
> Space-time has local Lorentz invariance by postulate. (Einstein 1905)
> This means that space and time must be measured in such a way
> that local Lorentz invariance holds.

A pity that GPS staff didn't understand that we're FORCED
and make clocks measuring t'=t, like all serious clocks
always did. Common sense was warning your idiot guru.

> If you measure something else, that only means
> that you have set up your measurements
> in a way that is somehow wrong.

Sure, GPS is evil. Don't you think it should be banned?

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

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From: ricky...@earthlink.net (Ricardo Jimenez)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation
Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 10:22:24 -0400
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 by: Ricardo Jimenez - Mon, 2 May 2022 14:22 UTC

On Mon, 2 May 2022 03:17:44 -0000 (UTC), Odd Bodkin
<bodkinodd@gmail.com> wrote:

>If you thought that physics could be subject to the same methodologies as
>mathematical analysis, then I’m afraid you have the wrong idea of what
>science is about.

When you use mathematics to describe and predict physical phenomena,
you identify units and observables that you attach to the mathematical
models. But I don't think that in deriving results from those models
one should jettison rigor and precision that is a necessary part of
the mathematics.

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

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Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation
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 by: Odd Bodkin - Mon, 2 May 2022 15:34 UTC

Ricardo Jimenez <rickyjim@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 2 May 2022 03:17:44 -0000 (UTC), Odd Bodkin
> <bodkinodd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you thought that physics could be subject to the same methodologies as
>> mathematical analysis, then I’m afraid you have the wrong idea of what
>> science is about.
>
> When you use mathematics to describe and predict physical phenomena,
> you identify units and observables that you attach to the mathematical
> models. But I don't think that in deriving results from those models
> one should jettison rigor and precision that is a necessary part of
> the mathematics.
>

I’m not sure what kind of rigor you think is being jettisoned.

Hypotheses can be unusual or unexpected, but the conclusions that are drawn
from them are developed from solid deductive reasoning. If those
conclusions compare favorably to experimental measurement, then those
measurements give support to the credence of the hypotheses.

--
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

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Subject: Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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 by: Maciej Wozniak - Mon, 2 May 2022 18:58 UTC

On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 17:34:08 UTC+2, bodk...@gmail.com wrote:

> I’m not sure what kind of rigor you think is being jettisoned.
>
> Hypotheses can be unusual or unexpected, but the conclusions that are drawn
> from them are developed from solid deductive reasoning. If those
> conclusions compare favorably to experimental measurement, then those
> measurements give support to the credence of the hypotheses.

Repeating this primitive bullshit won't make it true,
and some thinkers more competent than poor idiot
Popper knew better.

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

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Subject: Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation
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 by: The Starmaker - Mon, 2 May 2022 22:32 UTC

Odd Bodkin wrote:
>
> Ricardo Jimenez <rickyjim@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2 May 2022 03:17:44 -0000 (UTC), Odd Bodkin
> > <bodkinodd@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> If you thought that physics could be subject to the same methodologies as
> >> mathematical analysis, then I’m afraid you have the wrong idea of what
> >> science is about.
> >
> > When you use mathematics to describe and predict physical phenomena,
> > you identify units and observables that you attach to the mathematical
> > models. But I don't think that in deriving results from those models
> > one should jettison rigor and precision that is a necessary part of
> > the mathematics.
> >
>
> I’m not sure what kind of rigor you think is being jettisoned.
>
> Hypotheses can be unusual or unexpected, but the conclusions that are drawn
> from them are developed from solid deductive reasoning. If those
> conclusions compare favorably to experimental measurement, then those
> measurements give support to the credence of the hypotheses.
>
> --
> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

You cannot use Mathematics to drop an atomic bomb. You have to use
experimental measurement when the math doesn't work.

--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
and challenge
the unchallengeable.

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

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 by: RichD - Mon, 2 May 2022 22:54 UTC

On May 1, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> I have never seen a rigorous Lorentz transform derivation that didn't
> assume time dilation has already been established,

A. Einstein, "On the electrodynamics of moving bodies,"
Annalen der Physik, Vol. 17

--
Rich

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

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Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 02:30:15 +0200
Organization: PointedEars Software (PES)
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Reply-To: Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <usenet@PointedEars.de>
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 by: Thomas 'Pointed - Tue, 3 May 2022 00:30 UTC

Ricardo Jimenez wrote:

> On Mon, 2 May 2022 03:17:44 -0000 (UTC), Odd Bodkin
> <bodkinodd@gmail.com> wrote:
>>If you thought that physics could be subject to the same methodologies as
>>mathematical analysis, then I’m afraid you have the wrong idea of what
>>science is about.
>
> When you use mathematics to describe and predict physical phenomena,
> you identify units and observables that you attach to the mathematical
> models. But I don't think that in deriving results from those models
> one should jettison rigor and precision that is a necessary part of
> the mathematics.

There is nothing wrong with the mathematics of special relativity; you just
do not understand it.

Probably because you have not even studied it yet.

PointedEars
--
Q: What did the nuclear physicist post on the laboratory door
when he went camping?
A: 'Gone fission'.
(from: WolframAlpha)

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

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From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Tue, 3 May 2022 02:03 UTC

Le 03/05/2022 à 02:30, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn a écrit :
> Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2 May 2022 03:17:44 -0000 (UTC), Odd Bodkin
>> <bodkinodd@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>If you thought that physics could be subject to the same methodologies as
>>>mathematical analysis, then I’m afraid you have the wrong idea of what
>>>science is about.
>>
>> When you use mathematics to describe and predict physical phenomena,
>> you identify units and observables that you attach to the mathematical
>> models. But I don't think that in deriving results from those models
>> one should jettison rigor and precision that is a necessary part of
>> the mathematics.
>
> There is nothing wrong with the mathematics of special relativity; you just
> do not understand it.
>
> Probably because you have not even studied it yet.

Are you sure?

Not studied?

Nothing realy wrong?

Optimist, Pointedears.

>
>
> PointedEars

R.H.

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

<f042520b-a290-4129-915d-9f794ce50e1dn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation
From: pnals...@gmail.com (Paul Alsing)
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 by: Paul Alsing - Tue, 3 May 2022 03:03 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 7:03:57 PM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
> Le 03/05/2022 à 02:30, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn a écrit :
> > Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 2 May 2022 03:17:44 -0000 (UTC), Odd Bodkin
> >> <bodk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>If you thought that physics could be subject to the same methodologies as
> >>>mathematical analysis, then I’m afraid you have the wrong idea of what
> >>>science is about.
> >>
> >> When you use mathematics to describe and predict physical phenomena,
> >> you identify units and observables that you attach to the mathematical
> >> models. But I don't think that in deriving results from those models
> >> one should jettison rigor and precision that is a necessary part of
> >> the mathematics.
> >
> > There is nothing wrong with the mathematics of special relativity; you just
> > do not understand it.
> >
> > Probably because you have not even studied it yet.

> Are you sure?
>
> Not studied?

I think most people here agree that you have not studied relativity. It is not all that hard to determine, from your responses, which are mostly worthless...

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

<1prcmpy.1kh97cfm3j2pN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 08:18:22 +0200
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Tue, 3 May 2022 06:18 UTC

Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 17:34:08 UTC+2, bodk...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure what kind of rigor you think is being jettisoned.
> >
> > Hypotheses can be unusual or unexpected, but the conclusions that are drawn
> > from them are developed from solid deductive reasoning. If those
> > conclusions compare favorably to experimental measurement, then those
> > measurements give support to the credence of the hypotheses.
>
> Repeating this primitive bullshit won't make it true,
> and some thinkers more competent than poor idiot
> Popper knew better.

Certainly. Popper lionised Einstein as -the- perfect example
of how science should be done,

Jan

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

<df0bafc8-f4e2-45be-9113-b9965d3e7c5fn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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 by: Maciej Wozniak - Tue, 3 May 2022 06:57 UTC

On Tuesday, 3 May 2022 at 08:18:26 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 17:34:08 UTC+2, bodk...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not sure what kind of rigor you think is being jettisoned.
> > >
> > > Hypotheses can be unusual or unexpected, but the conclusions that are drawn
> > > from them are developed from solid deductive reasoning. If those
> > > conclusions compare favorably to experimental measurement, then those
> > > measurements give support to the credence of the hypotheses.
> >
> > Repeating this primitive bullshit won't make it true,
> > and some thinkers more competent than poor idiot
> > Popper knew better.
> Certainly. Popper lionised Einstein as -the- perfect example
> of how science should be done,

Certainly; or rather he simply prepared a primitive
excuse for the madness of E and his obeyers.
Of course, only such primitive fools like you or
Bod can believe that science can work such a
primitive way.

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

<1prdiem.tkz1oo16ua8gpN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
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Subject: Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Tue, 3 May 2022 08:09 UTC

Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, 3 May 2022 at 08:18:26 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 17:34:08 UTC+2, bodk...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm not sure what kind of rigor you think is being jettisoned.
> > > >
> > > > Hypotheses can be unusual or unexpected, but the conclusions that
> > > > are drawn from them are developed from solid deductive reasoning. If
> > > > those conclusions compare favorably to experimental measurement,
> > > > then those measurements give support to the credence of the
> > > > hypotheses.
> > >
> > > Repeating this primitive bullshit won't make it true,
> > > and some thinkers more competent than poor idiot
> > > Popper knew better.
> > Certainly. Popper lionised Einstein as -the- perfect example
> > of how science should be done,
>
> Certainly; or rather he simply prepared a primitive
> excuse for the madness of E and his obeyers.
> Of course, only such primitive fools like you or
> Bod can believe that science can work such a
> primitive way.

Popper certainly did, and Popper himself gave Einstein's
light deflection prediction, and Eddigton's confirmation of it
as an example of just the right way to proceed in science.
It was what got him thinking about science to begin with.

It seems that you know as little about Popper and his falsificationism
as about everything else,

Jan

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

<08e8d5da-51c0-4639-922b-597d6d15fd69n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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 by: Maciej Wozniak - Tue, 3 May 2022 09:05 UTC

On Tuesday, 3 May 2022 at 10:09:09 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, 3 May 2022 at 08:18:26 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 17:34:08 UTC+2, bodk...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'm not sure what kind of rigor you think is being jettisoned.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hypotheses can be unusual or unexpected, but the conclusions that
> > > > > are drawn from them are developed from solid deductive reasoning. If
> > > > > those conclusions compare favorably to experimental measurement,
> > > > > then those measurements give support to the credence of the
> > > > > hypotheses.
> > > >
> > > > Repeating this primitive bullshit won't make it true,
> > > > and some thinkers more competent than poor idiot
> > > > Popper knew better.
> > > Certainly. Popper lionised Einstein as -the- perfect example
> > > of how science should be done,
> >
> > Certainly; or rather he simply prepared a primitive
> > excuse for the madness of E and his obeyers.
> > Of course, only such primitive fools like you or
> > Bod can believe that science can work such a
> > primitive way.
> Popper certainly did

Too bad for the poor idiot.
Thinkers more competent (Poincare, Kuhn, Lakatos)
knew better; though, of course, they were unable to
describe more than some minor details. It's a job for
a team of information engineers, not for single amateurs,
even smart ones.

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

<1prdj27.1sonpaj16ysfolN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 13:31:08 +0200
Organization: De Ster
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Tue, 3 May 2022 11:31 UTC

Ricardo Jimenez <rickyjim@earthlink.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 1 May 2022 14:46:54 -0700 (PDT), Stan Fultoni
> <fultonistan@gmail.com> wrote:
[-]
> >The combination of those two things is not sufficient to serve as a
> >starting point, because the Michelson experiment, by itself, doesn't
> >constrain the single degree of freedom. Remember, Einstein cited failure
> >of the ether drift experiments not in support of his light speed
> >principle, but merely in support of the relativity principle. He did not
> >make the mistake of confusing them. Hopefully Mills doesn't really make
> >the mistake that you attribute to him.
>
> I am getting the feeling that the notion of rigorous mathematical
> proof is alien to most of the posters here.

Have you considered the possibility that the problem with you and your
feelings might be with you and your misunderstandings?

> Well, Newton and Einstein
> have long been criticized for often being deficient in that area too.

Like Euler, the greatest mathematician of all time,
to name just one obvious example.

> No contemporary mathematician would accept Newton's laws of motion and
> Einstein's relativity postulates, as their authors stated them, as
> mathematical axioms. The best that can be said about them, from such
> a point of view, is that they are intuitive modeling principles that
> might guide one in writing down real axioms that can be used in
> setting up a mathematical model.

Your problems, I'm afraid,

Jan

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

<1prdsep.1ud9ynvpjrozeN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 13:51:32 +0200
Organization: De Ster
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Tue, 3 May 2022 11:51 UTC

Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, 3 May 2022 at 10:09:09 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tuesday, 3 May 2022 at 08:18:26 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 17:34:08 UTC+2, bodk...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not sure what kind of rigor you think is being jettisoned.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hypotheses can be unusual or unexpected, but the conclusions that
> > > > > > are drawn from them are developed from solid deductive reasoning. If
> > > > > > those conclusions compare favorably to experimental measurement,
> > > > > > then those measurements give support to the credence of the
> > > > > > hypotheses.
> > > > >
> > > > > Repeating this primitive bullshit won't make it true,
> > > > > and some thinkers more competent than poor idiot
> > > > > Popper knew better.
> > > > Certainly. Popper lionised Einstein as -the- perfect example
> > > > of how science should be done,
> > >
> > > Certainly; or rather he simply prepared a primitive
> > > excuse for the madness of E and his obeyers.
> > > Of course, only such primitive fools like you or
> > > Bod can believe that science can work such a
> > > primitive way.
> > Popper certainly did
>
> Too bad for the poor idiot.
> Thinkers more competent (Poincare, Kuhn, Lakatos)
> knew better; though, of course, they were unable to
> describe more than some minor details. It's a job for
> a team of information engineers, not for single amateurs,
> even smart ones.

YOU introduced Popper, and YOU said he knew better,
apparently without knowing what Popper really said, [1]

Jan

[1] For others: Popper wanted to find reasons why Einstein for example
is a prime example of real science,
and why Marxist 'historical materialism' is not.
After ten years of thinking about it he came up
with his falsificationism.
Einstein's predictions (starlight will be deflected) are falsifiable,
those of Marx (proletarian revolution is inevitable) are not.

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

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Subject: Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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 by: Maciej Wozniak - Tue, 3 May 2022 11:59 UTC

On Tuesday, 3 May 2022 at 13:51:35 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, 3 May 2022 at 10:09:09 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tuesday, 3 May 2022 at 08:18:26 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > > Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 17:34:08 UTC+2, bodk...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm not sure what kind of rigor you think is being jettisoned.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hypotheses can be unusual or unexpected, but the conclusions that
> > > > > > > are drawn from them are developed from solid deductive reasoning. If
> > > > > > > those conclusions compare favorably to experimental measurement,
> > > > > > > then those measurements give support to the credence of the
> > > > > > > hypotheses.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Repeating this primitive bullshit won't make it true,
> > > > > > and some thinkers more competent than poor idiot
> > > > > > Popper knew better.
> > > > > Certainly. Popper lionised Einstein as -the- perfect example
> > > > > of how science should be done,
> > > >
> > > > Certainly; or rather he simply prepared a primitive
> > > > excuse for the madness of E and his obeyers.
> > > > Of course, only such primitive fools like you or
> > > > Bod can believe that science can work such a
> > > > primitive way.
> > > Popper certainly did
> >
> > Too bad for the poor idiot.
> > Thinkers more competent (Poincare, Kuhn, Lakatos)
> > knew better; though, of course, they were unable to
> > describe more than some minor details. It's a job for
> > a team of information engineers, not for single amateurs,
> > even smart ones.
> YOU introduced Popper, and YOU said he knew better,

Learn to read, poor halfbrain, it's an useful ability.

> [1] For others: Popper wanted to find reasons why Einstein for example
> is a prime example of real science,

That's right. Thinkers wanting to find the reasons why
communism was the best political system ever have
got the results of similiar value.

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

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From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Tue, 3 May 2022 15:10 UTC

Le 03/05/2022 à 05:03, Paul Alsing a écrit :
> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 7:03:57 PM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
>> Le 03/05/2022 à 02:30, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn a écrit :
>> > Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 2 May 2022 03:17:44 -0000 (UTC), Odd Bodkin
>> >> <bodk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>If you thought that physics could be subject to the same methodologies as
>> >>>mathematical analysis, then I’m afraid you have the wrong idea of what
>> >>>science is about.
>> >>
>> >> When you use mathematics to describe and predict physical phenomena,
>> >> you identify units and observables that you attach to the mathematical
>> >> models. But I don't think that in deriving results from those models
>> >> one should jettison rigor and precision that is a necessary part of
>> >> the mathematics.
>> >
>> > There is nothing wrong with the mathematics of special relativity; you just
>> > do not understand it.
>> >
>> > Probably because you have not even studied it yet.
>
>> Are you sure?
>>
>> Not studied?
>
> I think most people here agree that you have not studied relativity. It is not
> all that hard to determine, from your responses, which are mostly worthless...

No. YOU, you say that most of my answers are worthless.

Don't worry, I've always been told that all my life and all over the
place.

This is called: ease.

I know the cause, of course.

Three terrible criteria that drag humanity into decay and hatred.

- jealousy,
- arrogance
- laziness

R.H.

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

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From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Tue, 3 May 2022 21:43 UTC

Le 02/05/2022 à 05:30, patdolan a écrit :
> Citizen Jimenez has already publish much remarkable work in this forum. I am
> eager to study this latest production of his. But the argument for which posterity
> will remember Citizen Jimenez is the one he made a few months back concerning the
> absolute nature of relative motion. According to the LTs, relative motion [ the
> "v" in the LTs ] is an absolute quantity not subject the the principle of
> relativity. This is quite curious (and quite ad hoc) when you consider that the
> constituent parts of motion, x and t, are easily transformed into x' and t'. So
> why not transform v into v' ? There is no v' in relativity, by fiat and nothing
> more. Even though it is easy to calculate v':
>
> v' = ∆x'/∆t' = g(x-vt)/g(t-vx/c^2)
>
> But to calculate v' is to deliver a fatal blow to the entire relativistic
> enterprise; which is left as an exercise for the reader.
>
> The clear thinking world thanks you for your insight Citizen Jimenez.

It just shows that Vo and Vo' are invariant, and they equal the speed of
light.

Vo=x/To=c

Vo'=x'/to'=c

Digital Application:
Vo=0.8c
E=(12,9,0,15)
E'=(40,9,0,-41)

12²+9²=15²

40²+9²=41²

(a²+b²)/To²=c²

(a'²+b'²)/To'²=c²

R.H.

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

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 by: Python - Tue, 3 May 2022 22:28 UTC

Richard "Hachel" Lengrand (M.D.) wrote:
> Le 03/05/2022 à 05:03, Paul Alsing a écrit :
>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 7:03:57 PM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
>>> Le 03/05/2022 à 02:30, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn a écrit : > Ricardo
>>> Jimenez wrote: > >> On Mon, 2 May 2022 03:17:44 -0000 (UTC), Odd
>>> Bodkin >> <bodk...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>If you thought that physics
>>> could be subject to the same methodologies as >>>mathematical
>>> analysis, then I’m afraid you have the wrong idea of what >>>science
>>> is about. >> >> When you use mathematics to describe and predict
>>> physical phenomena, >> you identify units and observables that you
>>> attach to the mathematical >> models. But I don't think that in
>>> deriving results from those models >> one should jettison rigor and
>>> precision that is a necessary part of >> the mathematics. > > There
>>> is nothing wrong with the mathematics of special relativity; you just
>>> > do not understand it. > > Probably because you have not even
>>> studied it yet.
>>
>>> Are you sure?
>>> Not studied?
>>
>> I think most people here agree that you have not studied relativity.
>> It is not all that hard to determine, from your responses, which are
>> mostly worthless...
>
>
> No. YOU, you say that most of my answers are worthless.

He says, and he can prove that they are worthless (and WRONG).

> Don't worry, I've always been told that all my life and all over the place.

There is a pattern here. Everyone but you driving on the wrong side of
the road?

Really? You lost grasp on reality quite a long time ago Richard.
You really are a pathological case.

> This is called: ease.
>
> I know the cause, of course.
>
> Three terrible criteria that drag humanity into decay and hatred.

Humanity? No. You, definitely.

> - jealousy,
> - arrogance
> - laziness

Yep, all three are YOURS, all three are HUGE.

Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation

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Subject: Re: A Precise Statement of Time Dilation
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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 by: Maciej Wozniak - Wed, 4 May 2022 04:42 UTC

On Wednesday, 4 May 2022 at 00:28:25 UTC+2, Python wrote:
> Richard "Hachel" Lengrand (M.D.) wrote:
> > Le 03/05/2022 à 05:03, Paul Alsing a écrit :
> >> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 7:03:57 PM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
> >>> Le 03/05/2022 à 02:30, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn a écrit : > Ricardo
> >>> Jimenez wrote: > >> On Mon, 2 May 2022 03:17:44 -0000 (UTC), Odd
> >>> Bodkin >> <bodk...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>If you thought that physics
> >>> could be subject to the same methodologies as >>>mathematical
> >>> analysis, then I’m afraid you have the wrong idea of what >>>science
> >>> is about. >> >> When you use mathematics to describe and predict
> >>> physical phenomena, >> you identify units and observables that you
> >>> attach to the mathematical >> models. But I don't think that in
> >>> deriving results from those models >> one should jettison rigor and
> >>> precision that is a necessary part of >> the mathematics. > > There
> >>> is nothing wrong with the mathematics of special relativity; you just
> >>> > do not understand it. > > Probably because you have not even
> >>> studied it yet.
> >>
> >>> Are you sure?
> >>> Not studied?
> >>
> >> I think most people here agree that you have not studied relativity.
> >> It is not all that hard to determine, from your responses, which are
> >> mostly worthless...
> >
> >
> > No. YOU, you say that most of my answers are worthless.
> He says, and he can prove that they are worthless (and WRONG).

Oh, stinker Python is opening its muzzle again,
and trying to pretend he knows something.
Tell me, poor stinker, what is your definition of
a "theory" in the terms of Peano arithmetic?
See: if a theorem is going to be a part of a theory,
it has to be formulable in the language of the
theory. Do you get it? Or are you too stupid even for
that, poor stinker?

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