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tech / sci.physics.relativity / Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecility

SubjectAuthor
* Aioe.orgThe Starmaker
+* Re: Aioe.orgRichard Hertz
|+* Re: Aioe.orgThe Starmaker
||+- Re: Aioe.orgRichard Hertz
||`- Re: Aioe.orgThe Starmaker
|`* Re: Aioe.orgJ. J. Lodder
| `* Re: Aioe.orgRoss A. Finlayson
|  `* Re: Aioe.orgRichard Hertz
|   +* Re: Aioe.orgPaparios
|   |`- Re: Aioe.orgRichard Hertz
|   `* Re: Aioe.orgJ. J. Lodder
|    `* Re: Aioe.orgMaciej Wozniak
|     `* Re: Aioe.orgwhodat
|      +* Re: Aioe.orgMaciej Wozniak
|      |`* Re: Aioe.orgJ. J. Lodder
|      | `- Re: Aioe.orgMaciej Wozniak
|      +* Re: Aioe.orgRichard Hertz
|      |+- Re: Aioe.orgRoss A. Finlayson
|      |`* Re: Aioe.orgJ. J. Lodder
|      | `* Re: Aioe.orgRichard Hertz
|      |  `* Re: Aioe.orgJ. J. Lodder
|      |   +* Re: Aioe.orgRichard Hertz
|      |   |+* Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityDono.
|      |   ||+* Re:Richard Hertz
|      |   |||`* Utter cretin Dick Heratz keeps on eating shitDono.
|      |   ||| `* Re: Utter cretin Dick Heratz keeps on eating shitRichard Hertz
|      |   |||  `* Re: Utter cretin Dick Heratz keeps on eating shitDono.
|      |   |||   `- Re: Utter cretin Dick Heratz keeps on eating shitMaciej Wozniak
|      |   ||+- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityThe Starmaker
|      |   ||`* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   || `* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityDono.
|      |   ||  +* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   ||  |+* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityDono.
|      |   ||  ||+* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityMaciej Wozniak
|      |   ||  |||+- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityDono.
|      |   ||  |||`- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityMaciej Wozniak
|      |   ||  ||`* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   ||  || +* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityDono.
|      |   ||  || |`* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   ||  || | `* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityDono.
|      |   ||  || |  `- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   ||  || `- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityMaciej Wozniak
|      |   ||  |`- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityMaciej Wozniak
|      |   ||  `* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityProkaryotic Capase Homolog
|      |   ||   +- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityDono.
|      |   ||   +* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   ||   |+* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityProkaryotic Capase Homolog
|      |   ||   ||+- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   ||   ||`* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityProkaryotic Capase Homolog
|      |   ||   || +* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   ||   || |+* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityRichD
|      |   ||   || ||`- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   ||   || |`* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityrotchm
|      |   ||   || | `- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   ||   || +- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityMaciej Wozniak
|      |   ||   || +* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityProkaryotic Capase Homolog
|      |   ||   || |`* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   ||   || | `- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityMaciej Wozniak
|      |   ||   || +- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityRichard Hertz
|      |   ||   || `- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityMaciej Wozniak
|      |   ||   |`* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityStan Fultoni
|      |   ||   | +- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilitypatdolan
|      |   ||   | +- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilitypatdolan
|      |   ||   | +- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   ||   | +* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityStan Fultoni
|      |   ||   | |+- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   ||   | |+* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityStan Fultoni
|      |   ||   | ||`* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   ||   | || +* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityStan Fultoni
|      |   ||   | || |`- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   ||   | || `- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityMaciej Wozniak
|      |   ||   | |`- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityMaciej Wozniak
|      |   ||   | +* Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityRoss A. Finlayson
|      |   ||   | |`- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityJ. J. Lodder
|      |   ||   | +- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityMaciej Wozniak
|      |   ||   | `- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityRoss A. Finlayson
|      |   ||   `- Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecilityRichD
|      |   |`* Re: Aioe.orgJ. J. Lodder
|      |   | `* Re: Aioe.orgMaciej Wozniak
|      |   |  `* Re: Aioe.orgJ. J. Lodder
|      |   |   `* Re: Aioe.orgMaciej Wozniak
|      |   |    `* Re: Aioe.orgJ. J. Lodder
|      |   |     `- Re: Aioe.orgMaciej Wozniak
|      |   `- Re: Aioe.orgMaciej Wozniak
|      `* Re: Aioe.orgwhodat
|       +- Re: Aioe.orgJ. J. Lodder
|       `* Re: Aioe.orgMaciej Wozniak
|        `* Re: Aioe.orgwhodat
|         +* Re: Aioe.orgMaciej Wozniak
|         |`* Re: Aioe.orgwhodat
|         | +* Re: Aioe.orgMaciej Wozniak
|         | |`* Re: Aioe.orgwhodat
|         | | `- Re: Aioe.orgMaciej Wozniak
|         | `* Re: Aioe.orgRichard Hertz
|         |  `* Crank Dick Hertz eats shitDono.
|         |   `- Re: Crank Dick Hertz eats shitMaciej Wozniak
|         `* Re: Aioe.orgpatdolan
|          `- Re: Aioe.orgJ. J. Lodder
+* Re: Aioe.orgJ. J. Lodder
|`* Re: Aioe.orgRichard Hertz
| `- Re: Aioe.orgRichard Hertz
+- Re: Aioe.orgRichard Hertz
+* Re: Aioe.orgClutterfreak
`* Re: Aioe.orgpatdolan

Pages:123456
Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecility

<1prnlmi.xx4w0j1rqi12bN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=89864&group=sci.physics.relativity#89864

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecility
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 21:22:58 +0200
Organization: De Ster
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Reply-To: jjlax32@xs4all.nl (J. J. Lodder)
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Sun, 8 May 2022 19:22 UTC

Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 9:15:48 AM UTC-5, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.c...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 1:57:18 AM UTC-5, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.c...@gmail.com>
> > >
> > > > > Basically, your entire argument was based on your
> > > > > complete misunderstanding of the trivial point that
> > > > > I was making to woz, that a pulsar cannot be used
> > > > > as a timekeeper for local time.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, and on that you are mistaken.
> > > > There is no difference of principle
> > > > between using the rotation of the Earth as a timekeeper
> > > > (which humans did for millennia)
> > > > and using the rotation of pulsars.
> > > > The only question with that is what kind of accuracy you can achieve.
> > >
> > > (sigh)
> > >
> > > Pulsars are not local to the Earth.
> > Who said they were?
> > > Y There is no difference of principle
> > between using the rotation of the Earth as a timekeeper
> > (which humans did for millennia)
> > and using the rotation of pulsars.
> > >
> > > You cannot use the signals of two distant pulsars
> > > to drive a clock yielding local time.
> > >
> > > You cannot use the signals of three distant pulsars
> > > to drive a clock yielding local time.
> > >
> > > As an absolute minimum, you need the signals of
> > > four distant pulsars, and preferably more so that
> > > glitches can be detected and compensated for.
> > Yes, and so what? You need an ensemble of them.
> > (as said all along)
>
> I had just written, "a pulsar cannot be used as a
> timekeeper for local time." Do you know what the
> word "a" means, as in "a pulsar"? Singular, correct?
> Not an ensemble of pulsars? *
>
> It is clear that further debate with you will not be
> fruitful. You are determined never to lose, never to
> admit that you could possibly have made a simple
> error in misreading a sentence, and you feel
> compelled to rewrite history to make your point.
>
> Elsewhere, Stan noted that your multiple misspellings
> of Schwarzschild could be likened to crackpots'
> deliberate misspellings of "Einstien", "Hawkins",
> "Feynmann", etc.
>
> I would consider your insistence on being right at all
> costs is another trait that you share with crackpots.
> And with Dono, of course.
>
> =============================================
> * Even an ensemble of pulsars cannot be used for
> determination of local time, since the ensemble is not
> portable. Can you carry the ensemble of pulsars to
> the top of a mountain to compare local time measured
> there with the local time measured at the bottom of
> a silver mine?

You have completely failed to understand what this is all about,
in the way of physics.
Resorting to quarrel picking may be the way of sci.physics.relativity,
but there is no point to it.

I'll leave you to your own,

Jan

Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecility

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Subject: Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecility
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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 by: Maciej Wozniak - Sun, 8 May 2022 19:59 UTC

On Sunday, 8 May 2022 at 21:23:00 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.c...@gmail.com>
> You have completely failed to understand what this is all about,
> in the way of physics.

Nothing surprising, all of your bunch of idiots did.

Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecility

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Subject: Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecility
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
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 by: Stan Fultoni - Sun, 8 May 2022 20:11 UTC

On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 12:22:58 PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote:
(1)
> Scharwschildt's metric is an extreme idealisation.
> There is no black hole in the centre of the Earth,
> and there isn't one in the solar system either.
That makes no sense (even charitably assuming you mean Schwarzschild). Birkhoff's
theorem assures that any spherically symmetrical solution (vacuum) is a part of
the Schwarzschild solution, regardless of whether or not there is a black hole
at the center. So, the applicability relies only on being sufficiently close to
the idealized conditions, i.e., close to spherically symmetrical, rotating only
slowly, negligible overall electric charge, and so on. All these conditions apply
for purposes of computing the gravitational time dilation is many common
circumstances.

(2)
> > > The Scharwschild solution boils down to the Newtonian approximation,
> >
> > Not at all. The Schwarzschild solution does not "boil down" to
> > the Newtonian approximation, it is the (essentially unique) exact
> > spherically symmetrical solution of the vacuum field equations.
>
> It does, far away. It is just that you haven't seen it.

Far from the gravitating body, the Schwarzschild solution asymptotically
approaches flattness, but it's Lorentzian flattness, not Newtonian, and this
is not what you said in your statement above. You said the Schwarzschild
solution "boils down to the Newtonian approximation", which is simply false.
Are you just trying to say that in the weak slow limit, general relativity
is approximated by Newtonian gravity? Duh.

(3)
> [The Schwarzschild solution] is fine for the two body problem.
No, there is no closed form solution of the two-body problem in general
relativity (unlike Newtonian physics). The Schwarzschild solution is a
solution of the ONE-body problem, i.e., it just describes the geodesics
in a spherically symmetrical condition, whereas a true two-body problem
is not spherically symmetrical. We can use the Schwarzschild solution
for orbits only by treating the orbiting entity as a "test particle" that
has negligible effect on the field.

(4)
> and nothing beyond [the Newtonian approximation] is measurable.
Non-Newtonian gravitational time dilation has been accurately measured
countless times, in a huge variety of ways, including with macroscopic
clocks.

(5)
> Is the time defined purely by inertia... the same time
> as the time defined by clocks. The answer is still pending...

What you described is only "pending" to the extent that local Lorentz
invariance is "pending".... Which is to say, no, it is not "still pending".
You're suggesting that the laws of physics do not all take the same form
in terms of any local system of inertial coordinates, since you suggest
that the characteristic rate of temporal progression between them is not
always locally the same. That would be a direct contradiction of local
Lorentz invariance, and would imply a preferred frame for local physics, etc.

(6)
> [Special relativity] is not founded empirically at all.
You're deeply confused and misinformed. Special relativity is firmly founded
on an empirical basis. Galileo's principle of relativity is abundantly supported
by all our experience, and the principle of the inertia of energy is likewise
unequivocally supported by every observation and experimental test. Local
Lorentz invariance is among the most thoroughly and precisely validated
empirical facts in all of science.

> ROTFL. YOU are the one who is deeply confused.

That is not a substantive rebuttal to any of the thorough debunkings of your
six claims presented above. Case closed.

Re: Aioe.org

<1987555.oMNUckLgyt@PointedEars.de>

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From: PointedE...@web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Aioe.org
Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 02:20:49 +0200
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 by: Thomas 'Pointed - Mon, 9 May 2022 00:20 UTC

Clutterfreak wrote:

> Gotcha!.. Another nutcase.

It’s the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.

PointedEars
--
Q: What did the nuclear physicist post on the laboratory door
when he went camping?
A: 'Gone fission'.
(from: WolframAlpha)

Re: Aioe.org

<feba2c49-b586-4486-b41d-5da969b55158n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Aioe.org
From: ross.fin...@gmail.com (Ross A. Finlayson)
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 by: Ross A. Finlayson - Mon, 9 May 2022 01:55 UTC

On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 5:20:52 PM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Clutterfreak wrote:
>
> > Gotcha!.. Another nutcase.
>
> It’s the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.
>
>
> PointedEars
> --
> Q: What did the nuclear physicist post on the laboratory door
> when he went camping?
> A: 'Gone fission'.
> (from: WolframAlpha)

Let's get above this.

The atomic clock and in lattice, or atomic clock lattice,
is a tremendous opportunity in experiment.

Then, at some point, "Relativity and QM _do_ agree".

Perhaps frame it as the current crisis in physics,
like the "ultraviolet catastrophe", that, "the current
crisis in physics is always like the ultraviolet
catastrophe, solutions modeling it away are general
for usual continuous manifolds with space-time and
the light-like".

Then for AIOE it's with much respect, it's a volunteer
thing and very much appreciated.

Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecility

<750e44c5-a9ed-4ac1-9fb4-bd5e322267can@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecility
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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 by: Maciej Wozniak - Mon, 9 May 2022 04:38 UTC

On Sunday, 8 May 2022 at 22:11:41 UTC+2, Stan Fultoni wrote:

> Non-Newtonian gravitational time dilation has been accurately measured
> countless times, in a huge variety of ways, including with macroscopic
> clocks.

In the meantime in the real world, however, forbidden
by your insane religion GPS and TAI keep measuring t'=t,
just like all serious clocks always did.

Re: Aioe.org

<1prkxwp.ejq5an1nijim2N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Aioe.org
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 13:10:09 +0200
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Mon, 9 May 2022 11:10 UTC

Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

> On 2022-05-06 19:18:27 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:
>
> > <"Mike Moroney <moroney"@world.std.spaamtrap> wrote:
> >
> >> I've had an Eternal September acct unused for years. I *could* have come
> >> right back almost immediately with it, but...
> >> 1) I coincidentally got rather sick and playing with Usenet cranks on
> >> s.p.r. was suddenly quite low on my priorities, and you wouldn't have
> >> seen much of me anyway.
> >> 2) I started reading (not responding, of course) s.p.r anyway and almost
> >> started thinking..."Do these cranks deserve me? Not really..." So I
> >> decided to take a break from posting here, although I do reply in other
> >> groups. I may return, or maybe not.
> >
> > Yes, idem. I may be gone again in a while.
>
> Please don't go! Amusing though it may be to read the torrent of
> nonsense that the various crackpots spew out, it's nice to have the
> voice of reason as well, especially from someone who knows a lot of
> physics.

Thanks for the kind words. But you are to kind perhaps.
The point is not knowing a lot, it is understanding it,
if only a little.
But don't worry, I'll keep at least one jaundiced eye open,
at least some of the time.
(depending on who is posting of course)

> > The problem with sc.p.rel is that quarrel picking
> > has become a second nature even with those who should know better,

And yes, more of it in the meantime,

Jan

--
"A little learning is a dangerous thing" (Pope)

Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecility

<1protv7.1rktv1eynugetN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>

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Subject: Re: Utter cretin Richard Hertz blames GR for his own imbecility
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 13:10:10 +0200
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Mon, 9 May 2022 11:10 UTC

Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 12:22:58 PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> (1)
> > Scharwschildt's metric is an extreme idealisation.
> > There is no black hole in the centre of the Earth,
> > and there isn't one in the solar system either.
>
> That makes no sense (even charitably assuming you mean Schwarzschild).
> Birkhoff's theorem assures that any spherically symmetrical solution
> (vacuum) is a part of the Schwarzschild solution, regardless of whether or
> not there is a black hole at the center. So, the applicability relies only
> on being sufficiently close to the idealized conditions, i.e., close to
> spherically symmetrical, rotating only slowly, negligible overall electric
> charge, and so on. All these conditions apply for purposes of computing
> the gravitational time dilation is many common circumstances.
>
> (2)
> > > > The Scharwschild solution boils down to the Newtonian approximation,
> > >
> > > Not at all. The Schwarzschild solution does not "boil down" to
> > > the Newtonian approximation, it is the (essentially unique) exact
> > > spherically symmetrical solution of the vacuum field equations.
> >
> > It does, far away. It is just that you haven't seen it.
>
> Far from the gravitating body, the Schwarzschild solution asymptotically
> approaches flattness, but it's Lorentzian flattness, not Newtonian, and
> this is not what you said in your statement above. You said the
> Schwarzschild solution "boils down to the Newtonian approximation", which
> is simply false. Are you just trying to say that in the weak slow limit,
> general relativity is approximated by Newtonian gravity? Duh.
>
> (3)
> > [The Schwarzschild solution] is fine for the two body problem.
>
> No, there is no closed form solution of the two-body problem in general
> relativity (unlike Newtonian physics). The Schwarzschild solution is a
> solution of the ONE-body problem, i.e., it just describes the geodesics in
> a spherically symmetrical condition, whereas a true two-body problem is
> not spherically symmetrical. We can use the Schwarzschild solution for
> orbits only by treating the orbiting entity as a "test particle" that has
> negligible effect on the field.
>
> (4)
> > and nothing beyond [the Newtonian approximation] is measurable.
>
> Non-Newtonian gravitational time dilation has been accurately measured
> countless times, in a huge variety of ways, including with macroscopic
> clocks.
>
> (5)
> > Is the time defined purely by inertia... the same time
> > as the time defined by clocks. The answer is still pending...
>
> What you described is only "pending" to the extent that local Lorentz
> invariance is "pending".... Which is to say, no, it is not "still
> pending". You're suggesting that the laws of physics do not all take the
> same form in terms of any local system of inertial coordinates, since you
> suggest that the characteristic rate of temporal progression between them
> is not always locally the same. That would be a direct contradiction of
> local Lorentz invariance, and would imply a preferred frame for local
> physics, etc.
>
> (6)
> > [Special relativity] is not founded empirically at all.
>
> You're deeply confused and misinformed. Special relativity is firmly
> founded on an empirical basis. Galileo's principle of relativity is
> abundantly supported by all our experience, and the principle of the
> inertia of energy is likewise unequivocally supported by every observation
> and experimental test. Local Lorentz invariance is among the most
> thoroughly and precisely validated empirical facts in all of science.
>
> > ROTFL. YOU are the one who is deeply confused.
>
> That is not a substantive rebuttal to any of the thorough debunkings of
> your six claims presented above. Case closed.

Fine with me. I had already given up on you,

Jan

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server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor