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tech / sci.physics.relativity / Re: Real time, real simultaneity

SubjectAuthor
* Real time, real simultaneityMaciej Wozniak
`* Re: Real time, real simultaneityRichard Hachel
 `* Re: Real time, real simultaneityMaciej Wozniak
  `* Re: Real time, real simultaneityRichard Hachel
   `- Re: Real time, real simultaneityMaciej Wozniak

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Real time, real simultaneity

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Subject: Real time, real simultaneity
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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 by: Maciej Wozniak - Wed, 11 May 2022 08:30 UTC

Not only an absolute time exists, there are many of them:
UTC, GPS, TAI, zone times
Two events are simultaneous when its TAI/GPS/UTC time
coordinate is equal. That's how things are in the world
we inhabit. Your bunch of idiots can scream "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!"
as much as you want, nothing is going to change.

Re: Real time, real simultaneity

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From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Wed, 11 May 2022 11:27 UTC

Le 11/05/2022 à 10:30, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
> Not only an absolute time exists, there are many of them:
> UTC, GPS, TAI, zone times
> Two events are simultaneous when its TAI/GPS/UTC time
> coordinate is equal. That's how things are in the world
> we inhabit. Your bunch of idiots can scream "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!"
> as much as you want, nothing is going to change.

Lorsqu'on utilisait l'heure solaire, on s'est progressivement rendu
compte, par exemple que l'heure de Jérusalem n'était pas celle de Rome.

Tout le monde voit bien aujourd'hui, lors d'une diffusion en direct
d'Argentine, qu'il fait encore jour,
alors que chez nous, c'est la nuit depuis longtemps.

On appelle cela l'anisochronie solaire.

La simultanéité du midi n'est pas la même. Si je tape sur un gong quand
le soleil est juste au sud,
le gong argentin ne sera pas simultané du gong parisien.

Il en va (un peu car c'est plus compliqué) de même pour l'anisochronie
spatiale.

Deux objet séparés (cette tasse sur la table, ce crayon sur l'armoire)
ne pourront jamais être considéré
en simultanéité absolue. Chacun voit l'autre retarder sur lui de
ΔT=AB/c.

C'est le phénomène d'anisochronie universelle.

Cela veut dire que la simultanéité absolue, ça n'existe pas.

Si les deux objet sont en mouvement rapide, un autre phénomène
intervient alors la relativité de la chronotropie. Non seulement il n'y a
plus de simultanéité directe comme dans le cas précédent, mais en
plus, chacun a l'impression que l'autre montre bat moins vite.

Les équations vous les connaissez.

Je ne les remets pas.

R.H.

Re: Real time, real simultaneity

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Subject: Re: Real time, real simultaneity
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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 by: Maciej Wozniak - Wed, 11 May 2022 11:38 UTC

On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 13:27:43 UTC+2, Richard Hachel wrote:
> Le 11/05/2022 à 10:30, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
> > Not only an absolute time exists, there are many of them:
> > UTC, GPS, TAI, zone times
> > Two events are simultaneous when its TAI/GPS/UTC time
> > coordinate is equal. That's how things are in the world
> > we inhabit. Your bunch of idiots can scream "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!"
> > as much as you want, nothing is going to change.
> Lorsqu'on utilisait l'heure solaire, on s'est progressivement rendu
> compte, par exemple que l'heure de Jérusalem n'était pas celle de Rome.

None of the ones I've mentioned is "solar time",
however.

Re: Real time, real simultaneity

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From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Wed, 11 May 2022 11:47 UTC

Le 11/05/2022 à 13:38, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
> None of the ones I've mentioned is "solar time",
> however.

This is just an example, a figurative.

This is just to show that if the Greeks and Babylonians may have believed
in the simultaneity of solar time, today the false belief has moved.

99.9999999% of humanity (and even Hawkins) believe that the notion of
simultaneity is absolute in a given reference frame, and that two events
between two entities separated by three meters in a house, can be really
and absolutely simultaneous.
It's wrong. At the best of perfect synchronization, each of the events
will see the other delayed by 10 nanoseconds.

This is spatial anisochrony.

To which is added a dyschronotropy if the objects are in significant
relative motion not only do the watches no longer live simultaneously but
their clocks no longer beat and reciprocally at the same speed.

R.H.

Re: Real time, real simultaneity

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Subject: Re: Real time, real simultaneity
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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 by: Maciej Wozniak - Wed, 11 May 2022 12:34 UTC

On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 13:47:38 UTC+2, Richard Hachel wrote:
> Le 11/05/2022 à 13:38, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
> > None of the ones I've mentioned is "solar time",
> > however.
> This is just an example, a figurative.
>
> This is just to show that if the Greeks and Babylonians may have believed
> in the simultaneity of solar time, today the false belief has moved.

Some believed, others didn't. Doesn't matter.
Another example - for more than 100 years
relativistic fanatics have been believing those
nonsenses about the synchronization announced
by their idiot guru; today, with the help of some
precise GPS equipment, their false beliefs can be
thrown into a trash can.

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