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tech / sci.physics.relativity / Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

SubjectAuthor
* How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
+* Cretin Pat Dolan fails basic algebraDono.
|+* Re: Cretin Pat Dolan fails basic algebrapatdolan
||`* Re: Cretin Pat Dolan fails basic algebraDono.
|| `* Re: Cretin Pat Dolan fails basic algebrapatdolan
||  `- Re: Cretin Pat Dolan fails basic algebraDono.
|`* Re: Cretin Pat Dolan fails basic algebraRichard Hertz
| `- Re: Cretin Pat Dolan fails basic algebra and fellow crank Dick HertzDono.
+- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
+* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
|`* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
| `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
|  `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   `- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
+* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|+- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|`* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
| `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|  `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   +* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
|   |+* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||+* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
|   |||`* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||| +* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
|   ||| |`- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneMaciej Wozniak
|   ||| `* Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraDono.
|   |||  `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||   `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||    +* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |`* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||    | `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |  `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||    |   +* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraDono.
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraDono.
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||    |   |+* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |   ||+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraPython
|   |||    |   ||`- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraMaciej Wozniak
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraDono.
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |   |`- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraDono.
|   |||    |   `- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     +* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||     |`* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     | +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     | `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||     |  `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||     |   `- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     +* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||     |`* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     | `- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||     `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraPaul B. Andersen
|   |||      `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraRichard Hachel
|   |||       `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraPaul B. Andersen
|   |||        `- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraRichard Hachel
|   ||`* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   || `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||  +* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
|   ||  |`- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||  `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   ||   `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||    `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   ||     `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||      `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   ||       `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||        `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   ||         `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||          +* Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingrotchm
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingPaul Alsing
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingrotchm
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |`- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          +- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   ||          +- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||          +- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   ||          +- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||          +- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   ||          +* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneTom Roberts
|   ||          +- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingStan Fultoni
|   ||          +- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingStan Fultoni
|   ||          +- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingStan Fultoni
|   ||          +- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingStan Fultoni
|   ||          +- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingStan Fultoni
|   ||          `- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingStan Fultoni
|   |`- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   `- Cretin Pat Dolan keeps trollingDono.
`* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan

Pages:123456
Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One

<493c4287-352d-4a5c-b0f7-afe98da590fen@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
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 by: Stan Fultoni - Wed, 11 May 2022 02:04 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 6:28:57 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> From these wellformed strings of arithmetic:
> x' = g( v )[ x - vt ]
> t' = g( v )[ t - vx/c^2 ]
> x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ]
> t = g( v' )[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]

That set of strings is well-formed only if v'=v. If v' does not equal v, the first two strings contradict the second two.

If you still don't understand this, by all means ask for further clarification.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

<a2a09660-764c-4753-82e4-8e26b8a3d93cn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Wed, 11 May 2022 02:14 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 6:56:13 PM UTC-7, rotchm wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 9:27:07 PM UTC-4, patdolan wrote:
>
> > Where is v = v' ???????????????
> <sigh>. I repeat: "By comparison/inspection, your v' equals v.".
> You can't do that part on your own? Do you really need me to show you how to do that last step?
> > You spend all afternoon and early evening trying to prove v = v'.
> Nope. Another lie on your part. I just got home (from a day on the lake, kayaking...).
> Took me a few mins to type it in. I know you're jealous, but you need to admit that you are limited and that you are a loser. You will never get better if you just insult and ask for answers.

You just algebraically manipulated the LTs to solve for x and t. That's a triviality. We are typing past each other again. I'm done with you for now rotchm. Let's see what St[ownes]an comes up with.

Kayaking....huh...that's for women. A real man SUPs. I've SUPed across Puget's Sound in 20 knots. There's a guy up in the San Juans whose SUPed all the way to Ketchikan.

Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One

<bb0cf7a9-6933-438d-841e-7fd1381acfd8n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Wed, 11 May 2022 02:15 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 7:04:20 PM UTC-7, Stan Fultoni wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 6:28:57 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > From these wellformed strings of arithmetic:
> > x' = g( v )[ x - vt ]
> > t' = g( v )[ t - vx/c^2 ]
> > x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ]
> > t = g( v' )[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]
> That set of strings is well-formed only if v'=v. If v' does not equal v, the first two strings contradict the second two.
>
> If you still don't understand this, by all means ask for further clarification.
I'm interested St[ownes]an. Show the contradiction.

Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trolling

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Subject: Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trolling
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Wed, 11 May 2022 02:17 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 6:58:25 PM UTC-7, Dono. wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 6:43:47 PM UTC-7, Dono. wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 6:28:57 PM UTC-7, crank pat dolan trolled:
> > > From these wellformed strings of arithmetic:
> > > x' = g( v )[ x - vt ]
> > > t' = g( v )[ t - vx/c^2 ]
> > > x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ]
> > > t = g( v' )[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]
> > > derive this wellformed string of arithmetic:
> > >
> > > v = v'
> > >
> > > Go.
> > I did exactly that a few weeks ago, piece of shit. You couldn't follow the simple algebra.
> After elementary algebra, the 4 equations boil down to:
>
> (v-v')*(t'^2-x'^2/c^2)=0
>
> with the only reasonable conclusion v'=v
>
> Eat shit, Pattycakes
Absolutely ridiculous. Show the algebra.

Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trolling

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Subject: Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trolling
From: eggy2001...@gmail.com (Dono.)
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 by: Dono. - Wed, 11 May 2022 02:21 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 7:17:12 PM UTC-7, crank pat dolan ate more shit:
> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 6:58:25 PM UTC-7, Dono. wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 6:43:47 PM UTC-7, Dono. wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 6:28:57 PM UTC-7, crank pat dolan trolled:
> > > > From these wellformed strings of arithmetic:
> > > > x' = g( v )[ x - vt ]
> > > > t' = g( v )[ t - vx/c^2 ]
> > > > x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ]
> > > > t = g( v' )[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]
> > > > derive this wellformed string of arithmetic:
> > > >
> > > > v = v'
> > > >
> > > > Go.
> > > I did exactly that a few weeks ago, piece of shit. You couldn't follow the simple algebra.
> > After elementary algebra, the 4 equations boil down to:
> >
> > (v-v')*(t'^2-x'^2/c^2)=0
> >
> > with the only reasonable conclusion v'=v
> >
> > Eat shit, Pattycakes
> Absolutely ridiculous. Show the algebra.

I am not indulging your laziness combined with your stupidity. Eat shit, Pattucakes.

Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One

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Subject: Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
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 by: Stan Fultoni - Wed, 11 May 2022 02:40 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 7:15:29 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > > From these wellformed strings of arithmetic:
> > > x' = g( v )[ x - vt ]
> > > t' = g( v )[ t - vx/c^2 ]
> > > x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ]
> > > t = g( v' )[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]
> > That set of strings is well-formed only if v'=v. If v' does not equal v, the first two strings contradict the second two.
>
> Show the contradiction.

The first two equations, in matrix form, are X' = LX, and the second two are X = L'X', so
we have X = L'(LX) = (L'L)X, so L'L=I, so L' = L^-1. Hence v' = v.

If you still need more help understanding this, just ask.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: rot...@gmail.com (rotchm)
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 by: rotchm - Wed, 11 May 2022 02:55 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:14:17 PM UTC-4, patdolan wrote:

> > <sigh>. I repeat: "By comparison/inspection, your v' equals v.".
> > You can't do that part on your own?

No answer?

> > Do you really need me to show you how to do that last step?

No answer?
So you don't want me to show you how it's done?
Make up your mind!

If you want us to answer your questions, you got to answer some of ours too.

> You just algebraically manipulated the LTs to solve for x and t.

Well DuH!
You are really retarded aren't you!?

Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One

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Subject: Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One
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 by: patdolan - Wed, 11 May 2022 03:25 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 7:41:01 PM UTC-7, Stan Fultoni wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 7:15:29 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > > > From these wellformed strings of arithmetic:
> > > > x' = g( v )[ x - vt ]
> > > > t' = g( v )[ t - vx/c^2 ]
> > > > x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ]
> > > > t = g( v' )[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]
> > > That set of strings is well-formed only if v'=v. If v' does not equal v, the first two strings contradict the second two.
> >
> > Show the contradiction.
>
> The first two equations, in matrix form, are X' = LX, and the second two are X = L'X', so
> we have X = L'(LX) = (L'L)X, so L'L=I, so L' = L^-1. Hence v' = v.
>
> If you still need more help understanding this, just ask.

S[Townes]an, you pathetic chump. You keep reverting to that matrix slop. Yet, you have so little knowledge of logical principles that you can maintain with at straight face that the reason the deduction can't be performed is because the premise strings contradict! Ex falso quodlibet, my boy. The principle of explosion. v = v' should drop right out for you. But it doesn't. You and the kayaking rotchm can't make the deduction and neither of you knows why. The logical pathology we are dealing with is not one of contradiction amongst the axioms.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Wed, 11 May 2022 03:28 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 7:55:56 PM UTC-7, rotchm wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:14:17 PM UTC-4, patdolan wrote:
>
> > > <sigh>. I repeat: "By comparison/inspection, your v' equals v.".
> > > You can't do that part on your own?
> No answer?
> > > Do you really need me to show you how to do that last step?
> No answer?

> So you don't want me to show you how it's done?
> Make up your mind!
>

Yes, yes rotchm. By all means go ahead. I'm out the door for a few hours. There's a bar in Ballard I've been barred from for over a year because I didn't vax. Tonight marks my long awaited return. I'll look at your stuff in the morning.
> If you want us to answer your questions, you got to answer some of ours too.
> > You just algebraically manipulated the LTs to solve for x and t.
> Well DuH!
> You are really retarded aren't you!?

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Wed, 11 May 2022 03:30 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 7:55:56 PM UTC-7, rotchm wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:14:17 PM UTC-4, patdolan wrote:
>
> > > <sigh>. I repeat: "By comparison/inspection, your v' equals v.".
> > > You can't do that part on your own?
> No answer?
> > > Do you really need me to show you how to do that last step?
> No answer?
> So you don't want me to show you how it's done?
> Make up your mind!
>
> If you want us to answer your questions, you got to answer some of ours too.
> > You just algebraically manipulated the LTs to solve for x and t.
> Well DuH!
> You are really retarded aren't you!?

And please use a 15 lbs heavier curling dumbbell.

Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One

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Subject: Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
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 by: Stan Fultoni - Wed, 11 May 2022 03:57 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:25:23 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > > > > From these wellformed strings of arithmetic:
> > > > > x' = g( v )[ x - vt ]
> > > > > t' = g( v )[ t - vx/c^2 ]
> > > > > x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ]
> > > > > t = g( v' )[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]
> > > > That set of strings is well-formed only if v'=v. If v' does not equal v, the first two strings contradict the second two.
> > >
> > > Show the contradiction.
> >
> > The first two equations, in matrix form, are X' = LX, and the second two are X = L'X', so
> > we have X = L'(LX) = (L'L)X, so L'L=I, so L' = L^-1. Hence v' = v.
>
> You keep reverting to that matrix slop.

It isn't necessary to express things in matrix notation... if you prefer to just say "the
first two equations" and type them out each time, you are certainly free to do so. And
the second pair of equations is either redundant to the first pair (if v'=v) or logically
contradictory with the first pair (if v' is not equal to v). That's why the set of four
equations is "well formed" if and only if v'=v.

Now do you understand?

Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One

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 by: Tom Roberts - Wed, 11 May 2022 04:40 UTC

On 5/10/22 8:28 PM, patdolan wrote:
> From these wellformed strings of arithmetic:
> x' = g( v )[ x - vt ]
> t' = g( v )[ t - vx/c^2 ]
> x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ]
> t = g( v' )[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]
>
> derive this wellformed string of arithmetic:
> v = v'

[FYI: this is algebra, not arithmetic. This algebra is
independent of the geometric interpretation of these
as coordinate transforms between inertial coordinates
on a flat (1,1)-D manifold.]

Those are not well-formed until you add:
g(V) = 1/sqrt(1-V^2/c^2)

Solve the first two for x and t, which is just straightforward algebra.
One gets:
x = g( v )[ x' + vt' ]
t = g( v )[ t' + vx'/c^2 ]

[Hint: this is the inverse transform Stan Fultoni was
talking about.]

Combine with either of the last two to get
v = v'

Tom Roberts

Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One

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Subject: Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
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 by: Stan Fultoni - Wed, 11 May 2022 06:15 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 9:40:54 PM UTC-7, tjrob137 wrote:
> Solve the first two for x and t, which is just straightforward algebra.
> One gets:
> x = g( v )[ x' + vt' ]
> t = g( v )[ t' + vx'/c^2 ]
> Combine with either of the last two to get v = v'

It's necessary to combine with _both_, because in general for x,t timelike-
separated from the origin there is obviously another "v" that matches the
time component and that gives the negative of the space component.
Likewise for x,t spacelike-separated from the origin there is another "v"
that matches the space component but it gives the negative of the time
component. There's no alternate "v" that matches both the space
and the time components. This was explained in detail previously.

Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One

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Subject: Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Wed, 11 May 2022 07:28 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 9:40:54 PM UTC-7, tjrob137 wrote:
> On 5/10/22 8:28 PM, patdolan wrote:
> > From these wellformed strings of arithmetic:
> > x' = g( v )[ x - vt ]
> > t' = g( v )[ t - vx/c^2 ]
> > x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ]
> > t = g( v' )[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]
> >
> > derive this wellformed string of arithmetic:
> > v = v'
> [FYI: this is algebra, not arithmetic. This algebra is
> independent of the geometric interpretation of these
> as coordinate transforms between inertial coordinates
> on a flat (1,1)-D manifold.]
>
> Those are not well-formed until you add:
> g(V) = 1/sqrt(1-V^2/c^2)
>
> Solve the first two for x and t, which is just straightforward algebra.
> One gets:
> x = g( v )[ x' + vt' ]
> t = g( v )[ t' + vx'/c^2 ]
>
> [Hint: this is the inverse transform Stan Fultoni was
> talking about.]
>
> Combine with either of the last two to get
> v = v'
Huh Tom Roberts?? Okay, do it. Combine them and show this forum exactly how v = v'.
[ Hint: you won't of course, you big talker ]
>
>
> Tom Roberts

Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One

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Subject: Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part One
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Wed, 11 May 2022 07:38 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 11:15:40 PM UTC-7, Stan Fultoni wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 9:40:54 PM UTC-7, tjrob137 wrote:
> > Solve the first two for x and t, which is just straightforward algebra.
> > One gets:
> > x = g( v )[ x' + vt' ]
> > t = g( v )[ t' + vx'/c^2 ]
> > Combine with either of the last two to get v = v'
> It's necessary to combine with _both_, because in general for x,t timelike-
> separated from the origin there is obviously another "v" that matches the
> time component and that gives the negative of the space component.
> Likewise for x,t spacelike-separated from the origin there is another "v"
> that matches the space component but it gives the negative of the time
> component. There's no alternate "v" that matches both the space
> and the time components. This was explained in detail previously.

Stan/Townes, you've had your chance. When you claimed that the axioms where contradictory and yet you still could not extract the sought-for theorem ( v = v' ) you exposed your self as a phoolish, phraudulent, phony who knows not the first thing about logical derivation. Your utter ignorance of the propositional calculus is why you are so susceptible to specious arguments like Einstein's. Is there anything about my condemnation of your logical abilities that is unclear to you? If so, please ask.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: rot...@gmail.com (rotchm)
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 by: rotchm - Wed, 11 May 2022 13:39 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 11:28:15 PM UTC-4, patdolan wrote:

We agreed that I arrived at

x = (x' +vt')g . Or by ur notation

x = g(v)[x' + vt']. (1)

You want us to show that your
x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ] (2) implies v = v'.

The coeff of x' in (1) & (2) are g(v) & g(v') resp. Thus... 1-v²/c² = 1-v'²/c², thus v = +-v'.
The coeff of t' in (1) & (2) are g(v)vt' & g(v')v't' resp. Since we shown above g(v)=g(v') thus v=v'.

Any steps in there confuses you?

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Wed, 11 May 2022 16:13 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 6:39:32 AM UTC-7, rotchm wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 11:28:15 PM UTC-4, patdolan wrote:
>
> We agreed that I arrived at
>
> x = (x' +vt')g . Or by ur notation
>
> x = g(v)[x' + vt']. (1)
>
> You want us to show that your
> x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ] (2) implies v = v'.
>
> The coeff of x' in (1) & (2) are g(v) & g(v') resp. Thus... 1-v²/c² = 1-v'²/c², thus v = +-v'.
> The coeff of t' in (1) & (2) are g(v)vt' & g(v')v't' resp. Since we shown above g(v)=g(v') thus v=v'.
>
> Any steps in there confuses you?

Where have you shown that g(v) = g(v') ?? That is just as big a issue as the original challenge.

Let's start all over rotchm with the initial demonstration for Galilean relativity, which is our model of a well formed transformation:

Because t = t' in the Galilean transforms we shall only use t in the following derivation.

x' = x - vt (1)
x = x' + v't (2)

Prove v = v'

Add eqns 1 & 2 together to get

x' + x = x' + x + vt - v't

v't = vt

v' = v

Easy Peasy.

But what does this proof signify? It signifies the fact that with Galilean relativity O and O' both agree on the value of the velocity they share between each other and they agree on the value of the coordinate velocity that each computes for the other. And that all are equivalent values. Why is this important? Because the statement v = v' IS NOT DERIVABLE in special relativity. The statement v = v' must be assumed in SR as special (and hidden) postulate--it can't be proved. If you are observer O and you try to compute v' for O' you get g(v)^2. Bottom line: v = v' is not warranted in SR because it is not proved to be true as is the case in Galilean relativity. Don't believe me? Then try to prove v = v' from these wellformed strings:

x' = g( v )[ x - vt ]
t' = g( v )[ t - vx/c^2 ]
x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ]
t = g( v' )[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]

Just like I did in the case of Galilean Relativity.

Or try and prove that g(v) = g(v').

Your choice. Go.

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Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 10:00:57 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Wed, 11 May 2022 17:00 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 9:13:21 AM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 6:39:32 AM UTC-7, rotchm wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 11:28:15 PM UTC-4, patdolan wrote:
> >
> > We agreed that I arrived at
> >
> > x = (x' +vt')g . Or by ur notation
> >
> > x = g(v)[x' + vt']. (1)
> >
> > You want us to show that your
> > x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ] (2) implies v = v'.
> >
> > The coeff of x' in (1) & (2) are g(v) & g(v') resp. Thus... 1-v²/c² = 1-v'²/c², thus v = +-v'.
> > The coeff of t' in (1) & (2) are g(v)vt' & g(v')v't' resp. Since we shown above g(v)=g(v') thus v=v'.
> >
> > Any steps in there confuses you?
> Where have you shown that g(v) = g(v') ?? That is just as big a issue as the original challenge.
>
> Let's start all over rotchm with the initial demonstration for Galilean relativity, which is our model of a well formed transformation:
>
> Because t = t' in the Galilean transforms we shall only use t in the following derivation.
>
> x' = x - vt (1)
> x = x' + v't (2)
>
> Prove v = v'
>
> Add eqns 1 & 2 together to get
>
> x' + x = x' + x + vt - v't
>
> v't = vt
>
> v' = v
>
> Easy Peasy.
>
> But what does this proof signify? It signifies the fact that with Galilean relativity O and O' both agree on the value of the velocity they share between each other and they agree on the value of the coordinate velocity that each computes for the other. And that all are equivalent values. Why is this important? Because the statement v = v' IS NOT DERIVABLE in special relativity. The statement v = v' must be assumed in SR as special (and hidden) postulate--it can't be proved. If you are observer O and you try to compute v' for O' you get g(v)^2.
correction: you get v' = vg(v)^2
Bottom line: v = v' is not warranted in SR because it is not proved to be true as is the case in Galilean relativity. Don't believe me? Then try to prove v = v' from these wellformed strings:
> x' = g( v )[ x - vt ]
> t' = g( v )[ t - vx/c^2 ]
> x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ]
> t = g( v' )[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]
> Just like I did in the case of Galilean Relativity.
>
> Or try and prove that g(v) = g(v').
>
> Your choice. Go.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: eggy2001...@gmail.com (Dono.)
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 by: Dono. - Wed, 11 May 2022 17:10 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 10:00:59 AM UTC-7, stubborn cretin pat dolan wrote:
> If you are observer O and you try to compute v' for O' you get g(v)^2.
> correction: you get v' = vg(v)^2

Only stubborn cretins like Pat Dolan get this imbecility.
You have been shown multiple valid proofs that v'=v. I showed you two, lying piece of shit.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Wed, 11 May 2022 17:18 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 10:10:39 AM UTC-7, Dono. wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 10:00:59 AM UTC-7, stubborn cretin pat dolan wrote:
> > If you are observer O and you try to compute v' for O' you get g(v)^2.
> > correction: you get v' = vg(v)^2
> Only stubborn cretins like Pat Dolan get this imbecility.
> You have been shown multiple valid proofs that v'=v. I showed you two, lying piece of shit.

No Dono. You only showed the last line of a proof you claim you wrote, but refuse to link to. I am 100 times the mathematician you are and I couldn't derive your last line. Scientific fraud.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: eggy2001...@gmail.com (Dono.)
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 by: Dono. - Wed, 11 May 2022 18:09 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 10:18:07 AM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> I am 100 times the mathematician you are and I couldn't derive your last line.

Delusions, delusions

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
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 by: Stan Fultoni - Wed, 11 May 2022 18:43 UTC

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:25:23 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > > From these ... strings of arithmetic:
> > > x' = g( v )[ x - vt ]
> > > t' = g( v )[ t - vx/c^2 ]
> > > x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ]
> > > t = g( v' )[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]
> > > derive v = v'

That trivial derivation has been presented to you many times, in amny different forms.
Again, it's grade school algebra to show that the first two equations imply

x = g( v )[ x' + vt' ]
t = g( v )[ t' + vx'/c^2 ]

so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if
g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v'), from which it trivially follows that v'=v.

What part of this do you think is wrong or unclear?

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Wed, 11 May 2022 19:02 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 11:43:23 AM UTC-7, Stan Fultoni wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:25:23 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > > > From these ... strings of arithmetic:
> > > > x' = g( v )[ x - vt ]
> > > > t' = g( v )[ t - vx/c^2 ]
> > > > x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ]
> > > > t = g( v' )[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]
> > > > derive v = v'
>
> That trivial derivation has been presented to you many times, in amny different forms.
> Again, it's grade school algebra to show that the first two equations imply
>
> x = g( v )[ x' + vt' ]
> t = g( v )[ t' + vx'/c^2 ]
>
> so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if
> g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v'), from which it trivially follows that v'=v.
>
> What part of this do you think is wrong or unclear?

Dear Stan/Townes,

G. K. Chesterton once wrote that the madman has not lost his reason. The madman has lost everything BUT his reason.

You point out that the LTs are true IFF g(v)=g(v') and this is exactly the point I am making in addition to this very important point: g(v) = g(v') is a false proposition. So far I have left up to this forum to prove it true, knowingly all the while that it is demonstrably false. It is now time to move on to part two wherein I will demonstrate that the LTs are demonstrable inconsistent and therefore false. The proposition to be proved is that, Given the LTs, no two observers can ever agree on the relative velocity shared between themselves. This has many bad consequences for SR, as the reader shall soon see.

Do you understand the forgoing Stan/Townes? It is important that you do before we proceed. Stop mindlessly manipulating algebraic symbols. Look beyond the signifier to what is signified. Look beyond the algebra to what the algebra means.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
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 by: Stan Fultoni - Wed, 11 May 2022 19:24 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:02:36 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 11:43:23 AM UTC-7, Stan Fultoni wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:25:23 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > > > > From these ... strings of arithmetic:
> > > > > x' = g( v )[ x - vt ]
> > > > > t' = g( v )[ t - vx/c^2 ]
> > > > > x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ]
> > > > > t = g( v' )[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]
> > > > > derive v = v'
> >
> > That trivial derivation has been presented to you many times, in amny different forms.
> > Again, it's grade school algebra to show that the first two equations imply
> >
> > x = g( v )[ x' + vt' ]
> > t = g( v )[ t' + vx'/c^2 ]
> >
> > so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if
> > g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v'), from which it trivially follows that v'=v.
> >
> > What part of this do you think is wrong or unclear?
>
> You point out that the LTs are true IFF g(v)=g(v')

No, I pointed out that, given your first two equations, your second two equations
are true for arbitrary x and t if and only if g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v').

> g(v) = g(v') is a false proposition.

It is false unless v'=+-v, in which case it is true, and the relation vg(v)=v'g(v')
constrains the sign, so they are true if and only if v'=v. Hence, given your
first two equations, we have proven that your second two equations are true
for arbitrary x and t if and only if v'=v.

Is there anything about this that seems wrong or unclear to you?

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: rot...@gmail.com (rotchm)
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 by: rotchm - Wed, 11 May 2022 19:26 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:13:21 PM UTC-4, patdolan wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 6:39:32 AM UTC-7, rotchm wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 11:28:15 PM UTC-4, patdolan wrote:
> >
> > We agreed that I arrived at
> >
> > x = (x' +vt')g . Or by ur notation
> >
> > x = g(v)[x' + vt']. (1)
> >
> > You want us to show that your
> > x = g( v' )[ x' + v't' ] (2) implies v = v'.
> >
> > The coeff of x' in (1) & (2) are g(v) & g(v') resp. Thus... 1-v²/c² = 1-v'²/c², thus v = +-v'.
> > The coeff of t' in (1) & (2) are g(v)vt' & g(v')v't' resp. Since we shown above g(v)=g(v') thus v=v'.
> >
> > Any steps in there confuses you?
> Where have you shown that g(v) = g(v') ??

<sigh>. I already told you: By *comparison*. Again, the coeff of x' in (1) & (2)
are g(v) & g(v') resp. Since the coefficients of the variable (x' here) must be the same, hence
g(v) must equal g(v'). I.e.: g(v) = g(v'). Anything in that step you did not understand?

Or, in (1) & (2), letting the variable t'=0, we get the two eqs x = g(v)x' & x= g(v')x'.
Thus g(v)x' = g(v')x'. Let the variable x'=1, say. Thus g(v) = g(v').

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