Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

...and scantily clad females, of course. Who cares if it's below zero outside. -- Linus Torvalds


tech / sci.physics.relativity / Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

SubjectAuthor
* [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
+- Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeMaciej Wozniak
+* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeStan Fultoni
|+* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeMaciej Wozniak
||`- Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
|`* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
| `* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeStan Fultoni
|  +- Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeMaciej Wozniak
|  `* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
|   `* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeStan Fultoni
|    `* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
|     `* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeStan Fultoni
|      `* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
|       `* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeStan Fultoni
|        `* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
|         `* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeStan Fultoni
|          `* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
|           `* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeStan Fultoni
|            +* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
|            |+* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeStan Fultoni
|            ||`* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
|            || +- Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justerotchm
|            || `* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeStan Fultoni
|            ||  `- Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
|            |`- Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justerotchm
|            `- Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
+* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justePython
|+- Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeMaciej Wozniak
|+- Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
|`* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
| +* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justePython
| |`* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
| | `* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justePython
| |  `- Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel
| `- Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeMaciej Wozniak
`* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeMikko
 +* Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeJ. J. Lodder
 |`- Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeMaciej Wozniak
 `- Re: [SR] Trouver le mot justeRichard Hachel

Pages:12
[SR] Trouver le mot juste

<F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90293&group=sci.physics.relativity#90293

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!pasdenom.info!from-devjntp
Message-ID: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp>
JNTP-Route: news2.nemoweb.net
JNTP-DataType: Article
Subject: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
JNTP-HashClient: vyyU0bJzJX-uVM0wtlHZL-pdbAA
JNTP-ThreadID: W0cJ6f7rXvgffeoP7IP3sc6mF2I
JNTP-Uri: http://news2.nemoweb.net/?DataID=F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp
User-Agent: Nemo/0.999a
JNTP-OriginServer: news2.nemoweb.net
Date: Sun, 15 May 22 17:00:04 +0000
Organization: Nemoweb
JNTP-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/101.0.4951.54 Safari/537.36
Injection-Info: news2.nemoweb.net; posting-host="314bd3f8e92196ce7e6a5ac25bb2618076139bd1"; logging-data="2022-05-15T17:00:04Z/6901213"; posting-account="4@news2.nemoweb.net"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@news2.nemoweb.net"
JNTP-ProtocolVersion: 0.21.1
JNTP-Server: PhpNemoServer/0.94.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-JNTP-JsonNewsGateway: 0.96
From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Sun, 15 May 2022 17:00 UTC

It can be important, in science, to define things well.

But it's not always easy.

I gave Hachel's transformations (it's me: the most beautiful, the biggest,
the most awesome).

A small image is there.

<http://news2.nemoweb.net/jntp?F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp/Data.Media:1>

There remains the problem of DEFINITIONS.

In these equations, which everyone has recognized, appear To and t.

How to call these two terms?
Local time?
Referential time?
Observable time?
Own time?
Descent time?
Chronotropy?
Anisochronous time?
How to clearly define To and t, so that the terms are as exact as
possible.

Quelqu'un peut avoir une idée?

<http://news2.nemoweb.net/?DataID=F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp>

R.H.

--
"Mais ne nous trompons pas.
Il n'y a pas que de la violence avec des armes : il y a des situations de
violence."
Abbé Pierre.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<bcccc5ff-8b3f-4a87-b650-40811e7359f3n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90294&group=sci.physics.relativity#90294

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:414d:b0:6a0:2035:f097 with SMTP id k13-20020a05620a414d00b006a02035f097mr9852816qko.458.1652634299381;
Sun, 15 May 2022 10:04:59 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:1d08:b0:45a:a692:3bb2 with SMTP id
e8-20020a0562141d0800b0045aa6923bb2mr12507579qvd.24.1652634299187; Sun, 15
May 2022 10:04:59 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 10:04:58 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=83.25.21.5; posting-account=I3DWzAoAAACOmZUdDcZ-C0PqAZGVsbW0
NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.25.21.5
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <bcccc5ff-8b3f-4a87-b650-40811e7359f3n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
Injection-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 17:04:59 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 1934
 by: Maciej Wozniak - Sun, 15 May 2022 17:04 UTC

On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 19:00:07 UTC+2, Richard Hachel wrote:
> It can be important, in science, to define things well.
>
> But it's not always easy.
>
> I gave Hachel's transformations (it's me: the most beautiful, the biggest,
> the most awesome).
>
> A small image is there.
>
> <http://news2.nemoweb.net/jntp?F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp/Data.Media:1>
>
> There remains the problem of DEFINITIONS.
>
> In these equations, which everyone has recognized, appear To and t.
>
> How to call these two terms?
> Local time?
> Referential time?
> Observable time?
> Own time?
> Descent time?
> Chronotropy?
> Anisochronous time?
> How to clearly define To and t, so that the terms are as exact as
> possible.

Doesn't matter. Even the nicest name will make them
neither usable nor important.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90295&group=sci.physics.relativity#90295

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:d0c:b0:45b:3c7:fd68 with SMTP id 12-20020a0562140d0c00b0045b03c7fd68mr12510641qvh.77.1652634993221;
Sun, 15 May 2022 10:16:33 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a0c:cc85:0:b0:45a:81e2:ffd7 with SMTP id
f5-20020a0ccc85000000b0045a81e2ffd7mr12107458qvl.41.1652634993002; Sun, 15
May 2022 10:16:33 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 10:16:32 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:601:1700:7df0:adc6:c9ee:a437:f3eb;
posting-account=mPYpNwoAAADYT6u25jo4wRqpXbzZAAhf
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:601:1700:7df0:adc6:c9ee:a437:f3eb
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
Injection-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 17:16:33 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 1867
 by: Stan Fultoni - Sun, 15 May 2022 17:16 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 10:00:07 AM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
> [Evasions]

According to science, the elapsed proper time along a uniform path (no acceleration) between two given events ei and ej is sqrt[(ti-tj)^2) - (xi-xj)^2)]. You previously agreed with this, but now that you've seen it leads to a contradiction with your other claims, you deny it. So, the question to you is: What do you claim is the elapsed proper time along a uniform, unaccelerated, time-like path from a specified event with coordinates xi,ti to another specified event xj,tj in terms of any given system of inertial coordinates ?

Why can't you answer this simple question?

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<dd2d8774-400c-49f7-8ef2-11766ce9f27fn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90296&group=sci.physics.relativity#90296

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:59d4:0:b0:2f3:d13b:24e5 with SMTP id f20-20020ac859d4000000b002f3d13b24e5mr12574507qtf.58.1652636141013;
Sun, 15 May 2022 10:35:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:573:b0:69f:cf74:720 with SMTP id
p19-20020a05620a057300b0069fcf740720mr9811430qkp.683.1652636140858; Sun, 15
May 2022 10:35:40 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 10:35:40 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=83.25.21.5; posting-account=I3DWzAoAAACOmZUdDcZ-C0PqAZGVsbW0
NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.25.21.5
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <dd2d8774-400c-49f7-8ef2-11766ce9f27fn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
Injection-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 17:35:41 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 1548
 by: Maciej Wozniak - Sun, 15 May 2022 17:35 UTC

On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 19:16:34 UTC+2, Stan Fultoni wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 10:00:07 AM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
> > [Evasions]
>
> According to science, the elapsed proper time along a uniform path (no acceleration) between two given events ei and ej is sqrt[(ti-tj)^2) - (xi-xj)^2)].

As said, even the most bombastic name will make
it important somehow.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<62813b24$0$24819$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90298&group=sci.physics.relativity#90298

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.nntp4.net!news.gegeweb.eu!gegeweb.org!usenet-fr.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!cleanfeed1-b.proxad.net!nnrp5-1.free.fr!not-for-mail
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp>
From: pyt...@invalid (Python)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 19:40:47 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.7.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <62813b24$0$24819$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Organization: Guest of ProXad - France
NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 May 2022 19:40:52 CEST
NNTP-Posting-Host: 78.193.54.197
X-Trace: 1652636452 news-4.free.fr 24819 78.193.54.197:38852
X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net
 by: Python - Sun, 15 May 2022 17:40 UTC

Richard "Hachel" Lengrand (M.D.) wrote:
> It can be important, in science, to define things well.
>
> But it's not always easy.
>
> I gave Hachel's transformations (it's me: the most beautiful, the
> biggest, the most awesome).
>
> A small image is there.
>
> <http://news2.nemoweb.net/jntp?F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp/Data.Media:1>

Non linear atrociously ugly equations, necessarily wrong (incompatible
with Newton's laws of motion, even at low speed approximation), for
whatever definition of variables you have (that you didn't provide
anyway, as usual).

> There remains the problem of DEFINITIONS.

This is utterly idiotic. Definitions should be provided BEFORE writing
down equations. How can you be that STUPID Richard?

> In these equations, which everyone has recognized, appear To and t.
>
> How to call these two terms?
> Local time?
> Referential time?
> Observable time?
> Own time?
> Descent time?
> Chronotropy?
> Anisochronous time?
> How to clearly define To and t, so that the terms are as exact as possible.

You talk about definitions but you not even propose one. You are
confusing defining with naming. Naming well is important, of course.
Defining things is MANDATORY. Without definitions of terms equations are
basically MEANINGLESS.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<d7207dc9-5617-4490-b587-2d96ab38b5dan@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90299&group=sci.physics.relativity#90299

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:92:b0:2f3:ca38:e846 with SMTP id o18-20020a05622a009200b002f3ca38e846mr12800214qtw.94.1652636616905;
Sun, 15 May 2022 10:43:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a0c:9c08:0:b0:45a:a2a1:62e4 with SMTP id
v8-20020a0c9c08000000b0045aa2a162e4mr12396646qve.114.1652636616742; Sun, 15
May 2022 10:43:36 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 10:43:36 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <62813b24$0$24819$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=83.25.21.5; posting-account=I3DWzAoAAACOmZUdDcZ-C0PqAZGVsbW0
NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.25.21.5
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <62813b24$0$24819$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <d7207dc9-5617-4490-b587-2d96ab38b5dan@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
Injection-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 17:43:36 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 2010
 by: Maciej Wozniak - Sun, 15 May 2022 17:43 UTC

On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 19:40:55 UTC+2, Python wrote:
> Richard "Hachel" Lengrand (M.D.) wrote:
> > It can be important, in science, to define things well.
> >
> > But it's not always easy.
> >
> > I gave Hachel's transformations (it's me: the most beautiful, the
> > biggest, the most awesome).
> >
> > A small image is there.
> >
> > <http://news2.nemoweb.net/jntp?F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp/Data.Media:1>
> Non linear atrociously ugly equations, necessarily wrong (incompatible

Oh, stinker Python is opening its muzzle again,
and trying to pretend he knows something.
Tell me, poor stinker, what is your definition of
a "theory" in the terms of Peano arithmetic?
See: if a theorem is going to be a part of a theory,
it has to be formulable in the language of the
theory. Do you get it? Or are you too stupid even for
that, poor stinker?

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<by5dofDsvOvqBHbEs8QUiJK_9nY@jntp>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90300&group=sci.physics.relativity#90300

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!pasdenom.info!from-devjntp
Message-ID: <by5dofDsvOvqBHbEs8QUiJK_9nY@jntp>
JNTP-Route: news2.nemoweb.net
JNTP-DataType: Article
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
JNTP-HashClient: wmehkM03KpZFm00J_zWdE5ESxX8
JNTP-ThreadID: W0cJ6f7rXvgffeoP7IP3sc6mF2I
JNTP-Uri: http://news2.nemoweb.net/?DataID=by5dofDsvOvqBHbEs8QUiJK_9nY@jntp
User-Agent: Nemo/0.999a
JNTP-OriginServer: news2.nemoweb.net
Date: Sun, 15 May 22 17:44:19 +0000
Organization: Nemoweb
JNTP-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/101.0.4951.54 Safari/537.36
Injection-Info: news2.nemoweb.net; posting-host="314bd3f8e92196ce7e6a5ac25bb2618076139bd1"; logging-data="2022-05-15T17:44:19Z/6901358"; posting-account="4@news2.nemoweb.net"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@news2.nemoweb.net"
JNTP-ProtocolVersion: 0.21.1
JNTP-Server: PhpNemoServer/0.94.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-JNTP-JsonNewsGateway: 0.96
From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Sun, 15 May 2022 17:44 UTC

Le 15/05/2022 à 19:16, Stan Fultoni a écrit :
> According to science, the elapsed proper time along a uniform path (no
> acceleration) between two given events ei and ej is sqrt[(ti-tj)^2) - (xi-xj)^2)].
> You previously agreed with this, but now that you've seen it leads to a
> contradiction with your other claims, you deny it. So, the question to you is:
> What do you claim is the elapsed proper time along a uniform, unaccelerated,
> time-like path from a specified event with coordinates xi,ti to another specified
> event xj,tj in terms of any given system of inertial coordinates ?
>
> Why can't you answer this simple question?

I don't like this way of writing things and making them understood by
students.

But hey, everyone does what they want.

In my case, we write things like this:
To²=Tr²+Et²

Tr is the proper time, ie the real time of the object.

To is the observable time in the other frame.

Et is the universal "time spacing"

It's very simple to understand.

Most of the resulting equations are the same as those of relativists.

I didn't invent miraculous gunpowder.

R.H.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<KJn2TS_McWDfcIAwCthOycBMPU0@jntp>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90301&group=sci.physics.relativity#90301

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!pasdenom.info!from-devjntp
Message-ID: <KJn2TS_McWDfcIAwCthOycBMPU0@jntp>
JNTP-Route: news2.nemoweb.net
JNTP-DataType: Article
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <62813b24$0$24819$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
JNTP-HashClient: 67lRdQ6C8VHO3Fz_Ged1rikIblw
JNTP-ThreadID: W0cJ6f7rXvgffeoP7IP3sc6mF2I
JNTP-Uri: http://news2.nemoweb.net/?DataID=KJn2TS_McWDfcIAwCthOycBMPU0@jntp
User-Agent: Nemo/0.999a
JNTP-OriginServer: news2.nemoweb.net
Date: Sun, 15 May 22 17:50:48 +0000
Organization: Nemoweb
JNTP-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/101.0.4951.54 Safari/537.36
Injection-Info: news2.nemoweb.net; posting-host="314bd3f8e92196ce7e6a5ac25bb2618076139bd1"; logging-data="2022-05-15T17:50:48Z/6901377"; posting-account="4@news2.nemoweb.net"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@news2.nemoweb.net"
JNTP-ProtocolVersion: 0.21.1
JNTP-Server: PhpNemoServer/0.94.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-JNTP-JsonNewsGateway: 0.96
From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Sun, 15 May 2022 17:50 UTC

Le 15/05/2022 à 19:40, Python a écrit :

>> A small image is there.
>>
>> <http://news2.nemoweb.net/jntp?F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp/Data.Media:1>
>
> Non linear atrociously ugly equations, necessarily wrong

LOL.

Ce sont les transformations de Lorentz. :))

R.H.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<713838ef-b807-4542-8334-2f8876eb9119n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90303&group=sci.physics.relativity#90303

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:2aa2:b0:45a:ff4f:a656 with SMTP id js2-20020a0562142aa200b0045aff4fa656mr12177211qvb.90.1652637871501;
Sun, 15 May 2022 11:04:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:260d:b0:45a:e401:66ed with SMTP id
gu13-20020a056214260d00b0045ae40166edmr12322894qvb.37.1652637871359; Sun, 15
May 2022 11:04:31 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 11:04:31 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <by5dofDsvOvqBHbEs8QUiJK_9nY@jntp>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:601:1700:7df0:adc6:c9ee:a437:f3eb;
posting-account=mPYpNwoAAADYT6u25jo4wRqpXbzZAAhf
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:601:1700:7df0:adc6:c9ee:a437:f3eb
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>
<by5dofDsvOvqBHbEs8QUiJK_9nY@jntp>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <713838ef-b807-4542-8334-2f8876eb9119n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
Injection-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 18:04:31 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2702
 by: Stan Fultoni - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:04 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 10:44:22 AM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
> Le 15/05/2022 à 19:16, Stan Fultoni a écrit :
> > According to science, the elapsed proper time along a uniform path (no
> > acceleration) between two given events ei and ej is sqrt[(ti-tj)^2) - (xi-xj)^2)].
> > You previously agreed with this, but now that you've seen it leads to a
> > contradiction with your other claims, you deny it. So, the question to you is:
> > What do you claim is the elapsed proper time along a uniform, unaccelerated,
> > time-like path from a specified event with coordinates xi,ti to another specified
> > event xj,tj in terms of any given system of inertial coordinates ?
> >
> > Why can't you answer this simple question?
>
> I don't like this way of writing things and making them understood by
> students.

Feel free to write the answer in whatever way you like, but please the question. In terms of a given system of inertial coordinates x,t, if an ideal clock moves uniformly (no acceleration) from the event with coordinates x1,t1 to the event x2,t2, how much elapsed time shows on the clock?
Why can't you answer this question? The whole point of the subject is to be able to answer this question. If you cannot answer this question, then everything you are saying is worthless.

Please answer the question.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<f6ccd5a0-1c37-4155-82bb-84f77f2f8640n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90304&group=sci.physics.relativity#90304

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:59cd:0:b0:2f3:c08d:9ffa with SMTP id f13-20020ac859cd000000b002f3c08d9ffamr12713012qtf.564.1652638232410;
Sun, 15 May 2022 11:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a37:6786:0:b0:6a0:59f1:d8ae with SMTP id
b128-20020a376786000000b006a059f1d8aemr9769070qkc.649.1652638232247; Sun, 15
May 2022 11:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 11:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <713838ef-b807-4542-8334-2f8876eb9119n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=83.25.21.5; posting-account=I3DWzAoAAACOmZUdDcZ-C0PqAZGVsbW0
NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.25.21.5
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>
<by5dofDsvOvqBHbEs8QUiJK_9nY@jntp> <713838ef-b807-4542-8334-2f8876eb9119n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <f6ccd5a0-1c37-4155-82bb-84f77f2f8640n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
Injection-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 18:10:32 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2598
 by: Maciej Wozniak - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:10 UTC

On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 20:04:32 UTC+2, Stan Fultoni wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 10:44:22 AM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
> > Le 15/05/2022 à 19:16, Stan Fultoni a écrit :
> > > According to science, the elapsed proper time along a uniform path (no
> > > acceleration) between two given events ei and ej is sqrt[(ti-tj)^2) - (xi-xj)^2)].
> > > You previously agreed with this, but now that you've seen it leads to a
> > > contradiction with your other claims, you deny it. So, the question to you is:
> > > What do you claim is the elapsed proper time along a uniform, unaccelerated,
> > > time-like path from a specified event with coordinates xi,ti to another specified
> > > event xj,tj in terms of any given system of inertial coordinates ?
> > >
> > > Why can't you answer this simple question?
> >
> > I don't like this way of writing things and making them understood by
> > students.
> Feel free to write the answer in whatever way you like, but please the question. In terms of a given system of inertial coordinates x,t, if an ideal clock

It's only ideal for your bunch of brainwashed
halfbrains; serious people doing serious measurements
in the real world have other preferences.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<Lk7o6JFhLsJY9C3W8q5s4zqMPOY@jntp>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90305&group=sci.physics.relativity#90305

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!pasdenom.info!from-devjntp
Message-ID: <Lk7o6JFhLsJY9C3W8q5s4zqMPOY@jntp>
JNTP-Route: news2.nemoweb.net
JNTP-DataType: Article
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <62813b24$0$24819$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
JNTP-HashClient: RF5PMc9lAqv7mKYEPg_RgFrBLmM
JNTP-ThreadID: W0cJ6f7rXvgffeoP7IP3sc6mF2I
JNTP-Uri: http://news2.nemoweb.net/?DataID=Lk7o6JFhLsJY9C3W8q5s4zqMPOY@jntp
User-Agent: Nemo/0.999a
JNTP-OriginServer: news2.nemoweb.net
Date: Sun, 15 May 22 18:12:34 +0000
Organization: Nemoweb
JNTP-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/101.0.4951.54 Safari/537.36
Injection-Info: news2.nemoweb.net; posting-host="314bd3f8e92196ce7e6a5ac25bb2618076139bd1"; logging-data="2022-05-15T18:12:34Z/6901431"; posting-account="4@news2.nemoweb.net"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@news2.nemoweb.net"
JNTP-ProtocolVersion: 0.21.1
JNTP-Server: PhpNemoServer/0.94.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-JNTP-JsonNewsGateway: 0.96
From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:12 UTC

Le 15/05/2022 à 19:40, Python a écrit :

> You talk about definitions but you not even propose one. You are
> confusing defining with naming. Naming well is important, of course.
> Defining things is MANDATORY. Without definitions of terms equations are
> basically MEANINGLESS.

Oui, évidemment.

Maintenant, on peut très bien comprendre les choses sans réellement les
définir.

Ou les définir sans les comprendre. L'épicier chinois comprendra que je
définis quelque chose de précis en lui disant que je veux cent grammes
de cerises, mais ne saura pas à quoi ça correspond si je ne lui montre
le fruit qu'il connait mieux que moi.

Lorsque je pose To²=Tr²+Et², je m'étonne que certains ne me
comprennent pas, alors qu'ils comprennent une notation plus complexe de
type ds²=c²t²-l² dont je n'ai que faire dans toute ma réflexion.

Pour le reste, je comprends fort bien à quoi correspondent les
transformations de Lorentz améliorées, sans que je ne parvienne ç
donner un nom universel à ce que j'appelle t (petit t). C'est évidemment
le temps sur la montre placée en O, mais la difficulté consiste à faire
comprendre que justement, dans ce repère
centré sur O, aucune montre ne marque pour O la même heure que O.

Temps de la montre, c'est très vrai. Mais bon, c'est pas très joli comme
terme.

Pour To, temps référentiel, ou chronotropie locale, c'est très vrai
aussi. Mais idem. Le terme n'est pas très joli.

Et c'est d'autant plus arrdu que les auditeurs sont, eux, formaté à un
autre lexique, qui même basé sur des concepts faux (contraction des
distances et non élasticité des distances, time gap bizarre et mal
compris, temps propre faux dans les milieux accélérés) les rend
contents d'eux.

R.H.

R.H.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<62814467$0$24795$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90306&group=sci.physics.relativity#90306

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!cleanfeed1-b.proxad.net!nnrp5-1.free.fr!not-for-mail
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 20:20:36 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:91.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.9.0
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
Content-Language: fr
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp>
<62813b24$0$24819$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <Lk7o6JFhLsJY9C3W8q5s4zqMPOY@jntp>
From: pyt...@python.invalid (Python)
In-Reply-To: <Lk7o6JFhLsJY9C3W8q5s4zqMPOY@jntp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <62814467$0$24795$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Organization: Guest of ProXad - France
NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 May 2022 20:20:23 CEST
NNTP-Posting-Host: 176.150.91.24
X-Trace: 1652638823 news-4.free.fr 24795 176.150.91.24:54730
X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net
 by: Python - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:20 UTC

Richard "Hachel" Hachel (M.D.) wrote:
> [snip French garbage, this is an Enlish speaking group]

> Pour le reste, je comprends fort bien à quoi correspondent les
> transformations de Lorentz

No you don't understand what LT are about, especially not the
time coordinate. You've shown numerous times you don't. It
is likely you'll never do.

> améliorées

You didn't "improve" anything, you've produces a pile of sh*t.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<nlMlJ61vGvGEcs4pRi_rcBw43oo@jntp>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90307&group=sci.physics.relativity#90307

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!pasdenom.info!from-devjntp
Message-ID: <nlMlJ61vGvGEcs4pRi_rcBw43oo@jntp>
JNTP-Route: news2.nemoweb.net
JNTP-DataType: Article
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>
<by5dofDsvOvqBHbEs8QUiJK_9nY@jntp> <713838ef-b807-4542-8334-2f8876eb9119n@googlegroups.com>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
JNTP-HashClient: d9c6TuvesEtPMcf7dVnv2rgdivA
JNTP-ThreadID: W0cJ6f7rXvgffeoP7IP3sc6mF2I
JNTP-Uri: http://news2.nemoweb.net/?DataID=nlMlJ61vGvGEcs4pRi_rcBw43oo@jntp
User-Agent: Nemo/0.999a
JNTP-OriginServer: news2.nemoweb.net
Date: Sun, 15 May 22 18:30:11 +0000
Organization: Nemoweb
JNTP-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/101.0.4951.54 Safari/537.36
Injection-Info: news2.nemoweb.net; posting-host="314bd3f8e92196ce7e6a5ac25bb2618076139bd1"; logging-data="2022-05-15T18:30:11Z/6901479"; posting-account="4@news2.nemoweb.net"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@news2.nemoweb.net"
JNTP-ProtocolVersion: 0.21.1
JNTP-Server: PhpNemoServer/0.94.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-JNTP-JsonNewsGateway: 0.96
From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:30 UTC

Le 15/05/2022 à 20:04, Stan Fultoni a écrit :
> Feel free to write the answer in whatever way you like, but please the question.
> In terms of a given system of inertial coordinates x,t, if an ideal clock moves
> uniformly (no acceleration) from the event with coordinates x1,t1 to the event
> x2,t2, how much elapsed time shows on the clock?
>
> Why can't you answer this question? The whole point of the subject is to be
> able to answer this question. If you cannot answer this question, then everything
> you are saying is worthless.
>
> Please answer the question.

I will answer your question.

We assume a clock moving in a given reference frame.

At time t1, for me, it is at (40,0,0). Coordonates second-light.

At time t2, it is at (32,0,0).

It has therefore traveled x=8, and I note on my watch that To (time that I
observe) =10 seconds.

I need to find the proper time of this clock between E1 and E2.

Improper time is To=10 seconds

So I put very easily To²=Tr²+Et²

Here I am looking for Tr (the real or proper time of the clock).

I'll let you do the math.

Fourteen-year-old Micheline managed to find it in less than a minute, and
head on.

We don't even need to know that the body under study is moving at 0.8c.

R.H.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<WxxBLesBJKElzKdOfzBH_Ksk0aw@jntp>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90308&group=sci.physics.relativity#90308

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!pasdenom.info!from-devjntp
Message-ID: <WxxBLesBJKElzKdOfzBH_Ksk0aw@jntp>
JNTP-Route: news2.nemoweb.net
JNTP-DataType: Article
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <62813b24$0$24819$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <Lk7o6JFhLsJY9C3W8q5s4zqMPOY@jntp>
<62814467$0$24795$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
JNTP-HashClient: 2Z-mNg6U_2t8vFoLmE9PnW1jKVU
JNTP-ThreadID: W0cJ6f7rXvgffeoP7IP3sc6mF2I
JNTP-Uri: http://news2.nemoweb.net/?DataID=WxxBLesBJKElzKdOfzBH_Ksk0aw@jntp
User-Agent: Nemo/0.999a
JNTP-OriginServer: news2.nemoweb.net
Date: Sun, 15 May 22 18:32:54 +0000
Organization: Nemoweb
JNTP-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/101.0.4951.54 Safari/537.36
Injection-Info: news2.nemoweb.net; posting-host="314bd3f8e92196ce7e6a5ac25bb2618076139bd1"; logging-data="2022-05-15T18:32:54Z/6901492"; posting-account="4@news2.nemoweb.net"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@news2.nemoweb.net"
JNTP-ProtocolVersion: 0.21.1
JNTP-Server: PhpNemoServer/0.94.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-JNTP-JsonNewsGateway: 0.96
From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:32 UTC

Le 15/05/2022 à 20:20, Python a écrit :

> You didn't "improve" anything, you've produces a pile of sh*t.

Everyone makes the judgments they want.

This is scientific democracy.

You have the right not to love.

R.H.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<62814a55$0$22060$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90309&group=sci.physics.relativity#90309

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.nntp4.net!news.gegeweb.eu!gegeweb.org!usenet-fr.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!212.27.60.64.MISMATCH!cleanfeed3-b.proxad.net!nnrp3-2.free.fr!not-for-mail
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 20:45:58 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:91.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.9.0
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
Content-Language: fr
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp>
<62813b24$0$24819$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <Lk7o6JFhLsJY9C3W8q5s4zqMPOY@jntp>
<62814467$0$24795$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <WxxBLesBJKElzKdOfzBH_Ksk0aw@jntp>
From: pyt...@python.invalid (Python)
In-Reply-To: <WxxBLesBJKElzKdOfzBH_Ksk0aw@jntp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <62814a55$0$22060$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Organization: Guest of ProXad - France
NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 May 2022 20:45:41 CEST
NNTP-Posting-Host: 176.150.91.24
X-Trace: 1652640341 news-3.free.fr 22060 176.150.91.24:54991
X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net
 by: Python - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:45 UTC

Richard "Hachel" Lengrand (M.D.) :
> Le 15/05/2022 à 20:20, Python a écrit :
>
>> You didn't "improve" anything, you've produced a pile of sh*t.
>
> Everyone makes the judgments they want.

This is not how sciences works, claims without support or arguments
are useless.

> This is scientific democracy.

It is not a democracy.

> You have the right not to love.

The point is not to "love", the point is that it can be proven
you have produced bullshit.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<Wj5XK9K8x5Bflf27jWPZTKBZ6Do@jntp>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90310&group=sci.physics.relativity#90310

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!pasdenom.info!from-devjntp
Message-ID: <Wj5XK9K8x5Bflf27jWPZTKBZ6Do@jntp>
JNTP-Route: news2.nemoweb.net
JNTP-DataType: Article
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>
<dd2d8774-400c-49f7-8ef2-11766ce9f27fn@googlegroups.com>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
JNTP-HashClient: fSpTjFIpV5FFbtMzEt6Dg76cQbA
JNTP-ThreadID: W0cJ6f7rXvgffeoP7IP3sc6mF2I
JNTP-Uri: http://news2.nemoweb.net/?DataID=Wj5XK9K8x5Bflf27jWPZTKBZ6Do@jntp
User-Agent: Nemo/0.999a
JNTP-OriginServer: news2.nemoweb.net
Date: Sun, 15 May 22 18:47:09 +0000
Organization: Nemoweb
JNTP-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/101.0.4951.54 Safari/537.36
Injection-Info: news2.nemoweb.net; posting-host="314bd3f8e92196ce7e6a5ac25bb2618076139bd1"; logging-data="2022-05-15T18:47:09Z/6901518"; posting-account="4@news2.nemoweb.net"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@news2.nemoweb.net"
JNTP-ProtocolVersion: 0.21.1
JNTP-Server: PhpNemoServer/0.94.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-JNTP-JsonNewsGateway: 0.96
From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:47 UTC

Le 15/05/2022 à 19:35, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
> On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 19:16:34 UTC+2, Stan Fultoni wrote:
>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 10:00:07 AM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
>> > [Evasions]
>>
>> According to science, the elapsed proper time along a uniform path (no
>> acceleration) between two given events ei and ej is sqrt[(ti-tj)^2) - (xi-xj)^2)].
>
> As said, even the most bombastic name will make
> it important somehow.

In fact, when he poses this equation, he means that ds is constant.

That is to say that the speed of light is constant by change of frame of
reference.

It is an innocent and silly truth.

A dog is a dog, black is black, and when a swallow flies in the sky, a
swallow flies in the sky.

I think we should abandon these sorts of notations, which are otherwise
not needed in relativity.

Ces notations nuisent plus qu'elles n'éclairent les choses.

Au final; on en arrive même à des calculs faux (métrique du Langevin
complètement folle, temps propre du Tau Ceti largement sous-estimé).

R.H.

R.H.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<LKtQx1RbQtp8BBuKdvSY3DygFZE@jntp>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90311&group=sci.physics.relativity#90311

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!pasdenom.info!from-devjntp
Message-ID: <LKtQx1RbQtp8BBuKdvSY3DygFZE@jntp>
JNTP-Route: news2.nemoweb.net
JNTP-DataType: Article
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <62813b24$0$24819$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <Lk7o6JFhLsJY9C3W8q5s4zqMPOY@jntp>
<62814467$0$24795$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <WxxBLesBJKElzKdOfzBH_Ksk0aw@jntp> <62814a55$0$22060$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
JNTP-HashClient: AlDJEpud6rLoqu9ViX714p9VTkg
JNTP-ThreadID: W0cJ6f7rXvgffeoP7IP3sc6mF2I
JNTP-Uri: http://news2.nemoweb.net/?DataID=LKtQx1RbQtp8BBuKdvSY3DygFZE@jntp
User-Agent: Nemo/0.999a
JNTP-OriginServer: news2.nemoweb.net
Date: Sun, 15 May 22 18:48:07 +0000
Organization: Nemoweb
JNTP-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/101.0.4951.54 Safari/537.36
Injection-Info: news2.nemoweb.net; posting-host="314bd3f8e92196ce7e6a5ac25bb2618076139bd1"; logging-data="2022-05-15T18:48:07Z/6901520"; posting-account="4@news2.nemoweb.net"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@news2.nemoweb.net"
JNTP-ProtocolVersion: 0.21.1
JNTP-Server: PhpNemoServer/0.94.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-JNTP-JsonNewsGateway: 0.96
From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:48 UTC

Le 15/05/2022 à 20:45, Python a écrit :
> Richard "Hachel" Lengrand (M.D.) :
>> Le 15/05/2022 à 20:20, Python a écrit :
>>
>>> You didn't "improve" anything, you've produced a pile of sh*t.
>>
>> Everyone makes the judgments they want.
>
> This is not how sciences works, claims without support or arguments
> are useless.
>
>> This is scientific democracy.
>
> It is not a democracy.
>
>> You have the right not to love.
>
> The point is not to "love", the point is that it can be proven
> you have produced bullshit.

It can be?

R.H.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<01d5b3ae-24ae-444e-9ec3-e5e44aceeec9n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90312&group=sci.physics.relativity#90312

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:5b8c:0:b0:45a:9340:ef92 with SMTP id 12-20020ad45b8c000000b0045a9340ef92mr12383572qvp.85.1652640837800;
Sun, 15 May 2022 11:53:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:45a7:b0:6a0:3399:c9ce with SMTP id
bp39-20020a05620a45a700b006a03399c9cemr10070788qkb.590.1652640837642; Sun, 15
May 2022 11:53:57 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 11:53:57 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <Lk7o6JFhLsJY9C3W8q5s4zqMPOY@jntp>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=83.25.21.5; posting-account=I3DWzAoAAACOmZUdDcZ-C0PqAZGVsbW0
NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.25.21.5
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <62813b24$0$24819$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
<Lk7o6JFhLsJY9C3W8q5s4zqMPOY@jntp>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <01d5b3ae-24ae-444e-9ec3-e5e44aceeec9n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
Injection-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 18:53:57 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 1783
 by: Maciej Wozniak - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:53 UTC

On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 20:12:37 UTC+2, Richard Hachel wrote:
> Le 15/05/2022 à 19:40, Python a écrit :
> > You talk about definitions but you not even propose one. You are
> > confusing defining with naming. Naming well is important, of course.
> > Defining things is MANDATORY. Without definitions of terms equations are
> > basically MEANINGLESS.
> Oui, évidemment.

Are you really buying this bullshit? A simple
analysis of Python's mumble, or of the mumble
of his idiot gurus reveals it's only MANDATORY
for their opponents.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<f3f0f255-e894-409e-9a2e-bb5cb58c389an@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90313&group=sci.physics.relativity#90313

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:a37:bc8:0:b0:69f:a898:cefb with SMTP id 191-20020a370bc8000000b0069fa898cefbmr9829585qkl.525.1652640885934;
Sun, 15 May 2022 11:54:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7d11:0:b0:2f7:917a:e365 with SMTP id
g17-20020ac87d11000000b002f7917ae365mr4948195qtb.247.1652640885769; Sun, 15
May 2022 11:54:45 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 11:54:45 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <nlMlJ61vGvGEcs4pRi_rcBw43oo@jntp>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:601:1700:7df0:adc6:c9ee:a437:f3eb;
posting-account=mPYpNwoAAADYT6u25jo4wRqpXbzZAAhf
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:601:1700:7df0:adc6:c9ee:a437:f3eb
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>
<by5dofDsvOvqBHbEs8QUiJK_9nY@jntp> <713838ef-b807-4542-8334-2f8876eb9119n@googlegroups.com>
<nlMlJ61vGvGEcs4pRi_rcBw43oo@jntp>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <f3f0f255-e894-409e-9a2e-bb5cb58c389an@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
Injection-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 18:54:45 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3856
 by: Stan Fultoni - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:54 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:30:14 AM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
> Le 15/05/2022 à 20:04, Stan Fultoni a écrit :
> > Feel free to write the answer in whatever way you like, but please the question.
> > In terms of a given system of inertial coordinates x,t, if an ideal clock moves
> > uniformly (no acceleration) from the event with coordinates x1,t1 to the event
> > x2,t2, how much elapsed time shows on the clock?
> >
> > Why can't you answer this question? The whole point of the subject is to be
> > able to answer this question. If you cannot answer this question, then everything
> > you are saying is worthless.
> >
> > Please answer the question.
> I will answer your question.
>
> At time t1, for me, it is at (40,0,0). Coordinates second-light.
> At time t2, it is at (32,0,0). It has therefore traveled x=8, and I
> note on my watch that To (time that I observe) =10 seconds.
> So I put very easily To²=Tr²+Et²

Again you contradict yourself. You are now saying that the elapsed proper time for the clock as it goes a coordinate distance |x2-x1| = 8 in a coordinate time |t2-t1| = 10 is given by tau2 - tau1 = sqrt[(t2-t1)^2 - (x2-x1)^2], but this is precisely what you previously denied. (Why do you keep lying?)

Also, please note that your statement has nothing to do with the specific indices. They are arbitrary labels. You have now admitted that for a clock going from xi,ti to event xj,tj the elapsed proper time is taui - tauj = sqrt[(tj-ti)^2 - (xj-xi)^2].

But this brings us back to the fact that your claims about accelerating paths are self-contradictory, because, for any three events e1,e2,e3 on a constantly accelerating path, where the accelerating clock reads the proper time values tau1,tau2,tau3, your claim is that

.. . tau2 - tau1 = sqrt[(t2-t1)^2 - (x2-x1)^2/c^2]
.. . tau3 - tau2 = sqrt[(t3-t2)^2 - (x3-x2)^2/c^2]
.. . tau3 - tau1 = sqrt[(t3-t1)^2 - (x3-x1)^2/c^2]

but these relations are self-contradictory, because

.. . (tau2-tau1) + (tau3-tau2) = (tau3-tau1)

and if you add the right sides of the first two expression, it does not equal the right side of the third expression unless the three events e1,e2,e3 are co-linear, meaning the accelerating path is not accelerating. This proves that your claims are self-contradictory.

Now do you understand?

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<emzhjcwHKEzqKhKftjPzI4YJsSk@jntp>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90316&group=sci.physics.relativity#90316

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!pasdenom.info!from-devjntp
Message-ID: <emzhjcwHKEzqKhKftjPzI4YJsSk@jntp>
JNTP-Route: news2.nemoweb.net
JNTP-DataType: Article
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>
<by5dofDsvOvqBHbEs8QUiJK_9nY@jntp> <713838ef-b807-4542-8334-2f8876eb9119n@googlegroups.com>
<nlMlJ61vGvGEcs4pRi_rcBw43oo@jntp> <f3f0f255-e894-409e-9a2e-bb5cb58c389an@googlegroups.com>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
JNTP-HashClient: 8ZM0Ez4LRKtFBTIhNRs1hZB4Ujc
JNTP-ThreadID: W0cJ6f7rXvgffeoP7IP3sc6mF2I
JNTP-Uri: http://news2.nemoweb.net/?DataID=emzhjcwHKEzqKhKftjPzI4YJsSk@jntp
User-Agent: Nemo/0.999a
JNTP-OriginServer: news2.nemoweb.net
Date: Sun, 15 May 22 19:30:56 +0000
Organization: Nemoweb
JNTP-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/101.0.4951.54 Safari/537.36
Injection-Info: news2.nemoweb.net; posting-host="314bd3f8e92196ce7e6a5ac25bb2618076139bd1"; logging-data="2022-05-15T19:30:56Z/6901619"; posting-account="4@news2.nemoweb.net"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@news2.nemoweb.net"
JNTP-ProtocolVersion: 0.21.1
JNTP-Server: PhpNemoServer/0.94.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-JNTP-JsonNewsGateway: 0.96
From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Sun, 15 May 2022 19:30 UTC

Le 15/05/2022 à 20:54, Stan Fultoni a écrit :
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:30:14 AM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
>> Le 15/05/2022 à 20:04, Stan Fultoni a écrit :
>> > Feel free to write the answer in whatever way you like, but please the
>> question.
>> > In terms of a given system of inertial coordinates x,t, if an ideal clock
>> moves
>> > uniformly (no acceleration) from the event with coordinates x1,t1 to the event
>>
>> > x2,t2, how much elapsed time shows on the clock?
>> >
>> > Why can't you answer this question? The whole point of the subject is to be
>> > able to answer this question. If you cannot answer this question, then
>> everything
>> > you are saying is worthless.
>> >
>> > Please answer the question.
>> I will answer your question.
>>
>> At time t1, for me, it is at (40,0,0). Coordinates second-light.
>> At time t2, it is at (32,0,0). It has therefore traveled x=8, and I
>> note on my watch that To (time that I observe) =10 seconds.
>> So I put very easily To²=Tr²+Et²
>
> Again you contradict yourself. You are now saying that the elapsed proper time
> for the clock as it goes a coordinate distance |x2-x1| = 8 in a coordinate time
> |t2-t1| = 10 is given by tau2 - tau1 = sqrt[(t2-t1)^2 - (x2-x1)^2], but this is
> precisely what you previously denied. (Why do you keep lying?)

But I'm not lying, I'm saying it's okay.

My complaints don't go there.

My grievances go to the formulation of the relativists' equations.

I say that not only is it not beautiful, but that it ultimately leads to
obviously absurd and false things.

I'm not saying EVERYTHING is wrong.

I don't think I've said that before.

I wouldn't have invested forty years of my life wondering about an
entirely false theory. Two months would have been enough.

Now take a good look: in your three assertions, which all look alike, two
are true, but the central one is false.

This is false.
tau3 - tau2 = sqrt[(t3-t2)^2 - (x3-x2)^2/c^2]

The first line is correct and the last too.

> but these relations are self-contradictory, because
> (tau2-tau1) + (tau3-tau2) = (tau3-tau1)

This is true on the other hand, the sum of two times is the sum of these
two times (Lapalisse).

Tr=Tr1+Tr2

A duck is a duck.

It is obvious.

However, it looks like you are misunderstanding something, I don't know
why.

Maybe because your metric which you believe to be correct (admitted
relativity) is not.

I explained, as I did for the "Langevin" where the blunder of the "Tau
Ceti" was, it's up to you to understand why I say that and how to rectify
all that.
>
> Also, please note that your statement has nothing to do with the specific
> indices. They are arbitrary labels. You have now admitted that for a clock going
> from xi,ti to event xj,tj the elapsed proper time is taui - tauj = sqrt[(tj-ti)^2
> - (xj-xi)^2].
>
> But this brings us back to the fact that your claims about accelerating paths
> are self-contradictory, because, for any three events e1,e2,e3 on a constantly
> accelerating path, where the accelerating clock reads the proper time values
> tau1,tau2,tau3, your claim is that
>
> . . tau2 - tau1 = sqrt[(t2-t1)^2 - (x2-x1)^2/c^2]
> . . tau3 - tau2 = sqrt[(t3-t2)^2 - (x3-x2)^2/c^2]
> . . tau3 - tau1 = sqrt[(t3-t1)^2 - (x3-x1)^2/c^2]
>
> but these relations are self-contradictory, because
>
> . . (tau2-tau1) + (tau3-tau2) = (tau3-tau1)
>
> and if you add the right sides of the first two expression, it does not equal
> the right side of the third expression unless the three events e1,e2,e3 are
> co-linear, meaning the accelerating path is not accelerating. This proves that
> your claims are self-contradictory.
>
> Now do you understand?

Now, a contrario, do you understand me?

R.H.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<b5ec9fe8-88d8-41a9-92d1-ce9d8a685dd9n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90318&group=sci.physics.relativity#90318

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:188a:b0:2f3:f4a8:ac9b with SMTP id v10-20020a05622a188a00b002f3f4a8ac9bmr12878219qtc.396.1652644408189;
Sun, 15 May 2022 12:53:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1e12:b0:2f3:d254:45b7 with SMTP id
br18-20020a05622a1e1200b002f3d25445b7mr13237639qtb.88.1652644408018; Sun, 15
May 2022 12:53:28 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 12:53:27 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <emzhjcwHKEzqKhKftjPzI4YJsSk@jntp>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:601:1700:7df0:adc6:c9ee:a437:f3eb;
posting-account=mPYpNwoAAADYT6u25jo4wRqpXbzZAAhf
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:601:1700:7df0:adc6:c9ee:a437:f3eb
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>
<by5dofDsvOvqBHbEs8QUiJK_9nY@jntp> <713838ef-b807-4542-8334-2f8876eb9119n@googlegroups.com>
<nlMlJ61vGvGEcs4pRi_rcBw43oo@jntp> <f3f0f255-e894-409e-9a2e-bb5cb58c389an@googlegroups.com>
<emzhjcwHKEzqKhKftjPzI4YJsSk@jntp>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <b5ec9fe8-88d8-41a9-92d1-ce9d8a685dd9n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
Injection-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 19:53:28 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 4329
 by: Stan Fultoni - Sun, 15 May 2022 19:53 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:30:59 PM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
> >> At time t1, for me, it is at (40,0,0). Coordinates second-light.
> >> At time t2, it is at (32,0,0). It has therefore traveled x=8, and I
> >> note on my watch that To (time that I observe) =10 seconds.
> >> So I put very easily To²=Tr²+Et²
> >
> > Again you contradict yourself. You are now saying that the elapsed proper time
> > for the clock as it goes a coordinate distance |x2-x1| = 8 in a coordinate time
> > |t2-t1| = 10 is given by tau2 - tau1 = sqrt[(t2-t1)^2 - (x2-x1)^2], but this is
> > precisely what you previously denied. (Why do you keep lying?)
>
> But I'm not lying, I'm saying it's okay.

No, you are flagrantly lying, because in one sentence you admit that for a clock going from xi,ti to event xj,tj the elapsed proper time is taui - tauj = sqrt[(tj-ti)^2 - (xj-xi)^2], and in the next sentence you deny it. That is lying. If you want to think about science, you must find within yourself some intellectual integrity.

> Now take a good look: in your three assertions, which all look alike, two
> are true, but the central one is false.

No, the three assertions are each of the form taui - tauj = sqrt[(tj-ti)^2 - (xj-xi)^2], which you have agreed is true, but then you deny it, and then you agree, and then you deny, and then... You are flagrantly self-contradictory. The problem is that this statement is fundamental to your claims, so you can't deny it, but it is also self-contradictory, so you must deny it. That's why you are suffering from severe cognitive dissonance.

Again, your claims about accelerating paths are self-contradictory, because, for any three events e1,e2,e3 on a constantly accelerating path, where the accelerating clock reads the proper time values tau1,tau2,tau3, your claim is that for a non-accelerating path taui - tauj = sqrt[(tj-ti)^2 - (xj-xi)^2] for any i,j, and that the elapsed proper time on the accelerating path equals the elapsed time on the unaccelerated path, so all three of the follow are true:
. . tau2 - tau1 = sqrt[(t2-t1)^2 - (x2-x1)^2/c^2]
. . tau3 - tau2 = sqrt[(t3-t2)^2 - (x3-x2)^2/c^2]
. . tau3 - tau1 = sqrt[(t3-t1)^2 - (x3-x1)^2/c^2]
but these relations are self-contradictory, because we have
. . (tau2-tau1) + (tau3-tau2) = (tau3-tau1)
whereas if you add the right sides of the first two expression, it does not equal the right side of the third expression unless the three events e1,e2,e3 are co-linear, meaning the accelerating path is not accelerating. This proves that your claims are self-contradictory.

Now do you understand why your beliefs are fundamental self-contradictory?

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<RCVxC4Lhaq1iNqzI7Zjr5LiEyBo@jntp>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90320&group=sci.physics.relativity#90320

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!pasdenom.info!from-devjntp
Message-ID: <RCVxC4Lhaq1iNqzI7Zjr5LiEyBo@jntp>
JNTP-Route: news2.nemoweb.net
JNTP-DataType: Article
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>
<by5dofDsvOvqBHbEs8QUiJK_9nY@jntp> <713838ef-b807-4542-8334-2f8876eb9119n@googlegroups.com>
<nlMlJ61vGvGEcs4pRi_rcBw43oo@jntp> <f3f0f255-e894-409e-9a2e-bb5cb58c389an@googlegroups.com>
<emzhjcwHKEzqKhKftjPzI4YJsSk@jntp> <b5ec9fe8-88d8-41a9-92d1-ce9d8a685dd9n@googlegroups.com>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
JNTP-HashClient: MyuV__3uqOo058IF8q1SMvaVHMw
JNTP-ThreadID: W0cJ6f7rXvgffeoP7IP3sc6mF2I
JNTP-Uri: http://news2.nemoweb.net/?DataID=RCVxC4Lhaq1iNqzI7Zjr5LiEyBo@jntp
User-Agent: Nemo/0.999a
JNTP-OriginServer: news2.nemoweb.net
Date: Sun, 15 May 22 20:08:20 +0000
Organization: Nemoweb
JNTP-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/101.0.4951.54 Safari/537.36
Injection-Info: news2.nemoweb.net; posting-host="314bd3f8e92196ce7e6a5ac25bb2618076139bd1"; logging-data="2022-05-15T20:08:20Z/6901722"; posting-account="4@news2.nemoweb.net"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@news2.nemoweb.net"
JNTP-ProtocolVersion: 0.21.1
JNTP-Server: PhpNemoServer/0.94.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-JNTP-JsonNewsGateway: 0.96
From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Sun, 15 May 2022 20:08 UTC

Le 15/05/2022 à 21:53, Stan Fultoni a écrit :
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:30:59 PM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
>> >> At time t1, for me, it is at (40,0,0). Coordinates second-light.
>> >> At time t2, it is at (32,0,0). It has therefore traveled x=8, and I
>> >> note on my watch that To (time that I observe) =10 seconds.
>> >> So I put very easily To²=Tr²+Et²
>> >
>> > Again you contradict yourself. You are now saying that the elapsed proper time
>>
>> > for the clock as it goes a coordinate distance |x2-x1| = 8 in a coordinate
>> time
>> > |t2-t1| = 10 is given by tau2 - tau1 = sqrt[(t2-t1)^2 - (x2-x1)^2], but this
>> is
>> > precisely what you previously denied. (Why do you keep lying?)
>>
>> But I'm not lying, I'm saying it's okay.
>
> No, you are flagrantly lying, because in one sentence you admit that for a clock
> going from xi,ti to event xj,tj the elapsed proper time is taui - tauj =
> sqrt[(tj-ti)^2 - (xj-xi)^2], and in the next sentence you deny it. That is lying.
> If you want to think about science, you must find within yourself some
> intellectual integrity.

But no !

I said your equation was correct.

That she was good in the first case, and the third case.

But that the second case posed a problem.

I don't see why you say I contradict myself.

I say the equation is correct.

EXCEPT in the case of the second line.

I also say that plane geometry is correct.

Except, of course, in the case of terrestrial meridians because we are no
longer in plane geometry.

What don't you understand?

R.H.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<f8ece962-1234-4a5b-86dd-feaa35dd70d9n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90321&group=sci.physics.relativity#90321

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1008:b0:2f3:cded:9075 with SMTP id d8-20020a05622a100800b002f3cded9075mr12954426qte.550.1652646344126;
Sun, 15 May 2022 13:25:44 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:43a4:b0:6a2:e7dc:40c2 with SMTP id
a36-20020a05620a43a400b006a2e7dc40c2mr2213418qkp.404.1652646343957; Sun, 15
May 2022 13:25:43 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 13:25:43 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <RCVxC4Lhaq1iNqzI7Zjr5LiEyBo@jntp>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:601:1700:7df0:adc6:c9ee:a437:f3eb;
posting-account=mPYpNwoAAADYT6u25jo4wRqpXbzZAAhf
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:601:1700:7df0:adc6:c9ee:a437:f3eb
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>
<by5dofDsvOvqBHbEs8QUiJK_9nY@jntp> <713838ef-b807-4542-8334-2f8876eb9119n@googlegroups.com>
<nlMlJ61vGvGEcs4pRi_rcBw43oo@jntp> <f3f0f255-e894-409e-9a2e-bb5cb58c389an@googlegroups.com>
<emzhjcwHKEzqKhKftjPzI4YJsSk@jntp> <b5ec9fe8-88d8-41a9-92d1-ce9d8a685dd9n@googlegroups.com>
<RCVxC4Lhaq1iNqzI7Zjr5LiEyBo@jntp>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <f8ece962-1234-4a5b-86dd-feaa35dd70d9n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
Injection-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 20:25:44 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3163
 by: Stan Fultoni - Sun, 15 May 2022 20:25 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:08:22 PM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
> > You are flagrantly lying, because in one sentence you admit that for a clock
> > going from xi,ti to event xj,tj the elapsed proper time is taui - tauj =
> > sqrt[(tj-ti)^2 - (xj-xi)^2], and in the next sentence you deny it. That is lying.
>
> But no ! I said your equation was correct.

You are lying again. First you said it was correct, then incorrect, then correct, then incorrect... and so on.

> That she was good in the first case, and the third case.
> But that the second case posed a problem.

That is insane. Consider a fourth event e4 on the same accelerating path, when the clock's proper time is tau4. We have the three relations

.. . tau3 - tau2 = sqrt[(t3-t2)^2 - (x3-x2)^2]
.. . tau4 - tau3 = sqrt[(t4-t3)^2 - (x4-x3)^2]
.. . tau4 - tau2 = sqrt[(t4-t2)^2 - (x4-x2)^2]

Which of these do you say is correct, and which do you say is incorrect?

> I don't see why you say I contradict myself.
> I say the equation is correct. EXCEPT in the case of the second line.

Again, that is insane. The three equations are identical in form, differing only in the indices, which are arbitrary labels. There is no rational justification for saying the equation is valid with one set of labels, like i=1, j=2, but not valid with another set of labels, such as i=2, j=3.. We can name the events anything we like.

Answer the question above: Which of those three equations do you claim is correct, and which are incorrect?

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<fVRZhJCxrVn-pEvhKackMKo5cWs@jntp>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90324&group=sci.physics.relativity#90324

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!pasdenom.info!from-devjntp
Message-ID: <fVRZhJCxrVn-pEvhKackMKo5cWs@jntp>
JNTP-Route: news2.nemoweb.net
JNTP-DataType: Article
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>
<by5dofDsvOvqBHbEs8QUiJK_9nY@jntp> <713838ef-b807-4542-8334-2f8876eb9119n@googlegroups.com>
<nlMlJ61vGvGEcs4pRi_rcBw43oo@jntp> <f3f0f255-e894-409e-9a2e-bb5cb58c389an@googlegroups.com>
<emzhjcwHKEzqKhKftjPzI4YJsSk@jntp> <b5ec9fe8-88d8-41a9-92d1-ce9d8a685dd9n@googlegroups.com>
<RCVxC4Lhaq1iNqzI7Zjr5LiEyBo@jntp> <f8ece962-1234-4a5b-86dd-feaa35dd70d9n@googlegroups.com>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
JNTP-HashClient: 248XX6AmOdyjCUjVWpamX3S_NQk
JNTP-ThreadID: W0cJ6f7rXvgffeoP7IP3sc6mF2I
JNTP-Uri: http://news2.nemoweb.net/?DataID=fVRZhJCxrVn-pEvhKackMKo5cWs@jntp
User-Agent: Nemo/0.999a
JNTP-OriginServer: news2.nemoweb.net
Date: Sun, 15 May 22 21:36:11 +0000
Organization: Nemoweb
JNTP-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/101.0.4951.54 Safari/537.36
Injection-Info: news2.nemoweb.net; posting-host="314bd3f8e92196ce7e6a5ac25bb2618076139bd1"; logging-data="2022-05-15T21:36:11Z/6901976"; posting-account="4@news2.nemoweb.net"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@news2.nemoweb.net"
JNTP-ProtocolVersion: 0.21.1
JNTP-Server: PhpNemoServer/0.94.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-JNTP-JsonNewsGateway: 0.96
From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Sun, 15 May 2022 21:36 UTC

Le 15/05/2022 à 22:25, Stan Fultoni a écrit :

> . . tau2 - tau1 = sqrt[(t2-t1)^2 - (x2-x1)^2]
Correct
> . . tau3 - tau2 = sqrt[(t3-t2)^2 - (x3-x2)^2]
Incorrect
> . . tau3 - tau1 = sqrt[(t3-t1)^2 - (x3-x1)^2]
Correct
> . . tau4 - tau3 = sqrt[(t4-t3)^2 - (x4-x3)^2]
Incorrect
> . . tau4 - tau2 = sqrt[(t4-t2)^2 - (x4-x2)^2]
Incorrect
> . . tau4 - tau1 = sqrt[(t4-t1)^2 - (x4-x1)^2]
Correct
> Which of these do you say is correct, and which do you say is incorrect?

Easy.

R.H.

Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste

<587c449a-0dc1-4c3f-808d-2f7bccbde2adn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90326&group=sci.physics.relativity#90326

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1351:b0:2f3:b1e4:9d2e with SMTP id w17-20020a05622a135100b002f3b1e49d2emr13132794qtk.412.1652652293050;
Sun, 15 May 2022 15:04:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a37:f518:0:b0:680:a811:1ef7 with SMTP id
l24-20020a37f518000000b00680a8111ef7mr10299650qkk.765.1652652292883; Sun, 15
May 2022 15:04:52 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 15:04:52 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <fVRZhJCxrVn-pEvhKackMKo5cWs@jntp>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:601:1700:7df0:adc6:c9ee:a437:f3eb;
posting-account=mPYpNwoAAADYT6u25jo4wRqpXbzZAAhf
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:601:1700:7df0:adc6:c9ee:a437:f3eb
References: <F02wWoCvXSZgbE1xOKLrTwgp_uM@jntp> <4dbfb630-6e8b-45ff-8a39-f84eaddc1a83n@googlegroups.com>
<by5dofDsvOvqBHbEs8QUiJK_9nY@jntp> <713838ef-b807-4542-8334-2f8876eb9119n@googlegroups.com>
<nlMlJ61vGvGEcs4pRi_rcBw43oo@jntp> <f3f0f255-e894-409e-9a2e-bb5cb58c389an@googlegroups.com>
<emzhjcwHKEzqKhKftjPzI4YJsSk@jntp> <b5ec9fe8-88d8-41a9-92d1-ce9d8a685dd9n@googlegroups.com>
<RCVxC4Lhaq1iNqzI7Zjr5LiEyBo@jntp> <f8ece962-1234-4a5b-86dd-feaa35dd70d9n@googlegroups.com>
<fVRZhJCxrVn-pEvhKackMKo5cWs@jntp>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <587c449a-0dc1-4c3f-808d-2f7bccbde2adn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SR] Trouver le mot juste
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
Injection-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 22:04:53 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2935
 by: Stan Fultoni - Sun, 15 May 2022 22:04 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 2:36:13 PM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
> > Which of the following are correct, and which are incorrect:
>
> . . tau3 - tau2 = sqrt[(t3-t2)^2 - (x3-x2)^2] ... Incorrect
> . . tau4 - tau3 = sqrt[(t4-t3)^2 - (x4-x3)^2] ... Incorrect
> . . tau4 - tau2 = sqrt[(t4-t2)^2 - (x4-x2)^2] ... Incorrect

You contradict yourself, because we can shift the labels of the events, so instead of labeling these events with indices 2,3,4 we are going to label them with indices 1,2,3, so what you have claimed is

.. . tau2 - tau1 = sqrt[(t2-t1)^2 - (x2-x1)^2] ... Incorrect
.. . tau3 - tau2 = sqrt[(t3-t2)^2 - (x3-x2)^2] ... Incorrect
.. . tau3 - tau1 = sqrt[(t3-t1)^2 - (x3-x1)^2] ... Incorrect

But this contradicts your previous claim that the first and third are correct. Do you understand now why your claims are self-contradictory and insane? To help you understand, consider another event e0, and tell me which of the following are correct, and which are incorrect?

.. . tau1 - tau0 = sqrt[(t1-t0)^2 - (x1-x0)^2] ... ?
.. . tau2 - tau1 = sqrt[(t2-t1)^2 - (x2-x1)^2] ... ?
.. . tau2 - tau0 = sqrt[(t2-t0)^2 - (x2-x0)^2] ... ?

Do you see now that your beliefs are incoherent and insane?

Pages:12
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor