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tech / sci.physics.relativity / Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

SubjectAuthor
* How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
+* Cretin Pat Dolan fails basic algebraDono.
|+* Re: Cretin Pat Dolan fails basic algebrapatdolan
||`* Re: Cretin Pat Dolan fails basic algebraDono.
|| `* Re: Cretin Pat Dolan fails basic algebrapatdolan
||  `- Re: Cretin Pat Dolan fails basic algebraDono.
|`* Re: Cretin Pat Dolan fails basic algebraRichard Hertz
| `- Re: Cretin Pat Dolan fails basic algebra and fellow crank Dick HertzDono.
+- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
+* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
|`* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
| `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
|  `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   `- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
+* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|+- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|`* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
| `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|  `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   +* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
|   |+* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||+* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
|   |||`* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||| +* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
|   ||| |`- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneMaciej Wozniak
|   ||| `* Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraDono.
|   |||  `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||   `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||    +* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |`* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||    | `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |  `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||    |   +* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraDono.
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraDono.
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||    |   |+* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |   ||+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraPython
|   |||    |   ||`- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraMaciej Wozniak
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraDono.
|   |||    |   |+- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    |   |`- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraDono.
|   |||    |   `- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||    `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     +* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||     |`* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     | +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     | `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||     |  `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||     |   +- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraStan Fultoni
|   |||     |   `- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     +* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||     |`* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrapatdolan
|   |||     | `- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebrarotchm
|   |||     `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraPaul B. Andersen
|   |||      `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraRichard Hachel
|   |||       `* Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraPaul B. Andersen
|   |||        `- Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebraRichard Hachel
|   ||`* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   || `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||  +* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onerotchm
|   ||  |`- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||  `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   ||   `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||    `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   ||     `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||      `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   ||       `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||        `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   ||         `* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||          +* Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingrotchm
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingPaul Alsing
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingrotchm
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          |+- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingpatdolan
|   ||          |`- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingDono.
|   ||          +- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   ||          +- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||          +- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   ||          +- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   ||          +- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneStan Fultoni
|   ||          +* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part OneTom Roberts
|   ||          +- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingStan Fultoni
|   ||          +- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingStan Fultoni
|   ||          +- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingStan Fultoni
|   ||          +- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingStan Fultoni
|   ||          +- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingStan Fultoni
|   ||          `- Re: Crank Pat Dolan keeps on trollingStan Fultoni
|   |`- Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan
|   `- Cretin Pat Dolan keeps trollingDono.
`* Re: How to Write a Transformation--Part Onepatdolan

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Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

<185b550d-bcb6-4fc3-b01b-55c59145b7den@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Mon, 16 May 2022 00:47 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:37:21 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:10:17 PM UTC-7, Stan Fultoni wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 4:46:38 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > > Can you derive the string v = v' ?
> >
> > The trivial derivation has been presented to you many times, in many different forms. Again, it's grade school algebra to show that the first two equations imply
> > x = g( v )[ x' + vt' ]
> > t = g( v )[ t' + vx'/c^2 ]
> > so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v'). From the first of these we have v' = +-v, and from the second we have that their signs are the same, so v'=v. What part of this do you think is wrong or unclear?
> Stan, you are hopeless. Nothing penetrates your thick skull. You probably don't even know that your argument is v = v' if and only if v = v'.
>
> What is it about proofing that you just can't understand?
Here's a challenge for you Stan. Let's suppose you have proved v = v' in your post above. Can you now cast those sentences in English where you make your proof into wellformed strings of algebra? I say you are incapable of that sort of ratiocination.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
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 by: Stan Fultoni - Mon, 16 May 2022 00:47 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:37:21 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > > Can you derive the string v = v' ?
> >
> > Your first two equations imply
> > x = g( v )[ x' + vt' ]
> > t = g( v )[ t' + vx'/c^2 ]
> > so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v'). From the first of these we have v' = +-v, and from the second we have that their signs are the same, so v'=v.
>
> Your argument is v = v' if and only if v = v'.

No, the argument does not pre-suppose that v' = v, it is based purely on the four posited equations. The first two equations trivially imply x = g(v)[ x' + vt' ] and t = g(v)[ t' + vx'/c^2 ], so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v'). From the first of these we have v' = +-v, and from the second we have that their signs are the same, so v'=v. Honestly, if there's something about this that you think is unclear, just ask.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Mon, 16 May 2022 00:55 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:47:22 PM UTC-7, Stan Fultoni wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:37:21 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > > > Can you derive the string v = v' ?
> > >
> > > Your first two equations imply
> > > x = g( v )[ x' + vt' ]
> > > t = g( v )[ t' + vx'/c^2 ]
> > > so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v'). From the first of these we have v' = +-v, and from the second we have that their signs are the same, so v'=v.
> >
> > Your argument is v = v' if and only if v = v'.
>
> No, the argument does not pre-suppose that v' = v, it is based purely on the four posited equations. The first two equations trivially imply x = g(v)[ x' + vt' ] and t = g(v)[ t' + vx'/c^2 ], so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v'). From the first of these we have v' = +-v, and from the second we have that their signs are the same, so v'=v. Honestly, if there's something about this that you think is unclear, just ask.

Okay Stan, I'll ask. You want me to ask you if your argument is unclear. Your argument is completely unclear. It will be crystal clear if you cast the above paragraph in English into well formed strings of algebra. I'm asking you to do this. Are you going to welch on your pledge to be clear?

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
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 by: Stan Fultoni - Mon, 16 May 2022 01:18 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:55:56 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > The first two equations trivially imply x = g(v)[ x' + vt' ] and t = g(v)[ t' + vx'/c^2 ], so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v'). From the first of these we have v' = +-v, and from the second we have that their signs are the same, so v'=v.
>
> [Please] cast the above paragraph in English into well formed strings of algebra.

I'll be happy to. It would help if you could narrow down what step in that two-sentence proof you dispute. Let's take tiny
baby steps. Here's the first clause of the first sentence:

"The first two equations trivially imply x = g(v)[x'+ vt'] and t = g(v)[t' + vx'/c^2]..."

Do you dispute this? It is grade school algebra, and I don't want to insult your intelligence by spoon feeding it to you unless you tell me that you genuinely dispute this simple algebraic fact. (Note that you have previously insisted that you were well aware of this algebraic inverse.)

The next clause is:

> ...so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if
> g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v').

Given the previous clause, do you dispute this clause...? If so, I'll be happy to explain this trivial fact more fully.

The concluding sentence begins with:

> From the first of these we have v' = +-v...

Do you dispute this...? If so, I'll be happy to explain explicitly how this trivial fact follows.

Lastly, the sentence concludes with

> and from the second we have that their signs are the same, so v'=v.

Do you dispute this...? If so, I'll be happy to explain this trivial fact more fully.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Mon, 16 May 2022 01:30 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:18:57 PM UTC-7, Stan Fultoni wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:55:56 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > > The first two equations trivially imply x = g(v)[ x' + vt' ] and t = g(v)[ t' + vx'/c^2 ], so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v'). From the first of these we have v' = +-v, and from the second we have that their signs are the same, so v'=v.
> >
> > [Please] cast the above paragraph in English into well formed strings of algebra.
>
> I'll be happy to. It would help if you could narrow down what step in that two-sentence proof you dispute. Let's take tiny
> baby steps. Here's the first clause of the first sentence:
>
> "The first two equations trivially imply x = g(v)[x'+ vt'] and t = g(v)[t' + vx'/c^2]..."
>
> Do you dispute this? It is grade school algebra, and I don't want to insult your intelligence by spoon feeding it to you unless you tell me that you genuinely dispute this simple algebraic fact. (Note that you have previously insisted that you were well aware of this algebraic inverse.)
>
> The next clause is:
>
> > ...so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if
> > g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v').
> Given the previous clause, do you dispute this clause...? If so, I'll be happy to explain this trivial fact more fully.
>
> The concluding sentence begins with:
>
> > From the first of these we have v' = +-v...
>
> Do you dispute this...? If so, I'll be happy to explain explicitly how this trivial fact follows.
>
> Lastly, the sentence concludes with
> > and from the second we have that their signs are the same, so v'=v.
> Do you dispute this...? If so, I'll be happy to explain this trivial fact more fully.
Ha! I have found the key to Stan. He can't write proofs in the precise language of mathematics. Which is tantamount to saying he can't prove anything to anyone but himself.

Stan, excuse me if I decline to read your midrashing on things you previously written. YOU CANT PROVE STUFF. That's an end to it.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: rot...@gmail.com (rotchm)
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 by: rotchm - Mon, 16 May 2022 01:35 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 9:30:12 PM UTC-4, patdolan wrote:

> Ha! I have found the key to Stan. He can't write proofs in the precise language of mathematics.
> Which is tantamount to saying he can't prove anything to anyone but himself.

That's a lie on your part. I fully follow what he says and I accept his proof/argument too.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
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 by: Stan Fultoni - Mon, 16 May 2022 01:39 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:30:12 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > > > The first two equations trivially imply x = g(v)[ x' + vt' ] and t = g(v)[ t' + vx'/c^2 ], so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v'). From the first of these we have v' = +-v, and from the second we have that their signs are the same, so v'=v.
> > >
> > > [Please] cast the above paragraph in English into well formed strings of algebra.
> >
> > I'll be happy to. It would help if you could narrow down what step in that two-sentence proof you dispute. Let's take tiny
> > baby steps. Here's the first clause of the first sentence:
> >
> > "The first two equations trivially imply x = g(v)[x'+ vt'] and t = g(v)[t' + vx'/c^2]..."
> >
> > Do you dispute this? It is grade school algebra, and I don't want to insult your intelligence by spoon feeding it to you unless you tell me that you genuinely dispute this simple algebraic fact. (Note that you have previously insisted that you were well aware of this algebraic inverse.)
> >
> > The next clause is:
> >
> > > ...so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if
> > > g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v').
> > Given the previous clause, do you dispute this clause...? If so, I'll be happy to explain this trivial fact more fully.
> >
> > The concluding sentence begins with:
> >
> > > From the first of these we have v' = +-v...
> >
> > Do you dispute this...? If so, I'll be happy to explain explicitly how this trivial fact follows.
> >
> > Lastly, the sentence concludes with
> > > and from the second we have that their signs are the same, so v'=v.
> > Do you dispute this...? If so, I'll be happy to explain this trivial fact more fully.
>
> [You] can't write proofs in the precise language of mathematics.

Which part of the proof do you think is imprecise, or wrong, or even unclear? Do you dispute that you first two equations trivially imply x = g(v)[x'+ vt'] and t = g(v)[t' + vx'/c^2] ? Do you need to be shown (yet again) the simple algebraic steps?

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Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 18:41:07 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Mon, 16 May 2022 01:41 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:30:12 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:18:57 PM UTC-7, Stan Fultoni wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:55:56 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > > > The first two equations trivially imply x = g(v)[ x' + vt' ] and t = g(v)[ t' + vx'/c^2 ], so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v'). From the first of these we have v' = +-v, and from the second we have that their signs are the same, so v'=v.
> > >
> > > [Please] cast the above paragraph in English into well formed strings of algebra.
> >
> > I'll be happy to. It would help if you could narrow down what step in that two-sentence proof you dispute. Let's take tiny
> > baby steps. Here's the first clause of the first sentence:
> >
> > "The first two equations trivially imply x = g(v)[x'+ vt'] and t = g(v)[t' + vx'/c^2]..."
> >
> > Do you dispute this? It is grade school algebra, and I don't want to insult your intelligence by spoon feeding it to you unless you tell me that you genuinely dispute this simple algebraic fact. (Note that you have previously insisted that you were well aware of this algebraic inverse.)
> >
> > The next clause is:
> >
> > > ...so your second two equations are true for arbitrary t and x if and only if
> > > g(v)=g(v') and vg(v)=v'g(v').
> > Given the previous clause, do you dispute this clause...? If so, I'll be happy to explain this trivial fact more fully.
> >
> > The concluding sentence begins with:
> >
> > > From the first of these we have v' = +-v...
> >
> > Do you dispute this...? If so, I'll be happy to explain explicitly how this trivial fact follows.
> >
> > Lastly, the sentence concludes with
> > > and from the second we have that their signs are the same, so v'=v.
> > Do you dispute this...? If so, I'll be happy to explain this trivial fact more fully.
> Ha! I have found the key to Stan. He can't write proofs in the precise language of mathematics. Which is tantamount to saying he can't prove anything to anyone but himself.
>
> Stan, excuse me if I decline to read your midrashing on things you previously written. YOU CANT PROVE STUFF. That's an end to it.
Watch me do a proper proof Stan. I'm going to prove that v = v' for the Galilean transforms.

Premise:
x' = x - vt
x = x' + v't'
t = t'
Proof:
x' + x = x' + x - vt + v't'
0 = - vt + v't'
0 = - vt + v't
vt = v't
v = v'

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: rot...@gmail.com (rotchm)
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 by: rotchm - Mon, 16 May 2022 01:45 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 7:46:38 PM UTC-4, patdolan wrote:

> If we assume the doubter's point of view, our starting point now becomes
>
> S -> S' transforms
> x' = g(v)[ x - vt ]
> t' = g(v)[ t-vx/c^2 ]
>
> S' -> S transforms
> x = g(v')[ x' + v't' ]
> x = g(v')[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]
>
> Now from this new starting point can you derive the string v = v' ?

Given the first two equations, you want the show that v = v'.
There are many ways to show this. I have shown you one way, and you agreed to it.

Another way to show it, is, suppose that v<> v' and arrive at a contradiction.
But doing it that way is quite redundant since it utilizes the four equations and "a lot" of algebra.
Whereas, the first way (mine) use it only the first two equations and less algebra.

Or: my way implies v = v' (as you agreed).
Now, suppose that v <> v' as you request. Since this latter contradicts the conclusion v=v', thus
the assumption v <> v' is wrong; are proof by contradiction is done!

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
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 by: Stan Fultoni - Mon, 16 May 2022 01:56 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:41:08 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> Premise:
> x' = x - vt
> x = x' + v't'
> t = t'
> Proof:
> x' + x = x' + x - vt + v't'
> 0 = - vt + v't'
> 0 = - vt + v't
> vt = v't
> v = v'

To be consistent, your premise is the two pairs of equations

x'=x-vt
t'=t

x=x'+v't'
t=t'

and you want to convince yourself (because for some unfathomable reason it isn't self-evident to you) that v'=v.

Proof: The first two equations algebraically imply x=x'+vt' and t=t', so the second two equations are true for arbitrary x and t if and only if v'=v. QED

You see? It's the same proof. In general if you have X'=M[v]X and X=M[v']X' where M is any linear transformation matrix (Lorentz, Galilean, whatever), then X = M[v'](M[[v]X) = (M[v']M[v])X and so M[v']M[v]=I and hence M[v'] = M[v]^-1 = M[-v].

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Mon, 16 May 2022 02:07 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:45:22 PM UTC-7, rotchm wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 7:46:38 PM UTC-4, patdolan wrote:
>
> > If we assume the doubter's point of view, our starting point now becomes
> >
> > S -> S' transforms
> > x' = g(v)[ x - vt ]
> > t' = g(v)[ t-vx/c^2 ]
> >
> > S' -> S transforms
> > x = g(v')[ x' + v't' ]
> > x = g(v')[ t' + v'x'/c^2 ]
> >
> > Now from this new starting point can you derive the string v = v' ?
> Given the first two equations, you want the show that v = v'.
No! No! No!

Given ALL FOUR equations, show that v = v'. To only take the first two as given is to put no constrain on v'. Stan just doesn't get this and therefor gets confused. Learning to prove things with equations eliminates the confusion that comes with trying to reason out mathematical propositions using English.

You point out that this will need "a lot" of algebra. I go further and state that even an infinite amount of algebra can not prove the v = v'. Don't believe me? Then do it.

> There are many ways to show this. I have shown you one way, and you agreed to it.
>
> Another way to show it, is, suppose that v<> v' and arrive at a contradiction.
> But doing it that way is quite redundant since it utilizes the four equations and "a lot" of algebra.
> Whereas, the first way (mine) use it only the first two equations and less algebra.
>
> Or: my way implies v = v' (as you agreed).
> Now, suppose that v <> v' as you request. Since this latter contradicts the conclusion v=v', thus
> the assumption v <> v' is wrong; are proof by contradiction is done!

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Mon, 16 May 2022 02:11 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:56:07 PM UTC-7, Stan Fultoni wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:41:08 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > Premise:
> > x' = x - vt
> > x = x' + v't'
> > t = t'
> > Proof:
> > x' + x = x' + x - vt + v't'
> > 0 = - vt + v't'
> > 0 = - vt + v't
> > vt = v't
> > v = v'
> To be consistent, your premise is the two pairs of equations
>
> x'=x-vt
> t'=t
>
> x=x'+v't'
> t=t'
>
> and you want to convince yourself (because for some unfathomable reason it isn't self-evident to you) that v'=v.
>
> Proof: The first two equations algebraically imply x=x'+vt' and t=t', so the second two equations are true for arbitrary x and t if and only if v'=v. QED

This is not a proof. It is a proposition. Now you need to prove it. Prove your "Proof:" I dare you. Words won't help you here.

Same with v = v' in the LTs
>
> You see? It's the same proof. In general if you have X'=M[v]X and X=M[v']X' where M is any linear transformation matrix (Lorentz, Galilean, whatever), then X = M[v'](M[[v]X) = (M[v']M[v])X and so M[v']M[v]=I and hence M[v'] = M[v]^-1 = M[-v].

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: rot...@gmail.com (rotchm)
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 by: rotchm - Mon, 16 May 2022 02:35 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 10:07:59 PM UTC-4, patdolan wrote:

> No! No! No!

Yes yes yes!

> Given ALL FOUR equations, show that v = v'.

The first two imply the two others. It also implies that v = v'.

> To only take the first two as given is to put no constrain on v'.

Exactly. We do not want any constraint on v'. You want to find all it's possible values.
And we find that the only possible one is v=v'.

> You point out that this will need "a lot" of algebra.

No I did not. You do not know how to read or you're delusional or just a liar... And these are not exclusive or's.

> I go further and state that even an infinite
> amount of algebra can not prove the v = v'. Don't believe me? Then do it.

I did in finite steps, and you agreed to my proof. Google kept their record.
And then you diverted from the conversation.
Google kept a record of that too.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
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 by: Stan Fultoni - Mon, 16 May 2022 02:35 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 7:11:27 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > > Premise:
> > > x' = x - vt
> > > x = x' + v't'
> > > t = t'
> > > Proof:
> > > x' + x = x' + x - vt + v't'
> > > 0 = - vt + v't'
> > > 0 = - vt + v't
> > > vt = v't
> > > v = v'
> > To be consistent, your premise is the two pairs of equations
> >
> > x'=x-vt
> > t'=t
> >
> > x=x'+v't'
> > t=t'
> >
> > and you want to convince yourself (because for some unfathomable reason it isn't self-evident to you) that v'=v.
> >
> > Proof: The first two equations algebraically imply x=x'+vt' and t=t', so the second two equations are true for arbitrary x and t if and only if v'=v. QED
>
> This is not a proof.

It is a proof. I asked if any of the steps seemed wrong or unclear to you, and you were unable to point to any, so the proof stands unchallenged. Do you dispute any of the steps? If so, which one(s)?

It's the same proof, regardless of the linear transformation. In general if you have X'=M[v]X and X=M[v']X' where M is any linear transformation matrix (Lorentzian, Galilean, whatever), then X = M[v'](M[[v]X) = (M[v']M[v])X and so M[v']M[v]=I and hence M[v'] = M[v]^-1 = M[-v].

It's obvious that your fundamental problem is you don't know how to algebraically handle two linear equations in two unknowns. The Galilean transformation happens to be degenerate, so you don't need to handle two simultaneous equations. This seems to be your mental block, and you are too proud to ask for help.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: rot...@gmail.com (rotchm)
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 by: rotchm - Mon, 16 May 2022 02:36 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 10:11:27 PM UTC-4, patdolan wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:56:07 PM UTC-7, Stan Fultoni wrote:

> This is not a proof.

Yes it is.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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From: paul.b.a...@paulba.no (Paul B. Andersen)
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 by: Paul B. Andersen - Mon, 16 May 2022 11:35 UTC

Den 16.05.2022 01:46, skrev patdolan:
>
> What we are doing in this exercise just for fun is assuming that a relativity doubter has claimed that the Lorentz transforms are incorrectly written and that the same velocity value v cannot be use in the following transformations:
>
> S -> S' transforms
> x' = g(v)[ x - vt ]
> t' = g(v)[ t-vx/c^2 ]

g, v and c are constants:
x' = f1(x,t)
t' = f2(x,t)

Let's find the inverse transform by solving these two
equations with respect to x and t:

On matrix form the equations are:

|x'| = | g -gv| |x|
|t'| |-gv/c² g | |t|

| g -gv|⁻1 = |g gv|
|-gv/c² g | |gv/c² g |

Note that the value of the matrix is = 1/g²(1 − v²/c²) = 1

|x| = |g gv| |x'|
|t| |gv/c² g | |t'|

x = gx' + gvt
t = (gv/c²)x' + gt'

So the S' -> S transforms is:
x = g(v)[ x' + vt' ]
t = g(v)[ t' + vx/c^2 ]

S -> S' and S' -> S is the same transform.
It is but one v in this transform, and it won't
change value if you rename it.

Your 'doubter' must be pretty stupid if he thinks so.

--
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Mon, 16 May 2022 14:19 UTC

Le 16/05/2022 à 13:35, "Paul B. Andersen" a écrit :
>
>
> Den 16.05.2022 01:46, skrev patdolan:
>>
>> What we are doing in this exercise just for fun is assuming that a relativity
>> doubter has claimed that the Lorentz transforms are incorrectly written and that
>> the same velocity value v cannot be use in the following transformations:
>>
>> S -> S' transforms
>> x' = g(v)[ x - vt ]
>> t' = g(v)[ t-vx/c^2 ]
>
> g, v and c are constants:
> x' = f1(x,t)
> t' = f2(x,t)
>
> Let's find the inverse transform by solving these two
> equations with respect to x and t:
>
> On matrix form the equations are:
>
> |x'| = | g -gv| |x|
> |t'| |-gv/c² g | |t|
>
> | g -gv|⁻1 = |g gv|
> |-gv/c² g | |gv/c² g |
>
> Note that the value of the matrix is = 1/g²(1 − v²/c²) = 1
>
> |x| = |g gv| |x'|
> |t| |gv/c² g | |t'|
>
> x = gx' + gvt
> t = (gv/c²)x' + gt'
>
> So the S' -> S transforms is:
> x = g(v)[ x' + vt' ]
> t = g(v)[ t' + vx/c^2 ]
>
> S -> S' and S' -> S is the same transform.
> It is but one v in this transform, and it won't
> change value if you rename it.
>
> Your 'doubter' must be pretty stupid if he thinks so.

My personal transformations are the same as those of Lorentz.

These transformations are obviously valid.

But we must not forget one thing that I repeat tirelessly: "The theory of
relativity is mathematically very simple, it does not go further than
square roots, sines and cosines, as we do in college, and possibly a small
integration as we can do in high school, but it's full of little traps."

Here are the transformations:
x'=(x-Vo.To)/sqrt(1-Vo²/c²)
y'=y
z'=z
To'=(To-x.Vo/c²)/sqrt(1-Vo²/c²)

But beware!

Already, here, a trap awaits.

To is negative.

Example:
Vo=0.8c

E(R)=(12,9,0,-15)
E(R')=(40,9,0,-41)

You must not make a sign error.

There are also many other pitfalls which I have already discussed, among
the laughter of dark morons or real lazy people, unable to come and check
whether what I say is true or not.

Good day to you.

R.H.

--
"Mais ne nous trompons pas.
Il n'y a pas que de la violence avec des armes : il y a des situations de
violence."
Abbé Pierre.
<http://news2.nemoweb.net/?DataID=D5_80cuj25OJY6Z--RQSp05PMHQ@jntp>

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: fultonis...@gmail.com (Stan Fultoni)
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 by: Stan Fultoni - Mon, 16 May 2022 19:04 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 7:11:27 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> This...

There's an amusing side note to this discussion. What the OP is presumably wanting (even though he can't articulate this desire, for obvious reasons) is a univariate derivation at a particular event x,t, rather than a transformation that applies at all events. This would conform with his desire to see a sequence of equations leading to v'=v. Indeed this type of derivation has been shown to him (he naturally ignored it), by imposing the equalities x(v)=x(v') and t(v) =t(v'). When we do this, we square both sides to clear the square roots of "gamma", and arrive at a quadratic that has the two solutions v'=v and v'=-(vt'^2+2t'x'+vx'^2) / (t'^2+2t'x'v+x'^2). Now, a silly person might imagine that this second root is an alternate solution, meaning that at any particular event x,t, the transformation has a non-unique inverse, but of course this is not true, and this is the amusing part:

The fallacy is that this alternate solution doesn't give x(v)=x(v'), but rather x(v)^2 = x(v')^2, and similarly for the time expressions, because we squared the expressions to clear the square roots in "gamma". For every x,t, either the x or the t values have opposite signs, so this doesn't represent an actual solution. For timelike intervals, we have x(v)=-x(v'), and for spacelike intervals we have t(v)=-t(v'). Thus the only valid root is v'=v.

The funny part is that this is exactly the same fallacy that the OP uses to "break arithmetic", i.e., he claims the relation (1)^2 = (-1)^2 implies 1=-1, just as his claim to "break the Lorentz transformation" relies on the claim that the relation [x(v)]^2 = [x(v')]^2 implies x(v)=x(v'). In honor of this, I think that henceforth the misconception that f(a)=f(b) implies a=b should rightly be called the Dolan Fallacy.

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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 by: Paul B. Andersen - Mon, 16 May 2022 19:57 UTC

Den 16.05.2022 16:19, skrev Richard Hachel:
> Le 16/05/2022 à 13:35, "Paul B. Andersen" a écrit :
>>
>>
>> Den 16.05.2022 01:46, skrev patdolan:
>>>
>>> What we are doing in this exercise just for fun is assuming that a
>>> relativity doubter has claimed that the Lorentz transforms are
>>> incorrectly written and that the same velocity value v cannot be use
>>> in the following transformations:
>>>
>>> S -> S' transforms
>>> x' = g(v)[ x - vt ]
>>> t' = g(v)[ t-vx/c^2 ]
>>
>> g, v and c are constants:
>> x' = f1(x,t)
>> t' = f2(x,t)
>>
>> Let's find the inverse transform by solving these two
>> equations with respect to x and t:
>>
>> On matrix form the equations are:
>>
>> |x'| = | g     -gv| |x|
>> |t'|   |-gv/c²  g | |t|
>>
>> | g     -gv|⁻1  = |g     gv|
>> |-gv/c²  g |      |gv/c² g |
>>
>> Note that the value of the matrix is = 1/g²(1 − v²/c²) = 1
>>
>> |x| = |g     gv| |x'|
>> |t|   |gv/c² g | |t'|
>>
>> x = gx' + gvt
>> t = (gv/c²)x' + gt'
>>
>> So the S' -> S transforms is:
>> x = g(v)[ x' + vt' ]
>> t = g(v)[ t' + vx/c^2 ]
>>
>> S -> S' and S' -> S is the same transform.
>> It is but one v in this transform, and it won't
>> change value if you rename it.
>>
>> Your 'doubter' must be pretty stupid if he thinks so.
>
> My personal transformations are the same as those of Lorentz.
>
> These transformations are obviously valid.

So there is nothing more to discuss.

--
Paul

https://paulba.no/

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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Subject: Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra
From: patdo...@comcast.net (patdolan)
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 by: patdolan - Mon, 16 May 2022 20:11 UTC

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 12:04:59 PM UTC-7, Stan Fultoni wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 7:11:27 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > This...
>
> There's an amusing side note to this discussion. What the OP is presumably wanting (even though he can't articulate this desire, for obvious reasons) is a univariate derivation at a particular event x,t, rather than a transformation that applies at all events. This would conform with his desire to see a sequence of equations leading to v'=v. Indeed this type of derivation has been shown to him (he naturally ignored it), by imposing the equalities x(v)=x(v') and t(v) =t(v'). When we do this, we square both sides to clear the square roots of "gamma", and arrive at a quadratic that has the two solutions v'=v and v'=-(vt'^2+2t'x'+vx'^2) / (t'^2+2t'x'v+x'^2). Now, a silly person might imagine that this second root is an alternate solution, meaning that at any particular event x,t, the transformation has a non-unique inverse, but of course this is not true, and this is the amusing part:
>
> The fallacy is that this alternate solution doesn't give x(v)=x(v'), but rather x(v)^2 = x(v')^2, and similarly for the time expressions, because we squared the expressions to clear the square roots in "gamma". For every x,t, either the x or the t values have opposite signs, so this doesn't represent an actual solution. For timelike intervals, we have x(v)=-x(v'), and for spacelike intervals we have t(v)=-t(v'). Thus the only valid root is v'=v.
>
> The funny part is that this is exactly the same fallacy that the OP uses to "break arithmetic", i.e., he claims the relation (1)^2 = (-1)^2 implies 1=-1, just as his claim to "break the Lorentz transformation" relies on the claim that the relation [x(v)]^2 = [x(v')]^2 implies x(v)=x(v'). In honor of this, I think that henceforth the misconception that f(a)=f(b) implies a=b should rightly be called the Dolan Fallacy.
Stan! You ARE Townes Olson.

There is plenty more to discuss...

Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan cannot follow simple algebra

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From: r.hac...@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Mon, 16 May 2022 20:17 UTC

Le 16/05/2022 à 21:57, "Paul B. Andersen" a écrit :

>> My personal transformations are the same as those of Lorentz.
>>
>> These transformations are obviously valid.
>
> So there is nothing more to discuss.

Precisely, if I start slowly, it means that I intend to walk far.

Don't be terrified.

You are not going to die.

You're just going to be a little shaken up.

Stay calm.

R.H.

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