https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 2:09:02 PM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/

Anthony Watts gets paid to push climate change denial propaganda, paid for by the fossil carbon extraction industry.

They've got an obvious interest in persuading people to keep on driving gasoline-powered cars - it's an appreciable chunk of their market - which does lead them to push silly claims about how dangerous electric cars might be.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On a sunny day (Fri, 18 Feb 2022 19:08:51 -0800) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<ion01hdrl7ff2on102gom6lhqanimapctt@4ax.com>:

>
>https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/

That is why I use Lifepo4 type batteries when possible:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery

On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/

It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of
a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there's no known cause of the fire.

On 19/02/2022 03:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/

I didn't get past the first paragraph. Quote "EV battery fires are
chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
burns itself out."

An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That's not enough to melt
steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
combustion is entirely different too.

--

Jeff

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

===========================================
>
> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
>

** Sweet dreams .....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/08/04/tesla-fire/

...... Phil

lørdag den 19. februar 2022 kl. 04.09.02 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
>

I thought you weren't scared of anything?

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:05:06 AM UTC-5, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 03:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >
> > https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
>
> I didn't get past the first paragraph. Quote "EV battery fires are
> chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
> there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
> burns itself out."
>
> An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
> of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
> around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That's not enough to melt
> steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
> which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
> combustion is entirely different too.

Adiabatic flame temperature (constant pressure) of common fuels
Gasoline Air 2138 °C

"Burning gasoline has a temperature above 1500° E (945° C). Therefore, it can heat objects in the fire area above its ignition temperature. To prevent reignition after extinguishment, the agent should be applied for sufficient time to allow hot objects in the fire area to cool below the ignition temperature of the gasoline."

Sounds like a very dangerous fuel to use in passenger cars you carry your children in. Good thing we are getting rid of it. We can keep it in lawnmowers where it's safe.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lawnmower+fire&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjY1uTg-4v2AhXrq3IEHaA_DMIQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=923&bih=497&dpr=1.94

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:17:47 AM UTC-5, boB wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 05:08:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
> <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On a sunny day (Fri, 18 Feb 2022 19:08:51 -0800) it happened
> >jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
> ><ion01hdrl7ff2on10...@4ax.com>:
> >
> >>
> >>https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
> >
> >That is why I use Lifepo4 type batteries when possible:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery
> >
> Yes and even Tesla is starting to usw LiFePo4 in some of their cars.

It has nothing to do with fires. They are cheaper and don't use Cobalt, a material that is not so easy to come by. They still use nickel-cobalt-aluminum in the long range cars because it has a higher energy density. Neither battery chemistry has a problem with fire when compared to the highly dangerous gasoline powered vehicles.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pinto+fires&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjpoPaj_Yv2AhXxoHIEHdZiCGcQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=923&bih=497&dpr=1.94

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 6:37:39 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:17:47 AM UTC-5, boB wrote:
> > On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 05:08:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
> > <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On a sunny day (Fri, 18 Feb 2022 19:08:51 -0800) it happened
> > >jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
> > ><ion01hdrl7ff2on10...@4ax.com>:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
> > >
> > >That is why I use Lifepo4 type batteries when possible:
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery
> > >
> > Yes and even Tesla is starting to usw LiFePo4 in some of their cars.
> It has nothing to do with fires. They are cheaper and don't use Cobalt, a material that is not so easy to come by. They still use nickel-cobalt-aluminum in the long range cars because it has a higher energy density. Neither battery chemistry has a problem with fire when compared to the highly dangerous gasoline powered vehicles.

For gasoline cars, they only keep enough to drive in and out of the ship. For EV, they should use a small main battery for short distance driving and removable modules for long distance. Lithium batteries are safer with lower density.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 21:15:27 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
>
>It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of
>a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there's no known cause of the fire.

Mid-Atlantic? Scared?

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman
<jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 19/02/2022 03:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>
>> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
>
>I didn't get past the first paragraph. Quote "EV battery fires are
>chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
>there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
>burns itself out."
>
>An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
>of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
>around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That's not enough to melt
>steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
>which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
>combustion is entirely different too.

What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and
get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out.

A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don't explode.

It's apparently not prudent to keep big lithium batteries indoors.

Google images for 'tesla fire'. Often there's not much of the car
left.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On 2/18/2022 10:15 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
>
> It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of
> a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there's no known cause of the fire.

<https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/19/europe/greece-ferry-fire-intl/index.html>

(I wonder if something the people ate was the cause of the fire?)

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 10:24:09 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman
> <jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On 19/02/2022 03:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >>
> >> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
> >
> >I didn't get past the first paragraph. Quote "EV battery fires are
> >chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
> >there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
> >burns itself out."
> >
> >An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
> >of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
> >around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That's not enough to melt
> >steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
> >which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
> >combustion is entirely different too.
> What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and
> get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out.
>
> A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don't explode.
>
> It's apparently not prudent to keep big lithium batteries indoors.
>
> Google images for 'tesla fire'. Often there's not much of the car
> left.

Yeah, they have that in common with gasoline fires. A big difference is you can put out a lithium-ion battery fire by spraying water on it. Gasoline floats on water and spreads like... wildfire. You have to use special foams and such. Very hard to put out and very dangerous. Gasoline fires make lithium-ion battery fires look like no big deal in comparison. They also happen much less often, "traditional internal-combustion vehicles experience one fire for every 19 million miles traveled; for Teslas EVs, it's one fire for 205 million miles traveled." That's a factor of over 10 to 1!

We had an accident on the DC beltway with a gasoline fire that was so hot they feared it took the temper out of the bridge girders over it. Gasoline fires are so hot, they heat material above the ignition temperature of gasoline, so even when you put out the fire, it can reignite.

Noooo, gasoline fires are nothing to mess with. Very dangerous and hard to put out. That is what you were saying, right?

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:24:09 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman
> <jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On 19/02/2022 03:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >>
> >> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
> >
> >I didn't get past the first paragraph. Quote "EV battery fires are
> >chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
> >there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
> >burns itself out."
> >
> >An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
> >of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
> >around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That's not enough to melt
> >steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
> >which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
> >combustion is entirely different too.
> What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and
> get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out.
>
> A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don't explode.

Very low power density per pound/kg.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 05:48:34 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

>lørdag den 19. februar 2022 kl. 04.09.02 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
>> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
>>
>
>I thought you weren't scared of anything?

I'm not, but I wouldn't like having my house or my children
incinerated. But I'm interested in electrical things.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:28:49 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

>On 2/18/2022 10:15 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
>>
>> It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of
>> a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there's no known cause of the fire.
>
><https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/19/europe/greece-ferry-fire-intl/index.html>
>
>(I wonder if something the people ate was the cause of the fire?)

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39137893/cargo-ship-fire-fueled-by-ev-batteries/

Sounds expensive. Best thing to do is probably sink the ship.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 07:56:42 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:24:09 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman
>> <jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >On 19/02/2022 03:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
>> >
>> >I didn't get past the first paragraph. Quote "EV battery fires are
>> >chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
>> >there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
>> >burns itself out."
>> >
>> >An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
>> >of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
>> >around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That's not enough to melt
>> >steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
>> >which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
>> >combustion is entirely different too.
>> What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and
>> get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out.
>>
>> A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don't explode.
>
>Very low power density per pound/kg.

And the liquid electrolyte probably cools off small shorts until they
open, before they spread.

Aluminum caps are self-healing. Tantalums detonate.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
>
> It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of
> a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there's no known cause of the fire.

german automotive electrical systems are garbage. Surprised more of the
transports don't catch on fire.

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:57:32 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 07:56:42 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:24:09 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman
> >> <jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 19/02/2022 03:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
> >> >
> >> >I didn't get past the first paragraph. Quote "EV battery fires are
> >> >chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
> >> >there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
> >> >burns itself out."
> >> >
> >> >An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
> >> >of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
> >> >around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That's not enough to melt
> >> >steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
> >> >which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
> >> >combustion is entirely different too.
> >> What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and
> >> get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out.
> >>
> >> A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don't explode.
> >
> >Very low power density per pound/kg.
> And the liquid electrolyte probably cools off small shorts until they
> open, before they spread.

Larkin is a poor thinker. It is the heat that eliminates a small short by "blowing" the fuse. Keep it cool and the short remains.

Lead acid batteries do very much explode. You would need to be very sheltered to not be familiar with that. They both can explode from shorts causing the sulfuric acid electrolyte to boil or from the hydrogen vented mixing with oxygen and exploding when sparked.

https://www.quora.com/What-makes-a-car-s-battery-explode

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 12:17:05 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman
> <jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >On 19/02/2022 03:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >>
> >> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
> >
> >I didn't get past the first paragraph. Quote "EV battery fires are
> >chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
> >there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
> >burns itself out."
> >
> >An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
> >of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
> >around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That's not enough to melt
> >steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
> >which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
> >combustion is entirely different too.
> A lithium battery fire is hot enough to soften steel to the point that
> a steel structure will collapse, even if the steel does not melt.
>
> If this were not true, there would be no blacksmiths, and all iron
> articles would be cast.
>
> For instance at an airport in Norway in January 2020. Here is a
> report on the incident from the Norwegians. The effect of ICE fuels
> is also addressed. This fire is thought to have started in an old
> diesel car, but it could just as well been a Tesla - we have lots of
> examples.
>
> .<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6juEM8UTsc>
>
> "Investigation of a massive fire in a multi-storey car park in Norway"
> - Ragni Fjellgaard Mikalsen, 22 June 2021.

Lol! I like the fact that you show an example of gasoline fires destroying a huge garage to support the idea that lithum-ion battery fires are dangerous. "It could just as well been" lithium batteries!

Most likely there were a few BEVs in that garage. The report you link says they don't know how many vehicles total and they don't know how many BEVs. So not much of a report. They did say the BEVs did not contribute to the fire any more than gasoline cars as reported by the fire fighters.

I think the take away from this is, they need to park the gasoline cars somewhere else so the BEVs are safe from the gasoline fires. Er det ikke sant?

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com Wrote in message:r
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 05:48:34 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:>lørdag den 19. februar 2022 kl. 04.09.02 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:>> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/ >> >>I thought you weren't scared of anything?I'm not, but I wouldn't like having my house or my childrenincinerated. But I'm interested in electrical things.-- I yam what I yam - Popeye

What about 'Hank the Tank'?

Cheers
--

----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 13:35:05 -0500 (EST), Martin Rid
<martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:

>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com Wrote in message:r
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 05:48:34 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:>lørdag den 19. februar 2022 kl. 04.09.02 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:>> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/ >> >>I thought you weren't scared of anything?I'm not, but I wouldn't like having my house or my childrenincinerated. But I'm interested in electrical things.-- I yam what I yam - Popeye
>
>What about 'Hank the Tank'?
>
>Cheers

It would be annoying to have a bear in the kitchen. They make a real
mess. And they smell bad.

South Tahoe seems to get more bears than we do. And the first floor of
our cabin is concrete blocks, which are bug-proof and fire-proof and
bear-proof.

We have a friend in Homewood that had to install electric door mats.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On 2/19/2022 8:56 AM, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:24:09 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman
>> <jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/02/2022 03:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
>>>
>>> I didn't get past the first paragraph. Quote "EV battery fires are
>>> chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
>>> there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
>>> burns itself out."
>>>
>>> An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
>>> of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
>>> around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That's not enough to melt
>>> steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
>>> which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
>>> combustion is entirely different too.
>> What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and
>> get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out.
>>
>> A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don't explode.
>
> Very low power density per pound/kg.

Neighbor's house burned TO THE GROUND (literally, nothing left standing)
because of a fire *started* by a lead-acid battery (electrical short).

Not much "energy" in a single match -- but that won't prevent it
from burning down a forest!

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:54:29 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

>On 2/19/2022 8:56 AM, Ed Lee wrote:
>> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:24:09 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman
>>> <jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 19/02/2022 03:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
>>>>
>>>> I didn't get past the first paragraph. Quote "EV battery fires are
>>>> chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
>>>> there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
>>>> burns itself out."
>>>>
>>>> An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
>>>> of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
>>>> around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That's not enough to melt
>>>> steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
>>>> which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
>>>> combustion is entirely different too.
>>> What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and
>>> get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out.
>>>
>>> A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don't explode.
>>
>> Very low power density per pound/kg.
>
>Neighbor's house burned TO THE GROUND (literally, nothing left standing)
>because of a fire *started* by a lead-acid battery (electrical short).

Did the battery or the shorting wire start the fire? I guess nobody
will ever know.

>
>Not much "energy" in a single match -- but that won't prevent it
>from burning down a forest!

Here in California, all sorts of people and businesses are being held
liable for starting big forest fires, when the real problem is crazy
forest management and insane fuel loads. There will always be ignition
sources.

People should get awards for starting fires. Lots of little fires are
better than a few gigantic ones.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye