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tech / sci.physics.relativity / Re: Annotated version of SRT

SubjectAuthor
* Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
+* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
|+- Re: Annotated version of SRTEvodio Bayon
|`* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| +* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| |`* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | +* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |`* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | | +- Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | | `* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |  `* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |   +* Re: Annotated version of SRTPython
| | |   |+- Re: Annotated version of SRTMaciej Wozniak
| | |   |`* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |   | `- Re: Annotated version of SRTVance Rera
| | |   `* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |    `* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |     `* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |      +* Re: Annotated version of SRTMaciej Wozniak
| | |      |`* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |      | `* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |      |  `- Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |      `* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |       `* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |        +- Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |        +* Re: Annotated version of SRTRichie Cruze
| | |        |`* Re: Annotated version of SRTMichael Moroney
| | |        | `* Re: Annotated version of SRTRichie Cruze
| | |        |  +* Re: Annotated version of SRTMichael Moroney
| | |        |  |`- Re: Annotated version of SRTRichie Cruze
| | |        |  `* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |        |   `* Re: Annotated version of SRTRichie Cruze
| | |        |    `* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |        |     `* Re: Annotated version of SRTElmer Joss
| | |        |      `* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |        |       `* Re: Annotated version of SRTVance Rera
| | |        |        `* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |        |         `* Re: Annotated version of SRTVance Rera
| | |        |          `* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |        |           +* Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-testHagan Koon
| | |        |           |+* Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-testJanPB
| | |        |           ||+- Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-testLamar Main
| | |        |           ||`* Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-testPaul Alsing
| | |        |           || +* Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-testMichael Moroney
| | |        |           || |+- Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-testwhodat
| | |        |           || |`* Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-testJanPB
| | |        |           || | +- Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-testMichael Moroney
| | |        |           || | +- Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-testLamar Main
| | |        |           || | `- Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-testJanPB
| | |        |           || `- Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-testLamar Main
| | |        |           |`* Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-testJanPB
| | |        |           | `- Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-testLamar Main
| | |        |           `- Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |        `* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         +- Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |         +* Re: Annotated version of SRTOdd Bodkin
| | |         |`* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | +* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |         | |`- Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | `* Re: Annotated version of SRTOdd Bodkin
| | |         |  `* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         |   +* Re: Annotated version of SRTMichael Moroney
| | |         |   |`- Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         |   `* Re: Annotated version of SRTOdd Bodkin
| | |         |    `* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         |     `* Re: Annotated version of SRTOdd Bodkin
| | |         |      +* Re: Annotated version of SRTMaciej Wozniak
| | |         |      |`* Re: Annotated version of SRTOdd Bodkin
| | |         |      | `- Re: Annotated version of SRTMaciej Wozniak
| | |         |      `* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         |       `* Re: Annotated version of SRTOdd Bodkin
| | |         |        `- Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         +* Re: Annotated version of SRTMichael Moroney
| | |         |`* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | +- Re: Annotated version of SRTJ. J. Lodder
| | |         | +* Re: Annotated version of SRTOdd Bodkin
| | |         | |+* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | ||+* Re: Annotated version of SRTJ. J. Lodder
| | |         | |||`* Re: Annotated version of SRTMaciej Wozniak
| | |         | ||| `- Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | ||+* Re: Annotated version of SRTOdd Bodkin
| | |         | |||`* Re: Annotated version of SRTMichael Moroney
| | |         | ||| `* Re: Annotated version of SRTOdd Bodkin
| | |         | |||  `* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | |||   +* Re: Annotated version of SRTOdd Bodkin
| | |         | |||   |`- Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | |||   `* Re: Annotated version of SRTMitch Yamaguchi
| | |         | |||    +- Re: Annotated version of SRTthor stoneman
| | |         | |||    `- Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | ||`* Re: Annotated version of SRTMichael Moroney
| | |         | || +* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | || |+* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | || ||`* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |         | || || `* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | || ||  `- Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |         | || |`* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |         | || | `* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | || |  +* Re: Annotated version of SRTJanPB
| | |         | || |  |`* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | || |  | +* Re: Annotated version of SRTMichael Moroney
| | |         | || |  | |`* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | || |  | `- Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | || |  `* Re: Annotated version of SRTPython
| | |         | || `* Re: Annotated version of SRTCoke Hishikawa
| | |         | |`* Re: Annotated version of SRTThomas Heger
| | |         | `- Re: Annotated version of SRTMichael Moroney
| | |         +- Re: Annotated version of SRTPaul B. Andersen
| | |         `- Re: Annotated version of SRTJ. J. Lodder
| | `- Re: Annotated version of SRTMikko
| `* Re: Annotated version of SRTMikko
+- Re: Annotated version of SRTPaparios
+- Re: Annotated version of SRTDono.
`* Re: Annotated version of SRTMichael Moroney

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Re: Annotated version of SRT

<jeouh1Fo7vaU1@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90559&group=sci.physics.relativity#90559

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From: ttt_...@web.de (Thomas Heger)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 09:32:46 +0200
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In-Reply-To: <b2dd15e9-8082-4d39-8e21-bf53409c7067n@googlegroups.com>
 by: Thomas Heger - Fri, 20 May 2022 07:32 UTC

Am 18.05.2022 um 19:02 schrieb JanPB:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:53:05 PM UTC-7, I wrote:
>>
>>> He used partial derivatives, for what there was no
>>> reason, because the other variables (y/eta and z/zeta) were not involved.
>>
>> They were but their values were identically zero, so Einstein
>> didn't include them in the equation.
>
> Sorry, I got carried away by the other part of the derivation. Here the answer
> is that the derivatives wrt y and z are not present because in the first tau
> equation the variable x' is not present in the y and z slots of tau.

x' is not a variable!
x' denotes the location of the mirror at rest in k, but measured in
K-coordinates.

That position is in some distance d from the emitter of the zero spot of
k. This distance was not named 'd', nor even mentioned, but should exist.

Therefore, I assume d would be the name for the disatnce between emitter
and mirror in k. d is arbitrary (because not specified), but assumed as
a constant value, because the mirror is assumed to be at rest in k.

The position of the mirror is moving in K as x', but that does not make
x' a variable.

> That's why in order to calculate dtau/dy and dtau/dz it's necessary to set up
> tau equations with the y and z variables present (that's what setting up the
> mirror in the Y and Z directions does).

What is dtau/dy?

tau is a time measure in k and y a coordinate in K.

So: how do we interpret dtau/dy?

something like: a small variation of the y-coordinate in K is
corresponding to a small variation of the time tau in k?

As that is absurd, we need to aply the other meaning of 'tau' here,
which is a function!

That function is a coordinate transformation between k and K.

The input values of tau are four vectors in k and the output
corresponding four-vectors in K.

To use partial derrivatives was actually correct, because only one
coordinate y was considered.

But Einstein used x', which is NOT a variable of that function.

TH

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<jeov31Fob8dU1@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90561&group=sci.physics.relativity#90561

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From: ttt_...@web.de (Thomas Heger)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 09:42:20 +0200
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 by: Thomas Heger - Fri, 20 May 2022 07:42 UTC

Am 19.05.2022 um 10:42 schrieb Mikko:
> On 2022-05-19 06:57:24 +0000, Thomas Heger said:
>
>> Am 18.05.2022 um 14:54 schrieb Mikko:
>>
>>>> Another prossible interpretation for a coordinate x would be a vector,
>>>> which contains values only in the x-position, while the others contain
>>>> zeros.
>>>
>>> No, that is not a possible interpretation.
>>
>> As I mentioned two possibilities and you certainly exclude only one,
>> you therefore need to say, which one you want to reject.
>
> Obviously the one quoted above.

Now you need to say, what you like to do with the quoted statement from me.

There are two possibilities:

you like to say, that that statement is correct
you like to say, that that statement is incorrect

Most likely you meant the second case and like to reject this statement:

"Another prossible interpretation for a coordinate x would be a vector,
which contains values only in the x-position, while the others contain
zeros."

My own oppinion is actually the opposite and I would regard a coordinate
x from (x,y,z) as a vector (x,0,0).

The problem with numbers is, that a vector is one-dimensional, while
numbers have no dimensions.

Now a coordinate could be seen as one-dimensional line along one axis,
what would fit more to a vector than to a number.

....

TH

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<aaee8a78-6685-4713-819c-e19b30272671n@googlegroups.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90611&group=sci.physics.relativity#90611

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Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
From: film...@gmail.com (JanPB)
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 by: JanPB - Fri, 20 May 2022 22:10 UTC

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 12:17:48 AM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 19.05.2022 um 11:05 schrieb JanPB:
> > On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 11:39:30 PM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
> >> Am 15.05.2022 um 04:29 schrieb JanPB:
> >>>> But apparently you know how to derive Einstein's equation. So, please
> >>>>> let me know, how that works.
> >>> It's written out in the paper. Given the equation (1/2)*(tau_0 + tau_2) = tau_1,
> >>> one differentiates it wrt x' and that yields the equation constraining the
> >>> A and D constants.
> >> Einstein did something VERY nasty:
> >>
> >> he reused the symbol tau for two different things.
> >>
> >> a) One is a time measure called tau
> >>
> >> b) another one is a function called tau.
> >
> > This is standard. Pick any math or physics textbook printed over last 100
> > years and you'll see this sort of thing all over the place.
> Well, no.
> Bad habbits are still bad, even if they are common practice.

This is not a bad habit, it's a very good, clean habit. It's a bit like a simpler
version of the tensor index notation: letter choices reflect the meaning.
But it does require that the reader learns how to write and read this sort of
thing.

> Here we have two different mathematical objects, which cannot be equated.

Wrong.

> At least a discussion would be necessary, why the author thought, that a
> time measure and a coordinate transformation should be equal.

It's not necessary because your assumption is incorrect.

> >> Now he used the time measure tau from a) in the equation (1/2)*(tau_0 +
> >> tau_2) = tau_1
> >>
> >> But he used the function tau in the partial differential equation.
> >>
> >> That tau is a coordinate transformation in form of a function of
> >> four-vectors, which produces transformed four vectors.

> > The conclusion is the same as in the beginning: your annotations
> > are a waste of time. They have nothing to do with mathematics
> > or physics, they are silly fantasies.
> No.
>
> My annotations are getting gradually better, while Einstein's text
> remains crap forever.

It's odd to see this kind of infantile delusion in an adult.

No, your annotations are completely worthless. I wouldn't waste
another minute on this sort of thing if I were you.

Einstein's paper OTOH remains 100% correct forever. And even if a new theory
of everything appears on the scene, Eistein's, Maxwell's, Newton's, etc. theories
will remain with us forever.

--
Jan

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<jerfmhF8g43U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ttt_...@web.de (Thomas Heger)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 08:38:10 +0200
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 by: Thomas Heger - Sat, 21 May 2022 06:38 UTC

Am 21.05.2022 um 00:10 schrieb JanPB:
> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 12:17:48 AM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 19.05.2022 um 11:05 schrieb JanPB:
>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 11:39:30 PM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>> Am 15.05.2022 um 04:29 schrieb JanPB:
>>>>>> But apparently you know how to derive Einstein's equation. So, please
>>>>>>> let me know, how that works.
>>>>> It's written out in the paper. Given the equation (1/2)*(tau_0 + tau_2) = tau_1,
>>>>> one differentiates it wrt x' and that yields the equation constraining the
>>>>> A and D constants.
>>>> Einstein did something VERY nasty:
>>>>
>>>> he reused the symbol tau for two different things.
>>>>
>>>> a) One is a time measure called tau
>>>>
>>>> b) another one is a function called tau.
>>>
>>> This is standard. Pick any math or physics textbook printed over last 100
>>> years and you'll see this sort of thing all over the place.
>> Well, no.
>> Bad habbits are still bad, even if they are common practice.
>
> This is not a bad habit, it's a very good, clean habit. It's a bit like a simpler
> version of the tensor index notation: letter choices reflect the meaning.
> But it does require that the reader learns how to write and read this sort of
> thing.
>
>> Here we have two different mathematical objects, which cannot be equated.
>
> Wrong.

???

In math we have a lot of different objects, that we can use to do
something useful.

But any object belongs to a certain class of objects and you cannot
equate objects from different classes.

One minimal requirement for an equation is, that we have same types of
objects on both sides of the equal-sign.

In physics we have the additional requirement, that we can only equate
expressions, which have the same units.

To drop this requirement would allow to equate 1 mm with a shoe.

>> At least a discussion would be necessary, why the author thought, that a
>> time measure and a coordinate transformation should be equal.
>
> It's not necessary because your assumption is incorrect.
>
>>>> Now he used the time measure tau from a) in the equation (1/2)*(tau_0 +
>>>> tau_2) = tau_1
>>>>
>>>> But he used the function tau in the partial differential equation.
>>>>
>>>> That tau is a coordinate transformation in form of a function of
>>>> four-vectors, which produces transformed four vectors.
>
>>> The conclusion is the same as in the beginning: your annotations
>>> are a waste of time. They have nothing to do with mathematics
>>> or physics, they are silly fantasies.
>> No.
>>
>> My annotations are getting gradually better, while Einstein's text
>> remains crap forever.
>
> It's odd to see this kind of infantile delusion in an adult.

Well, I have a certain method to write a text.

This method incluses several versions, in which I eliminate errors and
enhence the content.

This is kind of 'stepwise refinement', which I regard as a very good
strategy.

I usually start with something rough, which outlines the topic.

Then I add details at random locations.

Then I bring the pieces into a certain order.

Then I eliminate errors and redo the process, but starting from the
previous version.

This is an iterative process, which can produce very good results.

And its only this final product, what really counts, not the
intermediate steps.

> No, your annotations are completely worthless. I wouldn't waste
> another minute on this sort of thing if I were you.
>
> Einstein's paper OTOH remains 100% correct forever. And even if a new theory
> of everything appears on the scene, Eistein's, Maxwell's, Newton's, etc. theories
> will remain with us forever.
>

In my eyes that particular paper was the worst crap ever printed in science.

The overall concept and some parts related to relativity were actually
correct. But the form was not.

In theoretical physics no errors are allowed and no deviation from the
correct form.

TH

Re: Annotated version of SRT

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Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
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 by: Python - Sat, 21 May 2022 16:41 UTC

Thomas Heger wrote:
....
> Well, everybody can make mistakes.
>
> I actually like mistakes, but like to correct these mistakes.

So far here and there you ONLY made mistakes, and never corrected
a single one.

> My annotations are getting gradually better, while Einstein's text
> remains crap forever.

Your annotations are pathetic delusional crap, while Einstein's text
will stay a cornerstone of modern science long after you'll be in
‎Valhalla along your aryan ancestors.

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<87999e00-c007-4b9f-85c0-ecb482be4cf2n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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 by: Maciej Wozniak - Sat, 21 May 2022 18:51 UTC

On Saturday, 21 May 2022 at 18:41:59 UTC+2, Python wrote:
> Thomas Heger wrote:
> ...
> > Well, everybody can make mistakes.
> >
> > I actually like mistakes, but like to correct these mistakes.
> So far here and there you ONLY made mistakes, and never corrected

Oh, stinker Python is opening its muzzle again,
and trying to pretend he knows something.
Tell me, poor stinker, what is your definition of
a "theory" in the terms of Peano arithmetic?
See: if a theorem is going to be a part of a theory,
it has to be formulable in the language of the
theory. Do you get it? Or are you too stupid even for
that, poor stinker?

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<jeu01hFmv1tU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ttt_...@web.de (Thomas Heger)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date: Sun, 22 May 2022 07:29:22 +0200
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 by: Thomas Heger - Sun, 22 May 2022 05:29 UTC

Am 21.05.2022 um 18:41 schrieb Python:
> Thomas Heger wrote:
> ...
>> Well, everybody can make mistakes.
>>
>> I actually like mistakes, but like to correct these mistakes.
>
>
> So far here and there you ONLY made mistakes, and never corrected
> a single one.

I always try to correct my mistakes, but had no incentive to correct
Einstein's mistakes.

My aim was actually, to find out, how Einstein made his mistakes. So I
followed each line of thought and tried to identify, when things started
to go wrong, how and why.

But I made no attempt to replace a faulty item by a correct one, because
that would be the duty of the author, what was Einstein and not me.

But the errors in my own annotations were corrected by me, if possible.

To find out, what these errors were, I maintained discussions like this one.

From these discussions I took valuable hints, which enabled me to
create an updated version.

I wrote about ten versions, which gradually replaced my faults with
something valid and enhanced the arguments. With this my own knowledge
had grown, what was actually the aim of my endeavour.

>> My annotations are getting gradually better, while Einstein's text
>> remains crap forever.
>
> Your annotations are pathetic delusional crap, while Einstein's text
> will stay a cornerstone of modern science long after you'll be in
> ‎Valhalla along your aryan ancestors.

If Einstein's text 'will stay a cornerstone of modern science', than I
had to stay away of that and need to create my own.

TH

Re: Annotated version of SRT

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Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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 by: Maciej Wozniak - Sun, 22 May 2022 06:10 UTC

On Sunday, 22 May 2022 at 07:29:25 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:

> My aim was actually, to find out, how Einstein made his mistakes.

Just like any other mumbling idiot.

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<jf39rfFnajhU1@mid.individual.net>

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Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
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In-Reply-To: <213d6724-e354-49c9-965c-612310caac76n@googlegroups.com>
 by: Thomas Heger - Tue, 24 May 2022 05:47 UTC

Am 19.05.2022 um 19:22 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
> On Thursday, 19 May 2022 at 18:46:51 UTC+2, Python wrote:
>> Maciej Wozniak schwrote:
>>> On Thursday, 19 May 2022 at 16:17:27 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> ...
>>>> If a result depends on the choice of one particular set of units
>>>> it is not a physical result.
>>>
>>> Your bunch of idiotts doesn't have any physical results,
>>> then.
>> "One of the greatest logician Humanity ever had" is not able
>> to understand how a formula like x = g*t^2/2 could match an
>> actual trajectory when expressed in meters, meters by second
>> by second and seconds (for x, g and t) and also when using
>> furlongs, furlongs by days and days. '
>
> Rather, relativistic idiot Python is not able to unserstand it couldn't.
> No surprise from a relativistic idiot. How come? Are relativistic
> idiots really THAT bad? Sure.
>

Relativity is an extremely simple and obvious principle, hence cannot be
questioned seriously.

The question is, which effects relative motion has, not whether or not
relative motion can occur.

I would say, that relative motion has an effect on observations, because
light is fast, but has finite speed.

This finite speed of light causes a delay of received signals and the so
called Doppler effect.

These are 'relativistic' effects, because they are caused by distance
and relative motion.

And since these effects are real and easy to observe, you cannot reject
relativity entirely.

You may eventually reject certain claims, like those from Einstein.

But that would not be a rejection of relativity, but of Einstein's ideas.

TH

Re: Annotated version of SRT

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Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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 by: Maciej Wozniak - Tue, 24 May 2022 06:48 UTC

On Tuesday, 24 May 2022 at 07:47:31 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 19.05.2022 um 19:22 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
> > On Thursday, 19 May 2022 at 18:46:51 UTC+2, Python wrote:
> >> Maciej Wozniak schwrote:
> >>> On Thursday, 19 May 2022 at 16:17:27 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >> ...
> >>>> If a result depends on the choice of one particular set of units
> >>>> it is not a physical result.
> >>>
> >>> Your bunch of idiotts doesn't have any physical results,
> >>> then.
> >> "One of the greatest logician Humanity ever had" is not able
> >> to understand how a formula like x = g*t^2/2 could match an
> >> actual trajectory when expressed in meters, meters by second
> >> by second and seconds (for x, g and t) and also when using
> >> furlongs, furlongs by days and days. '
> >
> > Rather, relativistic idiot Python is not able to unserstand it couldn't.
> > No surprise from a relativistic idiot. How come? Are relativistic
> > idiots really THAT bad? Sure.
> >
> Relativity is an extremely simple and obvious principle, hence cannot be
> questioned seriously.

Sure, an observer in a train is seeing that his train
is immobile and the trees are running around. An
observer on Earth is seeing that Earth is immobile
and Sun is rotating around. You can't question
it seriously, mr Copernicus!!!!

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<jfdnmfFnc4kU1@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=90905&group=sci.physics.relativity#90905

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From: ttt_...@web.de (Thomas Heger)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date: Sat, 28 May 2022 06:45:02 +0200
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 by: Thomas Heger - Sat, 28 May 2022 04:45 UTC

Am 24.05.2022 um 08:48 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:

>>> Rather, relativistic idiot Python is not able to unserstand it couldn't.
>>> No surprise from a relativistic idiot. How come? Are relativistic
>>> idiots really THAT bad? Sure.
>>>
>> Relativity is an extremely simple and obvious principle, hence cannot be
>> questioned seriously.
>
> Sure, an observer in a train is seeing that his train
> is immobile and the trees are running around. An
> observer on Earth is seeing that Earth is immobile
> and Sun is rotating around. You can't question
> it seriously, mr Copernicus!!!!
>

Wrong analogy.

In SRT we have a certain 'backdrop', which is an empty void, where no
gravity exists and objects are floating around.

Best representation would be spaceships in a dark universe, that fly
around and can only measure something they see or what is within their
own ship.

This requires something, I would call 'self-centred perspective'.

This is so for all possible observers: they regard themselves as at rest
and regard all other objects as moving.

Any such observers sees something in respect to the own position. These
objects seen move through kind of space, which is actually the own past
light-cone of the observer.

The relation is mutually, hence the seen objects could also see the
observer, though in a different 'space', because the observer's ships
floats through the past light cone of the observer from that other
postion, if seen from there.

The seen objects do not really walk or run, but fly or float through
space. That's why your analogy was inappropriate.

TH

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<jfj2feFnr5jU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ttt_...@web.de (Thomas Heger)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date: Mon, 30 May 2022 07:19:43 +0200
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 by: Thomas Heger - Mon, 30 May 2022 05:19 UTC

Am 22.05.2022 um 08:10 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
> On Sunday, 22 May 2022 at 07:29:25 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
>
>> My aim was actually, to find out, how Einstein made his mistakes.
>
> Just like any other mumbling idiot.
>

It is not an easy task, if you try to understand errors.

It is easy to identify them, but not, if you try to understand, how
someone came to a wrong conclusion.

I have actually tried to show, that these errors are even wrong, if they
were based on a prerequisite, which was already wrong.

Therefore, absolute wrongness is not enough, because my aim was to show,
that a certain error was additional to the previous one, which made the
prerequisites wrong.

So I had to start with an already wrong assumption and had to show, that
Einstein turned that into something even more wrong.

TH

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<t74luh$ohd$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=91110&group=sci.physics.relativity#91110

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From: mikko.le...@iki.fi (Mikko)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date: Tue, 31 May 2022 12:08:33 +0300
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 by: Mikko - Tue, 31 May 2022 09:08 UTC

On 2022-05-30 05:19:43 +0000, Thomas Heger said:

> Am 22.05.2022 um 08:10 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
>> On Sunday, 22 May 2022 at 07:29:25 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>
>>> My aim was actually, to find out, how Einstein made his mistakes.
>>
>> Just like any other mumbling idiot.
>>
>
> It is not an easy task, if you try to understand errors.
>
> It is easy to identify them,

One might think so but not easy enough for you, as you have made
more wrong than correct identifications.

> but not, if you try to understand, how someone came to a wrong conclusion.

You have no hope in this until you get your identifications right
and until you can understand how that someone came to least some
of the correct conclusions.

Mikko

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<jfods7Foo2jU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ttt_...@web.de (Thomas Heger)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2022 08:05:00 +0200
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 by: Thomas Heger - Wed, 1 Jun 2022 06:05 UTC

Am 31.05.2022 um 11:08 schrieb Mikko:
> On 2022-05-30 05:19:43 +0000, Thomas Heger said:
>
>> Am 22.05.2022 um 08:10 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
>>> On Sunday, 22 May 2022 at 07:29:25 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>
>>>> My aim was actually, to find out, how Einstein made his mistakes.
>>>
>>> Just like any other mumbling idiot.
>>>
>>
>> It is not an easy task, if you try to understand errors.
>>
>> It is easy to identify them,
>
> One might think so but not easy enough for you, as you have made
> more wrong than correct identifications.

I made some errors and some were really stupid. But non of my errors
were discovered in discussions about them (like this one), but by
rewriting my own annotations over and over again.

For instance I wrote, the delay would be x*c, while it is actually x/c.

But non of you 'experts' have criticised this.

Instead of that, I received tons of insults, which had almost no
connection to the text or my critique.

What shall I say???

Don't know, but simply continue and rewrite my annotations and will one
day present a version, which contains no more errors.

>> but not, if you try to understand, how someone came to a wrong
>> conclusion.
>
> You have no hope in this until you get your identifications right
> and until you can understand how that someone came to least some
> of the correct conclusions.
>
I wrote a critique about Einstein's text, not about relativity.

I therefore do not want to rewrite Einstein's text or try to find
correct solutions for his errors.

To find these errors is actually a method meant as selfeducation. The
idea is to apply valid methods only and identify deviations from that
and analyze, what the author did wrong.

The effect is actually, that the application of valid methods get
trained in this process and that errors are avoided.

The method uses actually Einstein's text as training object. This is not
meant as critique on relativity, but of this text, which I would regard
as crap (because it contains hundreds of errors).

TH

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<62974563$0$18398$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

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From: pyt...@python.invalid (Python)
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 by: Python - Wed, 1 Jun 2022 10:54 UTC

Thomas Heger wrote:
....
> Instead of that, I received tons of insults, which had almost no
> connection to the text or my critique.

This is a blatant, shameful lie Thomas

> What shall I say???

What you should DO is to remove your head from the sand.

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<a284e166-8dcf-4706-924f-50fc391710bbn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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 by: Maciej Wozniak - Wed, 1 Jun 2022 12:38 UTC

On Wednesday, 1 June 2022 at 12:54:30 UTC+2, Python wrote:
> Thomas Heger wrote:
> ...
> > Instead of that, I received tons of insults, which had almost no
> > connection to the text or my critique.
> This is a blatant, shameful lie Thomas

Oh, stinker Python is opening its muzzle again,
and trying to pretend he knows something.
Tell me, poor stinker, what is your definition of
a "theory" in the terms of Peano arithmetic?
See: if a theorem is going to be a part of a theory,
it has to be formulable in the language of the
theory. Do you get it? Or are you too stupid even for
that, poor stinker?

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<jfr1rrFbj24U1@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=91200&group=sci.physics.relativity#91200

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From: ttt_...@web.de (Thomas Heger)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
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 by: Thomas Heger - Thu, 2 Jun 2022 05:58 UTC

Am 01.06.2022 um 12:54 schrieb Python:
> Thomas Heger wrote:
> ...
>> Instead of that, I received tons of insults, which had almost no
>> connection to the text or my critique.
>
> This is a blatant, shameful lie Thomas

What do you mean with 'lie'?

Apparently you don't mean 'insults', because I received tons of insults.
(I could easily show this, but do not really want.)

So - apparently - you tried to express, that these insults were
justified by my own errors (???)

But his is not how science works or how scientitsts should behave.

>
>> What shall I say???
>
> What you should DO is to remove your head from the sand.
>
You will be surprised, but my head is not placed in any kind of sand.

TH

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<jfr20fFbj24U2@mid.individual.net>

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From: ttt_...@web.de (Thomas Heger)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
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 by: Thomas Heger - Thu, 2 Jun 2022 06:00 UTC

Am 01.06.2022 um 14:38 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
> On Wednesday, 1 June 2022 at 12:54:30 UTC+2, Python wrote:
>> Thomas Heger wrote:
>> ...
>>> Instead of that, I received tons of insults, which had almost no
>>> connection to the text or my critique.
>> This is a blatant, shameful lie Thomas
>
>
> Oh, stinker Python is opening its muzzle again,
> and trying to pretend he knows something.
> Tell me, poor stinker, what is your definition of
> a "theory" in the terms of Peano arithmetic?
> See: if a theorem is going to be a part of a theory,
> it has to be formulable in the language of the
> theory. Do you get it? Or are you too stupid even for
> that, poor stinker?
>

I do not see any conncetion of your comment to the topic of our discussion.

So, please, could you be so kind and explain, how you relate 'Peano
arithmetic' to SRT?

TH

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<t79lpg$s5s$1@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
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 by: Mikko - Thu, 2 Jun 2022 06:36 UTC

On 2022-06-02 05:58:24 +0000, Thomas Heger said:

> So - apparently - you tried to express, that these insults were
> justified by my own errors (???)

If you want to know the motivation behind the "insults", find the message
where the first "insult" was and your message that someone considered to
need what you regard as an "insult". If the motivation is not obvious you
may ask.

> But his is not how science works or how scientitsts should behave.

Or find the first "insult" by a scientist.

Mikko

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<jftkieFpa8vU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ttt_...@web.de (Thomas Heger)
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Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
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 by: Thomas Heger - Fri, 3 Jun 2022 05:29 UTC

Am 02.06.2022 um 08:36 schrieb Mikko:
> On 2022-06-02 05:58:24 +0000, Thomas Heger said:
>
>> So - apparently - you tried to express, that these insults were
>> justified by my own errors (???)
>
> If you want to know the motivation behind the "insults", find the message
> where the first "insult" was and your message that someone considered to
> need what you regard as an "insult". If the motivation is not obvious you
> may ask.

I don't know, who is actually behind a certain UserName.

I use my own real name, but many don't.

I also think, that a large part of the traffic in the UseNet is created
by AI.

Therefore, I'm unable to identify, whether or not a critique stems from
a real scientist or from a bunch of underpaid bullshit artists.

I can only count insults and can insure you, the number is just enormous.

This not really a problem, only a little annoying.

>> But his is not how science works or how scientitsts should behave.
>
> Or find the first "insult" by a scientist.
>
Sorry, but the requirement 'by a scientist' is not easy to fulfill,
because I have no means to find out, who is who and whether a User is
actually a person or a 'persona', used by a machine.

TH

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<jftl46Fpd2sU1@mid.individual.net>

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Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
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 by: Thomas Heger - Fri, 3 Jun 2022 05:39 UTC

Am 10.05.2022 um 09:19 schrieb JanPB:
> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 10:12:10 PM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 08.05.2022 um 21:33 schrieb JanPB:
>>
>>>> Now we are still discussing the question, how Einstein's words should be
>>>> understood.
>>>>
>>>> We have here a simple situation: a beam is sent out by some source and
>>>> reflected back to its origin.
>>>>
>>>> The question is now: which variables belong to which quantities.
>>>>
>>>> This should not be a subject to debate in a good paper, but is in this case.
>>>
>>> It's not an object of debate among the intended audience of the paper.
>>> The text admits only one interpretation.
>> Sure, the intended audience would never ever dare to criticise a single
>> word of Einstein.
>
> Stop fantasising. This is not a James Bond film. When I said "It's not an
> object of debate among the intended audience of the paper", I meant the
> mathematics and the physics content of the paper has only one interpretation.

It is actually the mathematical and physical content of Einstein's
paper, which contains the most problematic parts.

He made a lot of other errors, which were more linguistic of formal.

But for instance this one:

Einstein used coordinate systems in motion and at rest to describe a
certain pheonomenon.

The real thing is this phenomenon, while coordinate systems are abstract
'brainchilds'.

Now Einstein tried to create a coordinate transformation between the one
system at rest and the moving system under the name 'tau'.

This tau deals with these two brainchilds K and k and transforms the
description of a phenomonon from system K to system k or vice versa.

But what you should not do is, what Einstein actually did and ascribe
the coordinate transformation to the real phenomenon, because that
phenomenon does not know about our brainchilds.

....

TH

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<jftshbFqjjgU1@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=91269&group=sci.physics.relativity#91269

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From: ttt_...@web.de (Thomas Heger)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2022 09:45:47 +0200
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 by: Thomas Heger - Fri, 3 Jun 2022 07:45 UTC

Am 03.05.2022 um 07:58 schrieb Thomas Heger:

> Now these points have coordinates in system K, too, which we can derive
> by applying the simple Galileo transform.
>
> What is irrelevant here, that is the visual impression of the observed
> pheonomenon by an observer in K.
>
> Such impressions are usually distorted by relative motion and the
> Doppler effect. But such impressions are irrelevant, anyhow, at least at
> the side of the moving system.
>
>
>> This is elementary school physics material.
>>
>>> while Einstein wrote
>>> x'= x- vt
>>
>> This is correct, it's simply a new name for the combination "x - vt".
> ?
>
> Actually the equal sign could be interpreted this way. But the variables
> should have a meaning, too.
>
> So, x' is not just the name of something, which does not exist.
>
>>> This little change is what caused the trouble, because x is a coordinate
>>> from K while xsi belongs to k.
>>
>> There is no ksi here. This part is about setting up a description of
>> objects moving at v *as measured by K*.
>
> Sure, we have no xsi here.
>
> But we should, because xsi was the name of the coordinate in k, where
> the mirror was placed, not x or x'.
>
> This place xsi in k needs to be transformed to K, hence we start from
> that point in k and derive the corresponding coordinate in K.
>

Important issue:

a coordinate transformation should not alter the observed phenomenon
itself, that is described by references to two different coordinate systems.

Therefore a valid description of a wave or field has to leave that wave
or field unchanged, if the vectors of its description are based on a
different coordinate system.

This is so, because a coordinate system is not a real thing, hence its
movement cannot possibly have any real physical effects.

But Einstein didn't think so and 'derived' (real!) relativistic effects
by a coordinate transformation.

TH

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<t7cjb3$h33$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=91273&group=sci.physics.relativity#91273

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mikko.le...@iki.fi (Mikko)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 12:13:07 +0300
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 by: Mikko - Fri, 3 Jun 2022 09:13 UTC

On 2022-06-03 05:29:55 +0000, Thomas Heger said:

> Am 02.06.2022 um 08:36 schrieb Mikko:
>> On 2022-06-02 05:58:24 +0000, Thomas Heger said:
>>
>>> So - apparently - you tried to express, that these insults were
>>> justified by my own errors (???)
>>
>> If you want to know the motivation behind the "insults", find the message
>> where the first "insult" was and your message that someone considered to
>> need what you regard as an "insult". If the motivation is not obvious you
>> may ask.
>
> I don't know, who is actually behind a certain UserName.

Doesn't matter, it is not important. Just see what you wrote
and how it was responded.

...

> I can only count insults and can insure you, the number is just enormous.

The number does not matter. The first case is the most important.

...

>> Or find the first "insult" by a scientist.
>>
> Sorry, but the requirement 'by a scientist' is not easy to fulfill,
> because I have no means to find out, who is who and whether a User is
> actually a person or a 'persona', used by a machine.

Then go to the very first one and don't care whether anybody is a
scientist. Most likely nobody is.

Mikko

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<jg0apbF8ru7U1@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=91314&group=sci.physics.relativity#91314

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From: ttt_...@web.de (Thomas Heger)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2022 08:01:14 +0200
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 by: Thomas Heger - Sat, 4 Jun 2022 06:01 UTC

Am 03.06.2022 um 11:13 schrieb Mikko:

>>>> So - apparently - you tried to express, that these insults were
>>>> justified by my own errors (???)
>>>
>>> If you want to know the motivation behind the "insults", find the
>>> message
>>> where the first "insult" was and your message that someone considered to
>>> need what you regard as an "insult". If the motivation is not obvious
>>> you
>>> may ask.
>>
>> I don't know, who is actually behind a certain UserName.
>
> Doesn't matter, it is not important. Just see what you wrote
> and how it was responded.

Many insults came from a user named 'Dono', who called me 'Nazi' or similar.

In the German group de.sci.physik there was mainly an austrian with the
username 'Fritz'.

The patter seems to be, that kind of 'wolf-pack' attacks everybody, who
dares to criticise Einstein's SRT.

The text itself is as crappy as a paper can get, but was presented by
the media as the pinnacle of all human endeavours.

That could possibly be explained by a large scale scientific fraud,
which is assisted by massive amounts of money and power.

Now the question is: who is behind this scam and for which reasons?

I actually do not know. But I do know, that this is not how science
should work.

....

TH

Re: Annotated version of SRT

<t7fanj$3n2$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=91318&group=sci.physics.relativity#91318

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rbe...@hushmail.com (Reinhardt Behm)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2022 10:04:35 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Reinhardt Behm - Sat, 4 Jun 2022 10:04 UTC

On Sat, 04 Jun 2022 08:01:14 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 03.06.2022 um 11:13 schrieb Mikko:
>
>>>>> So - apparently - you tried to express, that these insults were
>>>>> justified by my own errors (???)
>>>>
>>>> If you want to know the motivation behind the "insults", find the
>>>> message where the first "insult" was and your message that someone
>>>> considered to need what you regard as an "insult". If the motivation
>>>> is not obvious you may ask.
>>>
>>> I don't know, who is actually behind a certain UserName.
>>
>> Doesn't matter, it is not important. Just see what you wrote and how it
>> was responded.
>
> Many insults came from a user named 'Dono', who called me 'Nazi' or
> similar.
>
> In the German group de.sci.physik there was mainly an austrian with the
> username 'Fritz'.

And it does not come to your mind that these attacks might be caused by
the BS you continually post to many groups. Latest example in DSE: The
Aral sea has gotten smaller because of "growing earth" whereas everybody
knows that this is caused by the Russians redirecting the feeding rivers
for irrigation of their cotton fields.
> The patter seems to be, that kind of 'wolf-pack' attacks everybody, who
> dares to criticise Einstein's SRT.

Because most "critics" simply criticize without understanding anything of
it.
>
> The text itself is as crappy as a paper can get, but was presented by
> the media as the pinnacle of all human endeavours.
>
> That could possibly be explained by a large scale scientific fraud,
> which is assisted by massive amounts of money and power.

As with any crackpot you come up with a giant unfounded conspiracy and
you are the only one who is able to see this. In reality your bullshit is
rejected by all sane people because of what it is.
> Now the question is: who is behind this scam and for which reasons?

Nobody, it exists only in your insane fantasy.

>
> I actually do not know. But I do know, that this is not how science
> should work.
>
>
> ...
>
>
> TH

--
Reinhardt

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