Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/

More chip supply trubles to come?

Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 4:45:34 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> > Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
> >
> > https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chok
> > es-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
> >
> > More chip supply troubles to come?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon
>
> Any air-liquification plant can supply it, and that does seem to be the
> only source. Our atmosphere contains 18.2 ppm of neon by volume, so you
> have to process a lot of air to get much neon.
>
> Quite why Russia and the Ukraine supply 90% of the market isn't obvious -
> there are air liquification plants all over the wourld supplying liquid
> nitrogen to everybody.
>
> Presumably you'd have to tack on a bit more gear to take out the neon as
> a separate gas, but it wouldn't be difficult or demanding. I imagine that
> at some point the USSR made a hash of predicting how much neon they'd
> need, and installed more neon-extracting capacity than they actually
> needed, and have been undercutting everybody else ever since.

Philips used to make some very neat air-liquefying plant based on a
Stirling-cycle machine and a fractionating column. Various editions of
the Philips Technical Review explain it in great detail.

Jan, do you happen to know if they still make it?

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

lørdag den 5. marts 2022 kl. 08.26.49 UTC+1 skrev bill....@ieee.org:
> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 4:45:34 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> > Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
> >
> > https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
> >
> > More chip supply troubles to come?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon
>
> Any air-liquification plant can supply it, and that does seem to be the only source. Our atmosphere contains 18.2 ppm of neon by volume, so you have to process a lot of air to get much neon.
>
> Quite why Russia and the Ukraine supply 90% of the market isn't obvious - there are air liquification plants all over the wourld supplying liquid nitrogen to everybody.
>
> Presumably you'd have to tack on a bit more gear to take out the neon as a separate gas, but it wouldn't be difficult or demanding. I imagine that at some point the USSR made a hash of predicting how much neon they'd need, and installed more neon-extracting capacity than they actually needed, and have been undercutting everybody else ever since.
>

https://hackaday.com/2022/02/27/neon-ukraine-and-the-global-semiconductor-industry/#comments

Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
news:1df2cd5e-a451-473f-acd5-bf6247d5c65en@googlegroups.com:

> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 4:45:34 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje
> wrote:
>> Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for
>> chipmaking
>
>>
>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasio
>> n-choke
> s-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
>>
>> More chip supply troubles to come?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon
>
> Any air-liquification plant can supply it, and that does seem to
> be the only source. Our atmosphere contains 18.2 ppm of neon by
> volume, so you have to process a lot of air to get much neon.
>
> Quite why Russia and the Ukraine supply 90% of the market isn't
> obvious - there are air liquification plants all over the wourld
> supplying liquid nitrogen to everybody.
>
> Presumably you'd have to tack on a bit more gear to take out the
> neon as a separate gas, but it wouldn't be difficult or demanding.
> I imagine that at some point the USSR made a hash of predicting
> how much neon they'd need, and installed more neon-extracting
> capacity than they actually needed, and have been undercutting
> everybody else ever since.
>

We will just have to build separators and gather it up at a plant
here. Or in another free nation. The hardware is not that
significant. It is not like the rare earth issue China is going to
present the planet with.

Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
news:7f52dcd5-0f02-429c-9555-ac2050e2ab97n@googlegroups.com:

> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 9:11:41 PM UTC+11, Liz Tuddenham
> wrote:
>> Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
>>
>> > On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 4:45:34 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje
>> > wrote:
>
>> > > Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for
>> > > chipmak
> ing
>> > >
>> > > https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-inv
>> > > asion-c
> hok
>> > > es-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
>> > >
>> > > More chip supply troubles to come?
>> >
>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon
>> >
>> > Any air-liquification plant can supply it, and that does seem
>> > to be the
>
>> > only source. Our atmosphere contains 18.2 ppm of neon by
>> > volume, so you
>
>> > have to process a lot of air to get much neon.
>> >
>> > Quite why Russia and the Ukraine supply 90% of the market isn't
>> > obvious
> -
>> > there are air liquification plants all over the wourld
>> > supplying liquid
>
>> > nitrogen to everybody.
>> >
>> > Presumably you'd have to tack on a bit more gear to take out
>> > the neon a
> s
>> > a separate gas, but it wouldn't be difficult or demanding. I
>> > imagine th
> at
>> > at some point the USSR made a hash of predicting how much neon
>> > they'd
>
>> > need, and installed more neon-extracting capacity than they
>> > actually needed, and have been undercutting everybody else ever
>> > since.
>> Philips used to make some very neat air-liquefying plant based on
>> a Stirling-cycle machine and a fractionating column. Various
>> editions of the Philips Technical Review explain it in great
>> detail.
>>
>> Jan, do you happen to know if they still make it?
>
> Probably not. Philips is pretty much localised around Eindhoven,
> which down on the Belgian border, and Jan seems to live in the
> Achterhoek, quite a bit further north close to Germany. They've
> got their own technical university at at Twente. The distances
> aren't all that large but it's in the Protestant north of the
> country rather than the Catholic South. Philips did have a
> semiconductor plant in Nijmegen (now NXP) but Nijmegen in still in
> the Catholic south.
>

The wiki article stated that over 90% is made in Ukraine and Russia.

But I am quite sure that smaller production facilities can be set
upi pretty quickly. Like solar, or wind, a whole bunch of them could
nearly replace what we used to get from them.

On a sunny day (Sat, 5 Mar 2022 10:10:54 +0000) it happened
liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in
<1poc9fw.1uhlm9g5r38z0N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

>Philips used to make some very neat air-liquefying plant based on a
>Stirling-cycle machine and a fractionating column. Various editions of
>the Philips Technical Review explain it in great detail.
>
>Jan, do you happen to know if they still make it?

I do not know, idea.
But google finds this:
https://www.stirlingcryogenics.eu/en/products/liquid-nitrogen-production-systems

I can make my own liquid air with my stirling cooler (from a superconducting filter unit from an old cellphone tower):
http://panteltje.com/pub/cryo/

See this guy for where I got the idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14B8LynojI4

On a sunny day (Sat, 5 Mar 2022 02:43:23 -0800 (PST)) it happened Anthony
William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
<7f52dcd5-0f02-429c-9555-ac2050e2ab97n@googlegroups.com>:

>Probably not. Philips is pretty much localised around Eindhoven, which down
>on the Belgian border, and Jan seems to live in the Achterhoek,

Actually these days I live in the north in Friesland near the islands.
Clean air!

Religion hardly matters here or in the whole country,
Anyways the storm last week seems to have killed the church clock bongs here..

I worked for Philips and Philips military (in Huizen) long ago,
that is close to Amsterdam.

Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
news:dee6c6b5-130f-418c-a219-77133af49a69n@googlegroups.com:

> Actually, it is pretty much the same issue. Russia was selling
> neon cheaply enough that it isn't worth anybody else's while to
> set up the separators.

Wrong again, chump. The world got most of it from Ukraine.

And when a shortage is caused by current circumstance, it IS very much
worth it for the chip fabs and laser makers to make moves to get it
elsewhere, even if the cost is higher.

Essentially your grasp of what takes place when things like a war
breaks out rests firmly at nil.

But I am sure that you will go back to your same retarded habit of
posting horseshit and then replying to responses with the stupid FOOL
quote, message header morphed stupid shit.

Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in news:dee6c6b5-
130f-418c-a219-77133af49a69n@googlegroups.com:

> <snip>

Actually I took your post as one from John Dope, because what you said
does not make sene in the current circumstance.

Same thing with the claims you made about the rare earth metals.
Some of those are ONLY in China, and any other place in the world has
to little of it to make any extraction processes too costly and produce
too little. But that is not the case with Neon.

Like Platinum, mainly in South Africa, the few other places it is
mined have much lower yields and make it prohibitively expensive.
So even though it can be found even here in North America, there is
only one "Platinum mine" in the US.

On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 05:45:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
>
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
>
>More chip supply trubles to come?

It will help some if we don't sell the Russians any chips.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Mar 2022 07:50:11 -0800) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<ak172hh7u3n7b74dddbtdr4ifb1ck8pbv5@4ax.com>:

>On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 05:45:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
>>
>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
>>
>>More chip supply trubles to come?
>
>It will help some if we don't sell the Russians any chips.

That whole 'sanctions' thing that Trump started is, as somebody here "Carlos?" remarked
a silly things
If you sanction sellers you hit buyers too, and vice versa.

Russia will likely get chips from China if needed,
China has its own processors, was reading Lenovo has a laptop
with a Chinese processor, and a Chinese OS?
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/lenovo-notebook-packs-zhaoxin-cpu

US is killing itself as it demonstrates it is a bad idea to do business with
it as it can change deals anytime it feels like it.
Block your money, confiscate your property...
Called stealing in the free world...

BAD for business.

LOL I was reading Microsoft no longer wants to sell their windows OS
to Russia.. Well that will help Russia a lot if they all switch to something else like for example Linux :-)

On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 6:51:22 AM UTC-8, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

> ...about the rare earth metals.
> Some of those are ONLY in China, and any other place in the world has
> to little of it to make any extraction processes too costly and produce
> too little.

It's not hard to find rare earth minerals, they're well spread. What IS hard,
is separating them, which takes lots of chemical wizardry. So, while
one can get a supply of mischmetal (like for the 'flint' elements of
disposable lighters) anywhere, a pure neodymium supply for making
magnets is going to involve a shipment from China.

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 6:51:22 AM UTC-8,
> DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
>
>> ...about the rare earth metals.
>> Some of those are ONLY in China, and any other place in the world has
>> to little of it to make any extraction processes too costly and produce
>> too little.
>
> It's not hard to find rare earth minerals, they're well spread. What
> IS hard, is separating them, which takes lots of chemical wizardry.
> So, while one can get a supply of mischmetal (like for the 'flint'
> elements of disposable lighters) anywhere, a pure neodymium supply for
> making magnets is going to involve a shipment from China.

That could change. Thorium Molten Salt Reactors will soon come online.

From a recent post:

4. Nuclear Waste: Fission Products, Decay Products, Transuranics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neU0KGgQ0Z4

Among the fission products are xenon, neodymium, zirconium, and molebdenum.
- xenon is used in satellite propulsion
- neodymium is used in electric cars and wind generators
- zirconium is strong, malleable, corrosion resistant, with many uses
- molebdenum is used in carbides and high-strength alloys and superalloys
and is a trace element essential for life

Most of the fission products decay rapidly.

5. Radioactivity

5A. Isotopes of xenon

Naturally occurring xenon (54Xe) consists of seven stable isotopes
and two very long-lived isotopes. Double electron capture has been
observed in 124Xe (half-life 1.8 +/- 0.5(stat) +/- 0.1(sys) x1022
years)[1] and double beta decay in 136Xe (half-life 2.165 +/-
0.016(stat) +/- 0.059(sys) x1021 years),[2] which are among the
longest measured half-lives of all nuclides. The isotopes 126Xe and
134Xe are also predicted to undergo double beta decay,[4] but this
has never been observed in these isotopes, so they are considered to
be stable.[5][6] Beyond these stable forms, 32 artificial unstable
isotopes and various isomers have been studied, the longest-lived of
which is 127Xe with a half-life of 36.345 days. All other isotopes
have half-lives less than 12 days, most less than 20 hours. The
shortest-lived isotope, 108Xe,[7] has a half-life of 58 ?s, and is
the heaviest known nuclide with equal numbers of protons and
neutrons. Of known isomers, the longest-lived is 131mXe with a
half-life of 11.934 days. 129Xe is produced by beta decay of 129I
(half-life: 16 million years); 131mXe, 133Xe, 133mXe, and 135Xe are
some of the fission products of both 235U and 239Pu, so are used as
indicators of nuclear explosions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_xenon

5B. Isotopes of neodymium
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Naturally occurring neodymium (60Nd) is composed of 5 stable
isotopes, 142Nd, 143Nd, 145Nd, 146Nd and 148Nd, with 142Nd being the
most abundant (27.2% natural abundance), and 2 long-lived
radioisotopes, 144Nd and 150Nd. In all, 33 radioisotopes of
neodymium have been characterized up to now, with the most stable
being naturally occurring isotopes 144Nd (alpha decay, a half-life
(t1/2) of 2.29x1015 years) and 150Nd (double beta decay, t1/2 of
7x1018 years).

All of the remaining radioactive isotopes have half-lives that are
less than 12 days, and the majority of these have half-lives that
are less than 70 seconds; the most stable artificial isotope is
147Nd with a half-life of 10.98 days. This element also has 13 known
meta states with the most stable being 139mNd (t1/2 5.5 hours),
135mNd (t1/2 5.5 minutes) and 133m1Nd (t1/2 ~70 seconds).

The primary decay modes before the most abundant stable isotope,
142Nd, are electron capture and positron decay, and the primary mode
after is beta decay. The primary decay products before 142Nd are
element Pr (praseodymium) isotopes and the primary products after
are element Pm (promethium) isotopes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_neodymium

5C. Isotopes of molybdenum

Molybdenum (42Mo) has 33 known isotopes, ranging in atomic mass from
83 to 115, as well as four metastable nuclear isomers. Seven
isotopes occur naturally, with atomic masses of 92, 94, 95, 96, 97,
98, and 100. All unstable isotopes of molybdenum decay into isotopes
of zirconium, niobium, technetium, and ruthenium.[2]

Molybdenum-100 is the only naturally occurring isotope that is not
stable. Molybdenum-100 has a half-life of approximately 1x1019 y and
undergoes double beta decay into ruthenium-100. Molybdenum-98 is the
most common isotope, comprising 24.14% of all molybdenum on Earth.
Molybdenum isotopes with mass numbers 111 and up all have half-lives
of approximately .15 s.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_molybdenum

5D. Isotopes of zirconium

Naturally occurring zirconium (40Zr) is composed of four stable
isotopes (of which one may in the future be found radioactive), and
one very long-lived radioisotope (96Zr), a primordial nuclide that
decays via double beta decay with an observed half-life of 2.0x1019
years;[3] it can also undergo single beta decay, which is not yet
observed, but the theoretically predicted value of t1/2 is 2.4x1020
years.[4] The second most stable radioisotope is 93Zr, which has a
half-life of 1.53 million years. Thirty other radioisotopes have
been observed. All have half-lives less than a day except for 95Zr
(64.02 days), 88Zr (83.4 days), and 89Zr (78.41 hours). The primary
decay mode is electron capture for isotopes lighter than 92Zr, and
the primary mode for heavier isotopes is beta decay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_zirconium

Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:t005ji$rde$1@dont-email.me:

> That whole 'sanctions' thing that Trump started is, as somebody
> here "Carlos?" remarked a silly things
> If you sanction sellers you hit buyers too, and vice versa.
>

You obviously have zero grasp of the purpose of a sanction.

On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 17:11:23 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Mar 2022 07:50:11 -0800) it happened
>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
><ak172hh7u3n7b74dddbtdr4ifb1ck8pbv5@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 05:45:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
>>>
>>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
>>>
>>>More chip supply trubles to come?
>>
>>It will help some if we don't sell the Russians any chips.
>
>That whole 'sanctions' thing that Trump started is, as somebody here "Carlos?" remarked
>a silly things
>If you sanction sellers you hit buyers too, and vice versa.
>
>
>Russia will likely get chips from China if needed,
>China has its own processors, was reading Lenovo has a laptop
>with a Chinese processor, and a Chinese OS?
> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/lenovo-notebook-packs-zhaoxin-cpu
>
>
>US is killing itself as it demonstrates it is a bad idea to do business with
>it as it can change deals anytime it feels like it.
>Block your money, confiscate your property...
>Called stealing in the free world...
>
>BAD for business.

It's a shame we lost so much revenue not selling poison gas to
Germany.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 9:51:22 AM UTC-5, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote in news:dee6c6b5-
> 130f-418c-a219...@googlegroups.com:
>
> > <snip>
>
> Actually I took your post as one from John Dope, because what you said
> does not make sene in the current circumstance.
>
> Same thing with the claims you made about the rare earth metals.
> Some of those are ONLY in China

Which ones?

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:50:23 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 05:45:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
> <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
> >
> > https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
> >
> >More chip supply trubles to come?
> It will help some if we don't sell the Russians any chips.

By "we" you mean the Taiwanese?

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

> It's a shame we lost so much revenue not selling poison gas to
> Germany.

what an atrocious thing to say.

First of all, use of poison gas was outlawed by the Hague Conventions of 1899
and 1907, and the Geneva Protocol in 1925.

Second, you want to send poison gas to Germany to use on US Troops?

I'm sure most of your customers would be interested to hear you say that.

On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 9:13:57 PM UTC-5, Mike Monett wrote:
> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
> > It's a shame we lost so much revenue not selling poison gas to
> > Germany.
> what an atrocious thing to say.
>
> First of all, use of poison gas was outlawed by the Hague Conventions of 1899
> and 1907, and the Geneva Protocol in 1925.
>
> Second, you want to send poison gas to Germany to use on US Troops?
>
> I'm sure most of your customers would be interested to hear you say that.

You need to learn how to read people as well as what they write. Did you really think he was suggesting the US should have sold poison gas to Germany?

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote in
news:XnsAE51D7F619222idtokenpost@144.76.35.252:

> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
>> It's a shame we lost so much revenue not selling poison gas to
>> Germany.
>
> what an atrocious thing to say.
>
> First of all, use of poison gas was outlawed by the Hague
> Conventions of 1899 and 1907, and the Geneva Protocol in 1925.
>
> Second, you want to send poison gas to Germany to use on US
> Troops?
>
> I'm sure most of your customers would be interested to hear you
> say that.

Used to be something like that would cause loss of all current and
future contracts, with a fair immediacy, and oh looky no trial needed.

We should send Larkin over to assassinate Putin.

On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Mar 2022 14:40:45 -0800) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<qkp72htb48qubdf74g998pj9evpobn65pv@4ax.com>:

>On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 17:11:23 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Mar 2022 07:50:11 -0800) it happened
>>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>><ak172hh7u3n7b74dddbtdr4ifb1ck8pbv5@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 05:45:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
>>>>
>>>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
>>>>
>>>>More chip supply trubles to come?
>>>
>>>It will help some if we don't sell the Russians any chips.
>>
>>That whole 'sanctions' thing that Trump started is, as somebody here "Carlos?" remarked
>>a silly things
>>If you sanction sellers you hit buyers too, and vice versa.
>>
>>
>>Russia will likely get chips from China if needed,
>>China has its own processors, was reading Lenovo has a laptop
>>with a Chinese processor, and a Chinese OS?
>> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/lenovo-notebook-packs-zhaoxin-cpu
>>
>>
>>US is killing itself as it demonstrates it is a bad idea to do business with
>>it as it can change deals anytime it feels like it.
>>Block your money, confiscate your property...
>>Called stealing in the free world...
>>
>>BAD for business.
>
>It's a shame we lost so much revenue not selling poison gas to
>Germany.

But IBM did sell stuff to them to keep track of the Jews before WW2.
US and poison gas
1) they made covid
2) they made HIV
3) they nuked Japan
4) they poisoned Vietnam with agent orange
5) they used depleted ammo in Iraq
6) they polluted land allocated by themselves to the Native American with endless nuke tests
7) they poison their own people with fracking

... the list is endless.

On 05/03/2022 14:51, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
> Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in news:dee6c6b5-
> 130f-418c-a219-77133af49a69n@googlegroups.com:
>
>> <snip>
>
> Actually I took your post as one from John Dope, because what you said
> does not make sene in the current circumstance.
>
> Same thing with the claims you made about the rare earth metals.
> Some of those are ONLY in China, and any other place in the world has
> to little of it to make any extraction processes too costly and produce
> too little. But that is not the case with Neon.

Which rare earth element is only found in China then?

My sources say that even the rarest REE is widespread in crustal rocks.

Europium is depleted in some highly altered rocks which makes rare earth
signatures a good indicator of the provenance of wine, meteorites or
precious metals.

https://www2.bgs.ac.uk/mineralsuk/download/mineralProfiles/rare_earth_elements_profile.pdf

The Europium anomaly - geologists get quite excited about it for reasons
that escape me completely even though I wrote some of the software.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europium_anomaly#/media/File:A_graph_of_basalt_REE_abundance.png

Otherwise the REE chemistry is incredibly similar which makes them very
difficult to separate out. Some were only properly isolated in pure form
after the nuclear industry figured out ion exchange separation.
>
> Like Platinum, mainly in South Africa, the few other places it is
> mined have much lower yields and make it prohibitively expensive.
> So even though it can be found even here in North America, there is
> only one "Platinum mine" in the US.

US and Scandinavia have deposits of mineable REE minerals (which are
rare) the problem with all the lanthanide series is that they are quite
common in the environment but seldom concentrated into mineable ore.

China used their economies of scale to price everyone else out of the
market. Something that myopic capitalism was quite happy to permit.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 05/03/2022 19:14, whit3rd wrote:
> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 6:51:22 AM UTC-8, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
>
>> ...about the rare earth metals.
>> Some of those are ONLY in China, and any other place in the world has
>> to little of it to make any extraction processes too costly and produce
>> too little.
>
> It's not hard to find rare earth minerals, they're well spread. What IS hard,
> is separating them, which takes lots of chemical wizardry. So, while
> one can get a supply of mischmetal (like for the 'flint' elements of
> disposable lighters) anywhere, a pure neodymium supply for making
> magnets is going to involve a shipment from China.
>

Yes. It's not that they are rare in the earth's surface rocks - it is
that they are rare within any given rock. There's no good rich ores for
them, they are just found as traces in many other ores.

Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:t01u5p$3cf$1@dont-email.me:

> On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Mar 2022 14:40:45 -0800) it happened
> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
> <qkp72htb48qubdf74g998pj9evpobn65pv@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 17:11:23 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Mar 2022 07:50:11 -0800) it happened
>>>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>>><ak172hh7u3n7b74dddbtdr4ifb1ck8pbv5@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 05:45:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for
>>>>>chipmaking
>>>>>
>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-inva
>>>>> sion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
>>>>>
>>>>>More chip supply trubles to come?
>>>>
>>>>It will help some if we don't sell the Russians any chips.
>>>
>>>That whole 'sanctions' thing that Trump started is, as somebody
>>>here "Carlos?" remarked a silly things
>>>If you sanction sellers you hit buyers too, and vice versa.
>>>
>>>
>>>Russia will likely get chips from China if needed,
>>>China has its own processors, was reading Lenovo has a laptop
>>>with a Chinese processor, and a Chinese OS?
>>> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/lenovo-notebook-packs-zhaoxin-c
>>> pu
>>>
>>>
>>>US is killing itself as it demonstrates it is a bad idea to do
>>>business with it as it can change deals anytime it feels like it.
>>>Block your money, confiscate your property...
>>>Called stealing in the free world...
>>>
>>>BAD for business.
>>
>>It's a shame we lost so much revenue not selling poison gas to
>>Germany.
>
> But IBM did sell stuff to them to keep track of the Jews before

Not computers, because there were none. A fucking tabulator is no
big deal, and IBM did nothing like that intentionally. Whereas Henry
Ford was an actual Nazi sympathizer.

> WW2. US and poison gas

The Nazis developed Sarin Gas in WWII. Don't recall the US doing
anything of the sort.

On 22 APR 1915, the Germans were the first to use poison gasses.

> 1) they made covid

You are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.

> 2) they made HIV

You are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.

> 3) they nuked Japan

You are aware that Japan tortured and killed more than were killed
by those bombs, which had the imediated effect of ending the war.
Essentially,you are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.

> 4) they poisoned Vietnam with agent orange

It was a defoliant which turned out to be harmful, but harmed as
many of us as it did them.
Esentially, you are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.

> 5) they used depleted ammo in Iraq

Yes, because it is very heavy and makes very good ballistic
projectiles. They were used on enemies, and those enemies died form
the bullet penatration, not the DU.
Essentially, you are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.

> 6) they polluted land allocated by themselves to the Native
> American with endless nuke tests.

It was unknown at the time what the effects would be.
Essentially, you are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.

> 7) they poison their own people
> with fracking

Consiracy horseshit.
Essentially, you are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.
> .. the list is endless.

The list of the stupid shit you spew is endless, jackass.
Essentially, you are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.

Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in news:t01vub$1e76$1
@gioia.aioe.org:

> Which rare earth element is only found in China then?
>

Only mined in China. We got it going nice and cheap, and no it will
cost us whether we have to get it from them marked up or create the
facilities to produce it here.