Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the admiration
of ordinary people and leaders around the world.

Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI

His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.

Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and offered
their support for Ukraine to join NATO.

This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The video is
very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my eyes. I had to repeat it
numerous times for it to sink in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU

His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the truth. He has
changed the world.

--
MRM

On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 02:38:28 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
wrote:

>Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the admiration
>of ordinary people and leaders around the world.
>
>Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI
>
>His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.
>
>Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and offered
>their support for Ukraine to join NATO.
>
>This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The video is
>very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my eyes. I had to repeat it
>numerous times for it to sink in:
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU
>
>His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the truth. He has
>changed the world.

Three European Prime Ministers do not represent NATO.

RL

On 2022/03/15 7:38 p.m., Mike Monett wrote:
> Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the admiration
> of ordinary people and leaders around the world.
>
> Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI
>
> His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.
>
> Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and offered
> their support for Ukraine to join NATO.
>
> This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The video is
> very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my eyes. I had to repeat it
> numerous times for it to sink in:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU
>
> His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the truth. He has
> changed the world.
>

The organization has to agree to accept Ukraine, members can only
request the organization to consider it. It is not going to happen at
this time. Too many ways for things to spiral out of control...

I assume that Putin's fear now is if he doesn't conquer Ukraine that
they will join NATO in a few years (these things take time) and then
where will he be?

Not to mention that Sweden and Finland now see that NATO is their best
defence against Russia. They are seriously considering joining.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/finland-sweden-brush-off-moscows-warning-joining-nato-83126927

It now depends on how stable Putin can craft a 'victory' out of this
debacle to save enough face to remain in power.

John

legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 02:38:28 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the
>>admiration of ordinary people and leaders around the world.
>>
>>Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:
>>
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI
>>
>>His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.
>>
>>Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and
>>offered their support for Ukraine to join NATO.
>>
>>This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The video
>>is very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my eyes. I had to
>>repeat it numerous times for it to sink in:
>>
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU
>>
>>His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the truth. He
>>has changed the world.
>
> Three European Prime Ministers do not represent NATO.
>
> RL

They can recommend. That was the purpose of their trip.

Zelensky has adressed the English and Canadian parliaments with very
favorable results. He will address the US congress and is expected to
receive a favorable reception. His outstanding leadership against Putin,
and the overwhelming worldwide sanctions against Russia make joining NATO a
strong possibility. This is a complete reversal of previous policy.

Joining NATO criteria includes a functioning democratic political system
based on a market economy; fair treatment of minority populations; a
commitment to resolve conflicts peacefully; an ability and willingness to
make a military contribution to NATO operations; and a commitment to
democratic civil-military relations...

He has demonstrated these qualities in spades.

--
MRM

John Robertson wrote:
==================
>
> >
> > His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.
> >
> > Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and offered
> > their support for Ukraine to join NATO.
> >
> > This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The video is
> > very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my eyes. I had to repeat it
> > numerous times for it to sink in:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU
> >
> > His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the truth. He has
> > changed the world.
> >
> The organization has to agree to accept Ukraine, members can only
> request the organization to consider it. It is not going to happen at
> this time. Too many ways for things to spiral out of control...
>
> I assume that Putin's fear now is if he doesn't conquer Ukraine that
> they will join NATO in a few years (these things take time) and then
> where will he be?
>

** So he cannot stop, if temporarily thwarted he will up the ante.
It's now or never.
Putin picked his moment carefully.

....... Phil

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k1umE/TOh5dS

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> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
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> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
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> CLUELESS...

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
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Et8k2l2sq6qq

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> Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing
> except insults to this group.

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Sid9MTDvPF5j

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> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
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> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
> breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
> CLUELESS...

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PmH6cdUjy/AE

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<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
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> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
> breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
> CLUELESS...

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(UTC):

> Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing
> except insults to this group.

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JUbxS8yqko+Q

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> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
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> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
> breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
> CLUELESS...

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zlf9mMekCwdL

On 3/15/2022 10:14 PM, John Robertson wrote:
> The organization has to agree to accept Ukraine, members can only request the
> organization to consider it. It is not going to happen at this time. Too many
> ways for things to spiral out of control...

Exactly. Sort of like a (medical) insurance company NOT being eager to take
you on as a new customer the day before your scheduled heart surgery...

> I assume that Putin's fear now is if he doesn't conquer Ukraine that they will
> join NATO in a few years (these things take time) and then where will he be?

I think he's already screwed that pooch.

Amusingly, Trump may have made things *worse* for Putin as his attitude
towards the alliance has undoubtedly put the idea that America may NOT
be a reliable defense partner and, maybe, european countries might want
to think real hard about NOT relying on the US to cover their asses...
Germany buying 35 F35's does not *improve* Putin's position in europe.

> Not to mention that Sweden and Finland now see that NATO is their best defence
> against Russia. They are seriously considering joining.

Likewise, we'll probably hear more from pacrim countries looking for some
sort of defense pact wrt China. China already beating its chest to try
to discourage that from happening.

> It now depends on how stable Putin can craft a 'victory' out of this debacle to
> save enough face to remain in power.

I think public sentiment, at home, will prove bad for him, historically.
He's not going to go down in history as the man who made russia "great",
again -- especially among young people who have grown up with many of the
benefits of "westernization". Kinda hard to imagine russian millenials
in drab wool coats with equally drab head scarves waiting in line for loaves
of bread...

A russian friend, here, has been having a tough time trying to digest what
she sees on western media. And, seeing how her family back in russia are
not being shown the same materials. You gotta wonder if she's made the
connection: "How much of *my* opinions were formed from biased propaganda,
over the years, while living there?"

[C'mon, do you really think ALL of the media outlets that you can freely
access have conspired to create a fake narrative about what's happening
over there?!]

On 16/03/22 02:38, Mike Monett wrote:
> Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the admiration
> of ordinary people and leaders around the world.
>
> Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI
>
> His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.
>
> Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and offered
> their support for Ukraine to join NATO.

What's your source for that?

That is /exactly/ what Putin wants the world to believe,
since that is one of his "justifications" for the
(non-existant) war.

They may well have offered support /in principle/ for
Ukraine joining the EU, but that is irrelevant to NATO.

> This is a tremendous development that will change the world.

Ukraine will not join NATO, even though they would like to.

Even joining the EU is very unlikely.

> The video is
> very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my eyes. I had to repeat it
> numerous times for it to sink in:

Your time would have been better spent looking at other
sources that don't get their news from Russia Today's sources.

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU
>
> His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the truth. He has
> changed the world.

There we agree.

The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
> breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
> CLUELESS...

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And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly
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Further, Troll Doe stated the following in message-id
<svsh05$lbh$5@dont-email.me> posted Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:01:09 -0000
(UTC):

> Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing
> except insults to this group.

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to USENET has been 52.8% of its posts contributing "nothing except
insults" to USENET.

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
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zVaJBUy3F8sp

The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
> breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
> CLUELESS...

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
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(UTC) in message-id <t0s13c$uj4$1@dont-email.me>.

dRGy59r1IQ0H

On 16/03/2022 10:29, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 16/03/22 02:38, Mike Monett wrote:
>> Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the
>> admiration
>> of ordinary people and leaders around the world.
>>
>> Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI
>>
>> His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.
>>
>> Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and
>> offered
>> their support for Ukraine to join NATO.
>
> What's your source for that?
>
> That is /exactly/ what Putin wants the world to believe,
> since that is one of his "justifications" for the
> (non-existant) war.
>

The world doesn't follow Putin's beliefs. We all know that Ukraine had
some interest in joining NATO before the invasion - they wanted to find
a balance between getting protection from Russia after previous military
aggression, and not wanting to antagonise them. We all know that NATO
would not have accepted Ukraine, precisely to avoid causing more agrivation.

We also all know that if there is one thing that is sure about the
result of this war, it is that the Ukraine /really/ want to join NATO
now. If they come out of this all with some semblance of sovereignty,
without having bargained away their right to apply to join NATO, then
they will be keen to start the process.

Many individual NATO countries will offer support to Ukraine's
application, if it comes. But I expect that NATO as a whole will reject
it to avoid rocking the boat any further.

None of this is part of Putin's propaganda, which has never been
intended to fool anyone outside his own borders. (That it fools a few
regulars here is accidental.)

Having said that, all I have heard about the prime ministers visiting
Kiev is that they are showing their support for Ukraine, not for Ukraine
membership in NATO.

> They may well have offered support /in principle/ for
> Ukraine joining the EU, but that is irrelevant to NATO.
>
>
>> This is a tremendous development that will change the world.
>
> Ukraine will not join NATO, even though they would like to.
>

I agree.

> Even joining the EU is very unlikely.
>

More likely than joining NATO, but still unlikely.

On 16/03/22 15:37, David Brown wrote:
> On 16/03/2022 10:29, Tom Gardner wrote:
>> On 16/03/22 02:38, Mike Monett wrote:
>>> Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the
>>> admiration
>>> of ordinary people and leaders around the world.
>>>
>>> Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI
>>>
>>> His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.
>>>
>>> Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and
>>> offered
>>> their support for Ukraine to join NATO.
>>
>> What's your source for that?
>>
>> That is /exactly/ what Putin wants the world to believe,
>> since that is one of his "justifications" for the
>> (non-existant) war.
>>
>
> The world doesn't follow Putin's beliefs. We all know that Ukraine had
> some interest in joining NATO before the invasion - they wanted to find
> a balance between getting protection from Russia after previous military
> aggression, and not wanting to antagonise them. We all know that NATO
> would not have accepted Ukraine, precisely to avoid causing more agrivation.
>
> We also all know that if there is one thing that is sure about the
> result of this war, it is that the Ukraine /really/ want to join NATO
> now. If they come out of this all with some semblance of sovereignty,
> without having bargained away their right to apply to join NATO, then
> they will be keen to start the process.
>
> Many individual NATO countries will offer support to Ukraine's
> application, if it comes. But I expect that NATO as a whole will reject
> it to avoid rocking the boat any further.
>
> None of this is part of Putin's propaganda, which has never been
> intended to fool anyone outside his own borders. (That it fools a few
> regulars here is accidental.)
>
> Having said that, all I have heard about the prime ministers visiting
> Kiev is that they are showing their support for Ukraine, not for Ukraine
> membership in NATO.
>
>
>> They may well have offered support /in principle/ for
>> Ukraine joining the EU, but that is irrelevant to NATO.
>>
>>
>>> This is a tremendous development that will change the world.
>>
>> Ukraine will not join NATO, even though they would like to.
>>
>
> I agree.
>
>> Even joining the EU is very unlikely.
>>
>
> More likely than joining NATO, but still unlikely.

We appear to be in violent agreement.

However, far too many people outside Russia do follow
"Putin's beliefs". Most of them don't realise that because
Russian propaganda has become more successful.

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 2:16:37 AM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
> We need a diversity of opinions.

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. Opinions are not at all important. What is important are facts. But many don't believe in facts, not the kind that are based in reality. Some prefer to believe in unsubstantiated conspiracies, and any random rumor without a shred of evidence.

No, an opinion that we never landed on the moon is of no value. Much more useful are the facts regarding the actual moon landing event, the reality.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 16/03/2022 16:42, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 16/03/22 15:37, David Brown wrote:
>> On 16/03/2022 10:29, Tom Gardner wrote:

>>> Ukraine will not join NATO, even though they would like to.
>>>
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>>> Even joining the EU is very unlikely.
>>>
>>
>> More likely than joining NATO, but still unlikely.
>
> We appear to be in violent agreement.
>
> However, far too many people outside Russia do follow
> "Putin's beliefs". Most of them don't realise that because
> Russian propaganda has become more successful.

I don't know how common it is. I mean, even one person is "too many",
but I haven't encountered many who see things from Putin's viewpoint.
This group is hardly representative of people in general!

Of course no situation is ever quite black-or-white, and there is always
a bias to the information and opinions we are served. Ukraine has not
been a model country (though it has been improving significantly in many
ways), and while Putin's claims of genocide towards its Russian
minorities are clearly absurd exaggeration, they were not treated as
well as they might. And while I don't think NATO would let Ukraine join
properly, they are on a list of "partners". Putin was right to be
worried about Ukraine, and right to complain about close relationships
with NATO disrupting the status quo - but not right to invade (or annex
the Crimea, or to encourage and support rebellion in the east of the
country).

John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> wrote in
news:wOGdnax14bWg76z_nZ2dnUU7-bPNnZ2d@giganews.com:

>
> On 2022/03/15 7:38 p.m., Mike Monett wrote:
>> Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won
>> the admiration of ordinary people and leaders around the world.
>>
>> Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI
>>
>> His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.
>>
>> Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone,
>> and offered their support for Ukraine to join NATO.
>>
>> This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The
>> video is very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my
>> eyes. I had to repeat it numerous times for it to sink in:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU
>>
>> His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the
>> truth. He has changed the world.
>>
>
> The organization has to agree to accept Ukraine, members can only
> request the organization to consider it. It is not going to happen
> at this time. Too many ways for things to spiral out of control...
>
> I assume that Putin's fear now is if he doesn't conquer Ukraine
> that they will join NATO in a few years (these things take time)
> and then where will he be?
>
> Not to mention that Sweden and Finland now see that NATO is their
> best defence against Russia. They are seriously considering
> joining.
>
> https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/finland-sweden-brush
> -off-moscows-warning-joining-nato-83126927
>
> It now depends on how stable Putin can craft a 'victory' out of
> this debacle to save enough face to remain in power.
>
> John

Putin is an idiot. NATO nations are not pointing missiles at Russia.
NATO countries are pointing missile DEFENSE systems at Russian
airspace.

Putin is afraid of a takeover. If the rest of the world were
anything like him, it would have already happened. The fact that it
has not is proof that he is off his rocker with his zeal for getting
the old USSR back.

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 5:25:24 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com> wrote in
> news:wOGdnax14bWg76z_...@giganews.com:
> >
> > On 2022/03/15 7:38 p.m., Mike Monett wrote:
> >> Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won
> >> the admiration of ordinary people and leaders around the world.
> >>
> >> Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI
> >>
> >> His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.
> >>
> >> Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone,
> >> and offered their support for Ukraine to join NATO.
> >>
> >> This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The
> >> video is very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my
> >> eyes. I had to repeat it numerous times for it to sink in:
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU
> >>
> >> His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the
> >> truth. He has changed the world.
> >>
> >
> > The organization has to agree to accept Ukraine, members can only
> > request the organization to consider it. It is not going to happen
> > at this time. Too many ways for things to spiral out of control...
> >
> > I assume that Putin's fear now is if he doesn't conquer Ukraine
> > that they will join NATO in a few years (these things take time)
> > and then where will he be?
> >
> > Not to mention that Sweden and Finland now see that NATO is their
> > best defence against Russia. They are seriously considering
> > joining.
> >
> > https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/finland-sweden-brush
> > -off-moscows-warning-joining-nato-83126927
> >
> > It now depends on how stable Putin can craft a 'victory' out of
> > this debacle to save enough face to remain in power.
> >
> > John
>
> Putin is an idiot. NATO nations are not pointing missiles at Russia.
> NATO countries are pointing missile DEFENSE systems at Russian
> airspace.
>
> Putin is afraid of a takeover. If the rest of the world were
> anything like him, it would have already happened. The fact that it
> has not is proof that he is off his rocker with his zeal for getting
> the old USSR back.

Empty logic. It didn't happen because it didn't happen. U'r FFF