Not all bicycle technology is of the "go a tiny bit faster" type.

I liked the photos linked here
https://velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/re-visiting-french-fender-day
for creative ideas on tech details, practicality and style.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Not all bicycle technology is of the "go a tiny bit faster" type.
>
> I liked the photos linked here
> https://velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/re-visiting-french-fender-day
> for creative ideas on tech details, practicality and style.
>
>

Very pretty but I don’t see any technology or rather new technology. Seems
designed for a look I’d assume such bikes don’t see wet days!

Roger Merriman

On 10/9/2023 4:53 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Not all bicycle technology is of the "go a tiny bit faster" type.
>>
>> I liked the photos linked here
>> https://velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/re-visiting-french-fender-day
>> for creative ideas on tech details, practicality and style.
>
> Very pretty but I don’t see any technology or rather new technology.

I think technology doesn't have to be new to be interesting. Have you
never browsed _The Data Book_, AKA _100 Years of Bicycle Component and
Accessory Design_ ?

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31494534567&searchurl=kn%3D100%2Byears%2Bof%2Bbicycle%2Bcomponent%26sortby%3D17&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title1

> Seems designed for a look I’d assume such bikes don’t see wet days!

Hmm. When I see a bike with fenders, I assume it sees at least some wet
days.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 10/9/2023 4:53 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> Not all bicycle technology is of the "go a tiny bit faster" type.
>>>
>>> I liked the photos linked here
>>> https://velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/re-visiting-french-fender-day
>>> for creative ideas on tech details, practicality and style.
>>
>> Very pretty but I don’t see any technology or rather new technology.
>
> I think technology doesn't have to be new to be interesting. Have you
> never browsed _The Data Book_, AKA _100 Years of Bicycle Component and
> Accessory Design_ ?
>
> https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31494534567&searchurl=kn%3D100%2Byears%2Bof%2Bbicycle%2Bcomponent%26sortby%3D17&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title1
>
Sure get some of the older bikes from collectors/museums with riders in
costume in the park fairs occasionally and it’s interesting to see and chat
about them.
>> Seems designed for a look I’d assume such bikes don’t see wet days!
>
> Hmm. When I see a bike with fenders, I assume it sees at least some wet
> days.
>
If it’s utilitarian yes if the bike and parts including the fenders are so
clean and designed for a look? Not so much!

Roger Merriman

On 10/9/2023 7:33 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 10/9/2023 4:53 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> Not all bicycle technology is of the "go a tiny bit faster" type.
>>>>
>>>> I liked the photos linked here
>>>> https://velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/re-visiting-french-fender-day
>>>> for creative ideas on tech details, practicality and style.
>>>
>>> Very pretty but I don’t see any technology or rather new technology.
>>
>> I think technology doesn't have to be new to be interesting. Have you
>> never browsed _The Data Book_, AKA _100 Years of Bicycle Component and
>> Accessory Design_ ?
>>
>> https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31494534567&searchurl=kn%3D100%2Byears%2Bof%2Bbicycle%2Bcomponent%26sortby%3D17&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title1
>>
> Sure get some of the older bikes from collectors/museums with riders in
> costume in the park fairs occasionally and it’s interesting to see and chat
> about them.

Long ago, I read somewhere that some Japanese bike component
manufacturer gave copies of _The Data Book_ to its engineers to act as a
source of inspiration.

Along those lines: I think when someone is trying to invent something,
it's often productive to examine prior art.

>>> Seems designed for a look I’d assume such bikes don’t see wet days!
>>
>> Hmm. When I see a bike with fenders, I assume it sees at least some wet
>> days.
>>
> If it’s utilitarian yes if the bike and parts including the fenders are so
> clean and designed for a look? Not so much!

I admit, I knew one woman whose husband said she had fenders on her bike
only for aesthetic reasons. She liked the way they looked. But I doubt
that's a common motivation. It certainly isn't for me.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 23:33:40 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 10/9/2023 4:53 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> Not all bicycle technology is of the "go a tiny bit faster" type.
>>>>
>>>> I liked the photos linked here
>>>> https://velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/re-visiting-french-fender-day
>>>> for creative ideas on tech details, practicality and style.
>>>
>>> Very pretty but I don’t see any technology or rather new technology.
>>
>> I think technology doesn't have to be new to be interesting. Have you
>> never browsed _The Data Book_, AKA _100 Years of Bicycle Component and
>> Accessory Design_ ?
>>
>> https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31494534567&searchurl=kn%3D100%2Byears%2Bof%2Bbicycle%2Bcomponent%26sortby%3D17&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title1
>>
>Sure get some of the older bikes from collectors/museums with riders in
>costume in the park fairs occasionally and it’s interesting to see and chat
>about them.
>>> Seems designed for a look I’d assume such bikes don’t see wet days!
>>
>> Hmm. When I see a bike with fenders, I assume it sees at least some wet
>> days.
>>
>If it’s utilitarian yes if the bike and parts including the fenders are so
>clean and designed for a look? Not so much!
>
>Roger Merriman

The rear fender on my Catrike, and on many other similar trikes is
there to keep road debris off the back of my head and neck. I see some
trikes with front fenders, but I'll have none of that because I'm
really not afraid of getting wet. I have no need to stay clean and dry
so I can sit around after a ride in a greasy-spoon drinking coffee or
beer, eating junk food or pastries while gossiping with other riders.

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 10/9/2023 7:33 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 10/9/2023 4:53 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> Not all bicycle technology is of the "go a tiny bit faster" type.
>>>>>
>>>>> I liked the photos linked here
>>>>> https://velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/re-visiting-french-fender-day
>>>>> for creative ideas on tech details, practicality and style.
>>>>
>>>> Very pretty but I don’t see any technology or rather new technology.
>>>
>>> I think technology doesn't have to be new to be interesting. Have you
>>> never browsed _The Data Book_, AKA _100 Years of Bicycle Component and
>>> Accessory Design_ ?
>>>
>>> https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31494534567&searchurl=kn%3D100%2Byears%2Bof%2Bbicycle%2Bcomponent%26sortby%3D17&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title1
>>>
>> Sure get some of the older bikes from collectors/museums with riders in
>> costume in the park fairs occasionally and it’s interesting to see and chat
>> about them.
>
> Long ago, I read somewhere that some Japanese bike component
> manufacturer gave copies of _The Data Book_ to its engineers to act as a
> source of inspiration.
>
> Along those lines: I think when someone is trying to invent something,
> it's often productive to examine prior art.

Absolutely though I didn’t note anything different in the photos in terms
of technology bar the torch holder.
>
>>>> Seems designed for a look I’d assume such bikes don’t see wet days!
>>>
>>> Hmm. When I see a bike with fenders, I assume it sees at least some wet
>>> days.
>>>
>> If it’s utilitarian yes if the bike and parts including the fenders are so
>> clean and designed for a look? Not so much!
>
> I admit, I knew one woman whose husband said she had fenders on her bike
> only for aesthetic reasons. She liked the way they looked. But I doubt
> that's a common motivation. It certainly isn't for me.
>
All of those bikes are designed for a look rather than for a purpose for
most part which is fine but it is what they are.

Roger Merriman

Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 23:33:40 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 10/9/2023 4:53 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> Not all bicycle technology is of the "go a tiny bit faster" type.
>>>>>
>>>>> I liked the photos linked here
>>>>> https://velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/re-visiting-french-fender-day
>>>>> for creative ideas on tech details, practicality and style.
>>>>
>>>> Very pretty but I don’t see any technology or rather new technology.
>>>
>>> I think technology doesn't have to be new to be interesting. Have you
>>> never browsed _The Data Book_, AKA _100 Years of Bicycle Component and
>>> Accessory Design_ ?
>>>
>>> https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31494534567&searchurl=kn%3D100%2Byears%2Bof%2Bbicycle%2Bcomponent%26sortby%3D17&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title1
>>>
>> Sure get some of the older bikes from collectors/museums with riders in
>> costume in the park fairs occasionally and it’s interesting to see and chat
>> about them.
>>>> Seems designed for a look I’d assume such bikes don’t see wet days!
>>>
>>> Hmm. When I see a bike with fenders, I assume it sees at least some wet
>>> days.
>>>
>> If it’s utilitarian yes if the bike and parts including the fenders are so
>> clean and designed for a look? Not so much!
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> The rear fender on my Catrike, and on many other similar trikes is
> there to keep road debris off the back of my head and neck. I see some
> trikes with front fenders, but I'll have none of that because I'm
> really not afraid of getting wet. I have no need to stay clean and dry
> so I can sit around after a ride in a greasy-spoon drinking coffee or
> beer, eating junk food or pastries while gossiping with other riders.
>
>
I’d assume such places would be unbothered, most pubs/cafes out in the
Surrey hills claim muddle boots welcome as well most folks visiting will be
cycling or dog walking.

Roger Merriman

Am Mon, 9 Oct 2023 14:07:31 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:

>Not all bicycle technology is of the "go a tiny bit faster" type.
>
>I liked the photos linked here
>https://velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/re-visiting-french-fender-day
>for creative ideas on tech details, practicality and style.

We actually bought and used french bicycles with fenders, 45 years ago,
a Peugeot P65 for her and a Peugeot PR60/L for me.

<https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/tb/k26_p23.jpg>

These served us well for many years.

On of the reasons to buy these lightweight bicycles was indeed "go a
tiny bit faster", compared to what the local shop usually sold. My
randonneur style bike was based on a race bike frame, but equipped and
sold with StVZO conforming lights and fenders by Peugeot. Back racks
where added by the shop, on my request.

We even used both bikes to transport our children, much later.

<https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/fahrrad/pr60l02big.jpg>

As nice as these bicycles where, for those times - neither my wife nor I
would like to be forced to ride those bikes, anymore. Not all new
bicycle technology is good, but there _has_ been a lot of progress: LED
light, hub generators, hub and derailleur gears with a much larger
range, durable tires with lower rolling resistance, to name a few.

For reference, scanned marketing material from that time ...

<https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/fahrrad/peugeot/index.htm>

--
Bicycle helmets are the Bach flower remedies of traffic

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:19:33 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 23:33:40 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> On 10/9/2023 4:53 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Not all bicycle technology is of the "go a tiny bit faster" type.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I liked the photos linked here
>>>>>> https://velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/re-visiting-french-fender-day
>>>>>> for creative ideas on tech details, practicality and style.
>>>>>
>>>>> Very pretty but I don?t see any technology or rather new technology.
>>>>
>>>> I think technology doesn't have to be new to be interesting. Have you
>>>> never browsed _The Data Book_, AKA _100 Years of Bicycle Component and
>>>> Accessory Design_ ?
>>>>
>>>> https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31494534567&searchurl=kn%3D100%2Byears%2Bof%2Bbicycle%2Bcomponent%26sortby%3D17&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title1
>>>>
>>> Sure get some of the older bikes from collectors/museums with riders in
>>> costume in the park fairs occasionally and it?s interesting to see and chat
>>> about them.
>>>>> Seems designed for a look I?d assume such bikes don?t see wet days!
>>>>
>>>> Hmm. When I see a bike with fenders, I assume it sees at least some wet
>>>> days.
>>>>
>>> If it?s utilitarian yes if the bike and parts including the fenders are so
>>> clean and designed for a look? Not so much!
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> The rear fender on my Catrike, and on many other similar trikes is
>> there to keep road debris off the back of my head and neck. I see some
>> trikes with front fenders, but I'll have none of that because I'm
>> really not afraid of getting wet. I have no need to stay clean and dry
>> so I can sit around after a ride in a greasy-spoon drinking coffee or
>> beer, eating junk food or pastries while gossiping with other riders.
>>
>>
>I’d assume such places would be unbothered, most pubs/cafes out in the
>Surrey hills claim muddle boots welcome as well most folks visiting will be
>cycling or dog walking.
>
>Roger Merriman

Perhaps, I don't know. It's not something I've ever done and most
likely will never do. I prefer to sit by myself on the tailgate of my
truck and have a beer and an orange.

On 10/10/2023 3:37 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> Am Mon, 9 Oct 2023 14:07:31 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:
>
>> Not all bicycle technology is of the "go a tiny bit faster" type.
>>
>> I liked the photos linked here
>> https://velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/re-visiting-french-fender-day
>> for creative ideas on tech details, practicality and style.
>
> We actually bought and used french bicycles with fenders, 45 years ago,
> a Peugeot P65 for her and a Peugeot PR60/L for me.
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/tb/k26_p23.jpg>
>
> These served us well for many years.
>
> On of the reasons to buy these lightweight bicycles was indeed "go a
> tiny bit faster", compared to what the local shop usually sold. My
> randonneur style bike was based on a race bike frame, but equipped and
> sold with StVZO conforming lights and fenders by Peugeot. Back racks
> where added by the shop, on my request.
>
> We even used both bikes to transport our children, much later.
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/fahrrad/pr60l02big.jpg>
>
>
> As nice as these bicycles where, for those times - neither my wife nor I
> would like to be forced to ride those bikes, anymore. Not all new
> bicycle technology is good, but there _has_ been a lot of progress: LED
> light, hub generators, hub and derailleur gears with a much larger
> range, durable tires with lower rolling resistance, to name a few.
>
>
> For reference, scanned marketing material from that time ...
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/fahrrad/peugeot/index.htm>
>

We sold these when they were available:
https://obancycles.fr/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/02-4-1280x857.jpg

Much lighter than the comparable Raleigh models.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 10/10/2023 4:37 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>
> As nice as these bicycles where, for those times - neither my wife nor I
> would like to be forced to ride those bikes, anymore. Not all new
> bicycle technology is good, but there _has_ been a lot of progress: LED
> light, hub generators, hub and derailleur gears with a much larger
> range, durable tires with lower rolling resistance, to name a few.

Certainly there's been practical progress since the mid-1900s. Besides
your list, I'd add slant parallelogram derailleurs and specially shaped
rear cog teeth, spoked wheels that are much more reliable, rim brakes
that are much better, modern racks that put the ancient Pletschers to
shame, bags that are much closer to waterproof, headsets that are much
easier to adjust...

It's still fun for me to look at creativity from long ago.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Am Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:21:54 -0500 schrieb AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>:

>On 10/10/2023 3:37 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>> Am Mon, 9 Oct 2023 14:07:31 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:
>>
>>> Not all bicycle technology is of the "go a tiny bit faster" type.
>>>
>>> I liked the photos linked here
>>> https://velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/re-visiting-french-fender-day
>>> for creative ideas on tech details, practicality and style.
>>
>> We actually bought and used french bicycles with fenders, 45 years ago,
>> a Peugeot P65 for her and a Peugeot PR60/L for me.
>>
>> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/tb/k26_p23.jpg>
>>
>> These served us well for many years.
>>
>> On of the reasons to buy these lightweight bicycles was indeed "go a
>> tiny bit faster", compared to what the local shop usually sold. My
>> randonneur style bike was based on a race bike frame, but equipped and
>> sold with StVZO conforming lights and fenders by Peugeot. Back racks
>> where added by the shop, on my request.
>>
>> We even used both bikes to transport our children, much later.
>>
>> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/fahrrad/pr60l02big.jpg>
>>
>>
>> As nice as these bicycles where, for those times - neither my wife nor I
>> would like to be forced to ride those bikes, anymore. Not all new
>> bicycle technology is good, but there _has_ been a lot of progress: LED
>> light, hub generators, hub and derailleur gears with a much larger
>> range, durable tires with lower rolling resistance, to name a few.
>>
>>
>> For reference, scanned marketing material from that time ...
>>
>> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/fahrrad/peugeot/index.htm>
>>
>
>We sold these when they were available:
>https://obancycles.fr/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/02-4-1280x857.jpg
>
>Much lighter than the comparable Raleigh models.

Looks like cross between this
<https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/bild12a.jpg>
and this
<https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/hollandrad/prophete-hollandrad.jpg>

The first bicycle shown - a Dutch bicycle ("Hollandrad") from Sparta -
was used by me for commuting to work between 1992 and 1995, but in the
following years, after switching to a road bike, I only used it for
short shopping trips. I still own the much newer cheap Dutch bike from
Prophete. This was only bought for short distance trips. I'm currently
riding one of the two bikes I built in April.

<https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20230810/P1069511.jpg>

My bike is shown on the right, my wife's bike on the left, the one with
the red handlebar tape.

--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 10/10/2023 4:37 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>>
>> As nice as these bicycles where, for those times - neither my wife nor I
>> would like to be forced to ride those bikes, anymore. Not all new
>> bicycle technology is good, but there _has_ been a lot of progress: LED
>> light, hub generators, hub and derailleur gears with a much larger
>> range, durable tires with lower rolling resistance, to name a few.
>
> Certainly there's been practical progress since the mid-1900s. Besides
> your list, I'd add slant parallelogram derailleurs and specially shaped
> rear cog teeth, spoked wheels that are much more reliable, rim brakes
> that are much better, modern racks that put the ancient Pletschers to
> shame, bags that are much closer to waterproof, headsets that are much
> easier to adjust...
>
I’d say that 21st century road bikes have had a jump in performance and
more focus on comfort and generally being more adaptable ie modern road
bike with 30mm tires could of done 80% of my Gravel ride today around the
South Downs, with out too much babying the bike. The other 20% would depend
on rider abilities, and luck in terms of flint and so on, I suspect the
steep plowed field would be hike a bike though!

But wider tires and more appropriate gearing etc have made modern road
bikes more adaptable. A older bike with 23/25 you’d pinch flat or end up
hike a bike multiple sections.

No idea how long they have been around but the ortlieb panniers I have are
waterproof and reliable so, comfortable with laptops etc in any down pour!
They only last a few years though at least with my rough handling,
essentially they get scraped on stuff and does eventually wear thin and
become porous!
> It's still fun for me to look at creativity from long ago.
>
Some of those bikes are modern just had similar French style guards ie at
least two gravel/road bikes

Roger Merriman

On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 18:04:58 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 10/9/2023 4:53 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> Not all bicycle technology is of the "go a tiny bit faster" type.
>>>
>>> I liked the photos linked here
>>> https://velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/re-visiting-french-fender-day
>>> for creative ideas on tech details, practicality and style.
>>
>> Very pretty but I don’t see any technology or rather new technology.
>
>I think technology doesn't have to be new to be interesting. Have you
>never browsed _The Data Book_, AKA _100 Years of Bicycle Component and
>Accessory Design_ ?
>
>https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31494534567

I bought the book (2nd edition) and didn't like it. The problem is
that it's almost all illustrations (i.e. drawings) of bicycle
components. No names, no part numbers, no description, no indication
how the parts move, and no clue what bicycles they were used on. On
most pages, all that appears is the year. Some of the early pages
include copies of advertisements, which do provide some names and
numbers. Where there are titles or descriptions, they're mostly in
French. The bulk of the book is illustrations.

I was hoping for some ingenuous and complex mechanisms. There are a
few, but most of what I find in the book are fairly simple.

The earliest page is from 1817-1822 and the last is from 1959, which
seems a bit more than 100 years.

>> Seems designed for a look I’d assume such bikes don’t see wet days!
>
>Hmm. When I see a bike with fenders, I assume it sees at least some wet
>days.

Or, someone likes to ride through a swamp, ride through oil puddles or
doesn't like road debris pitched upwards.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 10/10/2023 2:50 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> Certainly there's been practical progress since the mid-1900s. Besides
>> your list, I'd add slant parallelogram derailleurs and specially shaped
>> rear cog teeth, spoked wheels that are much more reliable, rim brakes
>> that are much better, modern racks that put the ancient Pletschers to
>> shame, bags that are much closer to waterproof, headsets that are much
>> easier to adjust...
>>
> I’d say that 21st century road bikes have had a jump in performance and
> more focus on comfort and generally being more adaptable ie modern road
> bike with 30mm tires could of done 80% of my Gravel ride today around the
> South Downs, with out too much babying the bike. The other 20% would depend
> on rider abilities, and luck in terms of flint and so on, I suspect the
> steep plowed field would be hike a bike though!
>
> But wider tires and more appropriate gearing etc have made modern road
> bikes more adaptable. A older bike with 23/25 you’d pinch flat or end up
> hike a bike multiple sections.

I was never a fan of 23mm or 25mm tires. I've long argued here against
the close clearance frames that limited riders to those choices. I'm not
the reason the fashion has moved to wider tires and more frame
clearance, but I approve.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 10/10/2023 7:01 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 18:04:58 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 10/9/2023 4:53 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> Not all bicycle technology is of the "go a tiny bit faster" type.
>>>>
>>>> I liked the photos linked here
>>>> https://velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/re-visiting-french-fender-day
>>>> for creative ideas on tech details, practicality and style.
>>>
>>> Very pretty but I don’t see any technology or rather new technology.
>>
>> I think technology doesn't have to be new to be interesting. Have you
>> never browsed _The Data Book_, AKA _100 Years of Bicycle Component and
>> Accessory Design_ ?
>>
>> https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31494534567
>
> I bought the book (2nd edition) and didn't like it. The problem is
> that it's almost all illustrations (i.e. drawings) of bicycle
> components. No names, no part numbers, no description, no indication
> how the parts move, and no clue what bicycles they were used on. On
> most pages, all that appears is the year. Some of the early pages
> include copies of advertisements, which do provide some names and
> numbers. Where there are titles or descriptions, they're mostly in
> French. The bulk of the book is illustrations.

Yes, it is almost all graphics, many of them drawings by Daniel Rebour.
I still find them interesting and pleasing.

Many of the dozens of brake designs can work as mechanical puzzles - as
in "How the heck did that thing work?"

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 10/10/2023 7:24 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 10/10/2023 2:50 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Certainly there's been practical progress since the
>>> mid-1900s. Besides
>>> your list, I'd add slant parallelogram derailleurs and
>>> specially shaped
>>> rear cog teeth, spoked wheels that are much more
>>> reliable, rim brakes
>>> that are much better, modern racks that put the ancient
>>> Pletschers to
>>> shame, bags that are much closer to waterproof, headsets
>>> that are much
>>> easier to adjust...
>>>
>> I’d say that 21st century road bikes have had a jump in
>> performance and
>> more focus on comfort and generally being more adaptable
>> ie modern road
>> bike with 30mm tires could of done 80% of my Gravel ride
>> today around the
>> South Downs, with out too much babying the bike. The other
>> 20% would depend
>> on rider abilities, and luck in terms of flint and so on,
>> I suspect the
>> steep plowed field would be hike a bike though!
>>
>> But wider tires and more appropriate gearing etc have made
>> modern road
>> bikes more adaptable. A older bike with 23/25 you’d pinch
>> flat or end up
>> hike a bike multiple sections.
>
> I was never a fan of 23mm or 25mm tires. I've long argued
> here against the close clearance frames that limited riders
> to those choices. I'm not the reason the fashion has moved
> to wider tires and more frame clearance, but I approve.
>

Fine with me, you ought to ride what you like, but I'll stay
with my 22mm tubs thanks.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 20:51:24 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 10/10/2023 7:24 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 10/10/2023 2:50 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Certainly there's been practical progress since the
>>>> mid-1900s. Besides
>>>> your list, I'd add slant parallelogram derailleurs and
>>>> specially shaped
>>>> rear cog teeth, spoked wheels that are much more
>>>> reliable, rim brakes
>>>> that are much better, modern racks that put the ancient
>>>> Pletschers to
>>>> shame, bags that are much closer to waterproof, headsets
>>>> that are much
>>>> easier to adjust...
>>>>
>>> I’d say that 21st century road bikes have had a jump in
>>> performance and
>>> more focus on comfort and generally being more adaptable
>>> ie modern road
>>> bike with 30mm tires could of done 80% of my Gravel ride
>>> today around the
>>> South Downs, with out too much babying the bike. The other
>>> 20% would depend
>>> on rider abilities, and luck in terms of flint and so on,
>>> I suspect the
>>> steep plowed field would be hike a bike though!
>>>
>>> But wider tires and more appropriate gearing etc have made
>>> modern road
>>> bikes more adaptable. A older bike with 23/25 you’d pinch
>>> flat or end up
>>> hike a bike multiple sections.
>>
>> I was never a fan of 23mm or 25mm tires. I've long argued
>> here against the close clearance frames that limited riders
>> to those choices. I'm not the reason the fashion has moved
>> to wider tires and more frame clearance, but I approve.
>>
>
>Fine with me, you ought to ride what you like, but I'll stay
>with my 22mm tubs thanks.

I stopped using Tubular's when I bought a bike that had conventional
tube tires. I had given the tubular bike to a nephew. Probably if I'd
kept the older bike I'd still be riding tubular's as I never had any
problems with them and with two pre-glued tires under the seat "fixing
a flat" was much faster and easier then with "modern tires" (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.