in standard:

F = q*E,

but what is it when the charge q moves very fast across field E?

----q------> v = 0.6c
F | for E is 90 degs to v, for simplicity
E = const
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|||||||||||||||||||||||||

Le 01/08/2022 à 20:03, Alsor a écrit :
> in standard:
>
> F = q*E,
>
> but what is it when the charge q moves very fast across field E?
>
> ----q------> v = 0.6c
> F | for E is 90 degs to v, for simplicity
> E = const
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> |||||||||||||||||||||||||

<http://news2.nemoweb.net/jntp?rzkustIUH8mTVlCbyT2Pt3bMn1s@jntp/Data.Media:1>

At each instant the position in R will not be the same as in R'.

R.H.

On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 11:03:16 AM UTC-7, Alsor wrote:
> in standard:
>
> F = q*E,
>
> but what is it when the charge q moves very fast across field E?
>
> ----q------> v = 0.6c
> F | for E is 90 degs to v, for simplicity
> E = const
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> |||||||||||||||||||||||||
The relativistic expression of the Lorentz force is F=q(\vec{E}+\vec{v} \cross \vec{B})

Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> wrote:

> in standard:
>
> F = q*E,
>
> but what is it when the charge q moves very fast across field E?
>
> ----q------> v = 0.6c
> F | for E is 90 degs to v, for simplicity
> E = const
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> |||||||||||||||||||||||||

You obtain the 4-force by contracting the 4-velocity
into the electromagnetic tensor.
If you want something else you have to explain
what your 'force' is going to be,

Jan

On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:03:16 PM UTC+1, Alsor wrote:
> in standard:
>
> F = q*E,
>
> but what is it when the charge q moves very fast across field E?
>
> ----q------> v = 0.6c
> F | for E is 90 degs to v, for simplicity
> E = const
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> |||||||||||||||||||||||||

It's still F = q*E; but the effect on the charge is d/dt (gamma *m*v) = F, where gamma = 1/sqrt( 1 - (v/c)^2)
For v << c, gamma = 1 so this becomes the more familiar d/dt (mv) = ma = F

Larry

On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 3:26:57 PM UTC-7, larryh...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:03:16 PM UTC+1, Alsor wrote:
> > in standard:
> >
> > F = q*E,
> >
> > but what is it when the charge q moves very fast across field E?
> >
> > ----q------> v = 0.6c
> > F | for E is 90 degs to v, for simplicity
> > E = const
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > |||||||||||||||||||||||||
> It's still F = q*E; but the effect on the charge is d/dt (gamma *m*v) = F, where gamma = 1/sqrt( 1 - (v/c)^2)
> For v << c, gamma = 1 so this becomes the more familiar d/dt (mv) = ma = F
>
> Larry

How fast does a surface electron move? As electricity to jump to the next atom?
How fast does an electron get pushed?
If it doesn't get pushed it won't have motion of any kind including electricity.
You can be still in an atomic shell but not in an orbital.

Mitchell Raemsch

poniedziałek, 1 sierpnia 2022 o 23:11:23 UTC+2 J. J. Lodder napisał(a):
> Alsor <also...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > in standard:
> >
> > F = q*E,
> >
> > but what is it when the charge q moves very fast across field E?
> >
> > ----q------> v = 0.6c
> > F | for E is 90 degs to v, for simplicity
> > E = const
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > |||||||||||||||||||||||||
> You obtain the 4-force by contracting the 4-velocity
> into the electromagnetic tensor.
> If you want something else you have to explain
> what your 'force' is going to be,
>
> Jan

What is experimental result with fast electrons, crossing E field?

But for very smal deflection only - say: 1mm for 1m..
because for big one, the mass grows, velocity too, so the result is too complicated - useless.

On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 7:31:35 AM UTC-7, Alsor wrote:
> poniedziałek, 1 sierpnia 2022 o 23:11:23 UTC+2 J. J. Lodder napisał(a):
> > Alsor <also...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > in standard:
> > >
> > > F = q*E,
> > >
> > > but what is it when the charge q moves very fast across field E?
> > >
> > > ----q------> v = 0.6c
> > > F | for E is 90 degs to v, for simplicity
> > > E = const
> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > |||||||||||||||||||||||||
> > You obtain the 4-force by contracting the 4-velocity
> > into the electromagnetic tensor.
> > If you want something else you have to explain
> > what your 'force' is going to be,
> >
> > Jan
> What is experimental result with fast electrons, crossing E field?
>

You were told:

qE=d/dt(mv*gamma)

This is one of the equations that governs particle accelerators, CRT tubes, etc.

> But for very smal deflection only - say: 1mm for 1m..
> because for big one, the mass grows, velocity too, so the result is too complicated - useless.

Only for imbeciles like you, Sorokin

wtorek, 2 sierpnia 2022 o 17:18:00 UTC+2 Dono. napisał(a):
> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 7:31:35 AM UTC-7, Alsor wrote:
> > poniedziałek, 1 sierpnia 2022 o 23:11:23 UTC+2 J. J. Lodder napisał(a):
> > > Alsor <also...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > in standard:
> > > >
> > > > F = q*E,
> > > >
> > > > but what is it when the charge q moves very fast across field E?
> > > >
> > > > ----q------> v = 0.6c
> > > > F | for E is 90 degs to v, for simplicity
> > > > E = const
> > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > > |||||||||||||||||||||||||
> > > You obtain the 4-force by contracting the 4-velocity
> > > into the electromagnetic tensor.
> > > If you want something else you have to explain
> > > what your 'force' is going to be,
> > >
> > > Jan
> > What is experimental result with fast electrons, crossing E field?
> >
> You were told:
>
> qE=d/dt(mv*gamma)

It is too naive.

The force is bigger rather less:
1 + v^2/c^2,

because this is a standard Maxwell solution.

but an acceleration is reduced gamma times, due to bigger mass of moving particle... etc.

hence:
B = v/c^2 E, this is a standard base for Lorentz Force...

what gives force:
F = vB = v^2/c^2 E, for moving charge by field E...

Finally:
F = eE, is a static version only,
but for moving charge the forces is bigger -
the B field is just an additional 'tidal force', due to motion by field.

Special additional question!:
starlight aberration produces blue shift of energy or red?
Try to notice this...

On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 9:31:03 AM UTC-7, Alsor wrote:
> wtorek, 2 sierpnia 2022 o 17:18:00 UTC+2 Dono. napisał(a):
> > On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 7:31:35 AM UTC-7, Alsor wrote:
> > > poniedziałek, 1 sierpnia 2022 o 23:11:23 UTC+2 J. J. Lodder napisał(a):
> > > > Alsor <also...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > in standard:
> > > > >
> > > > > F = q*E,
> > > > >
> > > > > but what is it when the charge q moves very fast across field E?
> > > > >
> > > > > ----q------> v = 0.6c
> > > > > F | for E is 90 degs to v, for simplicity
> > > > > E = const
> > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > > > |||||||||||||||||||||||||
> > > > You obtain the 4-force by contracting the 4-velocity
> > > > into the electromagnetic tensor.
> > > > If you want something else you have to explain
> > > > what your 'force' is going to be,
> > > >
> > > > Jan
> > > What is experimental result with fast electrons, crossing E field?
> > >
> > You were told:
> >
> > qE=d/dt(mv*gamma)
> It is too naive.
>
No, it is correct. You are too imbecile to accept it. ..

wtorek, 2 sierpnia 2022 o 18:56:14 UTC+2 Dono. napisał(a):
> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 9:31:03 AM UTC-7, Alsor wrote:
> > wtorek, 2 sierpnia 2022 o 17:18:00 UTC+2 Dono. napisał(a):
> > > On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 7:31:35 AM UTC-7, Alsor wrote:
> > > > poniedziałek, 1 sierpnia 2022 o 23:11:23 UTC+2 J. J. Lodder napisał(a):
> > > > > Alsor <also...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > in standard:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > F = q*E,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > but what is it when the charge q moves very fast across field E?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----q------> v = 0.6c
> > > > > > F | for E is 90 degs to v, for simplicity
> > > > > > E = const
> > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > > > > |||||||||||||||||||||||||
> > > > > You obtain the 4-force by contracting the 4-velocity
> > > > > into the electromagnetic tensor.
> > > > > If you want something else you have to explain
> > > > > what your 'force' is going to be,
> > > > >
> > > > > Jan
> > > > What is experimental result with fast electrons, crossing E field?
> > > >
> > > You were told:
> > >
> > > qE=d/dt(mv*gamma)
> > It is too naive.
> >
> No, it is correct. You are too imbecile to accept it. ..

Really?

What is the energy received by observer in due to the aberration of starlight:
- more
- less
- the same

try again, maybe your brain start up, last once.

On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 12:47:49 PM UTC-7, Alsor wrote:
> wtorek, 2 sierpnia 2022 o 18:56:14 UTC+2 Dono. napisał(a):
> > On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 9:31:03 AM UTC-7, Alsor wrote:
> > > wtorek, 2 sierpnia 2022 o 17:18:00 UTC+2 Dono. napisał(a):
> > > > On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 7:31:35 AM UTC-7, Alsor wrote:
> > > > > poniedziałek, 1 sierpnia 2022 o 23:11:23 UTC+2 J. J. Lodder napisał(a):
> > > > > > Alsor <also...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > in standard:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > F = q*E,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > but what is it when the charge q moves very fast across field E?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----q------> v = 0.6c
> > > > > > > F | for E is 90 degs to v, for simplicity
> > > > > > > E = const
> > > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > > > > > |||||||||||||||||||||||||
> > > > > > You obtain the 4-force by contracting the 4-velocity
> > > > > > into the electromagnetic tensor.
> > > > > > If you want something else you have to explain
> > > > > > what your 'force' is going to be,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jan
> > > > > What is experimental result with fast electrons, crossing E field?
> > > > >
> > > > You were told:
> > > >
> > > > qE=d/dt(mv*gamma)
> > > It is too naive.
> > >
> > No, it is correct. You are too imbecile to accept it. ..
> Really?
>

Yep, really. Sorokin, you are an imbecile and there is no cure for your imbecility.

On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 5:50:22 PM UTC-3, Dono. wrote:

<snip>

> The relativistic expression of the Lorentz force is F=q(\vec{E}+\vec{v} \cross \vec{B})

No, ignorant cretin, it's not the relativistic expression of the Lorentz force what you wrote.

It's just the Lorentz force, as introduced by him in 1895, and used in 1898 by J.J. Thomsom on his discovery
of the electrons as charged particles that formed the cathode rays (solving a 50 years mystery).

Fucking romanian gypsy.

On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:51:39 PM UTC-7, Richard Hertz wrote:
> On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 5:50:22 PM UTC-3, Dono. wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > The relativistic expression of the Lorentz force is F=q(\vec{E}+\vec{v} \cross \vec{B})
> it's not the relativistic expression of the Lorentz force what you wrote.
>

Turns out, it is, odious piece of kapo shit. Enjoy your newly torn asshole.

On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 9:53:54 PM UTC-3, Dono. wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:51:39 PM UTC-7, Richard Hertz wrote:
> > On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 5:50:22 PM UTC-3, Dono. wrote:

<snip>

IGNORANT, FILTHY ROMANIAN GYPSY. You are so full of SHIT that you changed my comment, deleting what is now in UPPERCASE:

> > NO, IGNORANT CRETIN, it's not the relativistic expression of the Lorentz force what you wrote.

It's just an example of how deep did you fail in the human scale, LIAR and DECEIVER!

Even when you probably will not read the academical explanation of Lorentz force, which predated his relativity by 9 years,
I still post this link and excerpts:

https://www.britannica.com/science/Lorentz-force
Lorentz force

Lorentz force, the force exerted on a charged particle q moving with velocity v through an electric field E and magnetic field B.
The entire electromagnetic force F on the charged particle is called the Lorentz force (after the Dutch physicist Hendrik A. Lorentz)
and is given by

F = qE + qv × B.

The first term is contributed by the electric field. The second term is the magnetic force and has a direction perpendicular to both the velocity and the magnetic field. The magnetic force is proportional to q and to the magnitude of the vector cross product v × B. In terms of the angle ϕ between v and B, the magnitude of the force equals qvB sin ϕ. An interesting result of the Lorentz force is the motion of a charged particle in a uniform magnetic field. If v is perpendicular to B (i.e., with the angle ϕ between v and B of 90°), the particle will follow a circular trajectory with a radius of r = mv/qB. If the angle ϕ is less than 90°, the particle orbit will be a helix with an axis parallel to the field lines. If ϕ is zero, there will be no magnetic force on the particle, which will continue to move undeflected along the field lines.

Charged particle accelerators like cyclotrons make use of the fact that particles move in a circular orbit when v and B are at right angles. For each revolution, a carefully timed electric field gives the particles additional kinetic energy, which makes them travel in increasingly larger orbits. When the particles have acquired the desired energy, they are extracted and used in a number of different ways, from studies of subatomic particles to the medical treatment of cancer.

On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 10:59:16 PM UTC-7, odious kapo Richard Hertz ate shit once again:

> F = qE + qv × B.

So, you took it up the ass once again. The above expression is what I posted earlier, the KNOWN form of the RELATIVISTIC Lorentz force.

On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:51:39 PM UTC-7, Richard Hertz wrote:
> On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 5:50:22 PM UTC-3, Dono. wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > The relativistic expression of the Lorentz force is F=q(\vec{E}+\vec{v} \cross \vec{B})
> No, ignorant cretin, it's not the relativistic expression of the Lorentz force what you wrote.
>
> It's just the Lorentz force,

The expression is valid in relativity, contrary to your utterly crankish screeches. Enjoy your newly ripped asshole, kapo piece of shit.

środa, 3 sierpnia 2022 o 07:59:16 UTC+2 Richard Hertz napisał(a):
> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 9:53:54 PM UTC-3, Dono. wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:51:39 PM UTC-7, Richard Hertz wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 5:50:22 PM UTC-3, Dono. wrote:
>
> <snip>
> IGNORANT, FILTHY ROMANIAN GYPSY. You are so full of SHIT that you changed my comment, deleting what is now in UPPERCASE:
>
> > > NO, IGNORANT CRETIN, it's not the relativistic expression of the Lorentz force what you wrote.
>
> It's just an example of how deep did you fail in the human scale, LIAR and DECEIVER!
>
> Even when you probably will not read the academical explanation of Lorentz force, which predated his relativity by 9 years,
> I still post this link and excerpts:
>
> https://www.britannica.com/science/Lorentz-force
> Lorentz force
>
> Lorentz force, the force exerted on a charged particle q moving with velocity v through an electric field E and magnetic field B.
> The entire electromagnetic force F on the charged particle is called the Lorentz force (after the Dutch physicist Hendrik A. Lorentz)
> and is given by
>
> F = qE + qv × B.
>
> The first term is contributed by the electric field. The second term is the magnetic force and has a direction perpendicular to both the velocity and the magnetic field. The magnetic force is proportional to q and to the magnitude of the vector cross product v × B. In terms of the angle ϕ between v and B, the magnitude of the force equals qvB sin ϕ. An interesting result of the Lorentz force is the motion of a charged particle in a uniform magnetic field. If v is perpendicular to B (i.e., with the angle ϕ between v and B of 90°), the particle will follow a circular trajectory with a radius of r = mv/qB. If the angle ϕ is less than 90°, the particle orbit will be a helix with an axis parallel to the field lines. If ϕ is zero, there will be no magnetic force on the particle, which will continue to move undeflected along the field lines.
>
> Charged particle accelerators like cyclotrons make use of the fact that particles move in a circular orbit when v and B are at right angles. For each revolution, a carefully timed electric field gives the particles additional kinetic energy, which makes them travel in increasingly larger orbits. When the particles have acquired the desired energy, they are extracted and used in a number of different ways, from studies of subatomic particles to the medical treatment of cancer.

Very nice...

what is a force... for moving charge across static E field?

- the same
- bigger
- lower
- undefined

F = e* ?

On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 11:17:09 AM UTC-3, Dono. wrote:

> > F = qE + qv × B.
> So, you took it up the ass once again. The above expression is what I posted earlier, the KNOWN form of the RELATIVISTIC Lorentz force.

Dono/sa_ge: You are SO DEGENERATE, so vicious and so MENTALLY SICK that you wouldn't have any problem claiming
that Newton-Euler F = m.a is also a RELATIVISTIC formula for the Force acting on any mass.

This behavior of yours comes with the FILTHY, DEGENERATE communist method of advancing by brainwashing REWRITING the history,
and DOMINATING any outlet of the MSM.

Because you are a fucking communist romanian gypsy, who actually work IN DISGUISE of your credentials and disgusting past.

And you choose relativity, Mr. EE, as a vehicle to DISSEMINATE, in a religious way, what you were ORDERED to do by your masters:
Deceive, lie, confuse, change facts, persist, never give up, spread falsehood, be vindictive, OBEY, worship relativity, bully non-relativists,
adopt LGTBQ+ dogmas and "proud for using your orifices against Nature mandates", TRY to learn Mathematica SW tool, harass people
in a permanent way so to make them desist from disputing your fucking religion, worship Einstein THREE TIMES A DAY, etc.

Try now to convince others that THIS are also RELATIVISTIC formulae, MF POS:

E = h.f
V = I.R
p = m.v
F = G m₁ m₂/r²
v = x/t
P.V = n.R.T

On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 10:55:18 AM UTC-7, odious Richard Hertz wrote:
<shit eating by Richard Hertz>
> Try now to convince others that THIS are also RELATIVISTIC formulae:
>
> E = h.f
It sure is.
So is F=qE, F=q(E+vxB). Enjoy yyour freshly ripped asshole.

Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:

[garbage]

> Try now to convince others that THIS are also RELATIVISTIC formulae, MF POS:
>
> E = h.f

Yes. (time component of 4-vector)

> V = I.R

N.A
..

> p = m.v

Yes. 4-vector eqn.

> F = G m? m?/r?

No.

> v = x/t

Yes. 4-vector diff. eqn. And t should be \tau

> P.V = n.R.T

N.A.

Jan