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tech / sci.electronics.design / Re: OT: DJI or similar drones

SubjectAuthor
* Re: OT: DJI or similar dronesJan Panteltje
+- Re: OT: DJI or similar dronesJohn Doe
+- Re: OT: DJI or similar dronesJan Panteltje
+- Re: OT: DJI or similar dronesJan Panteltje
`* Re: OT: DJI or similar dronesJan Panteltje
 `* Re: OT: DJI or similar dronesJan Panteltje
  `- Re: OT: DJI or similar dronesJan Panteltje

1
Re: OT: DJI or similar drones

<t2n2e4$q2h$1@dont-email.me>

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From: pNaonStp...@yahoo.com (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: OT: DJI or similar drones
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 16:09:47 GMT
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 16:09 UTC

On a sunny day (Thu, 7 Apr 2022 15:31:20 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote in <t2n048$9nh$1@dont-email.me>:

>I thought DJI was expensive, but Autel is almost twice the price for an
>entry-level drone. The less expensive drone makers use C.R.A.P. technology
>and other weirdness like not selling additional propellers and whatever
>other parts. Can't believe how cheap lesser brand controllers are compared
>to DJI. The phone holder on even $300 drones is a single plastic plunger
>with a simple spring inside the controller for tension! You can hear the
>spring creaking.
>
>DJI messed up the firmware or software for the Mini 2, so I'm waiting to
>get back into FPV flight with that one.
>
>
>
>https://www.ebay.com/itm/175008269834

Depends on what you want, I would not want that, only smartphone app control?
I have this:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/quadcopter/index.html
added some stuff to it, auto pilot, HUD.
Not been flying here, drone flights are prohibited here close to the mil airport.
No idea if it still available and at what price.

Re: OT: DJI or similar drones

<t2nhhg$fj7$2@dont-email.me>

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From: always.l...@message.header (John Doe)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: OT: DJI or similar drones
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 20:28:32 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: John Doe - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 20:28 UTC

But I can try with some ordinary large capacitor first.

Re: OT: DJI or similar drones

<t2ogo2$ps4$1@dont-email.me>

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From: pNaonStp...@yahoo.com (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: OT: DJI or similar drones
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2022 05:20:06 GMT
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 05:20 UTC

On a sunny day (Thu, 7 Apr 2022 20:14:55 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote in <t2ngnv$g2k$1@dont-email.me>:

>Thinking about using the stock battery circuit, putting a capacitor across
>its power pins, with a battery plug out from that, so batteries can be
>swapped on that plug without trashing the battery circuit. Assuming the
>capacitor holds up during the swap, there would be a big jump in voltage
>when the new battery is plugged in, but maybe that wouldn't trash the
>circuit. Don't know if keeping that circuit plugged into the drone, or
>not, would matter while swapping batteries at the plug point.
>
>I remember long ago looking at digi-key capacitors and seeing gold
>capacitors, like 1 farad, but a quick search shows no such results.
>Capacitor weight or size might be an issue, too.

Those are called 'super capacitors' or 'ultra capacitors' it seems, there is a youtube video of a guy starting his car with one.,
https://www.ebay.com/b/Supercapacitor-Ultracapacitor-Industrial-Capacitors/4662/bn_114823789

Re: OT: DJI or similar drones

<t2ogqi$r6a$1@dont-email.me>

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From: pNaonStp...@yahoo.com (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: OT: DJI or similar drones
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2022 05:21:22 GMT
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 05:21 UTC

On a sunny day (Thu, 7 Apr 2022 20:27:47 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote in <t2nhg3$fj7$1@dont-email.me>:

>https://industrial.panasonic.com/ww/products/pt/edlc-wound-type
>
>That might be related to what I recall. Those gold capacitors have been
>discontinued. As I recall, they looked much stubbier than those.
>
>Need high capacity (for removing and replacing a battery, don't know what
>the current is), at least 10 V, small and light as possible.

Super capacitors usualy have low voltage ratings, maybe some in series?

Re: OT: DJI or similar drones

<t2ohj3$946$1@dont-email.me>

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From: pNaonStp...@yahoo.com (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: OT: DJI or similar drones
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2022 05:34:37 GMT
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 05:34 UTC

On a sunny day (Thu, 7 Apr 2022 21:47:08 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote in <t2nm4s$g0g$1@dont-email.me>:

>Or maybe a tiny battery with a diode and maybe a resistor.
>Would be nice to know the input impedance, bias current, whatever.

Diode should work, I have done that as backup in an other project,
but you lose a few hundred millivolts.
Use a Schottky diode perhaps, those have very low voltage drops.

Re: OT: DJI or similar drones

<t2r9td$fdq$1@dont-email.me>

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From: pNaonStp...@yahoo.com (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: OT: DJI or similar drones
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2022 06:41:59 GMT
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Sat, 9 Apr 2022 06:41 UTC

On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 18:40:14 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote in <t2pvie$lv4$1@dont-email.me>:

>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
>> John Doe wrote:
>>
>>> Or maybe a tiny battery with a diode and maybe a resistor. Would be
>>> nice to know the input impedance, bias current, whatever.
>>
>> Diode should work, I have done that as backup in an other project, but
>> you lose a few hundred millivolts.
>
>How long without the drone battery?

No idea, my drone uses 10 amps at 7.4V (2 cells)
http://panteltje.com/pub/hubsan_h501s_current_test_full_throttle_IMG_6290.JPG
http://panteltje.com/pub/hubsan_h501S_current_test_idle_IMG_6281.JPG

>This would be no more than seconds, while swapping batteries.

>> Use a Schottky diode perhaps, those have very low voltage drops.
>
>The reverse leakage current won't destroy a CR3032 (or smaller) battery?
>
>The drone battery starts at about 14 V.

So almost 1 A idle...
A coin battery won't do that, a small 2 cell (or 3 cell if 14 V) lipo with diode will,
got a lot of those 1 cell lioos from ebay:
http://panteltje.com/pub/single_cell_lipo_protection_IMG_5486.JPG
Just put those in series..
That strip is a charge controller / protection (MOSFET in it), also from ebay.

Re: OT: DJI or similar drones

<t2reur$geb$1@dont-email.me>

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From: pNaonStp...@yahoo.com (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: OT: DJI or similar drones
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2022 08:08:05 GMT
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Sat, 9 Apr 2022 08:08 UTC

On a sunny day (Sat, 9 Apr 2022 07:39:27 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote in <t2rd7f$526$1@dont-email.me>:

>Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> John Doe wrote:
>>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> John Doe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Or maybe a tiny battery with a diode and maybe a resistor. Would be
>>>>> nice to know the input impedance, bias current, whatever.
>>>>
>>>> Diode should work, I have done that as backup in an other project, but
>>>> you lose a few hundred millivolts.
>>>
>>> How long without the drone battery?
>>
>> No idea, my drone uses 10 amps at 7.4V (2 cells)
>
>> http://panteltje.com/pub/hubsan_h501s_current_test_full_throttle_IMG_6290.JPG
>
>> http://panteltje.com/pub/hubsan_h501S_current_test_idle_IMG_6281.JPG
>
>I had one like that (H501S, with the big controller).
>
>>> This would be no more than seconds, while swapping batteries.
>>
>>>> Use a Schottky diode perhaps, those have very low voltage drops.
>>>
>>> The reverse leakage current won't destroy a CR3032 (or smaller)
>>> battery?
>>>
>>> The drone battery starts at about 14 V.
>>
>> So almost 1 A idle... A coin battery won't do that, a small 2 cell (or 3
>> cell if 14 V) lipo with diode will, got a lot of those 1 cell lioos from
>> ebay:
>
>> http://panteltje.com/pub/single_cell_lipo_protection_IMG_5486.JPG
>
>Good soldering.
>
>> Just put those in series.. That strip is a charge controller /
>> protection (MOSFET in it), also from ebay.
>
>I'm talking about swapping batteries. The thing is OFF, not idle. I will
>know soon enough.

Here I cannot follow you
If the drone is 'off' what difference does a small voltage interrupt make when changing batteries?
In my case after 'drone power off' it will have to re-get GPS and also you
need to calibrate the drone's 4 axis compass system by turning and moving it.
So then keeping power makes sense (but usually calibrating only takes a minute or so, so no tricks needed).

>Mavic Air (1) batteries are outrageously expensive, but I got a new kit
>for $300 (US). So the question is, how to use non-DJI lipos. Seems odd no
>one else has tried.

300 USD batteries and 20 minutes flying time ? Not a good deal.
Mine can extend fying time by adding an other lipo in parallel to past 30 minutes,
or use a bigger battery (strapped under the drone),

>There are some poorly made videos with insufficient instruction. There is
>a Russian guy's video using a stock battery shell to hold 18650s.

I have tried that sort of batteries, and expensive liion Sony cells:
http://panteltje.com/pub/liion_cells_storage_IMG_6338.JPG

Not better but worse than lipos!

Batteries for my drone are about 12 USD upwards:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=7.4V+2700mAh+30C+Lipo+Bat&_sacat=0

>Some use
>an Air 2 (the sequel) battery in a stock battery shell. But seems to me we
>can use a single stock battery shell and just swap the batteries. If it
>works, that will be by far the cheapest method.
>
>AFAIK, the only problem is keeping the battery management system (BMS)
>V+ pin from dropping below some cutoff voltage, while swapping batteries.

See above.

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