mandag den 11. april 2022 kl. 16.53.13 UTC+2 skrev Commander Kinsey:
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:47:19 +0100, Arie de Muijnck <eternal....@ademu.com> wrote:
>
> > On 2022-04-11 16:31, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Don't ultrasonic humidifiers cause mineral deposition nearby? Maybe
> >> not if one uses good distilled water.
> >
> > Yes, they do, extensively.
> >
> > I had the environment covered in a fine dust within weeks.
> >
> > Even stranger, in the kitchen at the other end of the apartment, gas
> > flames became orange/red, see for a test:
> > <https://ademu.home.xs4all.nl/Humidifier/Ultrasonic-humidifier-effect-on-gas-flame.mp4>
> So, after I edited that shit to remove the pointless <>, I find some idiot putting damp air into a gas flame, what was your point?
> > I find distilled water at EUR 0.5 / liter too expensive for using up to 5 liters per day...
> I find no such problems. All it does is make the air more humid. Why the fuck would that cause deposits?

because it doesn't turn the water into vapor, it turns the water, and what ever minerals in it, into tiny droplets and spread them in the air

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 08:47:31 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

>mandag den 11. april 2022 kl. 16.53.13 UTC+2 skrev Commander Kinsey:
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:47:19 +0100, Arie de Muijnck <eternal....@ademu.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On 2022-04-11 16:31, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Don't ultrasonic humidifiers cause mineral deposition nearby? Maybe
>> >> not if one uses good distilled water.
>> >
>> > Yes, they do, extensively.
>> >
>> > I had the environment covered in a fine dust within weeks.
>> >
>> > Even stranger, in the kitchen at the other end of the apartment, gas
>> > flames became orange/red, see for a test:
>> > <https://ademu.home.xs4all.nl/Humidifier/Ultrasonic-humidifier-effect-on-gas-flame.mp4>
>> So, after I edited that shit to remove the pointless <>, I find some idiot putting damp air into a gas flame, what was your point?
>> > I find distilled water at EUR 0.5 / liter too expensive for using up to 5 liters per day...
>> I find no such problems. All it does is make the air more humid. Why the fuck would that cause deposits?
>
>because it doesn't turn the water into vapor, it turns the water, and what ever minerals in it, into tiny droplets and spread them in the air

Right. Evaporation keeps the solids behind. Spraying doesn't.

Our water is naturally acidic, which would eat pipes, so it's passed
over limestone chips or something. That coats pipes and protects them.
It will make the deposits.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 08:47:31 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>
>> mandag den 11. april 2022 kl. 16.53.13 UTC+2 skrev Commander Kinsey:
>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:47:19 +0100, Arie de Muijnck <eternal....@ademu.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-04-11 16:31, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't ultrasonic humidifiers cause mineral deposition nearby? Maybe
>>>>> not if one uses good distilled water.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, they do, extensively.
>>>>
>>>> I had the environment covered in a fine dust within weeks.
>>>>
>>>> Even stranger, in the kitchen at the other end of the apartment, gas
>>>> flames became orange/red, see for a test:
>>>> <https://ademu.home.xs4all.nl/Humidifier/Ultrasonic-humidifier-effect-on-gas-flame.mp4>
>>> So, after I edited that shit to remove the pointless <>, I find some idiot putting damp air into a gas flame, what was your point?
>>>> I find distilled water at EUR 0.5 / liter too expensive for using up to 5 liters per day...
>>> I find no such problems. All it does is make the air more humid. Why the fuck would that cause deposits?
>>
>> because it doesn't turn the water into vapor, it turns the water, and what ever minerals in it, into tiny droplets and spread them in the air
>
> Right. Evaporation keeps the solids behind. Spraying doesn't.
>
> Our water is naturally acidic, which would eat pipes, so it's passed
> over limestone chips or something. That coats pipes and protects them.
> It will make the deposits.
>
>
>
I have an ancient (1960-vintage) DeVilbiss mains-powered vapourizer that
we use when somebody has a lower-respiratory bug. It's a glass jar
holding a gallon or so, and a Bakelite lid containing two plated steel
electrodes that get dunked into the water. They're covered by a
Bakelite cylinder with a hole in the bottom, and the steam from the
boiling water gets directed out a hole in the top.

The steam production can be regulated with a little bit of borax in the
water if needed. (Salt works but eventually eats the electrodes.)

Simple, works great, no moving parts, no Legionnaire's disease or lime
dust on the rug. Cheap on eBay. Good Medicine.

It does heat the room a little bit, but not enough to worry about.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

> mandag den 11. april 2022 kl. 16.53.13 UTC+2 skrev Commander Kinsey:
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:47:19 +0100, Arie de Muijnck
>> <eternal....@ademu.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On 2022-04-11 16:31, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Don't ultrasonic humidifiers cause mineral deposition nearby? Maybe
>> >> not if one uses good distilled water.
>> >
>> > Yes, they do, extensively.
>> >
>> > I had the environment covered in a fine dust within weeks.
>> >
>> > Even stranger, in the kitchen at the other end of the apartment, gas
>> > flames became orange/red, see for a test:
>> > <https://ademu.home.xs4all.nl/Humidifier/Ultrasonic-humidifier-effect-
>> > on-gas-flame.mp4> So, after I edited that shit to remove the
>> > pointless <>, I find some idiot putting damp air into a gas flame,
>> > what was your point? I find distilled water at EUR 0.5 / liter too
>> > expensive for using up to 5 liters per day...
>> I find no such problems. All it does is make the air more humid. Why
>> the fuck would that cause deposits?
>
> because it doesn't turn the water into vapor, it turns the water, and
> what ever minerals in it, into tiny droplets and spread them in the air

I am 80 and live in Canada, a cold climate. When the temperature is low, there
is very little humidity in the air. This means the relative humidity indoors is
very low and gets down to 20% or below.

Low humidity causes chapped lips, sore sinuses, and greatly increased
vulnerability to virus and bacterial infections. 30% to 50% RH solves these
problems.

I bought an Ultrasonic Top Fill Humidifier from Amazon Canada:
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B09KRCS7R7

This has no problem maintaining the humidity at 40%, but I discovered some
issues.

1. Ordinary tap water contains calcium. This covers everything with a fine dust.
It looks awful but it is harmless and is easily wiped off. Obviously, you breath
this in.

2. A very small amount of vinegar, 10 grams per 4 litres, prevents calcium
deposits from building up on the piezo element.

3. The humidifier eventually stopped working. It turns out that bacteria built
up a fine gray slime that covered the water valve that regulated the flow of
water into the piezo chamber. This blocked the valve and stopped the flow of
water. It was extremely difficult to remove, and I was never able to remove it
all. But I got enough out to allow the valve to begin working again. A very
small amount of household bleach, about 1 gram in 4 litres, was sufficient to
prevent the slime buildup.

4. The vinegar and bleach form hypochlorous acid, a very powerful antibiotic.

Sodium hypochlorite (bleacn) : NaOCl
Vinegar (acetic acid) : CH3COOH
Sodium acetate : CH3COONa
Hypochlorous acid : HOCl

The hypochlorous acid prevents slime buildup on the humidifier valve.
This uses 1 gm of vinegar, leaving the rest to combine with the calcium.

NaOCl(aq) + CH3COOH(aq) ==> CH3COONa(aq) + HOCl(aq).

5. The vinegar combines with the calcium and forms CO2, water, and calcium
acetate as follows:

Calcium carbonate : CaCO3
Vinegar (acetic acid) : CH3COOH
Calcium acetate : Ca(CH3COO)2
Water : H2O
Carbon Dioxide : CO2

CaCO3(s) + 2CH3COOH(l) --> Ca(CH3COO)2(s) + H2O(l) + CO2(g)

The calcium acetate is what coats the surfaces and gets in your lungs. It is
highly soluble and dissolves into your blood stream as soon as it enters.

The recommended dose for calcium is 2500 mg for adults ages 19-50 years and 2000
mg for adults over 50 years. If you take calcium supplement, the usual dose is
333 mg. So the small amount you inhale is actually healthful.

--
MRM

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

[...]

>>because it doesn't turn the water into vapor, it turns the water, and
>>what ever minerals in it, into tiny droplets and spread them in the air
>
> Right. Evaporation keeps the solids behind. Spraying doesn't.

Evaporation would have a very difficult time increasing the humidiy from 20%
to 50%. An ultrasonic humidifier has no problem. It forms a fine coating that
covers everything, but it is harmless. See my related post for the equations.

--
MRM

mandag den 11. april 2022 kl. 21.53.51 UTC+2 skrev Mike Monett:
> Lasse Langwadt Christensen <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:
> > mandag den 11. april 2022 kl. 16.53.13 UTC+2 skrev Commander Kinsey:
> >> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:47:19 +0100, Arie de Muijnck
> >> <eternal....@ademu.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On 2022-04-11 16:31, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Don't ultrasonic humidifiers cause mineral deposition nearby? Maybe
> >> >> not if one uses good distilled water.
> >> >
> >> > Yes, they do, extensively.
> >> >
> >> > I had the environment covered in a fine dust within weeks.
> >> >
> >> > Even stranger, in the kitchen at the other end of the apartment, gas
> >> > flames became orange/red, see for a test:
> >> > <https://ademu.home.xs4all.nl/Humidifier/Ultrasonic-humidifier-effect-
> >> > on-gas-flame.mp4> So, after I edited that shit to remove the
> >> > pointless <>, I find some idiot putting damp air into a gas flame,
> >> > what was your point? I find distilled water at EUR 0.5 / liter too
> >> > expensive for using up to 5 liters per day...
> >> I find no such problems. All it does is make the air more humid. Why
> >> the fuck would that cause deposits?
> >
> > because it doesn't turn the water into vapor, it turns the water, and
> > what ever minerals in it, into tiny droplets and spread them in the air
> I am 80 and live in Canada, a cold climate. When the temperature is low, there
> is very little humidity in the air. This means the relative humidity indoors is
> very low and gets down to 20% or below.
>

if you need both heat and humidity, just boil some water?

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

[...]

> I have an ancient (1960-vintage) DeVilbiss mains-powered vapourizer that
> we use when somebody has a lower-respiratory bug. It's a glass jar
> holding a gallon or so, and a Bakelite lid containing two plated steel
> electrodes that get dunked into the water. They're covered by a
> Bakelite cylinder with a hole in the bottom, and the steam from the
> boiling water gets directed out a hole in the top.
>
> The steam production can be regulated with a little bit of borax in the
> water if needed. (Salt works but eventually eats the electrodes.)
>
> Simple, works great, no moving parts, no Legionnaire's disease or lime
> dust on the rug. Cheap on eBay. Good Medicine.
>
> It does heat the room a little bit, but not enough to worry about.
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs

How long does it take to evaporate a gallon?

My ultrasonic mister takes about 24 hrs to evaporate 4 litres, which is
1.06 gallons. This raises the humidity from 20% to 40% and stops the
chapped lips and sore sinuses. The white film that covers everything is
harmless and is a small price to pay, but I wonder if a steamer could do as
well.

--
MRM

mandag den 11. april 2022 kl. 21.58.04 UTC+2 skrev Mike Monett:
> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
> [...]
> >>because it doesn't turn the water into vapor, it turns the water, and
> >>what ever minerals in it, into tiny droplets and spread them in the air
> >
> > Right. Evaporation keeps the solids behind. Spraying doesn't.
> Evaporation would have a very difficult time increasing the humidiy from 20%
> to 50%. An ultrasonic humidifier has no problem. It forms a fine coating that
> covers everything, but it is harmless. See my related post for the equations.

50% RH @ 20'C is ~8 grams of water per m^3

Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

[...]

> if you need both heat and humidity, just boil some water?

It takes about 1.5 KW to bring the apartment to a comfortable temperature.
That would destroy an electrolytic humidifier.

My ultrasonic humidifier takes very little power, perhaps 10W or so. The tiny
switching power supply doesn't even get warm.

--
MRM

mandag den 11. april 2022 kl. 22.15.10 UTC+2 skrev Mike Monett:
> Lasse Langwadt Christensen <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:
> [...]
> > if you need both heat and humidity, just boil some water?
> It takes about 1.5 KW to bring the apartment to a comfortable temperature.
> That would destroy an electrolytic humidifier.

put a pot of water on the stove...

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 13:22:25 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 08:47:31 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>
>>> mandag den 11. april 2022 kl. 16.53.13 UTC+2 skrev Commander Kinsey:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:47:19 +0100, Arie de Muijnck <eternal....@ademu.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2022-04-11 16:31, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't ultrasonic humidifiers cause mineral deposition nearby? Maybe
>>>>>> not if one uses good distilled water.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, they do, extensively.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had the environment covered in a fine dust within weeks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even stranger, in the kitchen at the other end of the apartment, gas
>>>>> flames became orange/red, see for a test:
>>>>> <https://ademu.home.xs4all.nl/Humidifier/Ultrasonic-humidifier-effect-on-gas-flame.mp4>
>>>> So, after I edited that shit to remove the pointless <>, I find some idiot putting damp air into a gas flame, what was your point?
>>>>> I find distilled water at EUR 0.5 / liter too expensive for using up to 5 liters per day...
>>>> I find no such problems. All it does is make the air more humid. Why the fuck would that cause deposits?
>>>
>>> because it doesn't turn the water into vapor, it turns the water, and what ever minerals in it, into tiny droplets and spread them in the air
>>
>> Right. Evaporation keeps the solids behind. Spraying doesn't.
>>
>> Our water is naturally acidic, which would eat pipes, so it's passed
>> over limestone chips or something. That coats pipes and protects them.
>> It will make the deposits.
>>
>>
>>
>I have an ancient (1960-vintage) DeVilbiss mains-powered vapourizer that
>we use when somebody has a lower-respiratory bug. It's a glass jar
>holding a gallon or so, and a Bakelite lid containing two plated steel
>electrodes that get dunked into the water. They're covered by a
>Bakelite cylinder with a hole in the bottom, and the steam from the
>boiling water gets directed out a hole in the top.
>
>The steam production can be regulated with a little bit of borax in the
>water if needed. (Salt works but eventually eats the electrodes.)
>
>Simple, works great, no moving parts, no Legionnaire's disease or lime
>dust on the rug. Cheap on eBay. Good Medicine.
>
>It does heat the room a little bit, but not enough to worry about.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

I was having nasty breathing problems up in the mountains, where it's
very dry; I grew up the the tropics.

I tried several commercial humidifiers, which didn't work well, and
you have to go outside eventually anyhow.

I got a sinus RF cautery session to open things up. 20 minutes changed
my life.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 13:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

>mandag den 11. april 2022 kl. 22.15.10 UTC+2 skrev Mike Monett:
>> Lasse Langwadt Christensen <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:
>> [...]
>> > if you need both heat and humidity, just boil some water?
>> It takes about 1.5 KW to bring the apartment to a comfortable temperature.
>> That would destroy an electrolytic humidifier.
>
>put a pot of water on the stove...

The pot will get all cruddy pretty soon.
--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

Mike Monett wrote:
> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> I have an ancient (1960-vintage) DeVilbiss mains-powered vapourizer that
>> we use when somebody has a lower-respiratory bug. It's a glass jar
>> holding a gallon or so, and a Bakelite lid containing two plated steel
>> electrodes that get dunked into the water. They're covered by a
>> Bakelite cylinder with a hole in the bottom, and the steam from the
>> boiling water gets directed out a hole in the top.
>>
>> The steam production can be regulated with a little bit of borax in the
>> water if needed. (Salt works but eventually eats the electrodes.)
>>
>> Simple, works great, no moving parts, no Legionnaire's disease or lime
>> dust on the rug. Cheap on eBay. Good Medicine.
>>
>> It does heat the room a little bit, but not enough to worry about.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>
> How long does it take to evaporate a gallon?

Depends on the salt content of the water--generally about 12 hours round
here. A Variac or even a triac dimmer could probably adjust it as desired.

>
> My ultrasonic mister takes about 24 hrs to evaporate 4 litres, which is
> 1.06 gallons. This raises the humidity from 20% to 40% and stops the
> chapped lips and sore sinuses. The white film that covers everything is
> harmless and is a small price to pay, but I wonder if a steamer could do as
> well.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 13:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>
>> mandag den 11. april 2022 kl. 22.15.10 UTC+2 skrev Mike Monett:
>>> Lasse Langwadt Christensen <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> if you need both heat and humidity, just boil some water?
>>> It takes about 1.5 KW to bring the apartment to a comfortable temperature.
>>> That would destroy an electrolytic humidifier.
>>
>> put a pot of water on the stove...
>
> The pot will get all cruddy pretty soon.
>
Not too bad if you dump it out before it boils dry. My vapourizer does
that automatically--the bottoms of the electrodes are an inch or so off
the bottom of the jar, so it turns off automatically before it dries out.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 21:06:34 +0100, Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote:

> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> I have an ancient (1960-vintage) DeVilbiss mains-powered vapourizer that
>> we use when somebody has a lower-respiratory bug. It's a glass jar
>> holding a gallon or so, and a Bakelite lid containing two plated steel
>> electrodes that get dunked into the water. They're covered by a
>> Bakelite cylinder with a hole in the bottom, and the steam from the
>> boiling water gets directed out a hole in the top.
>>
>> The steam production can be regulated with a little bit of borax in the
>> water if needed. (Salt works but eventually eats the electrodes.)
>>
>> Simple, works great, no moving parts, no Legionnaire's disease or lime
>> dust on the rug. Cheap on eBay. Good Medicine.
>>
>> It does heat the room a little bit, but not enough to worry about.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>
> How long does it take to evaporate a gallon?
>
> My ultrasonic mister takes about 24 hrs to evaporate 4 litres, which is
> 1.06 gallons. This raises the humidity from 20% to 40% and stops the
> chapped lips and sore sinuses. The white film that covers everything is
> harmless and is a small price to pay, but I wonder if a steamer could do as
> well.

It would increase the temperature, so you'd then need to use AC which would remove the humidity!

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 20:53:43 +0100, Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote:

> Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>
>> mandag den 11. april 2022 kl. 16.53.13 UTC+2 skrev Commander Kinsey:
>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:47:19 +0100, Arie de Muijnck
>>> <eternal....@ademu.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > On 2022-04-11 16:31, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Don't ultrasonic humidifiers cause mineral deposition nearby? Maybe
>>> >> not if one uses good distilled water.
>>> >
>>> > Yes, they do, extensively.
>>> >
>>> > I had the environment covered in a fine dust within weeks.
>>> >
>>> > Even stranger, in the kitchen at the other end of the apartment, gas
>>> > flames became orange/red, see for a test:
>>> > <https://ademu.home.xs4all.nl/Humidifier/Ultrasonic-humidifier-effect-
>>> > on-gas-flame.mp4> So, after I edited that shit to remove the
>>> > pointless <>, I find some idiot putting damp air into a gas flame,
>>> > what was your point? I find distilled water at EUR 0.5 / liter too
>>> > expensive for using up to 5 liters per day...
>>> I find no such problems. All it does is make the air more humid. Why
>>> the fuck would that cause deposits?
>>
>> because it doesn't turn the water into vapor, it turns the water, and
>> what ever minerals in it, into tiny droplets and spread them in the air
>
> I am 80 and live in Canada, a cold climate. When the temperature is low, there
> is very little humidity in the air. This means the relative humidity indoors is
> very low and gets down to 20% or below.
>
> Low humidity causes chapped lips, sore sinuses, and greatly increased
> vulnerability to virus and bacterial infections. 30% to 50% RH solves these
> problems.

I got mine for the parrots.

> I bought an Ultrasonic Top Fill Humidifier from Amazon Canada:
> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B09KRCS7R7
>
> This has no problem maintaining the humidity at 40%, but I discovered some
> issues.
>
> 1. Ordinary tap water contains calcium. This covers everything with a fine dust.
> It looks awful but it is harmless and is easily wiped off. Obviously, you breath
> this in.

I'm in a soft water area, virtually none of that. I'm surprised water companies aren't required to remove that shit so it doesn't scale up kettles., washing machines etc.

Whatever deposits on the piezo element, I just wipe off with my finger every time I refill it.

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

> Mike Monett wrote:
>> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> I have an ancient (1960-vintage) DeVilbiss mains-powered vapourizer
>>> that we use when somebody has a lower-respiratory bug. It's a glass
>>> jar holding a gallon or so, and a Bakelite lid containing two plated
>>> steel electrodes that get dunked into the water. They're covered by a
>>> Bakelite cylinder with a hole in the bottom, and the steam from the
>>> boiling water gets directed out a hole in the top.
>>>
>>> The steam production can be regulated with a little bit of borax in
>>> the water if needed. (Salt works but eventually eats the electrodes.)
>>>
>>> Simple, works great, no moving parts, no Legionnaire's disease or lime
>>> dust on the rug. Cheap on eBay. Good Medicine.
>>>
>>> It does heat the room a little bit, but not enough to worry about.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil Hobbs
>>
>> How long does it take to evaporate a gallon?

[...]

> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs
I seached EBay and found one that seems to be like it. The shipping from
the States was $50, which is outrageous and I refuse to pay.

I found a steamer at Amazon. It has a small chamber with a heating element

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07GQ2CF4T/

The calcium appears to stay in the water and attaches to the element, just
like in an electric kettle. Boiling vinegar for a few minutes should clean
it out. I'll try your trick of turning power off before the chamber is
empty.

The problem with this method is trying to control the output. It claims to
be able to adjust the output to give 24 hrs of run time. This would make it
identical to my ultrasonic mister, which keeps the humidity at 40%, which
is perfect.

Thanks very much for your post and helpful reply. Hopefully this will get
rid of the fine coating all over everything.

--
MRM

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

[...]

> I have an ancient (1960-vintage) DeVilbiss mains-powered vapourizer that
> we use when somebody has a lower-respiratory bug. It's a glass jar
> holding a gallon or so, and a Bakelite lid containing two plated steel
> electrodes that get dunked into the water. They're covered by a
> Bakelite cylinder with a hole in the bottom, and the steam from the
> boiling water gets directed out a hole in the top.
>
> The steam production can be regulated with a little bit of borax in the
> water if needed. (Salt works but eventually eats the electrodes.)
>
> Simple, works great, no moving parts, no Legionnaire's disease or lime
> dust on the rug. Cheap on eBay. Good Medicine.
>
> It does heat the room a little bit, but not enough to worry about.
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs

No need to mess with borax. A simple incadescent light dimmer can adjust
the output to any level desired. This should give better repeatability of
the steam output and more predictable results.

--
MRM

Mike Monett wrote:
> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> Mike Monett wrote:
>>> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> I have an ancient (1960-vintage) DeVilbiss mains-powered vapourizer
>>>> that we use when somebody has a lower-respiratory bug. It's a glass
>>>> jar holding a gallon or so, and a Bakelite lid containing two plated
>>>> steel electrodes that get dunked into the water. They're covered by a
>>>> Bakelite cylinder with a hole in the bottom, and the steam from the
>>>> boiling water gets directed out a hole in the top.
>>>>
>>>> The steam production can be regulated with a little bit of borax in
>>>> the water if needed. (Salt works but eventually eats the electrodes.)
>>>>
>>>> Simple, works great, no moving parts, no Legionnaire's disease or lime
>>>> dust on the rug. Cheap on eBay. Good Medicine.
>>>>
>>>> It does heat the room a little bit, but not enough to worry about.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>
>>> How long does it take to evaporate a gallon?
>
> [...]
>

> I seached EBay and found one that seems to be like it. The shipping from
> the States was $50, which is outrageous and I refuse to pay.

There are some for cheaper.

>
> I found a steamer at Amazon. It has a small chamber with a heating element
>
> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07GQ2CF4T/
>
> The calcium appears to stay in the water and attaches to the element, just
> like in an electric kettle. Boiling vinegar for a few minutes should clean
> it out. I'll try your trick of turning power off before the chamber is
> empty.

The nice thing about the DeVilbiss 145 is that the water is heated by
passing AC through it (the electrodes are directly connected to the
mains), so that happens automatically.

I very rarely need to use it for more than a week at a time, so I've
never had it crud up on me. Dunno what it's like in continual use.

> The problem with this method is trying to control the output. It claims to
> be able to adjust the output to give 24 hrs of run time. This would make it
> identical to my ultrasonic mister, which keeps the humidity at 40%, which
> is perfect.
>
> Thanks very much for your post and helpful reply. Hopefully this will get
> rid of the fine coating all over everything.

Not to mention all the mould spores and Legionella. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

> Mike Monett wrote:
>> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Mike Monett wrote:
>>>> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>> I have an ancient (1960-vintage) DeVilbiss mains-powered vapourizer
>>>>> that we use when somebody has a lower-respiratory bug. It's a glass
>>>>> jar holding a gallon or so, and a Bakelite lid containing two plated
>>>>> steel electrodes that get dunked into the water. They're covered by
>>>>> a Bakelite cylinder with a hole in the bottom, and the steam from
>>>>> the boiling water gets directed out a hole in the top.
>>>>>
>>>>> The steam production can be regulated with a little bit of borax in
>>>>> the water if needed. (Salt works but eventually eats the
>>>>> electrodes.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Simple, works great, no moving parts, no Legionnaire's disease or
>>>>> lime dust on the rug. Cheap on eBay. Good Medicine.
>>>>>
>>>>> It does heat the room a little bit, but not enough to worry about.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>>
>>>> How long does it take to evaporate a gallon?
>>
>> [...]
>>
>
>> I seached EBay and found one that seems to be like it. The shipping
>> from the States was $50, which is outrageous and I refuse to pay.
>
> There are some for cheaper.
>
>>
>> I found a steamer at Amazon. It has a small chamber with a heating
>> element
>>
>> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07GQ2CF4T/
>>
>> The calcium appears to stay in the water and attaches to the element,
>> just like in an electric kettle. Boiling vinegar for a few minutes
>> should clean it out. I'll try your trick of turning power off before
>> the chamber is empty.
>
> The nice thing about the DeVilbiss 145 is that the water is heated by
> passing AC through it (the electrodes are directly connected to the
> mains), so that happens automatically.

Yes. That would make it easy to DIY, but impossible to pass UL.

> I very rarely need to use it for more than a week at a time, so I've
> never had it crud up on me. Dunno what it's like in continual use.

As I think of it now, the output will drop since the current decreases as
the water level drops. This will make it impossible to maintain a constant
humidity level. Do you ever monitor the humidity? Digital hygrometers are
very cheap on EBay. For example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363794102205

I have a bunch that I use everywhere, and I have given a bunch away. I even
monitor the humidity in the vegetable bin in the fridges. (I have two) You
really need these in Canada when the temperature gets down to -30C.

>> The problem with this method is trying to control the output. It claims
>> to be able to adjust the output to give 24 hrs of run time. This would
>> make it identical to my ultrasonic mister, which keeps the humidity at
>> 40%, which is perfect.
>>
>> Thanks very much for your post and helpful reply. Hopefully this will
>> get rid of the fine coating all over everything.
>
> Not to mention all the mould spores and Legionella. ;)

The dash of bleach used to prevent slime buildup on the regulator valve
would eliminate any bacteria or viruses. I don't know where any mold spores
would come from. We get our water from an acquifer that filters lake water
through thousands of feet of silt and sand.

Incidentally, I caught Legionella on a trip to Singapore. Almost died
untill the doctor called and asked me to come into his office. Turns out he
had misread my chest X-ray and decided to check it again. If he had not, I
was a goner. Actually, it's not a bad way to go. Very peaceful, with
beautiful music on the way out.
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs
>
>

--
MRM

Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 21:06:34 +0100, Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote:
>
>> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> I have an ancient (1960-vintage) DeVilbiss mains-powered vapourizer that
>>> we use when somebody has a lower-respiratory bug.  It's a glass jar
>>> holding a gallon or so, and a Bakelite lid containing two plated steel
>>> electrodes that get dunked into the water.  They're covered by a
>>> Bakelite cylinder with a hole in the bottom, and the steam from the
>>> boiling water gets directed out a hole in the top.
>>>
>>> The steam production can be regulated with a little bit of borax in the
>>> water if needed.  (Salt works but eventually eats the electrodes.)
>>>
>>> Simple, works great, no moving parts, no Legionnaire's disease or lime
>>> dust on the rug.  Cheap on eBay.  Good Medicine.
>>>
>>> It does heat the room a little bit, but not enough to worry about.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil Hobbs
>>
>> How long does it take to evaporate a gallon?
>>
>> My ultrasonic mister takes about 24 hrs to evaporate 4 litres, which is
>> 1.06 gallons. This raises the humidity from 20% to 40% and stops the
>> chapped lips and sore sinuses. The white film that covers everything is
>> harmless and is a small price to pay, but I wonder if a steamer could
>> do as
>> well.
>
> It would increase the temperature, so you'd then need to use AC which
> would remove the humidity!

Not a big problem in the parts of Canada that are very dry in the winter. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Mike Monett wrote:
> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> I have an ancient (1960-vintage) DeVilbiss mains-powered vapourizer that
>> we use when somebody has a lower-respiratory bug. It's a glass jar
>> holding a gallon or so, and a Bakelite lid containing two plated steel
>> electrodes that get dunked into the water. They're covered by a
>> Bakelite cylinder with a hole in the bottom, and the steam from the
>> boiling water gets directed out a hole in the top.
>>
>> The steam production can be regulated with a little bit of borax in the
>> water if needed. (Salt works but eventually eats the electrodes.)
>>
>> Simple, works great, no moving parts, no Legionnaire's disease or lime
>> dust on the rug. Cheap on eBay. Good Medicine.
>>
>> It does heat the room a little bit, but not enough to worry about.
>>

> No need to mess with borax. A simple incadescent light dimmer can adjust
> the output to any level desired. This should give better repeatability of
> the steam output and more predictable results.

The borax speeds it up, whereas the dimmer can only slow it down. A
variac could do both. You'd also want to be careful to avoid any
residual DC from triac asymmetry.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Mike Monett wrote:
> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> Mike Monett wrote:
>>> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mike Monett wrote:
>>>>> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have an ancient (1960-vintage) DeVilbiss mains-powered vapourizer
>>>>>> that we use when somebody has a lower-respiratory bug. It's a glass
>>>>>> jar holding a gallon or so, and a Bakelite lid containing two plated
>>>>>> steel electrodes that get dunked into the water. They're covered by
>>>>>> a Bakelite cylinder with a hole in the bottom, and the steam from
>>>>>> the boiling water gets directed out a hole in the top.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The steam production can be regulated with a little bit of borax in
>>>>>> the water if needed. (Salt works but eventually eats the
>>>>>> electrodes.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Simple, works great, no moving parts, no Legionnaire's disease or
>>>>>> lime dust on the rug. Cheap on eBay. Good Medicine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It does heat the room a little bit, but not enough to worry about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>>>
>>>>> How long does it take to evaporate a gallon?
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>
>>> I seached EBay and found one that seems to be like it. The shipping
>>> from the States was $50, which is outrageous and I refuse to pay.
>>
>> There are some for cheaper.
>>
>>>
>>> I found a steamer at Amazon. It has a small chamber with a heating
>>> element
>>>
>>> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07GQ2CF4T/
>>>
>>> The calcium appears to stay in the water and attaches to the element,
>>> just like in an electric kettle. Boiling vinegar for a few minutes
>>> should clean it out. I'll try your trick of turning power off before
>>> the chamber is empty.
>>
>> The nice thing about the DeVilbiss 145 is that the water is heated by
>> passing AC through it (the electrodes are directly connected to the
>> mains), so that happens automatically.
>
> Yes. That would make it easy to DIY, but impossible to pass UL.
>
>> I very rarely need to use it for more than a week at a time, so I've
>> never had it crud up on me. Dunno what it's like in continual use.
>
> As I think of it now, the output will drop since the current decreases as
> the water level drops. This will make it impossible to maintain a constant
> humidity level. Do you ever monitor the humidity? Digital hygrometers are
> very cheap on EBay. For example:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/363794102205

Not usually. The vapourizer output is more nearly constant than you'd
think, because the concentration of dissolved solids goes up as the
water level goes down. It does decrease when the electrodes are nearly
out of the water.
>
> I have a bunch that I use everywhere, and I have given a bunch away. I even
> monitor the humidity in the vegetable bin in the fridges. (I have two) You
> really need these in Canada when the temperature gets down to -30C.
>
>>> The problem with this method is trying to control the output. It claims
>>> to be able to adjust the output to give 24 hrs of run time. This would
>>> make it identical to my ultrasonic mister, which keeps the humidity at
>>> 40%, which is perfect.
>>>
>>> Thanks very much for your post and helpful reply. Hopefully this will
>>> get rid of the fine coating all over everything.
>>
>> Not to mention all the mould spores and Legionella. ;)
>
> The dash of bleach used to prevent slime buildup on the regulator valve
> would eliminate any bacteria or viruses. I don't know where any mold spores
> would come from. We get our water from an acquifer that filters lake water
> through thousands of feet of silt and sand.
>
> Incidentally, I caught Legionella on a trip to Singapore. Almost died
> untill the doctor called and asked me to come into his office. Turns out he
> had misread my chest X-ray and decided to check it again. If he had not, I
> was a goner. Actually, it's not a bad way to go. Very peaceful, with
> beautiful music on the way out.

Sir William Osler famously called pneumonia "the old man's friend."

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>>
>>
>
>
>

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 06:01:47 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 20:53:43 +0100, Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote:
>
>> Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>
>>> mandag den 11. april 2022 kl. 16.53.13 UTC+2 skrev Commander Kinsey:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:47:19 +0100, Arie de Muijnck
>>>> <eternal....@ademu.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 2022-04-11 16:31, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Don't ultrasonic humidifiers cause mineral deposition nearby? Maybe
>>>> >> not if one uses good distilled water.
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes, they do, extensively.
>>>> >
>>>> > I had the environment covered in a fine dust within weeks.
>>>> >
>>>> > Even stranger, in the kitchen at the other end of the apartment, gas
>>>> > flames became orange/red, see for a test:
>>>> > <https://ademu.home.xs4all.nl/Humidifier/Ultrasonic-humidifier-effect-
>>>> > on-gas-flame.mp4> So, after I edited that shit to remove the
>>>> > pointless <>, I find some idiot putting damp air into a gas flame,
>>>> > what was your point? I find distilled water at EUR 0.5 / liter too
>>>> > expensive for using up to 5 liters per day...
>>>> I find no such problems. All it does is make the air more humid. Why
>>>> the fuck would that cause deposits?
>>>
>>> because it doesn't turn the water into vapor, it turns the water, and
>>> what ever minerals in it, into tiny droplets and spread them in the air
>>
>> I am 80 and live in Canada, a cold climate. When the temperature is low, there
>> is very little humidity in the air. This means the relative humidity indoors is
>> very low and gets down to 20% or below.
>>
>> Low humidity causes chapped lips, sore sinuses, and greatly increased
>> vulnerability to virus and bacterial infections. 30% to 50% RH solves these
>> problems.
>
>I got mine for the parrots.
>
>> I bought an Ultrasonic Top Fill Humidifier from Amazon Canada:
>> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B09KRCS7R7
>>
>> This has no problem maintaining the humidity at 40%, but I discovered some
>> issues.
>>
>> 1. Ordinary tap water contains calcium. This covers everything with a fine dust.
>> It looks awful but it is harmless and is easily wiped off. Obviously, you breath
>> this in.
>
>I'm in a soft water area, virtually none of that. I'm surprised water companies aren't required to remove that shit so it doesn't scale up kettles., washing machines etc.

Our water company adds limestone or something to protect the pipes.
The water supply here is naturally a bit acidic.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

[...]

> Our water company adds limestone or something to protect the pipes.
> The water supply here is naturally a bit acidic.

We have copper pipes in the residences, but I don't know if the city supply
uses copper, pvc or abs.

Limestone is Calcium carbonate, CaCO3.

This leaves a white film all over everything in an ultrasonic humidifier.

A boiling water steamer leaves the calcium on the heating element.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07GQ2CF4T/

The calcium is removed by boiling a small amount of vinegar in the chamber.

Calcium carbonate : CaCO3
Vinegar (acetic acid) : CH3COOH
Calcium acetate : Ca(CH3COO)2
Water : H2O
Carbon Dioxide : CO2

CaCO3(s) + 2CH3COOH(l) --> Ca(CH3COO)2(s) + H2O(l) + CO2(g)

--
MRM