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tech / sci.electronics.design / Re: optical phenom

SubjectAuthor
* optical phenomjlarkin
+* Re: optical phenomJohn Doe
|`* Re: optical phenomJohn Doe
| `* Re: optical phenomGlen Walpert
|  `- Re: optical phenomjlarkin
+- Re: optical phenomJan Panteltje
+* Re: optical phenomJan Panteltje
|`- Re: optical phenomjlarkin
+* Re: optical phenomGerhard Hoffmann
|+- Re: optical phenomJohn Walliker
|`- Re: optical phenomMike Coon
`* Re: optical phenomMartin Brown
 +- Re: optical phenomClive Arthur
 `* Re: optical phenomjlarkin
  `- Re: optical phenomMartin Brown

1
optical phenom

<034c5hh182v4dj8cqurtaj6fgqs21uu14i@4ax.com>

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From: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: optical phenom
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 17:09:47 -0700
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 00:09 UTC

I had cataract surgery in one eye and will do the other one soon.

I have a pretty high power 400 nm laser. If I shoot it at the wall,
the dot is bright with the repaired plastic-lens eye and invisible
with the one that has the cataract. My doctor explained that a
cataract absorbs blue light, and that's why some old ladies color
their hair bluish-white, because then it looks right to them.

If I scan the laser around the room, some objects do show with the bad
eye and some don't. That's because many "white" objects fluoresce to
make them look whiter. Most things fluoresce greenish or purplish, but
the giant old Radiotron Designers Handbook fluoresces red.

I have a 4FP7 CRT (DuMont, square-face, long-persistance, PDA) on a
bookshelf and I can paint fun patterns on it.

That nearly-UV laser always gives me a mild headache.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

Re: optical phenom

<t35kq1$cha$2@dont-email.me>

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From: always.l...@message.header (John Doe)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: optical phenom
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 04:50:09 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: John Doe - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 04:50 UTC

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

> I had cataract surgery in one eye and will do the other one soon.

You will clearly see the difference.

Modern medicine is amazing, that is a good example. Assuming everything
goes well.

I woke up during mine. Could see some pixelated lights or whatever.
Couldn't feel a thing. The doctor said "don't talk". I should have said
"I'll be back" but instead I just shut up and went back to sleep.

Re: optical phenom

<t35ldn$fvc$1@dont-email.me>

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From: always.l...@message.header (John Doe)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: optical phenom
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 05:00:39 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: John Doe - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 05:00 UTC

BTW... At the same time, they can remove "floaters" too.

Re: optical phenom

<t35ne9$t3m$1@dont-email.me>

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From: pNaonStp...@yahoo.com (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: optical phenom
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 05:34:02 GMT
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 05:34 UTC

On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Apr 2022 17:09:47 -0700) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<034c5hh182v4dj8cqurtaj6fgqs21uu14i@4ax.com>:

>I had cataract surgery in one eye and will do the other one soon.
>
>I have a pretty high power 400 nm laser. If I shoot it at the wall,
>the dot is bright with the repaired plastic-lens eye and invisible
>with the one that has the cataract. My doctor explained that a
>cataract absorbs blue light, and that's why some old ladies color
>their hair bluish-white, because then it looks right to them.
>
>If I scan the laser around the room, some objects do show with the bad
>eye and some don't. That's because many "white" objects fluoresce to
>make them look whiter. Most things fluoresce greenish or purplish, but
>the giant old Radiotron Designers Handbook fluoresces red.
>
>I have a 4FP7 CRT (DuMont, square-face, long-persistance, PDA) on a
>bookshelf and I can paint fun patterns on it.
>
>That nearly-UV laser always gives me a mild headache.

I have one of those LED UV flashlight to check banknotes
It looks bluish to me.
When it shines on normal white paper it lights up brighter bluish -white.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/112135829056

Re: optical phenom

<t35o6f$1m0$1@dont-email.me>

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From: pNaonStp...@yahoo.com (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: optical phenom
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 05:46:56 GMT
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 05:46 UTC

PS
it is actually fun stuff, UV,
https://www.thoughtco.com/what-glows-under-a-black-light-607615

I tried it among other things on London Tonic.. the quinine in it lights up.
Also my old EPROM eraser lightbulb works the same way, but is better more powerful UV I think,
do not look into it.

Re: optical phenom

<t35q24$qlfe$1@solani.org>

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From: dk4...@arcor.de (Gerhard Hoffmann)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: optical phenom
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 08:19:48 +0200
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 by: Gerhard Hoffmann - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 06:19 UTC

Am 13.04.22 um 02:09 schrieb jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com:
> I had cataract surgery in one eye and will do the other one soon.
>
> I have a pretty high power 400 nm laser. If I shoot it at the wall,
> the dot is bright with the repaired plastic-lens eye and invisible
> with the one that has the cataract. My doctor explained that a
> cataract absorbs blue light, and that's why some old ladies color
> their hair bluish-white, because then it looks right to them.
>
> If I scan the laser around the room, some objects do show with the bad
> eye and some don't. That's because many "white" objects fluoresce to
> make them look whiter. Most things fluoresce greenish or purplish, but
> the giant old Radiotron Designers Handbook fluoresces red.
>
> I have a 4FP7 CRT (DuMont, square-face, long-persistance, PDA) on a
> bookshelf and I can paint fun patterns on it.
>
> That nearly-UV laser always gives me a mild headache.

Reminds me at a guy in France some 200 years ago who discovered
color blindness from the fact that he and his brother classified
the color of flowers differently than other people, depending
on sunlight or candles.

Gerhard

Re: optical phenom

<d6c87d92-6447-463f-9df9-e15b77500346n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: optical phenom
From: jrwalli...@gmail.com (John Walliker)
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 by: John Walliker - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 09:16 UTC

On Wednesday, 13 April 2022 at 07:19:56 UTC+1, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
> Am 13.04.22 um 02:09 schrieb jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
> > I had cataract surgery in one eye and will do the other one soon.
> >
> > I have a pretty high power 400 nm laser. If I shoot it at the wall,
> > the dot is bright with the repaired plastic-lens eye and invisible
> > with the one that has the cataract. My doctor explained that a
> > cataract absorbs blue light, and that's why some old ladies color
> > their hair bluish-white, because then it looks right to them.
> >
> > If I scan the laser around the room, some objects do show with the bad
> > eye and some don't. That's because many "white" objects fluoresce to
> > make them look whiter. Most things fluoresce greenish or purplish, but
> > the giant old Radiotron Designers Handbook fluoresces red.
> >
> > I have a 4FP7 CRT (DuMont, square-face, long-persistance, PDA) on a
> > bookshelf and I can paint fun patterns on it.
> >
> > That nearly-UV laser always gives me a mild headache.
> Reminds me at a guy in France some 200 years ago who discovered
> color blindness from the fact that he and his brother classified
> the color of flowers differently than other people, depending
> on sunlight or candles.
>
> Gerhard
We had a workman in the house once who mentioned that he was
colour blind and could not see red at all. The sun was shining on
a cut glass ornament projecting a spectrum on the wall. He pointed
out the regions of the spectrum that he could see. The red end really
was completely missing.

John

Re: optical phenom

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From: grav...@mjcoon.plus.com (Mike Coon)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: optical phenom
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 by: Mike Coon - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 10:19 UTC

In article <t35q24$qlfe$1@solani.org>, dk4xp@arcor.de says...
>
> Reminds me at a guy in France some 200 years ago who discovered
> color blindness from the fact that he and his brother classified
> the color of flowers differently than other people, depending
> on sunlight or candles.
>
> Gerhard

What a co-incidence. Because as Wikipedia relates
(<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness>), John Dalton and his
brother in Manchester, England, also noticed the same thing. And colour-
blindness is known as Daltonism after him... Dalton is known for lots of
other topics and admittedly, Wikipedia says: "In 1822 he paid a short
visit to Paris."

Re: optical phenom

<t36f43$144a$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: '''newsp...@nonad.co.uk (Martin Brown)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: optical phenom
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 13:19:14 +0100
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 by: Martin Brown - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 12:19 UTC

On 13/04/2022 01:09, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> I had cataract surgery in one eye and will do the other one soon.
>
> I have a pretty high power 400 nm laser. If I shoot it at the wall,
> the dot is bright with the repaired plastic-lens eye and invisible
> with the one that has the cataract. My doctor explained that a
> cataract absorbs blue light, and that's why some old ladies color
> their hair bluish-white, because then it looks right to them.
>
> If I scan the laser around the room, some objects do show with the bad
> eye and some don't. That's because many "white" objects fluoresce to
> make them look whiter. Most things fluoresce greenish or purplish, but
> the giant old Radiotron Designers Handbook fluoresces red.

Red is fairly unusual fluorescence with 400nm excitation.

The colours you get tend to vary with rare earth impurities or various
aromatic dyes. Washing powders contain a fairly potent blue fluorescer.

Bank notes and secure paper contain interesting flecks that show under
the right wavelength of near UV light.

> I have a 4FP7 CRT (DuMont, square-face, long-persistance, PDA) on a
> bookshelf and I can paint fun patterns on it.
>
> That nearly-UV laser always gives me a mild headache.

400nm is a wavelength capable of harming human eyes at high levels.

The solar Calcium K line filter at 394nm is sold as suitable only for
photographic use for that reason. Eye damage is a real risk.

https://www.baader-planetarium.com/en/baader-k-line-filter-1ΒΌ"-(double-stacked).html

Spec sheet has more info on the potential hazards at this wavelength:

https://www.baader-planetarium.com/en/downloads/dl/file/id/8/product/1399/important_notes_on_the_stacked_k_line_filter.pdf

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Re: optical phenom

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From: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: optical phenom
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 07:28:45 -0700
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 14:28 UTC

On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 05:46:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>PS
>it is actually fun stuff, UV,
> https://www.thoughtco.com/what-glows-under-a-black-light-607615
>
>I tried it among other things on London Tonic.. the quinine in it lights up.
>Also my old EPROM eraser lightbulb works the same way, but is better more powerful UV I think,
>do not look into it.
>
>
>

Our liquid laundry detergent fluoresces bright white, to make your
clothes look clean and bright. I understand that they can be a laser
medium.

My next choice will be the focal length of my left eye. My right one,
with the plastic lens, focusses at 17". If I make the other one
closer, I should have a pretty wide range of close vision, ideal for
reading and computing and soldering. Brains are very good at stitching
images.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

Re: optical phenom

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From: cli...@nowaytoday.co.uk (Clive Arthur)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: optical phenom
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 15:39:59 +0100
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 by: Clive Arthur - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 14:39 UTC

On 13/04/2022 13:19, Martin Brown wrote:

<snip>

> Red is fairly unusual fluorescence with 400nm excitation.

I've noticed the same with old paperback data books, the red text on the
cover often fluoresces orangey-red. Not new data books, probably
because I don't have any.

--
Cheers
Clive

Re: optical phenom

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From: nos...@null.void (Glen Walpert)
Subject: Re: optical phenom
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
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 by: Glen Walpert - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 15:25 UTC

On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 05:00:39 -0000 (UTC), John Doe wrote:

> BTW... At the same time, they can remove "floaters" too.

I will definitely look into that, I have a lot of floaters.

I noticed another interesting optical effect of cataracts during my last
refraction - I could read the 20/20 line clearly twice in one eye. The
two equally sharp images were completely separated with space in between,
although the second image was lower contrast. Apparently cataracts are
birefringent, with random orientation, the other eye has a smaller offset
to the second image in a different direction. Very common according to
my Ophthalmologist.

Re: optical phenom

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From: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: optical phenom
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 08:45:17 -0700
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 15:45 UTC

On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 13:19:14 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>On 13/04/2022 01:09, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> I had cataract surgery in one eye and will do the other one soon.
>>
>> I have a pretty high power 400 nm laser. If I shoot it at the wall,
>> the dot is bright with the repaired plastic-lens eye and invisible
>> with the one that has the cataract. My doctor explained that a
>> cataract absorbs blue light, and that's why some old ladies color
>> their hair bluish-white, because then it looks right to them.
>>
>> If I scan the laser around the room, some objects do show with the bad
>> eye and some don't. That's because many "white" objects fluoresce to
>> make them look whiter. Most things fluoresce greenish or purplish, but
>> the giant old Radiotron Designers Handbook fluoresces red.
>
>Red is fairly unusual fluorescence with 400nm excitation.

The other direction is even more unusual, but is barely possible with
2-photon excitation.

>
>The colours you get tend to vary with rare earth impurities or various
>aromatic dyes. Washing powders contain a fairly potent blue fluorescer.
>
>Bank notes and secure paper contain interesting flecks that show under
>the right wavelength of near UV light.
>
>> I have a 4FP7 CRT (DuMont, square-face, long-persistance, PDA) on a
>> bookshelf and I can paint fun patterns on it.
>>
>> That nearly-UV laser always gives me a mild headache.
>
>400nm is a wavelength capable of harming human eyes at high levels.

The laser has a safety diffuser that scatters the light into a neat
speckle pattern. Even looking at that reflected off a surface gives me
a headache.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

Re: optical phenom

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Subject: Re: optical phenom
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 15:48 UTC

On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 15:25:13 GMT, Glen Walpert <nospam@null.void>
wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 05:00:39 -0000 (UTC), John Doe wrote:
>
>> BTW... At the same time, they can remove "floaters" too.
>
>I will definitely look into that, I have a lot of floaters.
>
>I noticed another interesting optical effect of cataracts during my last
>refraction - I could read the 20/20 line clearly twice in one eye. The
>two equally sharp images were completely separated with space in between,
>although the second image was lower contrast. Apparently cataracts are
>birefringent, with random orientation, the other eye has a smaller offset
>to the second image in a different direction. Very common according to
>my Ophthalmologist.

I've always had a double image in one eye, before and after the
cataract surgery. Some fold in the optics somewhere. I can map the
boundary by scanning through a pinhole.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

Re: optical phenom

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From: '''newsp...@nonad.co.uk (Martin Brown)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: optical phenom
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 17:08:28 +0100
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 by: Martin Brown - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 16:08 UTC

On 13/04/2022 16:45, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 13:19:14 +0100, Martin Brown
> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 13/04/2022 01:09, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
>> Red is fairly unusual fluorescence with 400nm excitation.
>
>The other direction is even more unusual, but is barely possible with
> 2-photon excitation.

We used to use NdYAG 266nm UV for sampling laser ablation quadrupled
from the fundamental NdYAG 1064 line which still had more than a trace
of the 532nm green line in it. Small spot size is everything in laser
ablation sampling methods solid direct to plasma at the focus.

People with more money than sense had Xenon fluoride 351nm laser kit
before the high power quadrupled laser source was perfected.

>>> That nearly-UV laser always gives me a mild headache.
>>
>> 400nm is a wavelength capable of harming human eyes at high levels.
>
> The laser has a safety diffuser that scatters the light into a neat
> speckle pattern. Even looking at that reflected off a surface gives me
> a headache.

Seriously if you can see it as bright then it is capable inflicting eye
damage. It really isn't a very friendly wavelength. The eye isn't very
sensitive to it so you get no warning and the photons are energetic.

Nowhere near as bad as the hard UV of EPROM erasers though.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

1
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