On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 17:53:33 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/6/2023 5:29 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Monday, November 6, 2023 at 3:08:20?PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 11/6/2023 4:39 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 13:55:24 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Also we might comment that the metric system is the Mickey Mouse system designed to be used by people that can't use simple arithmetic and have even a hard time moving the decimal point back and forth. This is NOT "the American System" but the English system. Britannia did more than rule the waves - they invented the modern scientific method and it was all based on the English system of measurement. Though God only knows where they got their monetary system from.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.metricmetal.com/history-of-the-metric-system/>
>>>> 1957: The U.S. Army and Marine Corps adopted the metric system. Used
>>>> as the basis for their weapons and equipment.
>>>>
>>>> NASA is all metric after the Mars Climate Orbiter crashed due to a
>>>> mixup of units.
>>>> <https://www.simscale.com/blog/nasa-mars-climate-orbiter-metric/>
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, the USAF still uses a mixture of units from both the
>>>> imperial and metric systems.
>>>>
>>>> 1988: Congress passed the Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act. This
>>>> act called for all federal government agencies to use the metric
>>>> system for business by the end of 1992.
>>>>
>>>> The US medical system is all metric.
>>>> US motor vehicles are all metric.
>>>> US packaged foods are marked in both imperial and metric, but are
>>>> increasingly bought and sold in metric units.
>>>>
>>>> IBM PC based computers and descendents are a mixture. The two main
>>>> hardware threads are M3 and 6-32 UNC.
>>>>
>>>> More:
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_States>
>>>>
>>>>> I use the metric system occasionally to humor people with poor math skills.
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't seem to be working well for your arithmetic abilities.
>>>>
>>>>> But knowing that one inch is equal to 2.54xxx cm doesn't make it easy to work with.
>>>>
>>>> Neither does Pi = 3.1415 etc or any of the other conversion factors in
>>>> common use. Fortunately, the government arrived to help simplify
>>>> things:
>>>> "Indiana Pi Bill"
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Regarding legislation. I asked a customer (president of a
>>> large builder) about the Clinton era stipulation that
>>> government buildings henceforth shall be of metric
>>> dimensions. I wondered if his suppliers conformed.
>>>
>>> He laughed. When he stopped he said they hadn't changed
>>> anything except to add a software function so their plotters
>>> could make metric versions of their usual plans, e.g, a 36
>>> inch window is marked as 901mm and so on.
>
>>
>> The metric system was INVENTED by an Englishman who I suppose thought the common man too stupid to use the English system and would rather use things evenly divisible by 10. That the English really didn't fall for that was shown by the way the French decided to use it and the rest of Europe followed in their footsteps. Bonaparte was not particularly intelligent about anything other than taking advantage of the failings of others. So it seems that it was passed on to all of the French. By what metric measure is a loaf of bread?
>
>Our modern culture incorporates Sumerian root base-12
>systems, decimal and others (360 degree geometry and
>astronomy). There's no inherent 'better' beyond familiarity
>in most cases. But you have to admit there are real
>conveniences in metric, such as tap drill sizes (dia minus
>advancement) and wrench sizes (10x advancement). Try that in
>British Whitworth or SAE (which replaced National and
>Unified and before that Sellers and...). At least metric is
>a bit more stable now that French metric has died and left
>DIN and JIS dominant.
>
>Had you grown up using stone rather than pounds you would
>view them as normal and familiar. Ditto kilos.
>
>Being immersed in bicycles, an American dimensioned lathe
>and a lot of 60 year old autos, I can slip easily between
>systems. I cook in a mix of both systems where applicable,
>doesn't make trouble at all. That's not different from a
>22mm diameter cam specified to a -9 degree open (mixed
>systems again)
>
>Would the world be more orderly with a universal system?
>Probably. But that's not where we live. Deal with it.

I've learned to think in both systems, having owned and maintained
several cars, boats, bicycles, and motorcycles from the metric world.
My tool box is a hodgepodge mix of US and metric tools.

That said, I'm simply not in favor of more attempts at globalization.
Just as I favor personal individualism, I also favor national
individualism.

On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 11:33:58 AM UTC+1, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 17:53:33 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
..
..
>
> That said, I'm simply not in favor of more attempts at globalization.
> Just as I favor personal individualism, I also favor national
> individualism.

Yes every state their own units, like in the old days. Californian feet, Florida feet etc. etc. Succes and buy a bigger toolbox.

Lou, don't start me on sheet metal and wire gauges.

On 11/6/2023 9:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 11/6/2023 6:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> Regarding legislation. I asked a customer (president of a
>> large builder) about the Clinton era stipulation that
>> government buildings henceforth shall be of metric
>> dimensions. I wondered if his suppliers conformed.
>>
>> He laughed.  When he stopped he said they hadn't changed
>> anything except to add a software function so their
>> plotters could make metric versions of their usual plans,
>> e.g, a 36 inch window is marked as 901mm and so on.
>
> Or maybe 914mm?
>
> At this point, changing building materials over to truly
> metric dimensions would be extremely difficult.
>
> Canada is officially metric but uses a hodgepodge of the two
> systems.
>

USAF has tooling parts and hardware in great profusion
worldwide which is why US aircraft will not be metric any
time soon.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/7/2023 3:03 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 12:08:20 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/6/2023 4:39 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 13:55:24 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also we might comment that the metric system is the Mickey Mouse system designed to be used by people that can't use simple arithmetic and have even a hard time moving the decimal point back and forth. This is NOT "the American System" but the English system. Britannia did more than rule the waves - they invented the modern scientific method and it was all based on the English system of measurement. Though God only knows where they got their monetary system from.
>>>
>>> <https://www.metricmetal.com/history-of-the-metric-system/>
>>> 1957: The U.S. Army and Marine Corps adopted the metric system. Used
>>> as the basis for their weapons and equipment.
>>>
>>> NASA is all metric after the Mars Climate Orbiter crashed due to a
>>> mixup of units.
>>> <https://www.simscale.com/blog/nasa-mars-climate-orbiter-metric/>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, the USAF still uses a mixture of units from both the
>>> imperial and metric systems.
>>>
>>> 1988: Congress passed the Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act. This
>>> act called for all federal government agencies to use the metric
>>> system for business by the end of 1992.
>>>
>>> The US medical system is all metric.
>>> US motor vehicles are all metric.
>>> US packaged foods are marked in both imperial and metric, but are
>>> increasingly bought and sold in metric units.
>>>
>>> IBM PC based computers and descendents are a mixture. The two main
>>> hardware threads are M3 and 6-32 UNC.
>>>
>>> More:
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_States>
>>>
>>>> I use the metric system occasionally to humor people with poor math skills.
>>>
>>> That doesn't seem to be working well for your arithmetic abilities.
>>>
>>>> But knowing that one inch is equal to 2.54xxx cm doesn't make it easy to work with.
>>>
>>> Neither does Pi = 3.1415 etc or any of the other conversion factors in
>>> common use. Fortunately, the government arrived to help simplify
>>> things:
>>> "Indiana Pi Bill"
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill>
>>>
>>>
>> Regarding legislation. I asked a customer (president of a
>> large builder) about the Clinton era stipulation that
>> government buildings henceforth shall be of metric
>> dimensions. I wondered if his suppliers conformed.
>>
>> He laughed. When he stopped he said they hadn't changed
>> anything except to add a software function so their plotters
>> could make metric versions of their usual plans, e.g, a 36
>> inch window is marked as 901mm and so on.
>
> Then the window didn't fit.
>
> Lou
My error should be 914mm sorry.
The point is that their vendor provided windows which fit
the framing and so on through the buildings (some quite
massive and complex projects). One set of plans for
compliance purposes was labeled in metric dimensions which
had no bearing on the actual building.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 12:51:20 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, November 6, 2023 at 10:55:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> >
> > Also we might comment that the metric system is the Mickey Mouse system designed to be used by people that can't use simple arithmetic and have even a hard time moving the decimal point back and forth.
> Who wrote 2" and meant 0.2" converting from millimeters to Mickey Mouse units? So who is the guy that doesn't know how to move the decimal point? Tell me. Why did you even convert 5 mm to Mickey Mouse units? In my business tolerances of 0.1 mm are very common, so when we get parts from the USA with dimension in Mickey Mouse units we get dimension tolerances of 0.004 or even worse fractions. Retarded system.
>
> Lou
I did move the decimal correctly. I simply had a typo on the decimal point so that you could complain about it. I will be more careful in the future so that I put a zero in front of fractions so that you can complain even more about the missing decimal point. When I'm having trouble concentrating because of a painful illness mistakes invariably occur. Despite the pain at least I am getting out on rides on days when it isn't actively raining or supposed to rain.

Your mistakes concerning reading Andrew's references might be mentioned so I have to wonder if you even read them. They were quite clear that changes in crank arm length had also to be made in specific ways for EACH of the test subjects. So be careful that you don't catch yourself in the same trap that you wish to catch others.

On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 1:03:51 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 12:08:20 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 11/6/2023 4:39 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > > On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 13:55:24 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Also we might comment that the metric system is the Mickey Mouse system designed to be used by people that can't use simple arithmetic and have even a hard time moving the decimal point back and forth. This is NOT "the American System" but the English system. Britannia did more than rule the waves - they invented the modern scientific method and it was all based on the English system of measurement. Though God only knows where they got their monetary system from.
> > >
> > > <https://www.metricmetal.com/history-of-the-metric-system/>
> > > 1957: The U.S. Army and Marine Corps adopted the metric system. Used
> > > as the basis for their weapons and equipment.
> > >
> > > NASA is all metric after the Mars Climate Orbiter crashed due to a
> > > mixup of units.
> > > <https://www.simscale.com/blog/nasa-mars-climate-orbiter-metric/>
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, the USAF still uses a mixture of units from both the
> > > imperial and metric systems.
> > >
> > > 1988: Congress passed the Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act. This
> > > act called for all federal government agencies to use the metric
> > > system for business by the end of 1992.
> > >
> > > The US medical system is all metric.
> > > US motor vehicles are all metric.
> > > US packaged foods are marked in both imperial and metric, but are
> > > increasingly bought and sold in metric units.
> > >
> > > IBM PC based computers and descendents are a mixture. The two main
> > > hardware threads are M3 and 6-32 UNC.
> > >
> > > More:
> > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_States>
> > >
> > >> I use the metric system occasionally to humor people with poor math skills.
> > >
> > > That doesn't seem to be working well for your arithmetic abilities.
> > >
> > >> But knowing that one inch is equal to 2.54xxx cm doesn't make it easy to work with.
> > >
> > > Neither does Pi = 3.1415 etc or any of the other conversion factors in
> > > common use. Fortunately, the government arrived to help simplify
> > > things:
> > > "Indiana Pi Bill"
> > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill>
> > >
> > >
> > Regarding legislation. I asked a customer (president of a
> > large builder) about the Clinton era stipulation that
> > government buildings henceforth shall be of metric
> > dimensions. I wondered if his suppliers conformed.
> >
> > He laughed. When he stopped he said they hadn't changed
> > anything except to add a software function so their plotters
> > could make metric versions of their usual plans, e.g, a 36
> > inch window is marked as 901mm and so on.
> Then the window didn't fit.
>
> Lou
There appears to be the problem with your use of English again Lou. Andrew was making a point and not trying to be accurate in his conversion. You seem to be in an argumentative mood lately. Is this because you haven't adapted to retirement yet? It does take time.

On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 6:34:18 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 11:33:58 AM UTC+1, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 17:53:33 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> .
> .
> >
> > That said, I'm simply not in favor of more attempts at globalization.
> > Just as I favor personal individualism, I also favor national
> > individualism.
> Yes every state their own units, like in the old days. Californian feet, Florida feet etc. etc. Succes and buy a bigger toolbox.
>
> Lou, don't start me on sheet metal and wire gauges.
My toolbox for work on larger items like cars has metric on one side and SI on the other. I might add that on ALL of the English sports cars I owned (which was a lot) they all used SI except I think the MGTC which I seem to remember used Whitworth.

Perhaps you should stop crying like Krygowski because the world doesn't agree with your ideas.

On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 7:28:25 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/6/2023 9:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 11/6/2023 6:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>
> >> Regarding legislation. I asked a customer (president of a
> >> large builder) about the Clinton era stipulation that
> >> government buildings henceforth shall be of metric
> >> dimensions. I wondered if his suppliers conformed.
> >>
> >> He laughed. When he stopped he said they hadn't changed
> >> anything except to add a software function so their
> >> plotters could make metric versions of their usual plans,
> >> e.g, a 36 inch window is marked as 901mm and so on.
> >
> > Or maybe 914mm?
> >
> > At this point, changing building materials over to truly
> > metric dimensions would be extremely difficult.
> >
> > Canada is officially metric but uses a hodgepodge of the two
> > systems.
> >
> USAF has tooling parts and hardware in great profusion
> worldwide which is why US aircraft will not be metric any
> time soon.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Only a mechanical engineer would think that the world should cast away tooling and start anew.

On 11/7/2023 11:00 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 7:28:25 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/6/2023 9:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 11/6/2023 6:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Regarding legislation. I asked a customer (president of a
>>>> large builder) about the Clinton era stipulation that
>>>> government buildings henceforth shall be of metric
>>>> dimensions. I wondered if his suppliers conformed.
>>>>
>>>> He laughed. When he stopped he said they hadn't changed
>>>> anything except to add a software function so their
>>>> plotters could make metric versions of their usual plans,
>>>> e.g, a 36 inch window is marked as 901mm and so on.
>>>
>>> Or maybe 914mm?
>>>
>>> At this point, changing building materials over to truly
>>> metric dimensions would be extremely difficult.
>>>
>>> Canada is officially metric but uses a hodgepodge of the two
>>> systems.
>>>
>> USAF has tooling parts and hardware in great profusion
>> worldwide which is why US aircraft will not be metric any
>> time soon.
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
> Only a mechanical engineer would think that the world should cast away tooling and start anew.

That's not what I said, Tom. You persist in arguing against what you
imagine I said, not what I've actually said.

The switch to SI units is happening, slowly. Yes, the huge amount of
infrastructure (buildings, existing machinery, etc.) will cause the
switch to be very slow in many industries. But it's happening anyway,
except perhaps for building materials.

ISTM that I'm using metric standard tools and fasteners on almost
anything manufactured recently.

(How's your collection of metric vs. U.S. Torx fasteners coming along?)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 4:55:21 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 1:03:51 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 12:08:20 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 11/6/2023 4:39 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 13:55:24 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Also we might comment that the metric system is the Mickey Mouse system designed to be used by people that can't use simple arithmetic and have even a hard time moving the decimal point back and forth. This is NOT "the American System" but the English system. Britannia did more than rule the waves - they invented the modern scientific method and it was all based on the English system of measurement. Though God only knows where they got their monetary system from.
> > > >
> > > > <https://www.metricmetal.com/history-of-the-metric-system/>
> > > > 1957: The U.S. Army and Marine Corps adopted the metric system. Used
> > > > as the basis for their weapons and equipment.
> > > >
> > > > NASA is all metric after the Mars Climate Orbiter crashed due to a
> > > > mixup of units.
> > > > <https://www.simscale.com/blog/nasa-mars-climate-orbiter-metric/>
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately, the USAF still uses a mixture of units from both the
> > > > imperial and metric systems.
> > > >
> > > > 1988: Congress passed the Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act. This
> > > > act called for all federal government agencies to use the metric
> > > > system for business by the end of 1992.
> > > >
> > > > The US medical system is all metric.
> > > > US motor vehicles are all metric.
> > > > US packaged foods are marked in both imperial and metric, but are
> > > > increasingly bought and sold in metric units.
> > > >
> > > > IBM PC based computers and descendents are a mixture. The two main
> > > > hardware threads are M3 and 6-32 UNC.
> > > >
> > > > More:
> > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_States>
> > > >
> > > >> I use the metric system occasionally to humor people with poor math skills.
> > > >
> > > > That doesn't seem to be working well for your arithmetic abilities.
> > > >
> > > >> But knowing that one inch is equal to 2.54xxx cm doesn't make it easy to work with.
> > > >
> > > > Neither does Pi = 3.1415 etc or any of the other conversion factors in
> > > > common use. Fortunately, the government arrived to help simplify
> > > > things:
> > > > "Indiana Pi Bill"
> > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Regarding legislation. I asked a customer (president of a
> > > large builder) about the Clinton era stipulation that
> > > government buildings henceforth shall be of metric
> > > dimensions. I wondered if his suppliers conformed.
> > >
> > > He laughed. When he stopped he said they hadn't changed
> > > anything except to add a software function so their plotters
> > > could make metric versions of their usual plans, e.g, a 36
> > > inch window is marked as 901mm and so on.
> > Then the window didn't fit.
> >
> > Lou
> There appears to be the problem with your use of English again Lou. Andrew was making a point and not trying to be accurate in his conversion. You seem to be in an argumentative mood lately. Is this because you haven't adapted to retirement yet? It does take time.

It was a joke. My retirement last 3 weeks then I was asked if I would come back for half a year. I was happy to do that. Man, double income and free coffee ;-)

Lou

On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 9:55:39 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 4:55:21 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 1:03:51 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 12:08:20 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 11/6/2023 4:39 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 13:55:24 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > > > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Also we might comment that the metric system is the Mickey Mouse system designed to be used by people that can't use simple arithmetic and have even a hard time moving the decimal point back and forth. This is NOT "the American System" but the English system. Britannia did more than rule the waves - they invented the modern scientific method and it was all based on the English system of measurement. Though God only knows where they got their monetary system from.
> > > > >
> > > > > <https://www.metricmetal.com/history-of-the-metric-system/>
> > > > > 1957: The U.S. Army and Marine Corps adopted the metric system. Used
> > > > > as the basis for their weapons and equipment.
> > > > >
> > > > > NASA is all metric after the Mars Climate Orbiter crashed due to a
> > > > > mixup of units.
> > > > > <https://www.simscale.com/blog/nasa-mars-climate-orbiter-metric/>
> > > > >
> > > > > Unfortunately, the USAF still uses a mixture of units from both the
> > > > > imperial and metric systems.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1988: Congress passed the Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act. This
> > > > > act called for all federal government agencies to use the metric
> > > > > system for business by the end of 1992.
> > > > >
> > > > > The US medical system is all metric.
> > > > > US motor vehicles are all metric.
> > > > > US packaged foods are marked in both imperial and metric, but are
> > > > > increasingly bought and sold in metric units.
> > > > >
> > > > > IBM PC based computers and descendents are a mixture. The two main
> > > > > hardware threads are M3 and 6-32 UNC.
> > > > >
> > > > > More:
> > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_States>
> > > > >
> > > > >> I use the metric system occasionally to humor people with poor math skills.
> > > > >
> > > > > That doesn't seem to be working well for your arithmetic abilities.
> > > > >
> > > > >> But knowing that one inch is equal to 2.54xxx cm doesn't make it easy to work with.
> > > > >
> > > > > Neither does Pi = 3.1415 etc or any of the other conversion factors in
> > > > > common use. Fortunately, the government arrived to help simplify
> > > > > things:
> > > > > "Indiana Pi Bill"
> > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Regarding legislation. I asked a customer (president of a
> > > > large builder) about the Clinton era stipulation that
> > > > government buildings henceforth shall be of metric
> > > > dimensions. I wondered if his suppliers conformed.
> > > >
> > > > He laughed. When he stopped he said they hadn't changed
> > > > anything except to add a software function so their plotters
> > > > could make metric versions of their usual plans, e.g, a 36
> > > > inch window is marked as 901mm and so on.
> > > Then the window didn't fit.
> > >
> > > Lou
> > There appears to be the problem with your use of English again Lou. Andrew was making a point and not trying to be accurate in his conversion. You seem to be in an argumentative mood lately. Is this because you haven't adapted to retirement yet? It does take time.
> It was a joke. My retirement last 3 weeks then I was asked if I would come back for half a year. I was happy to do that. Man, double income and free coffee ;-)
>
> Lou
Good for you. I am now getting job offers via these recruiters and FINALLY they have stopped asking for a degree and instead are asking for experience only. I doubt that I will go back to work since they all seem to be located in areas simply too far to commute to each morning.

And recruiters still haven't learned to tell you what a job is and instead tell you what sort of skills they're looking for. Since I have all of those skills it is a waste of time. And I have become very particular about the sort of job I will take - I will NOT work for Google or Apple. And rent is so excessive in that area that all of these new companies trying to bring Silicon Valley back (hint - they won't. The Democrat governor made certain of that) are way down in the far south of San Jose. From home that would be 40 miles.

Find a good money manager and stick as much into investments as possible. Now that I have a good money manager I'm pretty surprised at how fast my investments have grown. I had my money at three other firms and my investments were losing money every month. Especially when Obama got into office. (Oh wait - according to Liebermann who has nothing to his name, that isn't possible because Obama was wonderful).

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, 06 Nov 2023 22:19:01 -0500, Radey Shouman
> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Mon, 06 Nov 2023 17:20:38 -0500, Radey Shouman
>>> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, November 6, 2023 at 12:38:43?PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>> On Monday, November 6, 2023 at 8:16:16?PM UTC+1, pH wrote:
>>>>>> > On 2023-11-05, Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> > > On 11/4/2023 6:52 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>> > >> On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 11:31:36?PM UTC+1, Tom
>>>>>> > >> Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> > >>> I was under the impression that you could use 11 speed chain
>>>>>> > >>> rings on 12 speed chains (I know that the chain is narrower
>>>>>> > >>> but the teeth are tapered and should force themselves on even
>>>>>> > >>> though it might wear itself narrower).
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>> That didn't work so well, the large ring worked OK but the
>>>>>> > >>> small ring danced across the top of the teeth. So I ordered a
>>>>>> > >>> 105 12 speed chainset to replace the 11 speed FSA.
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>> There was another problem. I got the frame complete with the
>>>>>> > >>> FSA cranks and the bearing were like new and it spun easily so
>>>>>> > >>> I didn't bother to look at it. Well, it was a 175. I forgot
>>>>>> > >>> that I changed to a 172.5 because it was so hard to spin the
>>>>>> > >>> 175's. Well THAT sure reminded me. So not only was I stuck in
>>>>>> > >>> the large ring, but the cranks were too long. My average speed
>>>>>> > >>> on today's flat ride was a little slower than normal but not
>>>>>> > >>> any more than I might expect from riding with shingles. But my
>>>>>> > >>> legs are TIRED. And the guys I was with kept pulling away from
>>>>>> > >>> me pretty fast and it was hell to accelerate to catch them.
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>> So even though it was only 2" difference in crank length it
>>>>>> > >>> made a hell of a difference.
>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>> > >> Two inch difference? It is 2.5 mm difference that is 0.1
>>>>>> > >> inch. Stop using those Mickey Mouse units so you can just shift
>>>>>> > >> the decimal point instead of fractions or factors. 2.5 mm can’t
>>>>>> > >> be making a hell of a difference.
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > I shouldn't pile on, but: A two inch difference in crank
>>>>>> > > link would be
>>>>>> > > VERY obvious visually. That fact should have brought Tom to
>>>>>> > > his senses.
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > Well, obviously (to me) he meant 2 millimeters...just a typo of
>>>>>> > which I make
>>>>>> > so many.
>>>>>> If it is so critical as Tom says the difference between 175 mm and
>>>>>> 172.5 mm cranks is 2.5 mm and not 2 mm. Even for an Usian that is
>>>>>> not that difficult. But what Tom meant, if I understand him
>>>>>> correctly, is the height difference in top dead center between these
>>>>>> cranks when the saddle height is set in the bottom dead center which
>>>>>> is 2 times 2.5 mm = 5 mm = 5/25.4 = 0.2 in Mickey Mouse units AKA
>>>>>> inch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew just quoted some studies that were somewhat misleading. While
>>>>> they SAID that crank arm length didn't effect power output it was sort
>>>>> of covered up that crank arm length changed the pedal speed and so you
>>>>> had to correct your cadence to achieve the same power. In Andrew's
>>>>> reference there were other references to "studies" that said the same
>>>>> thing. Now maybe you can easily change your cadence at where you make
>>>>> your maximum power easily but wait until you're 79 before you tell me
>>>>> that it doesn't make any difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also we might comment that the metric system is the Mickey Mouse
>>>>> system designed to be used by people that can't use simple arithmetic
>>>>> and have even a hard time moving the decimal point back and
>>>>> forth. This is NOT "the American System" but the English
>>>>> system. Britannia did more than rule the waves - they invented the
>>>>> modern scientific method and it was all based on the English system of
>>>>> measurement. Though God only knows where they got their monetary
>>>>> system from.
>>>>
>>>>The English stopped using their traditional units for technical purposes
>>>>quite some time ago, so it seems at least defensible to call inches
>>>>"American" units. Mickey, after all, was invented here.
>>>>
>>>>> I use the metric system occasionally to humor people with poor math
>>>>> skills. But knowing that one inch is equal to 2.54xxx cm doesn't make
>>>>> it easy to work with.
>>>>
>>>>One inch is currently equal to *exactly* 25.4 mm, by definition. There
>>>>are no primary standards for English units.
>>>
>>> " Mickey, after all, was invented here." ???
>>>
>>> I even did a google search and according to the Cambridge Dictionary -
>>> which I believe is as "British" as it is possible to be "Mickey" has
>>> two meanings
>>>
>>> Mickey - a drug added to a drink, especially an alcoholic drink, in
>>> order to make the person who drinks it unconscious:
>>> or
>>> Mickey - take the mickey/mick (out of someone)
>>> UK informal, to laugh at someone and make them seem silly, in a funny
>>> or unkind way:
>>>
>>> I assume that you are using the later sense (:-)
>>
>>You're serious! I was talking about the mouse.
>
> I think I may have missed a beat there somewhere. I had assumed that
> you, who I assume to be British, had claimed to have invented
> Mickey... something, and as the Mouse was invented in the U.S. by
> USians it must be some other "Mickey".

I was born and raised in the US, and have only visited the UK once.

On Tue, 07 Nov 2023 16:46:43 -0500, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

>John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Mon, 06 Nov 2023 22:19:01 -0500, Radey Shouman
>> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 06 Nov 2023 17:20:38 -0500, Radey Shouman
>>>> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Monday, November 6, 2023 at 12:38:43?PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, November 6, 2023 at 8:16:16?PM UTC+1, pH wrote:
>>>>>>> > On 2023-11-05, Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> > > On 11/4/2023 6:52 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>> > >> On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 11:31:36?PM UTC+1, Tom
>>>>>>> > >> Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> > >>> I was under the impression that you could use 11 speed chain
>>>>>>> > >>> rings on 12 speed chains (I know that the chain is narrower
>>>>>>> > >>> but the teeth are tapered and should force themselves on even
>>>>>>> > >>> though it might wear itself narrower).
>>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>>> > >>> That didn't work so well, the large ring worked OK but the
>>>>>>> > >>> small ring danced across the top of the teeth. So I ordered a
>>>>>>> > >>> 105 12 speed chainset to replace the 11 speed FSA.
>>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>>> > >>> There was another problem. I got the frame complete with the
>>>>>>> > >>> FSA cranks and the bearing were like new and it spun easily so
>>>>>>> > >>> I didn't bother to look at it. Well, it was a 175. I forgot
>>>>>>> > >>> that I changed to a 172.5 because it was so hard to spin the
>>>>>>> > >>> 175's. Well THAT sure reminded me. So not only was I stuck in
>>>>>>> > >>> the large ring, but the cranks were too long. My average speed
>>>>>>> > >>> on today's flat ride was a little slower than normal but not
>>>>>>> > >>> any more than I might expect from riding with shingles. But my
>>>>>>> > >>> legs are TIRED. And the guys I was with kept pulling away from
>>>>>>> > >>> me pretty fast and it was hell to accelerate to catch them.
>>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>>> > >>> So even though it was only 2" difference in crank length it
>>>>>>> > >>> made a hell of a difference.
>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>> > >> Two inch difference? It is 2.5 mm difference that is 0.1
>>>>>>> > >> inch. Stop using those Mickey Mouse units so you can just shift
>>>>>>> > >> the decimal point instead of fractions or factors. 2.5 mm can’t
>>>>>>> > >> be making a hell of a difference.
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > I shouldn't pile on, but: A two inch difference in crank
>>>>>>> > > link would be
>>>>>>> > > VERY obvious visually. That fact should have brought Tom to
>>>>>>> > > his senses.
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > Well, obviously (to me) he meant 2 millimeters...just a typo of
>>>>>>> > which I make
>>>>>>> > so many.
>>>>>>> If it is so critical as Tom says the difference between 175 mm and
>>>>>>> 172.5 mm cranks is 2.5 mm and not 2 mm. Even for an Usian that is
>>>>>>> not that difficult. But what Tom meant, if I understand him
>>>>>>> correctly, is the height difference in top dead center between these
>>>>>>> cranks when the saddle height is set in the bottom dead center which
>>>>>>> is 2 times 2.5 mm = 5 mm = 5/25.4 = 0.2 in Mickey Mouse units AKA
>>>>>>> inch.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew just quoted some studies that were somewhat misleading. While
>>>>>> they SAID that crank arm length didn't effect power output it was sort
>>>>>> of covered up that crank arm length changed the pedal speed and so you
>>>>>> had to correct your cadence to achieve the same power. In Andrew's
>>>>>> reference there were other references to "studies" that said the same
>>>>>> thing. Now maybe you can easily change your cadence at where you make
>>>>>> your maximum power easily but wait until you're 79 before you tell me
>>>>>> that it doesn't make any difference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also we might comment that the metric system is the Mickey Mouse
>>>>>> system designed to be used by people that can't use simple arithmetic
>>>>>> and have even a hard time moving the decimal point back and
>>>>>> forth. This is NOT "the American System" but the English
>>>>>> system. Britannia did more than rule the waves - they invented the
>>>>>> modern scientific method and it was all based on the English system of
>>>>>> measurement. Though God only knows where they got their monetary
>>>>>> system from.
>>>>>
>>>>>The English stopped using their traditional units for technical purposes
>>>>>quite some time ago, so it seems at least defensible to call inches
>>>>>"American" units. Mickey, after all, was invented here.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I use the metric system occasionally to humor people with poor math
>>>>>> skills. But knowing that one inch is equal to 2.54xxx cm doesn't make
>>>>>> it easy to work with.
>>>>>
>>>>>One inch is currently equal to *exactly* 25.4 mm, by definition. There
>>>>>are no primary standards for English units.
>>>>
>>>> " Mickey, after all, was invented here." ???
>>>>
>>>> I even did a google search and according to the Cambridge Dictionary -
>>>> which I believe is as "British" as it is possible to be "Mickey" has
>>>> two meanings
>>>>
>>>> Mickey - a drug added to a drink, especially an alcoholic drink, in
>>>> order to make the person who drinks it unconscious:
>>>> or
>>>> Mickey - take the mickey/mick (out of someone)
>>>> UK informal, to laugh at someone and make them seem silly, in a funny
>>>> or unkind way:
>>>>
>>>> I assume that you are using the later sense (:-)
>>>
>>>You're serious! I was talking about the mouse.
>>
>> I think I may have missed a beat there somewhere. I had assumed that
>> you, who I assume to be British, had claimed to have invented
>> Mickey... something, and as the Mouse was invented in the U.S. by
>> USians it must be some other "Mickey".
>
>I was born and raised in the US, and have only visited the UK once.

Well, I must apologize then as I apparently had confused with the
bloke that rides in London.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 09:28:21 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/6/2023 9:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 11/6/2023 6:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> Regarding legislation. I asked a customer (president of a
>>> large builder) about the Clinton era stipulation that
>>> government buildings henceforth shall be of metric
>>> dimensions. I wondered if his suppliers conformed.
>>>
>>> He laughed.  When he stopped he said they hadn't changed
>>> anything except to add a software function so their
>>> plotters could make metric versions of their usual plans,
>>> e.g, a 36 inch window is marked as 901mm and so on.
>>
>> Or maybe 914mm?
>>
>> At this point, changing building materials over to truly
>> metric dimensions would be extremely difficult.
>>
>> Canada is officially metric but uses a hodgepodge of the two
>> systems.
>>
>
>USAF has tooling parts and hardware in great profusion
>worldwide which is why US aircraft will not be metric any
>time soon.

Well they could do what the Army did and re label the .223 Remington
as a 5.56mm (:-)
We would then be using a 6.35mm wrench instead of a 1/4in and a 12.7mm
instead of a 1/2in, and so on.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 11/7/2023 4:58 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 09:28:21 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 11/6/2023 9:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 11/6/2023 6:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Regarding legislation. I asked a customer (president of a
>>>> large builder) about the Clinton era stipulation that
>>>> government buildings henceforth shall be of metric
>>>> dimensions. I wondered if his suppliers conformed.
>>>>
>>>> He laughed.  When he stopped he said they hadn't changed
>>>> anything except to add a software function so their
>>>> plotters could make metric versions of their usual plans,
>>>> e.g, a 36 inch window is marked as 901mm and so on.
>>>
>>> Or maybe 914mm?
>>>
>>> At this point, changing building materials over to truly
>>> metric dimensions would be extremely difficult.
>>>
>>> Canada is officially metric but uses a hodgepodge of the two
>>> systems.
>>>
>>
>> USAF has tooling parts and hardware in great profusion
>> worldwide which is why US aircraft will not be metric any
>> time soon.
>
> Well they could do what the Army did and re label the .223 Remington
> as a 5.56mm (:-)
> We would then be using a 6.35mm wrench instead of a 1/4in and a 12.7mm
> instead of a 1/2in, and so on.
>
We've previously discussed the full airliner which left
Birmingham with a new windshield and a few handfuls of the
wrong bolts. The windshield popped out once it pressurized,
sucked the pilot halfway out and only by luck didn't kill
anyone.

https://simpleflying.com/british-airways-flight-5390/
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 17:48:14 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/7/2023 4:58 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 09:28:21 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/6/2023 9:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 11/6/2023 6:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding legislation. I asked a customer (president of a
>>>>> large builder) about the Clinton era stipulation that
>>>>> government buildings henceforth shall be of metric
>>>>> dimensions. I wondered if his suppliers conformed.
>>>>>
>>>>> He laughed.  When he stopped he said they hadn't changed
>>>>> anything except to add a software function so their
>>>>> plotters could make metric versions of their usual plans,
>>>>> e.g, a 36 inch window is marked as 901mm and so on.
>>>>
>>>> Or maybe 914mm?
>>>>
>>>> At this point, changing building materials over to truly
>>>> metric dimensions would be extremely difficult.
>>>>
>>>> Canada is officially metric but uses a hodgepodge of the two
>>>> systems.
>>>>
>>>
>>> USAF has tooling parts and hardware in great profusion
>>> worldwide which is why US aircraft will not be metric any
>>> time soon.
>>
>> Well they could do what the Army did and re label the .223 Remington
>> as a 5.56mm (:-)
>> We would then be using a 6.35mm wrench instead of a 1/4in and a 12.7mm
>> instead of a 1/2in, and so on.
>>
>We've previously discussed the full airliner which left
>Birmingham with a new windshield and a few handfuls of the
>wrong bolts. The windshield popped out once it pressurized,
>sucked the pilot halfway out and only by luck didn't kill
>anyone.
>
>https://simpleflying.com/british-airways-flight-5390/

That is one of the reasons that only properly trained and qualified
technicians are supposed to work on airplanes (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

Tom Kunich wrote:
> My toolbox for work on larger items like cars has metric on one side and SI on the other. I might add that on ALL of the English sports cars I owned (which was a lot) they all used SI except I think the MGTC which I seem to remember used Whitworth.
>
Metric and SI are basically the same, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_System_of_Units

Henk

On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 11:40:04 PM UTC-8, Henk Fictorie - Ulrich wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > My toolbox for work on larger items like cars has metric on one side and SI on the other. I might add that on ALL of the English sports cars I owned (which was a lot) they all used SI except I think the MGTC which I seem to remember used Whitworth.
> >
> Metric and SI are basically the same, see
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system and
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_System_of_Units
>
> Henk

That was another mistake. I mean Imperial. Though that should have been obvious in its usage. So you should have corrected me simply by saying "You mean Imperial and not SI". Welcome to the group. Are you a recreational cyclist? How old are you?

On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 12:46:49 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>I am now getting job offers via these recruiters...

How are these recruiters finding you? You have your online resume
marked under "About" as:

<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>
"Retired and not looking anymore
Electronics Engineer, Firmware Programmer"

<https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7038636103788085248/>
"I am 78 years old and have been retired for 13 years."

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558