Hello,

I visit webpages using firefox and noscript. Recent changes by Analog
now display every page with a page filling "X" and "Q" on top.
Probably the remainders of no-script hindering the webpage to open the
"allow us to f*ck with your data" questions.

Annoying...
--
Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 1623569 ------- Fax. 06151 1623305 ---------

Uwe Bonnes <bon@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:

> noscript

Are you sure you want to be running noscript? How about Adblock Plus?

https://blog.adblockplus.org/blog/attention-noscript-users

--
MRM

On a sunny day (25 Apr 2022 08:57:10 GMT) it happened Uwe Bonnes
<bon@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in
<jcn636F643gU1@mid.individual.net>:

>Hello,
>
>I visit webpages using firefox and noscript. Recent changes by Analog
>now display every page with a page filling "X" and "Q" on top.
>Probably the remainders of no-script hindering the webpage to open the
>"allow us to f*ck with your data" questions.
>
>Annoying...

Same problem here with seamonkey, either complains about old certificates
or just gives an error on some sites, or displays nothing usable.
I now use chromium... (on a raspberry, or on the laptop via ssh from an other raspberry).

html used to be a nice system, once started writing a html option
for my newsreader and started thinking about writing a web browser
after I got some thing up and running the standard had changed, they have been changing
standards and adding useless stuff ever since. Java did not make it any better,
Not for the user, but for the advertising..
Modern websites made by 'we make you a website developer in 3 weeks' coders with silly tools.
User tracking..
Face it, internet is dead, back to posting pigeons.
drums in the wild
on the reality side sending some microSD cards with X TB data with a drone is already now faster and cheaper.
Drones are the future :-)
Recently however you need a license for drones here, and here I cannot fly close to the mil airport that will be nuked
by Russia soon if I did read it right,
https://www.rt.com/russia/554278-threat-nuclear-danger-ukraine/

On 2022-04-25 11:19, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (25 Apr 2022 08:57:10 GMT) it happened Uwe Bonnes
> <bon@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in
> <jcn636F643gU1@mid.individual.net>:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I visit webpages using firefox and noscript. Recent changes by Analog
>> now display every page with a page filling "X" and "Q" on top.
>> Probably the remainders of no-script hindering the webpage to open the
>> "allow us to f*ck with your data" questions.
>>
>> Annoying...
>
> Same problem here with seamonkey, either complains about old certificates
> or just gives an error on some sites, or displays nothing usable.
> I now use chromium... (on a raspberry, or on the laptop via ssh from an other raspberry).
>
> html used to be a nice system, once started writing a html option
> for my newsreader and started thinking about writing a web browser
> after I got some thing up and running the standard had changed, they have been changing
> standards and adding useless stuff ever since. Java did not make it any better,
> Not for the user, but for the advertising..
> Modern websites made by 'we make you a website developer in 3 weeks' coders with silly tools.
> User tracking..
> Face it, internet is dead, back to posting pigeons. [...]

It's getting worse by the day, indeed. I've seen sites that
are *only* JavaScript, several Mbytes of it, which then load
the equivalent of a mere kbyte or two of real content, and
even that only if you have the very latest browser.

What a waste. Incredible.

Even CERN's own web sites sell our souls to Google, use loads
of cookies and JavaScript and refuse to serve contents if you
don't accept either. Sir Tim would be horrified.

Jeroen Belleman

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> On 2022-04-25 11:19, Jan Panteltje wrote:
?? [...]
>> Face it, internet is dead, back to posting pigeons. [...]
>
> It's getting worse by the day, indeed. I've seen sites that
> are *only* JavaScript, several Mbytes of it, which then load
> the equivalent of a mere kbyte or two of real content, and
> even that only if you have the very latest browser.

It's like a resurgence of the flash-sites of the late '90s / early '00s
all over again.

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--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

On 04/25/2022 02:57 AM, Uwe Bonnes wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I visit webpages using firefox and noscript. Recent changes by Analog
> now display every page with a page filling "X" and "Q" on top.
> Probably the remainders of no-script hindering the webpage to open the
> "allow us to f*ck with your data" questions.
>
> Annoying...
>

Do yourself a favor and ditch Firefox. I used it for years but the just
aren't keeping up. I use Brave but any of the chromium based browsers
will do including the new Edge if you're on Windows.

On 04/25/2022 05:04 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>> On 2022-04-25 11:19, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> ?? [...]
>>> Face it, internet is dead, back to posting pigeons. [...]
>>
>> It's getting worse by the day, indeed. I've seen sites that
>> are *only* JavaScript, several Mbytes of it, which then load
>> the equivalent of a mere kbyte or two of real content, and
>> even that only if you have the very latest browser.
>
> It's like a resurgence of the flash-sites of the late '90s / early '00s
> all over again.

This one may be here to stay. Angular, React, Vue, etc. Users have come
to expect single page applications and they take JavaScript -- a lot of
it. We're developing an Angular app and I don't even want to think about
how much JS.

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On 04/25/2022 02:57 AM, Uwe Bonnes wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I visit webpages using firefox and noscript. Recent changes by Analog
>> now display every page with a page filling "X" and "Q" on top.
>> Probably the remainders of no-script hindering the webpage to open the
>> "allow us to f*ck with your data" questions.
>>
>> Annoying...
>>
>
> Do yourself a favor and ditch Firefox. I used it for years but the just
> aren't keeping up. I use Brave but any of the chromium based browsers
> will do including the new Edge if you're on Windows.

Firefox is far superior to Chrome, Opera, SeaMonkey, or any other browser.
I have tried them all.

I only use Chrome to connect to Canadian Tire, which requires Chrome to
view products and add them to their shopping cart.

Other than that, Chrome is a useless browser. It screws up the fonts in
Youtube, and loses synchronization between video and sound. It often runs
into 100% CPU which garbles the playback or stops it completely. I found
many other problems which I cannot recall, but I ended up removing it from
my computer.

The problem the op is having is noscript. Remove it and install AdBlock
Plus instead. (Yes, there is a version for Chrome.)

https://adblockplus.org/

--
MRM

On 04/25/2022 11:01 PM, Mike Monett wrote:
> Firefox is far superior to Chrome, Opera, SeaMonkey, or any other browser.
> I have tried them all.

Your experience differs from mine, at least for the last several years.
I'm running Firefox 99.0.1 on my Linux box. At least it no longer locks
the machine up but it crashes on a couple of websites I visit and at
other odd times.

It's been losing market share for several years. Mozilla made several
bad decisions and hasn't been keeping up. Your problem with Canadian
Tire is one symptom.

It is better than Safari though. Even if you put FF on an Apple device
it uses webkit.

On 4/25/2022 1:57 AM, Uwe Bonnes wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I visit webpages using firefox and noscript. Recent changes by Analog
> now display every page with a page filling "X" and "Q" on top.
> Probably the remainders of no-script hindering the webpage to open the
> "allow us to f*ck with your data" questions.

Assuming you mean analog.com, I run FF w/NoScript and see no problems
viewing the ~dozen pages I randomly visited.

W/o "analog.com" in the whitelist, there was a prompt to "Enable Javascript"
but it didn't seem to hinder viewing (N.B. gstatic.com is enabled)

When analog.com was whitelisted, a dialog asked me to accept cookies.
(fine, they will be purged when I close the browser).

I don't seem to be able to reproduce your problem.

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On 04/25/2022 11:01 PM, Mike Monett wrote:
>> Firefox is far superior to Chrome, Opera, SeaMonkey, or any other
>> browser. I have tried them all.
>
> Your experience differs from mine, at least for the last several years.
> I'm running Firefox 99.0.1 on my Linux box. At least it no longer locks
> the machine up but it crashes on a couple of websites I visit and at
> other odd times.
>
> It's been losing market share for several years. Mozilla made several
> bad decisions and hasn't been keeping up. Your problem with Canadian
> Tire is one symptom.
>
> It is better than Safari though. Even if you put FF on an Apple device
> it uses webkit.

I think losing market share is more due to cellphones. Apple have their
own browser. Android has Chrome as their default browser, and few will
take the time to switch or even know how.

Firefox is not the only browser with problems on Canadian Tire. Seamonkey
screws up even more badly. It is completely unusable. I suspect it's not
the browser, but the way Canadian Tire writes their HTML.

Canadian Tire has no programming expertise - you can tell by their
requiring a particular browser (Chrome) to access their site.

They undoubtedly hired an outfit that has no clue what they are doing, and
cannot program for a broad range of browsers like other sites. So it's not
Firefox or SeaMonkey - it's Canadian Tire.

I have FF 99.0.1 and 96.0.2 running on Win7 under virtualbox. It is an
extremely stable and reliable browser. I also have Chrome, but I only use
it when I need to order from CanTire. I also have SeaMonkey running, and
have tried Opera, Vivaldi, Pale Moon, and many others but removed them.

Linux is a completely different operating system and probably has far
fewer users than Windows. So it's not surprising is is far less refined. I
also have Firefox running on Ubuntu, but it is a very old version and I
rarely ever use it. However, it was quite reliable in the period it was
needed.

I don't know what to recommend for you. Google suggests

Brave Browser
Falkon Browser
Google Chrome
Midori Browser
Mozilla Firefox
Opera Browser
Pale Moon
Vivaldi Browser

But I have never tried these on Ubuntu.

--
MRM

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
....
> W/o "analog.com" in the whitelist, there was a prompt to "Enable Javascript"
> but it didn't seem to hinder viewing (N.B. gstatic.com is enabled)
>
> When analog.com was whitelisted, a dialog asked me to accept cookies.
> (fine, they will be purged when I close the browser).
>
> I don't seem to be able to reproduce your problem.

Today the webbpage appears in usefull style again. Perhaps they fixed it...

--
Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 1623569 ------- Fax. 06151 1623305 ---------

Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote:

> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>> On 04/25/2022 11:01 PM, Mike Monett wrote:
>>> Firefox is far superior to Chrome, Opera, SeaMonkey, or any other
>>> browser. I have tried them all.
>>
>> Your experience differs from mine, at least for the last several years.
>> I'm running Firefox 99.0.1 on my Linux box. At least it no longer locks
>> the machine up but it crashes on a couple of websites I visit and at
>> other odd times.

Actually, I do have a suggestion. Start with the obvious. Wiggle all the
cables and connectors, including the memory cards. You may have a poor
connection, and bad crimp, or a bad cable. Load one of the other browsers
and see if it crashes.

I always add a bit of vaseline to my connectors before using them. This is
an old radio engineer's trick from the 1920's. It was taught to me by the
staff of radio station CFRB in Toronto. They used it whenever the antenna
feed lines showed a poor SWR.

The vaseline removes any dirt or oxide from the metal and allows a true
metal-to-metal contact.

--
MRM

rbowman wrote:
> On 04/25/2022 05:04 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA512
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>> On 2022-04-25 11:19, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> ?? [...]
>>>> Face it, internet is dead, back to posting pigeons. [...]
>>>
>>> It's getting worse by the day, indeed. I've seen sites that
>>> are *only* JavaScript, several Mbytes of it, which then load
>>> the equivalent of a mere kbyte or two of real content, and
>>> even that only if you have the very latest browser.
>>
>> It's like a resurgence of the flash-sites of the late '90s / early '00s
>> all over again.
>
> This one may be here to stay. Angular, React, Vue, etc. Users have come
> to expect single page applications and they take JavaScript -- a lot of
> it. We're developing an Angular app and I don't even want to think about
> how much JS.

I run every browser instance in its own disposable Qubes VM, so whatever
cruft they leave behind goes away when I close the browser (which shuts
down the VM). Good Medicine.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

rbowman wrote:
> On 04/25/2022 05:04 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> It's like a resurgence of the flash-sites of the late '90s / early '00s
>> all over again.
>
> This one may be here to stay. Angular, React, Vue, etc. Users have come
> to expect single page applications and they take JavaScript -- a lot of
> it. We're developing an Angular app and I don't even want to think about
> how much JS.

Such a shame, isn't it?

Oh well, The Web had a good run while it lasted. At least there's still
the rest of The Internet. :)

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--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:15:22 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>rbowman wrote:
>> On 04/25/2022 05:04 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA512
>>>
>>> Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>> On 2022-04-25 11:19, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> ?? [...]
>>>>> Face it, internet is dead, back to posting pigeons. [...]
>>>>
>>>> It's getting worse by the day, indeed. I've seen sites that
>>>> are *only* JavaScript, several Mbytes of it, which then load
>>>> the equivalent of a mere kbyte or two of real content, and
>>>> even that only if you have the very latest browser.
>>>
>>> It's like a resurgence of the flash-sites of the late '90s / early '00s
>>> all over again.
>>
>> This one may be here to stay. Angular, React, Vue, etc. Users have come
>> to expect single page applications and they take JavaScript -- a lot of
>> it. We're developing an Angular app and I don't even want to think about
>> how much JS.
>
>I run every browser instance in its own disposable Qubes VM, so whatever
>cruft they leave behind goes away when I close the browser (which shuts
>down the VM). Good Medicine.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

I keep my bookmarks in a Dropbox folder, all sorted. Firefox lets me
drag/drop links from the address bar into my bookmarks folder.

The browser can die and I still have the bookmarks.

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:15:22 -0400, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> rbowman wrote:
>>> On 04/25/2022 05:04 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: SHA512
>>>>
>>>> Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-04-25 11:19, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> ?? [...]
>>>>>> Face it, internet is dead, back to posting pigeons. [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> It's getting worse by the day, indeed. I've seen sites that
>>>>> are *only* JavaScript, several Mbytes of it, which then load
>>>>> the equivalent of a mere kbyte or two of real content, and
>>>>> even that only if you have the very latest browser.
>>>>
>>>> It's like a resurgence of the flash-sites of the late '90s / early '00s
>>>> all over again.
>>>
>>> This one may be here to stay. Angular, React, Vue, etc. Users have come
>>> to expect single page applications and they take JavaScript -- a lot of
>>> it. We're developing an Angular app and I don't even want to think about
>>> how much JS.
>>
>> I run every browser instance in its own disposable Qubes VM, so whatever
>> cruft they leave behind goes away when I close the browser (which shuts
>> down the VM). Good Medicine.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>
>
> I keep my bookmarks in a Dropbox folder, all sorted. Firefox lets me
> drag/drop links from the address bar into my bookmarks folder.
>
> The browser can die and I still have the bookmarks.

I use znail.com for holding bookmarks. Party like it's 1998.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 12:48:30 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:15:22 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>
>>> rbowman wrote:
>>>> On 04/25/2022 05:04 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> Hash: SHA512
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-04-25 11:19, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> ?? [...]
>>>>>>> Face it, internet is dead, back to posting pigeons. [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's getting worse by the day, indeed. I've seen sites that
>>>>>> are *only* JavaScript, several Mbytes of it, which then load
>>>>>> the equivalent of a mere kbyte or two of real content, and
>>>>>> even that only if you have the very latest browser.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's like a resurgence of the flash-sites of the late '90s / early '00s
>>>>> all over again.
>>>>
>>>> This one may be here to stay. Angular, React, Vue, etc. Users have come
>>>> to expect single page applications and they take JavaScript -- a lot of
>>>> it. We're developing an Angular app and I don't even want to think about
>>>> how much JS.
>>>
>>> I run every browser instance in its own disposable Qubes VM, so whatever
>>> cruft they leave behind goes away when I close the browser (which shuts
>>> down the VM). Good Medicine.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil Hobbs
>>
>>
>> I keep my bookmarks in a Dropbox folder, all sorted. Firefox lets me
>> drag/drop links from the address bar into my bookmarks folder.
>>
>> The browser can die and I still have the bookmarks.
>
>I use znail.com for holding bookmarks. Party like it's 1998.
>
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

I use dropbox to share files for working at home too, so the bookmark
thing fits right in. I have some terabytes of db space. They (actually
amazon) must buy hard drives cheap.

If dropbox explodes or something, all the files are still on my
various PC's.

Firefox is mildly annoying about dragging bookmarks out to folders.
After version upgrades, it randomly doesn't work and I have to muck an
about:config setting to fix that.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 12:48:30 -0400, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:15:22 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> rbowman wrote:
>>>>> On 04/25/2022 05:04 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2022-04-25 11:19, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>> ?? [...]
>>>>>>>> Face it, internet is dead, back to posting pigeons.
>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's getting worse by the day, indeed. I've seen sites
>>>>>>> that are *only* JavaScript, several Mbytes of it, which
>>>>>>> then load the equivalent of a mere kbyte or two of real
>>>>>>> content, and even that only if you have the very latest
>>>>>>> browser.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's like a resurgence of the flash-sites of the late '90s
>>>>>> / early '00s all over again.
>>>>>
>>>>> This one may be here to stay. Angular, React, Vue, etc. Users
>>>>> have come to expect single page applications and they take
>>>>> JavaScript -- a lot of it. We're developing an Angular app
>>>>> and I don't even want to think about how much JS.
>>>>
>>>> I run every browser instance in its own disposable Qubes VM, so
>>>> whatever cruft they leave behind goes away when I close the
>>>> browser (which shuts down the VM). Good Medicine.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>
>>>
>>> I keep my bookmarks in a Dropbox folder, all sorted. Firefox lets
>>> me drag/drop links from the address bar into my bookmarks
>>> folder.
>>>
>>> The browser can die and I still have the bookmarks.
>>
>> I use znail.com for holding bookmarks. Party like it's 1998.
>>

> I use dropbox to share files for working at home too, so the
> bookmark thing fits right in. I have some terabytes of db space. They
> (actually amazon) must buy hard drives cheap.

> If dropbox explodes or something, all the files are still on my
> various PC's.

Yeah, I used to use DB a fair amount too. It was the auto-delete thing
that spooked me initially--if I deleted a file by mistake, and DB
_hadn't_ exploded, all the 'backups' disappeared as well.

Now of course I have a bunch of NDAs and court protective orders that
require me to take super good care of various bits of IP, so anything
that has to be accessible to an external party (such as DB) has to be
encrypted, which is a pain because it defeats incremental updating.

Nowadays I do it semi-manually, using SSHFS or rsync by way of a socket
port forwarded through the main firewall, with various scripts for
various jobs. Project files are all version-controlled using git, and
replicated at several sites. That way any fat-fingeredness on my part
doesn't lead to permanent losses.

The super-secret sauce doesn't go on github or gitlab, even in private
repositories.

> Firefox is mildly annoying about dragging bookmarks out to folders.
> After version upgrades, it randomly doesn't work and I have to muck
> an about:config setting to fix that.

I'm sufficiently fond of the disposable-VM thing that I really want to
start with the equivalent of a clean install every time to prevent nasty
things such as APTs, Lazarus trackers and immortal cookies.

One of my dispVM templates has some add-ons installed, such as Noscript,
Privacy Badger, a useragent switcher, and a couple of downloaders.

The others don't--just a clean Firefox, Chromium, or torbrowser.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 15:16:17 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>John Larkin wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 12:48:30 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>
>>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:15:22 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> rbowman wrote:
>>>>>> On 04/25/2022 05:04 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2022-04-25 11:19, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>> ?? [...]
>>>>>>>>> Face it, internet is dead, back to posting pigeons.
>>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's getting worse by the day, indeed. I've seen sites
>>>>>>>> that are *only* JavaScript, several Mbytes of it, which
>>>>>>>> then load the equivalent of a mere kbyte or two of real
>>>>>>>> content, and even that only if you have the very latest
>>>>>>>> browser.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's like a resurgence of the flash-sites of the late '90s
>>>>>>> / early '00s all over again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This one may be here to stay. Angular, React, Vue, etc. Users
>>>>>> have come to expect single page applications and they take
>>>>>> JavaScript -- a lot of it. We're developing an Angular app
>>>>>> and I don't even want to think about how much JS.
>>>>>
>>>>> I run every browser instance in its own disposable Qubes VM, so
>>>>> whatever cruft they leave behind goes away when I close the
>>>>> browser (which shuts down the VM). Good Medicine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I keep my bookmarks in a Dropbox folder, all sorted. Firefox lets
>>>> me drag/drop links from the address bar into my bookmarks
>>>> folder.
>>>>
>>>> The browser can die and I still have the bookmarks.
>>>
>>> I use znail.com for holding bookmarks. Party like it's 1998.
>>>
>
>> I use dropbox to share files for working at home too, so the
>> bookmark thing fits right in. I have some terabytes of db space. They
>> (actually amazon) must buy hard drives cheap.
>
>> If dropbox explodes or something, all the files are still on my
>> various PC's.
>
>Yeah, I used to use DB a fair amount too. It was the auto-delete thing
>that spooked me initially--if I deleted a file by mistake, and DB
>_hadn't_ exploded, all the 'backups' disappeared as well.

Well, yes, but theoretically old revs can be recovered. I copy my
entire db to a real backup drive once in a while. I'm psychotic about
backups.

We do an entire company backup to a usb hard drive every month or so,
and treat it as write-once, never over-written. I scatter the drives
all over California. I add my dropbox files and photos and whatever to
them too.

I also have a dropbox folder for all the pictures I take, on my phone
or a microscope or whatever. That is somewhat organized.

I have a db folder "Public" for files linked from sed or wherever,
non-secret stuff.

>
>Now of course I have a bunch of NDAs and court protective orders that
>require me to take super good care of various bits of IP, so anything
>that has to be accessible to an external party (such as DB) has to be
>encrypted, which is a pain because it defeats incremental updating.
>
>Nowadays I do it semi-manually, using SSHFS or rsync by way of a socket
>port forwarded through the main firewall, with various scripts for
>various jobs. Project files are all version-controlled using git, and
>replicated at several sites. That way any fat-fingeredness on my part
>doesn't lead to permanent losses.
>
>The super-secret sauce doesn't go on github or gitlab, even in private
>repositories.
>
>> Firefox is mildly annoying about dragging bookmarks out to folders.
>> After version upgrades, it randomly doesn't work and I have to muck
>> an about:config setting to fix that.
>
>I'm sufficiently fond of the disposable-VM thing that I really want to
>start with the equivalent of a clean install every time to prevent nasty
>things such as APTs, Lazarus trackers and immortal cookies.

I need a good cookie manager. I see sites that add 50 tracking
cookies.

>
>One of my dispVM templates has some add-ons installed, such as Noscript,
>Privacy Badger, a useragent switcher, and a couple of downloaders.
>
>The others don't--just a clean Firefox, Chromium, or torbrowser.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs
--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

On 4/26/2022 7:47 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
> rbowman wrote:
>> On 04/25/2022 05:04 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>> It's like a resurgence of the flash-sites of the late '90s / early '00s
>>> all over again.
>>
>> This one may be here to stay. Angular, React, Vue, etc. Users have come
>> to expect single page applications and they take JavaScript -- a lot of
>> it. We're developing an Angular app and I don't even want to think about
>> how much JS.
>
> Such a shame, isn't it?

The original vision didn't address the sort of interactions that users
(and providers) would want. So, the Web has just become a delivery
vehicle for virtual machine applets. In that sense, it is doing an
admirable job adjusting to constantly evolving interface demands.

[Imagine gopher(1) trying to do all this!]

Witness the number of cross-linked sites that most pages access just
to "deliver" a page's content (cuz they aren't *giving* you something
but, rather, trying to TAKE something FROM you!)

> Oh well, The Web had a good run while it lasted. At least there's still
> the rest of The Internet. :)

The bigger "threat" is the recognition that more folks consume content
using phones (tiny screens, piss poor user entry). It won't be long
before we find pages that really only make sense in a phone's aspect
ratio! (there is some skill required to build pages that can be equally
accessible in a wide range of form factors, etc.)

On 04/26/2022 03:09 PM, Don Y wrote:
> The bigger "threat" is the recognition that more folks consume content
> using phones (tiny screens, piss poor user entry). It won't be long
> before we find pages that really only make sense in a phone's aspect
> ratio! (there is some skill required to build pages that can be equally
> accessible in a wide range of form factors, etc.)

Even 7" tablets are a challenge.

On 04/26/2022 02:06 AM, Mike Monett wrote:
> Firefox is not the only browser with problems on Canadian Tire. Seamonkey
> screws up even more badly. It is completely unusable. I suspect it's not
> the browser, but the way Canadian Tire writes their HTML.

Well, yeah...

https://www.seamonkey-project.org/

"Under the hood, SeaMonkey uses much of the same Mozilla Firefox source
code which powers such products as Thunderbird. "

It's what is under the hood that counts. Even Opera dropped Presto and
started using chromium code.

I use Brave, another child of chromium, on most of my machines. I have
it on this box but it is an older version. Updating is problematic since
it's OpenSUSE 13.2 from 2014. I missed leaping to Leap so at this point
it would be a clean install. The hardware is the same vintage. I'm
definitely in the 'if it ain't broken' camp.

Vivaldi is an interesting one. When Opera switched from Presto they also
dropped many of Opera's distinctive features upsetting the fans. Vivaldi
replicates those features despite also being a chromium derivative.

There's a whole cottage industry in cross-browser testing. Speaking as a
developer rather than a user, it's a pain. One bright development was
when MS redid Edge to use the chromium code. If there was one browser
that was guaranteed to break whatever you were trying to do, it was IE.

On 4/26/2022 8:05 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On 04/26/2022 03:09 PM, Don Y wrote:
>> The bigger "threat" is the recognition that more folks consume content
>> using phones (tiny screens, piss poor user entry). It won't be long
>> before we find pages that really only make sense in a phone's aspect
>> ratio! (there is some skill required to build pages that can be equally
>> accessible in a wide range of form factors, etc.)
>
> Even 7" tablets are a challenge.

Long ago, I made the decision that I wanted control over presentation
instead of flexibility in presentation. This imposes on the viewer/user
to have a suitable "presentation device". But, makes MY job *so* much
easier. I can concentrate on what I want to say/show instead of having
to anticipate how many different "compromises" will be imposed in the
rendering.

E.g., I often put animations in PDFs to better illustrate some concept
in an interactive manner. Hoping that the user can render that animation
on their "browser" just makes more work for me. Wanna view it on an
incompatible browser? Then you get a substandard document. Too bad,
so sad.

Likewise adding audio to a (typically) "visual" presentation. E.g.,
to illustrate how words like "mash" are pronounced differently in
different regions (to say something "rhymes with bash" is ambiguous)

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On 04/26/2022 02:06 AM, Mike Monett wrote:
>> Firefox is not the only browser with problems on Canadian Tire.
>> Seamonkey screws up even more badly. It is completely unusable. I
>> suspect it's not the browser, but the way Canadian Tire writes their
>> HTML.
>
> Well, yeah...
>
> https://www.seamonkey-project.org/
>
> "Under the hood, SeaMonkey uses much of the same Mozilla Firefox source
> code which powers such products as Thunderbird. "
>
> It's what is under the hood that counts. Even Opera dropped Presto and
> started using chromium code.
>
> I use Brave, another child of chromium, on most of my machines. I have
> it on this box but it is an older version. Updating is problematic since
> it's OpenSUSE 13.2 from 2014. I missed leaping to Leap so at this point
> it would be a clean install. The hardware is the same vintage. I'm
> definitely in the 'if it ain't broken' camp.
>
> Vivaldi is an interesting one. When Opera switched from Presto they also
> dropped many of Opera's distinctive features upsetting the fans. Vivaldi
> replicates those features despite also being a chromium derivative.
>
> There's a whole cottage industry in cross-browser testing. Speaking as a
> developer rather than a user, it's a pain. One bright development was
> when MS redid Edge to use the chromium code. If there was one browser
> that was guaranteed to break whatever you were trying to do, it was IE.

LOL!

Seamonkey may share some source with Thunderbird, but the browser wrecks
Canadian Tire in a completely different way.

It also does not seem to be able to use Firefox extensions, such as
AdBlock Plus, Audio Equalizer, I Don't Care About Cookies, and Javascript
Toggle On And Off. The last one is especially useful to block logon
requirements on many web pages. You just click on a small icon in the
upper righ corner of the screen. The Seamonkey version is extremely
cumbersome:

"Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Scripts & Plug-ins -> Enable
JavaScript for -> Navigator"

However, it may be blocked by NoScript

SeaMonkey might as well be a completely different browser.

I actually never use SeaMonkey for browsing. I only need it when receiving
an email that I must respond to that uses HTML. My regular email client is
Pimmy 3.5, which is plain ASCII text only. It does not understand HTML,
and is immune to <IFRAME> attacks.

It also handles an unlimited number of email addresses, which I use to
eliminate spam. If a site begins sending me spam, I merely delete it from
my list of email addresses. You can generate your own list at

http://www.e4ward.com/

I rarely get spam anymore. I once wrote my own spam filtering program
using Bayesian filtering, but it was simply too much work to keep up with
changes in spam messages and new techniques. The combination of Pimmy and
e4ward is much simpler and permanent.

--
MRM