https://soshanger.ca/en/home/3926-thread-star-rear-12-mmaxle-thread-identifier.html
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:05:15 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>https://soshanger.ca/en/home/3926-thread-star-rear-12-mmaxle-thread-identifier.html

Yes Sir! A badly needed tool!

But on the other hand you've got the axle (or would wouldn't need the
nut) and you've got the nut (or you wouldn't need the tool)...
And you've got fingers (or you wouldn't be doing the work) :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:05:15 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>https://soshanger.ca/en/home/3926-thread-star-rear-12-mmaxle-thread-identifier.html

Is this how cancer works? 1,199 rear derailleur hanger products:
<https://soshanger.ca/en/14-rear-derailleur-hangers>
The high mutation rate cancer is upon us.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 11/20/2023 8:59 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:05:15 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> https://soshanger.ca/en/home/3926-thread-star-rear-12-mmaxle-thread-identifier.html
>
> Yes Sir! A badly needed tool!
>
> But on the other hand you've got the axle (or would wouldn't need the
> nut) and you've got the nut (or you wouldn't need the tool)...
> And you've got fingers (or you wouldn't be doing the work) :-)

I was more impressed when I first learned a few years ago
that "12mm quill" covers five (not two, _five_!) thread
variants.

What the hell, why not six?
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/20/2023 9:06 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:05:15 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> https://soshanger.ca/en/home/3926-thread-star-rear-12-mmaxle-thread-identifier.html
>
> Is this how cancer works? 1,199 rear derailleur hanger products:
> <https://soshanger.ca/en/14-rear-derailleur-hangers>
> The high mutation rate cancer is upon us.
>

There are no senior engineers in management. Every kid with
a drawing program creates a new one just because "We didn't
make that one".

Last night I bought a headlight dimmer switch. Fits all GM
product (Corvair, Cadillac, Buick, GM pickups etc) 1962
through 1980. Our industry could learn something from that,
as could the modern auto business.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/21/2023 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/20/2023 9:06 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:05:15 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> https://soshanger.ca/en/home/3926-thread-star-rear-12-mmaxle-thread-identifier.html
>>
>> Is this how cancer works?  1,199 rear derailleur hanger products:
>> <https://soshanger.ca/en/14-rear-derailleur-hangers>
>> The high mutation rate cancer is upon us.
>>
>
> There are no senior engineers in management. Every kid with a drawing
> program creates a new one just because "We didn't make that one".
>
> Last night I bought a headlight dimmer switch. Fits all GM product
> (Corvair, Cadillac, Buick, GM pickups etc) 1962 through 1980. Our
> industry could learn something from that, as could the modern auto
> business.

Agreed. But then some here would say "But your headlight dimmer switch
isn't made from carbon fiber! And it doesn't upload data about how many
times you've used your high beams! And it doesn't work with a phone app!"

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> writes:

> On 11/21/2023 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/20/2023 9:06 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:05:15 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://soshanger.ca/en/home/3926-thread-star-rear-12-mmaxle-thread-identifier.html
>>>
>>> Is this how cancer works?  1,199 rear derailleur hanger products:
>>> <https://soshanger.ca/en/14-rear-derailleur-hangers>
>>> The high mutation rate cancer is upon us.
>>>
>> There are no senior engineers in management. Every kid with a
>> drawing program creates a new one just because "We didn't make that
>> one".
>> Last night I bought a headlight dimmer switch. Fits all GM product
>> (Corvair, Cadillac, Buick, GM pickups etc) 1962 through 1980. Our
>> industry could learn something from that, as could the modern auto
>> business.
>
> Agreed. But then some here would say "But your headlight dimmer switch
> isn't made from carbon fiber! And it doesn't upload data about how
> many times you've used your high beams! And it doesn't work with a
> phone app!"

In the case of a dimmer switch, it's not integrated into a fragile and
complicated stalk on the steering column. I don't understand what was
wrong with the dimmer switch on the floor.

On 11/21/2023 9:54 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
>> On 11/21/2023 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 11/20/2023 9:06 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:05:15 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://soshanger.ca/en/home/3926-thread-star-rear-12-mmaxle-thread-identifier.html
>>>>
>>>> Is this how cancer works?  1,199 rear derailleur hanger products:
>>>> <https://soshanger.ca/en/14-rear-derailleur-hangers>
>>>> The high mutation rate cancer is upon us.
>>>>
>>> There are no senior engineers in management. Every kid with a
>>> drawing program creates a new one just because "We didn't make that
>>> one".
>>> Last night I bought a headlight dimmer switch. Fits all GM product
>>> (Corvair, Cadillac, Buick, GM pickups etc) 1962 through 1980. Our
>>> industry could learn something from that, as could the modern auto
>>> business.
>>
>> Agreed. But then some here would say "But your headlight dimmer switch
>> isn't made from carbon fiber! And it doesn't upload data about how
>> many times you've used your high beams! And it doesn't work with a
>> phone app!"
>
> In the case of a dimmer switch, it's not integrated into a fragile and
> complicated stalk on the steering column. I don't understand what was
> wrong with the dimmer switch on the floor.

With an even minimal windscreen leak, they corrode. This one
only went 58 years but since I recently re set the glass the
replacement could go longer.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 07:57:19 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/20/2023 9:06 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:05:15 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> https://soshanger.ca/en/home/3926-thread-star-rear-12-mmaxle-thread-identifier.html
>>
>> Is this how cancer works? 1,199 rear derailleur hanger products:
>> <https://soshanger.ca/en/14-rear-derailleur-hangers>
>> The high mutation rate cancer is upon us.

>There are no senior engineers in management. Every kid with
>a drawing program creates a new one just because "We didn't
>make that one".

Not a drawing program. More likely a CAD (computah aided design)
program.

Modern technology has greatly improved our ability to make design
changes on the fly. In the not so distant past, making a design
change on a component required a major documentation effort. Today,
all it takes is making a few changes to the computerized drawings.
That not only changes the part but also makes changes to associated
documentation for the entire sub-assembly (if all the drawings and
documentation were linked). With inventory reduction and "just in
time" manufacturing, there's no incentive to recycle an old component
into the next generation of products. Since design cycles are now
shorter than production cycles, it's possible to have several
generations of product designs in the pipeline at the same time. If
something needs "improving" on the current design, just throw it away
and give the customer the latest and greatest when it hits the end of
the production queue.

Incidentally, the latest fad is to eliminate the traditional prototype
stage and simply have the CAD output sent to the CNC (computerized
numerical control) machines and out comes that part or product. First
to market usually wins and "customer tested" products, such as Windows
10 and 11, are becoming the norm. Speed kills but is also profitable.

The problem with derailleur hangers is that they don't cost enough to
justify vanity manufacturing. Someone could easily reverse engineer
all the available hangers. Add a vertical mill and a water jet cutter
and you have any of 1,199 incompatible hangers on demand. The problem
is that it would cost too much. Also, nobody (except Tom) has so many
different bicycles that they would need a huge number of replacement
hangers. So, there's no mass market. Nice idea, but it's not the way
to get rich.

>Last night I bought a headlight dimmer switch. Fits all GM
>product (Corvair, Cadillac, Buick, GM pickups etc) 1962
>through 1980. Our industry could learn something from that,
>as could the modern auto business.

Nice. Today, you would have to deal with six different variations of
each GM product PER YEAR before you find the correct version of the
dimmer switch. 1962 through 1980 (19 models) times 6 variations per
year and that would be 114 SKU numbers.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 11/21/2023 2:18 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 07:57:19 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 11/20/2023 9:06 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:05:15 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://soshanger.ca/en/home/3926-thread-star-rear-12-mmaxle-thread-identifier.html
>>>
>>> Is this how cancer works? 1,199 rear derailleur hanger products:
>>> <https://soshanger.ca/en/14-rear-derailleur-hangers>
>>> The high mutation rate cancer is upon us.
>
>> There are no senior engineers in management. Every kid with
>> a drawing program creates a new one just because "We didn't
>> make that one".
>
> Not a drawing program. More likely a CAD (computah aided design)
> program.
>
> Modern technology has greatly improved our ability to make design
> changes on the fly. In the not so distant past, making a design
> change on a component required a major documentation effort. Today,
> all it takes is making a few changes to the computerized drawings.
> That not only changes the part but also makes changes to associated
> documentation for the entire sub-assembly (if all the drawings and
> documentation were linked). With inventory reduction and "just in
> time" manufacturing, there's no incentive to recycle an old component
> into the next generation of products. Since design cycles are now
> shorter than production cycles, it's possible to have several
> generations of product designs in the pipeline at the same time. If
> something needs "improving" on the current design, just throw it away
> and give the customer the latest and greatest when it hits the end of
> the production queue.
>
> Incidentally, the latest fad is to eliminate the traditional prototype
> stage and simply have the CAD output sent to the CNC (computerized
> numerical control) machines and out comes that part or product. First
> to market usually wins and "customer tested" products, such as Windows
> 10 and 11, are becoming the norm. Speed kills but is also profitable.
>
> The problem with derailleur hangers is that they don't cost enough to
> justify vanity manufacturing. Someone could easily reverse engineer
> all the available hangers. Add a vertical mill and a water jet cutter
> and you have any of 1,199 incompatible hangers on demand. The problem
> is that it would cost too much. Also, nobody (except Tom) has so many
> different bicycles that they would need a huge number of replacement
> hangers. So, there's no mass market. Nice idea, but it's not the way
> to get rich.
>
>> Last night I bought a headlight dimmer switch. Fits all GM
>> product (Corvair, Cadillac, Buick, GM pickups etc) 1962
>> through 1980. Our industry could learn something from that,
>> as could the modern auto business.
>
> Nice. Today, you would have to deal with six different variations of
> each GM product PER YEAR before you find the correct version of the
> dimmer switch. 1962 through 1980 (19 models) times 6 variations per
> year and that would be 114 SKU numbers.
>
>

I occasionally work on modern cars. Nothing fits anything
else generally and a surprising proportion involve a couple
hours of removing unrelated parts before starting the actual
job and then of course more time to reinstall them.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 3:18:20 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 07:57:19 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >There are no senior engineers in management. Every kid with
> >a drawing program creates a new one just because "We didn't
> >make that one".
> Not a drawing program. More likely a CAD (computah aided design)
> program.
>
> Modern technology has greatly improved our ability to make design
> changes on the fly. In the not so distant past, making a design
> change on a component required a major documentation effort. Today,
> all it takes is making a few changes to the computerized drawings.
> That not only changes the part but also makes changes to associated
> documentation for the entire sub-assembly (if all the drawings and
> documentation were linked). With inventory reduction and "just in
> time" manufacturing, there's no incentive to recycle an old component
> into the next generation of products. Since design cycles are now
> shorter than production cycles, it's possible to have several
> generations of product designs in the pipeline at the same time. If
> something needs "improving" on the current design, just throw it away
> and give the customer the latest and greatest when it hits the end of
> the production queue.

I think we've got at least three potential routes to various "singularities" or tipping
points. Most people discussing these things focus on the potential of AI suddenly surging
beyond human capabilities. Or maybe the Kessler Syndrome, where our
low earth orbit messiness shuts down all uses of orbital space - like, say, GPS.

The one coming from Jeff's notion would be when manufacturing gets consumed
by ever more frequent incompatibilities - where nothing eventually fits anything
else just because it's so easy to "innovate" and chase diminishing returns.

Luckily, we retrogrouches will continue riding, shifting manually on ancient
hardware, navigating using paper instead of satellites, experiencing the real world
instead of the virtual ones.

- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 14:51:51 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/21/2023 2:18 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 07:57:19 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/20/2023 9:06 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:05:15 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://soshanger.ca/en/home/3926-thread-star-rear-12-mmaxle-thread-identifier.html
>>>>
>>>> Is this how cancer works? 1,199 rear derailleur hanger products:
>>>> <https://soshanger.ca/en/14-rear-derailleur-hangers>
>>>> The high mutation rate cancer is upon us.
>>
>>> There are no senior engineers in management. Every kid with
>>> a drawing program creates a new one just because "We didn't
>>> make that one".
>>
>> Not a drawing program. More likely a CAD (computah aided design)
>> program.
>>
>> Modern technology has greatly improved our ability to make design
>> changes on the fly. In the not so distant past, making a design
>> change on a component required a major documentation effort. Today,
>> all it takes is making a few changes to the computerized drawings.
>> That not only changes the part but also makes changes to associated
>> documentation for the entire sub-assembly (if all the drawings and
>> documentation were linked). With inventory reduction and "just in
>> time" manufacturing, there's no incentive to recycle an old component
>> into the next generation of products. Since design cycles are now
>> shorter than production cycles, it's possible to have several
>> generations of product designs in the pipeline at the same time. If
>> something needs "improving" on the current design, just throw it away
>> and give the customer the latest and greatest when it hits the end of
>> the production queue.
>>
>> Incidentally, the latest fad is to eliminate the traditional prototype
>> stage and simply have the CAD output sent to the CNC (computerized
>> numerical control) machines and out comes that part or product. First
>> to market usually wins and "customer tested" products, such as Windows
>> 10 and 11, are becoming the norm. Speed kills but is also profitable.
>>
>> The problem with derailleur hangers is that they don't cost enough to
>> justify vanity manufacturing. Someone could easily reverse engineer
>> all the available hangers. Add a vertical mill and a water jet cutter
>> and you have any of 1,199 incompatible hangers on demand. The problem
>> is that it would cost too much. Also, nobody (except Tom) has so many
>> different bicycles that they would need a huge number of replacement
>> hangers. So, there's no mass market. Nice idea, but it's not the way
>> to get rich.
>>
>>> Last night I bought a headlight dimmer switch. Fits all GM
>>> product (Corvair, Cadillac, Buick, GM pickups etc) 1962
>>> through 1980. Our industry could learn something from that,
>>> as could the modern auto business.
>>
>> Nice. Today, you would have to deal with six different variations of
>> each GM product PER YEAR before you find the correct version of the
>> dimmer switch. 1962 through 1980 (19 models) times 6 variations per
>> year and that would be 114 SKU numbers.
>>
>>
>
>I occasionally work on modern cars. Nothing fits anything
>else generally and a surprising proportion involve a couple
>hours of removing unrelated parts before starting the actual
>job and then of course more time to reinstall them.

My father had converted a Model A to a tractor - add a truck rear axle
and transmission to give it rear duals and a super low gear ratio -
and I got to work on it. Just raise one side or the other of the
"hood" and there was everything right there in front of you (:-)

But the Model A had many other advantages, it had "bumpers" so when
you hit a bicyclist, or a cow, it didn't put a dent in the fenders and
it even had a crank so you could start the engine if the battery was
low. Try that with one of these modern mobiles. :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 12:18:05 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 07:57:19 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>On 11/20/2023 9:06 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:05:15 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://soshanger.ca/en/home/3926-thread-star-rear-12-mmaxle-thread-identifier.html
>>>
>>> Is this how cancer works? 1,199 rear derailleur hanger products:
>>> <https://soshanger.ca/en/14-rear-derailleur-hangers>
>>> The high mutation rate cancer is upon us.
>
>>There are no senior engineers in management. Every kid with
>>a drawing program creates a new one just because "We didn't
>>make that one".
>
>Not a drawing program. More likely a CAD (computah aided design)
>program.
>
>Modern technology has greatly improved our ability to make design
>changes on the fly. In the not so distant past, making a design
>change on a component required a major documentation effort. Today,
>all it takes is making a few changes to the computerized drawings.
>That not only changes the part but also makes changes to associated
>documentation for the entire sub-assembly (if all the drawings and
>documentation were linked). With inventory reduction and "just in
>time" manufacturing, there's no incentive to recycle an old component
>into the next generation of products. Since design cycles are now
>shorter than production cycles, it's possible to have several
>generations of product designs in the pipeline at the same time. If
>something needs "improving" on the current design, just throw it away
>and give the customer the latest and greatest when it hits the end of
>the production queue.
>
>Incidentally, the latest fad is to eliminate the traditional prototype
>stage and simply have the CAD output sent to the CNC (computerized
>numerical control) machines and out comes that part or product. First
>to market usually wins and "customer tested" products, such as Windows
>10 and 11, are becoming the norm. Speed kills but is also profitable.
>
>The problem with derailleur hangers is that they don't cost enough to
>justify vanity manufacturing. Someone could easily reverse engineer
>all the available hangers. Add a vertical mill and a water jet cutter
>and you have any of 1,199 incompatible hangers on demand. The problem
>is that it would cost too much. Also, nobody (except Tom) has so many
>different bicycles that they would need a huge number of replacement
>hangers. So, there's no mass market. Nice idea, but it's not the way
>to get rich.
>
>>Last night I bought a headlight dimmer switch. Fits all GM
>>product (Corvair, Cadillac, Buick, GM pickups etc) 1962
>>through 1980. Our industry could learn something from that,
>>as could the modern auto business.
>
>Nice. Today, you would have to deal with six different variations of
>each GM product PER YEAR before you find the correct version of the
>dimmer switch. 1962 through 1980 (19 models) times 6 variations per
>year and that would be 114 SKU numbers.

Well, back in the old days you just went down to the "car shop" place.
Went into the parts department and told them what you wanted. The
parts guy would scurry around and finally hand you the part and Lo! It
fitted.

As for Tommy, I also found that going to the Bike shop and telling
them that I wanted "the thingamajig for a 9 speed Shimano Deore
shifting thing" worked equally well.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:

> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 12:18:05 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 07:57:19 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>>On 11/20/2023 9:06 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:05:15 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://soshanger.ca/en/home/3926-thread-star-rear-12-mmaxle-thread-identifier.html
>>>>
>>>> Is this how cancer works? 1,199 rear derailleur hanger products:
>>>> <https://soshanger.ca/en/14-rear-derailleur-hangers>
>>>> The high mutation rate cancer is upon us.
>>
>>>There are no senior engineers in management. Every kid with
>>>a drawing program creates a new one just because "We didn't
>>>make that one".
>>
>>Not a drawing program. More likely a CAD (computah aided design)
>>program.
>>
>>Modern technology has greatly improved our ability to make design
>>changes on the fly. In the not so distant past, making a design
>>change on a component required a major documentation effort. Today,
>>all it takes is making a few changes to the computerized drawings.
>>That not only changes the part but also makes changes to associated
>>documentation for the entire sub-assembly (if all the drawings and
>>documentation were linked). With inventory reduction and "just in
>>time" manufacturing, there's no incentive to recycle an old component
>>into the next generation of products. Since design cycles are now
>>shorter than production cycles, it's possible to have several
>>generations of product designs in the pipeline at the same time. If
>>something needs "improving" on the current design, just throw it away
>>and give the customer the latest and greatest when it hits the end of
>>the production queue.
>>
>>Incidentally, the latest fad is to eliminate the traditional prototype
>>stage and simply have the CAD output sent to the CNC (computerized
>>numerical control) machines and out comes that part or product. First
>>to market usually wins and "customer tested" products, such as Windows
>>10 and 11, are becoming the norm. Speed kills but is also profitable.
>>
>>The problem with derailleur hangers is that they don't cost enough to
>>justify vanity manufacturing. Someone could easily reverse engineer
>>all the available hangers. Add a vertical mill and a water jet cutter
>>and you have any of 1,199 incompatible hangers on demand. The problem
>>is that it would cost too much. Also, nobody (except Tom) has so many
>>different bicycles that they would need a huge number of replacement
>>hangers. So, there's no mass market. Nice idea, but it's not the way
>>to get rich.
>>
>>>Last night I bought a headlight dimmer switch. Fits all GM
>>>product (Corvair, Cadillac, Buick, GM pickups etc) 1962
>>>through 1980. Our industry could learn something from that,
>>>as could the modern auto business.
>>
>>Nice. Today, you would have to deal with six different variations of
>>each GM product PER YEAR before you find the correct version of the
>>dimmer switch. 1962 through 1980 (19 models) times 6 variations per
>>year and that would be 114 SKU numbers.
>
> Well, back in the old days you just went down to the "car shop" place.
> Went into the parts department and told them what you wanted. The
> parts guy would scurry around and finally hand you the part and Lo! It
> fitted.

I suppose when you were a lad they looked it up on paper. What I
remember is microfiche, and microfilm. You can probably still enjoy
both at a local library.

> As for Tommy, I also found that going to the Bike shop and telling
> them that I wanted "the thingamajig for a 9 speed Shimano Deore
> shifting thing" worked equally well.

--

On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 22:38:15 -0500, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

>John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 12:18:05 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 07:57:19 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 11/20/2023 9:06 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:05:15 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://soshanger.ca/en/home/3926-thread-star-rear-12-mmaxle-thread-identifier.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this how cancer works? 1,199 rear derailleur hanger products:
>>>>> <https://soshanger.ca/en/14-rear-derailleur-hangers>
>>>>> The high mutation rate cancer is upon us.
>>>
>>>>There are no senior engineers in management. Every kid with
>>>>a drawing program creates a new one just because "We didn't
>>>>make that one".
>>>
>>>Not a drawing program. More likely a CAD (computah aided design)
>>>program.
>>>
>>>Modern technology has greatly improved our ability to make design
>>>changes on the fly. In the not so distant past, making a design
>>>change on a component required a major documentation effort. Today,
>>>all it takes is making a few changes to the computerized drawings.
>>>That not only changes the part but also makes changes to associated
>>>documentation for the entire sub-assembly (if all the drawings and
>>>documentation were linked). With inventory reduction and "just in
>>>time" manufacturing, there's no incentive to recycle an old component
>>>into the next generation of products. Since design cycles are now
>>>shorter than production cycles, it's possible to have several
>>>generations of product designs in the pipeline at the same time. If
>>>something needs "improving" on the current design, just throw it away
>>>and give the customer the latest and greatest when it hits the end of
>>>the production queue.
>>>
>>>Incidentally, the latest fad is to eliminate the traditional prototype
>>>stage and simply have the CAD output sent to the CNC (computerized
>>>numerical control) machines and out comes that part or product. First
>>>to market usually wins and "customer tested" products, such as Windows
>>>10 and 11, are becoming the norm. Speed kills but is also profitable.
>>>
>>>The problem with derailleur hangers is that they don't cost enough to
>>>justify vanity manufacturing. Someone could easily reverse engineer
>>>all the available hangers. Add a vertical mill and a water jet cutter
>>>and you have any of 1,199 incompatible hangers on demand. The problem
>>>is that it would cost too much. Also, nobody (except Tom) has so many
>>>different bicycles that they would need a huge number of replacement
>>>hangers. So, there's no mass market. Nice idea, but it's not the way
>>>to get rich.
>>>
>>>>Last night I bought a headlight dimmer switch. Fits all GM
>>>>product (Corvair, Cadillac, Buick, GM pickups etc) 1962
>>>>through 1980. Our industry could learn something from that,
>>>>as could the modern auto business.
>>>
>>>Nice. Today, you would have to deal with six different variations of
>>>each GM product PER YEAR before you find the correct version of the
>>>dimmer switch. 1962 through 1980 (19 models) times 6 variations per
>>>year and that would be 114 SKU numbers.
>>
>> Well, back in the old days you just went down to the "car shop" place.
>> Went into the parts department and told them what you wanted. The
>> parts guy would scurry around and finally hand you the part and Lo! It
>> fitted.
>
>I suppose when you were a lad they looked it up on paper. What I
>remember is microfiche, and microfilm. You can probably still enjoy
>both at a local library.

Well, of course. It was called a "parts catalog" and you could open it
up, right there on the parts department counter, and point you finger
- "Right there, that's what I want!" You didn't even need to know the
name of the thing

Vastly superior to microfilm or fiche that you have to hunt around to
find the "reader" only to have the nice lady behind the counter tell
you, "Oh Sir! Its broken, but don't worry, we've called them and
they've said there'd be someone come by next week to fix it".

--
Cheers,

John B.

> I suppose when you were a lad they looked it up on paper. What I
> remember is microfiche, and microfilm. You can probably still enjoy
> both at a local library.

That's when he was in the Air Force. When he was a lad it was charcoal and a shovel

On Monday, November 27, 2023 at 1:24:02 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
> > I suppose when you were a lad they looked it up on paper. What I
> > remember is microfiche, and microfilm. You can probably still enjoy
> > both at a local library.
> That's when he was in the Air Force. When he was a lad it was charcoal and a shovel

Senility is not that common but Slocomb has shown many signs of it. He may not be as far gone as Biden yet but he is clearly on his way.

Doug Landau <doug.landau@gmail.com> writes:

>> I suppose when you were a lad they looked it up on paper. What I
>> remember is microfiche, and microfilm. You can probably still enjoy
>> both at a local library.
>
> That's when he was in the Air Force. When he was a lad it was
> charcoal and a shovel
>

If it rhymes you can just remember it, like Homer the parts guy.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 07:57:19 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/20/2023 9:06 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:05:15 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> https://soshanger.ca/en/home/3926-thread-star-rear-12-mmaxle-thread-identifier.html
>>
>> Is this how cancer works? 1,199 rear derailleur hanger products:
>> <https://soshanger.ca/en/14-rear-derailleur-hangers>
>> The high mutation rate cancer is upon us.
>>
>
>There are no senior engineers in management. Every kid with
>a drawing program creates a new one just because "We didn't
>make that one".
>
>Last night I bought a headlight dimmer switch. Fits all GM
>product (Corvair, Cadillac, Buick, GM pickups etc) 1962
>through 1980. Our industry could learn something from that,
>as could the modern auto business.

Auto Industry is notorious for 'developing' parts that can't be
used anywhere else, through their 'standardization'.

RL