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tech / sci.electronics.design / Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

SubjectAuthor
* some BFP640 SiGe measurementsJohn Larkin
+- Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsJohn Larkin
+* Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsDimiter_Popoff
|`* Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsJohn Larkin
| +* Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsGerhard Hoffmann
| |`- Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsjlarkin
| `- Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsDimiter_Popoff
+- Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsPhil Hobbs
`* Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsJan Panteltje
 `* Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsjlarkin
  +* Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsJan Panteltje
  |`* Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsjlarkin
  | +- Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsJan Panteltje
  | `* Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsClifford Heath
  |  `* Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsjlarkin
  |   `* Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsClifford Heath
  |    `* Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsJohn Larkin
  |     +- Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsJan Panteltje
  |     `* Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsClifford Heath
  |      `* Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsjlarkin
  |       `* Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsMike Monett
  |        `* Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsjlarkin
  |         `- Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsMike Monett
  `- Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurementsPhil Hobbs

1
some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<dc8o6hpc2pges9sqe5bu71at2g531pg17o@4ax.com>

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From: jlar...@highland_atwork_technology.com (John Larkin)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:40:05 -0700
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 by: John Larkin - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:40 UTC

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0

Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the
tiny junction size.

It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode.

I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter.

An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<o19o6hdo8s8n36gaer5a0guh6u57vgvhth@4ax.com>

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From: jlar...@highland_atwork_technology.com (John Larkin)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:46:32 -0700
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 by: John Larkin - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:46 UTC

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:40:05 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

>
>https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0
>
>Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the
>tiny junction size.
>

The 1 ma jd's are close to those of a BFT25.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<t4hbki$c09$1@dont-email.me>

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From: dp...@tgi-sci.com (Dimiter_Popoff)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 21:43:30 +0300
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 by: Dimiter_Popoff - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 18:43 UTC

On 4/29/2022 20:40, John Larkin wrote:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0
>
> Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the
> tiny junction size.
>
> It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode.
>
> I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter.
>
> An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine.
>
>

Hah! Thanks for mentioning the diode thing, I may eventually build
a pulse generator using it, needed something like that for a switch.
(Don't hold your breath, it's been decades so far :).

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<l2eo6hdr2e7d00nk2ufg6kahbu88dp2bvf@4ax.com>

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From: jlar...@highland_atwork_technology.com (John Larkin)
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Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
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 by: John Larkin - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 19:20 UTC

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 21:43:30 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
wrote:

>On 4/29/2022 20:40, John Larkin wrote:
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0
>>
>> Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the
>> tiny junction size.
>>
>> It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode.
>>
>> I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter.
>>
>> An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine.
>>
>>
>
>Hah! Thanks for mentioning the diode thing, I may eventually build
>a pulse generator using it, needed something like that for a switch.
>(Don't hold your breath, it's been decades so far :).

I want to do a benchtop pulse generator, but it would be a lot of
work. It would have to be fast (at least 1 GHz rate, 100 ps edges, 5
volts at least) to be profitable; the slower stuff is cheap.

A fast fpga SERDES could generate many channels, patterns even, but
the outputs would be clock quantized.

I have some data on the MiniCircuits SAV series phemts, as switches,
if that's interesting. S-params are not useful in switching
applications.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<t4i1ut$1jtm9$1@solani.org>

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From: dk4...@arcor.de (Gerhard Hoffmann)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 03:04:26 +0200
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 by: Gerhard Hoffmann - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 01:04 UTC

Am 29.04.22 um 21:20 schrieb John Larkin:
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 21:43:30 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/29/2022 20:40, John Larkin wrote:
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0
>>>
>>> Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the
>>> tiny junction size.
>>>
>>> It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode.
>>>
>>> I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter.
>>>
>>> An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine.
>>>

A customer of mine used an ultrasonics microscope, long time ago.

The Infineon spice model has the effect of bond wires etc,
separated from the bare chip.

Oh, and 1/f also. What unusual luxury!

And under which conditions the spice model delivers correct s-parameters!

Someone must have done his homework in Munich.

>> Hah! Thanks for mentioning the diode thing, I may eventually build
>> a pulse generator using it, needed something like that for a switch.
>> (Don't hold your breath, it's been decades so far :).
>
> I want to do a benchtop pulse generator, but it would be a lot of
> work. It would have to be fast (at least 1 GHz rate, 100 ps edges, 5
> volts at least) to be profitable; the slower stuff is cheap.
>
> A fast fpga SERDES could generate many channels, patterns even, but
> the outputs would be clock quantized.
>
> I have some data on the MiniCircuits SAV series phemts, as switches,
> if that's interesting. S-params are not useful in switching
> applications.

Of course, they are. Some network analyzers can do the FFT
voodoo per push botton to convert between time & frequency
domain.

Gerhard

***************************************************************
* Infineon Technologies AG GUMMEL-POON Transistor MODEL IN SPICE 2G6
SYNTAX
* BFP640 Model in SOT343 Incuding 1/f Noise Model and Temperature
Model June 2002
***************************************************************
* For DC-simulations, the parameter set is valid in the temperature
range from T = -25 °C upto T = 125 °C.
* The AC-behaviour is correctly simulated only at T = 25 °C. In order
to simulate S-Parameters at T = -25 °C resp.
* T = 125 °C, the parameter ITF of the main transistor must be
modified by the following equation:
* * ITF(T) = ITF(To) * ( 1 - 6.5e-3 * (T-To) + 1.0e-5 * (T-To)^2 )
* To = 25 °C
* * This means:
* -------------------------------
* ITF(-25 °C) = 1.35 * ITF(25 °C)
* ITF(125 °C) = 0.45 * ITF(25 °C)
* * If in Parameter Set available set:
* TITF1 = -6.5e-3
* TITF2 = 1.0e-5
**************************************************************
* BFP640
* *.OPTION TNOM = 25, GMIN = 1.0E-12
* * BFP640 C B E
..SUBCKT BFP640 1 2 3
X1 22 11 33 2 1 3 SOT343_BFP640
X2 11 22 33 CHIP_BFP640
..ENDS BFP640
**************************************************************
* Chip parasitics BFP640
* * CHIP_BFP640 C B E
..SUBCKT CHIP_BFP640 1 2 3
Q1 10 20 30 4 M_BFP640
CBEC 20 30 9.840E-14
CBCC 20 10 5.593E-14
LBC 2 20 1.200E-10
LCC 1 10 1.200E-10
LEC 3 30 2.000E-11
CES 3 33 1.800E-13
CBS 2 22 7.900E-14
CCS 1 11 7.500E-14
RBS 4 22 1.200E+03
RCS 4 11 1.200E+03
RES 4 33 3.000E+02
..ENDS CHIP_BFP640
**************************************************************
* Package Model SOT343 for BFP640
* * SOT343_BFP640 Bi Ci Ei Bo Co Eo
..SUBCKT SOT343_BFP640 1 2 3 10 20 30
LBB 1 10 0.6962E-9
LCB 2 20 0.6824E-9
LEB 3 30 0.2306E-9
CCEO 20 30 131.2E-15
CBEO 30 10 102.5E-15
CCEI 2 3 112.6E-15
CBEI 3 1 180.4E-15
..ENDS SOT343_BFP640
**************************************************************
* BJT Model SOT343 for BFP640
* ..MODEL M_BFP640 NPN(
+ IS = 2.200E-16
+ NF = 1.025E+00
+ BF = 4.500E+02
+ NE = 2.000E+00
+ ISE = 2.100E-14
+ NR = 1.000E+00
+ BR = 5.500E+01
+ NC = 1.800E+00
+ ISC = 4.000E-13
+ VAF = 1.000E+03
+ VAR = 2.000E+00
+ IKF = 1.500E-01
+ IKR = 3.800E-03
+ RB = 3.129E+00
+ RBM = 2.707E+00
+ IRB = 1.522E-03
+ RE = 6.000E-01
+ RC = 3.061E+00
+ XTB =-1.420E+00
+ EG = 1.078E+00
+ XTI = 3.000E+00
+ TF = 1.800E-12
+ VTF = 1.500E+00
+ XTF = 1.000E+01
+ ITF = 4.000E-01
+ CJE = 2.276E-13
+ VJE = 8.000E-01
+ MJE = 3.000E-01
+ CJC = 6.743E-14
+ VJC = 6.000E-01
+ MJC = 5.000E-01
+ XCJC = 1.000E+00
+ CJS = 9.335E-14
+ VJS = 6.000E-01
+ MJS = 2.700E-01
+ FC = 8.000E-01
+ TR = 2.000E-10
+ PTF = 0.000E+00
+ AF = 2.000E+00
+ KF = 7.291E-11
+ TNOM = 25)

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<97b9c47f-2366-a591-dca1-37a3186b9cad@electrooptical.net>

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From: pcdhSpam...@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 21:07:51 -0400
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 by: Phil Hobbs - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 01:07 UTC

John Larkin wrote:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0
>
> Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the
> tiny junction size.
>
> It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode.
>
> I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter.
>
> An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine.

The Early voltage is right around 250V, and the beta is about 250 as
well. It's pretty flat with collector current--it doesn't tank at low
I_C the way old time RF transistors often did.

Too-slow measurements often show the collector curves sloping the wrong
way due to thermal effects, so that the Early voltage might even seem to
have the wrong sign. If you do the measurement fast enough, though, it
comes in at V_A ~ 250V. That's incredible for a 40+ GHz transistor that
costs 20 cents in reels.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<t4ilck$4ub$1@dont-email.me>

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From: pNaonStp...@yahoo.com (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 06:36 UTC

On a sunny day (Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:40:05 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
<dc8o6hpc2pges9sqe5bu71at2g531pg17o@4ax.com>:

>
>https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0
>
>Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the
>tiny junction size.
>
>It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode.
>
>I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter.
>
>An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine.

Does not seem so much different from other RF NPN in satellite LNBs?
Millions of those around.
?

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<qvhq6htpluaun4ka3v0u07p9tmanusip7p@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:33:46 -0700
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 14:33 UTC

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 06:36:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:40:05 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
><dc8o6hpc2pges9sqe5bu71at2g531pg17o@4ax.com>:
>
>>
>>https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0
>>
>>Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the
>>tiny junction size.
>>
>>It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode.
>>
>>I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter.
>>
>>An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine.
>
>Does not seem so much different from other RF NPN in satellite LNBs?
>Millions of those around.
>?

The SiGe's are just 2x or 3x faster than regular rf bipolars.

I just figured that I should get some and play with them. Maybe
explore saturation and switching, and build an oscillator maybe. Can't
design with tubes forever.

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<t4jj1v$1s3$1@dont-email.me>

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From: pNaonStp...@yahoo.com (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 15:02:22 GMT
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 15:02 UTC

On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:33:46 -0700) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<qvhq6htpluaun4ka3v0u07p9tmanusip7p@4ax.com>:

>On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 06:36:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:40:05 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
>><dc8o6hpc2pges9sqe5bu71at2g531pg17o@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>
>>>https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0
>>>
>>>Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the
>>>tiny junction size.
>>>
>>>It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode.
>>>
>>>I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter.
>>>
>>>An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine.
>>
>>Does not seem so much different from other RF NPN in satellite LNBs?
>>Millions of those around.
>>?
>
>The SiGe's are just 2x or 3x faster than regular rf bipolars.
>
>I just figured that I should get some and play with them. Maybe
>explore saturation and switching, and build an oscillator maybe. Can't
>design with tubes forever.

I was looking at the noise level, very important for LNBs..
Indeed would be fun to to test a few,
been working in the garden for hours, did put a peach seed in the ground in a sunny place,
wonder if it will grow into a tree.

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<tglq6h13k2cmildj7d58egf57tqfotprhc@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 15:51 UTC

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 15:02:22 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:33:46 -0700) it happened
>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
><qvhq6htpluaun4ka3v0u07p9tmanusip7p@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 06:36:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:40:05 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
>>><dc8o6hpc2pges9sqe5bu71at2g531pg17o@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0
>>>>
>>>>Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the
>>>>tiny junction size.
>>>>
>>>>It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode.
>>>>
>>>>I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter.
>>>>
>>>>An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine.
>>>
>>>Does not seem so much different from other RF NPN in satellite LNBs?
>>>Millions of those around.
>>>?
>>
>>The SiGe's are just 2x or 3x faster than regular rf bipolars.
>>
>>I just figured that I should get some and play with them. Maybe
>>explore saturation and switching, and build an oscillator maybe. Can't
>>design with tubes forever.
>
>I was looking at the noise level, very important for LNBs..
>Indeed would be fun to to test a few,
>been working in the garden for hours, did put a peach seed in the ground in a sunny place,
>wonder if it will grow into a tree.

We have a wonderful Meyer lemon tree in our tiny back yard. Neignbors
drop in when they need a lemon or two, and a couple are trying to
clone it from seeds or cuttings.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kgmvedhuhsn76x3/Mo_and_lemons.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1f5ux77p6o12w7k/Lemon-pumpkin.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kwzfbkv1ua41p9i/Lemons_Post-Rat.JPG?raw=1

Our side of our street slopes down to the south, so we get sun... when
it's not foggy like today. The people across the street have dark dank
mouldy back yards where things don't grow well.

These people across the street have a spiral staircase leading to
their small farm on top the cliff, where they have sun. He brews beer
too.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7ji04b7mfj0pt5/Arbor_Small_Farm.jpg?raw=1

It took a big crew and a giant crane to lift the steel staircase over
the house into the back yard. The payback in veggies is probably 300
years or so.

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<t4jpbf$lv5$1@dont-email.me>

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From: pNaonStp...@yahoo.com (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 16:49:50 GMT
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 16:49 UTC

On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Apr 2022 08:51:18 -0700) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<tglq6h13k2cmildj7d58egf57tqfotprhc@4ax.com>:

>On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 15:02:22 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:33:46 -0700) it happened
>>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>><qvhq6htpluaun4ka3v0u07p9tmanusip7p@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 06:36:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:40:05 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
>>>><dc8o6hpc2pges9sqe5bu71at2g531pg17o@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0
>>>>>
>>>>>Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the
>>>>>tiny junction size.
>>>>>
>>>>>It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode.
>>>>>
>>>>>I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter.
>>>>>
>>>>>An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine.
>>>>
>>>>Does not seem so much different from other RF NPN in satellite LNBs?
>>>>Millions of those around.
>>>>?
>>>
>>>The SiGe's are just 2x or 3x faster than regular rf bipolars.
>>>
>>>I just figured that I should get some and play with them. Maybe
>>>explore saturation and switching, and build an oscillator maybe. Can't
>>>design with tubes forever.
>>
>>I was looking at the noise level, very important for LNBs..
>>Indeed would be fun to to test a few,
>>been working in the garden for hours, did put a peach seed in the ground in a sunny place,
>>wonder if it will grow into a tree.
>
>We have a wonderful Meyer lemon tree in our tiny back yard. Neignbors
>drop in when they need a lemon or two, and a couple are trying to
>clone it from seeds or cuttings.
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/s/kgmvedhuhsn76x3/Mo_and_lemons.jpg?raw=1

Nice!

>https://www.dropbox.com/s/1f5ux77p6o12w7k/Lemon-pumpkin.jpg?raw=1
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/s/kwzfbkv1ua41p9i/Lemons_Post-Rat.JPG?raw=1
>
>Our side of our street slopes down to the south, so we get sun... when
>it's not foggy like today. The people across the street have dark dank
>mouldy back yards where things don't grow well.

The front has always sun here, but parts of the back garden which is much larger, on the north side, only have sun in the afternoon.
Gets better each month, but weather is a bit strange lately
can go down to 1 degree C is predicted this week, north wind and dry,
usually it if from the west (sea) and rains a lot.
http://panteltje.com/pub/house_top_vie

>These people across the street have a spiral staircase leading to
>their small farm on top the cliff, where they have sun. He brews beer
>too.
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7ji04b7mfj0pt5/Arbor_Small_Farm.jpg?raw=1

>It took a big crew and a giant crane to lift the steel staircase over
>the house into the back yard. The payback in veggies is probably 300
>years or so.

Yea, I have a small road around the back.
Grapes grow in the back of the garden.
http://panteltje.com/pub/garden_IXIMG_0763.JPG
lots of plants on the right side.

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<t4jre2$7lr$1@dont-email.me>

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From: dp...@tgi-sci.com (Dimiter_Popoff)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 20:25:21 +0300
Organization: TGI
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 by: Dimiter_Popoff - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:25 UTC

On 4/29/2022 22:20, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 21:43:30 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/29/2022 20:40, John Larkin wrote:
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0
>>>
>>> Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the
>>> tiny junction size.
>>>
>>> It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode.
>>>
>>> I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter.
>>>
>>> An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Hah! Thanks for mentioning the diode thing, I may eventually build
>> a pulse generator using it, needed something like that for a switch.
>> (Don't hold your breath, it's been decades so far :).
>
> I want to do a benchtop pulse generator, but it would be a lot of
> work. It would have to be fast (at least 1 GHz rate, 100 ps edges, 5
> volts at least) to be profitable; the slower stuff is cheap.
>
> A fast fpga SERDES could generate many channels, patterns even, but
> the outputs would be clock quantized.
>
> I have some data on the MiniCircuits SAV series phemts, as switches,
> if that's interesting. S-params are not useful in switching
> applications.
>

My plan is not to build something we can sell, it is just for me to use.
Could have used it some 25 years ago at least :-). The mercury wetted
relay based pulser I put together back in 1994 or so did it, still does
it actually (in a housing I would be ashamed to show...).
But still, I might put in a few days and build one. The idea is to do
two current sources (fast and precision both of them, FET opamp
with p-fet (e.g. sst176)) charging a capacitor and diode switches to
turn the charging on/off (say 100ns charge to 1V then leave it to
discharge at some 50 or 100 us RC).

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<qibr6hdv9f8hkv1mif6lgsasbvd57q2985@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:48 UTC

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 03:04:26 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
wrote:

>Am 29.04.22 um 21:20 schrieb John Larkin:
>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 21:43:30 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/29/2022 20:40, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0
>>>>
>>>> Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the
>>>> tiny junction size.
>>>>
>>>> It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode.
>>>>
>>>> I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter.
>>>>
>>>> An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine.
>>>>
>
>A customer of mine used an ultrasonics microscope, long time ago.
>
>The Infineon spice model has the effect of bond wires etc,
>separated from the bare chip.
>
>Oh, and 1/f also. What unusual luxury!
>
>And under which conditions the spice model delivers correct s-parameters!
>
>Someone must have done his homework in Munich.
>
>
>>> Hah! Thanks for mentioning the diode thing, I may eventually build
>>> a pulse generator using it, needed something like that for a switch.
>>> (Don't hold your breath, it's been decades so far :).
>>
>> I want to do a benchtop pulse generator, but it would be a lot of
>> work. It would have to be fast (at least 1 GHz rate, 100 ps edges, 5
>> volts at least) to be profitable; the slower stuff is cheap.
>>
>> A fast fpga SERDES could generate many channels, patterns even, but
>> the outputs would be clock quantized.
>>
>> I have some data on the MiniCircuits SAV series phemts, as switches,
>> if that's interesting. S-params are not useful in switching
>> applications.
>
>Of course, they are. Some network analyzers can do the FFT
>voodoo per push botton to convert between time & frequency
>domain.

But that's all small-signal linear. No fun at all.

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

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Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
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From: no.s...@please.net (Clifford Heath)
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 by: Clifford Heath - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 23:32 UTC

On 1/5/22 1:51 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 15:02:22 GMT, Jan Panteltje
> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> been working in the garden for hours, did put a peach seed in the ground in a sunny place,
>> wonder if it will grow into a tree.
>
> We have a wonderful Meyer lemon tree in our tiny back yard. Neignbors
> drop in when they need a lemon or two, and a couple are trying to
> clone it from seeds or cuttings.

Happiness is a happy Meyer lemon - so prolific. But you probably need to
graft it to an appropriate root-stock. A cutting won't grow happy roots,
and a seed won't give you a clone.

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kwzfbkv1ua41p9i/Lemons_Post-Rat.JPG?raw=1

For the rats, get a 20l bucket, the tall kind that trades use. Put a bit
of broomstick across the top with 3 bits of PVC pipe so they spin. Put
8" of water in the bottom, raise up the handle and bait it with peanut
butter. Rats step onto the tubes, fall in and drown. Someone near here
got nine in just one night.

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7ji04b7mfj0pt5/Arbor_Small_Farm.jpg?raw=1

Did you intend to doxx yourself? <https://goo.gl/maps/yjoW4e8KAEhxjdEE8>

> It took a big crew and a giant crane to lift the steel staircase over
> the house into the back yard. The payback in veggies is probably 300
> years or so.

We're also on a steep rocky slope, but the block is wide and the rock
forms ramps - it's a long walk from the street to the furthest point,
because you traverse the block side-to-side three times (35m wide at the
back). It's amazingly productive though - we have over 35 kinds of food
plants growing. It's better than weeds, at least.

CH

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

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From: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:35:46 -0700
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Sun, 1 May 2022 01:35 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 09:32:48 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
wrote:

>On 1/5/22 1:51 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 15:02:22 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> been working in the garden for hours, did put a peach seed in the ground in a sunny place,
>>> wonder if it will grow into a tree.
>>
>> We have a wonderful Meyer lemon tree in our tiny back yard. Neignbors
>> drop in when they need a lemon or two, and a couple are trying to
>> clone it from seeds or cuttings.
>
>Happiness is a happy Meyer lemon - so prolific. But you probably need to
>graft it to an appropriate root-stock. A cutting won't grow happy roots,
>and a seed won't give you a clone.
>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kwzfbkv1ua41p9i/Lemons_Post-Rat.JPG?raw=1

We did buy it from a garden center, so it was probably grafted.

>
>For the rats, get a 20l bucket, the tall kind that trades use. Put a bit
>of broomstick across the top with 3 bits of PVC pipe so they spin. Put
>8" of water in the bottom, raise up the handle and bait it with peanut
>butter. Rats step onto the tubes, fall in and drown. Someone near here
>got nine in just one night.

I put an LED light near the base and that keeps them away.

>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7ji04b7mfj0pt5/Arbor_Small_Farm.jpg?raw=1
>
>Did you intend to doxx yourself? <https://goo.gl/maps/yjoW4e8KAEhxjdEE8>

Well, you just did.

I use my real name so anybody who really tries can find me. I'll offer
visitors a beer.

>
>> It took a big crew and a giant crane to lift the steel staircase over
>> the house into the back yard. The payback in veggies is probably 300
>> years or so.
>
>We're also on a steep rocky slope, but the block is wide and the rock
>forms ramps - it's a long walk from the street to the furthest point,
>because you traverse the block side-to-side three times (35m wide at the
>back). It's amazingly productive though - we have over 35 kinds of food
>plants growing. It's better than weeds, at least.
>
>CH

A rocky slope is supposed to be best for earthquakes. Less sloshing,
and the houses are anchored in the rock.

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<ecb5c3c6-f07f-d08e-5f2a-eb26131067a0@electrooptical.net>

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Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
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 by: Phil Hobbs - Sun, 1 May 2022 02:06 UTC

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 06:36:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje
> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On a sunny day (Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:40:05 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
>> <dc8o6hpc2pges9sqe5bu71at2g531pg17o@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0
>>>
>>> Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the
>>> tiny junction size.
>>>
>>> It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode.
>>>
>>> I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter.
>>>
>>> An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine.
>>
>> Does not seem so much different from ovther RF NPN in satellite LNBs?
>> Millions of those around.
>> ?
>
> The SiGe's are just 2x or 3x faster than regular rf bipolars.
>
> I just figured that I should get some and play with them. Maybe
> explore saturation and switching, and build an oscillator maybe. Can't
> design with tubes forever.

It's more than that--their collector impedances are much larger, so you
can run much higher voltage gain, and their Rbb' is very very low, so
their voltage noise is too.

They make beautiful cascode devices for pHEMTs.

A BLM15BA050 bead in the base lead makes them very well behaved.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<16ead9afc0251bc1$4$1164557$e6ddec62@news.thecubenet.com>

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Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
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 by: Clifford Heath - Sun, 1 May 2022 02:19 UTC

On 1/5/22 11:35 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> I use my real name so anybody who really tries can find me. I'll offer
> visitors a beer.

Same. I figure anonymity is a lost cause.

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<df207hp9hsu0e6k8n421g85n3dek50bn73@4ax.com>

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From: jlar...@highland_atwork_technology.com (John Larkin)
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Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
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 by: John Larkin - Mon, 2 May 2022 16:42 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 12:19:21 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
wrote:

>On 1/5/22 11:35 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> I use my real name so anybody who really tries can find me. I'll offer
>> visitors a beer.
>
>Same. I figure anonymity is a lost cause.

Especially when jerks want to be cute.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<t4p5oj$o08$1@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Mon, 2 May 2022 17:52 UTC

On a sunny day (Mon, 02 May 2022 09:42:51 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
<df207hp9hsu0e6k8n421g85n3dek50bn73@4ax.com>:

>On Sun, 1 May 2022 12:19:21 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On 1/5/22 11:35 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> I use my real name so anybody who really tries can find me. I'll offer
>>> visitors a beer.
>>
>>Same. I figure anonymity is a lost cause.
>
>Especially when jerks want to be cute.

I even have my GPS coordinates in some pictures I posted...
:-)

"You know who I am, you stared at thet sun,. I am the one who loves changing from nothing to one"
"Leonard Cohen, Songs from a room"

sigs...
:-)

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

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Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
References: <dc8o6hpc2pges9sqe5bu71at2g531pg17o@4ax.com> <t4ilck$4ub$1@dont-email.me> <qvhq6htpluaun4ka3v0u07p9tmanusip7p@4ax.com> <t4jj1v$1s3$1@dont-email.me> <tglq6h13k2cmildj7d58egf57tqfotprhc@4ax.com> <16ead09971be51fc$2$1164557$e6ddec62@news.thecubenet.com> <7ior6hde90gk7id045j4821hnk742dqc0f@4ax.com> <16ead9afc0251bc1$4$1164557$e6ddec62@news.thecubenet.com> <df207hp9hsu0e6k8n421g85n3dek50bn73@4ax.com>
From: no.s...@please.net (Clifford Heath)
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 10:41:37 +1000
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 by: Clifford Heath - Tue, 3 May 2022 00:41 UTC

On 3/5/22 2:42 am, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 1 May 2022 12:19:21 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/5/22 11:35 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> I use my real name so anybody who really tries can find me. I'll offer
>>> visitors a beer.
>>
>> Same. I figure anonymity is a lost cause.
>
> Especially when jerks want to be cute.
>

You're the one who posted your street name and a photo of your backyard.
Your Meyer lemon tree is clearly visible on Google aerial imagery.

shrug

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<ba417htfacmcqk245dqld7iuu2fqtjkc10@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=96061&group=sci.electronics.design#96061

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From: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 19:20:04 -0700
Message-ID: <ba417htfacmcqk245dqld7iuu2fqtjkc10@4ax.com>
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Tue, 3 May 2022 02:20 UTC

On Tue, 3 May 2022 10:41:37 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
wrote:

>On 3/5/22 2:42 am, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 May 2022 12:19:21 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/5/22 11:35 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>> I use my real name so anybody who really tries can find me. I'll offer
>>>> visitors a beer.
>>>
>>> Same. I figure anonymity is a lost cause.
>>
>> Especially when jerks want to be cute.
>>
>
>You're the one who posted your street name and a photo of your backyard.
>Your Meyer lemon tree is clearly visible on Google aerial imagery.
>
>shrug

Jerk.

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<XnsAE8C1E0377A90idtokenpost@144.76.35.252>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=96075&group=sci.electronics.design#96075

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@not.com (Mike Monett)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 06:57:11 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike Monett - Tue, 3 May 2022 06:57 UTC

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

> On Tue, 3 May 2022 10:41:37 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On 3/5/22 2:42 am, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Sun, 1 May 2022 12:19:21 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/5/22 11:35 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>> I use my real name so anybody who really tries can find me. I'll
>>>>> offer visitors a beer.
>>>>
>>>> Same. I figure anonymity is a lost cause.
>>>
>>> Especially when jerks want to be cute.
>>>
>>
>>You're the one who posted your street name and a photo of your backyard.
>>Your Meyer lemon tree is clearly visible on Google aerial imagery.
>>
>>shrug
>
> Jerk.

Please stop responding to him. You waste our time checking your post only
to find it is trading insults. Plonk him or whatever you have to do in
your newsclient so you don't have to read his posts. This is an
electronics newsgroup, not a teenage forum.

--
MRM

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<eie27h5l6mmji6f8lhe88aop4g7ph68hf8@4ax.com>

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From: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 07:21:30 -0700
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Tue, 3 May 2022 14:21 UTC

On Tue, 3 May 2022 06:57:11 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
wrote:

>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 3 May 2022 10:41:37 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 3/5/22 2:42 am, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 1 May 2022 12:19:21 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/5/22 11:35 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>> I use my real name so anybody who really tries can find me. I'll
>>>>>> offer visitors a beer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Same. I figure anonymity is a lost cause.
>>>>
>>>> Especially when jerks want to be cute.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You're the one who posted your street name and a photo of your backyard.
>>>Your Meyer lemon tree is clearly visible on Google aerial imagery.
>>>
>>>shrug
>>
>> Jerk.
>
>Please stop responding to him. You waste our time checking your post only
>to find it is trading insults.

Then plonk me too.

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements

<XnsAE8C8F8FEFA6Fidtokenpost@144.76.35.252>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=96138&group=sci.electronics.design#96138

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From: spa...@not.com (Mike Monett)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 18:06:47 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike Monett - Tue, 3 May 2022 18:06 UTC

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

> On Tue, 3 May 2022 06:57:11 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
> wrote:
>
>>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 3 May 2022 10:41:37 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 3/5/22 2:42 am, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 1 May 2022 12:19:21 +1000, Clifford Heath
>>>>> <no.spam@please.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/5/22 11:35 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>>> I use my real name so anybody who really tries can find me. I'll
>>>>>>> offer visitors a beer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same. I figure anonymity is a lost cause.
>>>>>
>>>>> Especially when jerks want to be cute.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You're the one who posted your street name and a photo of your
>>>>backyard. Your Meyer lemon tree is clearly visible on Google aerial
>>>>imagery.
>>>>
>>>>shrug
>>>
>>> Jerk.
>>
>>Please stop responding to him. You waste our time checking your post
>>only to find it is trading insults.
>
> Then plonk me too.

PLONK

--
MRM

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