Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> Parts are a great deal more reasonably priced with the older used parts.
> You might need to look around some to find stuff in good shape because I
> assume from Andrew's claim that you can't get spare parts for Shimano
> levers that people intend to sell the most awful junk for spare parts.
>
> I know that they need special tools to take things like outside levers on
> and off since I modeled and carved several wooden devices that would
> allow you to knock the locking pins out of the Shimano levers (and also a
> set for Campy 10 speed) without damaging the levers. But still, The
> Shimano lever caps for the 6800 series is practically made out of
> tin-foil and it is difficult to find levers that aren't damaged.
>
> There are a lot of 6970 (10 speed Di2) levers on the market but I don't
> know what you would do with them. You haven't been able to get those
> special wires almost from the day they issued the 10 speed electronic
> shifting. The only thing I can assume you could use them for is a
> replacement for a set of broken levers that already have the wiring
> installed. You couldn't build a 10 speed Di2 because NONE of the special
> parts other than the levers (used) are available. Where would you find a
> terminal block or a 1600 mm downtube wire?
>
> I have never seen a medium arm Dura Ace rear derailleur. You can find the
> occasional long arm which is used for triples but I don't think that the
> short arm is any longer than on the short cage derailleur. This puts a
> low gear for a 10 speed triple to a 30 small ring and a 28 large cog. I
> simply bought a long cage XTR rear derailleur of the proper year.
>
> The Basso is going to be built the way I want it built. wide ratio rear
> cogset (38 large ring so that I can climb a lot in the large ring if necessary (Dublin
> Grade) and the 11 tooth will only be used in the 34. There won't be a
> load of extra gears that you jump over and never use. In this regard I
> can see Krygowski's use of a 7 speed freewheel on his bike since he rides
> almost entirely on the flats and he doesn't much change gears. But of
> course the freewheel doesn't have bearings out near the edge of the axle
> and your freewheel bike can and does break axles. And there the heck do
> you get freewheels anymore.
>

Do seems like making life harder for your self, of my 3 bikes two are 10
speed but more modern systems but being mid end chains cassettes are easy
to come by, and cheap and at least with a double has a decent range.

My Gravel bike runs Tiagra and the MTB due to its age has had some
upgrades, but broadly Deore level, brakes are slightly higher spec SLX, and
rear mech is a newer Deore so has clutch and so on.

Roger Merriman

On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 23:27:24 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Parts are a great deal more reasonably priced with the older used parts.
>> You might need to look around some to find stuff in good shape because I
>> assume from Andrew's claim that you can't get spare parts for Shimano
>> levers that people intend to sell the most awful junk for spare parts.
>>
>> I know that they need special tools to take things like outside levers on
>> and off since I modeled and carved several wooden devices that would
>> allow you to knock the locking pins out of the Shimano levers (and also a
>> set for Campy 10 speed) without damaging the levers. But still, The
>> Shimano lever caps for the 6800 series is practically made out of
>> tin-foil and it is difficult to find levers that aren't damaged.
>>
>> There are a lot of 6970 (10 speed Di2) levers on the market but I don't
>> know what you would do with them. You haven't been able to get those
>> special wires almost from the day they issued the 10 speed electronic
>> shifting. The only thing I can assume you could use them for is a
>> replacement for a set of broken levers that already have the wiring
>> installed. You couldn't build a 10 speed Di2 because NONE of the special
>> parts other than the levers (used) are available. Where would you find a
>> terminal block or a 1600 mm downtube wire?
>>
>> I have never seen a medium arm Dura Ace rear derailleur. You can find the
>> occasional long arm which is used for triples but I don't think that the
>> short arm is any longer than on the short cage derailleur. This puts a
>> low gear for a 10 speed triple to a 30 small ring and a 28 large cog. I
>> simply bought a long cage XTR rear derailleur of the proper year.
>>
>> The Basso is going to be built the way I want it built. wide ratio rear
>> cogset (38 large ring so that I can climb a lot in the large ring if necessary (Dublin
>> Grade) and the 11 tooth will only be used in the 34. There won't be a
>> load of extra gears that you jump over and never use. In this regard I
>> can see Krygowski's use of a 7 speed freewheel on his bike since he rides
>> almost entirely on the flats and he doesn't much change gears. But of
>> course the freewheel doesn't have bearings out near the edge of the axle
>> and your freewheel bike can and does break axles. And there the heck do
>> you get freewheels anymore.
>>
>
>Do seems like making life harder for your self, of my 3 bikes two are 10
>speed but more modern systems but being mid end chains cassettes are easy
>to come by, and cheap and at least with a double has a decent range.
>
>My Gravel bike runs Tiagra and the MTB due to its age has had some
>upgrades, but broadly Deore level, brakes are slightly higher spec SLX, and
>rear mech is a newer Deore so has clutch and so on.
>
>Roger Merriman

:-) Years ago I converted a "mountain bike" to a "flat land" bike -
replaced the front suspension forks, added drop handle bars, etc. I
went down to my friendly bicycle shop and told them, "I want a shift
system for this bike I'm building". They sold me (this was back in the
9 speed days) a Shimano system. I installed it and it's still working.

While admittedly one example isn't proof for all systems but it does
indicate, I believe, that if you install the right parts the system
Will work (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 11/22/2023 6:43 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 23:27:24 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Parts are a great deal more reasonably priced with the older used parts.
>>> You might need to look around some to find stuff in good shape because I
>>> assume from Andrew's claim that you can't get spare parts for Shimano
>>> levers that people intend to sell the most awful junk for spare parts.
>>>
>>> I know that they need special tools to take things like outside levers on
>>> and off since I modeled and carved several wooden devices that would
>>> allow you to knock the locking pins out of the Shimano levers (and also a
>>> set for Campy 10 speed) without damaging the levers. But still, The
>>> Shimano lever caps for the 6800 series is practically made out of
>>> tin-foil and it is difficult to find levers that aren't damaged.
>>>
>>> There are a lot of 6970 (10 speed Di2) levers on the market but I don't
>>> know what you would do with them. You haven't been able to get those
>>> special wires almost from the day they issued the 10 speed electronic
>>> shifting. The only thing I can assume you could use them for is a
>>> replacement for a set of broken levers that already have the wiring
>>> installed. You couldn't build a 10 speed Di2 because NONE of the special
>>> parts other than the levers (used) are available. Where would you find a
>>> terminal block or a 1600 mm downtube wire?
>>>
>>> I have never seen a medium arm Dura Ace rear derailleur. You can find the
>>> occasional long arm which is used for triples but I don't think that the
>>> short arm is any longer than on the short cage derailleur. This puts a
>>> low gear for a 10 speed triple to a 30 small ring and a 28 large cog. I
>>> simply bought a long cage XTR rear derailleur of the proper year.
>>>
>>> The Basso is going to be built the way I want it built. wide ratio rear
>>> cogset (38 large ring so that I can climb a lot in the large ring if necessary (Dublin
>>> Grade) and the 11 tooth will only be used in the 34. There won't be a
>>> load of extra gears that you jump over and never use. In this regard I
>>> can see Krygowski's use of a 7 speed freewheel on his bike since he rides
>>> almost entirely on the flats and he doesn't much change gears. But of
>>> course the freewheel doesn't have bearings out near the edge of the axle
>>> and your freewheel bike can and does break axles. And there the heck do
>>> you get freewheels anymore.
>>>
>>
>> Do seems like making life harder for your self, of my 3 bikes two are 10
>> speed but more modern systems but being mid end chains cassettes are easy
>> to come by, and cheap and at least with a double has a decent range.
>>
>> My Gravel bike runs Tiagra and the MTB due to its age has had some
>> upgrades, but broadly Deore level, brakes are slightly higher spec SLX, and
>> rear mech is a newer Deore so has clutch and so on.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> :-) Years ago I converted a "mountain bike" to a "flat land" bike -
> replaced the front suspension forks, added drop handle bars, etc. I
> went down to my friendly bicycle shop and told them, "I want a shift
> system for this bike I'm building". They sold me (this was back in the
> 9 speed days) a Shimano system. I installed it and it's still working.
>
> While admittedly one example isn't proof for all systems but it does
> indicate, I believe, that if you install the right parts the system
> Will work (:-)

That's true for _you_, Mr Slocumb.

Others, in some cases, have an aversion to reading
directions often combined with poor intuition and misplaced
confidence.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 20:17:16 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/22/2023 6:43 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 23:27:24 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Parts are a great deal more reasonably priced with the older used parts.
>>>> You might need to look around some to find stuff in good shape because I
>>>> assume from Andrew's claim that you can't get spare parts for Shimano
>>>> levers that people intend to sell the most awful junk for spare parts.
>>>>
>>>> I know that they need special tools to take things like outside levers on
>>>> and off since I modeled and carved several wooden devices that would
>>>> allow you to knock the locking pins out of the Shimano levers (and also a
>>>> set for Campy 10 speed) without damaging the levers. But still, The
>>>> Shimano lever caps for the 6800 series is practically made out of
>>>> tin-foil and it is difficult to find levers that aren't damaged.
>>>>
>>>> There are a lot of 6970 (10 speed Di2) levers on the market but I don't
>>>> know what you would do with them. You haven't been able to get those
>>>> special wires almost from the day they issued the 10 speed electronic
>>>> shifting. The only thing I can assume you could use them for is a
>>>> replacement for a set of broken levers that already have the wiring
>>>> installed. You couldn't build a 10 speed Di2 because NONE of the special
>>>> parts other than the levers (used) are available. Where would you find a
>>>> terminal block or a 1600 mm downtube wire?
>>>>
>>>> I have never seen a medium arm Dura Ace rear derailleur. You can find the
>>>> occasional long arm which is used for triples but I don't think that the
>>>> short arm is any longer than on the short cage derailleur. This puts a
>>>> low gear for a 10 speed triple to a 30 small ring and a 28 large cog. I
>>>> simply bought a long cage XTR rear derailleur of the proper year.
>>>>
>>>> The Basso is going to be built the way I want it built. wide ratio rear
>>>> cogset (38 large ring so that I can climb a lot in the large ring if necessary (Dublin
>>>> Grade) and the 11 tooth will only be used in the 34. There won't be a
>>>> load of extra gears that you jump over and never use. In this regard I
>>>> can see Krygowski's use of a 7 speed freewheel on his bike since he rides
>>>> almost entirely on the flats and he doesn't much change gears. But of
>>>> course the freewheel doesn't have bearings out near the edge of the axle
>>>> and your freewheel bike can and does break axles. And there the heck do
>>>> you get freewheels anymore.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Do seems like making life harder for your self, of my 3 bikes two are 10
>>> speed but more modern systems but being mid end chains cassettes are easy
>>> to come by, and cheap and at least with a double has a decent range.
>>>
>>> My Gravel bike runs Tiagra and the MTB due to its age has had some
>>> upgrades, but broadly Deore level, brakes are slightly higher spec SLX, and
>>> rear mech is a newer Deore so has clutch and so on.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> :-) Years ago I converted a "mountain bike" to a "flat land" bike -
>> replaced the front suspension forks, added drop handle bars, etc. I
>> went down to my friendly bicycle shop and told them, "I want a shift
>> system for this bike I'm building". They sold me (this was back in the
>> 9 speed days) a Shimano system. I installed it and it's still working.
>>
>> While admittedly one example isn't proof for all systems but it does
>> indicate, I believe, that if you install the right parts the system
>> Will work (:-)
>
>That's true for _you_, Mr Slocumb.
>
>Others, in some cases, have an aversion to reading
>directions often combined with poor intuition and misplaced
>confidence.

My wife's car was a Honda HRV, and, my wife was a rather self
sufficient woman who took care of "her" things so when the periodic
service was due she drove "HER" car to the Agent for servicing.

Never had a single problem with that car :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 11/22/2023 6:43 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 23:27:24 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Parts are a great deal more reasonably priced with the older used parts.
>>>> You might need to look around some to find stuff in good shape because I
>>>> assume from Andrew's claim that you can't get spare parts for Shimano
>>>> levers that people intend to sell the most awful junk for spare parts.
>>>>
>>>> I know that they need special tools to take things like outside levers on
>>>> and off since I modeled and carved several wooden devices that would
>>>> allow you to knock the locking pins out of the Shimano levers (and also a
>>>> set for Campy 10 speed) without damaging the levers. But still, The
>>>> Shimano lever caps for the 6800 series is practically made out of
>>>> tin-foil and it is difficult to find levers that aren't damaged.
>>>>
>>>> There are a lot of 6970 (10 speed Di2) levers on the market but I don't
>>>> know what you would do with them. You haven't been able to get those
>>>> special wires almost from the day they issued the 10 speed electronic
>>>> shifting. The only thing I can assume you could use them for is a
>>>> replacement for a set of broken levers that already have the wiring
>>>> installed. You couldn't build a 10 speed Di2 because NONE of the special
>>>> parts other than the levers (used) are available. Where would you find a
>>>> terminal block or a 1600 mm downtube wire?
>>>>
>>>> I have never seen a medium arm Dura Ace rear derailleur. You can find the
>>>> occasional long arm which is used for triples but I don't think that the
>>>> short arm is any longer than on the short cage derailleur. This puts a
>>>> low gear for a 10 speed triple to a 30 small ring and a 28 large cog. I
>>>> simply bought a long cage XTR rear derailleur of the proper year.
>>>>
>>>> The Basso is going to be built the way I want it built. wide ratio rear
>>>> cogset (38 large ring so that I can climb a lot in the large ring if necessary (Dublin
>>>> Grade) and the 11 tooth will only be used in the 34. There won't be a
>>>> load of extra gears that you jump over and never use. In this regard I
>>>> can see Krygowski's use of a 7 speed freewheel on his bike since he rides
>>>> almost entirely on the flats and he doesn't much change gears. But of
>>>> course the freewheel doesn't have bearings out near the edge of the axle
>>>> and your freewheel bike can and does break axles. And there the heck do
>>>> you get freewheels anymore.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Do seems like making life harder for your self, of my 3 bikes two are 10
>>> speed but more modern systems but being mid end chains cassettes are easy
>>> to come by, and cheap and at least with a double has a decent range.
>>>
>>> My Gravel bike runs Tiagra and the MTB due to its age has had some
>>> upgrades, but broadly Deore level, brakes are slightly higher spec SLX, and
>>> rear mech is a newer Deore so has clutch and so on.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> :-) Years ago I converted a "mountain bike" to a "flat land" bike -
>> replaced the front suspension forks, added drop handle bars, etc. I
>> went down to my friendly bicycle shop and told them, "I want a shift
>> system for this bike I'm building". They sold me (this was back in the
>> 9 speed days) a Shimano system. I installed it and it's still working.
>>
>> While admittedly one example isn't proof for all systems but it does
>> indicate, I believe, that if you install the right parts the system
>> Will work (:-)
>
> That's true for _you_, Mr Slocumb.
>
> Others, in some cases, have an aversion to reading
> directions often combined with poor intuition and misplaced
> confidence.

Plus 9 speed was cross compatible MTB/road I believe which isn’t the case
in most cases with more modern systems though I believe SRAM mullet ie MTB
cassette with road shifters is a thing with modern 12s systems.

Ie it’s got more complicated and less compatible as time has gone on.

Roger Merriman

Am Thu, 23 Nov 2023 09:41:01 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
<roger@sarlet.com>:

>Plus 9 speed was cross compatible MTB/road I believe which isn’t the case
>in most cases with more modern systems though I believe SRAM mullet ie MTB
>cassette with road shifters is a thing with modern 12s systems.

That's exactly what I used when building two bikes earlier this year,
one for my wife, one for me.

<https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pluspora/plainpostings/20230619t2154-2023_06_19_effelsberg_again.html>

It's probably obvious which is which. :-)

2 x SRAM Force eTap AXS HRD,
1 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS Rival DUB Wide AXS Quarq Powermeter for her,
1 x SRAM Force 1 DUB DM 1x12-speed Carbon Crankset for me
(using Garmin XC 200 from older bike).
2 x SRAM X-Sync Road Direct Mount Chainring for Red / Force (40 teeth)
2 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS 12-Speed Rear Derailleur (10-52)

>
>Ie it’s got more complicated and less compatible as time has gone on.

It is. But it was the only product which supported this combination from
a single source. So in this specific case, SRAM components where more
compatible between road and MTB gear than those from Shimano.

--
Thank you for observing all safety precautions

Wolfgang Strobl <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
> Am Thu, 23 Nov 2023 09:41:01 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
> <roger@sarlet.com>:
>
>> Plus 9 speed was cross compatible MTB/road I believe which isn’t the case
>> in most cases with more modern systems though I believe SRAM mullet ie MTB
>> cassette with road shifters is a thing with modern 12s systems.
>
> That's exactly what I used when building two bikes earlier this year,
> one for my wife, one for me.
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pluspora/plainpostings/20230619t2154-2023_06_19_effelsberg_again.html>
>
> It's probably obvious which is which. :-)
>
> 2 x SRAM Force eTap AXS HRD,
> 1 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS Rival DUB Wide AXS Quarq Powermeter for her,
> 1 x SRAM Force 1 DUB DM 1x12-speed Carbon Crankset for me
> (using Garmin XC 200 from older bike).
> 2 x SRAM X-Sync Road Direct Mount Chainring for Red / Force (40 teeth)
> 2 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS 12-Speed Rear Derailleur (10-52)
>
Some fairly low gearing there, very close to my MTB in spread and gearing
which is arguably as it’s a 1st gen 29er slightly overgeared admittedly.

Arguably more folks would do better with that gear range ie low than high!
>
>>
>> Ie it’s got more complicated and less compatible as time has gone on.
>
> It is. But it was the only product which supported this combination from
> a single source. So in this specific case, SRAM components where more
> compatible between road and MTB gear than those from Shimano.
>
You can with GRX/Tiagra use Deore ie MTB cassettes though only up to 34t so
hardly a proper Mullet it’s what I’m toying with as an idea ie go from 32
to 34 cassette.

Roger Merriman

Am Fri, 24 Nov 2023 00:19:37 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
<roger@sarlet.com>:

>Wolfgang Strobl <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>> Am Thu, 23 Nov 2023 09:41:01 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
>> <roger@sarlet.com>:
>>
>>> Plus 9 speed was cross compatible MTB/road I believe which isn’t the case
>>> in most cases with more modern systems though I believe SRAM mullet ie MTB
>>> cassette with road shifters is a thing with modern 12s systems.
>>
>> That's exactly what I used when building two bikes earlier this year,
>> one for my wife, one for me.
>>
>> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pluspora/plainpostings/20230619t2154-2023_06_19_effelsberg_again.html>
>>
>> It's probably obvious which is which. :-)

>>
>> 2 x SRAM Force eTap AXS HRD,
>> 1 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS Rival DUB Wide AXS Quarq Powermeter for her,
>> 1 x SRAM Force 1 DUB DM 1x12-speed Carbon Crankset for me
>> (using Garmin XC 200 from older bike).
>> 2 x SRAM X-Sync Road Direct Mount Chainring for Red / Force (40 teeth)
>> 2 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS 12-Speed Rear Derailleur (10-52)
>>
>Some fairly low gearing there, very close to my MTB in spread and gearing
>which is arguably as it’s a 1st gen 29er slightly overgeared admittedly.
>
>Arguably more folks would do better with that gear range ie low than high!

Most at our age sureley would do better that way. On the other hand, I
enjoy being able to still pedal at high riding speed. It's not about
getting faster, but about not losing speed and about continuously using
my muscles. But when in doubt, I prefer the climbing ability.

>>
>>>
>>> Ie it’s got more complicated and less compatible as time has gone on.
>>
>> It is. But it was the only product which supported this combination from
>> a single source. So in this specific case, SRAM components where more
>> compatible between road and MTB gear than those from Shimano.
>>
>You can with GRX/Tiagra use Deore ie MTB cassettes though only up to 34t so
>hardly a proper Mullet it’s what I’m toying with as an idea ie go from 32
>to 34 cassette.

My old somewhat custom configured road/race bike from 2010, equipped
with Ultegra ST-6703 is 3 x 10, 52/39/30 in front, originally 12-25. At
the same time, my wife got a Scott Contessa, same configuration, but
105, from a different shop.

Years later, after somewhat recovering and becoming able to ride longer
and steeper routes again, I switched to 11-28 on both bikes and finally
to 12-30 on my bike in early 2022. Originally I bought the cassette for
my wife's bike, but unfortunately, I didn't get it noise free there,
most probably due to a shorter wheelbase combined with a somewhat
inferior deraillieur.

30/30, or 1:1, was the lowest possible ratio on my bike. Now we both
have 40/52, with the possibility of easily going even lower with a
linear configuration by simply swapping the chainring.

--
Thank you for observing all safety precautions

On Fri, 24 Nov 2023 08:43:20 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>Last Tuesday I stopped to take a picture of that sign that Liebermann claimed couldn't possibly be true - the open field that was once filled with water and is now totally filled in with what looks like land but the sign says - "Keep Out, Deep Mud".

Nope. I have twice asked you for the location (on Google Maps or
equivalent) of your mythical mud filled lake. So far, you haven't
delivered. I'll wait.

A photo of the "deep mud" sign would also be interesting. Looks like
those are commercially available:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=sign+deep+mud&udm=2>
Oddly, none of them look official. I like this "sign":
<https://www.redbubble.com/i/sticker/Danger-Deep-Mud-Keep-Out-Sign-by-janicerafael/59479892.EJUG5>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, November 23, 2023 at 4:19:41 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Wolfgang Strobl <ne...@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>> Am Thu, 23 Nov 2023 09:41:01 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
>>> <ro...@sarlet.com>:
>>>
>>>> Plus 9 speed was cross compatible MTB/road I believe which isn’t the case
>>>> in most cases with more modern systems though I believe SRAM mullet ie MTB
>>>> cassette with road shifters is a thing with modern 12s systems.
>>>
>>> That's exactly what I used when building two bikes earlier this year,
>>> one for my wife, one for me.
>>>
>>> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pluspora/plainpostings/20230619t2154-2023_06_19_effelsberg_again.html>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's probably obvious which is which. :-)
>>>
>>> 2 x SRAM Force eTap AXS HRD,
>>> 1 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS Rival DUB Wide AXS Quarq Powermeter for her,
>>> 1 x SRAM Force 1 DUB DM 1x12-speed Carbon Crankset for me
>>> (using Garmin XC 200 from older bike).
>>> 2 x SRAM X-Sync Road Direct Mount Chainring for Red / Force (40 teeth)
>>> 2 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS 12-Speed Rear Derailleur (10-52)
>>>
>> Some fairly low gearing there, very close to my MTB in spread and gearing
>> which is arguably as it’s a 1st gen 29er slightly overgeared admittedly.
>>
>> Arguably more folks would do better with that gear range ie low than high!
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ie it’s got more complicated and less compatible as time has gone on.
>>>
>>> It is. But it was the only product which supported this combination from
>>> a single source. So in this specific case, SRAM components where more
>>> compatible between road and MTB gear than those from Shimano.
>>>
>> You can with GRX/Tiagra use Deore ie MTB cassettes though only up to 34t so
>> hardly a proper Mullet it’s what I’m toying with as an idea ie go from 32
>> to 34 cassette.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
> Last Tuesday I stopped to take a picture of that sign that Liebermann
> claimed couldn't possibly be true - the open field that was once filled
> with water and is now totally filled in with what looks like land but the
> sign says - "Keep Out, Deep Mud".
>
> My low gear is 34-34 on that bike and the cranks went from TDC to BDC too
> rapidly for me to clip in so I had to walk to the top of that rather mild
> hill. So, while there are advantages or even necessities for large gears
> (especially on full suspension bikes) there are disadvantages as well.
> Particularly on light bikes.
>

Sorry that makes no sense, if the gearing was too low just shift it up? And
yes some folks do struggle with low speed balance on the bike, I don’t and
even with a damaged balance systems I can track stand or roll slowly even
on steep grades, ie 20/30% and yes low gears absolutely do make steeper
hills easier and less tiring as your having to muscle than spin up
sections.

It maybe that you like higher gears and prefer to grind.

Roger Merriman

Wolfgang Strobl <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
> Am Fri, 24 Nov 2023 00:19:37 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
> <roger@sarlet.com>:
>
>> Wolfgang Strobl <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>> Am Thu, 23 Nov 2023 09:41:01 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
>>> <roger@sarlet.com>:
>>>
>>>> Plus 9 speed was cross compatible MTB/road I believe which isn’t the case
>>>> in most cases with more modern systems though I believe SRAM mullet ie MTB
>>>> cassette with road shifters is a thing with modern 12s systems.
>>>
>>> That's exactly what I used when building two bikes earlier this year,
>>> one for my wife, one for me.
>>>
>>> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pluspora/plainpostings/20230619t2154-2023_06_19_effelsberg_again.html>
>>>
>>> It's probably obvious which is which. :-)
>
>>>
>>> 2 x SRAM Force eTap AXS HRD,
>>> 1 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS Rival DUB Wide AXS Quarq Powermeter for her,
>>> 1 x SRAM Force 1 DUB DM 1x12-speed Carbon Crankset for me
>>> (using Garmin XC 200 from older bike).
>>> 2 x SRAM X-Sync Road Direct Mount Chainring for Red / Force (40 teeth)
>>> 2 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS 12-Speed Rear Derailleur (10-52)
>>>
>> Some fairly low gearing there, very close to my MTB in spread and gearing
>> which is arguably as it’s a 1st gen 29er slightly overgeared admittedly.
>>
>> Arguably more folks would do better with that gear range ie low than high!
>
> Most at our age sureley would do better that way. On the other hand, I
> enjoy being able to still pedal at high riding speed. It's not about
> getting faster, but about not losing speed and about continuously using
> my muscles. But when in doubt, I prefer the climbing ability.
>
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ie it’s got more complicated and less compatible as time has gone on.
>>>
>>> It is. But it was the only product which supported this combination from
>>> a single source. So in this specific case, SRAM components where more
>>> compatible between road and MTB gear than those from Shimano.
>>>
>> You can with GRX/Tiagra use Deore ie MTB cassettes though only up to 34t so
>> hardly a proper Mullet it’s what I’m toying with as an idea ie go from 32
>> to 34 cassette.
>
Correction I have a 34t cassette but could with a new mech fit a 36t
cassette which I’m mulling over as I’ve done over 5k (miles) in wet weather
so needs doing soon!

> My old somewhat custom configured road/race bike from 2010, equipped
> with Ultegra ST-6703 is 3 x 10, 52/39/30 in front, originally 12-25. At
> the same time, my wife got a Scott Contessa, same configuration, but
> 105, from a different shop.
>
> Years later, after somewhat recovering and becoming able to ride longer
> and steeper routes again, I switched to 11-28 on both bikes and finally
> to 12-30 on my bike in early 2022. Originally I bought the cassette for
> my wife's bike, but unfortunately, I didn't get it noise free there,
> most probably due to a shorter wheelbase combined with a somewhat
> inferior deraillieur.
>
> 30/30, or 1:1, was the lowest possible ratio on my bike. Now we both
> have 40/52, with the possibility of easily going even lower with a
> linear configuration by simply swapping the chainring.
>
>
>
I’d assume that would be enough, similar gearing got me slowly up various
steep road climbs in the first year after my brain injury ie where I was
still fairly unwell and weak. So being able to just plod up stuff was
hugely important!

Roger Merriman

On Fri, 24 Nov 2023 23:12:57 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Wolfgang Strobl <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>> Am Fri, 24 Nov 2023 00:19:37 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
>> <roger@sarlet.com>:
>>
>>> Wolfgang Strobl <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>>> Am Thu, 23 Nov 2023 09:41:01 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
>>>> <roger@sarlet.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Plus 9 speed was cross compatible MTB/road I believe which isn’t the case
>>>>> in most cases with more modern systems though I believe SRAM mullet ie MTB
>>>>> cassette with road shifters is a thing with modern 12s systems.
>>>>
>>>> That's exactly what I used when building two bikes earlier this year,
>>>> one for my wife, one for me.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pluspora/plainpostings/20230619t2154-2023_06_19_effelsberg_again.html>
>>>>
>>>> It's probably obvious which is which. :-)
>>
>>>>
>>>> 2 x SRAM Force eTap AXS HRD,
>>>> 1 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS Rival DUB Wide AXS Quarq Powermeter for her,
>>>> 1 x SRAM Force 1 DUB DM 1x12-speed Carbon Crankset for me
>>>> (using Garmin XC 200 from older bike).
>>>> 2 x SRAM X-Sync Road Direct Mount Chainring for Red / Force (40 teeth)
>>>> 2 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS 12-Speed Rear Derailleur (10-52)
>>>>
>>> Some fairly low gearing there, very close to my MTB in spread and gearing
>>> which is arguably as it’s a 1st gen 29er slightly overgeared admittedly.
>>>
>>> Arguably more folks would do better with that gear range ie low than high!
>>
>> Most at our age sureley would do better that way. On the other hand, I
>> enjoy being able to still pedal at high riding speed. It's not about
>> getting faster, but about not losing speed and about continuously using
>> my muscles. But when in doubt, I prefer the climbing ability.
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ie it’s got more complicated and less compatible as time has gone on.
>>>>
>>>> It is. But it was the only product which supported this combination from
>>>> a single source. So in this specific case, SRAM components where more
>>>> compatible between road and MTB gear than those from Shimano.
>>>>
>>> You can with GRX/Tiagra use Deore ie MTB cassettes though only up to 34t so
>>> hardly a proper Mullet it’s what I’m toying with as an idea ie go from 32
>>> to 34 cassette.
>>
>Correction I have a 34t cassette but could with a new mech fit a 36t
>cassette which I’m mulling over as I’ve done over 5k (miles) in wet weather
>so needs doing soon!

My Deore Deraileur says it's only good to a 34t, but mine handles a
36t without any issues beyond a little noise on the upshift.

>> My old somewhat custom configured road/race bike from 2010, equipped
>> with Ultegra ST-6703 is 3 x 10, 52/39/30 in front, originally 12-25. At
>> the same time, my wife got a Scott Contessa, same configuration, but
>> 105, from a different shop.
>>
>> Years later, after somewhat recovering and becoming able to ride longer
>> and steeper routes again, I switched to 11-28 on both bikes and finally
>> to 12-30 on my bike in early 2022. Originally I bought the cassette for
>> my wife's bike, but unfortunately, I didn't get it noise free there,
>> most probably due to a shorter wheelbase combined with a somewhat
>> inferior deraillieur.
>>
>> 30/30, or 1:1, was the lowest possible ratio on my bike. Now we both
>> have 40/52, with the possibility of easily going even lower with a
>> linear configuration by simply swapping the chainring.
>>
>>
>>
>I’d assume that would be enough, similar gearing got me slowly up various
>steep road climbs in the first year after my brain injury ie where I was
>still fairly unwell and weak. So being able to just plod up stuff was
>hugely important!
>
>Roger Merriman
>
>

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, November 24, 2023 at 3:09:08 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, November 23, 2023 at 4:19:41 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Wolfgang Strobl <ne...@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>>>> Am Thu, 23 Nov 2023 09:41:01 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
>>>>> <ro...@sarlet.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Plus 9 speed was cross compatible MTB/road I believe which isn’t the case
>>>>>> in most cases with more modern systems though I believe SRAM mullet ie MTB
>>>>>> cassette with road shifters is a thing with modern 12s systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's exactly what I used when building two bikes earlier this year,
>>>>> one for my wife, one for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pluspora/plainpostings/20230619t2154-2023_06_19_effelsberg_again.html>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's probably obvious which is which. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 x SRAM Force eTap AXS HRD,
>>>>> 1 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS Rival DUB Wide AXS Quarq Powermeter for her,
>>>>> 1 x SRAM Force 1 DUB DM 1x12-speed Carbon Crankset for me
>>>>> (using Garmin XC 200 from older bike).
>>>>> 2 x SRAM X-Sync Road Direct Mount Chainring for Red / Force (40 teeth)
>>>>> 2 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS 12-Speed Rear Derailleur (10-52)
>>>>>
>>>> Some fairly low gearing there, very close to my MTB in spread and gearing
>>>> which is arguably as it’s a 1st gen 29er slightly overgeared admittedly.
>>>>
>>>> Arguably more folks would do better with that gear range ie low than high!
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ie it’s got more complicated and less compatible as time has gone on.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is. But it was the only product which supported this combination from
>>>>> a single source. So in this specific case, SRAM components where more
>>>>> compatible between road and MTB gear than those from Shimano.
>>>>>
>>>> You can with GRX/Tiagra use Deore ie MTB cassettes though only up to 34t so
>>>> hardly a proper Mullet it’s what I’m toying with as an idea ie go from 32
>>>> to 34 cassette.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>> Last Tuesday I stopped to take a picture of that sign that Liebermann
>>> claimed couldn't possibly be true - the open field that was once filled
>>> with water and is now totally filled in with what looks like land but the
>>> sign says - "Keep Out, Deep Mud".
>>>
>>> My low gear is 34-34 on that bike and the cranks went from TDC to BDC too
>>> rapidly for me to clip in so I had to walk to the top of that rather mild
>>> hill. So, while there are advantages or even necessities for large gears
>>> (especially on full suspension bikes) there are disadvantages as well.
>>> Particularly on light bikes.
>>>
>> Sorry that makes no sense, if the gearing was too low just shift it up? And
>> yes some folks do struggle with low speed balance on the bike, I don’t and
>> even with a damaged balance systems I can track stand or roll slowly even
>> on steep grades, ie 20/30% and yes low gears absolutely do make steeper
>> hills easier and less tiring as your having to muscle than spin up
>> sections.
>>
>> It maybe that you like higher gears and prefer to grind.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
> Roger, I'm beginning to wonder if you actually ride? How do you shift
> into a higher gear if you can't clip in? How do you clip in if you can't
> turn the pedals over because the cranks go from top to bottom in one
> push? I think you spend too much time riding downhill only.
>
If anything I climb more than i descend! I use MTB Flat shoes so needs far
less than a rotation, though I did use SPD on the road bike for a few
years.

Which while took longer certainly didn’t need a full rotation, and could
clip in on steep grades if you needed to, though arguably why would you? Ie
it’s like the Irish comment “well I’d not start from there!”

But your comment was about gearing? Than the trials and tribulations of
attempting clipping in on a steep hill.

Unless the gearing is made gappy, or you loose range else where or it’s
some hack ie get some 3rd party big rear cassettes which work but not
brilliantly so.

In short if one can lower the gearing probably a good idea!

Roger Merriman

Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Nov 2023 23:12:57 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Wolfgang Strobl <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>> Am Fri, 24 Nov 2023 00:19:37 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
>>> <roger@sarlet.com>:
>>>
>>>> Wolfgang Strobl <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>>>> Am Thu, 23 Nov 2023 09:41:01 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
>>>>> <roger@sarlet.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Plus 9 speed was cross compatible MTB/road I believe which isn’t the case
>>>>>> in most cases with more modern systems though I believe SRAM mullet ie MTB
>>>>>> cassette with road shifters is a thing with modern 12s systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's exactly what I used when building two bikes earlier this year,
>>>>> one for my wife, one for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pluspora/plainpostings/20230619t2154-2023_06_19_effelsberg_again.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's probably obvious which is which. :-)
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 x SRAM Force eTap AXS HRD,
>>>>> 1 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS Rival DUB Wide AXS Quarq Powermeter for her,
>>>>> 1 x SRAM Force 1 DUB DM 1x12-speed Carbon Crankset for me
>>>>> (using Garmin XC 200 from older bike).
>>>>> 2 x SRAM X-Sync Road Direct Mount Chainring for Red / Force (40 teeth)
>>>>> 2 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS 12-Speed Rear Derailleur (10-52)
>>>>>
>>>> Some fairly low gearing there, very close to my MTB in spread and gearing
>>>> which is arguably as it’s a 1st gen 29er slightly overgeared admittedly.
>>>>
>>>> Arguably more folks would do better with that gear range ie low than high!
>>>
>>> Most at our age sureley would do better that way. On the other hand, I
>>> enjoy being able to still pedal at high riding speed. It's not about
>>> getting faster, but about not losing speed and about continuously using
>>> my muscles. But when in doubt, I prefer the climbing ability.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ie it’s got more complicated and less compatible as time has gone on.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is. But it was the only product which supported this combination from
>>>>> a single source. So in this specific case, SRAM components where more
>>>>> compatible between road and MTB gear than those from Shimano.
>>>>>
>>>> You can with GRX/Tiagra use Deore ie MTB cassettes though only up to 34t so
>>>> hardly a proper Mullet it’s what I’m toying with as an idea ie go from 32
>>>> to 34 cassette.
>>>
>> Correction I have a 34t cassette but could with a new mech fit a 36t
>> cassette which I’m mulling over as I’ve done over 5k (miles) in wet weather
>> so needs doing soon!
>
> My Deore Deraileur says it's only good to a 34t, but mine handles a
> 36t without any issues beyond a little noise on the upshift.

I’m assuming that’s 9 speed? As mine on the MTB is rated for 36t at least?
I’d probably play it safe noting the cost of a 10s GRX derailleur isn’t
huge and it’s likely to be used under high loads ie shifting up steep
terrain.

One of my fellow Gravel riders is waiting to get a new mech as it’s failed,
specially the electronics and it’s a fairly pricey thing! I think he said
£300? Where as the rear mech I’m eyeing up is £30/40.
>
>>> My old somewhat custom configured road/race bike from 2010, equipped
>>> with Ultegra ST-6703 is 3 x 10, 52/39/30 in front, originally 12-25. At
>>> the same time, my wife got a Scott Contessa, same configuration, but
>>> 105, from a different shop.
>>>
>>> Years later, after somewhat recovering and becoming able to ride longer
>>> and steeper routes again, I switched to 11-28 on both bikes and finally
>>> to 12-30 on my bike in early 2022. Originally I bought the cassette for
>>> my wife's bike, but unfortunately, I didn't get it noise free there,
>>> most probably due to a shorter wheelbase combined with a somewhat
>>> inferior deraillieur.
>>>
>>> 30/30, or 1:1, was the lowest possible ratio on my bike. Now we both
>>> have 40/52, with the possibility of easily going even lower with a
>>> linear configuration by simply swapping the chainring.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I’d assume that would be enough, similar gearing got me slowly up various
>> steep road climbs in the first year after my brain injury ie where I was
>> still fairly unwell and weak. So being able to just plod up stuff was
>> hugely important!
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>>
>>
>
Roger Merriman

On Fri, 24 Nov 2023 14:07:06 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 6:17:19?PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/22/2023 6:43 PM, John B. wrote:
>> > On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 23:27:24 GMT, Roger Merriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> Parts are a great deal more reasonably priced with the older used parts.
>> >>> You might need to look around some to find stuff in good shape because I
>> >>> assume from Andrew's claim that you can't get spare parts for Shimano
>> >>> levers that people intend to sell the most awful junk for spare parts.
>> >>>
>> >>> I know that they need special tools to take things like outside levers on
>> >>> and off since I modeled and carved several wooden devices that would
>> >>> allow you to knock the locking pins out of the Shimano levers (and also a
>> >>> set for Campy 10 speed) without damaging the levers. But still, The
>> >>> Shimano lever caps for the 6800 series is practically made out of
>> >>> tin-foil and it is difficult to find levers that aren't damaged.
>> >>>
>> >>> There are a lot of 6970 (10 speed Di2) levers on the market but I don't
>> >>> know what you would do with them. You haven't been able to get those
>> >>> special wires almost from the day they issued the 10 speed electronic
>> >>> shifting. The only thing I can assume you could use them for is a
>> >>> replacement for a set of broken levers that already have the wiring
>> >>> installed. You couldn't build a 10 speed Di2 because NONE of the special
>> >>> parts other than the levers (used) are available. Where would you find a
>> >>> terminal block or a 1600 mm downtube wire?
>> >>>
>> >>> I have never seen a medium arm Dura Ace rear derailleur. You can find the
>> >>> occasional long arm which is used for triples but I don't think that the
>> >>> short arm is any longer than on the short cage derailleur. This puts a
>> >>> low gear for a 10 speed triple to a 30 small ring and a 28 large cog. I
>> >>> simply bought a long cage XTR rear derailleur of the proper year.
>> >>>
>> >>> The Basso is going to be built the way I want it built. wide ratio rear
>> >>> cogset (38 large ring so that I can climb a lot in the large ring if necessary (Dublin
>> >>> Grade) and the 11 tooth will only be used in the 34. There won't be a
>> >>> load of extra gears that you jump over and never use. In this regard I
>> >>> can see Krygowski's use of a 7 speed freewheel on his bike since he rides
>> >>> almost entirely on the flats and he doesn't much change gears. But of
>> >>> course the freewheel doesn't have bearings out near the edge of the axle
>> >>> and your freewheel bike can and does break axles. And there the heck do
>> >>> you get freewheels anymore.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Do seems like making life harder for your self, of my 3 bikes two are 10
>> >> speed but more modern systems but being mid end chains cassettes are easy
>> >> to come by, and cheap and at least with a double has a decent range.
>> >>
>> >> My Gravel bike runs Tiagra and the MTB due to its age has had some
>> >> upgrades, but broadly Deore level, brakes are slightly higher spec SLX, and
>> >> rear mech is a newer Deore so has clutch and so on.
>> >>
>> >> Roger Merriman
>> >
>> > :-) Years ago I converted a "mountain bike" to a "flat land" bike -
>> > replaced the front suspension forks, added drop handle bars, etc. I
>> > went down to my friendly bicycle shop and told them, "I want a shift
>> > system for this bike I'm building". They sold me (this was back in the
>> > 9 speed days) a Shimano system. I installed it and it's still working.
>> >
>> > While admittedly one example isn't proof for all systems but it does
>> > indicate, I believe, that if you install the right parts the system
>> > Will work (:-)
>> That's true for _you_, Mr Slocumb.
>>
>> Others, in some cases, have an aversion to reading
>> directions often combined with poor intuition and misplaced
>> confidence.
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>Aren't you assuming that:
>1. Somehow without any knowledge that Slocomb install the parts himself and

What is it about my statement "I installed it and it's still working."
is it that you don't understand?
>2. That he rides his bike enough to wear anything out if the shop even did an average job and

Well, I rode it for a number of years on my normal morning ride, about
20 km every morning at daybreak except for Saturday and Sunday.
Saturday was "shopping day" and Sunday was my "long ride day" - 100 km
or sometimes a bit more on the "road" bike.

>3. That Slocomb could even TELL if his shifting was working correctly and

Buy gorry Tommy that is a real puzzle, isn't it. But I always assumed
that when you pushed the lever and the chain moved over to the next
sprocket in the front or back that it was shifting. Was I wrong?

>4. That this was done so long ago that it was an 8 or 9 speed system that normally is extremely long lived?

As I told you it was a 9 speed system, with dual chain rings, you know
the big ones in the front?
Don't tell me that you are throwing money away on some sort of junk
that fails all the time?

Ah well, the old saying is that "a fool and his money are soon
parted".
Which, by the way, seems to have its origin in Proverbs 21:20 of the
King James version of the Christian Bible.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 25 Nov 2023 00:39:04 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Nov 2023 23:12:57 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wolfgang Strobl <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>>> Am Fri, 24 Nov 2023 00:19:37 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
>>>> <roger@sarlet.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Wolfgang Strobl <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>>>>> Am Thu, 23 Nov 2023 09:41:01 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
>>>>>> <roger@sarlet.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Plus 9 speed was cross compatible MTB/road I believe which isn?t the case
>>>>>>> in most cases with more modern systems though I believe SRAM mullet ie MTB
>>>>>>> cassette with road shifters is a thing with modern 12s systems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's exactly what I used when building two bikes earlier this year,
>>>>>> one for my wife, one for me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pluspora/plainpostings/20230619t2154-2023_06_19_effelsberg_again.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's probably obvious which is which. :-)
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2 x SRAM Force eTap AXS HRD,
>>>>>> 1 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS Rival DUB Wide AXS Quarq Powermeter for her,
>>>>>> 1 x SRAM Force 1 DUB DM 1x12-speed Carbon Crankset for me
>>>>>> (using Garmin XC 200 from older bike).
>>>>>> 2 x SRAM X-Sync Road Direct Mount Chainring for Red / Force (40 teeth)
>>>>>> 2 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS 12-Speed Rear Derailleur (10-52)
>>>>>>
>>>>> Some fairly low gearing there, very close to my MTB in spread and gearing
>>>>> which is arguably as it?s a 1st gen 29er slightly overgeared admittedly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Arguably more folks would do better with that gear range ie low than high!
>>>>
>>>> Most at our age sureley would do better that way. On the other hand, I
>>>> enjoy being able to still pedal at high riding speed. It's not about
>>>> getting faster, but about not losing speed and about continuously using
>>>> my muscles. But when in doubt, I prefer the climbing ability.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ie it?s got more complicated and less compatible as time has gone on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is. But it was the only product which supported this combination from
>>>>>> a single source. So in this specific case, SRAM components where more
>>>>>> compatible between road and MTB gear than those from Shimano.
>>>>>>
>>>>> You can with GRX/Tiagra use Deore ie MTB cassettes though only up to 34t so
>>>>> hardly a proper Mullet it?s what I?m toying with as an idea ie go from 32
>>>>> to 34 cassette.
>>>>
>>> Correction I have a 34t cassette but could with a new mech fit a 36t
>>> cassette which I?m mulling over as I?ve done over 5k (miles) in wet weather
>>> so needs doing soon!
>>
>> My Deore Deraileur says it's only good to a 34t, but mine handles a
>> 36t without any issues beyond a little noise on the upshift.
>
>I’m assuming that’s 9 speed? As mine on the MTB is rated for 36t at least?
>I’d probably play it safe noting the cost of a 10s GRX derailleur isn’t
>huge and it’s likely to be used under high loads ie shifting up steep
>terrain.

Yes, it's a 9 Speed.

>One of my fellow Gravel riders is waiting to get a new mech as it’s failed,
>specially the electronics and it’s a fairly pricey thing! I think he said
>£300? Where as the rear mech I’m eyeing up is £30/40.

I think mine was around $50/60. I have no inclination to go to
electronic shifting

>>
>>>> My old somewhat custom configured road/race bike from 2010, equipped
>>>> with Ultegra ST-6703 is 3 x 10, 52/39/30 in front, originally 12-25. At
>>>> the same time, my wife got a Scott Contessa, same configuration, but
>>>> 105, from a different shop.
>>>>
>>>> Years later, after somewhat recovering and becoming able to ride longer
>>>> and steeper routes again, I switched to 11-28 on both bikes and finally
>>>> to 12-30 on my bike in early 2022. Originally I bought the cassette for
>>>> my wife's bike, but unfortunately, I didn't get it noise free there,
>>>> most probably due to a shorter wheelbase combined with a somewhat
>>>> inferior deraillieur.
>>>>
>>>> 30/30, or 1:1, was the lowest possible ratio on my bike. Now we both
>>>> have 40/52, with the possibility of easily going even lower with a
>>>> linear configuration by simply swapping the chainring.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I?d assume that would be enough, similar gearing got me slowly up various
>>> steep road climbs in the first year after my brain injury ie where I was
>>> still fairly unwell and weak. So being able to just plod up stuff was
>>> hugely important!
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>>
>>
>Roger Merriman
>

On 11/24/2023 6:24 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, November 24, 2023 at 3:09:08 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Last Tuesday I stopped to take a picture of that sign that Liebermann
>>> claimed couldn't possibly be true - the open field that was once filled
>>> with water and is now totally filled in with what looks like land but the
>>> sign says - "Keep Out, Deep Mud".

Ah! So you'll post a link to your photo?

>>> My low gear is 34-34 on that bike and the cranks went from TDC to BDC too
>>> rapidly for me to clip in so I had to walk to the top of that rather mild
>>> hill. So, while there are advantages or even necessities for large gears
>>> (especially on full suspension bikes) there are disadvantages as well.
>>> Particularly on light bikes.
>>>
>> Sorry that makes no sense, if the gearing was too low just shift it up? And
>> yes some folks do struggle with low speed balance on the bike, I don’t and
>> even with a damaged balance systems I can track stand or roll slowly even
>> on steep grades, ie 20/30% and yes low gears absolutely do make steeper
>> hills easier and less tiring as your having to muscle than spin up
>> sections.
>>
>> It maybe that you like higher gears and prefer to grind.
>>
> Roger, I'm beginning to wonder if you actually ride? How do you shift into a higher gear if you can't clip in?

Seriously??

You simply raise the rear wheel, move your right shift lever and give
the cranks a turn. Easy!

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 11/24/2023 6:24 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Friday, November 24, 2023 at 3:09:08 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Last Tuesday I stopped to take a picture of that sign that Liebermann
>>>> claimed couldn't possibly be true - the open field that was once filled
>>>> with water and is now totally filled in with what looks like land but the
>>>> sign says - "Keep Out, Deep Mud".
>
> Ah! So you'll post a link to your photo?
>
>>>> My low gear is 34-34 on that bike and the cranks went from TDC to BDC too
>>>> rapidly for me to clip in so I had to walk to the top of that rather mild
>>>> hill. So, while there are advantages or even necessities for large gears
>>>> (especially on full suspension bikes) there are disadvantages as well.
>>>> Particularly on light bikes.
>>>>
>>> Sorry that makes no sense, if the gearing was too low just shift it up? And
>>> yes some folks do struggle with low speed balance on the bike, I don’t and
>>> even with a damaged balance systems I can track stand or roll slowly even
>>> on steep grades, ie 20/30% and yes low gears absolutely do make steeper
>>> hills easier and less tiring as your having to muscle than spin up
>>> sections.
>>>
>>> It maybe that you like higher gears and prefer to grind.
>>>
>> Roger, I'm beginning to wonder if you actually ride? How do you shift
>> into a higher gear if you can't clip in?
>
> Seriously??
>
> You simply raise the rear wheel, move your right shift lever and give
> the cranks a turn. Easy!
>

I see fast commuters do that frequently particularly if caught up with the
speed on the Embankment and are have misjudged the gear to stop in so shift
pedal one legged. All smooth and easy.

Roger Merriman

On Sat, 25 Nov 2023 15:29:00 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>So it really only makes sense if you were there.
>(...)
>It appeared to be an open field but there were signs posted that said "Keep Out, Danger Deep Mud but the spillway for the creek had nothing going over it so I assume that the latest rain is tunneling under the field and forming loose mud.

The next best thing to being there is a photograph and a GPS lat-long
position.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, November 24, 2023 at 3:09:08 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, November 23, 2023 at 4:19:41 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Wolfgang Strobl <ne...@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>>>> Am Thu, 23 Nov 2023 09:41:01 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
>>>>> <ro...@sarlet.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Plus 9 speed was cross compatible MTB/road I believe which isn’t the case
>>>>>> in most cases with more modern systems though I believe SRAM mullet ie MTB
>>>>>> cassette with road shifters is a thing with modern 12s systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's exactly what I used when building two bikes earlier this year,
>>>>> one for my wife, one for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pluspora/plainpostings/20230619t2154-2023_06_19_effelsberg_again.html>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's probably obvious which is which. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 x SRAM Force eTap AXS HRD,
>>>>> 1 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS Rival DUB Wide AXS Quarq Powermeter for her,
>>>>> 1 x SRAM Force 1 DUB DM 1x12-speed Carbon Crankset for me
>>>>> (using Garmin XC 200 from older bike).
>>>>> 2 x SRAM X-Sync Road Direct Mount Chainring for Red / Force (40 teeth)
>>>>> 2 x SRAM GX Eagle AXS 12-Speed Rear Derailleur (10-52)
>>>>>
>>>> Some fairly low gearing there, very close to my MTB in spread and gearing
>>>> which is arguably as it’s a 1st gen 29er slightly overgeared admittedly.
>>>>
>>>> Arguably more folks would do better with that gear range ie low than high!
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ie it’s got more complicated and less compatible as time has gone on.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is. But it was the only product which supported this combination from
>>>>> a single source. So in this specific case, SRAM components where more
>>>>> compatible between road and MTB gear than those from Shimano.
>>>>>
>>>> You can with GRX/Tiagra use Deore ie MTB cassettes though only up to 34t so
>>>> hardly a proper Mullet it’s what I’m toying with as an idea ie go from 32
>>>> to 34 cassette.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>> Last Tuesday I stopped to take a picture of that sign that Liebermann
>>> claimed couldn't possibly be true - the open field that was once filled
>>> with water and is now totally filled in with what looks like land but the
>>> sign says - "Keep Out, Deep Mud".
>>>
>>> My low gear is 34-34 on that bike and the cranks went from TDC to BDC too
>>> rapidly for me to clip in so I had to walk to the top of that rather mild
>>> hill. So, while there are advantages or even necessities for large gears
>>> (especially on full suspension bikes) there are disadvantages as well.
>>> Particularly on light bikes.
>>>
>> Sorry that makes no sense, if the gearing was too low just shift it up? And
>> yes some folks do struggle with low speed balance on the bike, I don’t and
>> even with a damaged balance systems I can track stand or roll slowly even
>> on steep grades, ie 20/30% and yes low gears absolutely do make steeper
>> hills easier and less tiring as your having to muscle than spin up
>> sections.
>>
>> It maybe that you like higher gears and prefer to grind.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> I guess I misunderstood you. Yes, you could just get off of the bike,
> shift gears, and then start in the larger gear. But doing this on a
> barely two lane wide section of road with heavy traffic on it so that the
> traffic coming down the hill is partially in the opposite direction and
> the traffic going up is in such a close reach that they are swerving back
> and forth to miss each other, getting off of the bike for anything other
> than getting on the sidewalk is not very palatable. I even found a small
> side dirt road and if I had any sense I would have ridden down that
> slightly changed the gear and then ridden back. But then I would have had
> to jump a curb at right angles to heavy traffic and I have just gone
> balls to the walls down from the top of Cull Canyon which included 200
> feet of climbing right at the bottom so I would have had trouble clipping
> in in a much higher gear.
>
You could and folks often do at traffic lights or even hills I spin the
wheel one footed.

But that wasn’t your originally point? Being that their is disadvantages to
lower gearing, practically if light?

Which really doesn’t tally.

> So it really only makes sense if you were there. That climb is NOT very
> difficult but I was so tired that after I rode about a half mile down the
> road intending to turn left between traffic I completely missed the turn,
> had to make a U-turn and retraced my steps to it. When you're 79 and
> taking antiseizure medication and an anti-viral drug for the Shingles
> you'll understand what happens to you when you just did 6 miles at a 20
> mph average since it is mostly downhill. I would not have normally turned
> up that hill but I wanted to look at the head of the dam.
>
> It appeared to be an open field but there were signs posted that said
> "Keep Out, Danger Deep Mud but the spillway for the creek had nothing
> going over it so I assume that the latest rain is tunneling under the
> field and forming loose mud.
>
Roger Merriman