I built a new gravel bike for my Christmas present to me last Christmas.

Campagnolo 11 speed Centaur controls, derailleurs, cassette, and chain.
The cranks are <cough> Shimano GRX <cough>, only because Campagnolo
doesn't appear to make a suitable 2x11 crank and BB. The frame takes a
standard width BB, but the chain line is a few millimeters wider than a
road frame, for fat tyre clearance.

Anyhow, I suppose after the first month of riding passed with inevitable
tweaks and fine tuning, I have on occasion cleaned the cassette,
derailleurs and chain rings, and performed my chain maintenance by
immersion in my custom hot wax and oil mix.

Last week I noticed a slight click, click from the chain on the third
largest sprocket and large chain ring, that went quiet if I pushed the
rear derailleur lever slightly to pull the cable.

So after nearly 11 months of riding, and 7000 km of mixed bitumen and
gravel roads, I made a 1/2 turn adjustment of the rear derailleur cable
screw to eliminate the click, click.

I also measured the chain with a 12 inch ruler, and could not see that
the chain had "stretched" noticeably at all. So probably no more than
half a millimeter, I would say.

I thought about making a measuring stick with a nail in a piece of
timber just slightly smaller diameter than a chain pin, so I can hang
the chain off the nail and measure, say, 24 inches of chain with ease.
The standard 1/16th inch at 12 inches for 0.5% "stretch" becomes 1/8th
inch, and that's a lot easier to see and judge.

Taking the chain off is part of normal operations for me, using the hot
wax/oil bath. I always use a quick link. So this kind of measurement
would be easy and most accurate.

--
JS

On Thursday, November 23, 2023 at 9:40:10 PM UTC-5, James wrote:
> I built a new gravel bike for my Christmas present to me last Christmas.
>
> Campagnolo 11 speed Centaur controls, derailleurs, cassette, and chain.
> The cranks are <cough> Shimano GRX <cough>, only because Campagnolo
> doesn't appear to make a suitable 2x11 crank and BB. The frame takes a
> standard width BB, but the chain line is a few millimeters wider than a
> road frame, for fat tyre clearance.
>
> Anyhow, I suppose after the first month of riding passed with inevitable
> tweaks and fine tuning, I have on occasion cleaned the cassette,
> derailleurs and chain rings, and performed my chain maintenance by
> immersion in my custom hot wax and oil mix.
>
> Last week I noticed a slight click, click from the chain on the third
> largest sprocket and large chain ring, that went quiet if I pushed the
> rear derailleur lever slightly to pull the cable.
>
> So after nearly 11 months of riding, and 7000 km of mixed bitumen and
> gravel roads, I made a 1/2 turn adjustment of the rear derailleur cable
> screw to eliminate the click, click.
>
> I also measured the chain with a 12 inch ruler, and could not see that
> the chain had "stretched" noticeably at all. So probably no more than
> half a millimeter, I would say.
>
> I thought about making a measuring stick with a nail in a piece of
> timber just slightly smaller diameter than a chain pin, so I can hang
> the chain off the nail and measure, say, 24 inches of chain with ease.
> The standard 1/16th inch at 12 inches for 0.5% "stretch" becomes 1/8th
> inch, and that's a lot easier to see and judge.
>
> Taking the chain off is part of normal operations for me, using the hot
> wax/oil bath. I always use a quick link. So this kind of measurement
> would be easy and most accurate.

Here's an ancient article on real world testing of chain lubes. This guy hung
his chains as you describe, and used a micrometer to measure stretch.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/8101576421/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/8101591380/in/dateposted-public/

- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, November 24, 2023 at 3:59:13 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Thursday, November 23, 2023 at 9:40:10 PM UTC-5, James wrote:
> > I built a new gravel bike for my Christmas present to me last Christmas..
> >
> > Campagnolo 11 speed Centaur controls, derailleurs, cassette, and chain.
> > The cranks are <cough> Shimano GRX <cough>, only because Campagnolo
> > doesn't appear to make a suitable 2x11 crank and BB. The frame takes a
> > standard width BB, but the chain line is a few millimeters wider than a
> > road frame, for fat tyre clearance.
> >
> > Anyhow, I suppose after the first month of riding passed with inevitable
> > tweaks and fine tuning, I have on occasion cleaned the cassette,
> > derailleurs and chain rings, and performed my chain maintenance by
> > immersion in my custom hot wax and oil mix.
> >
> > Last week I noticed a slight click, click from the chain on the third
> > largest sprocket and large chain ring, that went quiet if I pushed the
> > rear derailleur lever slightly to pull the cable.
> >
> > So after nearly 11 months of riding, and 7000 km of mixed bitumen and
> > gravel roads, I made a 1/2 turn adjustment of the rear derailleur cable
> > screw to eliminate the click, click.
> >
> > I also measured the chain with a 12 inch ruler, and could not see that
> > the chain had "stretched" noticeably at all. So probably no more than
> > half a millimeter, I would say.
> >
> > I thought about making a measuring stick with a nail in a piece of
> > timber just slightly smaller diameter than a chain pin, so I can hang
> > the chain off the nail and measure, say, 24 inches of chain with ease.
> > The standard 1/16th inch at 12 inches for 0.5% "stretch" becomes 1/8th
> > inch, and that's a lot easier to see and judge.
> >
> > Taking the chain off is part of normal operations for me, using the hot
> > wax/oil bath. I always use a quick link. So this kind of measurement
> > would be easy and most accurate.
> Here's an ancient article on real world testing of chain lubes. This guy hung
> his chains as you describe, and used a micrometer to measure stretch.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/8101576421/in/dateposted-public/
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/8101591380/in/dateposted-public/
>
> - Frank Krygowski

On my nail a new chain is hanging. The nail is long enough to hang the used chain on the same nail and I just compare the length of the used chain with the new chain. I just can eyeball the elongation. It doesn’t have to be in the 0.1 mm accuracy.

Lou

On Fri, 24 Nov 2023 12:49:11 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
<lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, November 24, 2023 at 3:59:13?PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On Thursday, November 23, 2023 at 9:40:10?PM UTC-5, James wrote:
>> > I built a new gravel bike for my Christmas present to me last Christmas.
>> >
>> > Campagnolo 11 speed Centaur controls, derailleurs, cassette, and chain.
>> > The cranks are <cough> Shimano GRX <cough>, only because Campagnolo
>> > doesn't appear to make a suitable 2x11 crank and BB. The frame takes a
>> > standard width BB, but the chain line is a few millimeters wider than a
>> > road frame, for fat tyre clearance.
>> >
>> > Anyhow, I suppose after the first month of riding passed with inevitable
>> > tweaks and fine tuning, I have on occasion cleaned the cassette,
>> > derailleurs and chain rings, and performed my chain maintenance by
>> > immersion in my custom hot wax and oil mix.
>> >
>> > Last week I noticed a slight click, click from the chain on the third
>> > largest sprocket and large chain ring, that went quiet if I pushed the
>> > rear derailleur lever slightly to pull the cable.
>> >
>> > So after nearly 11 months of riding, and 7000 km of mixed bitumen and
>> > gravel roads, I made a 1/2 turn adjustment of the rear derailleur cable
>> > screw to eliminate the click, click.
>> >
>> > I also measured the chain with a 12 inch ruler, and could not see that
>> > the chain had "stretched" noticeably at all. So probably no more than
>> > half a millimeter, I would say.
>> >
>> > I thought about making a measuring stick with a nail in a piece of
>> > timber just slightly smaller diameter than a chain pin, so I can hang
>> > the chain off the nail and measure, say, 24 inches of chain with ease.
>> > The standard 1/16th inch at 12 inches for 0.5% "stretch" becomes 1/8th
>> > inch, and that's a lot easier to see and judge.
>> >
>> > Taking the chain off is part of normal operations for me, using the hot
>> > wax/oil bath. I always use a quick link. So this kind of measurement
>> > would be easy and most accurate.
>> Here's an ancient article on real world testing of chain lubes. This guy hung
>> his chains as you describe, and used a micrometer to measure stretch.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/8101576421/in/dateposted-public/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/8101591380/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
>On my nail a new chain is hanging. The nail is long enough to hang the used chain on the same nail and I just compare the length of the used chain with the new chain. I just can eyeball the elongation. It doesn’t have to be in the 0.1 mm accuracy.
>
>Lou

The Catrike's chain is just short of 13 feet long. The only reasonable
way to measure it is with my Park Tool chain measuring tool. I check
pretty often so my random selection of where on the chain to measure
is varied. My current chain has about 3200 miles and is nowhere near
ready for replacement. My longer chain gets less wear per mile than
shorter ones. Not true of my spockets.

On Friday, November 24, 2023 at 3:49:14 PM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Friday, November 24, 2023 at 3:59:13 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 23, 2023 at 9:40:10 PM UTC-5, James wrote:
> > > I built a new gravel bike for my Christmas present to me last Christmas.
> > >
> > > Campagnolo 11 speed Centaur controls, derailleurs, cassette, and chain.
> > > The cranks are <cough> Shimano GRX <cough>, only because Campagnolo
> > > doesn't appear to make a suitable 2x11 crank and BB. The frame takes a
> > > standard width BB, but the chain line is a few millimeters wider than a
> > > road frame, for fat tyre clearance.
> > >
> > > Anyhow, I suppose after the first month of riding passed with inevitable
> > > tweaks and fine tuning, I have on occasion cleaned the cassette,
> > > derailleurs and chain rings, and performed my chain maintenance by
> > > immersion in my custom hot wax and oil mix.
> > >
> > > Last week I noticed a slight click, click from the chain on the third
> > > largest sprocket and large chain ring, that went quiet if I pushed the
> > > rear derailleur lever slightly to pull the cable.
> > >
> > > So after nearly 11 months of riding, and 7000 km of mixed bitumen and
> > > gravel roads, I made a 1/2 turn adjustment of the rear derailleur cable
> > > screw to eliminate the click, click.
> > >
> > > I also measured the chain with a 12 inch ruler, and could not see that
> > > the chain had "stretched" noticeably at all. So probably no more than
> > > half a millimeter, I would say.
> > >
> > > I thought about making a measuring stick with a nail in a piece of
> > > timber just slightly smaller diameter than a chain pin, so I can hang
> > > the chain off the nail and measure, say, 24 inches of chain with ease..
> > > The standard 1/16th inch at 12 inches for 0.5% "stretch" becomes 1/8th
> > > inch, and that's a lot easier to see and judge.
> > >
> > > Taking the chain off is part of normal operations for me, using the hot
> > > wax/oil bath. I always use a quick link. So this kind of measurement
> > > would be easy and most accurate.
> > Here's an ancient article on real world testing of chain lubes. This guy hung
> > his chains as you describe, and used a micrometer to measure stretch.
> >
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/8101576421/in/dateposted-public/
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/8101591380/in/dateposted-public/
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
> On my nail a new chain is hanging. The nail is long enough to hang the used chain on the same nail and I just compare the length of the used chain with the new chain. I just can eyeball the elongation. It doesn’t have to be in the 0.1 mm accuracy.

The guy who wrote that article was not doing a simple pass-fail test to see if his chain needed
replaced. He was trying to evaluate different lubricants, with different number of miles ridden
on each chain or lubricant. I think for that he did need accuracy.

- Frank Krygowski

> > On my nail a new chain is hanging. The nail is long enough to hang the used chain on the same nail and I just compare the length of the used chain with the new chain. I just can eyeball the elongation. It doesn’t have to be in the 0.1 mm accuracy.
> The guy who wrote that article was not doing a simple pass-fail test to see if his chain needed
> replaced. He was trying to evaluate different lubricants, with different number of miles ridden
> on each chain or lubricant. I think for that he did need accuracy.

He needed accuracy because of his insistence on using silly way of measuring - by using an extremely accurate tool - which by its nature is so small it can only measure a few links.
He also mentioned measuring one place multiple times, but not measuring in multiple places, and also mentioned standard deviation, as if to disclaim the need. You have to, because chain stretch is not uniform, said something I read way back in the early days. Not saying it's true, just sayin. Also, that author offered no more justification of that belief than does this one of his.

He shoulda measured the entire chains, marked their far hole using a carefully selected scribe and method, and used the micrometer to measure the distance between scribed lines/points

> Anyhow, I suppose after the first month of riding passed with inevitable
> tweaks and fine tuning, I have on occasion cleaned the cassette,
> derailleurs and chain rings, and performed my chain maintenance by
> immersion in my custom hot wax and oil mix.

yabbut how do you clean it?

> I also measured the chain with a 12 inch ruler, and could not see that
> the chain had "stretched" noticeably at all. So probably no more than
> half a millimeter, I would say.
Uh... a millimeter being 1/25th of an inch... so half a millimeter being 1/12.5th ... so you think/claim you observed 3/4 of the way to the service limit? After claiming that you could not see any stretch at all? Uh... .... ... get a magnifying glass?

> Taking the chain off is part of normal operations for me, using the hot
> wax/oil bath. I always use a quick link. So this kind of measurement
> would be easy and most accurate.

Why do you want the wax in the measurement? And the bitumen? Clean it completely then measure w/o lube, it please, and tell us what you find
I think easy and most accurate are at odds here
Once it is Real(tm) clean, lay it alongside a ruler, pull it apart to its max. length, then push the links together to see it's minimum length, then carefully align the ruler and pull to maximum length again... and then tell us you don't think it's stretched. I predict between 2 and 3 16ths.